Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

The silver cars interior is much sharper looking. Anxiously awaiting driving impressions. I’m sure it is fast with massive torque.

abacomike

henryn said:

Any of you dealer guys know about this?

Are there any "dealer guys" left on Edmunds, let alone on this board? We have some has-beens and a variety of wanna-bees, but I'm not aware of any bona-fide sales people or other representatives actually employed by a car company or sales store. Maybe I've missed something. Mostly I think everyone on here is drinking everyone else's bathwater.

Someone is having a really bad day.

I’ve been following cdnpinhead’s posts for years now and he has never disappointed me when it comes to his “POSTINGS IN CODE”!  With cdnpinhead, one has to carefully “decode” his posts - not always, but most of the time.  His wry sense of humor is always cleverly disguised using language that is sophisticated and not easily deciphered.  But once you have decrypted enough of his posts, the decoding process is much less complicated.

I am a “has-been” using cdnpinhead’s code for X-car salesman and sales manager.  I empart knowledge and expertise based upon many years in the “crux” of new car sales from many perspectives - but, alas, I have nothing new to report, but my “bath water” is getting darker and darker and cdnpinhead’s take on that is the posters here prefer “clean” bath water and are tired of absorbing “cliche and passé” expertise.

He is correct in that there is but one poster on here that is still in the car sales “arena” - fresh and clean bath water as opposed to isellhondas or abacomike’s old, stale and “dirty” bath water.  Kudos, cdnpinhead, for your cryptic posts! 

graphicguy

I LOVED the red interior and the aluminum dash/console (much better than the shiny black that was in the showroom).

While Chris looked for the keys to the red one, only to come back 20 minutes later to tell me it needed to go through PDI first, he wanted to know if I wanted to drive the grey one instead. I almost turned him down, as this was turning into a whole hour visit when I wasn’t planning on staying more than 15-20 minutes for a tire kicking session.

I did not like the grey one’s exterior. It had clear coat, but it reminded me too much of an industrial cinder block color. Red interior I liked. The Sales Manager put on after market wheels, a tacky (actually looked tacked on) whimpy rear spoiler, and some other unnecessary add ons to justify a $4K ADM (which we all despise). It had 4,500 miles on it so someone had been driving it, but it still had the MSRP sticker and Chris said it was “new”. When will the dealers ever learn. Not sure what they thought about the add ones, but I get the distinct impression that the people who came to their Kia store weren’t targets for $50K+ automobiles, which probably explained why they had to add on so much to the car. Still, if it had 4,500 miles on it, that means it’s been around and no one bit on it.

But, it’s just a test drive, so sure....let’s go.

First impressions? This thing was fast. I’m thinking mid 4s 0-60 and running 12s in the ¼ according to my unofficial “buttometer”. And, I didn’t have to try too hard to do that. Get the revs up a little and slip off the brake while mashing the gas. It had just the faintest hint of turbo lag, but nothing I would consider the slightest detriment.

The trans was spot on. Shifts were done quickly, positively, up and down. Trans was willing to downshift without hesitation when you called for it. I don’t think it is a dual clutch (Chris didn’t know....probably what a dual clutch was) but if it’s not, it really doesn’t need to be. Tried the paddle shifters. Not much to say. They worked the way they’re supposed to. But, I wouldn’t bother with them. This has a seriously good automatic.

Seats, although well bolstered, were as comfortable as those in my TLX (which I dearly love). I did raise the seat a bit to compensate for the low floor pan, but that was easy. They were also heated and cooled.

Brakes (Brembos) were positive feeling and brought you done from speed right now. This car needs those kinds of brakes. While I don’t modulate brakes much these days given ABS, these were easy to feather as I probably scared Chris more than once getting up to speed and hitting some curves.

It stayed level for the most part in spirited driving. The limits come up quick and the suspension gets a little confused if you’re on it, driving near where you might scare yourself. Steering gets a little twitchy taking corners at “I’m going way too fast for this curve” speed. Not many of us do that, though. This is not a track car, regardless of how fast it is. But, driving it aggressively, on regular roads, it will be really good to you.

The one I was driving was the AWD version. Not sure if the RWD version has a limited slip differential, but it better. The one I drove put the power down well.....no drama, no slip, no squeal.....just speed and gobs of torque, for just about anywhere on the rev range.

