Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

explorerx4

They would have gone without me, of course.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

They would have gone without me, of course.

You can't avoid the situation by saying you wouldn't have been there. It doesn't matter that it was a mall, the same situation applies if you were driving by on a street. You can't say, you wouldn't do something in a certain situation, because you wouldn't have been there.

venture

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:

They would have gone without me, of course.

You can't avoid the situation by saying you wouldn't have been there. It doesn't matter that it was a mall, the same situation applies if you were driving by on a street. You can't say, you wouldn't do something in a certain situation, because you wouldn't have been there.

You guys need to go to neutral corners for a while.

ab348

This thread needs a dose of Ty-D-Bol to get rid of the smell of you-know-what.

driver100

Don't take it so seriously.........

driver100

I have seen something similar at least 3 times this week;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UVebGYePRY
Yeh, a Prius in the left lane going much slower than normal traffic. Why is that?

imidazol97

Luckily @driver100 accident didn't end up like this.

driver100

imidazol97
Luckily @driver100 accident didn't end up like this

That is really bad, but, this was bad enough!

driver100

Imid, does that say SILVERADO on that crashed car? A GM?

jmonroe

imidazol97 said:

Luckily @driver100 accident didn't end up like this.

Man, that thing is gonna take a while to buff out.

jmonroe

Sandman6472

What did I miss in here? I don't get into this forum much so miss a lot. NY, left you a post in the CC forum about the question you asked me. Sorry it took so long to answer you but like I say, I don't get in here much lately. A bit busy with work and life in general!
It's all good though!!

Sandman6472

We were lucky when the kid bought her new Hyundai Accent in mid December. Pretty decent dealership and even though it took a bit longer to get it all done, chaulked that up to it being on a Sunday afternoon and there were a lot of folks in the showroom. But we were satisfied with the whole process and she's loving her brand new Accent!

fintail

Crumple zones! Very safe cars.

Your car had wheels not offered on USDM W212 sedans.

driver100 said:

That is really bad, but, this was bad enough!

driver100

fintail said:

Crumple zones! Very safe cars.

Your car had wheels not offered on USDM W212 sedans.

driver100 said:

That is really bad, but, this was bad enough!

I really liked those wheels, and they were the standard ones. Don't forget, that was a 2015 E400 which wasn't offered in the U.S. that year.
I sometimes wonder if we would have been walking around if it wasn't for the safety features of that car? And, that is one reason it is hard to switch brands, although I could, but it would take something really special for me to do that.

fintail

Definitely, if you had been in something like a Spark or Mirage, you might not be in the same shape today. You were hit in a vehicle with IIRC one of the lowest casualty rates on the road.

E400 was offered here in 15 and 16, it replaced the E550 in the lineup after MY 14. USDM W212 E400 will virtually always have the split spoke AMG style wheels.

driver100 said:

I really liked those wheels, and they were the standard ones. Don't forget, that was a 2015 E400 which wasn't offered in the U.S. that year.
I sometimes wonder if we would have been walking around if it wasn't for the safety features of that car? And, that is one reason it is hard to switch brands, although I could, but it would take something really special for me to do that.

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

explorerx4
@driver100,
You definitely showed poor situational awareness in one of those accidents

No, I did what I could, and I couldn't have done it any different if I could do it over again. I came up to an intersection, the green light was getting ready to change, there were cars going to be turning left in front of me, there was a bus stop with people, school age children.......I couldn't make it through the light on yellow, so I came to a gradual stop pumping the brakes....no way to know the truck would try to run the light....and I still would not have gone through the yellow because there was a good chance I would hit a person or car.
The only thing I could have done was let the truck go around me......but, no one could have known the truck driver wouldn't stop for what would be a red light by the time he got there.

Even the head of the accident division for the city said the truck driver should have been able to stop, since I stopped.....the pictures show it clearly.

Was there an estimate of their speed determined at the moment of impact? Curious about that.

That's a tough one. Were there any adjacent lanes to move into?

