Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

nyccarguy

snakeweasel said:

stickguy said:

you would have loved my 1st new car. 1985 Colt. with a whopping 62 HP. Stick of course. Fun little car. Definitely had to work the shifter to keep up any sort of forward progress! But, some of us still find driving a slow car fast to be fun. 

It's better to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.

I agree to a point. Sometimes due to safety regulations, fuel economy standards, & the sheer size & weight of modern (compacts, sub compacts, & economy) cars, the fun is just SUCKED from them. Take 2 cars that I previously owned/leased, my 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium and my 2000 Saab 9-3 Base.

The Subaru had a NA 2.5L H4 that pumped out 175 hp/175 ft-lbs of torque. It powered all 4 wheels through a CVT transmission and weighed 3455 lbs. I can tell you that it was slow and NOT fun to drive (even after I added a thicker rear sway bar).

The Saab had a Turbocharged 2.0L Turbo I4 that pumped out 185 hp/194 ft-lbs of torque. It powered the front wheels through a 4 speed automatic and weighed 3160 lbs. That car was a BLAST to drive (even though there were higher HP motors available).

I know my Prelude isn't the fastest car off the line, but its brilliant handling and crisp shifting 5 speed manual make it a wonderful driver's car. My Infiniti is much better suited to daily driving duties and is MUCH more powerful. It doesn't handle as well and I constantly have to watch myself when I go to pass people because it gains speed and just wants to keep going.

graphicguy

abacomike said:

Holy ratzafratz!  I open Safari to check out my favorite forum board and find a “car war” going on that lasts for several pages - all over nothing!  I think I was foist into this “tempest in a teapot” due to my preference for the German Mercedes Benz.  But I really have no opinion about what smaller cars look the best - I have no attitudes about what other people consider cute or good looking or that others have opinions about when it comes to cars.

I thought we were all friends here - but I guess I was wrong.  Friends respect the opinions of others.  Let’s move on to another topic - OK?

Good point, Mike.

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things.

Sorry!

roadburner

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

As for my BMWs, I've been kidded more than once about several of their "features," such as batteries that require registration-

I didn't need a new battery on my previous 328, so I was not aware. Tell me more.. what is this about?

The 3er received the Intelligent Battery System(IBS) with the introduction of the E90. Basically the car needs to be told the amp hour rating of the new battery as well as whether the replacement is an AGM battery or not. I bought the Carly App that connects to your car via a wi-fi dongle plugged in to the OBDII port. Carly lets me register the new battery in under five minutes. It also lets you do all sorts of other interesting things as well, like removing the idiotic iDrive consent screen and resetting the temperature of the heated seats- not to mention the ability to read/reset BMW specific fault codes.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

I know my Prelude isn't the fastest car off the line, but its brilliant handling and crisp shifting 5 speed manual make it a wonderful driver's car. My Infiniti is much better suited to daily driving duties and is MUCH more powerful. It doesn't handle as well and I constantly have to watch myself when I go to pass people because it gains speed and just wants to keep going.

Ditto for my ti and 2er. I can beat on the ti like a red-headed stepchild and never attract the attention of law enforcement. The 2er on the other hand will reach triple digit speeds in no time if you aren't careful.
I love them both.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things.

Sorry!

I don't think that you have anything to apologize for. Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's simply their opinion- and I feel no need to whine about it.

dino001

roadburner said:

You have absolutely nothing to apologize for! Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's their opinion- I feel no need to whine about it.

I'm worse - I'm gonna call your i3 pointless
Seriously - I drove the thing and it was wicked fast, but I still didn't get the point with the range. I also remember the survey after the test drive asking all kinds of questions but it was clear they didn't really want to know the most important thing, which was what it would take for me to want one. One of those typical surveys - ask 15 questions, learn nothing.

stickguy

Heck, I had to keep dialing back the Elantra on the highway. Even though it is geared a bit short (great for instant response!) it crushes along nicely at 75 and if you don’t watch it, will creep up to 85 and you won’t even notice. I have not tried but I suspect it would run to 100 without breaking a sweat and feel just fine doing it.

roadburner

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

You have absolutely nothing to apologize for! Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's their opinion- I feel no need to whine about it.

I'm worse - I'm gonna call your i3 pointless
Seriously - I drove the thing and it was wicked fast, but I still didn't get the point with the range. I also remember the survey after the test drive asking all kinds of questions but it was clear they didn't really want to know the most important thing, which was what it would take for me to want one. One of those typical surveys - ask 15 questions, learn nothing.