Not sure if it is one of those cars that pipes in engine sounds through the stereo, but it sounded good....even upon start up. Chris started it up while I was standing behind the car and reved it a couple of times. I really don’t care what a car sounds like outside, when I’m inside, but this one had a bit of a snarl to it.

Surprisingly, it rode quite well. It’s a bigger car. My TLX, which is heavy, too....feels lighter on its feet. My Acura has active, mechanical torque vectoring, which really makes my car feel confident. On turns where the Stinger feels twitchy, my TLX doesn’t even break a sweat. Stinger is a firm ride, but compliant as well. It would be as good of a long distance tourer and it is in town and in spirited driving. Again it reminds me a lot of my TLX.

While not as quiet as my TLX on the interstate, the Stinger is a quiet car.

The stereo isn’t as good as the one in my TLX (which to me is still the best I’ve heard), but it’s not a slouch, either.

The GT2 was loaded, as I mentioned. Kia did a good job on the “auto engine start/stop” feature.....the best I’ve experienced on any car and was barely perceptible. Safety tech is similar to my TLX.....auto lane keep, laser cruise, auto emergency braking, rear back up camera. It had Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.

Body seams were tight and consistent. Interior was tight. It drove and rode with a sense of high rigidity.

Steering felt a bit light compared to my TLX. It wasn’t objectionable, though.

Even in sport mode, nothing felt too hard....not the ride, not the steering, not the handling. Chris said it has continuously adjustable shocks (assuming similar to magna- ride). They did a good job tuning those.

It had LEDs for headlights and taillights and the ever so popular red LEDs running through the interior. Pedals were aluminum. Finding a good driving position was easy. And again, it was comfortable.

abacomike

bwia said:

Wow! what a sharp looking car and great pics as well. It's pure eye candy and looks a winner. I was watching a video on South Korea and they said that 76% of that market is dominated by Hyundai/Kia. And they produce some stunningly elegant sports cars for the youth market. Too bad these cuties are not exported...yet.

Exterior styling is important in order to attract consumers to a particular vehicle.  If you can’t attract a consumer to your vehicle, there’s no chance of getting him to open the door and sit in the driver’s seat, let alone take the car for a demo drive!

But just as important are the excitement of the interior ergonomics and exquisite arrangement of the dash and knobs and buttons, not to mention the look (and smell) of the seats and their comfort.  To me, the interior of the car is what finally sells me on it. The “feel” and “sensitivity” to the touch of the interior ambiance gets me every time (as most of you already know).  

We spend less than 1% of our post-purchase interaction with our cars on the exterior and 99% of the time inside the car.  So the interior has to be perfect to motivate our love for our cars and SUV’s.

graphicguy

Final thoughts....I do think the Stinger competes with the likes of a 3/440i, the Q50 Red, Lexus ES/GS F Sport, Acura TLX ASpec, Mercedes AMG C43, Audi S4.

My TLX won’t keep up with it from a straight line performance, but it will hang with it through the turns. Haven’t driven a 3 series for a while, and certainly not the redesigned ‘19s. But, even there, given the price points, I think the Stinger GT would compare well.

All the rest, they may be a bit better here or there, but overall, the Stinger is really quite a car. I’d seriously consider buying one once I’m back in the market.

Kia’s problem, as I mentioned, trying to sell a $50K car to an audience who traditionally is looking for “good and cheap”. I’m not their target demographic. But, if they can find a way to get more of our ilk in their showroom, and they clean up the “hey......you buying a car today” sort of vibe, they can sell these.

So, I wasn’t looking for numbers, but they certainly wanted to entice me. Understand, I wasn’t looking to buy, which I told Chris and his sales manager on multiple occasions, they wanted me to know it’s the end of the month, and they’re “dealing”.

So, if anyone’s looking, I have this on paper. This is strictly for 2018s, as the Sales Manager said he didn’t have an incentives on 2019s.

-Red over black Stinger GT2 MSRP (with Destination)-$52,795
-Dealer price-$48,574
-less Conquest rebate-$3,000 (for owning an Acura, but I’m sure any car, other than a Kia would qualify)
-less Kia finance rebate (using 2.9% APR from Kia-$2,000)
-Kia to dealer end of year “trunk money”, which sales manager would include $2,000

Total without tax, license and title (we didn’t even talk about the proverbial doc fee)
-$41,574


Other possible discounts....

