Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

ronsteve

fintail said:

My fintail has them too, via a low beltline and thin pillars.

Many modern cars, especially the bloatling CUVs adored by those who don't like cars nor driving, need all the nannies they can get to compensate for both the thing behind the wheel, and the design, which sacrifices visibility for the feeling of isolation and security.

qbrozen said:

My '67 Dodge has backup cam and BLIS. I call them my eyes and brain.

Forgive me for being WAY behind, but I'll second fintail's notion. One of the things I miss about my Volvo! Or is that 2 or 3 things?

ab348

Geez... it's a $50 part:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Driveline-Shifter/Driveshafts-Accessories/Guibo-Flex-Disc-26-11-7-511-454.html

I'd say that under the circumstances, the Dealer needs to eat the whole charge.

stickguy

so about 4 hours labor to drop the driveshaft and replace it (probably about 5 minutes to remove and replace).

driver100

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

driver100

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

Find a good indie shop.

driver100

stickguy said:

so about 4 hours labor to drop the driveshaft and replace it (probably about 5 minutes to remove and replace).

My $80 plastic window washer fluid container cost $350 to replace. If they made cars properlyyou should be able to screw it off, put a new one on. This fellows 2012 Cadillac just needed a new bulb, has to buy a whole new unit $1200. Cost of repairs is getting out of hand. Someone should come out with a car like an 80s....no electronics.....just simple and easy to repair.

dino001

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

Check your state laws. In Florida, for example, they have to provide a written or oral estimate regarding the cost and the final cost cannot differ by certain percentage or dollar amount (don't know exact number). If the service writer said it was covered in warranty (no charge), under the law, he would have to call you and state your new cost get your permission before touching the car. From your description, seems like he had not done that. I'm sure most/all states have similar laws, as the industry was rampant in those kind of surprise bill practices. The statement about you having to check the coverage and simply shelling out the surprise bill, cause they changed their mind, simply doesn't pass the smell test, no matter what state you are. Ask them for the paperwork stating you agreed to the estimated price. The manager is clearly trying to cover up their mistake and push the responsibility on you. Don't make it about the warranty, but about the cost estimate.

You may also try social media. Find their and BMW's Facebook pages and post your story there. Don't use overly derogatory language, but pose a few good questions, like one you mentioned, about if you can't trust the adviser, who you can trust. You'll be surprised how quickly companies change their mind when you publicly ask them about something.

And yes, drop them afterwards and use a specialized independent garage for the maintenance services. Those type of establishments are usually more expensive than general chain shops, but still less expensive than dealers. Considering yours is the only one in the state, the price spread may be even bigger. You may still need them for a warranty work, but it's coming close to the end anyway, as I think it's just 15k miles left on that warranty, about a year or so. Unless the car is giving your indications that something is going to happen, it's unlikely you'll need to make a claim. But stuff happens, of course...

qbrozen

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

Let me ask this: what would you have done if they told you up front that it wasn't covered? Would you have told them you don't want it done?

In any case, I'd ask they split 50/50. I agree the labor charge seems excessive. What is the breakdown on your receipt? Alternatively, if you would have taken it to an indy for the replacement, call that shop and ask how much. Then tell dealer you'll pay that much only.

graphicguy

As much as the Kia dealership I bought from wasn’t offering the same posterior kissing as my Acura dealer does, the Sales Manager I spoke to was pretty insightful. I was waiting on the paperwork to be prepared as we were chatting casually.

He said the dealership has to rely on good CSIs, service work, and used cars for profit. He said most new cars have no margin....particularly his dealership, as they do mostly “skinny” deals. And, the compensation they get from Kia for warranty work sometimes doesn’t cover the cost of a warranty repair. They can’t sell extended warranties on new cars because of Kia’s warranty. So, they also depend on extended warranties on used cars to make a profit.

While, they have a ways to go on the CSI front, he made sense. Of course, what is said and what is practiced are many times two different things.

If you want repeat business, you have to give your customer a reason to come back.

