Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

dino001

driver100 said:

dino001 said:

First decent comprehensive article about FIU Bridge collapse in mainstream media. Not completely free of errors, but informative and written in language that is understandable to a general public, but precise enough. One error is the authors correctly state that many (most) collapses happen during construction and they correctly say why (contractors not accounting correctly for temporary conditions), then give an incorrect example - Kansas City Hyatt gallery, which collapsed after completion, when the buidling was in service.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/west-miami-dade/article207358659.html

Thanks dino, interesting reading. They mention the collapse of a walkway at a Hyatt hotel, killing 114 people. Seems that changes made at the last minute to correct a problem can contribute to such an accident. Nothing for sure but lots of very good theories.

Those big and tragic collapses are usually watershed moments for the industry:

1. Kansas City Hyatt revealed serious gaps in shop drawing review process (that's when the fabricator sends detailed drawings based on designer's general drawings). As you mentioned, changes were made to make the assembly easier, but they changed the scheme of the structure. The review did not catch it, because the senior engineer ceded his work to a junior engineer without proper backchecking and supervision. He lost his license. The process was overhauled and today it's well structured with well defined responsibilities.
2. Sunshine Skyway collapse was a tragic apex in a series of vessel collisions with bridges. Vessel collision was not a design consideration back then, as engineers did not fully understand probability of such impacts and collapses (they thought of the risk as remote and negligible, but had no real data to back that feeling up). A new rational system, balancing this probability with cost considerations was introduced a few years later. Needed a few tweaks, but I think it's working now. A tragic collapse may still happen, but it would generally require conditions (vessel weight, speed, impact angle, etc.) that are estimated to occur 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10000 years (depending on the structure importance) to overcome the strength of suports.
3. I-35 collapse in Minneapolis revealed that too many engineers did not fully understand force flow in so-called gusset plates (large flat plates connecting truss-type bridge elements). Original design vulnerability of the element, corrosion of the plate (weakening) and partial removal of stiffness (deck), all created this tragic event. New guidelines stress better analysis of those elements to prevent such errors in the future.
4. Multiple span collapses during Katrina hurricane in New Orleans and Biloxi revealed engineer's lack of understanding of wave action and vulnerability to it, just like Sunshine Skyway did to vessel collisions. New recommendations have already been issued, but I think they need some more calibration and will still evolve in similar fashion, vessel collision had been. We are currently in "overly conservative" stage, when the probability of such events does not seem to be properly calibrated just yet and the resulting forces are a bit too high. Similar process happened to vessel collision, when number of bridges were designed in the aftermath of the Skyway collapse to address such extreme scenarios, that made them extremely expensive (Howard Frankland Bridge in Tampa, for example). It will get more rational over time.

I have a feeling there will be some new recommendations for design and construction practice based on the FIU collapse, too. All I can say is that I see several similarities between I-35 collapse mechanism and FIU. We may end up with a series of similar recommendation types, as those after I-35, now for concrete bridges (especially post-tensioned) rather than steel bridges.

driver100

And I thought bridges and structures of that nature were almost fail safe........in that we know we need a bridge, and the science should be pretty strong about what has to be done to keep it from collapsing. I also thought they would be built to withstand much more than anticipated.

Seems like there is a no man's land of things that can go wrong...if there is one miscalculation. I don't feel so good about driving across large bridges anymore. And, that isn't even taking into account old infrastructure, I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

cdnpinhead

Mr_Shiftright said:

The 2019 Forester not only loses the turbo, but also the manual transmission.

Crap -- my wife's Forester has been pleasant enough that I've had in the back of my mind getting one of my own with a manual transmission. Oh well. . .

Regarding speed limits. Not that anyone gives a s***, but I run with traffic plus a few miles per hour most of the time. That said, where I live, out in the sometimes wide-open West, my rule is that if you can't see any other traffic ahead or behind (in Nevada, that covers a lot of territory), all bets are off. Setting a cruise control at 90 or 110 isn't something that many people have the opportunity to do. I have, and it was great. This goes a ways toward explaining why I think run-flat tires are no substitute for a spare. The towns out there may be able to patch a tire, but that's about it.