Military discount-$400

This next one is a biggie.....if you lease, instead of purchase, Kia will throw $2,921 at a lease deal (but you add the $2K finance cash back into it).

Lease price is $40,653.

Personally, for that kind of performance, with those looks, that equipment level, nothing can touch it.

As you can tell, I was impressed.

cdnpinhead

boomchek said:

I may be one of a few that's here that works in the car business. Currently I'm a Sales Manager at a Honda dealer. Already 15 years in the car business since I started in December of 2003, about the same time I joined Edmunds forums

Good point -- I forgot about you. Welcome back, by the way. I think you're it, though.

carnaught

@graphicguy, thanks for the pics and the great review. As I suspected, they’ll have to discount the car considerably, not because it’s bad, but because it’s a Kia.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

cdnpinhead said:

Mostly I think everyone on here is drinking everyone else's bathwater.

Ew! I have no clue what that statement means, but it is a disgusting image.

That expression comes from the CIA, and means that a person, or agency, starts to believe its own propaganda that it originally put out to fool someone else. Not sure how it applies here, either.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

bwia said:

Wow! what a sharp looking car and great pics as well. It's pure eye candy and looks a winner. I was watching a video on South Korea and they said that 76% of that market is dominated by Hyundai/Kia. And they produce some stunningly elegant sports cars for the youth market. Too bad these cuties are not exported...yet.

Exterior styling is important in order to attract consumers to a particular vehicle.  If you can’t attract a consumer to your vehicle, there’s no chance of getting him to open the door and sit in the driver’s seat, let alone take the car for a demo drive!

But just as important are the excitement of the interior ergonomics and exquisite arrangement of the dash and knobs and buttons, not to mention the look (and smell) of the seats and their comfort.  To me, the interior of the car is what finally sells me on it. The “feel” and “sensitivity” to the touch of the interior ambiance gets me every time (as most of you already know).  

We spend less than 1% of our post-purchase interaction with our cars on the exterior and 99% of the time inside the car.  So the interior has to be perfect to motivate our love for our cars and SUV’s.

I hate to be negative but those dash vents are the same as on the Toyota Corolla. Maybe they both source from the same supplier.

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

Final thoughts....I do think the Stinger competes with the likes of a 3/440i, the Q50 Red, Lexus ES/GS F Sport, Acura TLX ASpec, Mercedes AMG C43, Audi S4.

My TLX won’t keep up with it from a straight line performance, but it will hang with it through the turns. Haven’t driven a 3 series for a while, and certainly not the redesigned ‘19s. But, even there, given the price points, I think the Stinger GT would compare well.

All the rest, they may be a bit better here or there, but overall, the Stinger is really quite a car. I’d seriously consider buying one once I’m back in the market.

Kia’s problem, as I mentioned, trying to sell a $50K car to an audience who traditionally is looking for “good and cheap”. I’m not their target demographic. But, if they can find a way to get more of our ilk in their showroom, and they clean up the “hey......you buying a car today” sort of vibe, they can sell these.

So, I wasn’t looking for numbers, but they certainly wanted to entice me. Understand, I wasn’t looking to buy, which I told Chris and his sales manager on multiple occasions, they wanted me to know it’s the end of the month, and they’re “dealing”.

So, if anyone’s looking, I have this on paper. This is strictly for 2018s, as the Sales Manager said he didn’t have an incentives on 2019s.

-Red over black Stinger GT2 MSRP (with Destination)-$52,795
-Dealer price-$48,574
-less Conquest rebate-$3,000 (for owning an Acura, but I’m sure any car, other than a Kia would qualify)
-less Kia finance rebate (using 2.9% APR from Kia-$2,000)
-Kia to dealer end of year “trunk money”, which sales manager would include $2,000

Total without tax, license and title (we didn’t even talk about the proverbial doc fee)
-$41,574


Other possible discounts....

Military discount-$400

This next one is a biggie.....if you lease, instead of purchase, Kia will throw $2,921 at a lease deal (but you add the $2K finance cash back into it).

Lease price is $40,653.

Personally, for that kind of performance, with those looks, that equipment level, nothing can touch it.

As you can tell, I was impressed.

Deep discounts don't help much when the MF and residual are lousy.

cdnpinhead

abacomike said:

He is correct in that there is but one poster on here that is still in the car sales “arena” - fresh and clean bath water as opposed to isellhondas or abacomike’s old, stale and “dirty” bath water.  Kudos, cdnpinhead, for your cryptic posts! 

