My older sister had a Jag S Type. Bought it new. It served her well. Reliable. Relatively cheap to own and operate. I think it's 12 years old? I know she has in excess of 150K miles on it. Don't know much about the particulars given it didn't enter into the deal (she's giving it to her college aged son).
Know that her little brother knows more about cars than she does (and her husband is a lay down), I got the call to assist.
We started out with her top 3 brands.....Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar. I forced her to look at the Acura RLX. Funny thing, she really liked the test drive of the RLX. Price was right, too (mid $40s, loaded up). Where the Germans do a better job is "portraying" their cars as somehow superior. Great marketing.
Anyway, the RLX was immediately dismissed, much to my chagrin.
Jaguar was next to fall. She didn't like the XF or the XJ, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was how they were now about 2X in price what she paid for her S type.
So, BMW and Mercedes made the final list. BMW first.....we drove a 435ix, which I loved (mineral grey with red leather). She hated it....she said it looked like a Toyota Celica from the 80s. Please forgive her, she knows not of what she speaks....I'm sending her to remedial training to rectify.
Then it was onto a 328ix....loaded up.....$50K+ I was as surprised as she was that a 328ix could be loaded up that much. Still, I knew I could get "my guy" to work a nice deal....get it somewhere around $45-$46. Like me, she didn't like the crude "start/stop" feature with BMW, but as I told her, it's easily defeated.
She spied a 320ix, which she liked as well, a bit shy of $40K....could be bought for mid $30s I'm thinking. For her, she didn't need, nor want the extra oomph. But, she likes her cars like she likes her men.....loaded. It didn't quite tick all the boxes on that account.
Last, but not least, Mercedes. She was immediately drawn to the CLA. Gotta say, it's a sexy beast. But, I'd prefer the suspension in an F!50 that I would in that car. Plus, you can tell where the cost cutting happened.....inside and underneath. Even for a "non-sports" driver like her, it was noticeable. Plus, you're not going to get a discount on one of those. Dealers don't have many and they're getting MSRP for the ones they do have. High $30s to $40K seemed the norm. The 320i is a better car for the same money......in every respect (except looks).
She drove the E but was not all that enthused by the styling. I have to admit, I liked the previous gem's styling over the new one, too. Plus, it drives like a big car. Not sure I can put my finger on it as it handled fine and it responded well. It just felt.....well......like it was made for "older" people (no offense to older people here, which to my knowledge, there are none).
Having said that, she off handedly asked to drive the C Class. I assured her it was the same as the E, just a big smaller. Sales lady came around with a loaded C 300 4matic. My sister fell in love with it. Hard to figure why, since she didn't like the CLA nor the E. The C struck a chord with her. Two problems. First, color. She wanted black with tan interior (and no fake leather). Then, there was the fact I did not prepare an offer on a C Class (just the E and the CLA).
Requesting use of the dealership's wifi while the sales lady tried to locate the exact car my sister wanted, I did a hasty offer sheet. You guys know me....one price. I quickly figured $2,000 under invoice (guessing that there's some sort of trunk money on it given the '15 is a redesign). Figured taxes, tags, no doc fee included added to the purchase price....voila...my number.
I explained my number to the sales lady, how it was an all inclusive number, it was a one time only number, if she could find the car, we put a deposit down tonight.
It took about 20 minutes for them to find the car (in Chicago, but we are dealing in Indianapolis, where my sister resides. It was found. Sales manager came out to greet us, asking if we were ready to buy right now. We were.
Handshake, deal was done.
My sister is leaving on vacation tomorrow and they won't have the car until Friday. So, she'll pick it up then. She left them with 10 Benjamins and said she'd pick up the car when she returns. If they don't have the car by then, the Benjamins get returned.
@graphicguy said: Sales manager came out to greet us, asking if we were ready to buy right now. We were.
Handshake, deal was done.
Great story GG with a happy ending for everyone. It sounds like sis got the best car possible for her. Like I say, my friend was knocked out by the 2015 Genesis....every option known to man and beautiful stitched leather upholstry for under $50K.-that's with 300+ hp. About $60K for just under 500 hp. But sis like me wants the real thing, not the copy cat car. You only get one chance at this life game so may as well do it the way you want.
@driver100 I knew you would Genesis badge mystery. My wife has a Stop & Shop card. She fills up her car and one of the kids' cars to get the most out of the discount. Notice, never my car.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
@bwia said:
There is only one catch, you are limited to 35 gallons per fill-up. No worries for me as my gas tank capacity is 18.5 gallons.
There's also the catch with any "card" that the retailer can track your purchases and sell the data to marketers who then send you lots of crap based on your profile. Not to mention telemarketers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
driver...thanks. My sister's happy. That's all that matters. Plus, she took me out to dinner at a pretty nice place for my efforts, which is a lot more than I've received from helping others buy a car.
My sister's a brand buyer. If the brand is associated with luxury, regardless of how good or bad the product is, it's on her short list. The 6 cal C 300 isn't all that bad. I think a 328ix trumps it, an RLX blows it our of the water when it comes to features/performance and bang for the buck. But, I got the impression she was leaning towards the Benz all along.
As such, rightfully or wrongfully, I wouldn't have been able to get her into the Hyundai store. Now, if it were an upscale separate showroom (like Acura, Infiniti, Lexus)? Maybe. Maybe if it were called Luxo Limo instead of Hyundai, perhaps.
Q....sorry 'bout that. Volvo didn't even make her list, though.
@verdugo said:
Time to register my periodic complaint about the new software.
It doesn't remember the last post I read like the old softtware.
Instead it remembers the last post when I last logged in. So unless I read all the accumulated unread messages before I log off, I will miss some.
Can some of the mods please talk to the vendor? This is a very stupid design decision. Thank you.
Agreed. All we can do is mention it. Sometimes these issues get fixed, and sometimes there's some silly reason for it being a "feature."
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
GG, on behalf of the billions of Jag drivers on this board, let me just say, "D'OH!"
Congrats to you and your, formerly of wonderful automotive taste, sister!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
@graphicguy said:
My sister's a brand buyer. If the brand is associated with luxury, regardless of how good or bad the product is, it's on her short list.
Q....sorry 'bout that. Volvo didn't even make her list, though
Congrats, and you can now consider yourself a veritable car broker, and for troubles you should have asked for a referral fee. Recently, when my wife bought her Buick Encore I jokingly asked the dealership for a referral fee. To my surprise they sent me a $100 Visa cash card.
BTW, was your sister mildly interested in an upscale SUV? I had mentioned the Range Rover Evoque when you were soliciting ideas but I guess an SUV was not on her radar. They position themselves as the "Ultimate in Luxury and Performance."
"...To my surprise they sent me a $100 Visa cash card..."
I think they call that a "bird dog". When I bought my Eclipse I mentioned the name of a woman at work who had purchased at the same store. Her salesman promised a spiff for each referral.
As far as I know the promised spiff turned out to be a stiff. They never paid.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Two sales stories!
My son needed a bike for school and my wife and I wanted to start riding again. Turns out there's a small shop in Louisville that specializes in rebuilding and repairing used bikes: Old Bikes Belong
A very nice young man owns it; he helped my son pick out a Diamondback Voyager while my wife decided on a Giant Cypress. With a helmet and bike lock we spent less than $600. The shop is currently restoring my 1973 Raleigh Grand Prix- even in my early teens I was looking across the pond
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Funny thing, she really liked the test drive of the RLX. Price was right, too (mid $40s, loaded up). Where the Germans do a better job is "portraying" their cars as somehow superior. Great marketing.
