That does sound like a great buy. The others along the side of the page sound pretty good too, higher price but newer and fewer miles.
Oh no...I did quote instead of edit! What I was going to add was........ When did they add doc fees to used cars? There couldn't possibly be $600 worth of work to transfer ownership. Next they will want to add $250 transportation fee, to get car from the garage onto the used car lot. :@
There’s probably no more work on a used car than a new car so the bulk of any doc fee is just dealer profit. Silly really since I would just factor a NY $75 doc fee or a $600 CT fee into the total price and deduct accordingly.
Depending on the volume of business the cost associated with handling documentation would run between 30 and 70 yankee greenbacks. Anything else is pure profit.
Just wondering...probably more for paperwork on a new car...but, don't you just transfer the ownership on a used car?
I would think that it would be the same for new and used cars, title transfer and registration.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That does sound like a great buy. The others along the side of the page sound pretty good too, higher price but newer and fewer miles.
Oh no...I did quote instead of edit! What I was going to add was........ When did they add doc fees to used cars? There couldn't possibly be $600 worth of work to transfer ownership. Next they will want to add $250 transportation fee, to get car from the garage onto the used car lot. :@
There’s probably no more work on a used car than a new car so the bulk of any doc fee is just dealer profit. Silly really since I would just factor a NY $75 doc fee or a $600 CT fee into the total price and deduct accordingly.
Depending on the volume of business the cost associated with handling documentation would run between 30 and 70 yankee greenbacks. Anything else is pure profit.
Just wondering...probably more for paperwork on a new car...but, don't you just transfer the ownership on a used car?
I would think that it would be the same for new and used cars, title transfer and registration.
Title transfer and and registration........for $600! We should have the option of being able to do it ourselves. But, I think there is more to it. When we bought the 2014 C (used at the time) we had about 25 pages to look over, read and sign.....for the first time it was all done on a laptop, that was new for the dealer. The Guy said there were more papers to sign for a car, than if you were buying a house. It probably took about 30 minutes. I suppose DOC fees include ALL of the paperwork.
Doc fees really are just a profit center for the dealer.
You pay for the registration and any county/state fees. They process the paperwork in bulk, probably 10-15 cars at a time. It may take a person 2 hours.
Let's say they are paid 50K / year. That's about $24/ hour. Let's round up to $50 for 10 cars of paperwork.
$5.00 a car and they charge each customer hundreds.
This is one reason they can sell cars at a "loss".
time in the finance office to go through and sign all the stuff is just part of overhead, and should be included in the sales price. Same way the lights, lot boy that moves cars around, and free bottles of water are. The only legit extra charges are government fees (title cost, registration, plates). Maybe a charge if someone has to physically go to the DMV office, or there is overnight shipping charges. I do know some dealers use a 3rd party company for out of state buyers (basically hire someone in that state to go to the DMV office).
Maybe Mike can confirm, but I recall reading that a lot of dealers now are tied into the DMV directly, so don't even have to send a runner to wait on line at DMV (where, at least in NJ, there is a special dealers only line, but not sure if mostly smaller used car lots do that).
It sounds good to say just DIY it, but dealers won't do that, because they can't ever be sure you really did go register the car.
I know at our local DMV they have a sign that says “no dealers after 4:00” which to me means they do the paperwork in bulk. Who they send, I don’t know. In my state it’s $50 for title and $25 for plates ($75). You also have a 2 year registration fee based on weight (about $60 for a 3600lb. Car) Dealers also have to coordinate with your insurance company (mine will Fax them the insurance card.) Sales tax is separate but paid by the buyer.
So cost to the dealer in NY is theoretically about $135 but I’ve always seen that added into to final cost of the car. In fact, on my last car they overcharged me $65 because they wouldn’t accept that there was still the bulk of the old car’s registration credit and I didn’t need new plates. To their credit they refunded the overcharge.
Even if they have to physically send someone to the DMV I can’t see $600 being justified. I think it’s just another way for dealers to get more money from uninformed buyers. Most posters on this board just factor a doc fee into the deal and deduct it from their offer. The dealer is counting on the ignorance of your average buyer.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That does sound like a great buy. The others along the side of the page sound pretty good too, higher price but newer and fewer miles.