The i3 is primarily a city car. It suits my wife and I perfectly as we only use it to drive to and from work as well as to run errands around town. Because the commutes are under 30 miles round trip I'm able to fully charge it overnight using the supplied charger. But yes, for the average US driver it would not be suitable as either an only car or even a second car.

pensfan83

roadburner said:

I don't think that you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's simply their opinion- and I feel no need to whine about it.

As I've said before I appreciate the open, but respectful dialogue on this forum relative to many other automotive boards. If what transpired over the last 2 pages is considered a personal attack I think spending a few hours on brand specific boards is in order to get some perspective on what truly constitutes posts full of vitriol should be done.

oldfarmer50

iluvmysephia1 said:

People step over the line when they crap on the cars you like and and run them through the mud like a beautiful Chow Chow at Yulin, China.

I have not put down the countless German bland-mobiles that get foisted upon us here like clockwork on Edmunds. But yet the German fanboys get a get out of jail card for all time for pooping forever on econocars? Nope. That ain't  right. It's not about taking it personally. It's about someone having the Kahuna's to step up to the bully boys and calling a stop to it.

I'm on other sites. It's no lost skin to me if people vote my butt out of here. I can happily walk away from Edmunds. It would just be a shame to cut out a chunk of people that like other types of automobiles on here.

Vote you off? If posters had that power not many of us would still be here. Many times comments made in jest don't come across that way.

dino001

By the way, I sat inside of i8 in Spartanburg's "museum" exhibit during my delivery. As beautiful that car is, it's a daily torture device and emergency death trap in terms of ingress and egress. Just plain horrible. I guess all of those supercars are like that.

When it comes to "weird" looks of i3, those didn't really bother me. I kind of like "weird", can even own it. Believe it or not, even Aztek, which majority find worst looking vehicle in the world didn't offend me that much, especially in red or blue. There were some angles, that I even liked it. Walter White's Aztek in the sand color and worned out cladding, however - yeah, that was pretty awful.

roadburner

pensfan83 said:

roadburner said:

I don't think that you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's simply their opinion- and I feel no need to whine about it.

As I've said before I appreciate the open, but respectful dialogue on this forum relative to many other automotive boards. If what transpired over the last 2 pages is considered a personal attack I think spending a few hours on brand specific boards is in order to get some perspective on what truly constitutes posts full of vitriol should be done.

Exactly; if you think the discussions on this board are rough I suggest that you check out Mazdaspeedforums.org.

berri

I doubt all this tariff stuff will go real long. I think it is mostly posturing. If not though, or it all blows up, we'll probably all be holding onto our cars longer than we expect when we see the price impacts. As for car brands, I buy what I want and never really worry about what others think.

oldfarmer50

berri said:

I doubt all this tariff stuff will go real long. I think it is mostly posturing. If not though, or it all blows up, we'll probably all be holding onto our cars longer than we expect when we see the price impacts. As for car brands, I buy what I want and never really worry about what others think.

Same here. I'm a cheapskate so my sweet spot is buying an old low milage clunker for under $3k and running it for as long as it lasts. Depends on what you want out of a car.

For my wilder moments I have the Mustang. For Father's Day I turned off the traction control for the first time and had a ball leaving half my rear tires out on the road. I don't need that kind of adventure too much any more.

fintail

Now here's a cool Nissan:



These are cool too:



I remember when I was in high school around 1994, I knew a girl who drove a Datsun 710 2 door sedan, a hen's tooth I don't think I have seen since.

These were decent cars, I think:



Maybe iluv should find a fun rare vintage Nissan to scratch that itch, and keep the Soul as a daily driver, or maybe update it with a new Soul. Those are honest inoffensive cars.

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

Good point, Mike.

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things.

Sorry!

Well that's a relief. I thought I started it. ;b

stickguy

I drove a used 610 or 710 in 1979. Was for sale. Man it had terrible drive ability. Even by 1979 standards! Dieseled, stumbled, just nasty.

thebean

roadburner said:

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things. Sorry!

I don't think that you have anything to apologize for. Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's simply their opinion- and I feel no need to whine about it.