Michaell

driver100 said:

And I thought bridges and structures of that nature were almost fail safe........in that we know we need a bridge, and the science should be pretty strong about what has to be done to keep it from collapsing. I also thought they would be built to withstand much more than anticipated.

Seems like there is a no man's land of things that can go wrong...if there is one miscalculation. I don't feel so good about driving across large bridges anymore. And, that isn't even taking into account old infrastructure, I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

Funny, because there are bridges and aqueducts built in the Roman times that are still standing ... guess progress isn't all it's cracked up to be.

cdnpinhead

Romans didn't have to explain why they used too much material and/or manpower.

ab348

We have two large suspension bridges across our harbor - one built in the mid-'50s and the other opened around 1970. In the early 1980s both had the bases of their suspension towers surrounded with riprap (large rocks) to protect them from runaway ships. Bridges have gotten very expensive it seems - we could use a third one here but ballpark estimates are in the $1.5 to $2 billion range.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane. The attempt to paint it was "dangerous" or likely to fall down tomorrow is mostly oriented toward prodding replacement. HOWEVER, they don't mean replacing the current two level bridge. They want to build a new bridge parallel to the existing one and remake the current one to carry northbound traffic only. It's Kentucky's bridge. Talk of tolls has been a prime source of funding adding on the replacement bridge and reworking the current bridge to carry northbound only.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

Michaell

cdnpinhead said:

Romans didn't have to explain why they used too much material and/or manpower.

Yeah, conquer another land, find some more free labor.

imidazol97

fintail said:

Pretty sure his cars (some with panel gaps that would make a 90s Saturn blush) are made in California. That might be somewhere else to the good folks in flyover land, but for the time being anyway, it is still the same country.

imidazol97 said:

Has anyone referred to these Musk companies and Tesla as government motors because of the huge amounts of tax money has gone to subsidize his cars made somewhere else? Add on the tax rebate for buying an electric vehicle...

I mixed up the Fiskar Karma with the Tesla electric support, didn't I? It's the Fiskar made in Norway.

driver100

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

And I thought bridges and structures of that nature were almost fail safe........in that we know we need a bridge, and the science should be pretty strong about what has to be done to keep it from collapsing. I also thought they would be built to withstand much more than anticipated.

Seems like there is a no man's land of things that can go wrong...if there is one miscalculation. I don't feel so good about driving across large bridges anymore. And, that isn't even taking into account old infrastructure, I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

Funny, because there are bridges and aqueducts built in the Roman times that are still standing ... guess progress isn't all it's cracked up to be.

That thought went through my mind too (great minds think alike) and forgot to add it. The pyramids are still standing and the alignment was done so perfectly......without computers etc.

dino001

driver100 said:

And I thought bridges and structures of that nature were almost fail safe........in that we know we need a bridge, and the science should be pretty strong about what has to be done to keep it from collapsing. I also thought they would be built to withstand much more than anticipated.

Seems like there is a no man's land of things that can go wrong...if there is one miscalculation. I don't feel so good about driving across large bridges anymore. And, that isn't even taking into account old infrastructure, I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

How do you define fail safe? Meteorite impact? Volcano eruption? Space shuttle falling down? Giant explosion of a gas tank? Nuclear blast? Truth to be told, bridges ARE practically safest types of structures exposed to general public. Just compare them anything else after passage of a hurricane. My intention is not to scare you off - if anything it was to make you feel better, which I failed miserably. I guess I just said "too much", which is often the case. You don't want to know how sausage is made, so I guess you really don't want to know how bridge or structure design is done. But let me try to rectify it and attempt to put you mind at ease one more time:

