Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

It is amazing how cars hold up down here in Florida. Today I saw a 1986 Chev Celebrity Eurosport that was in pretty good condition. I was drawn to it because I had a black 86 Eurosport. It made me think, probably the only thing Euro or sport about it was the name. But basically, it was a pretty good car in it's day.

Back in 1983 when I was flipping my 1979 Arrow GT to buy my 1973 Bavaria, I wound up selling the Arrow to my local Chevrolet dealer. The owner asked what I was buying and I told him; "If you wait a couple of months we'll be getting in a Celebrity Eurosport!" he enthused.
I considered that for all of about one nanosecond...

RB, By 1979 Arrow GT are you talking one of these.....a Plymouth Arrow?



It seems to be there was another Arrow....Sunbeam Arrow maybe?

I didn't think you were a Plymouth guy!

driver100

abacomike said:

Personally, I was amazed that the 3.0 L Jaguar XF supercharged V6 Sport Sedan was holding so close to MSRP.  I was of the impression that you could buy them for close to invoice.  I know they are getting improved ratings, but not even BMW and Audi and Mercedes are as difficult to get near invoice pricing as Jaguar.  Sure could have fooled me!

I just did a quick look and Edmunds seems to be able to get most Jaguar XF models for about $4000 off list. Maybe check prices paid and maybe others are getting $10k to $20k discounts!
I found on US News the cars sold pretty close to list, actually the lowest price was more than list (not sure I am reading that right);
Mid-size Cars
Avg. Paid:$50,326 - $95,285
MSRP: $50,175 - $99,000
Invoice: $46,161 - $91,080

roadburner

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

It is amazing how cars hold up down here in Florida. Today I saw a 1986 Chev Celebrity Eurosport that was in pretty good condition. I was drawn to it because I had a black 86 Eurosport. It made me think, probably the only thing Euro or sport about it was the name. But basically, it was a pretty good car in it's day.

Back in 1983 when I was flipping my 1979 Arrow GT to buy my 1973 Bavaria, I wound up selling the Arrow to my local Chevrolet dealer. The owner asked what I was buying and I told him; "If you wait a couple of months we'll be getting in a Celebrity Eurosport!" he enthused.
I considered that for all of about one nanosecond...

RB, By 1979 Arrow GT are you talking one of these.....a Plymouth Arrow?



It seems to be there was another Arrow....Sunbeam Arrow maybe?

I didn't think you were a Plymouth guy!

The car in your pictures is a "Fire Arrow;" the GT had different striping and styled steel wheels instead of alloys. In 1979 the Arrow 2.6 was one of the fastest cars sold by a domestic automaker(even though it was a rebadged Mitsubishi Celeste). It would scoot from 0-60 in a scorching 10 seconds.Aside from the cart sprung live axle it was pretty sophisticated for its day: SOHC engine with balance shafts, five speed manual, and four wheel disc brakes. Here's mine in a group photo taken in the early '80s:

graphicguy

driver100 said:

It is amazing how cars hold up down here in Florida. Today I saw a 1986 Chev Celebrity Eurosport that was in pretty good condition. I was drawn to it because I had a black 86 Eurosport. It made me think, probably the only thing Euro or sport about it was the name. But basically, it was a pretty good car in it's day.

My Dad had an Pontiac 6000 STE. Can't recall if that was a blood relative of the EuroSport or not. At the time, it was supposed to be the equal of a 5 series. Nor all together sure about that, either.

Had a friend who was a big 80s era Mitsubishi fanatic. I recall he had a little one, can't recall the name, which he traded for a Eclipse with AWD, and ended up with their alleged luxury big car, called a Diamante. I seem to remember all of them were pretty good. All of them, except the Diamante were turbo charged.

houdini1

Back in the early 80's, a friend of mine had some sort of Buick. I think it was called a Grand National. Unbelievably fast car for its day. It was very plain looking.

roadburner

The GN was very quick for its day- it had a turbo V6. The limited edition GNX was a monster.

fezo

Back in the day I cane awful close to buying an Arrow.

driver100

GG said

My Dad had an Pontiac 6000 STE. Can't recall if that was a blood relative of the EuroSport or not. At the time, it was supposed to be the equal of a 5 series. Nor all together sure about that, either

.