+1.  GG, you have nothing to apologize for.  It's an opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs.  People bag on the Civic's styling all the time and it bothers me not one iota.  Some people have to have validation for their choices.  

henryn

Speaking of the Nissan Juke, I rather like those. They’re so ugly they’re cute, kind of like a Pug. A few years back, I was kicking tires at a Carmax, trying to see just how many different cars actually had enough head room and b___ room for me. And surprise, surprise, I fit comfortably in a Juke they had sitting there. I would have actually taken that one for a test drive except for the funky smell, really musty.

And on the Nissan Frontier, they suffer from a lack of headroom, which eliminates them from my consideration. I was so uncomfortable trying to sit in one I never even drove it. Same thing for a new Tacoma. The Colorado was much better, just too expensive for what you’re getting. I just cannot see myself paying more (considerably more) for a Colorado than for a Silverado.

YMMV

graphicguy

I do remember when Datsun/Nissan made some really cool cars. I know the 240sx was a rally favorite for a long time.

Seems Corollas, Mazda 3s and Civics have set the benchmark for small, affordable cars and it's a tough bar to meet, let alone exceed, by the other manufacturers.

And yes, you can go to Acurazine and get an earful (eyeful?) over there, too.

stickguy

Tacoma seating position is way too low for me.

stickguy

I am really interested in trying out a new ranger when they show up.

qbrozen

henryn said:

Speaking of the Nissan Juke, I rather like those. They’re so ugly they’re cute, kind of like a Pug. A few years back, I was kicking tires at a Carmax, trying to see just how many different cars actually had enough head room and b___ room for me. And surprise, surprise, I fit comfortably in a Juke they had sitting there. I would have actually taken that one for a test drive except for the funky smell, really musty.

And on the Nissan Frontier, they suffer from a lack of headroom, which eliminates them from my consideration. I was so uncomfortable trying to sit in one I never even drove it. Same thing for a new Tacoma. The Colorado was much better, just too expensive for what you’re getting. I just cannot see myself paying more (considerably more) for a Colorado than for a Silverado.

YMMV

I'm with you. I was talking around here about the Juke just prior to its release. Sadly, they missed the mark just enough that I lost interest by making it auto only with AWD and priced $2k-$3k too high.

roadburner

dino001 said:

By the way, I sat inside of i8 in Spartanburg's "museum" exhibit during my delivery. As beautiful that car is, it's a daily torture device and emergency death trap in terms of ingress and egress. Just plain horrible. I guess all of those supercars are like that.

When it comes to "weird" looks of i3, those didn't really bother me. I kind of like "weird", can even own it. Believe it or not, even Aztek, which majority find worst looking vehicle in the world didn't offend me that much, especially in red or blue. There were some angles, that I even liked it. Walter White's Aztek in the sand color and worned out cladding, however - yeah, that was pretty awful.

When I worked at BMW I told potential i8 customers that the car came with a year's worth of free visits to a chiropractor.

28firefighter

My BIL and SIL had a Nissan Juke for a few years. They loved it and still talk about how they miss it. Their affinity for it makes me question their judgment.

andres3

https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5804590/why-you-shouldnt-drive-slowly-in-the-left-lane

It is June, and that means it is Lane Courtesy Month!

I hope by the time we have a full fledged "Space Force" we have lane courtesy rivaling Germany.

andres3

fintail said:

I have no data, but I suspect many funds in Murka aren't as well-managed, and I know there's no way some recipients (like my friend's parents) invested anything close to their withdrawals at a ROI possible by a private sector saver.

Sometimes the "attracting talent" line for leadership salaries becomes just a cover-up for excess.

ab348 said:

The pension plan I have is funded at just over 100% according to the current actuarial report and both the employees and employer contribute equally. Just before I retired I was paying in around $1K.mo which the gov was matching. The eligible amount of salary gets cut off somewhere around $120K/yr too so as gov starts paying for more high-priced jobs as has been the trend here they do not suffer so much later on the pension front. That is actually a bigger concern IMO. Here, the province used to be very frugal with salaries. Over the last 10 years or so they started paying executive types a lot more supposedly to attract them but the result was that everyone under them all got jacked up salaries as well. I don't mind paying a good CEO what he's worth but paying $200K a year for a mediocre finance or HR type irks me.

Yes, if astronomical salaries "attracted talent" how do they explain the highly paid CEO's that have driven companies into the ground (or into bailouts). I suppose one could reference all the years where the Yankees had MLB's highest payrolls, with dismal results, but eventually the method worked.

nyccarguy

andres3 said:

fintail said:

I have no data, but I suspect many funds in Murka aren't as well-managed, and I know there's no way some recipients (like my friend's parents) invested anything close to their withdrawals at a ROI possible by a private sector saver.