I was going about 40 mph......the last time I saw the truck he was about 5 or 6 car lengths behind. I knew the light was going to change, I picked out my spot of no return where I would go through the light if it changed, I wasn't close, so I pumped the brakes to give the truck time and he would see my lights flashing....when he saw the yellow light he gunned it instead...assuming I would do the same. There was another lane but I wasn't sure what was in it at that point, and I gave the truck every chance to see I was stopping. When he hit us we were sent diagonally across the intersection up onto a lawn......the traffic going the other way had already stopped or we would have been hit again...that shows how much time I had to come to a stop.

I think you have to at some point trust a truck driver is going to stop for a yellow light...you can plan and try to anticipate, but, there comes a time when you have to think if I stop and let him see I am stopping...he will stop too.

I agree. I think additional situational awareness COULD have avoided this wreck, HOWEVER, there is no way any blame can be placed on you.

Rear-enders are easy, and I agree with them. The garbage truck driver was grossly negligent. It's not other driver's responsibility to avoid grossly negligent drivers. Some ace drivers can do it (though not always), but the blame is squarely on the gross negligence.

Basic situational awareness is a reasonable responsibility and expectation of any driver, however, EXTREME measures and extreme situational awareness to avoid a collision are not a duty or expectation. If you weren't 100% sure the lane was clear, it is not your job to take that risk. Let the negligent driver cause the wreck, DO NOT involve another innocent driver in their negligence trying to avoid their negligence.

Many years ago my bus driver trainer told of an accident she had. A brand new Caddy pulled out in front of her and she t-boned him. Car was totaled. The Caddy driver claimed she could have swerved off the road to avoid the crash but the investigating cop told her that if she had done that and crashed herself she would have been 100% at fault. According to him she was in no way required by the law to take any extraordinary action to avoid the crash since the Caddy driver was violating her right-of-way.

Although driver100 sometimes dresses like Batman he’s under no obligation to drive like him.

I blew up my Kia front right tire avoiding someone like Batman. It was successful, I avoided them. If I thought I was risking more than a blown up tire, I'd have never made the EXTRAORDINARY maneuver. Almost got out Scott-Free...almost....Either Audi would have done it; the Kia lumbered too long redirecting its vector.

andres3

driver100 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

Speaking of the bad Kia Dealership.

I gave them a scathingly bad review on Google. Promptly, the GM responded. Much more prompt than to my other correspondence via phone or email/contact us web forms.

The response was slanderous, as it accused me of slandering them! LOL!

Good thing the truth and honesty cannot be slanderous by definition.

His misleading defense is that the pre-inspection showed one Key FOB. It was like a month before the return date and has no bearing on what happened on the actual return date.

I think we can all agree that if the car was totaled and towed in with zero Key FOB's I wouldn't have been given the credit of the "initial inspection condition" and 1 KEY FOB just because of the pre-inspection record. Therefore, one can only conclude it has no relevance as to what happened many weeks later.

Assuming their lease manager isn't a criminal, it is clear the problem is between the day I returned the two key FOB's (8/31/20), and whenever his "lease manager" did the return receipt paperwork, since he wasn't there that Saturday. I"m guessing due to the Holiday it might have been Tuesday, but who knows, as I was never given a copy of the return receipt. That's 72 hours where anything could have happened.

He did reiterate on his response that I was offered a copy, but he failed to mention that offer was in February 2020, when the car was returned August 31st. I already know it falsely shows 1 key FOB, beginning the mistake.

If your Kia guy is claiming one FOB at return because you didn’t bring both in a month earlier he’s playing games. We’re you told to bring both in on the earlier inspection date?

I wasn't told.... but it's on the fine print somewhere they claim (and I believe them). Apparently it's not just a "condition" inspection, but an equipment inventory inspection as well.

Still, I'm not paying for that oversight, as I wasn't "told/reminded" and the problem was remedied when I brought in two key FOB's 8/31/19.

