Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:

henryn said:

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:

I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?

The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

IsellHondas, I think you’re missing the point here. If you don’t want to “give a price”, then fine, don’t give the price. But do NOT put up a web site with a hot button that says “Click here for your special E-Price”. If that button does not give a price, then your web site is a lie. And I don’t like liars, and I don’t want to do business with liars. (No, not you, Isell, the dealers with the totally bogus web sites).

As to your reasoning for not giving a “hard number to shop”, the last two new vehicles that I purchased were bought from dealers who posted hard numbers on their web site. Nothing about “Click here for your special E-Price”, rather a firm price of $26,100 and a link to the PDF of the actual window sticker. (That was the Ford dealer). The one before that (Chevrolet) also had a hard price, which they eventually honored after some argument about the various incentives. But Chevy dealers don’t have a link to the PDF of the window sticker, I wish they would emulate Ford and start doing that.

Yeah, that's what makes me mad- Don't promise you will give me a "Special E Price!" when you have no intention of providing one.

Yeah, that's what makes me mad- Don't promise you will give me a "Special E Price!" when you have no intention of providing one

I totally agree!

Me too!

Once the lies start there won't be an end to it. If they start off dishonest it ain't going to get any better going forward.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

I complained about the folks driving in the store the same as they did in the parking lot. She grew up in Florida. I mentioned sink holes, hurricanes and tornadoes. She likes the snow.


Only good thing is the snow is to be heavier in the counties between Dayton and Cincinnati--sorry GG. :grin

I would prefer to take my chances with sink holes, hurricanes and tornadoes, which only affect a fraction of a percent of the population of Florida in a year. Snow affects 100% of the population and causes many more accidents. And, in the meantime I can go out and get groceries and there is almost never a stampede to load up. It only reached 72 today, but, I'll take that over snow anytime.

henryn

http://newsok.com/millennials-put-brakes-on-the-car-culture/article/feed/779313

Yet another article bemoaning the fact that millennials are not buying cars, nor even bothering to get a drivers license.

I find the whole thing very strange, but it is what it is.

venture

henryn said:

http://newsok.com/millennials-put-brakes-on-the-car-culture/article/feed/779313

Yet another article bemoaning the fact that millennials are not buying cars, nor even bothering to get a drivers license.

I find the whole thing very strange, but it is what it is.

Yep. My son and his wife live in Baltimore and he mentioned that many of their friends don't have a car for one reason or another. Some are just not interested and others, just starting out, don't have the money for a car. He and his wife are fortunate that they are both doing well financially and each of them have a car.

He also said that many of his friends, although not really able to afford, or just don't want to own a car, have no problem sitting in a bar and drinking craft brews at $8 - $10 a bottle.

abacomike

henryn said:

http://newsok.com/millennials-put-brakes-on-the-car-culture/article/feed/779313 Yet another article bemoaning the fact that millennials are not buying cars, nor even bothering to get a drivers license. I find the whole thing very strange, but it is what it is.

Millennials "are" buying cars, however the average driver today keeps a car longer than when we were twenty-thirty-somethings.  Cars are expensive when you consider the total cost of owning a car.  It's not just the amount you pay for the car (which has been increasing) but you must add to that the cost of insurance, maintenance, fees, gasoline (until very recently) and in city areas, the cost of parking/storing the car as well as tolls for road usage.  

The automakers sold about 16.7 million cars last year.  So there certainly has not been a decrease in buying - quite the opposite.

I believe this decrease in Millenials buying cars is merely temporary.  Once the economy fully recovers (whenever that will be) more houses will be built and sold causing a need for more cars to commute from suburbs to where the jobs are.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

<
I would prefer to take my chances with sink holes, hurricanes and tornadoes, which only affect a fraction of a percent of the population of Florida in a year.