For the record, the Pontiac 6000 STE was the Pontiac version of the Chev Celebrity Eurosport. The Pontiac version was a little more glamorous.



When i looked up this image the owner talked about the dash having lots of geeky buttons....many redundant.

graphicguy

driver100 said:

GG said

My Dad had an Pontiac 6000 STE. Can't recall if that was a blood relative of the EuroSport or not. At the time, it was supposed to be the equal of a 5 series. Nor all together sure about that, either

.


For the record, the Pontiac 6000 STE was the Pontiac version of the Chev Celebrity Eurosport. The Pontiac version was a little more glamorous.



When i looked up this image the owner talked about the dash having lots of geeky buttons....many redundant.








Yep....that's what I remember.....lots and lots of buttons on the inside.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

When i looked up this image the owner talked about the dash having lots of geeky buttons....many redundant.

That was an era where technology was expanding. I suspect having the buttons was chic for the time.
I take away the 5 sliders for an equalizer on the radio ( a tech feature) and the other buttons seem to be
in groups for the heater on bottom left and then a few buttons above, maybe for lights and wipers?
The radio still has a massive button group.

I'd like to see the owner manual for that STE to see what the functions were.

graphicguy

houdini1 said:

Back in the early 80's, a friend of mine had some sort of Buick. I think it was called a Grand National. Unbelievably fast car for its day. It was very plain looking.

I think isellhondas had a Grand National. Yes....very quick....ton of torque steer, too. They're collector's cars now.

roadburner

The GN was RWD.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

The GN was RWD.

I'm mistaken then. I thought I had read they were FWD and had a bunch of TS. Apologies!

driver100

1987 Grand national:


0 to 60 6.1 Sec
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 245 @ 4,400

ray80

Ouch
[url]http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/31997/bmw/x5/help-do-i-sell-my-car-or-go-for-mega-cost-repairs-for-water-damage-on-a-barely-driven-2008-bmw-x5#latest[/url]

qbrozen

driver100 said:

1987 Grand national:


0 to 60 6.1 Sec
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 245 @ 4,400

And that's the slow model. There was a limited edition GNX that hits 60 in less than 5 secs.

imidazol97

qbrozen said:

And that's the slow model. There was a limited edition GNX that hits 60 in less than 5 secs.

And it's a Buick! I can just hear the lady in the commercial about the changing image of Buick saying that
word, "Beeuuuick!"

roadburner

ray80 said:

Ouch
[url]http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/31997/bmw/x5/help-do-i-sell-my-car-or-go-for-mega-cost-repairs-for-water-damage-on-a-barely-driven-2008-bmw-x5#latest[/url]

Who in their right mind leaves a nearly new car outside and unattended for three years? If he could afford a late model X5 he surely could have afforded dry storage somewhere- or else he should have sold it and saved the money to buy a car when he was back in country. Crazy!

driver100

ray80 said:

Ouch
[url]http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/31997/bmw/x5/help-do-i-sell-my-car-or-go-for-mega-cost-repairs-for-water-damage-on-a-barely-driven-2008-bmw-x5#latest[/url]

They walk among us.

I don't really see how that can happen. If you leave the car outside for 3 years and it is driven how does that change how much water can get inside....unless he left the roof and windows open.

A car shouldn't sit for 3 years...it should be driven every 6 to 8 months at least, but I don't get why all the water damage.

I've told this story before but my SIL bought my 2004 X3. After he had it about 2 years (ttal of 5 or 6 years old) he asked if I had big puddles on the floor. I said I knew nothing about it, take it to the dealer. They found chipmunks ate the insulation in the front window pillars and the insulation below the front windshield. Not my problem, but maybe this guy had something similar happen.

graphicguy

I replied over to the OP's request. I think we're missing some pertinent info, too. I have the same questions as you guys do. How did it get SO WET that the electronics are fried if the carpets are just "moist"? How did the sun roof drain plugs get clogged? Wouldn't it have to be submerged for the drain plugs in the sunroof to clog? That's a ton of water. Why does it need new brakes? I can see the tires having a flat spot if it wasn't moved at all, but wouldn't that take more than 3 years? Engine and trans is perfect? As in it starts and runs?