When I helped my brother trade in his Hyundai Accent I felt I had to have a shower whenever I dealt with those guys. After promising around $6000 for his trade-in on the phone, then knocking it down to $4000 once we got there. I didn't expect to get the $6000, but, it had to be worth $4800. I would have walked out, but he had no desire to take further action.
Before he said he would give us $4000 right then and there. Once my brother agreed it changed to, since it was April 28th we had to come back on May 1st because he couldn't release the money until the next month...probably had to do with his incentive bonus.
He promised everything would be ready when we arrived on May 1st, nothing was ready, he had to have a check made up. When I said the salesman promised us a ride back he tried to get out of that...finally lined up a greenie salesman to take us back...the guy thought he was in Le Mans.
I get the feeling Hyundai and KIA dealers are probably similar.
Who would think to bring in 2 key FOBS for the inspection. If I understand what happened correctly, the KIA guy is saying you only brought in one FOB, he should have written that down at the time.....with your signature.

I agree, without a signature, I dont' believe their written "records" provide any proof of weight greater than my verbal recollection. Sure, they have two written documents showing 1 Key FOB. Both of them have zero weight as to what happened on 8/31/19 IMO. For all I know they doctored the paperwork and I wasn't there to witness it. I could doctor paperwork and "pretend" I wrote down that I delivered 2 Key FOB's too!

The collection agent lady tried to convince me I had no proof I returned 2 Key FOB's, and the burden of proof was on me to prove it if I was to sue the dealership, and either way, that my beef is with the dealership, not Kia Finance.

I don't agree on various grounds.... If the dealership has no tracking mechanism from 8/31 to say... 9/3, they don't have any proof either. And proof without 2-party involvement is worth no more than verbal testimony.

nyccarguy

@driver100

Getting rear ended by that sanitation truck like you and your wife did is reason enough for you to never even consider buying anything else but an MB ever again.

stickguy

it certainly did it's job sacrificing itself to protect the occupants. Looks like the back doors would still open OK.

driver100

Stick, yes the rear doors opened, we had to get stuff out of there. Mercedes purposely designed the rear doors so they could open after an accident, to make it easier to remove occupants. You can see how the crumple zones work to absorb the impact, but the passenger compartment area is a rigid cage and that area was still intact.
I have seen cars in much more minor accidents that leave the smashed car beyond recognition....it is incredible the damage stopped at the rear window.

imidazol97

The rest of the story. I couldn't find where this accident occured. I saw the pictures on a facebook page.

tjc78

That Semi Driver had to be seriously distracted and moving at a substantial speed at inpact.

Poor occupants of that Silverado. They didn't stand a chance.

imidazol97

More research and I found the story is from 2016. The myth that the pickup cut off a semi has been floating around facebook and others since them. A trucking company stated the pickup did not cut off the semi as trucking forums like to suggest. Instead, the pickup was stopped in traffic.

My point in posting the original picture was not to suggest that certain vehicles were magic and others weren't. But to suggest considering who's behind when slowing for stopped traffic on the interstate. It's been a few years and the mandated logbooks have taken a lot of semi drivers off the road who drove without the now requisite stops for rest and sleep. So those drivers tended to fall asleep or not realize traffic stopped in from of them.

I have seen cars pull onto the berm when they see a truck coming up behind them and traffic has stopped just in case the trucker wasn't alert.

We had a pickup driver crushed between two semis here a decade or more ago while I70 was being rebuilt. Morning traffic going to work. Stopped in construction. traffic.

An advantage to having pulled off onto berm is if the truck decides to take the berm when driver can't stop and they hit you, your vehicle will bounce off during the impact much as @driver100 vehicle did.

