Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

sda

uh oh!  Issue with the new starter.  Hopefully fixed for good.

jmonroe

sda said:

uh oh!  Issue with the new starter.  Hopefully fixed for good.

That's what happens when you don't "register" it.

jmonroe

thebean

explorerx4 said:

@thebean, So you're trying to like a millennial?

Oh gracious no.   I seldom have my phone in my hand and I despise social media.  I'm going for hermit status.

thebean

sda said:

uh oh!  Issue with the new starter.  Hopefully fixed for good.

That's disappointing.  But, it happens.  You say it was a new starter?

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Some people! Dennis O'Sullivan answers questions from readers in our daily newspaper (delivered to the door, not the weekly one I scoop up out of the driveway).

This guy must live in the twilight zone......they are out there and they walk among us.

QUESTION

I have another new car dealer horror story. I signed a purchase for a new car and the trade-in value of my old car was just under eight thousand dollars. When I went in to pick up the car, I was informed that the trade in value of my car was now only five thousand dollars. How can a dealer alter the sales agreement when I have already signed a bill of sale and left a down payment for the new car? Their reason for telling me this is that they are disputing the mileage on my car, which I have driven for over three years. I purchased the car privately and the mileage has never been altered while I have owned the car. It is not my fault if someone altered the kilometres on the car before I purchased it and it looks like I am getting screwed twice—once from the person from whom I purchased it and now again from the dealer. Can the dealer back out of a signed contract? Bob from Binbrook

ANSWER

What do you think that your position would be if the situation was reversed and you purchased from the dealer a car that you thought had a certain mileage and then before you picked up the car, you found out that the car had many more kilometres than what the odometer reads? Would you agree then that the contract that you signed was still binding? It is not the dealer’s fault that you purchased a car with altered kilometres and remember that you signed a statement to the dealer that the mileage was correct. What I do not understand is that your car has the type of odometer that cannot be altered so someone must have replaced the odometer with a used one that had fewer kilometres. Since you are the second owner and you did not replace the odometer then you should again contact the original owner of the car to see if you can sort out the discrepancy in the mileage. I am not sure if anything at this late date can be done to the original owner. This is not a fault that you can place in the hands of the dealer.

You Canadians and other metric-ites confuse me. In the same sentence mileage and kilometers is mentioned. Make up your minds...mileage or kilometage.

jmonroe

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. I think the US is one of the few countries that hasn't converted to metric. The others are "At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures."

abacomike

driver100 said:

Some people! Dennis O'Sullivan answers questions from readers in our daily newspaper (delivered to the door, not the weekly one I scoop up out of the driveway). This guy must live in the twilight zone......they are out there and they walk among us. QUESTION I have another new car dealer horror story. I signed a purchase for a new car and the trade-in value of my old car was just under eight thousand dollars. When I went in to pick up the car, I was informed that the trade in value of my car was now only five thousand dollars. How can a dealer alter the sales agreement when I have already signed a bill of sale and left a down payment for the new car? Their reason for telling me this is that they are disputing the mileage on my car, which I have driven for over three years. I purchased the car privately and the mileage has never been altered while I have owned the car. It is not my fault if someone altered the kilometres on the car before I purchased it and it looks like I am getting screwed twice—once from the person from whom I purchased it and now again from the dealer. Can the dealer back out of a signed contract? Bob from Binbrook ANSWER What do you think that your position would be if the situation was reversed and you purchased from the dealer a car that you thought had a certain mileage and then before you picked up the car, you found out that the car had many more kilometres than what the odometer reads? Would you agree then that the contract that you signed was still binding? It is not the dealer’s fault that you purchased a car with altered kilometres and remember that you signed a statement to the dealer that the mileage was correct. What I do not understand is that your car has the type of odometer that cannot be altered so someone must have replaced the odometer with a used one that had fewer kilometres. Since you are the second owner and you did not replace the odometer then you should again contact the original owner of the car to see if you can sort out the discrepancy in the mileage. I am not sure if anything at this late date can be done to the original owner. This is not a fault that you can place in the hands of the dealer.

You Canadians and other metric-ites confuse me. In the same sentence mileage and kilometers is mentioned. Make up your minds...mileage or kilometage. jmonroe

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. I think the US is one of the few countries that hasn't converted to metric. The others are "At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures."

