Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

bwia

Elon Musk has tunnel vision. On Tuesday night in Los Angeles, Elon Musk unveiled the first tunnel in what he hopes will become a network of underground highways. He demonstrated his proof of concept tunnel with a Model X with CBS News Gayle King. Awesome ride but I wonder how efficient this could be hoisting the cars down and up the elevator shaft. Enjoy this two minute video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lmp5BciFFg

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

ab348 said:

Interesting item this morning from our local intrepid consumer watchdog reporter on a disgruntled Acura owner. I have not heard of this oil consumption issue previously but it seems fairly widespread considering Acura's more-than-reasonable response.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/car-manufacturers-warranties-extension-diagnosis-costs-1.4950953?cmp=rss

That’s a dealership issue. That dealer is short sighted and risking losing a customer by charging for the oil change to diagnose an issue. If I were him, I would go to another dealership.

REquiring an oil change may be hoping to mitigate some of the oil useage by the new oil cleaning the rings. I've been at the Chevy store when a person had noticed oil use on one of their trucks at a rate higher than he liked. They filled the crankcase out of a spouted pouring can then put on a seal. Told the owner to come back in 1000 miles. They didn't require an oil change.

GG noted in one of the posts that the dealership and their attitude toward various customers makes all the difference about how customers feel about the handling of problems that all cars may have at times.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

It galls me to think that a tiny part of what I pay DirecTV every month goes to LMN (Lifetime Movie Network). I really really don't want any of my money going to LMN.

You mean the “all men are rats” channel? Even my wife doesn’t watch that one much.

Speaking of cable, My service provider Spectrum just got nailed by the state AG for about $130 million for providing crappy service and equipment. Customers will get a $75-150 refund and there’s something about free HBO for a few months.

Also, I got my third spam call on my Trac phone today. Some woman who wanted to reduce my car insurance bill. I told her I didn’t own a car since I’m in a nursing home.

She stammered for a second then hung up.

I’ll probably start getting calls for diapers and catheters now.

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Elon Musk has tunnel vision. On Tuesday night in Los Angeles, Elon Musk unveiled the first tunnel in what he hopes will become a network of underground highways. He demonstrated his proof of concept tunnel with a Model X with CBS News Gayle King. Awesome ride but I wonder how efficient this could be hoisting the cars down and up the elevator shaft. Enjoy this two minute video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lmp5BciFFg

I saw that on the news this morning and all I can say is SCAM! When they showed the test car going through the tunnel in the training wheel rig it was bucking and swaying all over the place. Are we to believe that there would be any stability at 300mph? Even the reporter stated that it felt like riding a roller coaster.

I give Musk credit for being a visionary but that proof of concept demonstration was laughable.

Now, I would like to hear more about his tunneling machinery. I think they said it was 14 times faster than current machines. THAT is news.

henryn

From what I've heard or read, it bores a much smaller tunnel, one of the reasons it's faster. And they have some real problems trying to get right of way, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on this to change the world.

Maybe. Eventually. But not "real soon now".

28firefighter

At this point, adding capacity does not solve the traffic problem - especially when you're going to bottleneck it with something like an elevator which will just itself create traffic and delays.

Flashy headline, little actual benefit.

cdnpinhead

The last revolutionary "change the world as we know it" concept turned out to be the Segway, and we all see how that turned out. Many people wouldn't be caught dead on one.

Let's all hide and watch this one -- should be interesting.

Mr_Shiftright

But that's because a person on a Segway looks like a dork, just like people in the past driving EVs. But now, EVs are sexy.

On the other hand, "futurists" are usually wrong, but now and then they get something right.

I think the main point is that no one is going to invest in a profitless enterprise except a government or two nations fighting a war.

venture

28firefighter said:

At this point, adding capacity does not solve the traffic problem - especially when you're going to bottleneck it with something like an elevator which will just itself create traffic and delays.

Flashy headline, little actual benefit.

Don't you think, if he ever gets a system bored, that you would just drive in to it rather than using an elevator?

