Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

explorerx4

Snow was supposed to stop by 9am. Now 11am and still snowing, although no accumulation.

stickguy

Little flurry in rockland. Not a bug deal except we are having a house sake today and I keep graving to go outside. Can't believe people are out garage saling when it is this cold.

Michaell

I'm wearing shorts and a polo shirt today. 73 is the expected high. 

driver100

explorerx4 said:

Lincoln push buttons

Forgot about Lincoln pushbuttons. Most reviewers aren't crazy about those. Maybe they could have voice activation transmissions. "Put car in Drive" "Do you mean Park?" "No, you idiot.....D-R-I-V-E" "Oh, you mean REVERSE, press 1 for yes and 2 for no" "I am so confused I give up..........I'll walk to the corner store."

driver100

Michaell said:

I'm wearing shorts and a polo shirt today. 73 is the expected high. 

We got a blast of cold air from Canada.....darned Canadians!

We'll have a hi of 70 today (about 15 below normal) and people are really complaining about how cold it is. I think it is beautiful!

thebean

robr2 said:

It's snowing. That is all.

It's 66 right now in North Texas with a predicted high of 80 today.  I did my first lawn cutting yesterday (which actually was a bit overdue) and just got back in from weed killing.  I will be mowing from now until mid-October.   A real PITA.  The summer will be near or over 100 for most of four months.  There is good and bad wherever you live.  I've lived here all my life & I'm still not used to the heat.

robr2

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. You can't stop the earth from shaking, the mountains from catching on fire and then sliding into the ocean, you can't stop the sun from making it impossible to sit in your car unless the AC has run for 20 minutes.

Mr_Shiftright

And then there's that equal opportunity employer---asteroids.

RE: Pushbutton shifting -- the Packard system used solenoids. Buttons required a very light touch, more like a push-button home phone. The buttons hung off a pod on the steering post. I wouldn't mind push buttons on a big hulking vehicle. Paddle-shifting a Lincoln Navigator would seem awfully silly for instance.

driver100

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. s.

Like I say, the ideal life is Florida or Arizona from Oct to May, and a condo in NH, Mass, Vermont, or rent a room from Old farmer for the summer.

carnaught

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. You can't stop the earth from shaking, the mountains from catching on fire and then sliding into the ocean, you can't stop the sun from making it impossible to sit in your car unless the AC has run for 20 minutes.

You can shovel your snow; I don't have to shovel my heat (sitting in the shade with an iced cold one ) .

robr2

carnaught said:

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. You can't stop the earth from shaking, the mountains from catching on fire and then sliding into the ocean, you can't stop the sun from making it impossible to sit in your car unless the AC has run for 20 minutes.

You can shovel your snow; I don't have to shovel my heat (sitting in the shade with an iced cold one ) .

Talk to me in August.

robr2

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. s.

Like I say, the ideal life is Florida or Arizona from Oct to May, and a condo in NH, Mass, Vermont, or rent a room from Old farmer for the summer.

I know you like Florida but having been there numerous time as well as AZ, I don't ever see myself living in either locale even for a few months out of the year.

graphicguy

I do like NM and AZ. I know we have our Florida fans here. I guess I've worked down there too much to really give it a fair shake. But, not sure the reason, I've never really warmed up to FL (pun intended).

I do like the change of seasons. And, it's not as severe in the OH Valley as it is in the North East.

All told, we'll have about a month's worth of really bad weather all totaled, but that's about it.

Got to go give the CTS a bath. Later.

ab348

graphicguy said:

I do like NM and AZ. I know we have our Florida fans here. I guess I've worked down there too much to really give it a fair shake. But, not sure the reason, I've never really warmed up to FL (pun intended).

I do like the change of seasons. And, it's not as severe in the OH Valley as it is in the North East.

All told, we'll have about a month's worth of really bad weather all totaled, but that's about it.

Got to go give the CTS a bath. Later.

Up where I am in Nova Scotia, this winter has been historically awful in terms of snowfall over the last 2 months. The piles will be here in places until June. Good news is that I won't need to mow grass until nearly then.