1. People make mistakes. That's why procedures are in place for checking. Bridge design, fabrication and construction have one of the strongest procedures in place to prevent those mistakes to slip through, or when they do - to compound with other mistakes. Yes, there are safer industries with even more stringer procedures at place, as they should (nuclear, chemical).
2. In bridge design it's a common practice to demand that two qualified individuals essentially agree and certify that the final product (design calculation, drawing) is meeting the standard. The originator does it, checker checks it and places comments/corrections to be made, originator agrees/disagrees with the comments/corrections, all comments have to be resolved either between the two, or a third arbitrator (in case of an impass), then corrections are made and then somebody needs to certify they were made. That's the ideal process. The adherence may not be perfect, but it is the general idea and strength of corporate culture determines the adherence.
3. Bridges are also designed to a stricter code than most of buildings. Limits are generally lower (more stringent), analysis methods are strongly scrutinized.
4. Also production and fabrication are under much stricter scrutiny than general building. The pool of contractors qualified to do bridge jobs is much smaller.
5. The strength of that system depends on the actual owner. Usually state DOTs provide strongest culture of scrutiny, then large munipals, then smaller, then smaller. However, they often demand to adhere to same procedures as the state entities. The enforcement may not be as strong. Private clients vary, but it's a very small subset.
6. Look at the time elapsed between those huge disasters - 1980, 1981, 2007, 2018. There is a reason why they are such a huge news. THEY ARE EXTREMELY RARE. Much less frequent than plane disasters and plane travel is the safest mode of transportation over 500 miles.
7. Finally - those disasters NEVER have a singular cause. They are ALWAYS a combinations of many crucial contributing events.

I have to finally say - your reaction is a perfect example how IRRATIONAL is human perception of risk. We take no thought into getting into a car and exposing ourselves to drunk, crazy, dumb drivers that our streets are full of. Then we get frightened by some exogenous events that have near zero probability of occurring. Psychologists and Sociologists wrote many PhD thesis to describe why that is.

dino001

ab348 said:

We have two large suspension bridges across our harbor - one built in the mid-'50s and the other opened around 1970. In the early 1980s both had the bases of their suspension towers surrounded with riprap (large rocks) to protect them from runaway ships. Bridges have gotten very expensive it seems - we could use a third one here but ballpark estimates are in the $1.5 to $2 billion range.

This is price of safety. Land acquisition, environmental protection, social considerations, all drive the price up, as inexpensive solutions that used to be available get driven out of town. Then of course everybody wants it free, or at least they want somebody else to pay for it.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

I thought the big problem...besides financing, was there wasn't really a place to put a new bridge. IIRC the real estate on both sides of the river have buildings on them. Maybe a tunnel, but you need extra room for more lanes. They have to keep the current bridge in place while they do something else, but, no room to do something else.

imidazol97

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane. The attempt to paint it was "dangerous" or likely to fall down tomorrow is mostly oriented toward prodding replacement. HOWEVER, they don't mean replacing the current two level bridge. They want to build a new bridge parallel to the existing one and remake the current one to carry northbound traffic only. It's Kentucky's bridge. Talk of tolls has been a prime source of funding adding on the replacement bridge and reworking the current bridge to carry northbound only.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

I thought the big problem...besides financing, was there wasn't really a place to put a new bridge. IIRC the real estate on both sides of the river have buildings on them. Maybe a tunnel, but you need extra room for more lanes. They have to keep the current bridge in place while they do something else, but, no room to do something else.

Imminent domain. There has been planning proposals for the additional bridge lanes. The locals mostly fuss over tolling feeling it should not be toll because so many people from N. Kentucky commute daily to Ohio for their jobs.

In addition others throw in the idea that there was/is some planning for a bypass route that has not been finished from somewhere near I71&I75 split in Kentucky around east side of Cincinnati over a new bridge there to some interestate on east side of Cincinnati.

There are at least two others from Cincy who probably are better able to speak to these things.

But, the bridge is not in danger of collapsing tomorrow. It has been maintained but will need more maintenance in the future.

imidazol97

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

I thought the big problem...besides financing, was there wasn't really a place to put a new bridge. IIRC the real estate on both sides of the river have buildings on them. Maybe a tunnel, but you need extra room for more lanes. They have to keep the current bridge in place while they do something else, but, no room to do something else.

Imminent domain. There has been planning proposals for the additional bridge lanes. The locals mostly fuss over tolling feeling it should not be toll because so many people from N. Kentucky commute daily to Ohio for their jobs.

In addition others throw in the idea that there was/is some planning for a bypass route that has not been finished from somewhere near I71&I75 split in Kentucky around east side of Cincinnati over a new bridge there to some interestate on east side of Cincinnati.

