Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stever

76°F predicted today. Guess that means the convertibles are done for year.

Let us know when you get home Mike.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

That's it, rub it in the faces of us poor souls suffering at 20 degrees with a 3 day snow snow storm looming.

A 3-day snow storm? I've had enough snow for my winter. I'm looking forward to some days in the 40s now.
Today we've got a bright Florida sun and clear skies. Temp going up. Convertible weather here.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

Here's a blog discussion. Lots of fun reading especially the one where "fusion" is claimed as how the electric heater makes heat.

There is a similar scam and it was called an Amish Heater. They only called it an Amish Heater because people presume the Amish are honest. In this one you got a heater for free, but you had to pay $300 for a wooden fireplace, that was made by Amish people.
AMISH HEATER SCAM

Imid...post the Blog about "Fusion".

Here's the link to the blog about the EdenPure that I failed to post earlier. I'm sorry.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/dayton-oh/T24APAPL0GQA4RUMI

That article was a masterpiece of exposing the scum who try to sell this kind of garbage. I enjoyed "hoss's" letter and then the one that talks about these heaters working from "fusion"...which would mean we could all buy atomic reactors for $100.

It was also interesting that "hoss" pointed out most of the letters praising these heaters are planted by more unscrupulous people, probably employees of these companies.

Thanks for passing the article on...I loved reading it!

Oldfarmer: Enjoyed reading your comments about "heat" and how a $20 heater will basically do what a $500 heater does......thanks!

driver100

abacomike said:

Well, still have not been released from the hospital.  Maybe tomorrow - who knows?  Been here about 6 days so far.  I just don't feel that much better.  My blood sugars are off the charts as are some kidney and liver functions.  This infection is sure playing havoc with just about every organ in my body - especially my lungs.

Get better soon Mike....we need you here.

driver100

Imid said: Heat Surge Hybrid-Thermic heat technology safely heats a room faster and more effectively than typical space heaters. That’s because it uses the same kind of heat energy as the sun, the far infrared rays of the light spectrum. Though invisible, this heat energy can be felt every day when standing in the sunshine

Isn't that the same as radiant heat...which has been used in heaters for 50 years?

Mr_Shiftright

"Hybrid-Thermic™ heat is like bringing home the warmth of the sun. It heats quickly and evenly while staying cool to the touch."

the sun is cool to the touch? I didn't know that!

Mr_Shiftright

TAXES: Well gas tax is a typical regressive tax, applied uniformly, and thus impacting lower income levels more severely.

graphicguy

Shifty....mentioned this in another post, but the wife and I figured we'd save $2,000 this year compared with last year based on the drop in gas prices. Nice for us. We'll put that money back into circulation vs to the oil companies or to the gov't in the form of higher taxes.

For low income people, it is the difference between having a bit more for food, clothes, education for them and their children, or doing without in one or more of those categories. All good news with lower gas prices and no rise in taxes.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Shifty....mentioned this in another post, but the wife and I figured we'd save $2,000 this year compared with last year based on the drop in gas prices. Nice for us. We'll put that money back into circulation vs to the oil companies or to the gov't in the form of higher taxes.

For low income people, it is the difference between having a bit more for food, clothes, education for them and their children, or doing without in one or more of those categories. All good news with lower gas prices and no rise in taxes.

But, my friend says he lost $50k in the stock market because of the oil bubble. What about the lost spending power of that?

And, what about the 1000s of jobs that are going to be lost......how does that money get made up?

Looks like there will be some winners and some losers, not sure what there will be more of.

graphicguy

Driver....your friend didn't look at the signs with bis investment in oil. Demand going down, more alternative energy options, advances in oil exploration and production... All the signs for a steep price reduction were there. At least in this instance, your friend isn't a very good investor. How does he make that money up? He becomes a better investor. Old adage...never make volatile investments if you aren't willing to lose. Hard to find snything more volatile than oil. Investment best practices weren't going to support the prices we saw last year. Of all people, investment professionals should have realized that and advised your friend of that. The fundamentals just weren't there.