But, I'd prefer the suspension in an F!50 that I would in that car. Plus, you can tell where the cost cutting happened.....inside and underneath. Even for a "non-sports" driver like her, it was noticeable. Plus, you're not going to get a discount on one of those. Dealers don't have many and they're getting MSRP for the ones they do have. High $30s to $40K seemed the norm. The 320i is a better car for the same money......in every respect (except looks).
She drove the E but was not all that enthused by the styling. I have to admit, I liked the previous gem's styling over the new one, too. Plus, it drives like a big car. Not sure I can put my finger on it as it handled fine and it responded well. It just felt.....well......like it was made for "older" people (no offense to older people here, which to my knowledge, there are none).
Having said that, she off handedly asked to drive the C Class. I assured her it was the same as the E, just a big smaller. Sales lady came around with a loaded C 300 4matic. My sister fell in love with it. Hard to figure why, since she didn't like the CLA nor the E. The C struck a chord with her. Two problems. First, color. She wanted black with tan interior (and no fake leather). Then, there was the fact I did not prepare an offer on a C Class (just the E and the CLA).
Requesting use of the dealership's wifi while the sales lady tried to locate the exact car my sister wanted, I did a hasty offer sheet. You guys know me....one price. I quickly figured $2,000 under invoice (guessing that there's some sort of trunk money on it given the '15 is a redesign). Figured taxes, tags, no doc fee included added to the purchase price....voila...my number.
Good job GG. Well told with a lot of perception about the forces in a person's car-buying, or even their car-shopping motivations.
@driver100 said:
I think the reviews were basically good, just have to read between the lines. If you take out some of the Hybrids which they ranked high even if you weren't interested in them, the Malibu comes in around 10th....and the total marks are close.
Keep in mind in the luxury department they gave Caddie CTS first place in a tight field, so I don't think they are bias....just trying to report in an organized way to make it easier to choose.
And they gave Impala top spot. I was surprised they gave the Passat a mild discussion. The car is liked by so many people in many variations from diesel turbo to plain.
I did more reading after your post while I was on vacation. I compared more of the articles. I think the people doing the reading of the other reviews and "test drives" aren't as astute at picking out the fakes and the talkers from the folks actually driving cars the way most of us would drive them.
I suggest the Motorweek method is wrong where the more they can squeal the tires on takeoff the happier they are with the car. The faster in the quarter mile the better they like it. They heavily rely on their expectations of a racing car rather than on the reality of use from the reports at Motorweek. They slant their evaluations such as the braking. I've seen cars they bragged on stopping in 128 feet with twitches in the car as "great" while cars from companies they like less which stop in 120 feet are "okay."
Only good thing I saw on Motorweek was that they had two women, one of their own who gives reportss and one from Edmunds IIRC, evaluate vehicles. I was amazed at how well they explained what they liked and didn't like, from a mother or taxi-mother's value system about certain cars. No squealing tires and acting as if every car should be a race car in order to be useful.
@graphicguy said: But, I got the impression she was leaning towards the Benz all along.
I don't usually bet but I had a feeling the Benz would win. My friend who told me about the Genesis and how impressive it was, said, one problem they do have is you have people in the same showroom with little kids and they are filling up on hot dogs and donuts and free drinks. Probably not nice to mention it, but, it isn't the best atmosphere for pushing a luxo car.
@imidazol97 said:. I was amazed at how well they explained what they liked and didn't like,
Good synopsis of reviews. Good reviews are hard to find. I find newspapers give information that is too positive....guess they worry about ad revenue. Some magazines review high end cars most people can never afford. Some like Consumers Report are big on practicality when practically may not matter to the buyer. The best we can do is sift through the information and try to see what car suits are needs the best.
I don't how you can review a sports car and a minivan by the same criteria. Sure both should have good brakes but from there everything is different. The priority for the sports car would be performance while the mini van buyer would be looking at practicality.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In the latest round of recalls announced yesterday, my Buick Lacrosse is on that list for a bolt problem in the driver's seat. They caution that owners should refrain from raising the seat until the problem is remedied.
In the latest round of recalls announced yesterday, my Buick Lacrosse is on that list for a bolt problem in the driver's seat. They caution that owners should refrain from raising the seat until the problem is remedied.
I believe our GMC Terrain may be on list for same issue, we shall see.
@bwia said:
In the latest round of recalls announced yesterday, my Buick Lacrosse is on that list for a bolt problem in the driver's seat. They caution that owners should refrain from raising the seat until the problem is remedied.
GM is being exceedingly thorough in addressing any slight flaws now.
My '14 Malibu had a trivial recall for a software update for the hydraulic brake assist. While there I visited the showroom to see how much of a safety threat the Camaro's ignition key recall is to the roadways. I sat in the driver seat and found it would be next to impossible for me to bump the switchblade key FOB to twist it in the correct direction to move the switch from RUN to ACC. I haven't heard of lots of problems there since the Camaro came out, but there have, apparently, been a few reports of that having occurred.
It certainly makes me feel safer to know the items that normally would not have been recalls are being taken care of.
Now we need to ask why the other companies aren't doing thorough recalls as is GM. We have to wonder how many hidden dangers lie in those vehicles while the drivers think they are safe.
@oldfarmer50 said:
I don't how you can review a sports car and a minivan by the same criteria. Sure both should have good brakes but from there everything is different. The priority for the sports car would be performance while the mini van buyer would be looking at practicality.
That's very true. But the folks testing at the magazines grew up on foreign brands during the period of malaise for some of the US brands. They will first be more partial to those with which they are familiar. Second, they tend to think everyone is a race care driver.
That's why I was so impressed with the two women doing a comparison of some vehicles on Motorweek several shows back. Of course, it had been set up in a chauvinistic manner in that they were looking for vehicles for a family's use rather than for general drivers and family considered as well. But they were evaluating cars on the bases that the other 99% of buyers would have for a purchase. I believe the Buick Enclave was one of their likes. I'll try to find that video if it's on Motorweek's site.
Edit: This is NOT the clip I saw on my tape of a Motorweek show, but I'll bet it fomented the idea of having a composite of this with some of the show's own clips of two ladies showing what they liked.
YOLANDA VAZQUEZ of Motorweek
CAROLL LACHNIT of Edmunds.com
If you watch the clip, notice the PC and the chauvenism. They didn't have the ladies testing regular BMW's for their feedback, nor regular sedans of any brand. Or did I miss that in the videos?
@bwia said:
With the Stop & Shop card (which is free) you accumulate points that can be used to buy Shell or Stop & Shop brand gas. I believe the lowest discount is 5 cents per gallon, but I typically get $1.20 off a gallon and the last time I filled up I got $2.40 off a gallon of Shell V-Power.
The problem with that program is that you have to spend 20% more to buy groceries at Stop & Shop instead of Market Basket where I go. But with the family squabble there, I have been forced to use S&S and Shaw's.
The $2.40 a gallon is great but that means you spent $2400 on groceries in the past 30 days!! The max is actually $2.20 and you earn $0.10 per gallon off with $100 in purchases. Still means your family spent $2200 at S&S in 30 days. Your max savings is $77 at the pump when you do so.
If it works for you, great. Since I have Market Basket nearby, I prefer the 4% discount on groceries they are giving this year as well as the lower everyday prices they have.
@imidazol97 said:
Now we need to ask why the other companies aren't doing thorough recalls as is GM. We have to wonder how many hidden dangers lie in those vehicles while the drivers think they are safe.
@robr2 said:
The $2.40 a gallon is great but that means you spent $2400 on groceries in the past 30 days!!