Oh no...I did quote instead of edit! What I was going to add was........ When did they add doc fees to used cars? There couldn't possibly be $600 worth of work to transfer ownership. Next they will want to add $250 transportation fee, to get car from the garage onto the used car lot. :@
There’s probably no more work on a used car than a new car so the bulk of any doc fee is just dealer profit. Silly really since I would just factor a NY $75 doc fee or a $600 CT fee into the total price and deduct accordingly.
Depending on the volume of business the cost associated with handling documentation would run between 30 and 70 yankee greenbacks. Anything else is pure profit.
Just wondering...probably more for paperwork on a new car...but, don't you just transfer the ownership on a used car?
I would think that it would be the same for new and used cars, title transfer and registration.
Title transfer and and registration........for $600! We should have the option of being able to do it ourselves. But, I think there is more to it. When we bought the 2014 C (used at the time) we had about 25 pages to look over, read and sign.....for the first time it was all done on a laptop, that was new for the dealer. The Guy said there were more papers to sign for a car, than if you were buying a house. It probably took about 30 minutes. I suppose DOC fees include ALL of the paperwork.
yep that much for someone to take a couple of minutes of data entry. That's why one should negotiate the out the door price.
Anyone who says there are more papers to sign buying a car than buying a house hasn't bought a house.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Doc fees really are just a profit center for the dealer.
You pay for the registration and any county/state fees. They process the paperwork in bulk, probably 10-15 cars at a time. It may take a person 2 hours.
Let's say they are paid 50K / year. That's about $24/ hour. Let's round up to $50 for 10 cars of paperwork.
$5.00 a car and they charge each customer hundreds.
This is one reason they can sell cars at a "loss".
This day and age processing the paperwork is done individually by the finance guy (gal?) when you do all that paperwork. It's all done online. All your paperwork is done and in the states system before you hit the road.
Last month when we bought the BMW we had the new plates on the car and the registration paperwork before we drove away.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I had one dealer I think that actually was a full mini DMV office, in that they had a supply of real plates. Usually you get a temp tag and your real plates arrive a couple weeks later.
The doc fee is absolutely just extra revenue. The pass through DMV fees are all separate line items, as is sales tax. So you pay the hard government costs itemized out. The $299-$399 doc fee is added after all those, and goes straight into dealer pocket.
The doc fees are the result of lobbying power with your state legislators: the kickbacks must be like third world countries to the legislators for voting these things in against the interest of their constituents. The auto dealers have money power apparently.
Ask your legislators about dropping the doc fee to the amount charged by BMV plus actual labor cost, if any, if someone goes to the BMW title office to transfer it. They'll try to act like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ours quietly changed the wording of the legislation applicable a few years back. It used to justify the doc fee for time payment forms costs of preparation (loan agreements). If someone paid cash, the doc fee was not applicable, in my humble legal opinion.
My last used car purchase at the Voss group around Dayton had the salesman justify the doc fee because the dealership had to pay the cost of the computer equipment for retaining those records for 10 years or some number like that. LOL
You could legislate tomorrow to remove that fee from the bottom of the form. It will just end up on the top line. Not going to lower what you pay in total.
I had one dealer I think that actually was a full mini DMV office, in that they had a supply of real plates. Usually you get a temp tag and your real plates arrive a couple weeks later.
The doc fee is absolutely just extra revenue. The pass through DMV fees are all separate line items, as is sales tax. So you pay the hard government costs itemized out. The $299-$399 doc fee is added after all those, and goes straight into dealer pocket.
How about $899? Do you think Florida dealers are using some gold-plated computer terminals, justifying their "predelivery" fee? Of course all but some really small portion goes into the dealer pocket. But this way they can advertise "below invoice" price, give their salespeople mini/zero commissions (the fee is usually excluded from commission base) and still keep good money for the owner. "Everybody" wins, right?
Why only $899? They should put five, or better ten grand there, cause why not? State doesn't care, apparently, so go ahead. I wait for "you pay $1" ad with $24999 dealer prep fee. It's coming and it will happen here, in Sunshine State.