She enjoyed the hurricanes, actually enjoyed the parties that people gave during same. Of course, some enjoy the snow. That's me as long as I don't have to go somewhere when the idiot drivers are on the road. Many don't understand the physics of driving in low friction situations, nor do they understand the relative slickness of snow/ice related to the temperature. Driving on an inch of packed snow in the tracks at 30 deg F can be much more harrowing than driving on 6 inches of snow at 10 deg F.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

< I would prefer to take my chances with sink holes, hurricanes and tornadoes, which only affect a fraction of a percent of the population of Florida in a year.

She enjoyed the hurricanes, actually enjoyed the parties that people gave during same. Of course, some enjoy the snow. That's me as long as I don't have to go somewhere when the idiot drivers are on the road. Many don't understand the physics of driving in low friction situations, nor do they understand the relative slickness of snow/ice related to the temperature. Driving on an inch of packed snow in the tracks at 30 deg F can be much more harrowing than driving on 6 inches of snow at 10 deg F.

You should try driving in the rain down here when the retirees hit the road.  We get quite a bit of flash flooding from thunderstorms that drop 2-3 inches of rain an hour.  Many of the older drivers can't see the flooding on the right side of the roads and end up on the shoulders and lose control of their cars.

It's no picnic driving up north in snow and ice or down here in thunderstorms with all the flash floods we get.  Let's face it, one should not drive in either situation unless it's essential.

abacomike

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift!  He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that.  He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's.  Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer.  They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists.  This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported.  Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.

roadburner

Great news!!!

thebean

That's so wonderful to hear, Mike.  All the prayers from the folks here surely made a huge difference!  Happy New Year to you and your family.

robr2

abacomike said:

I believe this decrease in Millenials buying cars is merely temporary.  Once the economy fully recovers (whenever that will be) more houses will be built and sold causing a need for more cars to commute from suburbs to where the jobs are.

But here's the rub. Millenials aren't interested in living in the suburbs. They want to live in the city centers, walk or use transit to get to work, and have all the conveniences of shopping, culture, and recreation without having to own a car.

In this area, job growth is in Boston and the surrounding cities. All the bio-tech and high tech is pretty much based in Cambridge. South Boston is touted as the "Innovation District." Companies are leaving the suburbs to get into the city because that's where the new workforce lives or as in my suburban town, they are banding together to pay for a private hourly bus service to/from between my suburb and the city in order to get the engineers, physicists, and researchers that they need.

henryn

abacomike said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift!  He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that.  He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's.  Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer.  They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists.  This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported.  Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.

Truly wonderful news, Mike! All of the best to you and your family.

venture

abacomike said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift!  He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that.  He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's.  Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer.  They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists.  This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported.  Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.

Great news Mike.

jwilliams2

abacomike said:


Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI. What a great Christmas gift! He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that. He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's. Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer. They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists. This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported. Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.


Mike, that is fantastic news! Very happy for you and your son.

graphicguy

Mike...great to hear!

oldbearcat

abacomike said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift!  He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that.  He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's.  Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer.  They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists.  This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported.  Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.

That's great news! I'm fighting colon cancer right now, and, hope I get good results too when all is said and done. I'm recuperating from the chemo and radiation treatment now, and, meet with surgeon on the 15th to schedule next step.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

abacomike

@oldbearcat‌ said:

"That's great news! I'm fighting colon cancer right now, and, hope I get good results too when all is said and done. I'm recuperating from the chemo and radiation treatment now, and, meet with surgeon on the 15th to schedule next step."

Keep fighting, oldbearcat!  5 months ago I thought all hope was lost and the prayers and hopes of all our friends here were heard.  Devine intervention!  I offer my prayers and hopes for your complete recovery.

Thank you and all my fellow posters for their kind words and expressions of support.

bwia

abacomike said:

@oldbearcat‌ said:

"That's great news! I'm fighting colon cancer right now, and, hope I get good results too when all is said and done. I'm recuperating from the chemo and radiation treatment now, and, meet with surgeon on the 15th to schedule next step."

Keep fighting, oldbearcat!  5 months ago I thought all hope was lost and the prayers and hopes of all our friends here were heard.  Devine intervention!  I offer my prayers and hopes for your complete recovery.

