Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97

bwia said:

Happy Independence Day to those who celebrate early. I am waiting for August 2 for the official real indepence day anniversary, that is the date when all the delegates signed the Declaration of Independence on August 2, 1776.

You mean we get to do it all over again?

AT first I thought you were talking about the Canadians celebrating July 1 and that they were early...

stickguy

had to do an unexpected assembly job today. Our old gas grill crapped out (it was an inexpensive Driver rationalization special), with burners rotting out, so went to the store to get a new one. All set up ready to go, so paid and wheeled it out to the car. Wrestled it into the back of the RDX, and discovered it was about 2" too wide to really fit. So decided to take on in the box instead of trying to half take it apart out in the parking lot to get it to fit. after an hour+ interpreting the hieroglyphic instructions with parts strewn all over the kitchen floor, got is assembled and working. Vastly better performance at least. And nothing blew up!

really thinking that a small PU is a wonderful spare car if you have a nice other one for regular duty.

henryn

stickguy said:

I could snow bird. Likely not to Florida, but maybe SC someplace. I just can't bring myself to move back up north to the really cold, snowy winters. I would be perfectly happy to never see snow in person again the rest of my life. Temps below freezing? No need for that either.

If you live in a warmer climate for a few years (Houston, where I am, for example), you find yourself hoping for at least one hard freeze over the winter. If you don't get at least one (and that definitely happens, no hard freeze), then the bugs the next spring and summer are MUCH worse.

driver100 said:

btw....just to clarify. I don't think there are any pos cars. There are a few cars I would not consider myself.....a Fiat and a Smartcar being the only two I can think of (and that Mazda 2 tiny bug).......and that is mainly because they seem so unsafe to me.

I think Ford makes pretty good cars....in fact most cars are pretty good these days....just some suit me better than others......because of the way they are designed, or because of the way they handle....or I like the looks.

+1 to that. If you're old enough to remember what cars used to be like that, truly there are no bad cars these days. I have considered buying a classic muscle car. I owned a 67 Barracuda Formula S, a 69 Charger R/T 440, a 1970 Challenger convertible, a 1972 Dodge Demon 340, and a 1976 Firebird Trans Am.

But my present Ford F150 is faster than most of those I listed (exception for the 69 Charger and the 72 Demon). And a whole lot less trouble. While I don't mind doing my own oil changes and tune ups, I do not want to be stranded by the side of the road when the electrical gremlins strike, or it decides to throw off all of the belts, or (choose any other minor catastrophe)

roadburner said:

I never understood all the hand-wringing about the size of the Fiat 500. We rented one for fun to visit our son when he was a student at South Carolina. We loved it; if we didn't already have the Clubman to use as my work beater I'd pick up a used Abarth in a heartbeat. Of course I've corrupted my wife to the point that she doesn't like large cars either. The 2er is the largest car in our garage by nearly a foot; everything else is 165" long or less.

Way back in the day, my brother owned a Geo Metro. I rather liked that little sucker with the 3 cylinder engine. Exception for the ungodly steering. If you owned one of those, you didn't need to belong to a gym, you got a full upper body workout every time you drove it. But the front seats were really spacious, a lot of free space, room to sit up straight, extend your arms, etc.

While shopping for the new F150 I was sitting in a Ford showroom at a salesman's desk, and a new Ecosport was sitting next to me, so I checked it out. Along with a new Shelby Mustang, and a decked out F250 (who knew those suckers ran up to $70k these days?) Anyway, back to the Ecosport. I rather liked it, reminded me a little bit of a modernized Geo Metro. 3 cylinder engine even (but turbocharged, this is the 21st century). And it had a surprising amount of front seat room. Not as much as the old Geo Metro, but more than most new cars.

I could see myself owning one of those for a commute car.

driver100

iluv driver100 - a 2013 Ford Focus ST isn't anywhere near done. Like shifty sez, new and newer cars ought ta go 175,000 miles these days. That's 114,000 more miles. For a grand automotive purchase price of less than $15,000? For a car that goes 0-60 in only 6.2 seconds? What's not ta love and cherish about this deal?

That 175000 was an average. We heard one car went 600000 miles, so when you average 600000 and what the Ford Focus got...it was a very low number to average 175000!

Besides, it is the end of the week and you will have a new wish list next week. Looking is more fun than buying, especially when you make your car payment each month.

btw....if you can manage the new payments why not double your monthly payment and pay your Soul off in one year?