It looks like getting the "bumpers" near the front wheels installed would be something that slows things down - unless they can be eliminated somehow.

driver100

venture said:

28firefighter said:

At this point, adding capacity does not solve the traffic problem - especially when you're going to bottleneck it with something like an elevator which will just itself create traffic and delays.

Flashy headline, little actual benefit.

Don't you think, if he ever gets a system bored, that you would just drive in to it rather than using an elevator?

It looks like getting the "bumpers" near the front wheels installed would be something that slows things down - unless they can be eliminated somehow.

How do you pass a slow driver?

ab348

I thought Saint Elon was quoted as saying that the add-ons to make Teslas able to use this thing would be a $200-$300 option. Sort of like the $35K Model 3.

[Deleted User]

driver100 said:

venture said:

28firefighter said:

At this point, adding capacity does not solve the traffic problem - especially when you're going to bottleneck it with something like an elevator which will just itself create traffic and delays.

Flashy headline, little actual benefit.

Don't you think, if he ever gets a system bored, that you would just drive in to it rather than using an elevator?

It looks like getting the "bumpers" near the front wheels installed would be something that slows things down - unless they can be eliminated somehow.

How do you pass a slow driver?

You wouldn't pass. In theory the vehicles would all be on autopilot and travel at the same speed.

[Deleted User]

venture said:

28firefighter said:

At this point, adding capacity does not solve the traffic problem - especially when you're going to bottleneck it with something like an elevator which will just itself create traffic and delays.

Flashy headline, little actual benefit.

Don't you think, if he ever gets a system bored, that you would just drive in to it rather than using an elevator?

It looks like getting the "bumpers" near the front wheels installed would be something that slows things down - unless they can be eliminated somehow.

If I understand correctly, those would be automated and built into the axle. I only read a couple of news stories, though, and am far from knowledgeable on this concept.

In previous interviews Elon mentioned The Boring Company only occupied a couple percent of his time, and was mostly created because he thought the name was funny, he was tired of LA traffic, and nobody was picking up on the concept after he mentioned it publicly a number of times.

Whether or not we place cars in tunnels, the capability of quickly and cheaply boring tunnels could become a disruptive force in the future. Should be interesting to watch. I know it's unlikely to ever happen, but I'd love to see The Boring Company combine efforts with a startup in Northern Colorado that wants to turn tunnels into mag lev hyperloop systems utilizing arterial lines combined with suburban feeder lines.

[Deleted User]

ab348 said:

I thought Saint Elon was quoted as saying that the add-ons to make Teslas able to use this thing would be a $200-$300 option. Sort of like the $35K Model 3.

Just curious. What do you think Musk's motivations are for Space X, Tesla, and The Boring Company?

driver100

IMHO, I think Musk is a dreamer (in a good way like Da Vinci and Henry Ford etc.) and these are problems that challenge him. I think he means well and wants to make a difference....I don't think it is about the money with him.

graphicguy

First, it was the “cheap” new Impalas. Now, for you wagon lovers, GM is having a fire sale on the Buick Wagon.....

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/12/buick-discounts-regal-sportback-17-percent-below-msrp-in-december-2018/amp/

If you don’t mind buying an abandoned model, pretty good deals to be had.

dino001

driver100 said:

IMHO, I think Musk is a dreamer (in a good way like Da Vinci and Henry Ford etc.) and these are problems that challenge him. I think he means well and wants to make a difference....I don't think it is about the money with him.

I'd agree, but he also exhibits several psychopathic treats, which means his day-to-day behavior may be driven reactions to the resisting environment and skeptical people. It feels he has no ability to restrain himself from saying something stupid (no control of his emotions), or resist a compulsion to lie whenever the reality doesn't fit his story. Other than that I'm sure he is a saint wanting to save the Planet.

bwia

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

IMHO, I think Musk is a dreamer (in a good way like Da Vinci and Henry Ford etc.) and these are problems that challenge him. I think he means well and wants to make a difference....I don't think it is about the money with him.