Thank you and all my fellow posters for their kind words and expressions of support.

Mike, my prayer group will be thrilled to hear such terrific news about your son Justin. God is good all of the time and all of the time God is good. 

Oldbearcat, hang in there, soon you'll be singing such good praises. Stay Blessed my friend. 

abacomike

bwia said:

abacomike said:

@oldbearcat‌ said:

"That's great news! I'm fighting colon cancer right now, and, hope I get good results too when all is said and done. I'm recuperating from the chemo and radiation treatment now, and, meet with surgeon on the 15th to schedule next step."

Keep fighting, oldbearcat!  5 months ago I thought all hope was lost and the prayers and hopes of all our friends here were heard.  Devine intervention!  I offer my prayers and hopes for your complete recovery.

Thank you and all my fellow posters for their kind words and expressions of support.

Mike, my prayer group will be thrilled to hear such terrific news about your son Justin. God is good all of the time and all of the time God is good. 

Oldbearcat, hang in there, soon you'll be singing such good praises. Stay Blessed my friend. 

Thank you bwia.

driver100

abacomike said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift! .

Wonderful news Mike!
It just shows....never give up hope!

robr2

Good to hear the positive Mike.

abacomike

driver100 said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift! .

Wonderful news Mike! It just shows....never give up hope!

Thanks, driver!

abacomike

robr2 said:

Good to hear the positive Mike.

Thanks, Robr! 

roadburner

oldbearcat said:

abacomike said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift!  He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that.  He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's.  Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer.  They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists.  This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported.  Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.

That's great news! I'm fighting colon cancer right now, and, hope I get good results too when all is said and done. I'm recuperating from the chemo and radiation treatment now, and, meet with surgeon on the 15th to schedule next step.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

I will add you to the prayer list, my friend!!!

fezo

Congratulations, Mike. What good news.

Oldbearcat - we'll get you added to the prayer lists. Anyone that has me on please continue. Still not out of the woods.

isellhondas

abacomike said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift!  He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that.  He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's.  Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer.  They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists.  This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported.  Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.

Great news! You made my day!

isellhondas

oldbearcat said:

abacomike said:

Got news from my son that the last MRI he had last week shows that the malignant tumor has dissipated and cannot be seen on the MRI.  What a great Christmas gift!  He has one more radiation treatment this Friday and after that, just checkups - 1st checkup in 3 months then every six months after that.  He has a full-body MRI in 2 weeks to develop a base for future MRI's.  Hopefully his white blood cell count will return to normal eventually.

You have no idea what a relief it is to know that your son won't die of brain cancer.  They caught it early enough, it would appear, and had good doctors and oncological radiologists.  This proton radiation is only successful in eliminating malignant tumors of the brain in a fraction of the cases reported.  Thank you, Lord, for your blessings.

That's great news! I'm fighting colon cancer right now, and, hope I get good results too when all is said and done. I'm recuperating from the chemo and radiation treatment now, and, meet with surgeon on the 15th to schedule next step.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

Oldbearcat...you can and WILL beat this! Prayers going out!

stickguy

Yup. Good news.

As to millenials, my SSS of 2 are both car obsessed. 23 yo son is jonesing to trade his Jetta for a GTI. And 19 yo in college misses her car. And lives to go test driving.

Apple, tree, etc.

graphicguy

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:

I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?

The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

isellhondas....I hate playing games at the dealership. I'll assume the ones I usually deal with hate them, too. That's why I deal with them.

I can see the other side of that coin.

When I was helping my wife buy her Accord, I did my usual research. Check with Edmunds, Truecar, KBB, etc to get a feel for what pricing those sights are seeing. Checked the stock levels of the car she wanted. Gave a peak at the "Prices Paid" forums here.

As usual, I was amazed at the histrionics some went through to try to match a price someone else said they paid (which may or may not have been true). Some were firing off emails to 10 dealers and bemoaning the fact some wouldn't even respond, and those that did respond really didn't give them a good deal.