If a dealership tells you a repair is covered, then cover it. If you made a mistake, make sure you don’t make the same mistake again. I can’t imagine doing an RFQ (request for quotation) and coming back later to try to get more money because one of my people quoted incorrectly. My business would be shot all to hell of that were the case.

Michaell

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

Just so you won’t feel so bad, I too own a couple of shirts with horizontal stripes. I just try to make sure I’m not wearing them if pictures are being taken.

Michaell

graphicguy said:

As much as the Kia dealership I bought from wasn’t offering the same posterior kissing as my Acura dealer does, the Sales Manager I spoke to was pretty insightful. I was waiting on the paperwork to be prepared as we were chatting casually.

He said the dealership has to rely on good CSIs, service work, and used cars for profit. He said most new cars have no margin....particularly his dealership, as they do mostly “skinny” deals. And, the compensation they get from Kia for warranty work sometimes doesn’t cover the cost of a warranty repair. They can’t sell extended warranties on new cars because of Kia’s warranty. So, they also depend on extended warranties on used cars to make a profit.

While, they have a ways to go on the CSI front, he made sense. Of course, what is said and what is practiced are many times two different things.

If you want repeat business, you have to give your customer a reason to come back.

If a dealership tells you a repair is covered, then cover it. If you made a mistake, make sure you don’t make the same mistake again. I can’t imagine doing an RFQ (request for quotation) and coming back later to try to get more money because one of my people quoted incorrectly. My business would be shot all to hell of that were the case.

Agreed. We just went through a reorg and I’ve found myself in charge of my unit for the Western Hemisphere. Now involved more with sales. I quoted some services and woefully underestimated the T&L costs. We ate the difference.

snakeweasel

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

I do believe every state has laws stating that they have to provide an estimate prior to doing any repairs. Since they did not I would contact the local Bar association, most local areas have a local (usually county level) association that can put you on touch with a local attorney that would specialize in consumer protection that you can consult with.

graphicguy

@Michaell ....I’ve been known to have to eat some margin because of quotation errors. Those are never fun conversations to have with your boss when quarterly reviews come around.

I make my displeasure known to the offending sales/Biz Dev person who made the error. But, at the end of the day, the “buck stops” with me as it’s my team. As such, I’ll take the heat. My boss knows that. Not sure if he appreciates me for stepping up, or thinks I’m an idiot for doing so. Doesn’t matter. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.

If someone told me in the service dept that a mistake was made on repairing my car, that has nothing to do with me, except it’s my car they made the mistake with. Make it right and move on. Don’t tell me you’re going to plead on my behalf to the manufacturer. Don’t insult me by telling me I’ve abused my car (i.e. @breld VW). Don’t try to blame me for the car’s breakdown when you pitched your “great warranty and customer service” to me when I was looking to buy it.

Fix it, with as little drama and as little inconvenience as possible. Whatever you have to do in talking to the manufacturer or getting the price right with your management, do it.

I’ve relayed this story before, but it’s been awhile. The last BMW I owned was a 335i coupe. Great car...fast stylish and at the time, pretty well on the cutting edge of automotive tech. I had bought a dealer installed option for a cradle that fit into my center console which held my iPhone and charged it at the same time (this was before wireless charging tech). It also provided direct connection to the iDrive systems, which you could control through the stereo buttons and call buttons on the steering wheel. Also, it was supposed to provide better reception.

I wasn’t able to find out if any of that was true, as the first time I put my iPhone in the cradle, it got so hot that it melted the SIM card inside the iPhone.

Taking it back to the BMW dealership, I was throughly expecting a struggle proving what had happened, thinking they would say I put it in the cradle wrong, or I didn’t follow some sort of procedure correctly. Nope. None of that. Dealership issued me a refund for the cradle option ($700) and immediately gave me a check to buy a new iPhone. No muss, no fuss. They also apologized. THAT’S CUSTOMER SERVICE!

Michaell

graphicguy said:

@Michaell ....I’ve been known to have to eat some margin because of quotation errors. Those are never fun conversations to have with your boss when quarterly reviews come around.

I make my displeasure known to the offending sales/Biz Dev person who made the error. But, at the end of the day, the “buck stops” with me as it’s my team. As such, I’ll take the heat. My boss knows that. Not sure if he appreciates me for stepping up, or thinks I’m an idiot for doing so. Doesn’t matter. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.