Sometimes the "attracting talent" line for leadership salaries becomes just a cover-up for excess.

ab348 said:

The pension plan I have is funded at just over 100% according to the current actuarial report and both the employees and employer contribute equally. Just before I retired I was paying in around $1K.mo which the gov was matching. The eligible amount of salary gets cut off somewhere around $120K/yr too so as gov starts paying for more high-priced jobs as has been the trend here they do not suffer so much later on the pension front. That is actually a bigger concern IMO. Here, the province used to be very frugal with salaries. Over the last 10 years or so they started paying executive types a lot more supposedly to attract them but the result was that everyone under them all got jacked up salaries as well. I don't mind paying a good CEO what he's worth but paying $200K a year for a mediocre finance or HR type irks me.

Yes, if astronomical salaries "attracted talent" how do they explain the highly paid CEO's that have driven companies into the ground (or into bailouts). I suppose one could reference all the years where the Yankees had MLB's highest payrolls, with dismal results, but eventually the method worked.

HEY! Leave The Yankees out of this! LOL!

pensfan83

stickguy said:

I am really interested in trying out a new ranger when they show up.

My dad is anxiously awaiting its arrival. Though his F-150 is only a little over 5 years old and I would guess still under 60,000 miles, he wants to downsize from a full size truck.

suydam

qbrozen said:

henryn said:

Speaking of the Nissan Juke, I rather like those. They’re so ugly they’re cute, kind of like a Pug. A few years back, I was kicking tires at a Carmax, trying to see just how many different cars actually had enough head room and b___ room for me. And surprise, surprise, I fit comfortably in a Juke they had sitting there. I would have actually taken that one for a test drive except for the funky smell, really musty.

And on the Nissan Frontier, they suffer from a lack of headroom, which eliminates them from my consideration. I was so uncomfortable trying to sit in one I never even drove it. Same thing for a new Tacoma. The Colorado was much better, just too expensive for what you’re getting. I just cannot see myself paying more (considerably more) for a Colorado than for a Silverado.

YMMV

I'm with you. I was talking around here about the Juke just prior to its release. Sadly, they missed the mark just enough that I lost interest by making it auto only with AWD and priced $2k-$3k too high.

I absolutely hate the Juke. We actually drove a used one. Not only does it look like something out of a cartoon, it was horribly uncomfortable. I couldn’t find a way to get comfortable, either as a driver or a passenger. There are a lot of odd angles that stick out everywhere. Odd for Nissan —- most of their vehicles are styled very nicely. My favorite car of all time was an ‘01 Nissan Maxima. That was one smooth vehicle.

abacomike

graphicguy said:

abacomike said:

Holy ratzafratz!  I open Safari to check out my favorite forum board and find a “car war” going on that lasts for several pages - all over nothing!  I think I was foist into this “tempest in a teapot” due to my preference for the German Mercedes Benz.  But I really have no opinion about what smaller cars look the best - I have no attitudes about what other people consider cute or good looking or that others have opinions about when it comes to cars.

I thought we were all friends here - but I guess I was wrong.  Friends respect the opinions of others.  Let’s move on to another topic - OK?

Good point, Mike.

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things.

Sorry!

Hey, GG, I don't think anyone started anything - especially you! You have a right to express your opinion about cars, styles, etc. If iluv disagrees with your opinion, he has that right as well. The problem I am alluding to has to do with "over-reaction" to a stated opinion by other posters. That happens infrequently, but it does happen.

I know that RB loves BMW's - my experiences with 7 BMW's in my lifetime is that I just don't like them. Every once in a while I forget that I don't like BMW's and end up in a 5 or 7 series and slowly, but surely, I find them too stiff and very unforgiving in certain driving conditions. I then go back to Mercedes. But I respect RB's opinion of that brand and for his driving needs and style, BMW probably is the best vehicle for him.

Then, there is driver100. We all know his opinions - he loves Mercedes Benz. He reminds us of that quite frequently - but he has that right to express his opinion. Most posters here don't like Mercedes - but that's OK too!

We all know jmonroe loves his Genesis - now relabled a G80. I've driven them and almost got one - but I just did not like the ride and handling. But jmonroe's opinion of that car is HIS OPINION - he has that right to express that opinion.