Doc fees really are just a profit center for the dealer.
You pay for the registration and any county/state fees. They process the paperwork in bulk, probably 10-15 cars at a time. It may take a person 2 hours.
Let's say they are paid 50K / year. That's about $24/ hour. Let's round up to $50 for 10 cars of paperwork.
$5.00 a car and they charge each customer hundreds.
This is one reason they can sell cars at a "loss".
This day and age processing the paperwork is done individually by the finance guy (gal?) when you do all that paperwork. It's all done online. All your paperwork is done and in the states system before you hit the road.
Last month when we bought the BMW we had the new plates on the car and the registration paperwork before we drove away.
Not in Jersey. I’ve never received my registration or plates when I bought the car. AFAIK they still have runners that go to the DMV. I’ve seen them there.
@qbrozen@stickguy have you ever received your plates/NJ registration at time of delivery?
I’ve heard the commission scam reason, but that isn’t something the buyer should know or care about.
I think dealers do it because they can’t lose. Like you said, it lets them advertise lower prices. Plus, if they go with normal prices (or internet TMV type stuff), while some people are smart enough to negotiate OTD, plenty will focus only on the good top line deal, and pay the doc fee without thinking. So dealer makes a killing on some deals, normal on the rest.
It's not all that different from lawyers and their fees on transfer of real property, even if you live in an area with a land titles system. My brother just went through this. The gov fee for processing a change of ownership on a piece of real property is something like $110. Now, the lawyer's office has to do some paperwork for that, but having titles means there is no need for a deed search like there used to be and it is far simpler. They still charge over $1000 for it. To add insult to injury, when he got the package of documents back from the lawyer there were several errors and typos.
time in the finance office to go through and sign all the stuff is just part of overhead, and should be included in the sales price. Same way the lights, lot boy that moves cars around, and free bottles of water are. The only legit extra charges are government fees (title cost, registration, plates). Maybe a charge if someone has to physically go to the DMV office, or there is overnight shipping charges. I do know some dealers use a 3rd party company for out of state buyers (basically hire someone in that state to go to the DMV office).
Maybe Mike can confirm, but I recall reading that a lot of dealers now are tied into the DMV directly, so don't even have to send a runner to wait on line at DMV (where, at least in NJ, there is a special dealers only line, but not sure if mostly smaller used car lots do that).
It sounds good to say just DIY it, but dealers won't do that, because they can't ever be sure you really did go register the car.
Yes, 90% of dealers down here issue stickers (to attach to license plates) and vehicle registration paperwork as part of the paperwork process. They are tied in directly to the Florida DMV.
I had one dealer I think that actually was a full mini DMV office, in that they had a supply of real plates. Usually you get a temp tag and your real plates arrive a couple weeks later.
The doc fee is absolutely just extra revenue. The pass through DMV fees are all separate line items, as is sales tax. So you pay the hard government costs itemized out. The $299-$399 doc fee is added after all those, and goes straight into dealer pocket.
How about $899? Do you think Florida dealers are using some gold-plated computer terminals, justifying their "predelivery" fee? Of course all but some really small portion goes into the dealer pocket. But this way they can advertise "below invoice" price, give their salespeople mini/zero commissions (the fee is usually excluded from commission base) and still keep good money for the owner. "Everybody" wins, right?
Why only $899? They should put five, or better ten grand there, cause why not? State doesn't care, apparently, so go ahead. I wait for "you pay $1" ad with $24999 dealer prep fee. It's coming and it will happen here, in Sunshine State.
$899 is the Dealer Services Fee according to my printed buyers order. It is pure added profit for the dealer - nothing else!
By the way, here in Florida actual government fee (tag, title transfer, registration, etc.) are charged separately, so the "documentation/predelivery/whatever I can get" fee was originally born to compensate for the labor involved with preparation of those documents, but very quickly evolved to free for all, I take anything I can, because the state decided it's not their business to control these amounts. They did mandate better disclosure, like posting the fee on every car they sell, so the customers know before they go into the office.