Thanks for your thoughtful response, AB. For what it's worth, drinking ones own bathwater is defined a number of ways, but this one seems closest to what I remember: The idiomatic phrase "drinking your own bathwater" means putting credence in information that has, in fact, come from yourself.

ab348

henryn said:

cdnpinhead said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Any of you dealer guys know about this?

Are there any "dealer guys" left on Edmunds, let alone on this board? We have some has-beens and a variety of wanna-bees, but I'm not aware of any bona-fide sales people or other representatives actually employed by a car company or sales store.

Maybe I've missed something.

Mostly I think everyone on here is drinking everyone else's bathwater.

Someone is having a really bad day.

But he was doing well enough to mix up a big batch of metaphors!

28firefighter

Nice writeup, @graphicguy - sounds like dealers are dancing to move cars. I suspect it is a tough tough sell, even if you can get a qualified buyer through the door.

driver100

Great review as always GG. You should consider a new career. Your review is concise and clear...you notice the things I want to know about.
At $52k, I am not so sure....at $40k or even $42k it is worth consideration.
The red interior sure looks nice. The vent on the side is a little overdone...less chrome may have looked better.
I could live with the dash but I have seen nicer.
I think Kia could have had a really hot seller, if they could have got the MSRP under $40k with a little less content.

qbrozen

driver100 said:

Great review as always GG. You should consider a new career. Your review is concise and clear...you notice the things I want to know about.
At $52k, I am not so sure....at $40k or even $42k it is worth consideration.
The red interior sure looks nice. The vent on the side is a little overdone...less chrome may have looked better.
I could live with the dash but I have seen nicer.
I think Kia could have had a really hot seller, if they could have got the MSRP under $40k with a little less content.

It starts well under $40k, in fact.

ab348

graphicguy said:

Doesn't look like it would be much fun getting it into slightly uphill driveway or parkade entrances, not to mention driving it in any kind of snow. That front end is right on the ground.

PF_Flyer

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

Doesn't look like it would be much fun getting it into slightly uphill driveway or parkade entrances, not to mention driving it in any kind of snow. That front end is right on the ground.

Do you want a car or practical??

graphicguy

Thanks, all! Just posted what I thought.

I agree that its biggest stumbling block is perception. I had to ask myself last night...”if I had walked into an Audi, BMW, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, etc dealership and test drove the same car with their badge, would I have bought it?” Know what? I couldn’t answer one way or the other. Maybe that’s telling in its own right.

That said, I’m at the stage of my career and life, status and outside impressions of me don’t hold much water anymore.

True...resale is going to be a problem with those types of discount, which means leasing will be, too.

5 year bumper-to-bumper, 10 year drivetrain, I think a Kia like the Stinger might make me give serious consideration.

And, the base and premium models with the 2.0T 4 cyl drivetrains do start under $40K.

I doubt very seriously they’re going to get a Mercedes, or BMW, or Audi, or Jag, etc owner into their showroom. But, they wrangled me to come in.

If they can get someone to come into their showroom and test drive one of these, without the typical “green pea” blather, they’d sell every one they could make.

graphicguy

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

Doesn't look like it would be much fun getting it into slightly uphill driveway or parkade entrances, not to mention driving it in any kind of snow. That front end is right on the ground.

Good point. I noticed that, too. In addition to the aftermarket wheels, on this car, the dealership lowered it, too. Plus, that parking space is actually a little driveway which slopes down in front. That makes it look even lower in the front. Still, these cars, even in AWD, have a low stance.

bwia

graphicguy said:

Final thoughts....I do think the Stinger competes with the likes of a 3/440i, the Q50 Red, Lexus ES/GS F Sport, Acura TLX ASpec, Mercedes AMG C43, Audi S4.

So, if anyone’s looking, I have this on paper. This is strictly for 2018s, as the Sales Manager said he didn’t have an incentives on 2019s.

-Red over black Stinger GT2 MSRP (with Destination)-$52,795
-Dealer price-$48,574
-less Conquest rebate-$3,000 (for owning an Acura, but I’m sure any car, other than a Kia would qualify)
-less Kia finance rebate (using 2.9% APR from Kia-$2,000)
-Kia to dealer end of year “trunk money”, which sales manager would include $2,000

Total without tax, license and title (we didn’t even talk about the proverbial doc fee)
-$41,574

Other possible discounts....
Military discount-$400
This next one is a biggie.....if you lease, instead of purchase, Kia will throw $2,921 at a lease deal (but you add the $2K finance cash back into it).
Lease price is $40,653.