There are at least two others from Cincy who probably are better able to speak to these things.

But, the bridge is not in danger of collapsing tomorrow. It has been maintained but will need more maintenance in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Spence_Bridge

oldfarmer50

cdnpinhead said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

The 2019 Forester not only loses the turbo, but also the manual transmission.

Crap -- my wife's Forester has been pleasant enough that I've had in the back of my mind getting one of my own with a manual transmission. Oh well. . .

Regarding speed limits. Not that anyone gives a s***, but I run with traffic plus a few miles per hour most of the time. That said, where I live, out in the sometimes wide-open West, my rule is that if you can't see any other traffic ahead or behind (in Nevada, that covers a lot of territory), all bets are off. Setting a cruise control at 90 or 110 isn't something that many people have the opportunity to do. I have, and it was great. This goes a ways toward explaining why I think run-flat tires are no substitute for a spare. The towns out there may be able to patch a tire, but that's about it.

I'd only be comfortable cruising at 110 in one of my 3 vehicles but boy that would be fun.

I'd love about 30 miles of empty road to see what the top end is.

dino001

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

I thought the big problem...besides financing, was there wasn't really a place to put a new bridge. IIRC the real estate on both sides of the river have buildings on them. Maybe a tunnel, but you need extra room for more lanes. They have to keep the current bridge in place while they do something else, but, no room to do something else.

Space and traffic maintenance are usually the biggest cost drivers. A new bridge ends up being much more "exotic" than the original. Those exotic solutions can sometimes contribute to the trouble, as they may be using solutions that are not yet full all issues fully understood. Most of the time it just means some maintenance problems, cost overruns, schedule impacts, etc. On a rare occasion it's something more serious.

isellhondas

bwia said:

How do car salesmen make money in an age of vehicles selling at or below invoice?

According to an unnamed salesman, the traditional compensation formula was $200 per week salary plus 20% on the gross profit on each car sold. Gross profit is measured as the difference between MSRP and invoice price. He went on to say in the absence of a so-called gross profit, dealers pay $150 to $200 per car sold, plus a 3% commission on back-end gross profit from F&I, for accessories, warranties, etc. In the end that works out to be around $35k to $50k annual compensation. Not much, but it is a living.

So this begs the question, since the sales associate is basically an order taker, why would they waste their time haggling over pricing? It would appear the better strategy is sales volume and by extension performance incentive bonuses and Spiffs. Don't know what percentage of total sales are internet sales but that cannot be good for the salesman.

Bwia, your "unnamed salesmen" must work in a VERY unique store and I don't think I would be quoting him. You need to do a lot of studying up.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane. The attempt to paint it was "dangerous" or likely to fall down tomorrow is mostly oriented toward prodding replacement. HOWEVER, they don't mean replacing the current two level bridge. They want to build a new bridge parallel to the existing one and remake the current one to carry northbound traffic only. It's Kentucky's bridge. Talk of tolls has been a prime source of funding adding on the replacement bridge and reworking the current bridge to carry northbound only.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

Just let some politician name the bridge after a relative and money will be no problem. Worked like a charm here in NY.

isellhondas

a

cdnpinhead

dino001 said:

We take no thought into getting into a car and exposing ourselves to drunk, crazy, dumb drivers that our streets are full of. Then we get frightened by some exogenous events that have near zero probability of occurring. Psychologists and Sociologists wrote many PhD thesis to describe why that is.

This is most certainly true. Look no farther than the way kids are raised these days with helicopter parents. My generation (when dinosaurs roamed the earth) was sent out to play during the day with the admonition to "be back by dinner." That transmogrified to "be home by the time the street lights come on" for my suburban kids. Either way, there were no scheduled play dates and interminable sports events; kids were expected to be unsupervised for hours and days on end. All this went away when the 24/7 news cycle publicized child snatchings to a fare-thee-well. Never mind that there were single digits per year over all of North America. Everyone headed for the fainting couches and prayer beads, and here we are.