The ones I still can't understand, were the people who were willing to go to a dealer who they admitted were shaky in their dealings with them, all with the hope they wouldn't get taken. Why do that? If you don't trust the dealer, why buy from them? Odds are pretty good you're going to get hoodwinked if they aren't trustworthy.

I should have known better, but I ventured into their waters a bit, outlining how I buy my cars. I was brow beat by the folks who wanted to spend time firing off emails, getting frustrated, going from dealership to dealership, and becoming even more frustrated.

I don't venture into many of those threads any more. It's an exercise in futility. Everyone knows more than the next guy. Few, if any, consider the entire deal (trade-in, ADM, doc fess, fine print, etc). All they see is the alleged negotiated price (which being fleeced in F&I or on their trade).

I know I'd be fired the first day on the job if I worked in a dealership.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

Today was a Grand Marquis/Crown Victoria day at Krogers. We have a chance of snow 1-5 inches overnight and my wife sent me to Krogers. I have not seen that many GMs and CVs in one place as with all the elderly people hurrying out after the snow possibility was raised from 1-3 to 3-6 inches.

There were several Cavaliers in good shape in that lot as well. Lots of Camrys.

People just stopped in the parking lanes to wait for a car to pull out somewhere so they could grab the parking place. I did not see any accidents amazingly. The cashier was laughing when I complained about the folks driving in the store the same as they did in the parking lot. She grew up in Florida. I mentioned sink holes, hurricanes and tornadoes. She likes the snow.

My wife owes me for getting her shopping list while she stayed home after her knee therapy session this morning.

Only good thing is the snow is to be heavier in the counties between Dayton and Cincinnati--sorry GG. :grin

BTW....the CTS's first foray into the white stuff. It is exemplary!

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

BTW....the CTS's first foray into the white stuff. It is exemplary!

I left mine at home today. Didn't want my first attempt to be during my commute. I'd rather drive it around near the house a bit first just in case its too much of a handful. The Fit, on the other hand, did great.

abacomike

fezo said:

Congratulations, Mike. What good news. Oldbearcat - we'll get you added to the prayer lists. Anyone that has me on please continue. Still not out of the woods.

Thanks, fezo!

abacomike

@isellhondas‌

Thanks, Isell!

Michaell

graphicguy said:

isellhondas said:

roadburner said:

I apologize for re-hashing this again, and let me state from the get-go that I agree with isell Re: not giving a number to shop- it's simply self defeating.

Now, having said that, in this digital age what REALLY yanks my chain are the dealer web sites which have a button that says: "Click here for your special E-Price!!!"
I have yet to get any sort of price after clicking that button. Instead, I get an e-mail from Joe Bag O' Doughnuts along the lines of "Hi, I'm Joe the internet manager. I understand you are interested in a 20XX XYZ ABC. When would it be convenient for you to stop by and look at it?"
So you don't want to give a number to shop; fine, I completely understand- but why run the risk of pi$$ing off potential customers by making an offer that you have no intention of honoring in the first place?

The trouble is, giving a customer a hard number to shop will almost always lose the sale.

Costco shoppers were a prime example of this. Using Costco's (strict) rules, we had to sit the customer down. Bring out the Costco book. Show them our invoice and give them the Costco price. Sometimes they would buy on the spot but often they would merrily jot the number down and be on their way.

So, I would say before they left.." Now, this is the Costco price...this is the MOST we can charge you...if you hear anything less, at least give us a chance to respond"

Sometimes they would but often when I called them to follow up in a couple of days I would learn they bought elsewhere. An "oh, you did?" call.

I don't miss the business but I do miss the great people and managers I worked with.

isellhondas....I hate playing games at the dealership. I'll assume the ones I usually deal with hate them, too. That's why I deal with them.

I can see the other side of that coin.

When I was helping my wife buy her Accord, I did my usual research. Check with Edmunds, Truecar, KBB, etc to get a feel for what pricing those sights are seeing. Checked the stock levels of the car she wanted. Gave a peak at the "Prices Paid" forums here.