I'd agree, but he also exhibits several psychopathic treats, which means his day-to-day behavior may be driven reactions to the resisting environment and skeptical people. It feels he has no ability to restrain himself from saying something stupid (no control of his emotions), or resist a compulsion to lie whenever the reality doesn't fit his story. Other than that I'm sure he is a saint wanting to save the Planet.

Sounds so familiar, perhaps it is a leadership trait common in real estate and casino types (smile)

snakeweasel

tyguy said:

At this point, adding capacity does not solve the traffic problem - especially when you're going to bottleneck it with something like an elevator which will just itself create traffic and delays. Flashy headline, little actual benefit.

Don't you think, if he ever gets a system bored, that you would just drive in to it rather than using an elevator? It looks like getting the "bumpers" near the front wheels installed would be something that slows things down - unless they can be eliminated somehow.

How do you pass a slow driver?

You wouldn't pass. In theory the vehicles would all be on autopilot and travel at the same speed.

Then all that means is one little flat, break down or running out of juice means everyone is stuck behind them in the tunnel for hours.

jmonroe1

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

This isn't my dog, but my dog is just about as screwy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCcMxcdF3RY

My God my dog is the exact same way.

Look again @Snake...that is your dog.

jmonroe

[Deleted User]

snakeweasel said:

Then all that means is one little flat, break down or running out of juice means everyone is stuck behind them in the tunnel for hours.

Definitely sounds possible. Elon mentioned it was a test of concept, so I don't know if the intent is just one lane or if there would be room for more in a scaled up model. Or the ability to pull a vehicle off the main track.

[Deleted User]

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

IMHO, I think Musk is a dreamer (in a good way like Da Vinci and Henry Ford etc.) and these are problems that challenge him. I think he means well and wants to make a difference....I don't think it is about the money with him.

I'd agree, but he also exhibits several psychopathic treats, which means his day-to-day behavior may be driven reactions to the resisting environment and skeptical people. It feels he has no ability to restrain himself from saying something stupid (no control of his emotions), or resist a compulsion to lie whenever the reality doesn't fit his story. Other than that I'm sure he is a saint wanting to save the Planet.

Psychopathic treats? I think you can buy those in Colorado and now some other states.

Mr_Shiftright

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

IMHO, I think Musk is a dreamer (in a good way like Da Vinci and Henry Ford etc.) and these are problems that challenge him. I think he means well and wants to make a difference....I don't think it is about the money with him.

I'd agree, but he also exhibits several psychopathic treats, which means his day-to-day behavior may be driven reactions to the resisting environment and skeptical people. It feels he has no ability to restrain himself from saying something stupid (no control of his emotions), or resist a compulsion to lie whenever the reality doesn't fit his story. Other than that I'm sure he is a saint wanting to save the Planet.

Many interesting and successful people are psychopaths. They are best admired from afar....as in WAY AFAR.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

IMHO, I think Musk is a dreamer (in a good way like Da Vinci and Henry Ford etc.) and these are problems that challenge him. I think he means well and wants to make a difference....I don't think it is about the money with him.

I'd agree, but he also exhibits several psychopathic treats, which means his day-to-day behavior may be driven reactions to the resisting environment and skeptical people. It feels he has no ability to restrain himself from saying something stupid (no control of his emotions), or resist a compulsion to lie whenever the reality doesn't fit his story. Other than that I'm sure he is a saint wanting to save the Planet.

Many interesting and successful people are psychopaths. They are best admired from afar....as in WAY AFAR.

There are good psychopaths and awful psychopaths. Some good ones are in business, you might need a guy who will go in and clean up all the problems, as in getting rid of people....and, it doesn't bother them. Sometimes their families love them because they will do whatever it takes to protect them.

Then there are the awful ones......we won't use any examples here at this time.