Each state has different vehicle registration processes and different levels of automation.
When I lived in PA and left 7 years ago, everything was electronic - you left the dealer with your physical license plate and a temporary registration paper and within a week or so they mailed you your registration card and sticker. Now you don't even get stickers. I believe the doc fee is capped in PA though - I want to say it was capped out under $200 when I left.
Now in WA, the doc fee is capped at $150 and in OR it is capped at $115. For WA, you are issued a paper temp tag that goes in your back window good for 90 days. Usually within 60 days you get your plates. Nothing is electronic for the initial plate issuing unless you are taking it to an actual licensing office. My penance for such a low doc fee is incredibly high registration costs - the i3 was over $700 for year 1 and 10.5% tax on payments/incentives.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
The doc fees are the result of lobbying power with your state legislators: the kickbacks must be like third world countries to the legislators for voting these things in against the interest of their constituents. The auto dealers have money power apparently.
Ask your legislators about dropping the doc fee to the amount charged by BMV plus actual labor cost, if any, if someone goes to the BMW title office to transfer it. They'll try to act like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ours quietly changed the wording of the legislation applicable a few years back. It used to justify the doc fee for time payment forms costs of preparation (loan agreements). If someone paid cash, the doc fee was not applicable, in my humble legal opinion.
My last used car purchase at the Voss group around Dayton had the salesman justify the doc fee because the dealership had to pay the cost of the computer equipment for retaining those records for 10 years or some number like that. LOL
That salesman did have a point. Computers are used to process the paperwork and store the data. Now of course the computers are also used for other things and storage medium is cheap but there still is a cost. Of course that cost is very low and doesnt warrant hundreds of dollars in fees to cover it. Most dealerships would make a nice profit at $50 doc fees.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I’ve heard the commission scam reason, but that isn’t something the buyer should know or care about.
I think dealers do it because they can’t lose. Like you said, it lets them advertise lower prices. Plus, if they go with normal prices (or internet TMV type stuff), while some people are smart enough to negotiate OTD, plenty will focus only on the good top line deal, and pay the doc fee without thinking. So dealer makes a killing on some deals, normal on the rest.
My SIL is like that, he keeps saying when they buy their next car they are coming up here to avoid the hugh Florida Doc fees. I keep telling him to ignore it and just concentrate on the total out the door price. Charge me whatever Doc fee you want just take a corresponding amount off the price of the car. A 25k car with no doc fee is priced the same as a 24k car with a 1k doc fee.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My SIL is like that, he keeps saying when they buy their next car they are coming up here to avoid the hugh Florida Doc fees. I keep telling him to ignore it and just concentrate on the total out the door price. Charge me whatever Doc fee you want just take a corresponding amount off the price of the car. A 25k car with no doc fee is priced the same as a 24k car with a 1k doc fee.
The only difference may (or may not) be sales tax. Dealer fees are taxable, but if the sales tax is charged separately from "vehicle price", local surcharge may apply. Here in Hillsborough county we have (now highest in the state) 1.5% local sales tax, but only up to first $5000. I'm just not sure if the cap is applied to the whole transaction, or each item separately. If the former, than the breakdown doesn't make a difference, but if the latter, then the tax on say $900 "fee" is now 1.5% higher, i.e whole $13.50, so you just lost your next lunch
I never got the plates at purchase. I just have it in my head once talking to one of the dealers I was shopping at, and being told they actually could issue plates (the Honda dealer I think). But I could be hallucinating it!
Usually it takes a couple weeks. Makes it easy to tell when people got a new car, since they have the paper plate on the back. Used to be a window sticker.
Generally, those fees are just an irritation. Make a straightforward comparison shopping a little harder, which is probably one of the reasons they exist. Car retail industry (in the aggregate) is bent on creating as much confusion in the consumer mind, as possible. This way somebody can always claim they will "beat the price" and technically not lie.
I never got the plates at purchase. I just have it in my head once talking to one of the dealers I was shopping at, and being told they actually could issue plates (the Honda dealer I think). But I could be hallucinating it!
Usually it takes a couple weeks. Makes it easy to tell when people got a new car, since they have the paper plate on the back. Used to be a window sticker.