Oil companies got fat. If I were working at big oil, I'd polish the resume. The good news is the cut backs will only happen in just the oil vertical. Just about every other industry will benefit from lower gas prices.

abacomike

Getting released from hospital today and should be home late this afternoon.  Hooray!

imidazol97

Mr_Shiftright said:

TAXES: Well gas tax is a typical regressive tax, applied uniformly, and thus impacting lower income levels more severely.

As I see it the gas tax is paid based on the usage of fuel by most people. So it's a fair tax. People can pick a car that's economical and they can drive less to save fuel taxes. The wealthier people typically drive more and have cars that are more conspicous in terms of consumption, so they'd pay more gas tax for fuel. I never understood why people who had low incomes shouldn't have to pay their way in society for society's costs of infrastructure. Did I miss a page in the Constitution?

Shifting gas tax to higher income persons as the only payers for fuel tax doesn't cut it. The only unfairness in the fuel tax is the EV problem; those folks don't pay the road use tax.

isellhondas

abacomike said:

Getting released from hospital today and should be home late this afternoon.  Hooray!

Good for you Mike!

Now, stay out of there!

Mr_Shiftright

PLS AGREE or DISAGREE with the following statements: (in general, "in vast majority of cases", at current pricing) You may disregard any statement you're not interested in of course.

This is just for my curiosity, to support or undermine my preconceptions.

#1-- it is cheaper to heat your house with natural gas rather than electricity, but both natural gas or electricity are cheaper than propane

#2 -- it is cheaper to run your car on electricity than on gasoline

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

#4.-- over the course of 5 years, it is cheaper to buy a car than to lease it

#5 -- a zero interest car loan is always better than a typical rebate, if given the choice.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Driver....your friend didn't look at the signs with bis investment in oil. Demand going down, more alternative energy options, advances in oil exploration and production... All the signs for a steep price reduction were there. At least in this instance, your friend isn't a very good investor. How does he make that money up? He becomes a better investor. Old adage...never make volatile investments if you aren't willing to lose. Hard to find snything more volatile than oil. Investment best practices weren't going to support the prices we saw last year. Of all people, investment professionals should have realized that and advised your friend of that. The fundamentals just weren't there.

Oil companies got fat. If I were working at big oil, I'd polish the resume. The good news is the cut backs will only happen in just the oil vertical. Just about every other industry will benefit from lower gas prices.

GG, I agree and my friend would probably agree with you. But, it doesn't matter how good of an expert one is, almost no one predicted gas would fall to more than half of it's value. My friend takes his losses....he knows he will lose on some and make it back on others. Personally, I can't live that way....I invest conservatively - and I sleep pretty well at nights. He is a good investor who knows what to look for......he has made a lot and lost a lot in the market....but he seems to win more than loses and he accepts that.

driver100

abacomike said:

Getting released from hospital today and should be home late this afternoon.  Hooray!

Good....I am hoping to come down and see you and I don't want to visit you in the hospital.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

PLS AGREE or DISAGREE with the following statements: (in general, "in vast majority of cases", at current pricing) You may disregard any statement you're not interested in of course.

This is just for my curiosity, to support or undermine my preconceptions.

#1-- it is cheaper to heat your house with natural gas rather than electricity, but both natural gas or electricity are cheaper than propane

#2 -- it is cheaper to run your car on electricity than on gasoline

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

#4.-- over the course of 5 years, it is cheaper to buy a car than to lease it

#5 -- a zero interest car loan is always better than a typical rebate, if given the choice.

I think I agree with all, #1 is a bit questionable because I am not sure about the cost of propane......and it seems #3 might be questionable....I think cars go further on a gallon of deisel so it may work out cheaper.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

#1-- it is cheaper to heat your house with natural gas rather than electricity, but both natural gas or electricity are cheaper than propane
#2 -- it is cheaper to run your car on electricity than on gasoline
#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)
#4.-- over the course of 5 years, it is cheaper to buy a car than to lease it
#5 -- a zero interest car loan is always better than a typical rebate, if given the choice.