Personally, for that kind of performance, with those looks, that equipment level, nothing can touch it.
As you can tell, I was impressed.

I was thinking, can you arrange lease financing on the high price GT2 Stinger, wait a couple months ownership then turn around and buy it outright for the residual value? If that is possible that would be a good way to beat the dealers at their own game. In other words you could have your cake and eat it too.

jmonroe1

abacomike said:

bwia said:

Wow! what a sharp looking car and great pics as well. It's pure eye candy and looks a winner. I was watching a video on South Korea and they said that 76% of that market is dominated by Hyundai/Kia. And they produce some stunningly elegant sports cars for the youth market. Too bad these cuties are not exported...yet.

Exterior styling is important in order to attract consumers to a particular vehicle.  If you can’t attract a consumer to your vehicle, there’s no chance of getting him to open the door and sit in the driver’s seat, let alone take the car for a demo drive!

But just as important are the excitement of the interior ergonomics and exquisite arrangement of the dash and knobs and buttons, not to mention the look (and smell) of the seats and their comfort.  To me, the interior of the car is what finally sells me on it. The “feel” and “sensitivity” to the touch of the interior ambiance gets me every time (as most of you already know).  

We spend less than 1% of our post-purchase interaction with our cars on the exterior and 99% of the time inside the car.  So the interior has to be perfect to motivate our love for our cars and SUV’s.

You have to wax your car more often.

As I've always said, "you don't REALLY KNOW your car until you wax it a couple times."

jmonroe

coldinohio

nice read on Kia-- can't believe still doing ADM on this car

my test drive was with new, to dealership but older, salesman; he grabbed keys and said lets go... did not care that I was just driving

at 30-35 K for the 2 L turbo, or 38-43K for the 3.3 L , they are probably competitive ; but at higher prices (which is what you see when you build on site), they may scare off some buyers...

helped my son in Texas buy a Subaru impreza 5dr this weekend; when we came up with our OTD price, I asked if there were any other cars ~26K he would consider...he said no...

but I think that thought process will be hard for Kia to overcome-- if they want 52K for GT2 stinger, what other cars can you get for that with 'better' service, reputation, resale, ....

Genesis may have a better car in the G70 if they can get their dealer network fixed....

GG: I drove the MB C coupe-- really nice and balance...

graphicguy

@bwia ....you and I think alike. I asked the sales manager the same thing about leasing to get the higher rebate and then paying off the lease a month or two later turning it into a purchase.

He said he didn’t know but would find out. I told him not to bother as I wasn’t going to buy last night, anyway.

jmonroe1

cdnpinhead said:

abacomike said:

He is correct in that there is but one poster on here that is still in the car sales “arena” - fresh and clean bath water as opposed to isellhondas or abacomike’s old, stale and “dirty” bath water.  Kudos, cdnpinhead, for your cryptic posts! 

Thanks for your thoughtful response, AB. For what it's worth, drinking ones own bathwater is defined a number of ways, but this one seems closest to what I remember: The idiomatic phrase "drinking your own bathwater" means putting credence in information that has, in fact, come from yourself.

Now I know why you can't trust some people to make a good cup of coffee.

jmonroe

boomchek

Stinger is a step up for Kia, but you're right. The buyers that shop the traditional German brands aren't going to switch to Kia even if value for the money is better, or in order to save $100/month.

So not sure who is buying them but I do see quite few on the road.

One thing I do notice on the higher end Hyundai and Kia products is that the details are lacking. They may be loaded with options but things like switchgear and materials feel cheap. It's like the difference between authentic Legos and knockoffs (MegaBloks, other "construction blocks"). Hard to tell the difference from afar but up close you can feel it.

Not sure if that's the case with the Stinger, I've yet to sit in one.

carnaught

My problem also with the Stinger is that it looks too much like the much less expensive Optima.

imidazol97

jmonroe1 said:

cdnpinhead said:

abacomike said:

He is correct in that there is but one poster on here that is still in the car sales “arena” - fresh and clean bath water as opposed to isellhondas or abacomike’s old, stale and “dirty” bath water.  Kudos, cdnpinhead, for your cryptic posts! 