I cant even remember the last time I saw a temp tag on a car that wasn't from out of state (and I rarely see out of state ones). Even with my motorcycle from a small dealer I left with my plates.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In Colorado, license plates are managed at the county level. When I leased the Jetta, I did so from a dealer in Denver County. However, I live in Douglas County, so the dealer sends notification to the county offices about the transaction, and I get a 60 day temporary tag.
The county then sends me a post card with the purchase price and other vehicle info on it; I take that, plus proof of insurance, to the county offices, write my check, and they issue the plates then and there.
You could legislate tomorrow to remove that fee from the bottom of the form. It will just end up on the top line. Not going to lower what you pay in total.
You could legislate tomorrow to remove that fee from the bottom of the form. It will just end up on the top line. Not going to lower what you pay in total.
As I said, the doc fee is to snare the uninformed buyer. The reason I was looking at CT dealers is that their prices seemed to be about $500 less than NY. Once I read the fine print I saw why.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I never got the plates at purchase. I just have it in my head once talking to one of the dealers I was shopping at, and being told they actually could issue plates (the Honda dealer I think). But I could be hallucinating it!
Usually it takes a couple weeks. Makes it easy to tell when people got a new car, since they have the paper plate on the back. Used to be a window sticker.
I think in NY plates require a trip to the DMV. Whenever I’ve purchased a new car the plates were on it upon delivery. Certainly when I buy a hooptie I have to go to the DMV. I don’t think NY issues temp plates and I read a while ago that they don’t honor temp tags from other states either. So theoretically if you buy a car in Florida and drive it home with temp tags you could be ticketed. Sounds stupid enough to be a NY law.
A friend bought a car in CT and returned home to NY with temp tags without trouble so it must not be a big police priority.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Each state has different vehicle registration processes and different levels of automation.
When I lived in PA and left 7 years ago, everything was electronic - you left the dealer with your physical license plate and a temporary registration paper and within a week or so they mailed you your registration card and sticker. Now you don't even get stickers. I believe the doc fee is capped in PA though - I want to say it was capped out under $200 when I left.
$141 doc fee, not significant enough for me to raise a fuss over.
Everything is as you note, when we bought the truck I had a permanent plate but temporary registration slip. A week later the permanent registration card came in the mail. One of the bigger changes is that with no more plate stickers PA gives you the option to do a 2 year registration when you renew.
1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Honda Passport Sport - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
Now it's official, summer's really over as I got my first TPMS warning for left rear tire this am. Down 8-9lbs, quick fill up with my compressor. I'll check 3 others tonight or tomorrow morning when they're again cold.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
In CT, you used to get your plates immediately. Then they changed to paper temps, but are now back to having the dealer be able to issue you a real plate again.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Here in Nova Scotia we have a plate-to-owner system. When you buy a new car the sales guy takes off the plate from your trade-in/turn-in and puts it on the new one. They submit the paperwork and you get a new registration certificate in the mail.
If you are adding a car to your fleet they issue a paper temporary permit and submit the paperwork, and your new plates come in the mail with the registration.
Now it's official, summer's really over as I got my first TPMS warning for left rear tire this am. Down 8-9lbs, quick fill up with my compressor. I'll check 3 others tonight or tomorrow morning when they're again cold.
My left front tire needed air. I figured it was low for the same reason. The second time the TMPS light came on I was eyeball to eyball with a screw in the tread when filling with air.
In Jersey you can keep the plates and transfer the registration over. So if I trade in a car I own, can swap the plates over to the new one. The hassle is on a lease. Technically the plates belong to the leasing company, so you can't put your old ones on, or keep the new ones when the car goes back.
I still have the plates off my Elantra since that was a 3 year initial registration. If I bought a car tomorrow I could throw them on it and pay a small fee to transfer the rest of the registration over to it.
After the plant tour today it was back to the Performance Center to watch several classic BMW race cars put through their paces. Saw an M2C in Hockenheim Silver with a sweet aftermarket exhaust. Yes, I’m almost certain that will be my next car assuming I don’t tweak the M235i up a couple of notches.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Now it's official, summer's really over as I got my first TPMS warning for left rear tire this am. Down 8-9lbs, quick fill up with my compressor. I'll check 3 others tonight or tomorrow morning when they're again cold.