Not really. My wife is the one who does the grocery shopping and she is able to get bonus points galore. Don't ask me how she does it but she leverages her savings by shopping at both Shaws and Stop & Shop.
@imidazol97 said: We have to wonder how many hidden dangers lie in those vehicles while the drivers think they are safe.
That statement sounds like a classic case of turning a bad thing into a good thing. GM is being extra careful so is a safer company....the other car companies don't have as many recalls because they don't care. Maybe it is because the other companies build their cars with more care. Maybe they haven't allowed shody workmanship to creep into the culture.
I have a feeling GM isn't just being overly cautious, this is do or die for them. They can't get away with pushing recalls under the rug.
Some of the recalls are trivial, but many show sloppy attention to detail.
The automaker is recalling more than 822,000 cars worldwide for a variety of issues, including problems with seats, air bags and turn signals, parts that may not have been welded together properly, and a loss of power steering.
Some of the cars in the latest recall have already been recalled multiple times for other problems. The 2014 Chevrolet Impala, for instance, was identified in February as having a defective transmission shift cable adjuster, which could cause the car to roll away after the vehicle was parked. In June, it was recalled again because the ignition could shut off while the car was in motion, cutting power to the engine and causing the air bags to fail. G.M. recalled more than 65,000 Impalas on Wednesday for a loss of power steering, and it tied the defect to one crash but no injuries.
The company also recalled more than 475,000 cars — including models of the Chevrolet Camaro and Equinox; GMC Terrain; Buick Regal and LaCrosse; and the Cadillac SRX — because of a defect that allows the front and passenger seats to move up and down freely because of a loose bolt. G.M. said it was aware of one crash and three injuries related to this condition. It added that the car was safe to drive, but that customers should not use the power height adjuster until the car had been fixed.
Do I want to not drive my car because a bolt has to be replaced in the seat? There are so many other brands to choose from, do I need this kind of problem? The recall problem at GM is out of control, and I doubt it is because GM is the only company looking into problems....because they care.
@imidazol97 said:
YOLANDA VAZQUEZ of Motorweek CAROLL LACHNIT of Edmunds.com
I watched that Motorweek episode, and as a matter of fact I recorded it. I believe the theme of the show was what women want in a car. With that in mind I don't think it had a chauvinistic slant.They felt that the Buick Enclave matched their tastes and desires and as a result their top pick. In the end it felt like an Infomercial for the Enclave though.
@driver100 said:
Do I want to not drive my car because a bolt has to be replaced in the seat? There are so many other brands to choose from, do I need this kind of problem?
Still safer than flying. Two air disasters in two days? 116 souls perished today when an Algerian airline crashed. Yesterday, 48 lost their lives when a flight from Taiwan crashed due to severe weather conditions.
I know it is still safer to fly than drive but these recent airline disasters are unsettling.
How many people died in car crashes the past two days? Guarantee it was way more than died in those plane crashes. There is no comparison. Passenger air travel is way safer. Only difference is every crash makes the news, unlike cars.
@rbirns1 said:. Passenger air travel is way safer. Only difference is every crash makes the news, unlike cars
Not arguing, but I once read an article that said car travel was safer, if you consider exposure time. Plane travel covers many miles for a much shorter period of time. The article said car travel was safer if you only consider the time you are exposed.
Might be another, statistics can say what you want them to say.
I also wonder, at least you can do somethings to defend yourself in a car. Hard to be defensive when you are a passenger on a plane that is blasted out of the sky by madmen.
@bwia said:
I watched that Motorweek episode, and as a matter of fact I recorded it. I believe the theme of the show was what women want in a car. With that in mind I don't think it had a chauvinistic slant.They felt that the Buick Enclave matched their tastes and desires and as a result their top pick. In the end it felt like an Infomercial for the Enclave though.
So it was the Enclave they picked in one category! In the Heels and Wheels story I linked they picked the Envoy IIRC.
I'll give you that I'm a little picky about the chauvinism. But why not have the ladies do test drives of the Lamborghini on
Motorweek? Or the Golf they just tested?
What I would like to see is instead of having the testosterone-handicapped 30-year old guys test driving the various
Hellcats and other high horsepower and high performance vehicles, Let's let the ladies who are car oriented pick which
vehicles to test drive and drives ones that more of us are likely to be interested in buying. I would like to see the
BMW models critiqued by someone who is not interested in racing as their sole driving mode. Same for the many
others on Motorweek or in the car mags.
Maybe they could test drive the Buick Regal which just came in 1 point behind a BMW model in the testing
by CR of premium small cars, tying the C250. CTS and ATS were also near behind; 84, 83, 83, and 76/76.
And of course, the "testers," evaluators, or whatever they're called can't resist putting in the usual dig
about Buick, "“The Regal is a thoroughly developed and satisfying mid-sized sports sedan that’s more reminiscent of a German sports car than the** softly sprung luxo-barges that Buick was once known for,**” Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ director of automotive testing, said in a statement." At least they put in "once known for."
That's an example of what needs to be rethrough by people perpetuating stereotypes. My 98 leSabre was very comfortable
for driving to Williamsburg. And it cornered surprising well with a rear stabilizer bar and Monroe struts. My 03 was even
better equipped from the factory and had a much different feel to the ride, although still comfortable. Then when I put on Monroe replacement struts and shocks, it was too hard for 5000 miles or so until they softened a little. This is why I think was need to get
more typical people doing test drives and get them actually into the cars rather than just repeating what they think
a car is like and reporting from the publicity sheet from the manufacturer. Just my opinion.
I don't think it's just time. It's probably also a distance, as long as it is above certain threshold. There is no doubt in my mind that ten round trips from Atlanta to Boston are much safer on plane than by car. However, this may not be exactly same equation when you take some short plane trip (say Atlanta to Jacksonville, Florida) vs. short distance-low speed equivalent of local trips, at least in terms of probability of death. In other words, it may be more probable to get injured on a number of trips to a grocery store than 250-mile trip by plane, but less probable to die.
Statistics can be massaged, or twisted to show desired predetermined conclusion. Human fear of flying is a survival response to an unnatural act, such as getting into a metal (or now even plastic) box in uncomfortable proximity to other people, rising to 30 thousand feet at incomprehensible speed, trusting some unknown individual whose face we often haven't seen to get us where we want and afterwards getting on with you life in far away place, often at different time of day than that perceived by our body. Feel of total lack of control vs. a passable illusion of control while driving exacerbate that fear and allow us to get into car often without thinking about it.
The fact that plane crash makes global news, but a bus or car crash barely registers on local footnote means we "tamed" fear of driving, but flying is still foreign. It also means that it is safer, because plane crash is rare, yet car crash is every day.
Same thing is with natural disasters. We often read that storm or flood "killed X number of people". However, if we considered how many vehicular accidents happens in affected area on a comparable day, the headline should most likely be "hurricane saved X number of people", because at that time nobody was on the road.
> @dino001 said: > The fact that plane crash makes global news, but a bus or car crash barely registers on local footnote means we "tamed" fear of driving, but flying is still foreign. It also means that it is safer, because plane crash is rare, yet car crash is every day.
More likely it's because when a plane crashes it leads to hundreds dead while a car accident rarely exceeds 4.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
> @dino001 said: > Same thing is with natural disasters. We often read that storm or flood "killed X number of people". However, if we considered how many vehicular accidents happens in affected area on a comparable day, the headline should most likely be "hurricane saved X number of people", because at that time nobody was on the road.