I've got one salesperson reporting to me, and he's coming up to speed on the way we do business.He was an inside sales rep on the product side of the house, and now he's selling education services. He's got a great perspective, and lots of contacts in the sales organization, so I'm hoping that will drive more business our way.

venture

Reply from Subaru:

Thank you for contacting Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate you taking time out of your day to contact us.

Seat upholstery is covered against defects by the Subaru new car warranty for 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Damage such as cuts from sharp objects would typically not be covered.

If you retailer feels this is not able to be covered by your Subaru warranty, you are welcome to send me a repair estimate from your Subaur retailer to review for you. I can then determine if any goodwill assistance can be offered to you.

Thanks again for the opportunity to be of assistance.

Sincerely,

XXXXX XXXXX
Subaru of America, Inc.

So it appears the dealer thinks I cut it or snagged it somehow. I guess there is no way to prove I did, but there is no way they can prove I didn't. The way this is worded it seems it would be covered if the dealer guy said so.

driver100

venture said:

Reply from Subaru:

Thank you for contacting Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate you taking time out of your day to contact us.

Seat upholstery is covered against defects by the Subaru new car warranty for 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Damage such as cuts from sharp objects would typically not be covered.

So it appears the dealer thinks I cut it or snagged it somehow. I guess there is no way to prove I did, but there is no way they can prove I didn't. The way this is worded it seems it would be covered if the dealer guy said so.

It doesn't look like it was damaged with a knife or sharp object. Looks like it wore out. I would take the note to another Suburu dealer and ask them for their opinion....they may see it differently with the hope of winning you over. If that is too difficult, then take the note to your dealer, and ask how a sharp object would do that - and let them know you wouldn't ever wear pants with studs in your area.

driver100

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

Just so you won’t feel so bad, I too own a couple of shirts with horizontal stripes. I just try to make sure I’m not wearing them if pictures are being taken.

Good advice. I was once told never let anyone take a picture of you with a drink (alcohol) in your hand. If you are ever in any news article, that is the picture they will use. Or, if you are running for a political position, or are in politics that is the picture they will use. I guess we can add, never ever let anyone actually take a picture of you wearing horizontal stripes.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

I do believe every state has laws stating that they have to provide an estimate prior to doing any repairs. Since they did not I would contact the local Bar association, most local areas have a local (usually county level) association that can put you on touch with a local attorney that would specialize in consumer protection that you can consult with.

They should do something for you. Because they said it was a warranty repair you had no chance to compare pricing. 50/50 would seem reasonable.

I took the C 250 in for a warranty oil change. The service manager came back with a bill for $4800, new battery, rotors, etc. He said these things were normal at 68000 miles...I said I only have 18000 miles on it. That's when he realized he had someone else's invoice....poor Susan! I decided after that to go to an indie garage, it was probably an honest mistake...but, the incident made me lose my confidence in how well they ran their business.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

I do believe every state has laws stating that they have to provide an estimate prior to doing any repairs. Since they did not I would contact the local Bar association, most local areas have a local (usually county level) association that can put you on touch with a local attorney that would specialize in consumer protection that you can consult with.

They should do something for you. Because they said it was a warranty repair you had no chance to compare pricing. 50/50 would seem reasonable.

I took the C 250 in for a warranty oil change. The service manager came back with a bill for $4800, new battery, rotors, etc. He said these things were normal at 68000 miles...I said I only have 18000 miles on it. That's when he realized he had someone else's invoice....poor Susan! I decided after that to go to an indie garage, it was probably an honest mistake...but, the incident made me lose my confidence in how well they ran their business.

That reminds me of a time a few years back at a restaurant where the waitress brought us someone else's check. Their check was much more than ours and they got our check which they had already paid then left.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

I do believe every state has laws stating that they have to provide an estimate prior to doing any repairs. Since they did not I would contact the local Bar association, most local areas have a local (usually county level) association that can put you on touch with a local attorney that would specialize in consumer protection that you can consult with.