Every car we delivered to dealers in the cold rain yesterday had a tire pressure light on. I just filled the tires on my cargo van and they were all down 5-10 lbs.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In Jersey you can keep the plates and transfer the registration over. So if I trade in a car I own, can swap the plates over to the new one. The hassle is on a lease. Technically the plates belong to the leasing company, so you can't put your old ones on, or keep the new ones when the car goes back.
I still have the plates off my Elantra since that was a 3 year initial registration. If I bought a car tomorrow I could throw them on it and pay a small fee to transfer the rest of the registration over to it.
When I got the 2017 Enclave they transferred the plates. Same leasing company, first time that ever happened to me
The MS3 and Clubman both would trigger the TPMS when the weather turned cold. I prefer the M235i system as it reads PSI down to 1/10 of a pound. The newer ones read temperature as well- which is extremely helpful on the track.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Now it's official, summer's really over as I got my first TPMS warning for left rear tire this am. Down 8-9lbs, quick fill up with my compressor. I'll check 3 others tonight or tomorrow morning when they're again cold.
Yep, found that out yesterday too while driving Mrs. j's 2018 Subie Legacy. But her TPMS is screwed up, here's why:
After driving for about 15 minutes the TPMS light comes on and the display shows the pressure in all 4 tires is 27 PSI but the display shows the left front and right rear tires are the guilty ones, HUH ?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
No such thing as instant plates in NJ. Doubt it will happen since that would probably eliminate a number of MVC jobs that are occupied by friends and family of someone in favor.
I was just there again today to register the Charger. Took about 30 mins this time. Cost with tax and tags was $825.
Speaking of temp tags, when I went to replace it, I noticed something that previously escaped me. I have a special plate frame.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
No such thing as instant plates in NJ. Doubt it will happen since that would probably eliminate a number of MVC jobs that are occupied by friends and family of someone in favor.
I was just there again today to register the Charger. Took about 30 mins this time. Cost with tax and tags was $825.
Speaking of temp tags, when I went to replace it, I noticed something that previously escaped me. I have a special plate frame.
Nice car but that registration fee is a gouge.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Comments
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We should have the option of being able to do it ourselves.
But, I think there is more to it. When we bought the 2014 C (used at the time) we had about 25 pages to look over, read and sign.....for the first time it was all done on a laptop, that was new for the dealer. The Guy said there were more papers to sign for a car, than if you were buying a house. It probably took about 30 minutes. I suppose DOC fees include ALL of the paperwork.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You pay for the registration and any county/state fees. They process the paperwork in bulk, probably 10-15 cars at a time. It may take a person 2 hours.
Let's say they are paid 50K / year. That's about $24/ hour. Let's round up to $50 for 10 cars of paperwork.
$5.00 a car and they charge each customer hundreds.
This is one reason they can sell cars at a "loss".
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Maybe Mike can confirm, but I recall reading that a lot of dealers now are tied into the DMV directly, so don't even have to send a runner to wait on line at DMV (where, at least in NJ, there is a special dealers only line, but not sure if mostly smaller used car lots do that).
It sounds good to say just DIY it, but dealers won't do that, because they can't ever be sure you really did go register the car.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Putty: "We had to go find it."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
JERRY: Yellow? I wanted black.
PUDDY: I can’t give you black at that price.
So cost to the dealer in NY is theoretically about $135 but I’ve always seen that added into to final cost of the car. In fact, on my last car they overcharged me $65 because they wouldn’t accept that there was still the bulk of the old car’s registration credit and I didn’t need new plates. To their credit they refunded the overcharge.