I would think that natural disasters often cause more deaths than car accidents in the same area over the same time. Traffic deaths per 100 million miles is close to 1.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm sitting at LAX reading this discussion. Would be nice to be within driving distance of the home office, and in a month after we move, that will be feasible. I don't mind flying too much, but it's just more fun cruising behind the wheel of your own car.
@stever said:
I'm sitting at LAX reading this discussion. Would be nice to be within driving distance of the home office, and in a month after we move, that will be feasible. I don't mind flying too much, but it's just more fun cruising behind the wheel of your own car.
Google Maps shows the distance between Las Cruces and Santa Monica at 774 miles, or 11.5 hours on I-10. Would be a very long day, but doable.
Ya, two days would be the way to do that. I'm thinking circle tours and avoiding some freeways (that may not be possible in parts of Arizona). Been wanting to revisit the Bay Area so maybe that can happen next year.
@driver100 said:
That statement sounds like a classic case of turning a bad thing into a good thing. GM is being extra careful so is a safer company....the other car companies don't have as many recalls because they don't care. Maybe it is because the other companies build their cars with more care. Maybe they haven't allowed shody workmanship to creep into the culture.
That is a ridiculous statement. How about the Chrysler workers who were videoed smoking weed and drinking booze while on break? You think they don't do "shoddy workmanship" when they get back on the line? How about all the Ford recalls on their new model introductions? And need I mention Toyota a few years ago? Frankly, it's makers like Hyundai, Fiat, and Nissan I worry about, whose cars are often mentioned as having problems of various sorts, but never seem to recall any of them.
GM is recalling everything that has any problem reported relating to it. It might be one or two incidents for a given model, but they are recalling many thousands just to be sure. It gives some people an opening to bash them at will. Go ahead, enjoy it while you can.
@ab348 said:
GM is recalling everything that has any problem reported relating to it. It might be one or two incidents for a given model, but they are recalling many thousands just to be sure. It gives some people an opening to bash them at will. Go ahead, enjoy it while you can.
I doubt if GM would be making all these recalls if they weren't caught on the ignition recall. Now, they are being extra cautious because they simply cannot afford to get caught covering up another error.
Most of the problems are serious ones....I mean losing steering and bags not opening can lead to deaths. 60 recalls for 28 million cars in one year tells me there is a problem somewhere. It may be in engineering, it may be parts manufacturers, it may be assembly. I don't see large numbers of recalls from too many manufacturers - and these seem to be never ending. Of course there are going to be recalls, but, there comes a point when continual recalls mean something is not right. I think we are passed the limit I would accept....I wouldn't take the chance buying a GM car.....I don't want to have to park it for weeks while new parts are made.
If BMW had constant recalls I doubt if I would buy one until they got past the problems. I don't want to park a car I want to use when I want to use it. I don't have the patience or that much loyalty. It sounds like you trust GM no matter what, and you have made the recalls sound like a good thing. I think the recalls indicate a problem, and I am not there to support them no matter what they do.
That statement sounds like a classic case of turning a bad thing into a good thing. GM is being extra careful so is a safer company....the other car companies don't have as many recalls because they don't care.
That's your opinion and I certainly wouldn't attack anyone for expressing their own opinion.
Maybe it is because the other companies build their cars with more care. Maybe they haven't allowed shody workmanship to creep into the culture.
You can only hope, because you likely have no idea how many small things exist. In GM's case an employee and few others made
a terrible decision scientifically because the ignition shutting off turns off the air bags. The car still can be steered but is harder to turn. Brakes still work.
As to the switchblade keyfob, I recall my friend's Jetta and Passat having that same system. I wonder if those in the VW/Audi are susceptible to bumping by a knee and moving enough to turn off the ON power.
The company also recalled more than 475,000 cars — including models of the Chevrolet Camaro and Equinox; GMC Terrain; Buick Regal and LaCrosse; and the Cadillac SRX — because of a defect that allows the front and passenger seats to move up and down freely because of a loose bolt. G.M. said it was aware of one crash and three injuries related to this condition. It added that the car was safe to drive, but that customers should not use the power height adjuster until the car had been fixed.
Do I want to not drive my car because a bolt has to be replaced in the seat? There are so many other brands to choose from, do I need this kind of problem? The recall problem at GM is out of control, and I doubt it is because GM is the only company looking into problems....because they care.
I recall some Hondas having problems with customers complaining the airbags didn't go off. I see a current recall for Nissan about airbags. Maybe we need to start doing further research on other companies and their recalls or non recalls. Remember toyota resisted classifying the acceleration problems as other than short duration with the NHSTA therefore the interest in their true threat didn't come until more publicity.
Again I see GM's handling as a positive in a bad situation especially since there may have been deaths directly attributable to the ignition switches. As for for the others, many of the recalls are to check items and in some cases the recalls are for only a few vehicles within the set of vehicles identified because the recall involves certain options.
As for the bolt in the seat, you know more than I do on that one. I haven't researched to see just what is involved.
@driver100 said:
If BMW had constant recalls I doubt if I would buy one until they got past the problems. I don't want to park a car I want to use when I want to use it. I don't have the patience or that much loyalty. It sounds like you trust GM no matter what, and you have made the recalls sound like a good thing. I think the recalls indicate a problem, and I am not there to support them no matter what they do.
My neighbor is a shadetree mechanic supreme. He solicits and does work on many "premium" vehicles including Mercedes and BMWs. It's amazing what engineering exists in the BMWs that is problematic. Then the owners don't want to pay for it outside the 4-year service warranty, so they look for the shortcuts. Mercedes has quality engineering in their parts by comparison.
As one member of our discussion said recently, one car company has nurtured their image very well. I would just some car company's images to be not quite earned, but rather advertised. Lots of BMWs around here were bought or leased based on advertising for the image people perceived, but then by the end of the full service warranty those puppies have been traded for something else.
It's all in the image. And just as in politics a lot of smearing goes on because it's chic to smear certain people or groups. That's why I started pointing out GM has a whole different history than a foreign company does which moved into a niche with product US makers and their UAW workers as chains-around-their-necks didn't fulfill. GM has many changed products and I think it's only fair to consider those rather than stereotype them. However, the last few decades the evaluation is to look for one thing that a GM product didn't have that the other person's favorite vehicle did, and then that was the end of a fair consideration. I recall when Hondas had a 5-speed transmission and GM had 4-speed transmission. Lots of smearing because of the 4-speed (mine works very well in my leSabres, thank you for asking). But then GM came out 6-speed transmissions and all of a sudden Honda folks didn't think 6-speed was anything better than 5-speeds.
But to each his own opinion. I certainly wouldn't attack someone over it. I can disagree with it and make points, however. Further, I'm not here pointing out a list of recalls or service bulletins for other vehicles to downgrade their efforts. I'm sure no one wants GM & toyota to have problems especially of the type where deaths occur.
"It sounds like you trust GM no matter what, and you have made the recalls sound like a good thing."
Driver, recalls are never a "good" thing. Recalls can have a negative affect on corporate image if they are not handled properly. Recalls can be a nuisance to thousands of owners who have to bring their vehicles to the dealership for repairs. Recalls can give prospective car buyers second thoughts about buying a certain brand. Recalls are extremely costly as evidenced by GM's right off of almost 5 billion dollars for litigation as well as recall costs.
On the other hand, recalls can be a good thing. They correct possibly critical flaws in the engineering and production of vehicles and can result in saving lives.
GM is recalling anything and everything that can cause a problem in order to clean house, restore faith in its products and prove to the government it has learned its lesson about recalling vehicles. GM can potentially be fined billions by the government for hiding a flaw in their vehicles that they were fully aware of for over a decade. Thus, they are trying to prove to the government by these recalls that they don't deserve stiff financial penalties because of their recalls.