Kids are in much more danger from driving while texting and a multitude of other things, not being snatched up by the boogey-man. Last I heard car accidents was the #1 cause of death for young people.

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane. The attempt to paint it was "dangerous" or likely to fall down tomorrow is mostly oriented toward prodding replacement. HOWEVER, they don't mean replacing the current two level bridge. They want to build a new bridge parallel to the existing one and remake the current one to carry northbound traffic only. It's Kentucky's bridge. Talk of tolls has been a prime source of funding adding on the replacement bridge and reworking the current bridge to carry northbound only.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

Just let some politician name the bridge after a relative and money will be no problem. Worked like a charm here in NY.

So, who exactly is Mr. Tappan Zee?

andres3

xwesx said:

While I generally agree with you, @andres3, I will note that there is a significant difference between performing a passing maneuver at a 15-20 mph delta, and cruising at that delta. For the purposes of cruising, anything greater than a 10 mph average difference ramps up your risk significantly. It takes a lot longer to shed that delta (both in reaction time and braking) than you might think.

Granted, as you mentioned, traffic conditions count for a lot. In my experience, though, people who make a habit of large speed differentials, well, make a habit of it (i.e., they don't necessarily appreciate the risk conditions present).

The powerfully lightweight TTS might be giving me some less than ideal habits. It takes but a second to gain 20 MPH at freeway speeds.

However, these are momentary power bursts to pass someone I deem "suspect & dangerous" not your typical average or better driver, and then of course, not a "cruising" speed. I try to keep my cruising speed within 10 of the flow. So I agree with you on cruising speeds.

oldfarmer50

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane. The attempt to paint it was "dangerous" or likely to fall down tomorrow is mostly oriented toward prodding replacement. HOWEVER, they don't mean replacing the current two level bridge. They want to build a new bridge parallel to the existing one and remake the current one to carry northbound traffic only. It's Kentucky's bridge. Talk of tolls has been a prime source of funding adding on the replacement bridge and reworking the current bridge to carry northbound only.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

Just let some politician name the bridge after a relative and money will be no problem. Worked like a charm here in NY.

So, who exactly is Mr. Tappan Zee?

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I wonder how many older bridges are being neglected - like that bridge on I-75 in Cincinnati, that one looks ready to go at any time. .

My take is there is a lot of political whining about replacing the Brent Spence. Nobody is sure how to pay for it. The whining is mostly that a bridge designed to run three lanes of traffic with room for a pull off is running 4 lanes on each level with narrowed lanes and no breakdown lane. The attempt to paint it was "dangerous" or likely to fall down tomorrow is mostly oriented toward prodding replacement. HOWEVER, they don't mean replacing the current two level bridge. They want to build a new bridge parallel to the existing one and remake the current one to carry northbound traffic only. It's Kentucky's bridge. Talk of tolls has been a prime source of funding adding on the replacement bridge and reworking the current bridge to carry northbound only.

The toll would be a camera toll system as I understand most of the proposals.

Just let some politician name the bridge after a relative and money will be no problem. Worked like a charm here in NY.

So, who exactly is Mr. Tappan Zee?

Old Dutch term for a wide spot in the river.

Ever since you told me to get a blower for the Mustang i've been thinking about it.

Found this if you can spare me a few bucks to roll with 700+ hp.

https://www.americanmuscle.com/roush-r2300-phase-2-supercharger-15gt.html

ab348

Sales of the new model Honda Accord are so soft that Honda is taking 2 weeks worth of production out of Marysville. I wonder if they have ever done that before?

http://www.autoverdict.com/honda/honda-halting-accord-production-for-two-weeks/

andres3

xwesx said:

dino001 said:

I may "camp" on the left lane for a while, if the right lane's pavement is visibly damaged, or is densely occupied by slower trucks. Then I don't really care that the guy behind me wants to go 100 mph. I'll move to the right when it's convenient, not just because the jackass wants to go 30 mph faster than the speed limit (especially if I'm already going say 75-80 mph). But I think you don't belong to the left lane if going 10-20 mph under the limit, if the road is not busy.

Well, as you mentioned, sometimes the right lane is hell to use (I90 through Minnesota springs to mind), so, in those cases, if traffic is light then LLC all you want! I know I do, and I am not being inconsiderate at all unless I'm holding someone up.