I did see a semi driver take the berm several years back and he hit a heavy support pillar for an overpass nearby here instead of hitting the cars in front of him when traffic stopped and he didn't see it until too late.

stickguy

I always check my mirrors when I see traffic slowing ahead for that reason. Don’t think I’ve had to hit the shoulder but might change lanes just in case.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

My point in posting the original picture was not to suggest that certain vehicles were magic and others weren't. But to suggest considering who's behind when slowing for stopped traffic on the interstate. It's been a few years and the mandated logbooks have taken a lot of semi drivers off the road who drove without the now requisite stops for rest and sleep. So those drivers tended to fall asleep or not realize traffic stopped in from of them.

I have seen cars pull onto the berm when they see a truck coming up behind them and traffic has stopped just in case the trucker wasn't alert.

I taught my son to "Check your six" whenever you come to a stop. One day what you described actually happened to him. He saw a box truck coming up behind closing fast and he pulled into the emergency lane beside the semi that was in front of him. The box truck only stopped a few feet short of the semi trailer.

roadburner

Speaking of driver training, I sent my son to the two day teen school at the BMW Performance Center. It's worth every penny in my opinion.

A few months later I sent him to Street Survival. In the Street Survival course the student drives his own car(in my son's case his "deathtrap" 1975 2002) and alternates time on the course with classroom sessions. At the start of the day we inspect each student's car and use the time as an opportunity to teach students how to check fluids, tire pressures, etc. One of the things we do is let each student sit in a semi tractor-trailer so he/she can see the massive blind spots common to those trucks. We also set off a couple of airbags so students understand the forces involved.

driver100

I was about 4 cars back, stopped at a red light this morning. I saw a big dump truck coming up from behind, going fairly fast...I was thinking about exit strategies. He came up faster than he should, but, I could see he was slowing down......he drove faster than he should have and got closer to my rear bumper than I would have liked, but, I was pretty sure he was slowing down.
With all the trucks and traffic on the roads these days, the driving test for large trucks should be much more difficult.

imidazol97

Don't worry. The auto driving trucks are here. They won't make any mistakes.

omarman

Ohio Self-driving Shuttle Service Stalled After Minor Incident.

jmonroe

roadburner said:

Speaking of driver training, I sent my son to the two day teen school at the BMW Performance Center. It's worth every penny in my opinion.

A few months later I sent him to Street Survival. In the Street Survival course the student drives his own car(in my son's case his "deathtrap" 1975 2002) and alternates time on the course with classroom sessions. At the start of the day we inspect each student's car and use the time as an opportunity to teach students how to check fluids, tire pressures, etc. One of the things we do is let each student sit in a semi tractor-trailer so he/she can see the massive blind spots common to those trucks. We also set off a couple of airbags so students understand the forces involved.

Thanks for that Street Survival link. But as luck would have it, they have a session in Wampum PA (the only reasonably close location to the Burgh) on September 12 of this year, that I would have liked Grandson #1 to attend but I think that date will hit dead center when he will be starting his freshman year at Penn State. I'll suggest it to Son #1 but I doubt he'll be able to make it. I'll have both of them check to see if a better date pops up. I think for a young driver with about a year under his belt right now, he's pretty good (observed him drive many miles when we went to Myrtle Beach last summer) but this seems like something that could only make a young driver better.

Thanks again for the link.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

Speaking of driver training, I sent my son to the two day teen school at the BMW Performance Center. It's worth every penny in my opinion.

A few months later I sent him to Street Survival. In the Street Survival course the student drives his own car(in my son's case his "deathtrap" 1975 2002) and alternates time on the course with classroom sessions. At the start of the day we inspect each student's car and use the time as an opportunity to teach students how to check fluids, tire pressures, etc. One of the things we do is let each student sit in a semi tractor-trailer so he/she can see the massive blind spots common to those trucks. We also set off a couple of airbags so students understand the forces involved.

I’d like to go to one of those.

andres3

I recommend a weekend HPDE type advanced driving school for every licensed driver in the USA.