Would I buy a GM vehicle in the near future - NO! Would I buy a BMW or Mercedes or any other car made by a company recalling vehicles left and right or that concealed serious flaws for years - NO! It's not that I am ANTI GM, but rather concerned about buying a car from any company that has a history of recalls and/or concealment.
From the first day I bought cars in 1965, all I bought were GM cars - Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Chevrolet. It wasn't until 1987 that I ventured out to buy Mercedes and BMW's. You know I had terrible problems with 2-2008 535's and would not buy another BMW, no matter what. It would be the same if I had a series bad experiences with Mercedes.
I wish the best for GM, but until I could feel that they are building good cars again, I would not buy a GM product.
@ab348 said:
but never seem to recall any of them.
The size of GM compared to the US sales of some other companies means a lot more cars involved in a recall like this. Also, with many brands if they can keep the cars coming back to them for service they can handle "problems" with TSBs and silent recalls. I remember a coworker talking about his toyota in the 90s where it was in for warranty work for bad brakes on the rear and he went back to his car and they had the top of the engine off doing something to the engine as well. He was only told about the brakes which wore out fast, faster than the fronts. This was in the late 90s. Of course, with many people, they never knew that some flaw had been repaired besides the brakes, so they felt their car was just perfect--never had any problems.
Nobody prohibited GM do just what you described, they chose to ignore problems, blame and ridicule their customers when they reported issues, never volunteer to fix problems announced or not, and act only when there was no other choice. Yeah, those poor abused Honda or Toyota customers, Evil Japanese fixed their car and didn't tell them. GM way, i.e. not doing anything, is sooo much better.
Imid, let me start by saying I enjoy your posts, you put a lot of thought into your answers and you come up with some good info. But, just some comments at random;
@imidazol97 said: Then the owners don't want to pay for it outside the 4-year service warranty, so they look for the shortcuts.
That's like hearsay evidence. One persons comments don't matter too much. I have spoken to many people who once owned GM cars, now they own Asian or Euro cars and they will never go back. They weren't treated well in the past, and they have found there is a new game in town.
BMWs around here were bought or leased based on advertising for the image people perceived, but then by the end of the full service warranty those puppies have been traded for something else.
Some people buy a BMW because of the image it conveys. Maybe success, good taste, like refinement, appreciate superb engineering, etc. I buy one because I am never disappointed, I know the car will be fun to drive, I know it has been engineered to the max, I know it will retain it's value because people know they are good well made cars, I know it will be designed right and it will have the latest safety devices....no short cuts, no trying to get a car made for a certain price, and having to take short cuts to get to that price. I don't want to compromise on safety over a few bucks.
However, the last few decades the evaluation is to look for one thing that a GM product didn't have that the other person's favorite vehicle did, and then that was the end of a fair consideration.
I have a pretty open mind about car brands. GM may have changed, I am sure they have, they have to, but, I can only go by recent performance. I am not going to be the guinee pig who tries one to see if they really have changed. I am not tied to any one brand, but, I know all my BMWs, 4 of them, performed perfectly. I think one of them had a recall done. Others may have been done during service but that is even better like Dino said. No down time.
Further, I'm not here pointing out a list of recalls or service bulletins for other vehicles to downgrade their efforts.
It's easy to say you have learned from your mistakes and things will be better going forward. To me, words don't mean much....it's action and results. I hope GM does overcome these recalls, and the numbers are way higher in comparison to any other car company, but, I am not ready to buy yet. If I am 100% satisfied with my bmw, and it runs fine, why would I change for a car that has a questionable recall record?
@abacomike said:It's not that I am ANTI GM, but rather concerned about buying a car from any company that has a history of recalls and/or concealment.
I agree...I don't want to take the chance of my car being tied up with recalls. I heard one woman on the radio who had a Saturn in for a new ignition. It has been 6 weeks and the dealer gave her a loaner car, a Dodge. She said she likes the Dodge and will possibly buy one next time.
I wish the best for GM, but until I could feel that they are building good cars again, I would not buy a GM product.
I agree with your comments and understand why you would not buy another bmw. We had a 1995 Volvo that had numerous problems, and I doubt I would buy another Volvo. Like I say, I am not overly loyal to any car company, but, I do demand certain standards, I know I will probably feel good about a bmw, Mercedes, Audi and possibly Jaguar. I just wouldn't take a chance on GM. I think they will get through this, but, I don't want to be taking a car in for recalls all the time. btw....what about when the recall time is up and they tell you you are on your own now........GM has done that before too.
My problem with GM is that they only build one car I would consider owning- the C7 Corvette. Nothing else GM cranks out interests me in the slightest. I've even recommended GM products to a few friends, but the chance of me(or my family) buying one is close to zero.
Having said that, the same is true of almost every other brand out there except for BMW, Jeep, Mazda, or Porsche...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
@dino001 said: Yeah, those poor abused Honda or Toyota customers, Evil Japanese fixed their car and didn't tell them. GM way, i.e. not doing anything, is sooo much better.
Perfect! I couldn't have said it better. You are right about being forced to make repairs too....before that they wouldn't even pay for people killed because of a failure. Well, maybe this is the new GM....am I going to be the one to risk finding out if they really have changed, I don't think so.
Comments
So, got a car buying store for everyone.
My older sister had a Jag S Type. Bought it new. It served her well. Reliable. Relatively cheap to own and operate. I think it's 12 years old? I know she has in excess of 150K miles on it. Don't know much about the particulars given it didn't enter into the deal (she's giving it to her college aged son).
Know that her little brother knows more about cars than she does (and her husband is a lay down), I got the call to assist.
We started out with her top 3 brands.....Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar. I forced her to look at the Acura RLX. Funny thing, she really liked the test drive of the RLX. Price was right, too (mid $40s, loaded up). Where the Germans do a better job is "portraying" their cars as somehow superior. Great marketing.
Anyway, the RLX was immediately dismissed, much to my chagrin.
Jaguar was next to fall. She didn't like the XF or the XJ, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was how they were now about 2X in price what she paid for her S type.
So, BMW and Mercedes made the final list. BMW first.....we drove a 435ix, which I loved (mineral grey with red leather). She hated it....she said it looked like a Toyota Celica from the 80s. Please forgive her, she knows not of what she speaks....I'm sending her to remedial training to rectify.
Then it was onto a 328ix....loaded up.....$50K+ I was as surprised as she was that a 328ix could be loaded up that much. Still, I knew I could get "my guy" to work a nice deal....get it somewhere around $45-$46. Like me, she didn't like the crude "start/stop" feature with BMW, but as I told her, it's easily defeated.
She spied a 320ix, which she liked as well, a bit shy of $40K....could be bought for mid $30s I'm thinking. For her, she didn't need, nor want the extra oomph. But, she likes her cars like she likes her men.....loaded. It didn't quite tick all the boxes on that account.
Last, but not least, Mercedes. She was immediately drawn to the CLA. Gotta say, it's a sexy beast. But, I'd prefer the suspension in an F!50 that I would in that car. Plus, you can tell where the cost cutting happened.....inside and underneath. Even for a "non-sports" driver like her, it was noticeable. Plus, you're not going to get a discount on one of those. Dealers don't have many and they're getting MSRP for the ones they do have. High $30s to $40K seemed the norm. The 320i is a better car for the same money......in every respect (except looks).
She drove the E but was not all that enthused by the styling. I have to admit, I liked the previous gem's styling over the new one, too. Plus, it drives like a big car. Not sure I can put my finger on it as it handled fine and it responded well. It just felt.....well......like it was made for "older" people (no offense to older people here, which to my knowledge, there are none).