It's when posters get too personal and/or emotional about someone's post that expresses an opinion that is the opposite of their opinion. The reaction is what gets us into trouble.

GG, you started nothing!

stickguy

Mike, I think it says something about you that you mention a brand that you just don't like, but you still somehow had 7 of them!

abacomike

stickguy said:

I drove a used 610 or 710 in 1979. Was for sale. Man it had terrible drive ability. Even by 1979 standards! Dieseled, stumbled, just nasty.

My wife had just learned to drive in 1974 or 1975 so we went out looking for a car for her so she could be independent and not have to wait for me to come home and go shopping or go to the mall. We ended up with a dark green Datsun 610 4-door sedan. It was the right size for her and she loved it. I rarely drove it because I preferred my own car which was full-size. But she loved that car - maybe as much as she loved me - or maybe even more!

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, one has to be careful how one expresses him/her self in a digital medium. We can't see your eyebrows or ironic gestures. Emoticons would help I guess.

henryn

I remember once, several years back, a thread got started here. A number of posters were saying not very nice things about people who used their garages for storage. Being a person who does exactly that, I took offense, and wrote up a rather sharp rebuttal. But then I calmed down, let it go, never posted the rebuttal.

Number one, they probably didn’t intend to actually insult me. And even if they did (unlikely), it would have said more about them than it did about me.

I know I have absolutely no interest in a lot of the cars that are discussed here, but I do find the give and take interesting. We just have to remember not to take any of it personally.

When I was a kid, back in the ‘50s, all of the boys were crazy about cars. We would try to name every car that we saw, make and model. We knew the details of every one, engine size, transmission, etc, etc, etc. Cars were the most fascinating thing in the world. This, of course, before we were old enough to discover girls!

imidazol97

henryn said:

I remember once, several years back, a thread got started here. A number of posters were saying not very nice things about people who used their garages for storage.

Our garage is 2 1/2 car and has lots of stuff stored along the side and front. LOL
However, we can still get our 2 Chevrolets in easily.

On the other hand, one neighbor is a hoarder. The wife even has had stacks of clothing on sofas in the family room and the formal room along with lots of stuff. Husband kept pushing for garage sales, that never happened.

I see people who have moved into homes here with similar garages where the garage is filled with boxes. Apparently they slowly upack and toss the stuff they moved.

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes, one has to be careful how one expresses him/her self in a digital medium. We can't see your eyebrows or ironic gestures. Emoticons would help I guess.

But we should also give and have some leeway, too. Otherwise we turn into those "safe spaces" in campuses, where only one opinion is allowed and any dissent from mainstream thinking is considered a microaggression, or worse. I think we should be allowed to be blunt, as long as we don't attach personal attacks or start questioning each others' motives. We got from "I and fifty other people don't think Yaris is fun" into "you fan boys are mean to me" way too quickly.

I would hate to see some kind of embargo on opinions that "I think XYZ brand-model sucks and here is why". I think those, while blunt, are legitimate opinions and should not be considered offensive as long as they don't include suggestions that people who disagree and/or (God save) own XYZ are inferior idiots.

dino001

henryn said:

I remember once, several years back, a thread got started here. A number of posters were saying not very nice things about people who used their garages for storage. Being a person who does exactly that, I took offense, and wrote up a rather sharp rebuttal. But then I calmed down, let it go, never posted the rebuttal.

Funny. My dad used to have a garage around a mile away from our apartment and he would religiously park his car there every evening. Garages were scarce and in high demand, so he was happy to have one there and use it for what it was build. This was when I was in grade and high school. Later (when I was in college) he got one close to the home. So I guess this imprinted on me. I cannot understand why would anybody expose their vehicle to the elements just so they can store some proverbial junk - but I never had enough junk to get that. Might change my mind one day, but probably unlikely.

Michaell

dino001 said:

henryn said:

I remember once, several years back, a thread got started here. A number of posters were saying not very nice things about people who used their garages for storage. Being a person who does exactly that, I took offense, and wrote up a rather sharp rebuttal. But then I calmed down, let it go, never posted the rebuttal.

Funny. My dad used to have a garage around a mile away from our apartment and he would religiously park his car there every evening. Garages were scarce and in high demand, so he was happy to have one there and use it for what it was build. This was when I was in grade and high school. Later (when I was in college) he got one close to the home. So I guess this imprinted on me. I can not understand why would anybody expose their vehicle to elements just so they can store some proverbial junk - but I never had enough junk to get that. Might change my mind one day, but probably unlikely.