At first, I thought flood. Then, he said the carpets were just barely moist and no smell of mildew or mold. There's more to what happened to this car than it was just sitting for 3 years.

There's a lot more here that we don't know.

ray80

graphicguy said:

I replied over to the OP's request. I think we're missing some pertinent info, too. I have the same questions as you guys do. How did it get SO WET that the electronics are fried if the carpets are just "moist"? How did the sun roof drain plugs get clogged? Wouldn't it have to be submerged for the drain plugs in the sunroof to clog? That's a ton of water. Why does it need new brakes? I can see the tires having a flat spot if it wasn't moved at all, but wouldn't that take more than 3 years? Engine and trans is perfect? As in it starts and runs?

At first, I thought flood. Then, he said the carpets were just barely moist and no smell of mildew or mold. There's more to what happened to this car than it was just sitting for 3 years.

There's a lot more here that we don't know.

Has to be stuff we don't know. Sunroof drains can easily get clogged with debris moving around in the wind (if not removed by washing vehicle once in a while), and the seal for sinroof isn't real waterproof for 'standing' water.

I have a vehicle with clogged sunroof drains and once while on vaca I had it parked in a driveway on incline (front end high) and with heavy rain water got into cabin and tracked via headliner to places it shouldn't have been (either BCM or other wiring near dash). Had a bunch of stuff that would not work correctly until after I drove it 100 miles or so with heat on in summer to dry things out.

isellhondas

graphicguy said:

houdini1 said:

Back in the early 80's, a friend of mine had some sort of Buick. I think it was called a Grand National. Unbelievably fast car for its day. It was very plain looking.

I think isellhondas had a Grand National. Yes....very quick....ton of torque steer, too. They're collector's cars now.

Nope, I've had two '65 Rivieras. One was a Gran Sport....yes...FAST!

Two GTO's a 66 and a 67 and a 64 Impala SS 409. That's it for muscle cars.

A Grand National would run away from a new Corvette at the time.

graphicguy

isellhondas said:

graphicguy said:

houdini1 said:

Back in the early 80's, a friend of mine had some sort of Buick. I think it was called a Grand National. Unbelievably fast car for its day. It was very plain looking.

I think isellhondas had a Grand National. Yes....very quick....ton of torque steer, too. They're collector's cars now.

Nope, I've had two '65 Rivieras. One was a Gran Sport....yes...FAST!

Two GTO's a 66 and a 67 and a 64 Impala SS 409. That's it for muscle cars.

A Grand National would run away from a new Corvette at the time.

Man...I'm way off my game today. That said, nice line up of big, fast iron you've got there, Craig

imidazol97

isellhondas said:

Nope, I've had two '65 Rivieras. One was a Gran Sport....yes...FAST!

Two GTO's a 66 and a 67 and a 64 Impala SS 409. That's it for muscle cars.

Did you have a Reatta? Or maybe you looked at purchasing a Reatta?

jayrider

graphicguy said:

I replied over to the OP's request. I think we're missing some pertinent info, too. I have the same questions as you guys do. How did it get SO WET that the electronics are fried if the carpets are just "moist"? How did the sun roof drain plugs get clogged? Wouldn't it have to be submerged for the drain plugs in the sunroof to clog? That's a ton of water. Why does it need new brakes? I can see the tires having a flat spot if it wasn't moved at all, but wouldn't that take more than 3 years? Engine and trans is perfect? As in it starts and runs?

At first, I thought flood. Then, he said the carpets were just barely moist and no smell of mildew or mold. There's more to what happened to this car than it was just sitting for 3 years.

There's a lot more here that we don't know.

I smell fake post. Someone just looking to mess with you. I would totally ignore that story.

isellhondas

imidazol97 said:

isellhondas said:

Nope, I've had two '65 Rivieras. One was a Gran Sport....yes...FAST!

Two GTO's a 66 and a 67 and a 64 Impala SS 409. That's it for muscle cars.