Not being critical....just something to think about.........

iluvmysephia1

No need ta double up on payments to pay off the Soul quicker. That's the beauty of this. I'd only be financing $15,000, which includes the finance charges. At least mostly. It might end up being $15,500 for 5 years.

driver100

I try to be more disciplined....not saying I am right. Just works for me.
I think if you want something, you don't absolutely need, and you have to stretch your budget a bit, you should do something to demonstrate you will do something extra to get it.
If you want a new car....and you are under water on your current car....then manipulating the loan time can be a solution....but, not a great one......and $15000, to get a car with 5 years of miles on it....doesn't seem to be the best solution.....but, that is just me.

If for some reason, the car isn't as good as you think it is...you will be way under water.

sda

Driver, good advice. If you finance 60 months I would try to buy something no older than 3 yrs. Even then, in retrospect, I don't think we will do that again. The Pilot was 3 yrs old in '13 when we bought it. It was Honda certified and had just turned 50k, fully serviced, new battery, wiper blades, alignment, brakes front and back and it cost about 60% of a new one. Yet, as we get ready to make the last few payments I have an 8 year old car. In addition we've had to do the expensive maintenance, spark plugs, battery, timing belt, front brakes/rotors to keep it in tip top shape. The intent is to keep it as my wife is insistent on no new payments but if it starts acting up she will be the first to give it the boot. It has 119k on it now.

sda

We are enjoying our stay in Jacksonville. It is significantly cooler here than home, where it was 98 on Monday.
The fireworks display last night was impressive and we had a great view from the 14th floor of my SIL apt. The barge that shot off the fireworks was parked directly in front of us. Our dogs were not impressed, however. We leave tomorrow to go home to an non-airconditioned house. Ugh. Fingers crossed the system will be replaced on Saturday.

qbrozen

sda said:

Driver, good advice. If you finance 60 months I would try to buy something no older than 3 yrs. Even then, in retrospect, I don't think we will do that again. The Pilot was 3 yrs old in '13 when we bought it. It was Honda certified and had just turned 50k, fully serviced, new battery, wiper blades, alignment, brakes front and back and it cost about 60% of a new one. Yet, as we get ready to make the last few payments I have an 8 year old car. In addition we've had to do the expensive maintenance, spark plugs, battery, timing belt, front brakes/rotors to keep it in tip top shape. The intent is to keep it as my wife is insistent on no new payments but if it starts acting up she will be the first to give it the boot. It has 119k on it now.

Exactly. If it is your primary vehicle and racking up miles, financing an older car can be problematic from a financial standpoint. 

stickguy

I have used a 5 year and warranty period rule. That is, no payments on a car more than 5 YO, or out of warranty.

Somewhat arbitrary, but it forces you to buy within your means for the most part. And hard to be much under water.

stickguy

I have used a 5 year and warranty period rule. That is, no payments on a car more than 5 YO, or out of warranty.

Somewhat arbitrary, but it forces you to buy within your means for the most part. And hard to be much under water.

nyccarguy

sda said:

Driver, good advice. If you finance 60 months I would try to buy something no older than 3 yrs. Even then, in retrospect, I don't think we will do that again. The Pilot was 3 yrs old in '13 when we bought it. It was Honda certified and had just turned 50k, fully serviced, new battery, wiper blades, alignment, brakes front and back and it cost about 60% of a new one. Yet, as we get ready to make the last few payments I have an 8 year old car. In addition we've had to do the expensive maintenance, spark plugs, battery, timing belt, front brakes/rotors to keep it in tip top shape. The intent is to keep it as my wife is insistent on no new payments but if it starts acting up she will be the first to give it the boot. It has 119k on it now.

It is a tough call. Your Pilot was fully serviced with a clean bill of health and you had the piece of mind of the CPO warranty. You've put a lot into it as far as maintenance goes and it should last you as long as you are willing to keep it. Even at 8 years old, your 120K Pilot is still worth something if you wanted to part ways with it. You also saved 40% off the price of a new one up front, so you have to figure that into your ownership cost as well.

Since I do have to finance my cars, one of the reasons that I bought my CPO Infiniti last year was the fact that it was MUCH cheaper than it was brand new in late 2014, it had less than 7,500 miles on the odometer, and they had 0.99% financing for 3 years. It will actually be paid off before my Legacy (had I kept it the full term).