In the 70’s and 80’s, there was a big push in modern math curriculum to teach metrics.  The US had set the year 2000 to implement metrics and do away with the old US measurement system.  You see how far that got.

The resistance to metrics was overwhelming.  Teachers had to be trained in metrics in order to teach the system.  It was expected it would take a generation or 2 to smoothly transition the country to metrics.  But the resistance to metrics by educators and the American population at the time was relentless.  Thus, we are stuck with feet, yards, inches, miles, etc.  Most unfortunate - the metric system is actually less confusing and more precise.  Medicine uses cc’s, liters, etc., but not too much else.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Some people! Dennis O'Sullivan answers questions from readers in our daily newspaper (delivered to the door, not the weekly one I scoop up out of the driveway).

This guy must live in the twilight zone......they are out there and they walk among us.

QUESTION

I have another new car dealer horror story. I signed a purchase for a new car and the trade-in value of my old car was just under eight thousand dollars. When I went in to pick up the car, I was informed that the trade in value of my car was now only five thousand dollars. How can a dealer alter the sales agreement when I have already signed a bill of sale and left a down payment for the new car? Their reason for telling me this is that they are disputing the mileage on my car, which I have driven for over three years. I purchased the car privately and the mileage has never been altered while I have owned the car. It is not my fault if someone altered the kilometres on the car before I purchased it and it looks like I am getting screwed twice—once from the person from whom I purchased it and now again from the dealer. Can the dealer back out of a signed contract? Bob from Binbrook

ANSWER

What do you think that your position would be if the situation was reversed and you purchased from the dealer a car that you thought had a certain mileage and then before you picked up the car, you found out that the car had many more kilometres than what the odometer reads? Would you agree then that the contract that you signed was still binding? It is not the dealer’s fault that you purchased a car with altered kilometres and remember that you signed a statement to the dealer that the mileage was correct. What I do not understand is that your car has the type of odometer that cannot be altered so someone must have replaced the odometer with a used one that had fewer kilometres. Since you are the second owner and you did not replace the odometer then you should again contact the original owner of the car to see if you can sort out the discrepancy in the mileage. I am not sure if anything at this late date can be done to the original owner. This is not a fault that you can place in the hands of the dealer.

You Canadians and other metric-ites confuse me. In the same sentence mileage and kilometers is mentioned. Make up your minds...mileage or kilometage.

jmonroe

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. I think the US is one of the few countries that hasn't converted to metric. The others are "At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures."

In case you haven't noticed, we row our own boat. Why? Because we can.

jmonroe

berri

sda - that Honda is a nice color for living in SC. Always surprises me how many dark colored cars I see in the southern states.

henryn

abacomike said:

In the 70’s and 80’s, there was a big push in modern math curriculum to teach metrics.  The US had set the year 2000 to implement metrics and do away with the old US measurement system.  You see how far that got.

The resistance to metrics was overwhelming.  Teachers had to be trained in metrics in order to teach the system.  It was expected it would take a generation or 2 to smoothly transition the country to metrics.  But the resistance to metrics by educators and the American population at the time was relentless.  Thus, we are stuck with feet, yards, inches, miles, etc.  Most unfortunate - the metric system is actually less confusing and more precise.  Medicine uses cc’s, liters, etc., but not too much else.

It started earlier than that, it was the subject of intense debate back in the 60's when I was in school (jr and sr high school). At the time I was opposed. Now I wish we had done it, we would be better off. Immensely.

henryn

jmonroe said:

In case you haven't noticed, we row our own boat. Why? Because we can.

jmonroe

Now that is possibly the poorest excuse I have ever seen for doing anything.

berri

My kids were both taught metric system in the latter 90's and 00's while in grade school and high school. So it may have varied by the school district. You can't really study high school science like chemistry and physics effectively without using metrics. Also, the US military has used metrics for many years. Actually, once you learn it, I think it is actually easier than our measurement system. But in those school districts that resisted, I have to wonder if it was really the educators, or more the pushback from students and their parents? I'm not blanket supporting teachers on everything, but I do think they take a lot of blame for crap that isn't under their purview or their fault. In today's US school environment, all you really have to do is put metrics into the standardized test and you'll be sure it is covered. btw, I think a lot of US car dealer mechanics have to also have metric tools in their inventory.