Having said that, she off handedly asked to drive the C Class. I assured her it was the same as the E, just a big smaller. Sales lady came around with a loaded C 300 4matic. My sister fell in love with it. Hard to figure why, since she didn't like the CLA nor the E. The C struck a chord with her. Two problems. First, color. She wanted black with tan interior (and no fake leather). Then, there was the fact I did not prepare an offer on a C Class (just the E and the CLA).
Requesting use of the dealership's wifi while the sales lady tried to locate the exact car my sister wanted, I did a hasty offer sheet. You guys know me....one price. I quickly figured $2,000 under invoice (guessing that there's some sort of trunk money on it given the '15 is a redesign). Figured taxes, tags, no doc fee included added to the purchase price....voila...my number.
I explained my number to the sales lady, how it was an all inclusive number, it was a one time only number, if she could find the car, we put a deposit down tonight.
It took about 20 minutes for them to find the car (in Chicago, but we are dealing in Indianapolis, where my sister resides. It was found. Sales manager came out to greet us, asking if we were ready to buy right now. We were.
Handshake, deal was done.
My sister is leaving on vacation tomorrow and they won't have the car until Friday. So, she'll pick it up then. She left them with 10 Benjamins and said she'd pick up the car when she returns. If they don't have the car by then, the Benjamins get returned.
Everyone's happy!
Handshake, deal was done.
Great story GG with a happy ending for everyone. It sounds like sis got the best car possible for her. Like I say, my friend was knocked out by the 2015 Genesis....every option known to man and beautiful stitched leather upholstry for under $50K.-that's with 300+ hp. About $60K for just under 500 hp. But sis like me wants the real thing, not the copy cat car. You only get one chance at this life game so may as well do it the way you want.
You did very well and sis should be plaeased.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
darn, thought the story might turn to a Volvo store. Oh well. ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Time to register my periodic complaint about the new software.
It doesn't remember the last post I read like the old softtware.
Instead it remembers the last post when I last logged in. So unless I read all the accumulated unread messages before I log off, I will miss some.
Can some of the mods please talk to the vendor? This is a very stupid design decision. Thank you.
@driver100 I knew you would Genesis badge mystery.
My wife has a Stop & Shop card. She fills up her car and one of the kids' cars to get the most out of the discount. Notice, never my car.
There's also the catch with any "card" that the retailer can track your purchases and sell the data to marketers who then send you lots of crap based on your profile. Not to mention telemarketers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
driver...thanks. My sister's happy. That's all that matters. Plus, she took me out to dinner at a pretty nice place for my efforts, which is a lot more than I've received from helping others buy a car.
My sister's a brand buyer. If the brand is associated with luxury, regardless of how good or bad the product is, it's on her short list. The 6 cal C 300 isn't all that bad. I think a 328ix trumps it, an RLX blows it our of the water when it comes to features/performance and bang for the buck. But, I got the impression she was leaning towards the Benz all along.
As such, rightfully or wrongfully, I wouldn't have been able to get her into the Hyundai store. Now, if it were an upscale separate showroom (like Acura, Infiniti, Lexus)? Maybe. Maybe if it were called Luxo Limo instead of Hyundai, perhaps.
Q....sorry 'bout that. Volvo didn't even make her list, though.
Agreed. All we can do is mention it. Sometimes these issues get fixed, and sometimes there's some silly reason for it being a "feature."
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
GG, on behalf of the billions of Jag drivers on this board, let me just say, "D'OH!"
Congrats to you and your, formerly of wonderful automotive taste, sister!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Congrats, and you can now consider yourself a veritable car broker, and for troubles you should have asked for a referral fee. Recently, when my wife bought her Buick Encore I jokingly asked the dealership for a referral fee. To my surprise they sent me a $100 Visa cash card.
BTW, was your sister mildly interested in an upscale SUV? I had mentioned the Range Rover Evoque when you were soliciting ideas but I guess an SUV was not on her radar. They position themselves as the "Ultimate in Luxury and Performance."
"...To my surprise they sent me a $100 Visa cash card..."
I think they call that a "bird dog". When I bought my Eclipse I mentioned the name of a woman at work who had purchased at the same store. Her salesman promised a spiff for each referral.
As far as I know the promised spiff turned out to be a stiff. They never paid.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Two sales stories!
My son needed a bike for school and my wife and I wanted to start riding again. Turns out there's a small shop in Louisville that specializes in rebuilding and repairing used bikes: Old Bikes Belong
A very nice young man owns it; he helped my son pick out a Diamondback Voyager while my wife decided on a Giant Cypress. With a helmet and bike lock we spent less than $600. The shop is currently restoring my 1973 Raleigh Grand Prix- even in my early teens I was looking across the pond
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Funny thing, she really liked the test drive of the RLX. Price was right, too (mid $40s, loaded up). Where the Germans do a better job is "portraying" their cars as somehow superior. Great marketing.
Good job GG. Well told with a lot of perception about the forces in a person's car-buying, or even their car-shopping motivations.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And they gave Impala top spot. I was surprised they gave the Passat a mild discussion. The car is liked by so many people in many variations from diesel turbo to plain.
I did more reading after your post while I was on vacation. I compared more of the articles. I think the people doing the reading of the other reviews and "test drives" aren't as astute at picking out the fakes and the talkers from the folks actually driving cars the way most of us would drive them.
I suggest the Motorweek method is wrong where the more they can squeal the tires on takeoff the happier they are with the car. The faster in the quarter mile the better they like it. They heavily rely on their expectations of a racing car rather than on the reality of use from the reports at Motorweek. They slant their evaluations such as the braking. I've seen cars they bragged on stopping in 128 feet with twitches in the car as "great" while cars from companies they like less which stop in 120 feet are "okay."
Only good thing I saw on Motorweek was that they had two women, one of their own who gives reportss and one from Edmunds IIRC, evaluate vehicles. I was amazed at how well they explained what they liked and didn't like, from a mother or taxi-mother's value system about certain cars. No squealing tires and acting as if every car should be a race car in order to be useful.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't usually bet but I had a feeling the Benz would win. My friend who told me about the Genesis and how impressive it was, said, one problem they do have is you have people in the same showroom with little kids and they are filling up on hot dogs and donuts and free drinks. Probably not nice to mention it, but, it isn't the best atmosphere for pushing a luxo car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good synopsis of reviews. Good reviews are hard to find. I find newspapers give information that is too positive....guess they worry about ad revenue. Some magazines review high end cars most people can never afford. Some like Consumers Report are big on practicality when practically may not matter to the buyer. The best we can do is sift through the information and try to see what car suits are needs the best.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
On car reviews:
I don't how you can review a sports car and a minivan by the same criteria. Sure both should have good brakes but from there everything is different. The priority for the sports car would be performance while the mini van buyer would be looking at practicality.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Oh, Oh
In the latest round of recalls announced yesterday, my Buick Lacrosse is on that list for a bolt problem in the driver's seat. They caution that owners should refrain from raising the seat until the problem is remedied.
I believe our GMC Terrain may be on list for same issue, we shall see.
GM is being exceedingly thorough in addressing any slight flaws now.
My '14 Malibu had a trivial recall for a software update for the hydraulic brake assist. While there I visited the showroom to see how much of a safety threat the Camaro's ignition key recall is to the roadways. I sat in the driver seat and found it would be next to impossible for me to bump the switchblade key FOB to twist it in the correct direction to move the switch from RUN to ACC. I haven't heard of lots of problems there since the Camaro came out, but there have, apparently, been a few reports of that having occurred.