I maintain my cars "by the book" as many of you do. There are so many people that just don't bother or care. They will lease a $50K BMW, MB, or Audi and take it to Jiffy Lube for a "$39.99 Special" when the car calls for it, then not change the brake fluid, coolant, differential fluid (on AWD cars here in the NE). If you have a dealer that just "slaps" the CPO warranty on the car, details it so it looks pretty, & you have a problem on your hand.

Someone I do business with bought a beautiful CPO 2015 X5 (Dark Blue/Black Leather/M Sport/Pano Roof/Heads Up Display) about a year ago. He was looking for a very specific X5 as far as color/options go which as we know isn't always the easiest thing to do when you are buying used/CPO. After about a week of driving the car, he began to notice it smelled like stale smoke and got musty smelling when he was driving without the AC compressor running. There was also a cracked side marker light and cracked brake light lens the he didn't notice when he took delivery. He brought the car back to the dealer who removed the cabin filter which was BLACK (a clear indication the car was smoked in heavily) as well as the slightly damaged lenses I mentioned above. There was so much residual smoke in the carpeting and in the upholstery that it took a second cabin filter change plus a FULL interior detail for the smoke smell to finally dissipate.

suydam

Hard to believe he didn’t notice the smoke smell before he bought the car. It’s so strong you can never get it out.

sda

Regular and thorough maintenance is something I've always done, often more frequently than really needed. I also try to keep the vehicle clean, waxed and nicely presentable. The Pilot still looks nice, drives well and should provide us many more miles of pleasure, assuming the unexpected doesn't happen. My wife still likes it a lot, is very comfortable with how it drives and fits her needs, so that is a definite plus. If I tried to trade it without 'good reason' I will be sleeping in the garage or worse!

nyccarguy

suydam said:

Hard to believe he didn’t notice the smoke smell before he bought the car. It’s so strong you can never get it out.

It was "surfaced cleaned" and odor neutralized to be presentable so well that he didn't notice it.

nyccarguy

sda said:

Regular and thorough maintenance is something I've always done, often more frequently than really needed. I also try to keep the vehicle clean, waxed and nicely presentable. The Pilot still looks nice, drives well and should provide us many more miles of pleasure, assuming the unexpected doesn't happen. My wife still likes it a lot, is very comfortable with how it drives and fits her needs, so that is a definite plus. If I tried to trade it without 'good reason' I will be sleeping in the garage or worse!

I have no doubt that if I didn't receive the strong trade offer I was expecting, that I'd still be driving our 2011 Pilot. Although I DO like driving the new 2017 that is 6+ months old and has 9K miles. I don't like making payments, but we are so very happy with the new one! The 2011 would have 111K on it had we kept it.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

suydam said:

Hard to believe he didn’t notice the smoke smell before he bought the car. It’s so strong you can never get it out.

It was "surfaced cleaned" and odor neutralized to be presentable so well that he didn't notice it.

The level of CPO preparation is only as good as the dealer that is performing it. That cabin filter should have changed.

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

suydam said:

Hard to believe he didn’t notice the smoke smell before he bought the car. It’s so strong you can never get it out.

It was "surfaced cleaned" and odor neutralized to be presentable so well that he didn't notice it.

The level of CPO preparation is only as good as the dealer that is performing it. That cabin filter should have changed.

I agree with you 100%.

henryn

suydam said:

Hard to believe he didn’t notice the smoke smell before he bought the car. It’s so strong you can never get it out.

Not true. There are ways. Commercial outfits use ozone generators. Hotels and motels use them, and you can probably find a good detail shop in your area that has one. The smell will tend to return after an ozone treatment, but at lower levels, eventually fading away.

When I bought my 2016 Town and Country, I knew from the carfax that it had been a rental unit. There was no odor when I drove it, and when I first brought it home. A few days later, I started to pick up "that smell". I did a full cleaning of every leather, vinyl and plastic surface, and used Arm and Hammer Carpet Odor Eliminator (basically baking soda with some smell good added). You spread that on all the carpets, let it sit for a few hours, and then vacuum up as much as you can. This will leave a residual odor that is not exactly what you want, but better than cigarette smell. Add to that a couple of the "smell good" sticks in the A/C vents, and you can mask the unpleasant odors. By the time the perfume faded away in a couple of months, the cigarette odor was gone as well. I have had the minivan for about 18 months now, and for the last 15 or 16 months it has been basically odor free.

driver100

Sda&Nyc....there is a time to hold them and there is a time to fold them. Nothing wrong with a CPO or well maintained pre-owned car, but there is a sweet spot of time when it is best to get out.