abacomike

berri said:

My kids were both taught metric system in the latter 90's and 00's while in grade school and high school. So it may have varied by the school district. You can't really study high school science like chemistry and physics effectively without using metrics. Also, the US military has used metrics for many years. Actually, once you learn it, I think it is actually easier than our measurement system. But in those school districts that resisted, I have to wonder if it was really the educators, or more the pushback from students and their parents? I'm not blanket supporting teachers on everything, but I do think they take a lot of blame for crap that isn't under their purview or their fault. In today's US school environment, all you really have to do is put metrics into the standardized test and you'll be sure it is covered. btw, I think a lot of US car dealer mechanics have to also have metric tools in their inventory.

Berri, I was a teacher from 1968 to 1973 and then a school principal from 1973 to 1990.  I was right in the middle of that push.  The teachers, for the most part, did not support the changes in math curriculum in Chicago and in the western suburbs. The northern suburbs did support the curriculum.  There just was not enough consensus.

berri

I went to school in the western Chicago suburbs and had to study the metric system in both junior high and high school back in the 60's, but I do hear what you are saying. When I went on active duty some of my fellow lieutenants actually had to be given some immersion into metrics. I imagine that is not the case today. For that matter, a computer will do the conversions for you, but I do think learning the math allows you to visualize it better.

jmonroe

henryn said:

In case you haven't noticed, we row our own boat. Why? Because we can. jmonroe

Now that is possibly the poorest excuse I have ever seen for doing anything.

Good enough for me.

jmonroe

ab348

sda said:

uh oh!  Issue with the new starter.  Hopefully fixed for good.

Starter #2 also failed? Good gravy, man, dump that lemon and buy a reliable GM car!!!

fintail

I think many kids who are "with it" learn metric, even if it isn't the standard in schools - definitely any who are looking at going into any scientific or technical field. I learned it a bit as a K-12 student in the 80s and 90s, but maybe it was taught more on the west coast than other places. Once you learn a few easy rules, conversion between the old world and metric isn't hard.

sda

berri said:

sda - that Honda is a nice color for living in SC. Always surprises me how many dark colored cars I see in the southern states.

It wasn't my first choice, but I really like it, it is forgiving in not showing that it needs to be washed, and keeps the interior cooler in the summer.


Long story that I won't get into, but the starter was replaced by a local GY store, with a Honda starter, 3/36 warranty. I had to have it towed as it wouldn't start. They were prompt in fixing it and so far so good.

28firefighter

I was taught metric conversions in high school. Not all too useful for me anymore outside of understanding medication doses and driving in Canada....

Mr_Shiftright

berri said:

I went to school in the western Chicago suburbs and had to study the metric system in both junior high and high school back in the 60's, but I do hear what you are saying. When I went on active duty some of my fellow lieutenants actually had to be given some immersion into metrics. I imagine that is not the case today. For that matter, a computer will do the conversions for you, but I do think learning the math allows you to visualize it better.

Really all people have to do is count their fingers and toes. It's all about TEN.

Napoleon proposed a new metric calendar. Ten months of 30 days each and the rest holidays. I would have voted for it.

tjc78

28firefighter said:

I was taught metric conversions in high school. Not all too useful for me anymore outside of understanding medication doses and driving in Canada....

Google does great conversions

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Some people! Dennis O'Sullivan answers questions from readers in our daily newspaper (delivered to the door, not the weekly one I scoop up out of the driveway).

This guy must live in the twilight zone......they are out there and they walk among us.