#1, 2 depend on the cost of electricity in your area. For us at 5cents/Kwh may not be the same in California, from what posters say

stickguy

Shifty, I think 1-4 is likely "yes", but in my experience, #5 is almost always no. Especially now when normal rates are not that high. The cheaper the car, the better the chance that the rebate will win.

Mr_Shiftright

I was curious about #5 because the finance rags insist that 0% financing is one of the biggest lures to getting people to buy, so I was wondering if they are smart to take this bait most of the time or it is just that--a "lure" meant to cloud the mind, so to speak. I mean, on paper, the idea of "FREE MONEY!" is a pretty good Venus Fly Trap!

In other words, "you can buy THIS car for 2.9% and a $500 rebate....but....BUT...how about this baby over here with the dust on it for ZERO PERCENT?"

"Oh, did I fail to mention that the 0% loans carry shorter loan terms?"

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Shifty, I think 1-4 is likely "yes", but in my experience, #5 is almost always no. Especially now when normal rates are not that high. The cheaper the car, the better the chance that the rebate will win.

In my experience it's better to take the 0% IF:

You had the cash to buy the car outright

And...

You take the cash and invest it for the term of the loan.

In my case the $4000+ I made investing the cash was higher than the $1500 rebate.

I realize that most people wouldn't do it the way I did.

explorerx4

Regarding #5, interest rates are pretty low, it's probably better to take the rebate and pay the interest rate.
A lot of it depends on the interest rate you would pay if you take the rebate and how much you are borrowing.
Back in 2002, when I bought my Explorer, it was 2k rebate or 0% for 5 years. I think I could have gotten a loan for around 5%, so the 0% for 60 months made sense.
2 years ago, when I bought my Fusion, I took the $1500 rebate and got a 2.5% rate for 5 years. Based on what I borrowed, the rebate was a little better, but I paid it off in less than 2 years, so I ended up much better off.

houdini1

driver100 said:

ray80 said:

driver100 said:

Oh Geez....I write about the Edenpure heaters and there are ads appearing for them just above!

See that all the time here and there, have to be careful and not mis-type things also, lest you see things you never wanted to see

Yeh, especially if my wife just happens to be walking by.

I've been meaning to buy one of those things. Thanks for warning me off !!

stickguy

it is really simple to do the analysis. just figure out the monthly payment at the higher SP and 0%, and the payment at the higher interest rate with the rebate deducted. If the rebate plan payment is lower, do it that way. As a side benefit, the amount you owe is going to be lower. A nice bonus if it gets totaled or you sell early.

I do the same thing looking at advertised leases to compare sign and drive vs. put money down to get a lower payment. just calculate the total paid over the lease term. Often the sign and drive ends up being less overall.

bwia

fushigi said:

imidazol97 said:

I'm not sure why the site needs to load in encrypted transfer (httpS:).
Any thoughts?

(IT Security professional here)

That's a good thing, actually. I wish more sites would do all of their traffic, not just their shopping carts & login pages, over https.

When you view a page over SSL that means that your browser has received a certificate from the web server. Public web servers typically use certificates from Certificate Authorities such as Go Daddy, GeoTrust, and Network Solutions. For general internet browsing, this means you can trust that the site is legitimate and your session has not been hijacked or redirected to a malicious entity. (Of course a site being legitimate doesn't mean the company behind it is ethical )

It also means data exchanged (both directions) between your browser & the web server is encrypted. So anyone using a sniffer - hackers, the NSA, etc. - can't see whats being sent.

SSL is good for privacy as well as security.

As an aside, in the old days web servers couldn't handle that much SSL traffic because the encryption overhead took a lot of CPU power. Nowadays CPU power is abundant and there are SSL accelerator appliances that companies commonly deploy in front of a web server farm. SSL overhead is now barely a consideration.

@fushigi thanks for that. Very well and very informative.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

PLS AGREE or DISAGREE with the following statements: (in general, "in vast majority of cases", at current pricing) You may disregard any statement you're not interested in of course.

This is just for my curiosity, to support or undermine my preconceptions.