I think that "If you finance 60 months I would try to buy something no older than 3 yrs" makes a lot of sense. A rule I followed was..............I would try to make a down payment large enough so that the car was worth more than what I owed on it, just in case I went under. When I leased a car (92 Cavalier) I had almost enough from my trade in to cover the lease payments for 3 years if I had to.

But, owing $15000 on a car that sells for $11500 that is 5 years old....that could be a huge pit to climb out of if something goes wrong.

graphicguy

@iluvmysephia1 .....I never had much luck with Carmax. They always lowballed me (by a lot) on trades and wanted high retail on anything I was interested in. So, I quit shopping them.

From where I sit, it seems you are in “paralysis by analysis” mode on what you want, how you want to buy it and how to sell it to your wife.

Me (one who is divorced, BTW)? I feel if you’re the bread winner and the only one driving the car (I thought I remembered you mentioning your wife doesn’t drive), you choose when and what to buy. Simple as that. Drawing down on a pension before you retire isn’t something I’d want to do. Not sure what the advantage is by doing that.

Bottom line, I think until you make your own decision about what to buy, and how to buy it, when you buy it, you’re sorta spinning your wheels but going nowhere.

Good luck!!!!!

graphicguy

To our wonderful hosts....any idea when the “log in problems” are going to be resolved?

stickguy

Probably when they convert to the new process, combining forums access with insider access

driver100

We are leaving to go to London UK in a few hours. Will be back on July 15th....I know a lot of the fans will miss me and my witty informative posts, especially my good friend who I won't actually name but whose initials are JM.

I should be on occasionally, and up until about 4:30 today. We have tickets for Wimbledon on Tuesday....the ladies quarter finals.

Have fun!

jmonroe

driver100 said:

We are leaving to go to London UK in a few hours. Will be back on July 15th....I know a lot of the fans will miss me and my witty informative posts, especially my good friend who I won't actually name but whose initials are JM.

I should be on occasionally, and up until about 4:30 today. We have tickets for Wimbledon on Tuesday....the ladies quarter finals.

Have fun!

Take your time, we'll manage somehow.

We would have questioned your flavor if you traveled to the other side of the globe to see the men. Anyway, have good time.

jmonroe

driver100

I like watching the women play....for a few reasons....one is, the ball moves slower!

graphicguy

@driver100 .....cool. Have a great time!

houdini1

driver100 said:

We are leaving to go to London UK in a few hours. Will be back on July 15th....I know a lot of the fans will miss me and my witty informative posts, especially my good friend who I won't actually name but whose initials are JM.

I should be on occasionally, and up until about 4:30 today. We have tickets for Wimbledon on Tuesday....the ladies quarter finals.

Have fun!

Are you going to watch normal tennis or the elite pickle ball bracket?

imidazol97

@driver100
Surely there are tennis matches closer to your residence.

driver100

No pickleball this time Houdini. They had world championships in Florida last month.

Imid, there is a match coming up in Toronto early August. After that Cinncinatti and New York....one day, but, there is only one Wimbledon.

Also, we like to combine a vacation trip with a tennis match. Next year we are planning a trip to see a match in Madrid in May. I only go to places with a roof...........if I am going that far I don't want to be rained out.

GG, Thanks for the good wishes.

imidazol97

Ah, vacation and tennis both. I've tried to think of something pithy to say in 250 words or less.
Have a good trip.

bwia

driver100 said:

We are leaving to go to London UK in a few hours. Will be back on July 15th....I know a lot of the fans will miss me and my witty informative posts, especially my good friend who I won't actually name but whose initials are JM.

I should be on occasionally, and up until about 4:30 today. We have tickets for Wimbledon on Tuesday....the ladies quarter finals.

Have fun!

I like women's tennis as well especially when Serena is playing well. Have fun and don't disappoint when the kiss cam is on you. Anyway, while in Europe take a short plane ride to the World Cup in Russia. That should be fun.

iluvmysephia1

From where I sit, it seems you are in “paralysis by analysis” mode on what you want, how you want to buy it and how to sell it to your wife.

Me (one who is divorced, BTW)? I feel if you’re the bread winner and the only one driving the car (I thought I remembered you mentioning your wife doesn’t drive), you choose when and what to buy. Simple as that. Drawing down on a pension before you retire isn’t something I’d want to do. Not sure what the advantage is by doing that.

Bottom line, I think until you make your own decision about what to buy, and how to buy it, when you buy it, you’re sorta spinning your wheels but going nowhere.