QUESTION

I have another new car dealer horror story. I signed a purchase for a new car and the trade-in value of my old car was just under eight thousand dollars. When I went in to pick up the car, I was informed that the trade in value of my car was now only five thousand dollars. How can a dealer alter the sales agreement when I have already signed a bill of sale and left a down payment for the new car? Their reason for telling me this is that they are disputing the mileage on my car, which I have driven for over three years. I purchased the car privately and the mileage has never been altered while I have owned the car. It is not my fault if someone altered the kilometres on the car before I purchased it and it looks like I am getting screwed twice—once from the person from whom I purchased it and now again from the dealer. Can the dealer back out of a signed contract? Bob from Binbrook

ANSWER

What do you think that your position would be if the situation was reversed and you purchased from the dealer a car that you thought had a certain mileage and then before you picked up the car, you found out that the car had many more kilometres than what the odometer reads? Would you agree then that the contract that you signed was still binding? It is not the dealer’s fault that you purchased a car with altered kilometres and remember that you signed a statement to the dealer that the mileage was correct. What I do not understand is that your car has the type of odometer that cannot be altered so someone must have replaced the odometer with a used one that had fewer kilometres. Since you are the second owner and you did not replace the odometer then you should again contact the original owner of the car to see if you can sort out the discrepancy in the mileage. I am not sure if anything at this late date can be done to the original owner. This is not a fault that you can place in the hands of the dealer.

You Canadians and other metric-ites confuse me. In the same sentence mileage and kilometers is mentioned. Make up your minds...mileage or kilometage.

jmonroe

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. I think the US is one of the few countries that hasn't converted to metric. The others are "At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures."

In case you haven't noticed, we row our own boat. Why? Because we can.

jmonroe

You might be even better off if you would bite the bullet and go with the rest of the world...and you're not exactly rowing your own boat...you have Burma and Liberia for company.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Some people! Dennis O'Sullivan answers questions from readers in our daily newspaper (delivered to the door, not the weekly one I scoop up out of the driveway).

This guy must live in the twilight zone......they are out there and they walk among us.

QUESTION

I have another new car dealer horror story. I signed a purchase for a new car and the trade-in value of my old car was just under eight thousand dollars. When I went in to pick up the car, I was informed that the trade in value of my car was now only five thousand dollars. How can a dealer alter the sales agreement when I have already signed a bill of sale and left a down payment for the new car? Their reason for telling me this is that they are disputing the mileage on my car, which I have driven for over three years. I purchased the car privately and the mileage has never been altered while I have owned the car. It is not my fault if someone altered the kilometres on the car before I purchased it and it looks like I am getting screwed twice—once from the person from whom I purchased it and now again from the dealer. Can the dealer back out of a signed contract? Bob from Binbrook

ANSWER

What do you think that your position would be if the situation was reversed and you purchased from the dealer a car that you thought had a certain mileage and then before you picked up the car, you found out that the car had many more kilometres than what the odometer reads? Would you agree then that the contract that you signed was still binding? It is not the dealer’s fault that you purchased a car with altered kilometres and remember that you signed a statement to the dealer that the mileage was correct. What I do not understand is that your car has the type of odometer that cannot be altered so someone must have replaced the odometer with a used one that had fewer kilometres. Since you are the second owner and you did not replace the odometer then you should again contact the original owner of the car to see if you can sort out the discrepancy in the mileage. I am not sure if anything at this late date can be done to the original owner. This is not a fault that you can place in the hands of the dealer.

You Canadians and other metric-ites confuse me. In the same sentence mileage and kilometers is mentioned. Make up your minds...mileage or kilometage.

jmonroe

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. I think the US is one of the few countries that hasn't converted to metric. The others are "At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures."

In the 70’s and 80’s, there was a big push in modern math curriculum to teach metrics.  The US had set the year 2000 to implement metrics and do away with the old US measurement system.  You see how far that got.

The resistance to metrics was overwhelming.  Teachers had to be trained in metrics in order to teach the system.  It was expected it would take a generation or 2 to smoothly transition the country to metrics.  But the resistance to metrics by educators and the American population at the time was relentless.  Thus, we are stuck with feet, yards, inches, miles, etc.  Most unfortunate - the metric system is actually less confusing and more precise.  Medicine uses cc’s, liters, etc., but not too much else

.