For as long as we've owned houses, we've put two cars in the garage. Now that we have an oversized garage, it's nice to have some extra room for 'stuff', but nothing we don't need.

That's why we have a basement

driver100

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:

Good point, Mike.

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things.

Sorry!

Well that's a relief. I thought I started it. ;b

+1
I was lying low....thought I started it!

Mr_Shiftright

dino001 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes, one has to be careful how one expresses him/her self in a digital medium. We can't see your eyebrows or ironic gestures. Emoticons would help I guess.

But we should also give and have some leeway, too. Otherwise we turn into those "safe spaces" in campuses, where only one opinion is allowed and any dissent from mainstream thinking is considered a microaggression, or worse. I think we should be allowed to be blunt, as long as we don't attach personal attacks or start questioning each others' motives. We got from "I and fifty other people don't think Yaris is fun" into "you fan boys are mean to me" way too quickly.

I would hate to see some kind of embargo on opinions that "I think XYZ brand-model sucks and here is why". I think those, while blunt, are legitimate opinions and should not be considered offensive as long as they don't include suggestions that people who disagree and/or (God save) own XYZ are inferior idiots.

A basic rule is "attack ideas, never people". The forums should be a place where everyone feels comfortable enough to share information and feel welcome. It's a friendly bar, not someplace with brawls every night. It's also private property. So everyone agrees to abide by the set rules of decorum. It's not a college campus or city council meeting.

Really good forums are self-correcting. Members look out for each other and keep discussion civil.

henryn

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/2004-nissan-350z-6-speeds/6619027285.html

Here's an interesting Nissan for you. A 350z with a 6 speed. Sounds nice, except for the part about "third gear is out". (smile)

driver100

stickguy said:

Mike, I think it says something about you that you mention a brand that you just don't like, but you still somehow had 7 of them!

Yeh, he never learns.

houdini1

stickguy said:

I had that same car. Just in yellow, not pink. It was an X. Just a 6 cyl though, not a 401 CI V8. That car would have been scary with that much HP I think. I had a sweet spot for it. should have kept it longer. common theme in those days.

What was the awd AMC sedan that had good road clearance and was way ahead of its time?

henryn

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/6-speed-manual-335i-sedan/6611967366.html

Another interesting 6 speed. And apparently all of the gears work in this one!

tjc78

stickguy said:

Heck, I had to keep dialing back the Elantra on the highway. Even though it is geared a bit short (great for instant response!) it crushes along nicely at 75 and if you don’t watch it, will creep up to 85 and you won’t even notice. I have not tried but I suspect it would run to 100 without breaking a sweat and feel just fine doing it.

It will, because my putt-putt version will.

tjc78

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things.

Sorry!

I don't think that you have anything to apologize for. Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's simply their opinion- and I feel no need to whine about it.

Love this post.... aren't forums for debates?

Mr_Shiftright

houdini1 said:

stickguy said:

I had that same car. Just in yellow, not pink. It was an X. Just a 6 cyl though, not a 401 CI V8. That car would have been scary with that much HP I think. I had a sweet spot for it. should have kept it longer. common theme in those days.

What was the awd AMC sedan that had good road clearance and was way ahead of its time?

Oh you mean the AMC Eagle? It may have been ahead of its time in terms of a marketing concept for an AWD sedan, but in terms of technology, it was old stuff, bent-to-fit to an existing passenger car platform.

But, to be fair, the early Subaru AWDs were clunky things, too.

driver100

Good thing he wasn't looking at a Lexus.......some of the comments here could make a grown man cry

roadburner

tjc78 said:

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

I think I started it. There are certain cars I don't like, for a variety of reasons. I voiced my opinion on a certain brand/model. I offended when I didn't mean to. Just throwing out my experiences. I'll "zip it" from now on when it comes to those sorts of things.

Sorry!

I don't think that you have anything to apologize for. Maybe I have thicker skin than most, but I fear that this topic will become an extremely dull place if everyone stops expressing their opinions for fear of being labeled a "bully." Several people in this topic have called my i3 ugly, but so what? It's simply their opinion- and I feel no need to whine about it.

Love this post.... aren't forums for debates?

According to some, apparently not...