But even in a normal winter, it is chilly and brown and gray and generally blah here from mid-November until April. That makes going somewhere else pretty tempting. I am a mid-Atlantic coast fan, Virginia and the Carolinas, even though it can be cool there in the winter. Growing up on the coast, it is tough to get away from the attraction to that. Maybe visit Florida in February.

carnaught

robr2 said:

carnaught said:

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. You can't stop the earth from shaking, the mountains from catching on fire and then sliding into the ocean, you can't stop the sun from making it impossible to sit in your car unless the AC has run for 20 minutes.

You can shovel your snow; I don't have to shovel my heat (sitting in the shade with an iced cold one ) .

Talk to me in August.

Okay, but in August I will be in my a/c'd home, office or car OR sitting in the shade with an iced cold one, not shoveling, shivering or getting stuck on the roads. With the latter, been there, done that....no moh .

qbrozen

tyguy said:

I can see the logic in that, but you might want to let Ferrari, Lamborghini, and F1 racing know that they got it wrong

Interesting. I wonder if its a regional thing. The Germans seems to use steering wheel mounted paddles (I know at least BMW and Porsche do). I've driven both of those on a track. I did drive a Ferrari briefly but there was no shifting involved so I didn't pay attention to where the paddles were or if they would have been problematic for me.

driver100

robr2 said:

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. s.

Like I say, the ideal life is Florida or Arizona from Oct to May, and a condo in NH, Mass, Vermont, or rent a room from Old farmer for the summer.

I know you like Florida but having been there numerous time as well as AZ, I don't ever see myself living in either locale even for a few months out of the year.

Fair enough.....but, I wouldn't trade places for this:



Boston is a great city......to visit, not necessarily to live.

We don't think of Florida as a vacation spot or our home. It just gets us out of the cold and snow. You can be out almost every day all day long...most of the time with shorts and short sleeves. The sun is bright and the water is deep blue. It's like camp for adults!

But, not trying to sell anyone....it's getting crowded down here as it is. The Villages, NW of Orlando is the fastest growing city in the US.

stever

Current conditions:



We actually thought about a summer place in Newfoundland about 15 years ago (before the Bostonites got priced out of Bar Harbor and went north). Just too far away.

jmonroe

tyguy said:

I do use the paddle shifters on occasion, but most manufacturers mount them to the steering wheel instead of the column, so when you spin the steering wheel it becomes more challenging to change gears. If they were stationary on the column I think they'd be more user friendly.

I would prefer the shifter to be on the console, like my Genny, but there are paddles on the steering wheel on Mrs. j’s Subie.

I think I told part of this story when I did the test drive before signing on the line for Mrs. j’s 2012 Subie Legacy Limited 6 cylinder in November 2011. Son #1 went with us to Columbus where we got the car.

Mrs. j: What are those silver things on the steering wheel?

Son #1: Don’t worry about those. They’re for when Dad and I drive the car. You just put it in Drive like any other car you’ve had and you’ll be just fine.

Mrs. j : Just curious, but they must be there for a reason.

That’s the part I think I told. Now fast forward to after she drove the car for a week or two when Son #1 came over to the house with his family for dinner one Sunday.

Mrs. j: OK, I ask this before, maybe I can get an answer this time. What do those silver things do that are on the steering wheel of my car?

Son #1: I guess it is better to show you rather than try to explain it. Get your coat and we’ll go for a ride. Dad can come along if he wants to.

We get to the car in the drive way and my son says, “I’ll drive. You get in the passenger’s seat and Dad will sit in the back”. When we are in the car, he says, “see the + sign on this paddle, that’s for up- shifting. You probably won’t use this paddle very much because of the way the transmission operates in this car. See the – sign on this paddle, that’s for down-shifting. Down-shifting is for when you want the car to go into a lower gear, like when you’re passing someone. It does the same thing as when you step down on the gas pedal a little harder for when you want the car to get up to speed quicker. When you use this paddle you don’t have to push on the gas pedal, you just pull on the paddle. Let’s go and I’ll show you. It’s very simple”. We get out on a clear road and he goes through the demonstration mode several times. Then he says:

Son #1: See, that’s all there is to it.

Mrs. j: And you expect me to play with those things when I’m driving? I’ll just leave it in Drive like you said before. That’s the way I have always driven, so I’m not going to change how I drive a car now. You guys can play with them all you want. Let’s go home so I can get dinner ready.