Good luck!!!!!

graphicguy - I can't find anything wrong with your analysis of my "paralysis by analysis" description of what's going on with me and cars. Pretty much spot on - and, it's her reaction to what I try and do that I'm trying to "think out". But I agree with you, and I could see many people agreeing with us, the breadwinner and sole driver (yes GG she doesn't drive) is the one who determines what ta buy and when ta buy it, too.

Her idea was ta start getting my Boeing pension benefits at age 60 instead of age 62 or 65 - so her idea is to start collecting them monthly at age 60 and save most of that money up and just buy a 2017 Nissan Sentra S 6-speed stick or a cherry Ford Focus ST (OK I added the car examples completely - she isn't even aware of the ones I want and like, she doesn't really care) in cash. This would be with either 2 or 5 years left ta work my Allied Healthcare job before I retire. It's lookin' like 65 is the age I'm gonna have ta go to so our medical insurance continues to be covered. Otherwise, I'd retire at age 62.

I think you have a pretty good grip on my situation, graphicguy, and what's running through my mind. The rest of ya'll - the Edmunds Car Country Club (ECCC) are also right on with your analysis as far as risky car purchase business. I get what you're saying completely and I appreciate your input.

I have been watching some great YouTube reviews of the 2013 Ford Focus ST and it does sound like Ford hit a home run like Ken Griffey, Jr., with the gold rocket. The car drives like a dream and, for a FWD car, handles like a Ken Norton champ, too. Now back to the YouTube videos. I've got one at Jay Leno's garage with one of the car's designers that's gonna provide some valuable input.

Don't worry - remember my situation here. I won't be doing anything too goofy - somewhat goofy, oh sure. But nothing outta the park goofy. Unless, of course...j/k.

driver100

Imid...tennis and vacation in the same sentence sounds about as good as you can get.
Bwia.......Good idea.....should have tacked on a World Cup final July 15th. Now that would be some vacation!

cdnpinhead

driver100 said:

I know a lot of the fans will miss me and my witty informative posts. . .

Be sure to have a group picture taken of yourself while you're over there.

laurasdada

Driver, have a ball! I hope the trip is aces, that you and the missus love it!

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

Probably when they convert to the new process, combining forums access with insider access

That's right. Once we transition over to that login system that should improve things quite a bit.

driver100

Thanks guys.
I do have a picture with me standing next to Djokavich.......he is just a cardboard cut out, but it looks pretty real.
I.m not taking any with shirts horizontal stripes.

jmonroe

cdnpinhead said:

driver100 said:

I know a lot of the fans will miss me and my witty informative posts. . .

Be sure to have a group picture taken of yourself while you're over there.

And please, no striped shirts. A plain white V-neck skivvy is fine but NO STRIPES. :@

jmonroe

jmonroe

driver100 said:

Thanks guys.
I do have a picture with me standing next to Djokavich.......he is just a cardboard cut out, but it looks pretty real.
I.m not taking any with shirts horizontal stripes.

Didn't get to this post before I posted the one directly below your original post.

You know the price you will pay if you don't heed my warning in my post directly above this one.

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1

Hey, jmonroe, do ya think driver100 would even post a picture of himself in England with a horizontally-striped t-shirt on? 

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1 said:

Hey, jmonroe, do ya think driver100 would even post a picture of himself in England with a horizontally-striped t-shirt on? 

Maybe we should get him hooked up to the Edmunds Intelligence Monitor. Anyone giving odds on what it says?

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1

I'm not touching that one, jmonroe! Let's not encourage him any more than necessary, though.

sda

driver100 said:

No pickleball this time Houdini. They had world championships in Florida last month.

Imid, there is a match coming up in Toronto early August. After that Cinncinatti and New York....one day, but, there is only one Wimbledon.

Also, we like to combine a vacation trip with a tennis match. Next year we are planning a trip to see a match in Madrid in May. I only go to places with a roof...........if I am going that far I don't want to be rained out.

GG, Thanks for the good wishes.

When we lived in England, dad's office was located in Wimbledon and I often transferred train to tube in Wimbledon. Enjoy!

iluvmysephia1

That is quite cool, sda. Nice opportunity for you!

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Question:

What heat related condition could cause a car to stall on a hot day? I thought vapor lock went away with the introduction of fuel injection. Happened to son's car. Started right back up and gave no further problem. Temps were in the 90s.

What car and what was he doing when the car stalled?