They should do something for you. Because they said it was a warranty repair you had no chance to compare pricing. 50/50 would seem reasonable.

I took the C 250 in for a warranty oil change. The service manager came back with a bill for $4800, new battery, rotors, etc. He said these things were normal at 68000 miles...I said I only have 18000 miles on it. That's when he realized he had someone else's invoice....poor Susan! I decided after that to go to an indie garage, it was probably an honest mistake...but, the incident made me lose my confidence in how well they ran their business.

That reminds me of a time a few years back at a restaurant where the waitress brought us someone else's check. Their check was much more than ours and they got our check which they had already paid then left.

lol.....what did you do at that point?
I wonder how the restaurant handled that with the waitress.

Not good if they made you pay and gave you 10% off coupon for your next meal.

venture

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

Just so you won’t feel so bad, I too own a couple of shirts with horizontal stripes. I just try to make sure I’m not wearing them if pictures are being taken.

Good advice. I was once told never let anyone take a picture of you with a drink (alcohol) in your hand. If you are ever in any news article, that is the picture they will use. Or, if you are running for a political position, or are in politics that is the picture they will use. I guess we can add, never ever let anyone actually take a picture of you wearing horizontal stripes.

That sounds familiar. The newspaper took a picture of me one time when I had a baseball cap on and my hair was all long and shaggy. Along with that I was squinting from the sun. They ran that same picture for years.

venture

driver100 said:

venture said:

Reply from Subaru:

Thank you for contacting Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate you taking time out of your day to contact us.

Seat upholstery is covered against defects by the Subaru new car warranty for 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Damage such as cuts from sharp objects would typically not be covered.

So it appears the dealer thinks I cut it or snagged it somehow. I guess there is no way to prove I did, but there is no way they can prove I didn't. The way this is worded it seems it would be covered if the dealer guy said so.

It doesn't look like it was damaged with a knife or sharp object. Looks like it wore out. I would take the note to another Suburu dealer and ask them for their opinion....they may see it differently with the hope of winning you over. If that is too difficult, then take the note to your dealer, and ask how a sharp object would do that - and let them know you wouldn't ever wear pants with studs in your area.

I took the email to the GSM where I bought it and showed it to him. They ordered the seat covering. It should be in next week.

jmonroe

venture said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

Just so you won’t feel so bad, I too own a couple of shirts with horizontal stripes. I just try to make sure I’m not wearing them if pictures are being taken.

Good advice. I was once told never let anyone take a picture of you with a drink (alcohol) in your hand. If you are ever in any news article, that is the picture they will use. Or, if you are running for a political position, or are in politics that is the picture they will use. I guess we can add, never ever let anyone actually take a picture of you wearing horizontal stripes.

That sounds familiar. The newspaper took a picture of me one time when I had a baseball cap on and my hair was all long and shaggy. Along with that I was squinting from the sun. They ran that same picture for years.

That hair thing had to be before you possed for your current Edmunds mug shot.

jmonroe

explorerx4

@breld,
You really beat up that car if the pressure plate failed.
https://www.jbugs.com/product/022141025G.html?utm_content=shopping&msclkid=887605dcbd6019cf25985bfc5b9fcf77&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=*All Products - Bing Shopping*&utm_term=4585100929598045

driver100

venture said:

driver100 said:

venture said:

Reply from Subaru:

Thank you for contacting Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate you taking time out of your day to contact us.

Seat upholstery is covered against defects by the Subaru new car warranty for 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Damage such as cuts from sharp objects would typically not be covered.

So it appears the dealer thinks I cut it or snagged it somehow. I guess there is no way to prove I did, but there is no way they can prove I didn't. The way this is worded it seems it would be covered if the dealer guy said so.

It doesn't look like it was damaged with a knife or sharp object. Looks like it wore out. I would take the note to another Suburu dealer and ask them for their opinion....they may see it differently with the hope of winning you over. If that is too difficult, then take the note to your dealer, and ask how a sharp object would do that - and let them know you wouldn't ever wear pants with studs in your area.

I took the email to the GSM where I bought it and showed it to him. They ordered the seat covering. It should be in next week.