Both my Son and I got this HUH look on our faces and she said again, “did you really think I was going to use those things”? More HUH looks and we went home for dinner.

Now that was wasted test drive.

Maybe Isell would call her a stroke and I wouldn’t blame him.

jmonroe

venture

jmonroe said:

tyguy said:

I do use the paddle shifters on occasion, but most manufacturers mount them to the steering wheel instead of the column, so when you spin the steering wheel it becomes more challenging to change gears. If they were stationary on the column I think they'd be more user friendly.

I would prefer the shifter to be on the console, like my Genny, but there are paddles on the steering wheel on Mrs. j’s Subie.

I think I told part of this story when I did the test drive before signing on the line for Mrs. j’s 2012 Subie Legacy Limited 6 cylinder in November 2011. Son #1 went with us to Columbus where we got the car.

Mrs. j: What are those silver things on the steering wheel?

Son #1: Don’t worry about those. They’re for when Dad and I drive the car. You just put it in Drive like any other car you’ve had and you’ll be just fine.

Mrs. j : Just curious, but they must be there for a reason.

That’s the part I think I told. Now fast forward to after she drove the car for a week or two when Son #1 came over to the house with his family for dinner one Sunday.

Mrs. j: OK, I ask this before, maybe I can get an answer this time. What do those silver things do that are on the steering wheel of my car?

Son #1: I guess it is better to show you rather than try to explain it. Get your coat and we’ll go for a ride. Dad can come along if he wants to.

We get to the car in the drive way and my son says, “I’ll drive. You get in the passenger’s seat and Dad will sit in the back”. When we are in the car, he says, “see the + sign on this paddle, that’s for up- shifting. You probably won’t use this paddle very much because of the way the transmission operates in this car. See the – sign on this paddle, that’s for down-shifting. Down-shifting is for when you want the car to go into a lower gear, like when you’re passing someone. It does the same thing as when you step down on the gas pedal a little harder for when you want the car to get up to speed quicker. When you use this paddle you don’t have to push on the gas pedal, you just pull on the paddle. Let’s go and I’ll show you. It’s very simple”. We get out on a clear road and he goes through the demonstration mode several times. Then he says:

Son #1: See, that’s all there is to it.

Mrs. j: And you expect me to play with those things when I’m driving? I’ll just leave it in Drive like you said before. That’s the way I have always driven, so I’m not going to change how I drive a car now. You guys can play with them all you want. Let’s go home so I can get dinner ready.

Both my Son and I got this HUH look on our faces and she said again, “did you really think I was going to use those things”? More HUH looks and we went home for dinner.

Now that was wasted test drive.

Maybe Isell would call her a stroke and I wouldn’t blame him.

jmonroe

She proved you and your son right. She won't use them...and her curiosity was satisfied.

Welcome back.

abacomike

I do use my paddle shifters mainly for downshifting when exiting the interstate or the turnpike.  I figure that it saves the brake pads from unnecessary wear.  Why not use the gears to slow you down on the off ramp.

I have 7 forward gears - so I downshift to 6th, then 5th, then 4th and finally 3rd.  By the time I get into 3rd gear, the car has slowed sufficiently.  

I don't up shift with the paddles as I feel it is an unnecessary process in an automatic.  I have a better feel of the road and more control when I downshift.

robr2

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. s.

Like I say, the ideal life is Florida or Arizona from Oct to May, and a condo in NH, Mass, Vermont, or rent a room from Old farmer for the summer.

I know you like Florida but having been there numerous time as well as AZ, I don't ever see myself living in either locale even for a few months out of the year.

Fair enough.....but, I wouldn't trade places for this:



Boston is a great city......to visit, not necessarily to live.

We don't think of Florida as a vacation spot or our home. It just gets us out of the cold and snow. You can be out almost every day all day long...most of the time with shorts and short sleeves. The sun is bright and the water is deep blue. It's like camp for adults!

But, not trying to sell anyone....it's getting crowded down here as it is. The Villages, NW of Orlando is the fastest growing city in the US.

Well this winter has been snowier than normal but it's not end of the world.

My in-laws lived about 15 miles south of The Villages. The Villages has been growing but it's at the expense of the counties it's located in. I read a book about the seedy side of the development.