It certainly makes me feel safer to know the items that normally would not have been recalls are being taken care of.
Now we need to ask why the other companies aren't doing thorough recalls as is GM. We have to wonder how many hidden dangers lie in those vehicles while the drivers think they are safe.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's very true. But the folks testing at the magazines grew up on foreign brands during the period of malaise for some of the US brands. They will first be more partial to those with which they are familiar. Second, they tend to think everyone is a race care driver.
That's why I was so impressed with the two women doing a comparison of some vehicles on Motorweek several shows back. Of course, it had been set up in a chauvinistic manner in that they were looking for vehicles for a family's use rather than for general drivers and family considered as well. But they were evaluating cars on the bases that the other 99% of buyers would have for a purchase. I believe the Buick Enclave was one of their likes. I'll try to find that video if it's on Motorweek's site.
Edit: This is NOT the clip I saw on my tape of a Motorweek show, but I'll bet it fomented the idea of having a composite of this with some of the show's own clips of two ladies showing what they liked.
YOLANDA VAZQUEZ of Motorweek
CAROLL LACHNIT of Edmunds.com
If you watch the clip, notice the PC and the chauvenism. They didn't have the ladies testing regular BMW's for their feedback, nor regular sedans of any brand. Or did I miss that in the videos?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The problem with that program is that you have to spend 20% more to buy groceries at Stop & Shop instead of Market Basket where I go. But with the family squabble there, I have been forced to use S&S and Shaw's.
The $2.40 a gallon is great but that means you spent $2400 on groceries in the past 30 days!! The max is actually $2.20 and you earn $0.10 per gallon off with $100 in purchases. Still means your family spent $2200 at S&S in 30 days. Your max savings is $77 at the pump when you do so.
If it works for you, great. Since I have Market Basket nearby, I prefer the 4% discount on groceries they are giving this year as well as the lower everyday prices they have.
Exactly.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Not really. My wife is the one who does the grocery shopping and she is able to get bonus points galore. Don't ask me how she does it but she leverages her savings by shopping at both Shaws and Stop & Shop.
That statement sounds like a classic case of turning a bad thing into a good thing. GM is being extra careful so is a safer company....the other car companies don't have as many recalls because they don't care. Maybe it is because the other companies build their cars with more care. Maybe they haven't allowed shody workmanship to creep into the culture.
I have a feeling GM isn't just being overly cautious, this is do or die for them. They can't get away with pushing recalls under the rug.
Some of the recalls are trivial, but many show sloppy attention to detail.
The automaker is recalling more than 822,000 cars worldwide for a variety of issues, including problems with seats, air bags and turn signals, parts that may not have been welded together properly, and a loss of power steering.
Some of the cars in the latest recall have already been recalled multiple times for other problems. The 2014 Chevrolet Impala, for instance, was identified in February as having a defective transmission shift cable adjuster, which could cause the car to roll away after the vehicle was parked. In June, it was recalled again because the ignition could shut off while the car was in motion, cutting power to the engine and causing the air bags to fail. G.M. recalled more than 65,000 Impalas on Wednesday for a loss of power steering, and it tied the defect to one crash but no injuries.
The company also recalled more than 475,000 cars — including models of the Chevrolet Camaro and Equinox; GMC Terrain; Buick Regal and LaCrosse; and the Cadillac SRX — because of a defect that allows the front and passenger seats to move up and down freely because of a loose bolt. G.M. said it was aware of one crash and three injuries related to this condition. It added that the car was safe to drive, but that customers should not use the power height adjuster until the car had been fixed.
Do I want to not drive my car because a bolt has to be replaced in the seat? There are so many other brands to choose from, do I need this kind of problem? The recall problem at GM is out of control, and I doubt it is because GM is the only company looking into problems....because they care.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I watched that Motorweek episode, and as a matter of fact I recorded it. I believe the theme of the show was what women want in a car. With that in mind I don't think it had a chauvinistic slant.They felt that the Buick Enclave matched their tastes and desires and as a result their top pick. In the end it felt like an Infomercial for the Enclave though.
Still safer than flying. Two air disasters in two days? 116 souls perished today when an Algerian airline crashed. Yesterday, 48 lost their lives when a flight from Taiwan crashed due to severe weather conditions.
I know it is still safer to fly than drive but these recent airline disasters are unsettling.
Are you planning a trip to Mali or Malaysia soon?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Everything on motor week cones across as an infomercial.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
How many people died in car crashes the past two days? Guarantee it was way more than died in those plane crashes. There is no comparison. Passenger air travel is way safer. Only difference is every crash makes the news, unlike cars.
Not arguing, but I once read an article that said car travel was safer, if you consider exposure time. Plane travel covers many miles for a much shorter period of time. The article said car travel was safer if you only consider the time you are exposed.
Might be another, statistics can say what you want them to say.
I also wonder, at least you can do somethings to defend yourself in a car. Hard to be defensive when you are a passenger on a plane that is blasted out of the sky by madmen.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
So it was the Enclave they picked in one category! In the Heels and Wheels story I linked they picked the Envoy IIRC.
I'll give you that I'm a little picky about the chauvinism. But why not have the ladies do test drives of the Lamborghini on
Motorweek? Or the Golf they just tested?
What I would like to see is instead of having the testosterone-handicapped 30-year old guys test driving the various
Hellcats and other high horsepower and high performance vehicles, Let's let the ladies who are car oriented pick which
vehicles to test drive and drives ones that more of us are likely to be interested in buying. I would like to see the
BMW models critiqued by someone who is not interested in racing as their sole driving mode. Same for the many
others on Motorweek or in the car mags.
Maybe they could test drive the Buick Regal which just came in 1 point behind a BMW model in the testing
by CR of premium small cars, tying the C250. CTS and ATS were also near behind; 84, 83, 83, and 76/76.
But we won't see that touted around the internet by the car mags or Motorweek.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20140722/RETAIL03/140729989/buick-regal-volvo-s60-join-consumer-reports-list-of-top-upscale
And of course, the "testers," evaluators, or whatever they're called can't resist putting in the usual dig
about Buick, "“The Regal is a thoroughly developed and satisfying mid-sized sports sedan that’s more reminiscent of a German sports car than the** softly sprung luxo-barges that Buick was once known for,**” Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ director of automotive testing, said in a statement." At least they put in "once known for."
That's an example of what needs to be rethrough by people perpetuating stereotypes. My 98 leSabre was very comfortable
for driving to Williamsburg. And it cornered surprising well with a rear stabilizer bar and Monroe struts. My 03 was even
better equipped from the factory and had a much different feel to the ride, although still comfortable. Then when I put on Monroe replacement struts and shocks, it was too hard for 5000 miles or so until they softened a little. This is why I think was need to get
more typical people doing test drives and get them actually into the cars rather than just repeating what they think
a car is like and reporting from the publicity sheet from the manufacturer. Just my opinion.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't think it's just time. It's probably also a distance, as long as it is above certain threshold. There is no doubt in my mind that ten round trips from Atlanta to Boston are much safer on plane than by car. However, this may not be exactly same equation when you take some short plane trip (say Atlanta to Jacksonville, Florida) vs. short distance-low speed equivalent of local trips, at least in terms of probability of death. In other words, it may be more probable to get injured on a number of trips to a grocery store than 250-mile trip by plane, but less probable to die.