But, yes, best to stay away....you will never come out ahead or even even if you get involved with one.

dino001

I think you refer more to sociopaths than psychopaths. The former ones are calculated and self-controlled and can mask themselves really well if that suits their purpose. They can even emulate sympathy and feelings. I think majority of politicians and large business leaders are sociopaths. Psychopaths are equally manipulative and have similar lack of regard to other peoples' welfare (no empathy), but their they can be distinguished from sociopaths by their inability to self-control in crisis, inability to take responsibility for effects of their actions, even if faking, and tendency for risky behaviors due to lack of fear. There are much fewer psychopaths among leaders in the free world (more sociopaths), where law still matters (sociopath would adjust much better to that), you'll see markedly more psychopaths among dictators or in charge of violent gangs.

xwesx

driver100 said:

How do you pass a slow driver?

Self-driving means no slow drivers - all in the tube go the same speed, so you have maximum efficiency regardless of speed. With exit lanes prior to elevators, the speed on the main remains constant, much like a freeway, except with taking the drivers out of the equation.

However, IMO, if we took urban drivers out of the equation with the road infrastructure we currently have, we wouldn't even need a radical idea like this.

driver100

I have given up deciding who is a psychopath and who is a sociopath....even the experts don't seem to agree. Who has these traits?

Lack of guilt/remorse
Lack of empathy
Lack of deep emotional attachments
Narcissism
Superficial charm
Dishonesty
Manipulativeness
Reckless risk-taking

Those are the traits of a psychopath (According to the Society for the Study of Psychopathy) :and it describes a lot of politicians, business leaders, dictators, priests, sales people, etc.
What is difference between Psychopath and sociopath
Psychopaths supposedly make up 1% of the population, Sociopaths 4%. Psychopaths seem to be more severe, probably lay people should just say Personality Disorder.

Mr_Shiftright

dino001 said:

I think you refer more to sociopaths than psychopaths. The former ones are calculated and self-controlled and can mask themselves really well if that suits their purpose. They can even emulate sympathy and feelings. I think majority of politicians and large business leaders are sociopaths. Psychopaths are equally manipulative and have similar lack of regard to other peoples' welfare (no empathy), but their they can be distinguished from sociopaths by their inability to self-control in crisis, inability to take responsibility for effects of their actions, even if faking, and tendency for risky behaviors due to lack of fear. There are much fewer psychopaths among leaders in the free world (more sociopaths), where law still matters (sociopath would adjust much better to that), you'll see markedly more psychopaths among dictators or in charge of violent gangs.

Yes, quite true. Psychopaths are born (bad wiring) , sociopaths are made (bad upbringing). Basically, both lack empathy, but sociopaths need not be violent in any way, and are often charming, and they can get things done. Still, best to avoid either on a personal basis, of course, and even the sociopath would be extremely difficult to work with/for. They lie a lot. They are never wrong. You can't trust 'em, ever.

explorerx4

Just wait until the first tremor happens when in the tunnel.

imidazol97

How much of this is being done with other people's money? I don't know if that's psychopathic or sociopathic in character. But I've known people who were big talkers as long as someone else was backing them with money or otherwise. Grand ideas with glib talk and smooth tongues. But they really say nothing and do nothing.

driver100

That could be either one....or it could be a narcissist........they all have some similar traits. More details will probably let you label them more accurately....if you don't know for sure, say "Personality Disorder".

imidazol97

Oh, I've known lots of people with "personality disorders." LOL

bwia

explorerx4 said:

Just wait until the first tremor happens when in the tunnel.

According to Elon Musk earthquakes do not affect subways and tunnels. He points to subways around the world for his evidence. He claims no one has died in a tunnel as a result of an earthquake. Besides his tunnel is reinforced with high strength steel. 

[Deleted User]

imidazol97 said:

How much of this is being done with other people's money? I don't know if that's psychopathic or sociopathic in character. But I've known people who were big talkers as long as someone else was backing them with money or otherwise. Grand ideas with glib talk and smooth tongues. But they really say nothing and do nothing.

Are you aware Elon invested his personal fortune in Tesla and Space X to give each of them a shot, putting everything of his personally at risk? Space X is private and Tesla is public. How much has Mary Barra personally invested in GM?