As for growth, The Villages is the fastest growing metro area in the country but it only added 5,000 residents last year (5%). It's unincorporated and sits inside a number of towns and counties. The fasted growing city in the country is Houston which added 63,000 residents last year.

fezo

If you want Florida but with something resembling hills and little of what makes Florida God's waiting room try the panhandle. A great deal of it is wall to wall redneck but Tallahassee is a great small city and the surrounding area is great. You won't get out of winter all together but it's no big deal. I lived there the coldest winter on record and I was swimming into November and back by March.

venture

abacomike said:

I do use my paddle shifters mainly for downshifting when exiting the interstate or the turnpike.  I figure that it saves the brake pads from unnecessary wear.  Why not use the gears to slow you down on the off ramp.

I have 7 forward gears - so I downshift to 6th, then 5th, then 4th and finally 3rd.  By the time I get into 3rd gear, the car has slowed sufficiently.  

I don't up shift with the paddles as I feel it is an unnecessary process in an automatic.  I have a better feel of the road and more control when I downshift.

That's exactly how I use mine too.

henryn

abacomike said:

I do use my paddle shifters mainly for downshifting when exiting the interstate or the turnpike.  I figure that it saves the brake pads from unnecessary wear.  Why not use the gears to slow you down on the off ramp.

I have 7 forward gears - so I downshift to 6th, then 5th, then 4th and finally 3rd.  By the time I get into 3rd gear, the car has slowed sufficiently.  

I don't up shift with the paddles as I feel it is an unnecessary process in an automatic.  I have a better feel of the road and more control when I downshift.

I absolutely would not downshift to save the brake pads. Brake pads are much, much, much cheaper than rebuilding a transmission.

Now as to "better feel of the road and more control", those sound like very good reasons to me.

henryn

robr2 said:

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. s.

Like I say, the ideal life is Florida or Arizona from Oct to May, and a condo in NH, Mass, Vermont, or rent a room from Old farmer for the summer.

I know you like Florida but having been there numerous time as well as AZ, I don't ever see myself living in either locale even for a few months out of the year.

Fair enough.....but, I wouldn't trade places for this:



Boston is a great city......to visit, not necessarily to live.

We don't think of Florida as a vacation spot or our home. It just gets us out of the cold and snow. You can be out almost every day all day long...most of the time with shorts and short sleeves. The sun is bright and the water is deep blue. It's like camp for adults!

But, not trying to sell anyone....it's getting crowded down here as it is. The Villages, NW of Orlando is the fastest growing city in the US.

Well this winter has been snowier than normal but it's not end of the world.

My in-laws lived about 15 miles south of The Villages. The Villages has been growing but it's at the expense of the counties it's located in. I read a book about the seedy side of the development.

As for growth, The Villages is the fastest growing metro area in the country but it only added 5,000 residents last year (5%). It's unincorporated and sits inside a number of towns and counties. The fasted growing city in the country is Houston which added 63,000 residents last year.

I definitely believe that about Houston. Every time I hit the freeway for my morning commute, I believe it even more.

abacomike

@henryn said:

"I absolutely would not downshift to save the brake pads. Brake pads are much, much, much cheaper than rebuilding a transmission"

Using paddle shifters/transmission to downshift upon exiting a freeway should not do any harm to a transmission as infrequently as I downshift.  I do not allow my rpm's to go above 3000 when downshifting.  Additionally, my car is under warranty until Dec. 12, 2018.  

If I have paddle shifters and my manual says they can be used exactly the way I am using them, then what is wrong with that?  I am not abusing my car or its transmission.

dino001

abacomike said:

I do use my paddle shifters mainly for downshifting when exiting the interstate or the turnpike.  I figure that it saves the brake pads from unnecessary wear.  

Mike, this is like paying 2 grand ADM on a car to save on gas. Seriously, very bad idea. Wear on transmission is a much worse problem than brakes. Perhaps, it's not really your problem, considering how often you change cars, but I would not touch a used car if I knew previous driver had such habits. I know you don't have to care, but I will try to appeal to your better nature anyway, not to saddle future owners with potential issues.