As usual, I was amazed at the histrionics some went through to try to match a price someone else said they paid (which may or may not have been true). Some were firing off emails to 10 dealers and bemoaning the fact some wouldn't even respond, and those that did respond really didn't give them a good deal.

The ones I still can't understand, were the people who were willing to go to a dealer who they admitted were shaky in their dealings with them, all with the hope they wouldn't get taken. Why do that? If you don't trust the dealer, why buy from them? Odds are pretty good you're going to get hoodwinked if they aren't trustworthy.

I should have known better, but I ventured into their waters a bit, outlining how I buy my cars. I was brow beat by the folks who wanted to spend time firing off emails, getting frustrated, going from dealership to dealership, and becoming even more frustrated.

I don't venture into many of those threads any more. It's an exercise in futility. Everyone knows more than the next guy. Few, if any, consider the entire deal (trade-in, ADM, doc fess, fine print, etc). All they see is the alleged negotiated price (which being fleeced in F&I or on their trade).

I know I'd be fired the first day on the job if I worked in a dealership.

GG, now that I'm a host, I'm in the prices paid discussions all the time .. mostly trying to keep the peace. Had someone recently post about an experience buying an Acura. Agreed on a price, then dealer swapped out another vehicle (same colors, different VIN, older stock) and told the customer "we took such a skinny deal we figured we could make it back by delivering a vehicle that's been in stock longer".

Wow.

qbrozen

Hell, I'm not sure why that matters to either party. How did the buyer even know they swapped it?

To the customer: "you can take this silver on black 2015 TSX with 0 miles and perfect condition or THIS silver on black TSX with 0 miles in perfect condition." gee... choices.

To the dealer: Do dealer floorspace fees (or whatever they are called) go up exponentially the longer it sits? If not, what is the difference from their end?

ab348

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:

BTW....the CTS's first foray into the white stuff. It is exemplary!

I left mine at home today. Didn't want my first attempt to be during my commute. I'd rather drive it around near the house a bit first just in case its too much of a handful. The Fit, on the other hand, did great.

I have avoided it in the ATS so far. We had about 6" of snow on Sunday, but the temp shot up to around 50 overnight and we had some heavy rain so it all went away except for piles where people had cleared it. Then yesterday the temp dropped like a stone and it was very windy. Today it is miserably cold, around 0 F. Art least the sun is out. Not driving anywhere today but will need to tomorrow.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Hell, I'm not sure why that matters to either party. How did the buyer even know they swapped it?

To the customer: "you can take this silver on black 2015 TSX with 0 miles and perfect condition or THIS silver on black TSX with 0 miles in perfect condition." gee... choices.

To the dealer: Do dealer floorspace fees (or whatever they are called) go up exponentially the longer it sits? If not, what is the difference from their end?

There were two differences - the car they wanted had 17 miles and an inspection sticker of November; the car they wanted to give him had 76 miles and an inspection sticker dated July.

Not sure what the differences really are, but to the poster it was huge.

abacomike

qbrozen said:

Hell, I'm not sure why that matters to either party. How did the buyer even know they swapped it? To the customer: "you can take this silver on black 2015 TSX with 0 miles and perfect condition or THIS silver on black TSX with 0 miles in perfect condition." gee... choices. To the dealer: Do dealer floorspace fees (or whatever they are called) go up exponentially the longer it sits? If not, what is the difference from their end?

I think the real issue here is that the customer negotiated a deal on a car with one VIN# but the dealer made a unilateral decision to swap cars and wants to sell him a car with a different VIN#.  It's a "trust" issue, not so much a "product" issue.  I think I might be a bit upset too!  One car is older than another and has 100 miles on it.  It's not the car he negotiated for.

stever

I would have been upset too - thinking I was buying a particular car and then having the dealer try to switch it. Here's the link.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

BTW....the CTS's first foray into the white stuff. It is exemplary!