Highly recommend it for new teen drivers. Unfortunately some clubs require a minimum age of 18 because well, EVIL INSURANCE companies.

benjaminh

After the experience with my new 2000 Ford Focus ZTS I doubted I'd ever get a Ford again. But I wondered if that was maybe a bit harsh. But Car and Driver says Ford is still having trouble with a vehicle that lists for over $47,000....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-honda-pilot-vs-2020-ford-explorer-comparison/

"Ford's problems become apparent the minute you crack the door open. At first glance, the interior is simply a bland mix of black plastics, but upon closer inspection, larger problems come into focus. A series of mismatched panels, plastics that creak while the car is in motion, and exposed wires in the driver's side footwell speak to both a poor choice of materials and a lack of quality control from Ford.

Even though the leatherette on the seats and steering wheel is vegan, they both look and feel more like rubber than leather. Despite the Ford's superior seating position, the seats are neither supportive nor comfortable; instead, they feel like lumpy pillows that were thrown together in the shape of a chair. Road test editor Chris Walton called them "gooey."

The quality issues Ford suffers extend to its non-physical components, too. Sync 3, Ford's infotainment system, is well-organized and clear, but the response to touch is slow, and its animations are laggy. Switching to Apple CarPlay doesn't remedy the problem, either. In my time with the Explorer, CarPlay crashed six times—most frequently after startup. Features editor Christian Seabaugh reported the same issue as well. The processor Ford installed in the base infotainment unit feels constantly strained and could certainly use an upgrade—soon.

The Explorer's driver's side wing mirror creates an undue amount of wind noise that whistles through the cabin, and a suspected panel gap at the base of the windshield near the driver let even more wind noise in at speed. Under load, the engine's gruff intake noise penetrates the cabin, and it's so loud I initially thought a window had flown open. Quiet and cosseting the Ford is not.

Seabaugh put it best when he said, "Gosh, this is the most disappointing new vehicle I've driven since the Ford Ranger. I can't believe an all-new, from-the-ground-up vehicle could feel so cheap and old. There's not any one thing wrong with the Explorer; it's more like everything is wrong."

driver100

Interesting review benjaminh. I hope our Explorer doesn't see it.
No messing around in that review. Their final verdict:

To sum things up, Ford had plenty of time to overtake the top-quality Pilot by building a better Explorer. But as is, it feels only half-finished, with questionable build quality and quality control issues hurting its chances against the SUV stalwart that is the Pilot. The Explorer will need some serious improvements to match the old Honda. But let's not forget, this is the company that was the first to abandon the car in the North American market to focus on SUVs. Even so, the new Explorer is a swing and a miss from Ford, while the Pilot, remains a stand-up double.

They sure didn't mince words, and since Ford is putting all it's eggs in the SUV/truck basket you would think they could do better than this.

I was thinking maybe a truck would be a good idea for driving around in Florida...extra protection, and the one that I would consider would be a Ranger...but, they said that was just as disappointing.

oldfarmer50

benjaminh said:

After the experience with my new 2000 Ford Focus ZTS I doubted I'd ever get a Ford again. But I wondered if that was maybe a bit harsh. But Car and Driver says Ford is still having trouble with a vehicle that lists for over $47,000....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-honda-pilot-vs-2020-ford-explorer-comparison/

"Ford's problems become apparent the minute you crack the door open. At first glance, the interior is simply a bland mix of black plastics, but upon closer inspection, larger problems come into focus. A series of mismatched panels, plastics that creak while the car is in motion, and exposed wires in the driver's side footwell speak to both a poor choice of materials and a lack of quality control from Ford.

Even though the leatherette on the seats and steering wheel is vegan, they both look and feel more like rubber than leather. Despite the Ford's superior seating position, the seats are neither supportive nor comfortable; instead, they feel like lumpy pillows that were thrown together in the shape of a chair. Road test editor Chris Walton called them "gooey."

The quality issues Ford suffers extend to its non-physical components, too. Sync 3, Ford's infotainment system, is well-organized and clear, but the response to touch is slow, and its animations are laggy. Switching to Apple CarPlay doesn't remedy the problem, either. In my time with the Explorer, CarPlay crashed six times—most frequently after startup. Features editor Christian Seabaugh reported the same issue as well. The processor Ford installed in the base infotainment unit feels constantly strained and could certainly use an upgrade—soon.