We did it, it was a pain, but now we are pretty much into the metric system. People over 60 still think the old way..........but, people can convert, and young kids pick it up pretty fast.

driver100

We met friends for lunch today. They bought a new Avalon. We went for a short ride in it. On the plus side, the seats are very comfortable. I also liked the GPS/media screen is built into the dash. I know it is just my opinion, but, I found the instrument panel to be trying too hard....to be space age looking. The interior was monochrome black, and I mean everything is black...no contrast. Just me, but the car doesn't feel balanced, way too cab forward, feel like I am riding in a bus. And the rear window is sloped back and seems to be way back. This gets exaggerated because the windows are narrow so it looks dark and the rear window seems to be way back. I found the seat was low and the hood drops off so you can't judge where it ends.

I always thought a Lexus or Avalon would be my go-to car if I found my MB to be troublesome and I wanted good reliable transportation. I couldn't do it. I'd take the MB or similar car (Audi, or BMW) even if it is less reliable. I know these cars feel right, the car feels balanced with a long hood and short trunk, and the passenger area has the right dimensions....and the windows are designed to see out of. The dash is low and you can see the hood. That is how a car should be designed....it feels right and is balanced....I don't get that in the Avalon.

ab348

Canada went through the conversion in the '70s. I remember '78 model cars all switched to metric speedometers and logged distance on the odometer in kilometers. That last thing made the usual 5-digit odometer pretty useless in a hurry as it now only recorded the equivalent of 60,000 miles before it rolled over. Scales in supermarkets switched to grams from ounces which was a slight pain. Fuel economy ratings on cars were the biggest adjustment as we went from the usual MPG to liters/100km which is a reversed way of thinking. Speed limits changed to km/hr which was a pretty easy adjustment too. Most everything sold in liquid form changed to liters or ml. Some holdouts remain in things like building supplies where you still buy 2x4s, 4x8 sheets of plywood, 12' deck boards, etc. It was a bit unsettling overall at first but now that a generation or two has dealt with it everyday it is no big deal.

fintail

I suspect these days the US going metric is less likely than ever - quite a few drones would probably consider it a globalist conspiracy.

Meanwhile, the world will march on, and those who pick it up will have an advantage.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Some people! Dennis O'Sullivan answers questions from readers in our daily newspaper (delivered to the door, not the weekly one I scoop up out of the driveway).

This guy must live in the twilight zone......they are out there and they walk among us.

QUESTION

I have another new car dealer horror story. I signed a purchase for a new car and the trade-in value of my old car was just under eight thousand dollars. When I went in to pick up the car, I was informed that the trade in value of my car was now only five thousand dollars. How can a dealer alter the sales agreement when I have already signed a bill of sale and left a down payment for the new car? Their reason for telling me this is that they are disputing the mileage on my car, which I have driven for over three years. I purchased the car privately and the mileage has never been altered while I have owned the car. It is not my fault if someone altered the kilometres on the car before I purchased it and it looks like I am getting screwed twice—once from the person from whom I purchased it and now again from the dealer. Can the dealer back out of a signed contract? Bob from Binbrook

ANSWER

What do you think that your position would be if the situation was reversed and you purchased from the dealer a car that you thought had a certain mileage and then before you picked up the car, you found out that the car had many more kilometres than what the odometer reads? Would you agree then that the contract that you signed was still binding? It is not the dealer’s fault that you purchased a car with altered kilometres and remember that you signed a statement to the dealer that the mileage was correct. What I do not understand is that your car has the type of odometer that cannot be altered so someone must have replaced the odometer with a used one that had fewer kilometres. Since you are the second owner and you did not replace the odometer then you should again contact the original owner of the car to see if you can sort out the discrepancy in the mileage. I am not sure if anything at this late date can be done to the original owner. This is not a fault that you can place in the hands of the dealer.

You Canadians and other metric-ites confuse me. In the same sentence mileage and kilometers is mentioned. Make up your minds...mileage or kilometage.

jmonroe

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. I think the US is one of the few countries that hasn't converted to metric. The others are "At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures."

In case you haven't noticed, we row our own boat. Why? Because we can.

jmonroe

You might be even better off if you would bite the bullet and go with the rest of the world...and you're not exactly rowing your own boat...you have Burma and Liberia for company.

Trying to keep this car related...they don't have anything close to our horsepower.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Some people! Dennis O'Sullivan answers questions from readers in our daily newspaper (delivered to the door, not the weekly one I scoop up out of the driveway).

This guy must live in the twilight zone......they are out there and they walk among us.