Downshifting should be reserved for two things: acceleration, or long downhill braking or maintaining speed on serious Apline switchbacks. That type of saving brakes is legitimate.

fezo

Seriously, how often does Mike keep a car where a transmission issue would come up?

qbrozen

You guys do realize that even when just using your brakes in an auto trans car, it is downshifting itself, right? At least most do. My CTS will actually downshift more aggressively depending on the setting you are using. In Track mode, it downshifts at higher RPMs than in Sport, which is in turn downshifting higher than in Touring.

dino001

fezo said:

Seriously, how often does Mike keep a car where a transmission issue would come up?

He doesn't, but the next owner will.

dino001

qbrozen said:

You guys do realize that even when just using your brakes in an auto trans car, it is downshifting itself, right? At least most do. My CTS will actually downshift more aggressively depending on the setting you are using. In Track mode, it downshifts at higher RPMs than in Sport, which is in turn downshifting higher than in Touring.

It's downshifting, but when brakes are on, it remains disengaged, until accelerator is hit. The issue is with power downshifting, when you race rpms up to slow the car down. To me they only time to to it is at downhill cornering at switchbacks to prevent brake overheating.

Mike mentioned he kept the rpm limited, which obviously mitigates the severity. From what he described, it may be similar to normal driving condition downshifting. I don't mean to put it as a personal criticism, just more of a general comment that racing transmission down by shifting instead of braking is an undesirable habit from the point of view of long term durability. It won't show up in a year or two, but may contribute to shorter life of the transmission, which will have to be dealt by next owners.

murphydog

I see the same downshifting on both the wife's BMW and my Benz. 99.9% of the time the downshifting is in synch with what I am trying to do anyway. The ability to hold a gear while descending is particularly impressive. I never have to manually downshift.

qbrozen

dino001 said:

qbrozen said:

You guys do realize that even when just using your brakes in an auto trans car, it is downshifting itself, right? At least most do. My CTS will actually downshift more aggressively depending on the setting you are using. In Track mode, it downshifts at higher RPMs than in Sport, which is in turn downshifting higher than in Touring.

It's downshifting, but when brakes are on, it remains disengaged, until accelerator is hit. The issue is with power downshifting, when you race rpms up to slow the car down. To me they only time to to it is at downhill cornering at switchbacks to prevent brake overheating.

I don't think that's true. The trans is not decoupled from the engine. I can certainly feel each downshift in my backside in the CTS in Track and Sport modes. Plus, you'd feel it re-engage ( a clunk) if it waited till you hit the accelerator again. Not to mention, if it was decoupled while braking, the engine would drop to idle RPMs.

dino001

qbrozen said:

dino001 said:

qbrozen said:

You guys do realize that even when just using your brakes in an auto trans car, it is downshifting itself, right? At least most do. My CTS will actually downshift more aggressively depending on the setting you are using. In Track mode, it downshifts at higher RPMs than in Sport, which is in turn downshifting higher than in Touring.

It's downshifting, but when brakes are on, it remains disengaged, until accelerator is hit. The issue is with power downshifting, when you race rpms up to slow the car down. To me they only time to to it is at downhill cornering at switchbacks to prevent brake overheating.

I don't think that's true. The trans is not decoupled from the engine. I can certainly feel each downshift in my backside in the CTS in Track and Sport modes. Plus, you'd feel it re-engage ( a clunk) if it waited till you hit the accelerator again. Not to mention, if it was decoupled while braking, the engine would drop to idle RPMs.

You may be correct, especially on sporty transmissions. However, the automatic downshifts in the transmission happen at better matched rpms vs. when forced manually by the driver.

abacomike

fezo said:

Seriously, how often does Mike keep a car where a transmission issue would come up?

TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!

abacomike

dino001 said:

You guys do realize that even when just using your brakes in an auto trans car, it is downshifting itself, right? At least most do. My CTS will actually downshift more aggressively depending on the setting you are using. In Track mode, it downshifts at higher RPMs than in Sport, which is in turn downshifting higher than in Touring.

It's downshifting, but when brakes are on, it remains disengaged, until accelerator is hit. The issue is with power downshifting, when you race rpms up to slow the car down. To me they only time to to it is at downhill cornering at switchbacks to prevent brake overheating. Mike mentioned he kept the rpm limited, which obviously mitigates the severity. From what he described, it may be similar to normal driving condition downshifting. I don't mean to put it as a personal criticism, just more of a general comment that racing transmission down by shifting instead of braking is an undesirable habit from the point of view of long term durability. It won't show up in a year or two, but may contribute to shorter life of the transmission, which will have to be dealt by next owners.