Great....and nicely done....an end run that worked perfectly.

driver100

Has anyone heard from Mike?

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

Those were pretty cars, some 90s designs have aged well relative to the over-wrought faux-aggressive material of today. There's even one on display at the Gilmore Museum in MI:

That’s a 98’ the last of the line. Notice the revamped front clip which cured the burnt headlight reflector problem. I had to drive with the high beams on all the time. Even bought some used one from the junk yard. They were just as bad. Went to my Ford dealer and he laughed. Said they were obsolete. Lesson learned about buying an old low production car.

oldfarmer50

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

So they’re saying that you should assume that the service person is always lying and check with the manager every time you come in? I’d find a good indie BMW mechanic pronto.

I’ve had that kind of experience where some employee tells you something only to have the company reneg later. They usually ask “who told you that?” to which I reply “if I thought your staff was not to be trusted I would have gotten a name.” It usually goes down hill from there. Infuriating.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

first question, do you plan to keep this car a long time and depend on the dealer for service? That makes a difference on how big a stink you want to make.

My opinion, the dealer should say that we told you that (which does not seem to be in question) so it is on us, and we will eat it. But, I suspect that it is up to them how much they want to give you, because even if you make a stink, they don't (probably legally either, unless you have it in writing and want to sue, maybe?) have to do anything.

at minimum, I would get back with them (go up a level if need be) and push it. Bring out that if you knew how much it was you would have explored other options, etc. At least aim to a 50/50 split while being polite but firm.

but dang, if it is at the age where random little rubber parts go that cost more than a nice TV (or dishwasher!), just might be time to move on from it while it is still under CPO. But if you aren't planning to, still worth discussing the situation more. Like the man said, if you don't ask, the answer is always No. And start looking for a well regarded Indy place. there must be one up that way.

That got me thinking about my interaction with my Ford dealer.

Ford has had a problem with the paint on the Mustang Aluminum hoods back to 2005 so when I noticed a small bubble on mine at 2 years I took it right in. Repainted under warranty. Great.

Two years latter I noticed another bubble in a spot that hadn’t been repainted so I went back. They submitted a claim to Ford but got denied as out of warranty. I fumed but figured I was SOL.

A week later I got a survey from the dealer and mentioned that I was disappointed in Ford as this was a known problem and the car only had 11k miles on it.

Shortly thereafter I received an email from the dealership owner saying he would repaint again for free. I was impressed since legally he owed me nothing.

Sometimes it does pay to go to the top.

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
Since sb55's BMW is still covered by CPO warranty, why bring it to an indie mechanic first?

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

Pay no attention to those guys. As a fashionista with a full set of plaid flannel shirts (most with all their buttons) I say your striped shirt was just fine.🤦‍♂️

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

so about 4 hours labor to drop the driveshaft and replace it (probably about 5 minutes to remove and replace).

My $80 plastic window washer fluid container cost $350 to replace. If they made cars properlyyou should be able to screw it off, put a new one on. This fellows 2012 Cadillac just needed a new bulb, has to buy a whole new unit $1200. Cost of repairs is getting out of hand. Someone should come out with a car like an 80s....no electronics.....just simple and easy to repair.

Consider junk yard parts. My cargo van is in the shop right now getting 3 rusted steel wheels replaced with used parts. Saved me about half of buying new.

oldfarmer50

“ And yes, drop them afterwards and use a specialized independent garage for the maintenance services. ”

He could also get on the ferry and go over to Della BMW or European Autohaus in Plattsburgh.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Since sb55's BMW is still covered by CPO warranty, why bring it to an indie mechanic first?

Good point but now I wonder what is the value of a CPO if they don’t cover what breaks.

cdnpinhead

Ding, ding, ding -- we have a winner!

This is precisely why extended warranties are a bad deal. If they weren't, they wouldn't be sold -- it's not a charity.

explorerx4

The problem wasn't the extended warranty, it was the information provided by it was incorrect.

sb55

qbrozen said:

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

Let me ask this: what would you have done if they told you up front that it wasn't covered? Would you have told them you don't want it done?