Thanks for your thoughtful response, AB. For what it's worth, drinking ones own bathwater is defined a number of ways, but this one seems closest to what I remember: The idiomatic phrase "drinking your own bathwater" means putting credence in information that has, in fact, come from yourself

Now I know why you can't trust some people to make a good cup of coffee.
jmonroe

Speaking of bathwater..., did you know that almost 3% of the Antarctica ice is penguin urine?

The things you learn waiting at the BMV. LOL

imidazol97

I see several car haulers carrying 2 or 3 cars when driving on I75/I70 locally. Saw one today where the stick on label on the door said
"Wee Haul Ewe."

Now that's a business name to have.

stickguy

My grandparents lived down the road from a small place that raised sheep.

Was called ewe turn farm.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

Final thoughts....I do think the Stinger competes with the likes of a 3/440i, the Q50 Red, Lexus ES/GS F Sport, Acura TLX ASpec, Mercedes AMG C43, Audi S4.

My TLX won’t keep up with it from a straight line performance, but it will hang with it through the turns. Haven’t driven a 3 series for a while, and certainly not the redesigned ‘19s. But, even there, given the price points, I think the Stinger GT would compare well.

All the rest, they may be a bit better here or there, but overall, the Stinger is really quite a car. I’d seriously consider buying one once I’m back in the market.

Kia’s problem, as I mentioned, trying to sell a $50K car to an audience who traditionally is looking for “good and cheap”. I’m not their target demographic. But, if they can find a way to get more of our ilk in their showroom, and they clean up the “hey......you buying a car today” sort of vibe, they can sell these.

So, I wasn’t looking for numbers, but they certainly wanted to entice me. Understand, I wasn’t looking to buy, which I told Chris and his sales manager on multiple occasions, they wanted me to know it’s the end of the month, and they’re “dealing”.

So, if anyone’s looking, I have this on paper. This is strictly for 2018s, as the Sales Manager said he didn’t have an incentives on 2019s.

-Red over black Stinger GT2 MSRP (with Destination)-$52,795
-Dealer price-$48,574
-less Conquest rebate-$3,000 (for owning an Acura, but I’m sure any car, other than a Kia would qualify)
-less Kia finance rebate (using 2.9% APR from Kia-$2,000)
-Kia to dealer end of year “trunk money”, which sales manager would include $2,000

Total without tax, license and title (we didn’t even talk about the proverbial doc fee)
-$41,574


Other possible discounts....

Military discount-$400

This next one is a biggie.....if you lease, instead of purchase, Kia will throw $2,921 at a lease deal (but you add the $2K finance cash back into it).

Lease price is $40,653.

Personally, for that kind of performance, with those looks, that equipment level, nothing can touch it.

As you can tell, I was impressed.

It's a great car, and competitive in its segment- but I still think a 1 or 2 year old GT2 RWD(as God intended) would be a better deal.

It's much like the 2018 GC Trailhawk I found with the 3.0 turbo diesel and all the option packages; I can get it for $7,000 off sticker- but I can get a similarly equipped 2017 CPO for over $15,000 off of MSRP.

berri

did you know that almost 3% of the Antarctica ice is penguin urine?

So that's where Donovan's "Mellow Yellow" came from

jmonroe1

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe1 said:

cdnpinhead said:

abacomike said:

He is correct in that there is but one poster on here that is still in the car sales “arena” - fresh and clean bath water as opposed to isellhondas or abacomike’s old, stale and “dirty” bath water.  Kudos, cdnpinhead, for your cryptic posts! 

Thanks for your thoughtful response, AB. For what it's worth, drinking ones own bathwater is defined a number of ways, but this one seems closest to what I remember: The idiomatic phrase "drinking your own bathwater" means putting credence in information that has, in fact, come from yourself

Now I know why you can't trust some people to make a good cup of coffee.
jmonroe

Speaking of bathwater..., did you know that almost 3% of the Antarctica ice is penguin urine?

The things you learn waiting at the BMV. LOL

Any info about whale pee in the Atlantic and Pacific or do you have to register another car for the answer to that question?

jmonroe

graphicguy

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

Final thoughts....I do think the Stinger competes with the likes of a 3/440i, the Q50 Red, Lexus ES/GS F Sport, Acura TLX ASpec, Mercedes AMG C43, Audi S4.