As fezo commented, I keep a car usually one year, and this one maybe two due to the major body and styling change coming in the 2017 E Class.

fezo

dino001 said:

fezo said:

Seriously, how often does Mike keep a car where a transmission issue would come up?

He doesn't, but the next owner will.

Good point but how many here think when dealing with their car "Oh, I better keep it in nice shape for the next owner?" Sounds like the Audi CPO ads.....

Michaell

I've never driven a luxury make, but the last several cars we've owned have had the "manu-matic" option on the automatic transmission. We use it frequently here in Colorado to use engine braking when going down hills, rather than use the brakes, if there is snow/ice/slush on the roads.

In my Hyundai, the transmission will downshift to hold the set speed on the cruise control if I'm going down a hill.

I don't think either of those scenarios will damage or prematurely wear a transmission.

qbrozen

fezo said:

dino001 said:

fezo said:

Seriously, how often does Mike keep a car where a transmission issue would come up?

He doesn't, but the next owner will.

Good point but how many here think when dealing with their car "Oh, I better keep it in nice shape for the next owner?" Sounds like the Audi CPO ads.....

Oddly enough, it does occur to me. I once criticized someone for removing all the stickers from under their hood to "make it look cleaner." I explained that, as someone who will rely on the information on those stickers in the future, I'd be likely to pass up his car for another with the stickers, all else being equal.

Heck, if I took care of a car based solely on my personal time with it, I'd probably never need to even change the oil.

dino001

Michaell said:

I've never driven a luxury make, but the last several cars we've owned have had the "manu-matic" option on the automatic transmission. We use it frequently here in Colorado to use engine braking when going down hills, rather than use the brakes, if there is snow/ice/slush on the roads.

In my Hyundai, the transmission will downshift to hold the set speed on the cruise control if I'm going down a hill.

I don't think either of those scenarios will damage or prematurely wear a transmission.

At this point it doesn't matter, as you have to do it for safety reasons. It is necessary, regardless whether it's good, bad, or neutral to the car wear. However, I think it would wear the transmission faster than car used on highway driving without stops, just as any other harsh/severe driving condition. Just a fact of life that cars driven in mountain backroads will be more worn tham those from flatland interstates in moderate climate. My point was not to induce unnecessary wear beyond what is normal for a given driving conditions.

driver100

robr2 said:

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

driver100 said:

robr2 said:

That's right. As I often say - I can shovel snow and put on another layer. s.

Like I say, the ideal life is Florida or Arizona from Oct to May, and a condo in NH, Mass, Vermont, or rent a room from Old farmer for the summer.

I know you like Florida but having been there numerous time as well as AZ, I don't ever see myself living in either locale even for a few months out of the year.

Fair enough.....but, I wouldn't trade places for this:



Boston is a great city......to visit, not necessarily to live.

We don't think of Florida as a vacation spot or our home. It just gets us out of the cold and snow. You can be out almost every day all day long...most of the time with shorts and short sleeves. The sun is bright and the water is deep blue. It's like camp for adults!

But, not trying to sell anyone....it's getting crowded down here as it is. The Villages, NW of Orlando is the fastest growing city in the US.

Well this winter has been snowier than normal but it's not end of the world.

My in-laws lived about 15 miles south of The Villages. The Villages has been growing but it's at the expense of the counties it's located in. I read a book about the seedy side of the development.

As for growth, The Villages is the fastest growing metro area in the country but it only added 5,000 residents last year (5%). It's unincorporated and sits inside a number of towns and counties. The fasted growing city in the country is Houston which added 63,000 residents last year.

Rob, I think you are massaging the numbers a bit (and I am not a mathemtician). 5000 gain or almost 5% gain for Villages is much greater than 63000 increase out of 2.2 million, less than 3% for Houston (I think).

In New York the population grows by about 75k people a year (population almost 9 million) more than Houstons growth, but Houston has faster rate of growth. Everything is relative.

The Villages #1 growing metro area in the USA

cdnpinhead

I absolutely would not downshift to save the brake pads. Brake pads are much, much, much cheaper than rebuilding a transmission.