In any case, I'd ask they split 50/50. I agree the labor charge seems excessive. What is the breakdown on your receipt? Alternatively, if you would have taken it to an indy for the replacement, call that shop and ask how much. Then tell dealer you'll pay that much only.

If they had given me an estimate I would have taken it to an Indy. Last year they said that one cv joint boot was torn. $700.ish to fix that one. I took it to an Indy and they did both sides for the same price.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

I do believe every state has laws stating that they have to provide an estimate prior to doing any repairs. Since they did not I would contact the local Bar association, most local areas have a local (usually county level) association that can put you on touch with a local attorney that would specialize in consumer protection that you can consult with.

They should do something for you. Because they said it was a warranty repair you had no chance to compare pricing. 50/50 would seem reasonable.

I took the C 250 in for a warranty oil change. The service manager came back with a bill for $4800, new battery, rotors, etc. He said these things were normal at 68000 miles...I said I only have 18000 miles on it. That's when he realized he had someone else's invoice....poor Susan! I decided after that to go to an indie garage, it was probably an honest mistake...but, the incident made me lose my confidence in how well they ran their business.

That reminds me of a time a few years back at a restaurant where the waitress brought us someone else's check. Their check was much more than ours and they got our check which they had already paid then left.

lol.....what did you do at that point?
I wonder how the restaurant handled that with the waitress.

Not good if they made you pay and gave you 10% off coupon for your next meal.

I pointed out the error and the restaurant gave me the correct bill, that was good enough for me. Not sure about the waitress or what they did about the other bill.

stickguy

CPO is not a full warranty anyway. more of a powertrain normally. so you will get surprised that way too.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Since sb55's BMW is still covered by CPO warranty, why bring it to an indie mechanic first?

If it is going to be a wear and tear item, it won't be covered by the warranty, But yeh, if a problem happens during the warranty period might as well see if it is covered first. But, if you know it isn't, a good indie mechanic might cost less....they don't usually have the pressure like the big dealer does to try and drain every penny they can from you. Many of them take pride in doing work as well and as economically as possible...without the big overhead and the need to make quotas etc.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

Pay no attention to those guys. As a fashionista with a full set of plaid flannel shirts (most with all their buttons) I say your striped shirt was just fine.🤦‍♂️

Thanks, now I feel much better wearing it.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

so about 4 hours labor to drop the driveshaft and replace it (probably about 5 minutes to remove and replace).

My $80 plastic window washer fluid container cost $350 to replace. If they made cars properlyyou should be able to screw it off, put a new one on. This fellows 2012 Cadillac just needed a new bulb, has to buy a whole new unit $1200. Cost of repairs is getting out of hand. Someone should come out with a car like an 80s....no electronics.....just simple and easy to repair.

Consider junk yard parts. My cargo van is in the shop right now getting 3 rusted steel wheels replaced with used parts. Saved me about half of buying new.

Good point, but the part is really the cheap part, it is the labor that is costly. The part is $85, so I might save $40 getting a used one, which is much more likely to crack than a new one.

driver100

stickguy said:

CPO is not a full warranty anyway. more of a powertrain normally. so you will get surprised that way too.

CPO normally doesn't cover wear items, such as brakes or windshield wipers. Sometimes when you take the car in you don't know if it is a covered item or not....this sounds like a wear item, though I suppose you could say, if they examined the car they should have noticed the part was ready to go.

roadburner

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

$653 for a guibo? At 85k miles? It's not "related to the xDrive"- All BMW's since the '60s have one or two guibos. Out of the 12 Bimmers I've only replaced two- and both were on cars with over 100k miles. My Club Sport is still on the original guibo at 140k miles, and it was my track rat for literally decades. My M235i uses the identical part and has over 50k miles on it; it's a rare occurrence when it doesn't see full throttle at least once on a drive.
I'm sorry, but I think you got hosed; the OEM guibo is only $125.15; the Febi equivalent is $55.
Find an HONEST indie BMW tech.

venture

driver100 said:

Has anyone heard from Mike?

I was wondering the same thing.

28firefighter

Does anyone have his personal email? Hoping there wasn’t a complication with his eye procedure.

snakeweasel

venture said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

No problem:

At least the stripes on his shirt are running in the right direction!