QUESTION

I have another new car dealer horror story. I signed a purchase for a new car and the trade-in value of my old car was just under eight thousand dollars. When I went in to pick up the car, I was informed that the trade in value of my car was now only five thousand dollars. How can a dealer alter the sales agreement when I have already signed a bill of sale and left a down payment for the new car? Their reason for telling me this is that they are disputing the mileage on my car, which I have driven for over three years. I purchased the car privately and the mileage has never been altered while I have owned the car. It is not my fault if someone altered the kilometres on the car before I purchased it and it looks like I am getting screwed twice—once from the person from whom I purchased it and now again from the dealer. Can the dealer back out of a signed contract? Bob from Binbrook

ANSWER

What do you think that your position would be if the situation was reversed and you purchased from the dealer a car that you thought had a certain mileage and then before you picked up the car, you found out that the car had many more kilometres than what the odometer reads? Would you agree then that the contract that you signed was still binding? It is not the dealer’s fault that you purchased a car with altered kilometres and remember that you signed a statement to the dealer that the mileage was correct. What I do not understand is that your car has the type of odometer that cannot be altered so someone must have replaced the odometer with a used one that had fewer kilometres. Since you are the second owner and you did not replace the odometer then you should again contact the original owner of the car to see if you can sort out the discrepancy in the mileage. I am not sure if anything at this late date can be done to the original owner. This is not a fault that you can place in the hands of the dealer.

You Canadians and other metric-ites confuse me. In the same sentence mileage and kilometers is mentioned. Make up your minds...mileage or kilometage.

jmonroe

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. I think the US is one of the few countries that hasn't converted to metric. The others are "At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures."

In case you haven't noticed, we row our own boat. Why? Because we can.

jmonroe

You might be even better off if you would bite the bullet and go with the rest of the world...and you're not exactly rowing your own boat...you have Burma and Liberia for company.

Trying to keep this car related...they don't have anything close to our horsepower.

jmonroe

I think they use elephant power (EP):

The country's highlands are home to elephants, rhinoceros, wild buffalo, wild boars as well as various deer species. Myanmar also houses varying monkey species including gibbons. Reptiles that are found in Myanmar include crocodiles, pythons, cobras and geckos

ab348

fintail said:

I suspect these days the US going metric is less likely than ever - quite a few drones would probably consider it a globalist conspiracy.

Meanwhile, the world will march on, and those who pick it up will have an advantage.

This reminded me of something from my work life. The last 12 years of my career was with our liquor board which from a retail POV was of a decent size, over 100 outlets doing over $600 million in sales a year. We had industry-standard point of sale, payment processing and back-office financial systems to help manage all that. At some point in the early 2000s we changed all of our payment card terminals to handle chip debit and credit cards (I seem to recall we did this at least twice in my time there). This was the result of cards changing from mag stripes to embedded chips that required a PIN, and then to touch processing for lower-value transactions, eliminating the need to enter a PIN (I think for transactions under $100).

By 2013 these had become well-accepted and worked without a hitch. That year my boss asked me to stand in for him to make a presentation at an annual conference of "liquor control jurisdictions" held in Virginia, that is, places like us where government ran the liquor retailing. It was in Williamsburg, a place I had been to before and quite liked, so I was glad to go. Back then I think there were 18 or so US states like that who were represented there, along with 5 or 6 Canadian provinces and even a few European counties. At a mix-and-mingle session I was in a group of a few people when the subject of credit card payments came up. I mentioned how we had upgraded to touch terminals, which was met by a number of blank stares. It was only then I realized that in the US at the time these were not in general use. I pulled out my wallet and showed them one of my credit cards with the embedded chip. This seemed like witchcraft to some of the US folks in the group, and I recall one of them saying something along the lines of how they would never accept such a system there. I'm not sure of his reasons why but got the impression it had something to do with a perception of giving too much information to the banks about what was being bought, which could in turn be used for nefarious purposes. Or maybe he just thought that it was less secure, or maybe it was just too foreign. I really couldn't figure that out. I discovered later when I had to buy gas that chip cards were, at the time, not accepted at those outlets either and maybe others too, not sure. I assume now 5 years later that they are in broader use in the USA? There may be a parallel here with the metric system and the reluctance to embrace that as well, who knows. The reluctance/suspicion struck me as simply a cultural thing where it took longer for the US to get comfortable with such things.

tjc78

Chip cards have taken off in the last 2-3 years here.   Many major chains still aren’t fully supporting them.  Wawa (huge gas/convenience store chain) is hit or miss. My location by work takes chips, the one by my house not yet.  