2005 Sable with the Duratech V6. About 75k miles.

He had just dropped off a rider and turned around in her driveway. As he started moving forward he said it just stalled. Started right up and dove for hours problem free for the rest of the day. Temp gauge read normal.

Pretty old car at this point. Will just have to see if it happens again. Could be one of a hundred possibilities, some of which may never happen again (water in fuel, for example). At this age, however, hopefully much maintenance has been done such as full tuneup including fuel filter, plugs, etc.

Sometime crank and cam sensors can get nervous when they warm up. I'd certainly scan for a code.

I am not mechanically inclined but I think it happened because it is a Ford.

I had a Fusion rental almost 2 years ago and it cut out on me and died on a hill. Had to restart it once, and it chugged with half power, then I restarted again came back. Enterprise said it had happened before and it would be going back to Ford......so, I think it is normal.

Wow, that's a low blow, did the fireworks across Lake Ontario keep you awake last night?

We took the car to the auto store to test the battery and it came back as needing a charge. Went home and put the charger on it. Took only a few minutes to read full charge which made me think the battery was bad and wouldn't take the charge.

Back to the auto store and another test. Battery showed normal and a further scan said alternator was ok. The machine suggested it was a short to or a bad starter. Of course my regular mechanic is on vacation and my fall back guy is booked solid until Monday. I'd rather push the car than take it to the tire store clip joint.

We'll see what happens next week

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

had to do an unexpected assembly job today. Our old gas grill crapped out (it was an inexpensive Driver rationalization special), with burners rotting out, so went to the store to get a new one. All set up ready to go, so paid and wheeled it out to the car. Wrestled it into the back of the RDX, and discovered it was about 2" too wide to really fit. So decided to take on in the box instead of trying to half take it apart out in the parking lot to get it to fit. after an hour+ interpreting the hieroglyphic instructions with parts strewn all over the kitchen floor, got is assembled and working. Vastly better performance at least. And nothing blew up!

really thinking that a small PU is a wonderful spare car if you have a nice other one for regular duty.

I could loan you a hooptie van except on Saturday when it's used to haul veggies to market.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

I try to be more disciplined....not saying I am right. Just works for me.
I think if you want something, you don't absolutely need, and you have to stretch your budget a bit, you should do something to demonstrate you will do something extra to get it.
If you want a new car....and you are under water on your current car....then manipulating the loan time can be a solution....but, not a great one......and $15000, to get a car with 5 years of miles on it....doesn't seem to be the best solution.....but, that is just me.

If for some reason, the car isn't as good as you think it is...you will be way under water.

I'm a pessimist so I always calculate from a worse case senario. Ask yourself what would happen if the Ford blows up a week after you buy it. How would that effect your finances?

If your budget could withstand that (and you wife doesn't make you sleep in the garage) then go for it. You can't take your money to the cemetery in a U-Haul.

andres3

I found this article about driver psychology a bit naive, but still entertaining and amusing.

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/05/the-highway-lane-next-to-yours-isnt-really-moving-any-faster/394079/

They miss the fundamental truth of humans and driving. 99% of us want to simply drive unimpeded at our preferred speed.

A slow poke will be just as annoyed by a SLOWER POKE in the passing lane as a speed demon gets annoyed at a mild speeder that stubbornly impedes the passing lane. They will both pass on the right if forced to do so. They behave exactly the same when impeded.

Congestion and traffic causes everyone to drive below their preferred speed; so of course they try to get ahead of the pack to find that illusive open highway of unimpeded progress!!!!

I think it is a small percentage of the population that actually feels as though their manhood shrinks 1 millimeter every time they are passed on the highway, while growing their manhood 1 MM every time they pass someone. I don't feel that way. I know some left lane campers might, but it has to be a rather small percentage. The fundamental factor is what I state above.

imidazol97

I've already done my own studies on the psychology of the left lane dominators and left lane pokers. Over years.

Ohio has gone to adjustable speed limits because they found that when limits are reduced in congested areas, the number of cars flowing through increases. The study talks about the percentage of cars that within 10 mph of each other in speed and other things. If I see it again, I'll link it. Try looking for Ohio adjustable speed limits.

But that agrees with my observations. The higher the frictional speed difference between those in the right lane, usually trucks at 60-63, and those in the left whether second or third lane, the more problems occur causing a lowering in the number of cars using the left most lane because of the aggressive behavior of a part of the speeders who are there. Add to that the movement in and out of cars into one lane to the right to make room for the speeders who are tailgating, and that reduces the overall flow of vehicles.