Not you too!

Sorry, it was the first thing I noticed about the picture.

That was the first and last horizontal striped shirt I have bought....you guys are ruining my fun!

Just so you won’t feel so bad, I too own a couple of shirts with horizontal stripes. I just try to make sure I’m not wearing them if pictures are being taken.

Good advice. I was once told never let anyone take a picture of you with a drink (alcohol) in your hand. If you are ever in any news article, that is the picture they will use. Or, if you are running for a political position, or are in politics that is the picture they will use. I guess we can add, never ever let anyone actually take a picture of you wearing horizontal stripes.

That sounds familiar. The newspaper took a picture of me one time when I had a baseball cap on and my hair was all long and shaggy. Along with that I was squinting from the sun. They ran that same picture for years.

It could have been worse, they could have found that profile picture you have.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

sb55 said:

What would you do?
2 weeks ago my 2014 CPO BMW 535d x-drive with about 85k miles went in for an oil change. While doing the courtesy inspection, they said that it needed a new “guibo”. (It’s a rubber part somehow related to the x-drive). The service person told me that it was a CPO warranty part. So, great. I scheduled an appointment. When the appointment happened, I got a loaner and left. Upon returning I got a bill for $653.00. Apparently the “guibo” is a wear item and not covered.
When I complained to the service manager, he apologized that the service writer was wrong and shouldn’t have said that it was covered. He offered $150.00 credit for next service. He said that in the future I should check to see if it is really a warranty repair. I say BS. If the service writer can’t be trusted, who do I turn to? It all fell on deaf ears.
It’s the only BMW dealer in the state. So, do I keep complaining and possibly get black listed, or shut up and forget about it?

$653 for a guibo? At 85k miles? It's not "related to the xDrive"- All BMW's since the '60s have one or two guibos. Out of the 12 Bimmers I've only replaced two- and both were on cars with over 100k miles. My Club Sport is still on the original guibo at 140k miles, and it was my track rat for literally decades. My M235i uses the identical part and has over 50k miles on it; it's a rare occurrence when it doesn't see full throttle at least once on a drive.
I'm sorry, but I think you got hosed; the OEM guibo is only $125.15; the Febi equivalent is $55.
Find an HONEST indie BMW tech.

“Guibo”? That sounds like a made up part they tell you is bad to hose you. Kind of like “yes mame, your Johnson rod has gone bad and needs replacing. That’ll be $1000”.

As proof, when I typed in guibo for this post autocorrect kept changing it.

roadburner

Some places call it a flex disk; BMW refers to it as a universal joint on the ETK. It’s a steel reinforced rubber disc that connects the driveshaft to the transmission output shaft and in some cases to the differential as well.

driver100

May apply, may not:
BMW Guibo Flex Joint Failure, Symptoms, Replacement Cost
BMW owners may experience loss of power (propulsion) and loud noise from the rear drivetrain.

BMW flex disc ( also may be referred to as guibo disk or constant velocity joint) joint which transfers power from transmission to the rear driveshaft may fail in certain BMWs due to a weak material.

BMW Flex disc CV Joint at Rear Driveshaft ProblemAccording to BMW "The flex disc may not have been produced with insufficient strength."1 If this problem occurs the BMW will not move when placed in gear.

If the flex disc joint breaks while driving, it can cause damage to the underbody of the BMW.

The defective flex disc was manufactured by Vibracoustic in Germany. Approximately 8750 BMWs vehicles are affected by this problem according to a recall SI B26 01 17 (2666), 17V-067 (2667).

Don't ignore this problem. As your BMW ages and you put more miles, the constant velocity joint may break while driving causing an accident.
To fix this problem your BMW dealer or your mechanic will need to replace the 26117610061 flex disc.

The flex disc is between the transmission and transfer case and will need to be replaced if it hasn't been replaced already.

The bolts should be replaced as well. If your BMW is covered by recall the BMW dealer will replace the flex disc free of charge. Make sure to replace all six hexagonal head bolts and the self-locking nuts

FULL ARTICLE Trying to find a cost