My TLX won’t keep up with it from a straight line performance, but it will hang with it through the turns. Haven’t driven a 3 series for a while, and certainly not the redesigned ‘19s. But, even there, given the price points, I think the Stinger GT would compare well.

All the rest, they may be a bit better here or there, but overall, the Stinger is really quite a car. I’d seriously consider buying one once I’m back in the market.

Kia’s problem, as I mentioned, trying to sell a $50K car to an audience who traditionally is looking for “good and cheap”. I’m not their target demographic. But, if they can find a way to get more of our ilk in their showroom, and they clean up the “hey......you buying a car today” sort of vibe, they can sell these.

So, I wasn’t looking for numbers, but they certainly wanted to entice me. Understand, I wasn’t looking to buy, which I told Chris and his sales manager on multiple occasions, they wanted me to know it’s the end of the month, and they’re “dealing”.

So, if anyone’s looking, I have this on paper. This is strictly for 2018s, as the Sales Manager said he didn’t have an incentives on 2019s.

-Red over black Stinger GT2 MSRP (with Destination)-$52,795
-Dealer price-$48,574
-less Conquest rebate-$3,000 (for owning an Acura, but I’m sure any car, other than a Kia would qualify)
-less Kia finance rebate (using 2.9% APR from Kia-$2,000)
-Kia to dealer end of year “trunk money”, which sales manager would include $2,000

Total without tax, license and title (we didn’t even talk about the proverbial doc fee)
-$41,574


Other possible discounts....

Military discount-$400

This next one is a biggie.....if you lease, instead of purchase, Kia will throw $2,921 at a lease deal (but you add the $2K finance cash back into it).

Lease price is $40,653.

Personally, for that kind of performance, with those looks, that equipment level, nothing can touch it.

As you can tell, I was impressed.

It's a great car, and competitive in its segment- but I still think a 1 or 2 year old GT2 RWD(as God intended) would be a better deal.

It's much like the 2018 GC Trailhawk I found with the 3.0 turbo diesel and all the option packages; I can get it for $7,000 off sticker- but I can get a similarly equipped 2017 CPO for over $15,000 off of MSRP.

RB....good assessment. My only issue with a used one, what if the original buyer was a faux kid racer who trashed it? Given that's Kia's likely demographic, I would be worried a tad about that. But, as you say, the better deal would be to get a used one that checks out from a condition stand point.

henryn

graphicguy said:

RB....good assessment. My only issue with a used one, what if the original buyer was a faux kid racer who trashed it? Given that's Kia's likely demographic, I would be worried a tad about that. But, as you say, the better deal would be to get a used one that checks out from a condition stand point.

The only problem with that: If no one buys the new ones, there will never be any used ones.

Or, more realistically, if sales are sluggish, there will be very few used ones to pick from.

fintail

One thing that bugs me about the Stinger, the ICE screen. Looks like something from a 2012 BMW, and like the tablet screens in some MBs (being phased out now), already kind of passe.

Some of the materials in such cars can be hit and miss, as boomchek mentions, but I suppose this is a case kind of like a Tesla, where the powertrain is the key, and the other things are included at a low priority.

benjaminh

This certified 2015 BMW 535i with 25k miles offered for $31k comes with a 6-cylinder turbo. If looking for a fast car, I think I'd rather have this than a new Kia Stinger....

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/751314077/overview/

boomchek

I'd take a 5 series as well. I had a couple of these as demos and enjoyed them.

roadburner

An F10- the Bavarian cure for insomnia.
And definitely not all that fast, either. BMW lost the plot on the 5 Series after the E39.

Drivingfool

The new 2018 Foci do not have the auto tranny issue, we've got more than a few in our fleet, our group picked them up in Miami with the plastic still covering the seats. Out of the 75 units or so that we picked up to be put into service, none of them had that lugging issue anymore, all drove and shifted as they should and they really were a pleasure to drive. They were Titanium models with Sirius/XM and leather like seating surfaces and alloy wheels. Hate to admit it but I enjoyed them all and wouldn't mind buying one unit but the price would have to be low enough to get over the Ford stigma. But that's another story all together.
Drove a Caddy on Friday, a XTS, nice enough vehicle but hated the infotainment set up. Very confusing and illogical. Same with the few ATS's I drove earlier in the year. Nice enough vehicles but sound system was way too complicated which actually ruined the experience. But, for the right price, I'd be happy to purchase an ATS unit. But growing up with Cadillacs in the fleet every other year, that or a Lincoln Continental, am no longer impressed by them. They are no longer the gold standard of the automotive world, but that's my humble opinion. And since opinions are like rectums, well, think we've all heard that phrase also in our lifetimes!