#1-- it is cheaper to heat your house with natural gas rather than electricity, but both natural gas or electricity are cheaper than propane

#2 -- it is cheaper to run your car on electricity than on gasoline

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

#4.-- over the course of 5 years, it is cheaper to buy a car than to lease it

#5 -- a zero interest car loan is always better than a typical rebate, if given the choice.

My perceptions agree with yours.

abacomike

Mr_Shiftright said:

PLS AGREE or DISAGREE with the following statements: (in general, "in vast majority of cases", at current pricing) You may disregard any statement you're not interested in of course. This is just for my curiosity, to support or undermine my preconceptions. #1-- it is cheaper to heat your house with natural gas rather than electricity, but both natural gas or electricity are cheaper than propane #2 -- it is cheaper to run your car on electricity than on gasoline #3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only) #4.-- over the course of 5 years, it is cheaper to buy a car than to lease it #5 -- a zero interest car loan is always better than a typical rebate, if given the choice.

#1. Agree
#2. Agree
#3. Disagree
#4. In most cases, yes, but not all.
#5. Disagree - at 0%, you save $600 assuming a $30,000 car if interest rates are 2%.  Most rebates are $1500-$2000.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

That's it, rub it in the faces of us poor souls suffering at 20 degrees with a 3 day snow snow storm looming.

A 3-day snow storm? I've had enough snow for my winter. I'm looking forward to some days in the 40s now.
Today we've got a bright Florida sun and clear skies. Temp going up. Convertible weather here.

Oh, be quiet. We had 3 pretty bad storms in the last 10 days or so. This last one really crippled us as there is getting to be nowhere to push the snow. Streets are very narrow and poorly cleared. I think the crews are worn out, or maybe the budget is blown. Lots of complaints and accidents due to slick conditions. I hate winter.

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

Shifty, I think 1-4 is likely "yes", but in my experience, #5 is almost always no. Especially now when normal rates are not that high. The cheaper the car, the better the chance that the rebate will win.

In my experience it's better to take the 0% IF:

You had the cash to buy the car outright

And...

You take the cash and invest it for the term of the loan.

In my case the $4000+ I made investing the cash was higher than the $1500 rebate.

I realize that most people wouldn't do it the way I did.

OK, but as stated above, with interest rates where they are, you'd likely be looking at less than $1k interest, so you should take the $1500 rebate, still do the financing, and still invest your cash. You'd still get your $4k investment money but you would have spent $500 less on the car in the process.

isellhondas

I agree on 1-4 but 5 is questionable. " Someone" is paying the interest rate. It may be rolled into the price of the car or possibly the dealer is paying part of it.

.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

#1-- it is cheaper to heat your house with natural gas rather than electricity, but both natural gas or electricity are cheaper than propane

#2 -- it is cheaper to run your car on electricity than on gasoline

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

#4.-- over the course of 5 years, it is cheaper to buy a car than to lease it

#5 -- a zero interest car loan is always better than a typical rebate, if given the choice.

1. agree with part 1. no idea on propane cost.
2. depends on the cars and the weather. my experience showed me that, in the winter, the Leaf was worse than pretty much any economy car.
3. I'm not sure of the cars in this case. I'm thinking Prius vs Jetta TDI?? In which case, I might have to disagree as I think the depreciation on the Prius vs the VW is going to make it more expensive in the end. You'd also have to know the amortization. If we're talking 200k miles, the Prius may need battery replacement, for example.
4. Again, depends. There are way too many variables here. An expensive car with brutal deprecation and high repair costs out of warranty is not a good purchase proposition.
5. Disagree based on the rates where they currently are.

Mr_Shiftright

Well on # 3, I was thinking of a gas car vs a diesel strictly in terms of cost per mile for fuel---nothing about resale, etc. More like cost per mile for fuel at today's prices over say 60,000 miles.