Even if they have to physically send someone to the DMV I can’t see $600 being justified. I think it’s just another way for dealers to get more money from uninformed buyers. Most posters on this board just factor a doc fee into the deal and deduct it from their offer. The dealer is counting on the ignorance of your average buyer.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Should be popular with parents with messy kids.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Anyone who says there are more papers to sign buying a car than buying a house hasn't bought a house.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Last month when we bought the BMW we had the new plates on the car and the registration paperwork before we drove away.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The doc fee is absolutely just extra revenue. The pass through DMV fees are all separate line items, as is sales tax. So you pay the hard government costs itemized out. The $299-$399 doc fee is added after all those, and goes straight into dealer pocket.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Ask your legislators about dropping the doc fee to the amount charged by BMV plus actual labor cost, if any, if someone goes to the BMW title office to transfer it. They'll try to act like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ours quietly changed the wording of the legislation applicable a few years back. It used to justify the doc fee for time payment forms costs of preparation (loan agreements). If someone paid cash, the doc fee was not applicable, in my humble legal opinion.
My last used car purchase at the Voss group around Dayton had the salesman justify the doc fee because the dealership had to pay the cost of the computer equipment for retaining those records for 10 years or some number like that. LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Why only $899? They should put five, or better ten grand there, cause why not? State doesn't care, apparently, so go ahead. I wait for "you pay $1" ad with $24999 dealer prep fee. It's coming and it will happen here, in Sunshine State.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
@qbrozen @stickguy have you ever received your plates/NJ registration at time of delivery?
Volvo took three weeks for plates.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I think dealers do it because they can’t lose. Like you said, it lets them advertise lower prices. Plus, if they go with normal prices (or internet TMV type stuff), while some people are smart enough to negotiate OTD, plenty will focus only on the good top line deal, and pay the doc fee without thinking. So dealer makes a killing on some deals, normal on the rest.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2018 430i Gran Coupe
When I lived in PA and left 7 years ago, everything was electronic - you left the dealer with your physical license plate and a temporary registration paper and within a week or so they mailed you your registration card and sticker. Now you don't even get stickers. I believe the doc fee is capped in PA though - I want to say it was capped out under $200 when I left.
Now in WA, the doc fee is capped at $150 and in OR it is capped at $115. For WA, you are issued a paper temp tag that goes in your back window good for 90 days. Usually within 60 days you get your plates. Nothing is electronic for the initial plate issuing unless you are taking it to an actual licensing office. My penance for such a low doc fee is incredibly high registration costs - the i3 was over $700 for year 1 and 10.5% tax on payments/incentives.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Usually it takes a couple weeks. Makes it easy to tell when people got a new car, since they have the paper plate on the back. Used to be a window sticker.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The county then sends me a post card with the purchase price and other vehicle info on it; I take that, plus proof of insurance, to the county offices, write my check, and they issue the plates then and there.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think in NY plates require a trip to the DMV. Whenever I’ve purchased a new car the plates were on it upon delivery. Certainly when I buy a hooptie I have to go to the DMV. I don’t think NY issues temp plates and I read a while ago that they don’t honor temp tags from other states either. So theoretically if you buy a car in Florida and drive it home with temp tags you could be ticketed. Sounds stupid enough to be a NY law.
A friend bought a car in CT and returned home to NY with temp tags without trouble so it must not be a big police priority.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Everything is as you note, when we bought the truck I had a permanent plate but temporary registration slip. A week later the permanent registration card came in the mail. One of the bigger changes is that with no more plate stickers PA gives you the option to do a 2 year registration when you renew.
I'll check 3 others tonight or tomorrow morning when they're again cold.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If you are adding a car to your fleet they issue a paper temporary permit and submit the paperwork, and your new plates come in the mail with the registration.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
I still have the plates off my Elantra since that was a 3 year initial registration. If I bought a car tomorrow I could throw them on it and pay a small fee to transfer the rest of the registration over to it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My wife saw one one once on her phone when the tire on her MKC was dismounted to remove a screw and patch the tire.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
After driving for about 15 minutes the TPMS light comes on and the display shows the pressure in all 4 tires is 27 PSI but the display shows the left front and right rear tires are the guilty ones, HUH ?
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I was just there again today to register the Charger. Took about 30 mins this time. Cost with tax and tags was $825.
Speaking of temp tags, when I went to replace it, I noticed something that previously escaped me. I have a special plate frame.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S