Even if I have to slow, I patiently wait (e.g., match speed and don't tailgate) for someone ahead of me until they have had a reasonable opportunity to move right and fail to do so. Then, I'll happily pass them on the right, cut them off, etc., and their well-being doesn't bother me one bit. If they didn't want the stress, then they should have been considerate.

The law in CA is written in such a way that if you have no other traffic then you can cruise the left lane. However, the faster traffic/slower traffic signs apply to even "one" car of traffic. Without 2 cars in the same vicinity, there is no slower or faster. The relative speeds are what matter, not the speed limits, or any other arbitrary speed. The speed limit has about as much relevance to lane laws as the Earth's rotational speed. Try arguing about the Earth's rotational speed and orbital velocity for a Stop or speeding violation in Court!
Speedometers can be inaccurate. No reason to complicate other laws with speed. Just relative "Slower traffic keep right."

andres3

dino001 said:

ab348 said:

We have two large suspension bridges across our harbor - one built in the mid-'50s and the other opened around 1970. In the early 1980s both had the bases of their suspension towers surrounded with riprap (large rocks) to protect them from runaway ships. Bridges have gotten very expensive it seems - we could use a third one here but ballpark estimates are in the $1.5 to $2 billion range.

This is price of safety. Land acquisition, environmental protection, social considerations, all drive the price up, as inexpensive solutions that used to be available get driven out of town. Then of course everybody wants it free, or at least they want somebody else to pay for it.

As we say in the construction business in CA, with our earthquake level 4 designs, were going to make our buildings so safe, no one can afford them!

We had a light pole that weighed less than 50 lbs (including light fixture) harassed by the State (DSA) when a structural engineer didn't satisfy them that 4 anchor bolts (each stronger than the light pole itself) would be enough to hold this lightweight pole up. The anchor bolts had to be redesigned because the templates were wrong, and we didn't want to re-pour the concrete. The bolts drilled and epoxied are insanely strong, and as I mentioned, the weight was negligible. Not sure how this got scrutinized so badly without common-sense. Those anchor bolts were not going anywhere.

dino001

andres3 said:

As we say in the construction business in CA, with our earthquake level 4 designs, were going to make our buildings so safe, no one can afford them!

We had a light pole that weighed less than 50 lbs (including light fixture) harassed by the State (DSA) when a structural engineer didn't satisfy them that 4 anchor bolts (each stronger than the light pole itself) would be enough to hold this lightweight pole up. The anchor bolts had to be redesigned because the templates were wrong, and we didn't want to re-pour the concrete. The bolts drilled and epoxied are insanely strong, and as I mentioned, the weight was negligible. Not sure how this got scrutinized so badly without common-sense. Those anchor bolts were not going anywhere.

You know the funny part? Many lightpoles are supposed to be breakaway- withstand force of design winds, but break on an errant vehicle impact, as occupant’s life is more important than pole’s standing upright.

andres3

cdnpinhead said:

dino001 said:

We take no thought into getting into a car and exposing ourselves to drunk, crazy, dumb drivers that our streets are full of. Then we get frightened by some exogenous events that have near zero probability of occurring. Psychologists and Sociologists wrote many PhD thesis to describe why that is.

This is most certainly true. Look no farther than the way kids are raised these days with helicopter parents. My generation (when dinosaurs roamed the earth) was sent out to play during the day with the admonition to "be back by dinner." That transmogrified to "be home by the time the street lights come on" for my suburban kids. Either way, there were no scheduled play dates and interminable sports events; kids were expected to be unsupervised for hours and days on end. All this went away when the 24/7 news cycle publicized child snatchings to a fare-thee-well. Never mind that there were single digits per year over all of North America. Everyone headed for the fainting couches and prayer beads, and here we are.

Kids are in much more danger from driving while texting and a multitude of other things, not being snatched up by the boogey-man. Last I heard car accidents was the #1 cause of death for young people.

Not to start a gun control debate in here, but we probably ought to do something about our collision and fatality rates on the highway, before we spend too much time on gun control.