#1--I think in the NE of the U.S at least, propane would be at least 20% more expensive, but I'm only going on memory of the cost of a 5 gal. bottle, not filling up one of those Giganto tanks next to the house. Maybe the big diff between propane and natural gas is the delivery costs. You know, like the difference between city water or having the Alhambra truck bring it to you in 5 gallon jugs

stever

I just got a new water heater and the guy mistakenly drug a natural gas one to the house first and uncrated it. I knew something was wrong when the energy guide was under $300 a year. The propane one he fetched is rated at just under $700 a year.

The current diesel/regular gas differential here is between .75 cents and $1.00 a gallon. But who knows over 60,000 miles what the prices will do. Still, it's pretty rare for the two fuels to be close, and even more rare for diesel to be cheaper than regular. Premium is a different story.

explorerx4

I have a new high efficiency 50 gallon gas water. The sticker has $255 on it. I didn't check the cost per cubic foot.

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

I agree on 1-4 but 5 is questionable. " Someone" is paying the interest rate. It may be rolled into the price of the car or possibly the dealer is paying part of it.

.

That's a good point. Who knows if I could have gotten a lower price for the car (beyond the $1500 rebate) if I didn't take the 0% financing. As it was I took the $26k and threw it in a Vanguard bond fund that was paying 6% at the time. A little riskier than a CD but it worked out for me.

Back then auto loan we're going for about 5-6% so the company was giving up that same 4 grand that I made by giving me 0%.

abacomike

I was just researching gas prices using my GasBuddy App.  The Chevron stations I use have raised their prices on PUG by 14 cents per gallon since Sunday and the Costco I use has raised their prices 18 cents per gallon for PUG since Sunday.  Looks like gasoline prices are on their way up again.

Got home about 5:30 PM from the hospital and just fell into bed.  I have to slowly build up my strength again.  I had to twist my doctor's arm to get out tonight - she wanted to keep me at the hospital for at least one more day.  Had to get home to take care of my Dad.  He deteriorates quickly if I am not around to support him.

My brother is really enjoying his new E400 Cabriolet.  White with that Designo Red Leather interior and red convertible top must be a knockout.  He feels the Cabriolet is a more compatible vehicle for him due to his bad back - and I agree.

Well, going to get some rest and hopefully some sleep.  It is impossible to sleep at night in a hospital.  If it's not blood tests at 4:00 AM, vitals at 10:00 PM, 2:00 AM, 4:00 AM, 6:00 AM, etc., it's respiratory therapy every 4 hours for breathing treatments or blood sugar tests every 4 hours.  Not a particularly inviting vacation spot, to be sure.

Good to be finally home.

oldbearcat

Mr_Shiftright said:

PLS AGREE or DISAGREE with the following statements: (in general, "in vast majority of cases", at current pricing) You may disregard any statement you're not interested in of course.

This is just for my curiosity, to support or undermine my preconceptions.

#1-- it is cheaper to heat your house with natural gas rather than electricity, but both natural gas or electricity are cheaper than propane

#2 -- it is cheaper to run your car on electricity than on gasoline

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

#4.-- over the course of 5 years, it is cheaper to buy a car

#5 -- a zero interest car loan is always better than a typical rebate, if given the choice.

1. This depends on your equipment, typical Winter weather for your area, and utility rates. In my area, it takes 95% efficiency gas equipment to beat/equal a high efficiency electric heat pump system. I agree on propane, and, the propane fired stuff usually requires more maintenance than electric or gas, because it burns "dirty".
2. Not always - some electric utilities now have rates that impose extra costs if one is charging an electric car at home at night.
3. Don't know - I once saw an article in one of the car magazines that indicated the cost comparison was very close, but, that was done before the prices fell to their current levels.
4. I agree.
5. I agree, unless the rebates are exceptional. The best route to go is easily calculated in Excel.

Regards:
Oldengineer

roadburner

Hang in there Mike- better times lie ahead.

driver100

isellhondas said:

I agree on 1-4 but 5 is questionable. " Someone" is paying the interest rate. It may be rolled into the price of the car or possibly the dealer is paying part of it.

.

That's what I was always taught...you don't get nothin for nothin. If you buy a car and you get 0% interest, you have to pay for it somewhere......so the car companies just build it into the price of the car. Same with a rebate.