We we are just now in the process of coverting our stores to chip readers (required new POS equipment and pin pads) 

cdnpinhead

driver100 said:

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures.

The word you're searching for is distance.

While it's generally true that the UK has converted to SI, distances, at least in England, Wales & Scotland, are still measured in miles.

nyccarguy

I’ve always thought cost per 100 miles is a better measurement than  MPG.  

henryn

nyccarguy said:

I’ve always thought cost per 100 miles is a better measurement than  MPG.  

I agree, but it is different, and requires a slightly different viewpoint. Not hard at all if you're math savvy, but you have to remember there are a lot of people in this world who can't balance a checkbook.

berri

I like that idea NY!

A lot of American industry uses the metric system. I think some consumers may be reluctant because when a bottle size converts, it usually results in a hidden price increase giving you less content for the same money.

tjc78

henryn said:

I’ve always thought cost per 100 miles is a better measurement than  MPG.  

I agree, but it is different, and requires a slightly different viewpoint. Not hard at all if you're math savvy, but you have to remember there are a lot of people in this world who can't balance a checkbook.

With online banking does anyone really do that anymore?

graphicguy

Anyone else having issues with having to log in every time you check the forums even when you check the “remember me” box?

Going to a classic car show today. Rumor has it there will be a ‘91 NSX with 30K original miles on display, and “for sale”.

Hmmmmmmmmm!?!?!?!?!!

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

Anyone else having issues with having to log in every time you check the forums even when you check the “remember me” box? Going to a classic car show today. Rumor has it there will be a ‘91 NSX with 30K original miles on display, and “for sale”. Hmmmmmmmmm!?!?!?!?!!

I'll take a WAG at $45k asking

EDIT: oh, wait, is it a red automatic? Bought at auction in Feb for $44k, so I guess maybe $50k or $55k asking.

dino001

berri said:

I like that idea NY!

A lot of American industry uses the metric system. I think some consumers may be reluctant because when a bottle size converts, it usually results in a hidden price increase giving you less content for the same money.

They don’t need metric system to give you less stuff fir the same price. Bottles get latge bottom cones, chip bags get smaller fill, etc. No longer 6 oz, just 5.3, all without any hint of metric system.

fintail

Yep that's a funny thing about blighty, partial conversion - cars still have speedometers and odometers in miles.

cdnpinhead said:

While it's generally true that the UK has converted to SI, distances, at least in England, Wales & Scotland, are still measured in miles.

fintail

I think chip cards are everywhere now in my area, but I am in a more first world region of a country that isn't completely there. I remember going to Europe when they had moved over, and chip cards were rare here - it made some transactions (like at an ATM) a pain in the butt, I remember I had to call the bank and get instructions, as it wouldn't work without a code that wasn't released beforehand. Fun times.

ab348 said:

I assume now 5 years later that they are in broader use in the USA? There may be a parallel here with the metric system and the reluctance to embrace that as well, who knows. The reluctance/suspicion struck me as simply a cultural thing where it took longer for the US to get comfortable with such things.

houdini1

fintail said:

I suspect these days the US going metric is less likely than ever - quite a few drones would probably consider it a globalist conspiracy.

Meanwhile, the world will march on, and those who pick it up will have an advantage.

If it bothered me that much, I would just move to one of those countries that embrace the metric system.

houdini1

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I suspect these days the US going metric is less likely than ever - quite a few drones would probably consider it a globalist conspiracy.

Meanwhile, the world will march on, and those who pick it up will have an advantage.

This reminded me of something from my work life. The last 12 years of my career was with our liquor board which from a retail POV was of a decent size, over 100 outlets doing over $600 million in sales a year. We had industry-standard point of sale, payment processing and back-office financial systems to help manage all that. At some point in the early 2000s we changed all of our payment card terminals to handle chip debit and credit cards (I seem to recall we did this at least twice in my time there). This was the result of cards changing from mag stripes to embedded chips that required a PIN, and then to touch processing for lower-value transactions, eliminating the need to enter a PIN (I think for transactions under $100).