The Explorer's driver's side wing mirror creates an undue amount of wind noise that whistles through the cabin, and a suspected panel gap at the base of the windshield near the driver let even more wind noise in at speed. Under load, the engine's gruff intake noise penetrates the cabin, and it's so loud I initially thought a window had flown open. Quiet and cosseting the Ford is not.

Seabaugh put it best when he said, "Gosh, this is the most disappointing new vehicle I've driven since the Ford Ranger. I can't believe an all-new, from-the-ground-up vehicle could feel so cheap and old. There's not any one thing wrong with the Explorer; it's more like everything is wrong."

I think all those big SUVs are like driving boats. I much prefer the Ford Edge. I delivered one yesterday as part of a group of five vehicles. The general manager said “I’m driving this” jumped in and took off.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Interesting review benjaminh. I hope our Explorer doesn't see it.
No messing around in that review. Their final verdict:

To sum things up, Ford had plenty of time to overtake the top-quality Pilot by building a better Explorer. But as is, it feels only half-finished, with questionable build quality and quality control issues hurting its chances against the SUV stalwart that is the Pilot. The Explorer will need some serious improvements to match the old Honda. But let's not forget, this is the company that was the first to abandon the car in the North American market to focus on SUVs. Even so, the new Explorer is a swing and a miss from Ford, while the Pilot, remains a stand-up double.

They sure didn't mince words, and since Ford is putting all it's eggs in the SUV/truck basket you would think they could do better than this.

I was thinking maybe a truck would be a good idea for driving around in Florida...extra protection, and the one that I would consider would be a Ranger...but, they said that was just as disappointing.

Wait for the next generation Ranger. This one was said to be a place holder until a better one was developed.

ronsteve

oldfarmer50 said:

I think all those big SUVs are like driving boats. I much prefer the Ford Edge. I delivered one yesterday as part of a group of five vehicles. The general manager said “I’m driving this” jumped in and took off.

The Explorer is definitely like driving a boat and a very limited time behind the wheel of a late model Pilot wasn't much different. Kia Sorrento was marginally better but I definitely have no use for any 3 row SUV.

I did drive an Edge last year and it also felt unduly big. I wonder if the verdict would be the same after nearly 1.5 years with the RDX.

Tho I will admit I miss the turbo from my V70 so will there be a do-over?

Sandman6472

I like the Edge, pure and simple. Does everything right except, a bit too big for my tastes. The Escape is the right size but just not as good!

benjaminh

https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/virus-crisis-a-killer-for-global-oil-prices/

"Virus crisis a killer for global oil prices
Falling Chinese demand and fears of a global pandemic represent biggest shock to market in a decade
By TIM DAISS
FEBRUARY 26, 2020

The Covid-19 health emergency that started in China and is now fast spreading worldwide is having extreme contagion effects on the oil industry as global demand and prices coincidently fall. Oil prices fell by 4% on February 24, in line with tumbling US stocks, as fears of a possible economic growth-stunting pandemic rose on reports the disease is spreading quickly outside of China, including new outbreaks in South Korea and Italy....

China’s oil demand has already dried up by as much as three million barrels per day (bpd), cutting into its average consumption of 10.04 bpds in 2019, as industrial production stalls due to virus-containing factory lockdowns and restricted air travel. The collapse in Chinese demand is being likened to the biggest shock to oil markets since the 2008-9 global financial crisis....

To offset a loss of consumption from China, Riyadh has argued, output should be curtailed even more before prices fall below US$50 per barrel, a price point most producers view as destabilizing...."

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Wait for the next generation Ranger. This one was said to be a place holder until a better one was developed.