[Deleted User]

If you want to understand Musk, I suggest listening to a speech he made at a graduation ceremony a number of years ago. Starting 5:45 it gets interesting in regards to Space X and Tesla in their early days:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MxZpaJK74Y4&t=980s

In short, Elon wants the world to move to sustainable energy, storage, and usage, hence Tesla and then Solar City after that speech was made. Others weren't making strides for that to happen anytime soon, so he did. Tesla exists to prove electric cars can be exiting and practical. Solar City made sustainable electrical generation affordable for more people. Space X came along because he wants to see humans establish a colony on Mars and even beyond, and public interest in space was waning. Plus Russia wouldn't sell him an ICBM (seriously).

And he's still a young guy. I wonder what he'll think of next?

You may not like him, but his motivation is the sustainment of humanity, and he thinks on a big scale.

(edited grammar)

Mr_Shiftright

I'd rather have more of a vote as to the future of humanity, not just have him plan it. His vision is self-serving and techno-centric. Remember "Atoms for Peace"? Or "Save the World By Eradicating DDT"? Or even social media, which was going to make us one big happy global family?

How'd those work out? Not so good. Atom energy terrorized us, lack of DDT starved millions, and social media tends to make people miserable.

Nature thinks on a much bigger scale than he does.

explorerx4

Maybe planners don't build tunnels in places prone to earthquakes.

berri

Prophets can often be self serving, but if Musk can really reduce our energy consumption and pollution, then I welcome him. However, at this point I'm still not sure what's hype and what's true advances. The next few years should reveal some of the answers.

[Deleted User]

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'd rather have more of a vote as to the future of humanity, not just have him plan it. His vision is self-serving and techno-centric. Remember "Atoms for Peace"? Or "Save the World By Eradicating DDT"? Or even social media, which was going to make us one big happy global family? How'd those work out? Not so good. Atom energy terrorized us, lack of DDT starved millions, and social media tends to make people miserable. Nature thinks on a much bigger scale than he does.

How do you not have a vote in his vision?  If you don’t agree, don’t buy it. 

oldfarmer50

venture said:

28firefighter said:

At this point, adding capacity does not solve the traffic problem - especially when you're going to bottleneck it with something like an elevator which will just itself create traffic and delays.

Flashy headline, little actual benefit.

Don't you think, if he ever gets a system bored, that you would just drive in to it rather than using an elevator?

It looks like getting the "bumpers" near the front wheels installed would be something that slows things down - unless they can be eliminated somehow.

Wouldn’t it be simpler if you could just drive onto a platform that would then travel in the tunnel?

abacomike

Been watching all the episodes of “The
Grand Tour” with Jeremy Clarkson and  Hammond and May.  Better than Top Gear in my opinion.  Didn’t know Prime Video had this series - very funny and they curse like drunk sailors.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

First, it was the “cheap” new Impalas. Now, for you wagon lovers, GM is having a fire sale on the Buick Wagon.....

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/12/buick-discounts-regal-sportback-17-percent-below-msrp-in-december-2018/amp/

If you don’t mind buying an abandoned model, pretty good deals to be had.

I see Buick’s problem, calling that a wagon makes no sense.

28firefighter

abacomike said:

Been watching all the episodes of “The
Grand Tour” with Jeremy Clarkson and the two other guys.  Better than Top Gear in my opinion.  Didn’t know Prime Video had this series - very funny and they curse like drunk sailors.

They total enough cars that they could be drunk...

oldfarmer50

This is for GG who has considered both these cars:

https://youtu.be/rdsxfTJiTVw

I’ll only make two points.

1) On the track, look in which car the driver has the biggest smile on his face.

2) With its’ exhaust, CAI and GT 350 throttle body, my Mustang makes a few more horsepower than that Mustang’s 460hp. (Couldn’t resist bragging a bit).

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

First, it was the “cheap” new Impalas. Now, for you wagon lovers, GM is having a fire sale on the Buick Wagon..... http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/12/buick-discounts-regal-sportback-17-percent-below-msrp-in-december-2018/amp/ If you don’t mind buying an abandoned model, pretty good deals to be had.