By 2013 these had become well-accepted and worked without a hitch. That year my boss asked me to stand in for him to make a presentation at an annual conference of "liquor control jurisdictions" held in Virginia, that is, places like us where government ran the liquor retailing. It was in Williamsburg, a place I had been to before and quite liked, so I was glad to go. Back then I think there were 18 or so US states like that who were represented there, along with 5 or 6 Canadian provinces and even a few European counties. At a mix-and-mingle session I was in a group of a few people when the subject of credit card payments came up. I mentioned how we had upgraded to touch terminals, which was met by a number of blank stares. It was only then I realized that in the US at the time these were not in general use. I pulled out my wallet and showed them one of my credit cards with the embedded chip. This seemed like witchcraft to some of the US folks in the group, and I recall one of them saying something along the lines of how they would never accept such a system there. I'm not sure of his reasons why but got the impression it had something to do with a perception of giving too much information to the banks about what was being bought, which could in turn be used for nefarious purposes. Or maybe he just thought that it was less secure, or maybe it was just too foreign. I really couldn't figure that out. I discovered later when I had to buy gas that chip cards were, at the time, not accepted at those outlets either and maybe others too, not sure. I assume now 5 years later that they are in broader use in the USA? There may be a parallel here with the metric system and the reluctance to embrace that as well, who knows. The reluctance/suspicion struck me as simply a cultural thing where it took longer for the US to get comfortable with such things.

Yeah, we have the chips now, and they are still being hacked right and left.

Mr_Shiftright

Most automotive work is metric now.

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

driver100 said:

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures.

The word you're searching for is distance.

While it's generally true that the UK has converted to SI, distances, at least in England, Wales & Scotland, are still measured in miles.

I believe in England you can still get a half pint or pint of beer too. Not a quarter liter or something.......

28firefighter

I try to use Apple Pay where possible because it doesn’t transmit anything unique to my card and requires my thumbprint to activate

driver100

nyccarguy said:

I’ve always thought cost per 100 miles is a better measurement than  MPG.  

But, what is the cost of the gas? I like the idea. but, wouldn't the answer vary.

bwia

Who is your daddy? Puppies Play With Daddy Dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckqwx2lVu78

abacomike

Yesterday, I met carnaught’s sisters for lunch at a place near FLL airport.  Delightful ladies - obviously brought up in a refined and dignified environment.  The conversations were refreshing and interesting.

The place we lunched at was unfortunately not very good -   less than acceptable based on what I ordered.  It is very difficult to ruin a chef’s salad - I mean one has to put effort into destroying every last bit of taste and to create a dish that is completely unappetizing.  The rolled up roast beef, ham and turkey breast was grizzly, fatty and completely tasteless.  The American an Monterey Jack cheese was dried out and also tasteless.  Good thing I didn’t order something that was easier to ruin like a corned beef sandwich or a Southwest Omelet.

The saving grace of the afternoon was observing well-educated and refined ladies who could effectively communicate thoughts and political stances.  Carnaught - you are blessed to have sisters like that! 

abacomike

driver100 said:

We measure the miles we go in kilometers....but, we still call it mileage because there is no word for kilometerage. At this time, only three countries—Burma and Liberia—have not adopted the International System of Units (SI, or metric system) as their official system of weights and measures.

The word you're searching for is distance. While it's generally true that the UK has converted to SI, distances, at least in England, Wales & Scotland, are still measured in miles.

I believe in England you can still get a half pint or pint of beer too. Not a quarter liter or something.......

A quarter liter of beer?  My God, that’s a quantity that wouldn’t get to my kidneys, let alone bladder.  It takes more than that meager amount to “WHET MY WHISTLE!”  Not enough to “WET MY WHISTLE” either!   

tbirdmarco

Nice reading alll  in hear  still can’t  rite  much  from this phone  

suydam

Just back from Ireland and England. I assure you Guinness (and other beer too) is still pulled by the pint. Needless to say, we had a great time!