Occassionally car companies want to move product, so they will lend money at lower rates or give up some profit by lowering their margins, but basically the real final cost will be about the same.

Aren't car companies shooting themselves in the foot a bit with 0% interest, they may lose cash customers? What happens if a car is advertised at 0% interest and you insist on paying cash?

Oldfarmer invested his money and took the low cost loan - not everyone would want to do that (I would).

driver100

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

About #3, I just looked it up and with diesel you get 33% more miles per gallon, so it would seem diesel still may cost less overall.

MPG diesel vs gas

driver100

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

ray80 said:

driver100 said:

Oh Geez....I write about the Edenpure heaters and there are ads appearing for them just above!

See that all the time here and there, have to be careful and not mis-type things also, lest you see things you never wanted to see

Yeh, especially if my wife just happens to be walking by.

I've been meaning to buy one of those things. Thanks for warning me off !!

If even one person was saved from buying one of those heaters that's good. I have seen the ads and always thought they were nice little units. But, the buy by midnight and pay $99 instead of $499 made my B.S. detector alarm go off.

My S-I-L bought one before calling me telling me to buy one....I don't want to tell her how bad it is. In her case, perception will be her reality.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

Had to get home to take care of my Dad.  He deteriorates quickly if I am not around to support him. ... Good to be finally home.

Glad to hear you're home and can rest and build back up. Was anyone checking on your dad while you were in the hospital? Is he able to be completely on his own?

jayrider

driver100 said:

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

About #3, I just looked it up and with diesel you get 33% more miles per gallon, so it would seem diesel still may cost less overall.

MPG diesel vs gas

The article says that diesel is typically 20 cents more than rug. Not in my neighborhood. Buy a diesel because you like diesels -- the financial benefits or lack thereof shouldn't be the main factor.

driver100

jayrider said:

driver100 said:

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

About #3, I just looked it up and with diesel you get 33% more miles per gallon, so it would seem diesel still may cost less overall.

MPG diesel vs gas

The article says that diesel is typically 20 cents more than rug. Not in my neighborhood. Buy a diesel because you like diesels -- the financial benefits or lack thereof shouldn't be the main factor.

But, if gas is $2 a gallon and diesel is $2.60 (not sure what it is right now...and this is a very unusual circumstance since gas suddenly became comparitively inexpensive)), then anything under $3 a gallon for diesel would be less (33% better mpg).

ab348

abacomike said:

Got home about 5:30 PM from the hospital and just fell into bed.  I have to slowly build up my strength again.  I had to twist my doctor's arm to get out tonight - she wanted to keep me at the hospital for at least one more day.  Had to get home to take care of my Dad.  He deteriorates quickly if I am not around to support him.

My brother is really enjoying his new E400 Cabriolet.  White with that Designo Red Leather interior and red convertible top must be a knockout.  He feels the Cabriolet is a more compatible vehicle for him due to his bad back - and I agree.

Well, going to get some rest and hopefully some sleep.  It is impossible to sleep at night in a hospital.  If it's not blood tests at 4:00 AM, vitals at 10:00 PM, 2:00 AM, 4:00 AM, 6:00 AM, etc., it's respiratory therapy every 4 hours for breathing treatments or blood sugar tests every 4 hours.  Not a particularly inviting vacation spot, to be sure.

Good to be finally home.

Glad to hear you're out of the human garage. I had a similar experience 5 years ago when I was hospitalized for 3 weeks total in two separate visits - first for heart surgery, then after about 6 weeks, back in for 2 weeks due to complications. Both times I couldn't wait to get home because the experience is so bad even aside from whatever the ailment is. You described it perfectly, constant interruptions or demands. In my case I found there were times I needed help and it was hard to get someone to look at whatever the issue was, then when you just wanted to rest they kept interrupting it. Some of the staff were great while others were downright miserable or borderline incompetent. I remember that 4 days after my initial surgery when I was still as weak as a kitten they put me in a ward with 3 other people and it was just constant bedlam, no rest possible. I convinced the docs to let me go home the next day even though I could barely walk 20 feet. I just do not understand the culture of hospitals.