The Sandman/Driving Fool

abacomike

cdnpinhead said:

He is correct in that there is but one poster on here that is still in the car sales “arena” - fresh and clean bath water as opposed to isellhondas or abacomike’s old, stale and “dirty” bath water.  Kudos, cdnpinhead, for your cryptic posts! 

Thanks for your thoughtful response, AB. For what it's worth, drinking ones own bathwater is defined a number of ways, but this one seems closest to what I remember: The idiomatic phrase "drinking your own bathwater" means putting credence in information that has, in fact, come from yourself.

I’ll buy into that definition, too! 

abacomike

cdnpinhead said:

I may be one of a few that's here that works in the car business. Currently I'm a Sales Manager at a Honda dealer. Already 15 years in the car business since I started in December of 2003, about the same time I joined Edmunds forums

Good point -- I forgot about you. Welcome back, by the way. I think you're it, though.

Boomchek was who I was referring to, cdnpinhead, as being the one remaining “official” car sales mogul still here.

qbrozen

The Stinger 6-cyl is significantly quicker than the 535i, not to mention the FAR better warranty, which is something I'd definitely want on a 5-series.

abacomike

You have to wax your car more often. As I've always said, "you don't REALLY KNOW your car until you wax it a couple times." jmonroe

The only areas of my car that I “wax” is where a turd ends up. I go into my trunk, pull out the Maguires liquid wax, apply it to the surface, and then buff.  Then, back into the trunk it goes.  I leave the total car waxing and washing to my detailer. 

berri

leather like seating surfaces aka - vinyl

henryn

I assume we're talking about guano here?

henryn

benjaminh said:

This certified 2015 BMW 535i with 25k miles offered for $31k comes with a 6-cylinder turbo. If looking for a fast car, I think I'd rather have this than a new Kia Stinger....

qbrozen said:

The Stinger 6-cyl is significantly quicker than the 535i, not to mention the FAR better warranty, which is something I'd definitely want on a 5-series.

My vote would also go to the Stinger. But if we all thought the same way, there wouldn't be but one car company, and what fun would that be?

explorerx4

Those braces under the hood look like 70's GM!

roadburner

The F22 and the true M Cars are the only BMW cars I enjoy driving. As SUVs go, I also like the X3 M40i. And I'd consider an X2 M35i for a commuter sled.

ab348

explorerx4 said:

Those braces under the hood look like 70's GM!

Or even 2009 W-bodies, like my old Lacrosse.

Drivingfool

When we left Chicago last year, I started to see car carriers with Subaru's on them. Then I remembered that many are made in Lafayette Indiana which I think we went near as I saw signs. Mentioned to my wife a few times to look at all those Subaru's on those car carriers. Still was very impressed with the new Imprezza and did a couple of test drives when I thought they were going to total my current VW Golf. Preferred the sedan over the wagon due to it's smaller size but was impressed by the way it drove. Decent mpg's and the CVT tranny felt almost like a real auto tranny. Got it up to speed on the nearby Sawgrass Expressway as I test every new vehicle purchase there as I use it frequently during the week. Figure if I can't merge quickly without any drama, then I'm not interested in that particular vehicle. I need any vehicle I drive to be able to get out of it's own way when needed or really, what's the point?
The Subaru Imprezza passed my test and today, the Buick Encore did also. Have driven a few this last week or two, and starting to like them more and more. Not bad for a domestic, interior isn't awful like many domestics are and I like the slightly higher seating which it offers. When I was looking last March, very price competitive with the many rebates GM was offering. For the price, was a lot of car for the money! But, turned out that a new vehicle was not in my future as they repaired my damaged Golf so well, looks like brand new. Maybe a seasoned used car guy at a dealer could tell it has had paint/body work but hell, couldn't tell by me. And I finally got the Buick, Subaru and Hyundai stores to back off a bit as they kept bothering me to come back in to make the deal. Finally had to let them know that the insurance company had decided to repair my vehicle so I was no longer in the market for any vehicle, new or used.

The Sandman/Driving Fool