Great!

qbrozen

guess I'm just not that picky. I didn't even know how many miles my CTS had until I was signing the paperwork. Not that I had another choice of a different CTS Vsport. I remember back when we got my wife a Pacifica. We didn't even drive the model we took home. When it came down to it, after we took a test drive in, I believe a black one, she asked for a blue one. They had 2 blue ones equipped exactly the same. So we picked one and when we all jumped in to drive it back to the showroom area, the front windows go stuck in the down position. So we swapped to the other blue one. Didn't care one iota. My Mustang was the same thing. I drove a new premium model and a used base model. Made the deal and they had to swap in a new base model for me. I didn't drive that one until I was leaving the dealership in it.

Maybe its just because I know I won't have something forever and things like which month it was built in or 60 more miles on the odo means absolutely nothing in terms of the car's value down the line.

robr2

qbrozen said:

To the dealer: Do dealer floorspace fees (or whatever they are called) go up exponentially the longer it sits? If not, what is the difference from their end?

My understanding is that floor planning is the financing offered to the dealer by the manufacturer. Holdback is the amount that is built into the invoice of the car to cover that financing. If the car is not sold before the finance charges amount to more than holdback, then the dealer is now eating into gross profit to pay the interest,

Thus the need to get rid of an "older" car.

roadburner

My MS3 had been driven @100 miles- no big deal to me...

qbrozen

robr2 said:

My understanding is that floor planning is the financing offered to the dealer by the manufacturer. Holdback is the amount that is built into the invoice of the car to cover that financing. If the car is not sold before the finance charges amount to more than holdback, then the dealer is now eating into gross profit to pay the interest,

Thus the need to get rid of an "older" car.

And that sounds right to me... but why would finance charges on one be more than another? In other words, I can lose $10 a day on this silver/black TSX or $10 a day on THIS silver/black TSX. Its still $10 a day (or whatever the number is).

stever

All things being equal I want to buy the car I looked at, the one with the lowest miles and the one with the newest date of manufacturer (to take advantage of any rolling improvements on the assembly line).

I don't want the dealer playing hide the ball by "swapping" out "my" car without telling me. What else are they doing in the back room that I may not discover weeks or months down the road? If they want to give me a different car, let me know and let me decide whether to go along.

I also don't like that the dealer can repair transport damages without having to disclose that fact in most states (and the damage amount may not be limited, or the limit may be high, like $6,000). But that's another subject.

nyccarguy

To me, the car itself matter much more than the deal (Craig said way back when that the next day, week, month, year it really doesn't matter how much you paid for the car but are you happy with it?). Now I'm obviously not going to over pay for whatever car I'm interested in. I usually end up shopping 2 -3 dealers for the sole fact that there is SO much competition out there. Sometimes you have to buy from one particular dealer due to inventory constraints.

When I bought my Subaru, I test drove the car at one dealer and got prices via email from 2 others. My local dealer came in at one price, the "#1 volume dealer" about 1/2 hour away from me had pretty much the same price as the local dealer, and the dealer where I test drove the car was a bit higher. I really liked the salesman I bought the car from. He was knowledgeable, professional, and very down to earth. I asked him if he could do any better on the price is there some sort of costco or AAA price? AAA gets you $300 off. He now had the cheapest price by $100. Here's my credit card deposit. Best part is that I told him I wanted a Lapis Blue Legacy Premium 2.5i - nothing else. That's what I negotiated the price for. They located a car for me with a few hundred worth of port accessories (all weather mats, auto dimming mirror, trunk net, rear bumper applique) and didn't charge me a penny more. A little over 3 months and 5K miles later I'm happy with the car.

I bought my Pilot right after the Japanese Tsunami in 2011. I wanted one with Nav and the Nav systems were in short supply, so I paid a few hundred over invoice for an SUV that normally sells way below invoice. May will be 4 years and it has suited our family of 5 perfectly (except my wife really wants a power lift gate)!