Did you have a Reatta? Or maybe you looked at purchasing a Reatta?

We did have a Reatta! forgot about that one only it wasn't a "muscle car". That 3800 engine was more than adequate. Kept the Reatta a year or so, got bored with it and sent it down the road as I have so many others.

isellhondas

jayrider said:

graphicguy said:

I replied over to the OP's request. I think we're missing some pertinent info, too. I have the same questions as you guys do. How did it get SO WET that the electronics are fried if the carpets are just "moist"? How did the sun roof drain plugs get clogged? Wouldn't it have to be submerged for the drain plugs in the sunroof to clog? That's a ton of water. Why does it need new brakes? I can see the tires having a flat spot if it wasn't moved at all, but wouldn't that take more than 3 years? Engine and trans is perfect? As in it starts and runs?

At first, I thought flood. Then, he said the carpets were just barely moist and no smell of mildew or mold. There's more to what happened to this car than it was just sitting for 3 years.

There's a lot more here that we don't know.

I smell fake post. Someone just looking to mess with you. I would totally ignore that story.

It wouldn't be the first time we've been messed with!

imidazol97

isellhondas said:

We did have a Reatta! forgot about that one only it wasn't a "muscle car". That 3800 engine was more than adequate. Kept the Reatta a year or so, got bored with it and sent it down the road as I have so many others.

I agree it wasn't a muscle car, but the 3800 surely moved it along well enough.

fezo

So I see Jalopnik has their "the best car nobody is buying." The winner is the Chevy SS. I suspect that 90% of the public doesn't even know it exists. I've never seen one and at mid $40s for one I'm unlikely to see it in my driveway.

No question it's a seriously nice car. Even available with a stick as it should be.

imidazol97

isellhondas said:

We did have a Reatta! forgot about that one only it wasn't a "muscle car". That 3800 engine was more than adequate. Kept the Reatta a year or so, got bored with it and sent it down the road as I have so many others.

I agree it wasn't a muscle car, but the 3800 surely moved it along well enough.

abacomike

isellhondas said:

Back in the early 80's, a friend of mine had some sort of Buick. I think it was called a Grand National. Unbelievably fast car for its day. It was very plain looking.

I think isellhondas had a Grand National. Yes....very quick....ton of torque steer, too. They're collector's cars now.

Nope, I've had two '65 Rivieras. One was a Gran Sport....yes...FAST! Two GTO's a 66 and a 67 and a 64 Impala SS 409. That's it for muscle cars. A Grand National would run away from a new Corvette at the time.

Craig, it looks like we had similar tastes in muscle cars during the '60's.  I had a '65 Impala SS 327, '66 GTO 4 speed stck, '67 Stingray Fastback 427, '68 Charger R/T stick, and a '68 GTO stick.  I truly enjoyed those muscle cars.  I almost killed myself in that '66 GTO so I remember it well!

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

It is amazing how cars hold up down here in Florida. Today I saw a 1986 Chev Celebrity Eurosport that was in pretty good condition. I was drawn to it because I had a black 86 Eurosport. It made me think, probably the only thing Euro or sport about it was the name. But basically, it was a pretty good car in it's day.

I had an 84 Eurosport. It actually was a step up from the vanilla Celebrity. Stiffer suspension, peppier engine (premium fuel) and some cool trim bits. When I blew up the engine on mine I replaced it with a junk yard motor from a station wagon. Big difference.

Yes cars seem to last much better down there compared to the rust belt. Why do you think I keep asking to move into your garage?

laurasdada

Wow, Mike. I'm a bit shocked by the XF story. Granted, I bought my '13 on NYE '13, but it stickered for a bit under $65 and I picked it up for a shade over $50 (AWD, all options but Portfolio pkg. And, "free" winter mats!)!. Granted, I didn't get near what I had wanted for my '09 XK in trade, but that's still quite a turnaround! I'll believe your friend's was a '15?

oldfarmer50

ray80 said:

Ouch
[url]http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/31997/bmw/x5/help-do-i-sell-my-car-or-go-for-mega-cost-repairs-for-water-damage-on-a-barely-driven-2008-bmw-x5#latest[/url]

Looks like a Craigslist special for sure.

abacomike

laurasdada said:

Wow, Mike. I'm a bit shocked by the XF story. Granted, I bought my '13 on NYE '13, but it stickered for a bit under $65 and I picked it up for a shade over $50 (AWD, all options but Portfolio pkg. And, "free" winter mats!)!. Granted, I didn't get near what I had wanted for my '09 XK in trade, but that's still quite a turnaround! I'll believe your friend's was a '15?