Amen, brother. Seems most people on here dump their cars before the warranty runs out, but that's not me. I go for the long haul & rarely get rid of a car with less than 125k miles, sometimes over 200k. Repairing a 7- or 8-speed automatic, or more likely just replacing it because no one outside of the factory knows how to work on it, would be an interesting experience.

That said, downshifting in the mountains to not overheat the brakes on long downgrades is essential. Yet another reason to be thankful for having a manual transmission. I drive a lot in CO and even here in AZ it comes up pretty regularly.

driver100

dino001 said:

qbrozen said:

dino001 said:

qbrozen said:

You guys do realize that even when just using your brakes in an auto trans car, it is downshifting itself, right? At least most do. My CTS will actually downshift more aggressively depending on the setting you are using. In Track mode, it downshifts at higher RPMs than in Sport, which is in turn downshifting higher than in Touring.

It's downshifting, but when brakes are on, it remains disengaged, until accelerator is hit. The issue is with power downshifting, when you race rpms up to slow the car down. To me they only time to to it is at downhill cornering at switchbacks to prevent brake overheating.

I don't think that's true. The trans is not decoupled from the engine. I can certainly feel each downshift in my backside in the CTS in Track and Sport modes. Plus, you'd feel it re-engage ( a clunk) if it waited till you hit the accelerator again. Not to mention, if it was decoupled while braking, the engine would drop to idle RPMs.

You may be correct, especially on sporty transmissions. However, the automatic downshifts in the transmission happen at better matched rpms vs. when forced manually by the driver.

I have just looked up a few articles that answer this question, and it depends, on who you ask. Most say there isn't much problem using downshifting, but some people believe it is better to put wear on the brakes than the transmission.........much cheaper to replace brakes.

I think this answer capsilized it all pretty well:

The theory is that you can save some brake wear by using the engine to brake you. The trade-off is versus clutch wear.

So you're both right, in theory it's possible that his method could save you some brake pad wear.

In practice, though, everyone driving the automatic version of your car is just braking, and it's a hell of a lot more expensive to replace the clutch or do transmission work than it is to swap out brake pads.

I used to be a "shift for everything" sort of person, now I'm of the "unless it's a big long downhill and you're maintaining speed, just use the damned brakes" camp.

I think it is a matter of personal choice. Having to replace one clutch recently, I tend to just use the brakes unless it is an unusual situation....like a steep decline. Using the transmission probably won't be a problem, but why chance it?

roadburner

I almost always double-clutch and rev match when I downshift, usually using the heel-toe technique. I generally downshift to put the engine in the meat of its power band- not to slow the car.

Mr_Shiftright

On my car, the clutch job-to-brake job expense ratio is about 6 to 1, so I'm content to burn up brakes. IMHO, if you are downshifting through multiple gears while in a straight line, you're better off doing that less and braking more. One nice thing about automatics, though, is that they don't allow you to bust through the rev limited on a downshift as you might on a stick shift. Also with the automatic, you tend to avoid the unpleasant experience of "compression braking" with a downshift at too high a speed.

fezo

"Heck, if I took care of a car based solely on my personal time with it, I'd probably never need to even change the oil. "

You and Mike.

As for getting rid of cars before they're out of warranty I'm the guy that buys them. Rarely buy new. Buy slightly used and drive forever.

dino001

roadburner said:

I almost always double-clutch and rev match when I downshift, usually using the heel-toe technique. I generally downshift to put the engine in the meat of its power band- not to slow the car.

Thats's different, but why do you double clutch on a synchronized transmission?

roadburner

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

I almost always double-clutch and rev match when I downshift, usually using the heel-toe technique. I generally downshift to put the engine in the meat of its power band- not to slow the car.

Thats's different, but why do you double clutch on a synchronized transmission?

Just for practice, and it does save a small amount of wear and tear on the synchros.

driver100

fezo said:

"Heck, if I took care of a car based solely on my personal time with it, I'd probably never need to even change the oil. "

You and Mike.

As for getting rid of cars before they're out of warranty I'm the guy that buys them. Rarely buy new. Buy slightly used and drive forever.

Would you prefer to buy a used car that has been downshifted to slow down, or one that has been braked only to slow down? Just in case you are interested in the E400 at trade in time.