I bought my TSX on the last day of cash for clunkers back in 2009 for $1000 under sticker for a car that usually sells for well under invoice price. I had to travel to Long Island about an hour away from my house because they were the only Acura dealer that had a TSX with a black interior and the Tech pkg that accepted my clunker as a trade.

I gave my local BMW dealer a shot when trading in my TSX to lease the 328xi. They had the same price as the dealer near my parents' house (about 45 minutes away). The lease prices were almost exactly the same. One dealer gave me $3K more for my trade.

driver100

We took the Passat in for it's 2nd free oil change and service this morning. The dealer also sells BMWs so I looked around at the bmws, and these were my impressions;

*The 4 Series Gran Coupe which most people didn't like the looks of looks much better in real life. However, I was surprised at how small the back window is. It looks huge but it has a black border all around it, about 4 in wide on each side, about 8 inches down from the top, and about the same from the bottom. By the time you get head rests in there you are looking out of a tiny hole.









I checked out a BMW 6 Series Gran Coupe 4 door. The kind with the squished roof. Looks beautiful but almost no vision to the rear, past the head rests, and the side windows are so narrow they hardly allow you to see to the sides. Also, the narrow slit windows made it claustrophobic inside.


If the interior was black with tinted windows it would be pretty dismal inside.

dino001

nyccarguy said:

I asked him if he could do any better on the price is there some sort of costco or AAA price? AAA gets you $300 off.

It's after the fact and you still got a good price. For the reference, absolutely best Subaru deals you can get are those when you join one of the organizations that Subaru supports (there is a list somewhere). The closest to my heart was IMBA (International Mountain Biking Association). You need to be a member for 6 months prior the purchase. The deal is a killer - IIRC, something like 2% below invoice, of course all incentives including dealer's cash, if applicable. I bought STI that way in 2008. After the oil crash and Great Recession setting in, Subaru was blowing out the STIs by giving 0% financing AND up to $5K (tiered depending on dealer's volume) dealer incentives. My dealer, highest volume in Southeast did not qualify for maximum tier (I think it was only a handful of dealers in the country getting those 5 grand), but I got the second best tier, I think it was $3500. The deal was ridiculous - 36+ grand sticker came to 30 grand or so price plus the 0%. Total with taxes was $33K. I sold it three years later for 9 grand less - 3 thousand per year depreciation, as supply of WRX and STI models was super tight due to the tsunami. It was a deal of the lifetime, as far as Subarus are concern.

abacomike

driver100 said:

We took the Passat in for it's 2nd free oil change and service this morning. The dealer also sells BMWs so I looked around at the bmws, and these were my impressions; *The 4 Series Gran Coupe which most people didn't like the looks of looks much better in real life. However, I was surprised at how small the back window is. It looks huge but it has a black border all around it, about 4 in wide on each side, about 8 inches down from the top, and about the same from the bottom. By the time you get head rests in there you are looking out of a tiny hole. I checked out a BMW 6 Series Gran Coupe 4 door. The kind with the squished roof. Looks beautiful but almost no vision to the rear, past the head rests, and the side windows are so narrow they hardly allow you to see to the sides. Also, the narrow slit windows made it claustrophobic inside. If the interior was black with tinted windows it would be pretty dismal inside.

The 6 Series Grand Coupe is almost identical to the CLS in terms of poor side and rear view visibility

robr2

qbrozen said:

robr2 said:

My understanding is that floor planning is the financing offered to the dealer by the manufacturer. Holdback is the amount that is built into the invoice of the car to cover that financing. If the car is not sold before the finance charges amount to more than holdback, then the dealer is now eating into gross profit to pay the interest,

Thus the need to get rid of an "older" car.

And that sounds right to me... but why would finance charges on one be more than another? In other words, I can lose $10 a day on this silver/black TSX or $10 a day on THIS silver/black TSX. Its still $10 a day (or whatever the number is).

The finance charges aren't any more on one or the other. The older one may have accrued more interest than the holdback and such it's losing money everyday it sits on the lot. The newer one may have a few more weeks before it becomes a dog.