Probably need some more enforcement on drunk driving since that is a huge cause of death.

Mr_Shiftright

cdnpinhead said:

Romans didn't have to explain why they used too much material and/or manpower.

Their concrete was actually pretty good. This was before the Mafia built the bridges.

andres3

andres3 said:

http://www.thisisinsider.com/gm-cruise-self-driving-car-ticket-not-yielding-pedestrian-2018-3?utm_source=quora

Based on my knowledge of law enforcement in CA, I'd say 90-95% certainty that GM is right, the ticket is complete and utter BS.

"We don't look at the data, we just rely on Officer observation."

Truer words never before spoken.

dino001 said:

andres3 said:

As we say in the construction business in CA, with our earthquake level 4 designs, were going to make our buildings so safe, no one can afford them!

We had a light pole that weighed less than 50 lbs (including light fixture) harassed by the State (DSA) when a structural engineer didn't satisfy them that 4 anchor bolts (each stronger than the light pole itself) would be enough to hold this lightweight pole up. The anchor bolts had to be redesigned because the templates were wrong, and we didn't want to re-pour the concrete. The bolts drilled and epoxied are insanely strong, and as I mentioned, the weight was negligible. Not sure how this got scrutinized so badly without common-sense. Those anchor bolts were not going anywhere.

You know the funny part? Many lightpoles are supposed to be breakaway- withstand force of design winds, but break on an errant vehicle impact, as occupant’s life is more important than pole’s standing upright.

Interesting.... I'm doing my first traffic signal intersection this Summer. We don't usually venture out much into the Streets.

The light pole I was writing about was actually just a 10' or so pedestrian "plaza" light pole, though it is possible cars (mostly School Maintenance trucks) could drive on the plaza by the HS football stadium. Now the 40' Stadium Light Poles, yes, I could see those being scrutinized!

abacomike

cdnpinhead said:

The 2019 Forester not only loses the turbo, but also the manual transmission.

Crap -- my wife's Forester has been pleasant enough that I've had in the back of my mind getting one of my own with a manual transmission. Oh well. . . Regarding speed limits. Not that anyone gives a s***, but I run with traffic plus a few miles per hour most of the time. That said, where I live, out in the sometimes wide-open West, my rule is that if you can't see any other traffic ahead or behind (in Nevada, that covers a lot of territory), all bets are off. Setting a cruise control at 90 or 110 isn't something that many people have the opportunity to do. I have, and it was great. This goes a ways toward explaining why I think run-flat tires are no substitute for a spare. The towns out there may be able to patch a tire, but that's about it.

When I drove from Los Angeles to Pennsylvania in 1999, there were many stretches of road that were void of traffic.  I remember mostly Utah, Nebraska and Iowa.  Speed limits were 70 mph - but frequently I’d run the Lexus at 85 mph for quite sometime.  That was one of the reasons I was able to make the trip with just 2 stops - just west of Denver and Joliet, Illinois.  I was in a hurry!

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Sales of the new model Honda Accord are so soft that Honda is taking 2 weeks worth of production out of Marysville. I wonder if they have ever done that before?

http://www.autoverdict.com/honda/honda-halting-accord-production-for-two-weeks/

Better than selling them to the rental agencies. I've only seen two Hondas among hundreds of other brands.

xwesx

abacomike said:

When I drove from Los Angeles to Pennsylvania in 1999, there were many stretches of road that were void of traffic.  I remember mostly Utah, Nebraska and Iowa.  Speed limits were 70 mph - but frequently I’d run the Lexus at 85 mph for quite sometime.  That was one of the reasons I was able to make the trip with just 2 stops - just west of Denver and Joliet, Illinois.  I was in a hurry!

While that sounds like a lot of fun, I habitually drive within about five of the limit. At least, I do now in the post-55-everywhere era. In general, I find that the posted limits are fairly reasonable for most areas (at least, to avoid Andres noting the non-sensical zoning in his area, most areas where I am unfamiliar and only passing through once in a great while). Even in places like Montana, where you might see another vehicle on some back road two laner once an hour or so, roads are posted at 70 mph.