Yet it still won't lease well

fintail

People who are so great and altruistic don't make unfounded accusations of pedophilia via Twitter like golden boy Elon. That BS should cost a lot of his fortune right there. Seeing how his battle with the SEC has gone, however, it is just more evidence of the golden rule. He may have some cool ideas, but he has some enormous flaws as well.

[Deleted User]

fintail said:

People who are so great and altruistic don't make unfounded accusations of pedophilia via Twitter like golden boy Elon. That BS should cost a lot of his fortune right there. Seeing how his battle with the SEC has gone, however, it is just more evidence of the golden rule. He may have some cool ideas, but he has some enormous flaws as well.

Lots of people have cool ideas, but very few actually do something about it.  I don't recall anyone claiming Musk is altruistic, and like many visionaries and most human beings, he has character flaws.  Steve Jobs was a straight up jerk, but the man could lead a company to greatness and produce products people wanted.  Musk, an imperfect human, wants to make our future sustainable and I can buy into that concept, character flaws and all.

fintail

Even if he has those wishes, I can question his motivations for a sustainable future (private EVs aren't it), but I like that he has helped spur some innovation. I also have little doubt Musk is no less a jerk than Jobs. Some of his statements are just baffling.

Now if we could only get some better range for roadtrippers or those of us without easy/convenient access to charging infrastructure. It could happen.

tyguy said:

Lots of people have cool ideas, but very few actually do something about it.  I don't recall anyone claiming Musk is altruistic, and like many visionaries and most human beings, he has character flaws.  Steve Jobs was a straight up jerk, but the man could lead a company to greatness and produce products people wanted.  Musk, an imperfect human, wants to make our future sustainable and I can buy into that concept, character flaws and all.

driver100

fintail said:

People who are so great and altruistic don't make unfounded accusations of pedophilia via Twitter like golden boy Elon. That BS should cost a lot of his fortune right there. Seeing how his battle with the SEC has gone, however, it is just more evidence of the golden rule. He may have some cool ideas, but he has some enormous flaws as well.

I usually give a true genius a bit of leeway when it comes to character flaws, their brains may not work in the same normal patterns as we normal people. Not everyone can be flawless and perfect like me.

imidazol97

Tesla is operating as a US-based company and building cars in the US. I applaud that.

I still think it's a question when a government supports a particular company with unique goals or processes. (Note: that is different than supporting a going business for the purpose of saving jobs and the economy--no matter how badly the government botched the politics and saddled the company with leftover, outdated union control baggage. EOD).

I questioned who actually pays for the charging stations to be built. I suspect, although some claim the company that's topic here did it, there is other taxpayer subsidy involved in some of these. I see a bank of 8 SC that have been there for years now in a nearby city adjacent to a Meijer superstore parking. I can't find newspaper info about how it was done. I suspect there may have been a subsidy from state or federal monies in the interest of "green energy" development. A local library brand has 8-10 parking spaces labeled for ride share and other t ypes of group transportation parking, right next to the door. And they have only 3 handicapped spaces on the other side of the door. I asked the head librarian and she mentioned LEEDS requirements becauses that involved some money to help the library system lower the cost if they did that along with other supposed energy-saving things. So I conclude the area Meijer store got some subsidy. Never saw more than 1 TEsla hooked up for years. Now I occasionally see 2 if I stop at that store. The adjacent Chipotles is the worst I ever was in, but luckily for the travelers there are now a few other fast food places along the outlots.

https://electrek.co/2017/12/20/tesla-charging-station-municipalities/

Now municipal governments are being asked to work with Tesla. There's lots of discussion in the comments about Tesla fair use rules for owners of business Tesla vehicals for those wanting to tunnel further.

Before someone posts that I'm anti-Elon, the government subsidizes the highways for trucks and the air traffic control system for airplanes and all the wealthy flying their private jetes around polluting the air, so I'm just looking at what is the funding.

Cincinnati is giving a third stadiium to a new soccer group mostly at public expense. We'll see if they put in a bank of Tesla chargers for the fans to use while at the games. It's adjacent to I75 in downtown Cincinnati.