thebean

ab348 said:

Glad to hear you're out of the human garage. I had a similar experience 5 years ago when I was hospitalized for 3 weeks total in two separate visits - first for heart surgery, then after about 6 weeks, back in for 2 weeks due to complications. Both times I couldn't wait to get home because the experience is so bad even aside from whatever the ailment is. You described it perfectly, constant interruptions or demands. In my case I found there were times I needed help and it was hard to get someone to look at whatever the issue was, then when you just wanted to rest they kept interrupting it. Some of the staff were great while others were downright miserable or borderline incompetent. I remember that 4 days after my initial surgery when I was still as weak as a kitten they put me in a ward with 3 other people and it was just constant bedlam, no rest possible. I convinced the docs to let me go home the next day even though I could barely walk 20 feet. I just do not understand the culture of hospitals.

I actually had an excellent experience in a hospital last summer.  Prostate surgery and admittedly only 1 night in the hospital.  But everyone was very competent and cheerful without exception.  Doctor was one of the best in the nation in urology and I felt totally confident in him.  It was unlike any health care experience I have ever had - amazing how much better it was than prior surgeries.  This was a hospital that was part of large university medical school.  When health care is done right, it can make a huge difference.  I don't know why all hospitals couldn't be this good.

ab348

thebean said:

I actually had an excellent experience in a hospital last summer.  Prostate surgery and admittedly only 1 night in the hospital.  But everyone was very competent and cheerful without exception.  Doctor was one of the best in the nation in urology and I felt totally confident in him.  It was unlike any health care experience I have ever had - amazing how much better it was than prior surgeries.  This was a hospital that was part of large university medical school.  When health care is done right, it can make a huge difference.  I don't know why all hospitals couldn't be this good.

Mine was also at a large teaching hospital and I think that is one of the reasons I had some of the troubles I did. The student doctors did most of the work on me and being students they did not get everything right. I was told later that I was bleeding internally for weeks which went undiagnosed and, once that was discovered, the error was compounded when a chest tube was inserted incorrectly and damaged me internally. The result of all that was a loss of capacity in my left lung that I will need to live with for the rest of my life.

jayrider

driver100 said:

jayrider said:

driver100 said:

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

About #3, I just looked it up and with diesel you get 33% more miles per gallon, so it would seem diesel still may cost less overall.

MPG diesel vs gas

The article says that diesel is typically 20 cents more than rug. Not in my neighborhood. Buy a diesel because you like diesels -- the financial benefits or lack thereof shouldn't be the main factor.

But, if gas is $2 a gallon and diesel is $2.60 (not sure what it is right now...and this is a very unusual circumstance since gas suddenly became comparitively inexpensive)), then anything under $3 a gallon for diesel would be less (33% better mpg).


Diesel in my neighborhood averages $1.30 more per gallon than rug and $1 more than pug.

driver100

jayrider said:

driver100 said:

jayrider said:

driver100 said:

#3-- it is cheaper per mile to run the highest MPG gasoline car than the highest MPG diesel car. (USA only)

About #3, I just looked it up and with diesel you get 33% more miles per gallon, so it would seem diesel still may cost less overall.

MPG diesel vs gas

The article says that diesel is typically 20 cents more than rug. Not in my neighborhood. Buy a diesel because you like diesels -- the financial benefits or lack thereof shouldn't be the main factor.

But, if gas is $2 a gallon and diesel is $2.60 (not sure what it is right now...and this is a very unusual circumstance since gas suddenly became comparitively inexpensive)), then anything under $3 a gallon for diesel would be less (33% better mpg).

Diesel in my neighborhood averages $1.30 more per gallon than rug and $1 more than pug.


I checked stations here and reg was $2.20 and diesel $2.80. It must really vary across the country.

abacomike

Down here in South Florida, according to my GasBuddy App, diesel is running 5-6 cents a gallon more than PUL.  With diesel prices being so low, diesel would be the preferred engine/fuel for high mpg's.