I do make a few exceptions, such as the Cassiar Highway (Hwy 37 in British Columbia), where much of it is posted at 80 kph (~45 mph). I tend to run 60-65 mph on that one unless I'm passing through a village.

I admit that I am often tempted to go faster on these seemingly deserted stretches, but most times that I seriously ponder it, I soon see an animal strike or a trooper/mounty and it reminds me that I am not as "alone" as I might like to believe....

On two lane roads, in particular, 65-75 mph strikes a good balance between trip time, fuel economy, and enjoyment.

driver100

Dino, once again, thanks for taking the time to explain. I have been thankful I spent most of my career working with books, most days we would ship over 10000 books, sometimes 30 or 40000. I was glad there was little likelihood of someone dying because of our books. Even truck drivers, school bus drivers, airline pilots,
air control personnel, policemen, doctors and lots of other people have jobs where lives are at stake all the time.

I don't expect a bridge to withstand an extra strong earthquake, a meteorite, a plane crashing into it, but, I thought, with computers and and with the knowledge available today, every possible everyday problem would be tested and retested and the bridge would not fail. However, I will say there are more moving parts to this thing than most people imagine...including tightening and stabilizing, balancing, when it is moved it can get knocked, etc.

I think I am just one of many people who don;t think something like that could happen! I am glad there are people who have knowledge and skills like you do who make these wonderful structures. When we went to Las Vegas I don't care about the gambling, but, I love the shows of course, but, I also marvel at those wonderful buildings.

driver100

Imid, that bridge is so out of date I would gladly pay $5 to go over it each way if they built a new one....if we were still driving that way.

dino001

driver100 said:

I don't expect a bridge to withstand an extra strong earthquake, a meteorite, a plane crashing into it, but, I thought, with computers and and with the knowledge available today, every possible everyday problem would be tested and retested and the bridge would not fail.

And for the most part, it doesn’t. Unfortunately, very rarely, but just like with anything else, things sometimes go wrong. People get complacent, negligent, or arrogant every day. The “system” catches it and stops most of these cases, but nothing is perfect.

fintail

Fisker failed, the tooling changed hands a few times, now owned by a Chinese group, and is now back in production as the Karma Revero.

I believe the Fisker variant was made in Finland, the Revero in California.

imidazol97 said:

I mixed up the Fiskar Karma with the Tesla electric support, didn't I? It's the Fiskar made in Norway.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

Imid, that bridge is so out of date I would gladly pay $5 to go over it each way if they built a new one....if we were still driving that way.

10 bucks once a year ain't bad but that gets old real fast for working stiffs.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Happy Passover guys.

jmonroe

28firefighter

jmonroe said:

Happy Passover guys. jmonroe

Thank you, sir!

tbirdmarco

 Graphic guy you are welcome any time [non-permissible content removed] videos and stuff hopefully help others in here and a big-time into it too as well as you all know partial was good just came home little while ago 

tbirdmarco

 White the Monday and ford stuff the best a lot of cheap stuff was nice and a lot of the tree makes loved Acura and others all very nice 

tbirdmarco

 Only general motors stuff I really liked was the encore and the one that’s meeting China in the Malibu I was disappointed in the GMC terrain interior quality big-time think that’s off the list now for my mom to plasticky 

tbirdmarco

 The trucks didn’t have any interior to write home about at least in my opinion in the bigger SU movies to wasn’t crazy thrilled about on the traverse had an OK interior what the Acadia not so much ha ha Ha you got to step it up was disappointed with expecting more out of general motors Cadillac had nice interiors though 

tbirdmarco

 That being said the charger and Chrysler 300 have horrible interiors the newer Chrysler stuff is good for all their interiors are pretty good I really like the eco-sport a lot but think my mom love the on the corner or Tucson 

tbirdmarco

 So if you places to go and do some test drives short list now going to the show help a lot that’s all for now off to bed have a good night all 

tbirdmarco

 Out of the Kia stuff was nice to stingers nice but I don’t know what all the hype about was nice wouldn’t go crazy for it ha ha Ha 

tbirdmarco

 So driver 100 yes we’ll see what my mom and also my aunt side to get a new car in the coming months