Yes, indeed. Odds are that it will be just as good as the just-launched Explorer! Wait, what?

stickguy

A big part of the problem seems to be the Chicago plant.

ab348

benjaminh said:

After the experience with my new 2000 Ford Focus ZTS I doubted I'd ever get a Ford again. But I wondered if that was maybe a bit harsh. But Car and Driver says Ford is still having trouble with a vehicle that lists for over $47,000....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-honda-pilot-vs-2020-ford-explorer-comparison/

Uhh, Motor Trend actually...

C&D did a comparison between the new Explorer and the Kia Telluride though, and had similar comments about the interior quality:

In interior style and quality, the Telluride doesn't just pummel the Ford. It punches well above its weight and delivers a near-luxury experience despite a price that screams "value." In contrast, the Explorer is a somber study in penny-pinching cost savings and hard, black plastic. If you measure luxuriousness by anything other than size, there are $30K compact cars that are more upscale than this particular $46,810 Explorer.

So yet another downer review of the Explorer. The assembly quality woes upon launch have been well documented and have been seen as part of the reason why Joe Hinrichs is out the door at Ford at the end of this week. But this speaks to more than just assembly quality and goes to decisions made during the development process on materials, systems and finishes. Hard to understand how Ford could have gotten so many aspects of such an important vehicle wrong.

If the new F-150 follows the same path, watch out for Ford's future.

qbrozen

A friend test drove pretty much every 3-row SUV out there. The Explorer was last, and he said it was the worst one of them all in terms of quality and material. He wound up leasing a Telluride for way more than he should have, FYI.

tjc78

You could probably lease an XC90 for less than a Telluride right now.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Wait for the next generation Ranger. This one was said to be a place holder until a better one was developed.

Yes, indeed. Odds are that it will be just as good as the just-launched Explorer! Wait, what?

LOL, Ford keeps shooting itself in the foot for sure. No wonder they’re chopping heads in the executive suite.

28firefighter

tjc78 said:

You could probably lease an XC90 for less than a Telluride right now.

Accurate

stickguy

Leasing is just such a mysterious animal. And addictive!

dino001

Seems like Ford's old ways of doing business are back. They'll "fix" the problems with 3-10 grand incentives ...

abacomike

benjaminh said:

https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/virus-crisis-a-killer-for-global-oil-prices/

"Virus crisis a killer for global oil prices
Falling Chinese demand and fears of a global pandemic represent biggest shock to market in a decade
By TIM DAISS
FEBRUARY 26, 2020

The Covid-19 health emergency that started in China and is now fast spreading worldwide is having extreme contagion effects on the oil industry as global demand and prices coincidently fall. Oil prices fell by 4% on February 24, in line with tumbling US stocks, as fears of a possible economic growth-stunting pandemic rose on reports the disease is spreading quickly outside of China, including new outbreaks in South Korea and Italy....

China’s oil demand has already dried up by as much as three million barrels per day (bpd), cutting into its average consumption of 10.04 bpds in 2019, as industrial production stalls due to virus-containing factory lockdowns and restricted air travel. The collapse in Chinese demand is being likened to the biggest shock to oil markets since the 2008-9 global financial crisis....

To offset a loss of consumption from China, Riyadh has argued, output should be curtailed even more before prices fall below US$50 per barrel, a price point most producers view as destabilizing...."

I just filled up with PUG at Costco - $2.72 a gallon. RUG was $2.27. I would think that prices will drop significantly with the drop in demand and reserves skyrocketing.

BTW, I just got 3-pairs of 2.25 diopter reading glasses from Amazon for $10.40 for all 3 pairs. Metal frames and spring-loaded stems. That included delivery since I am a Prime member. This is in preparation for my left eye surgery for cataracts in 2 weeks. I am using them now and find them terrific. LensCrafters wanted $49.00 a pair.

Perhaps I will be able to read and post a little more here on Edmunds. Once I get an RX for glasses from the ophthalmologist 4 weeks after surgery, I won't need reading glasses. I have never been foresighted before - always been nearsighted. Big change in my life.

driver100

Good luck Mike...hope it works out for optimum performance....the glasses and surgery, not the PUG.