Yes, 2015 XF 3.0 turbo Sport.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

1987 Grand national:


0 to 60 6.1 Sec
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 245 @ 4,400

And that's the slow model. There was a limited edition GNX that hits 60 in less than 5 secs.

A while back I related a GN I saw on one of the auction shows. Owner bought it new, drove it a few miles and then stored it for 25+ years. It sold for about $15k over it's original MSRP which I though was a pretty bad rate of return.

oldfarmer50

Late on the gas tax debate but according to a story I just saw on the news only 22% of the taxes collected for roads in NY actually goes for road and infrastructure repair.

Not surprising in a state where our 2nd most powerful politician just got busted for stealing millions.

It's because of that, that I'm wary of ANY tax hike, gas or otherwise.

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

Late on the gas tax debate but according to a story I just saw on the news only 22% of the taxes collected for roads in NY actually goes for road and infrastructure repair. Not surprising in a state where our 2nd most powerful politician just got busted for stealing millions. It's because of that, that I'm wary of ANY tax hike, gas or otherwise.

What does all that toll money to get used for?

jayrider

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Late on the gas tax debate but according to a story I just saw on the news only 22% of the taxes collected for roads in NY actually goes for road and infrastructure repair.

Not surprising in a state where our 2nd most powerful politician just got busted for stealing millions.

It's because of that, that I'm wary of ANY tax hike, gas or otherwise.

What does all that toll money to get used for?

Patronage jobs of course.

fezo

If every body got a copy showing line by line how everything was spent half of the real power folks now would be in prison with Tiny.

fezo

What? Nobody up for a Chevy that's he price of an ATS?

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Late on the gas tax debate but according to a story I just saw on the news only 22% of the taxes collected for roads in NY actually goes for road and infrastructure repair.

Not surprising in a state where our 2nd most powerful politician just got busted for stealing millions.

It's because of that, that I'm wary of ANY tax hike, gas or otherwise.

What does all that toll money to get used for?

If you're talking about the NYS Thruway which runs from NYC to the PA border near Jamestown good question. The bonds that built the road were paid off in 1996 and the tolls should have ended. Never did. Now they want to raise them 40% to pay for the new Tappen Zee bridge.

Another reason I want to squat in driver's garage down in Florida.

houdini1

Looking at todays paper, I saw a new 2015 Chrysler 200 with a msrp of around $27,000. advertised for $18,000. Now we all know that a lot of msrps have been artificially inflated in recent years. This ad got me to thinking about depreciation, and how much new cars actually depreciate. Using this car as an example, lets say that after one year the car might be worth $14,000 dollars on a trade in. Since depreciation is based on msrp, that means that this car, on paper, depreciated about 52% in the first year. But based on selling price it only depreciated about 22%.

Unless I am missing something, packing the msrps, and the big gaps between msrps and selling prices are really going to distort depreciation rates on some vehicles.

henryn

houdini1 said:

Looking at todays paper, I saw a new 2015 Chrysler 200 with a msrp of around $27,000. advertised for $18,000. Now we all know that a lot of msrps have been artificially inflated in recent years. This ad got me to thinking about depreciation, and how much new cars actually depreciate. Using this car as an example, lets say that after one year the car might be worth $14,000 dollars on a trade in. Since depreciation is based on msrp, that means that this car, on paper, depreciated about 52% in the first year. But based on selling price it only depreciated about 22%.

Unless I am missing something, packing the msrps, and the big gaps between msrps and selling prices are really going to distort depreciation rates on some vehicles.

I have considered that before. It truly does make a huge difference in many cases. When I purchased my 2013 F150, about 15 months ago, the window sticker (MSRP) was over $35k. I paid $26,100. The truck is probably worth $24k on a trade in right now. Did it depreciate 25%, or 9% ? Very, very big difference there.

If you're smart enough, or patient enough, to buy a left over model at the end of the year, look for what has big incentives on it, etc, you can get by with very little depreciation. For example, Qbrozen bought a 2013 Mustang GT at the end of the model year, kept it for 2 years, and only lost about$3 or $4k on depreciation when he traded it in on his new V-Sport.

qbrozen

fezo said:

So I see Jalopnik has their "the best car nobody is buying." The winner is the Chevy SS. I suspect that 90% of the public doesn't even know it exists. I've never seen one and at mid $40s for one I'm unlikely to see it in my driveway.

No question it's a seriously nice car. Even available with a stick as it should be.

But there are none to buy!

It was on my shopping list, but I could not locate one anywhere. So either they are selling or they aren't building nearly enough.

And, because of that, if you can find one, you are not likely to get a discount. So, in the end, I wound up with a much nicer, slightly quicker V sport for maybe $1k-$2k more.

fezo

Per AutoTrader, there are 11 of them with 75 mile of my zip. All list around $47,000 and mostly the dealer says that's their price. Some are offering 3K off. Were I in your shoes I , too, would have taken the V sport.

Checy's funny. Overall I like The brand but there's nothing in their lineup that I could realistically afford that spins my chair,

houdini1

henryn said:

houdini1 said:

Looking at todays paper, I saw a new 2015 Chrysler 200 with a msrp of around $27,000. advertised for $18,000. Now we all know that a lot of msrps have been artificially inflated in recent years. This ad got me to thinking about depreciation, and how much new cars actually depreciate. Using this car as an example, lets say that after one year the car might be worth $14,000 dollars on a trade in. Since depreciation is based on msrp, that means that this car, on paper, depreciated about 52% in the first year. But based on selling price it only depreciated about 22%.

Unless I am missing something, packing the msrps, and the big gaps between msrps and selling prices are really going to distort depreciation rates on some vehicles.

I have considered that before. It truly does make a huge difference in many cases. When I purchased my 2013 F150, about 15 months ago, the window sticker (MSRP) was over $35k. I paid $26,100. The truck is probably worth $24k on a trade in right now. Did it depreciate 25%, or 9% ? Very, very big difference there.

If you're smart enough, or patient enough, to buy a left over model at the end of the year, look for what has big incentives on it, etc, you can get by with very little depreciation. For example, Qbrozen bought a 2013 Mustang GT at the end of the model year, kept it for 2 years, and only lost about$3 or $4k on depreciation when he traded it in on his new V-Sport.

Smart enough and patient enough. Exactly. That is the way to use this to your advantage.

graphicguy

Buying cars with end of model year discounts (usually hefty) benefits on both ends....buying, and selling/trading.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Late on the gas tax debate but according to a story I just saw on the news only 22% of the taxes collected for roads in NY actually goes for road and infrastructure repair.

Not surprising in a state where our 2nd most powerful politician just got busted for stealing millions.

It's because of that, that I'm wary of ANY tax hike, gas or otherwise.

What does all that toll money to get used for?

If you're talking about the NYS Thruway which runs from NYC to the PA border near Jamestown good question. The bonds that built the road were paid off in 1996 and the tolls should have ended. Never did. Now they want to raise them 40% to pay for the new Tappen Zee bridge.

Another reason I want to squat in driver's garage down in Florida.


It would probably be a good move if you wanted to aviod taxes....although the rent will kill you.

Florida is #44 for highest taxes, New York #1!

HIGHEST TAXES RANKED BY STATE

robr2

oldfarmer50 said:

If you're talking about the NYS Thruway which runs from NYC to the PA border near Jamestown good question. The bonds that built the road were paid off in 1996 and the tolls should have ended. Never did. Now they want to raise them 40% to pay for the new Tappen Zee bridge.

Another reason I want to squat in driver's garage down in Florida.

Florida has 734 miles of toll roads - the most of any state.