Statistics can be massaged, or twisted to show desired predetermined conclusion. Human fear of flying is a survival response to an unnatural act, such as getting into a metal (or now even plastic) box in uncomfortable proximity to other people, rising to 30 thousand feet at incomprehensible speed, trusting some unknown individual whose face we often haven't seen to get us where we want and afterwards getting on with you life in far away place, often at different time of day than that perceived by our body. Feel of total lack of control vs. a passable illusion of control while driving exacerbate that fear and allow us to get into car often without thinking about it.
The fact that plane crash makes global news, but a bus or car crash barely registers on local footnote means we "tamed" fear of driving, but flying is still foreign. It also means that it is safer, because plane crash is rare, yet car crash is every day.
Same thing is with natural disasters. We often read that storm or flood "killed X number of people". However, if we considered how many vehicular accidents happens in affected area on a comparable day, the headline should most likely be "hurricane saved X number of people", because at that time nobody was on the road.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
> The fact that plane crash makes global news, but a bus or car crash barely registers on local footnote means we "tamed" fear of driving, but flying is still foreign. It also means that it is safer, because plane crash is rare, yet car crash is every day.
More likely it's because when a plane crashes it leads to hundreds dead while a car accident rarely exceeds 4.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
> Same thing is with natural disasters. We often read that storm or flood "killed X number of people". However, if we considered how many vehicular accidents happens in affected area on a comparable day, the headline should most likely be "hurricane saved X number of people", because at that time nobody was on the road.
I would think that natural disasters often cause more deaths than car accidents in the same area over the same time. Traffic deaths per 100 million miles is close to 1.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm sitting at LAX reading this discussion. Would be nice to be within driving distance of the home office, and in a month after we move, that will be feasible. I don't mind flying too much, but it's just more fun cruising behind the wheel of your own car.
Google Maps shows the distance between Las Cruces and Santa Monica at 774 miles, or 11.5 hours on I-10. Would be a very long day, but doable.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Ya, two days would be the way to do that. I'm thinking circle tours and avoiding some freeways (that may not be possible in parts of Arizona). Been wanting to revisit the Bay Area so maybe that can happen next year.
That is a ridiculous statement. How about the Chrysler workers who were videoed smoking weed and drinking booze while on break? You think they don't do "shoddy workmanship" when they get back on the line? How about all the Ford recalls on their new model introductions? And need I mention Toyota a few years ago? Frankly, it's makers like Hyundai, Fiat, and Nissan I worry about, whose cars are often mentioned as having problems of various sorts, but never seem to recall any of them.
GM is recalling everything that has any problem reported relating to it. It might be one or two incidents for a given model, but they are recalling many thousands just to be sure. It gives some people an opening to bash them at will. Go ahead, enjoy it while you can.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Thank you Kirstie
I doubt if GM would be making all these recalls if they weren't caught on the ignition recall. Now, they are being extra cautious because they simply cannot afford to get caught covering up another error.
Most of the problems are serious ones....I mean losing steering and bags not opening can lead to deaths. 60 recalls for 28 million cars in one year tells me there is a problem somewhere. It may be in engineering, it may be parts manufacturers, it may be assembly. I don't see large numbers of recalls from too many manufacturers - and these seem to be never ending. Of course there are going to be recalls, but, there comes a point when continual recalls mean something is not right. I think we are passed the limit I would accept....I wouldn't take the chance buying a GM car.....I don't want to have to park it for weeks while new parts are made.
If BMW had constant recalls I doubt if I would buy one until they got past the problems. I don't want to park a car I want to use when I want to use it. I don't have the patience or that much loyalty. It sounds like you trust GM no matter what, and you have made the recalls sound like a good thing. I think the recalls indicate a problem, and I am not there to support them no matter what they do.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That statement sounds like a classic case of turning a bad thing into a good thing. GM is being extra careful so is a safer company....the other car companies don't have as many recalls because they don't care.
That's your opinion and I certainly wouldn't attack anyone for expressing their own opinion.
You can only hope, because you likely have no idea how many small things exist. In GM's case an employee and few others made
a terrible decision scientifically because the ignition shutting off turns off the air bags. The car still can be steered but is harder to turn. Brakes still work.
As to the switchblade keyfob, I recall my friend's Jetta and Passat having that same system. I wonder if those in the VW/Audi are susceptible to bumping by a knee and moving enough to turn off the ON power.
I recall some Hondas having problems with customers complaining the airbags didn't go off. I see a current recall for Nissan about airbags. Maybe we need to start doing further research on other companies and their recalls or non recalls. Remember toyota resisted classifying the acceleration problems as other than short duration with the NHSTA therefore the interest in their true threat didn't come until more publicity.
Again I see GM's handling as a positive in a bad situation especially since there may have been deaths directly attributable to the ignition switches. As for for the others, many of the recalls are to check items and in some cases the recalls are for only a few vehicles within the set of vehicles identified because the recall involves certain options.
As for the bolt in the seat, you know more than I do on that one. I haven't researched to see just what is involved.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My neighbor is a shadetree mechanic supreme. He solicits and does work on many "premium" vehicles including Mercedes and BMWs. It's amazing what engineering exists in the BMWs that is problematic. Then the owners don't want to pay for it outside the 4-year service warranty, so they look for the shortcuts. Mercedes has quality engineering in their parts by comparison.
As one member of our discussion said recently, one car company has nurtured their image very well. I would just some car company's images to be not quite earned, but rather advertised. Lots of BMWs around here were bought or leased based on advertising for the image people perceived, but then by the end of the full service warranty those puppies have been traded for something else.
It's all in the image. And just as in politics a lot of smearing goes on because it's chic to smear certain people or groups. That's why I started pointing out GM has a whole different history than a foreign company does which moved into a niche with product US makers and their UAW workers as chains-around-their-necks didn't fulfill. GM has many changed products and I think it's only fair to consider those rather than stereotype them. However, the last few decades the evaluation is to look for one thing that a GM product didn't have that the other person's favorite vehicle did, and then that was the end of a fair consideration. I recall when Hondas had a 5-speed transmission and GM had 4-speed transmission. Lots of smearing because of the 4-speed (mine works very well in my leSabres, thank you for asking). But then GM came out 6-speed transmissions and all of a sudden Honda folks didn't think 6-speed was anything better than 5-speeds.
But to each his own opinion. I certainly wouldn't attack someone over it. I can disagree with it and make points, however. Further, I'm not here pointing out a list of recalls or service bulletins for other vehicles to downgrade their efforts. I'm sure no one wants GM & toyota to have problems especially of the type where deaths occur.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"It sounds like you trust GM no matter what, and you have made the recalls sound like a good thing."
Driver, recalls are never a "good" thing. Recalls can have a negative affect on corporate image if they are not handled properly. Recalls can be a nuisance to thousands of owners who have to bring their vehicles to the dealership for repairs. Recalls can give prospective car buyers second thoughts about buying a certain brand. Recalls are extremely costly as evidenced by GM's right off of almost 5 billion dollars for litigation as well as recall costs.
On the other hand, recalls can be a good thing. They correct possibly critical flaws in the engineering and production of vehicles and can result in saving lives.
GM is recalling anything and everything that can cause a problem in order to clean house, restore faith in its products and prove to the government it has learned its lesson about recalling vehicles. GM can potentially be fined billions by the government for hiding a flaw in their vehicles that they were fully aware of for over a decade. Thus, they are trying to prove to the government by these recalls that they don't deserve stiff financial penalties because of their recalls.
Would I buy a GM vehicle in the near future - NO! Would I buy a BMW or Mercedes or any other car made by a company recalling vehicles left and right or that concealed serious flaws for years - NO! It's not that I am ANTI GM, but rather concerned about buying a car from any company that has a history of recalls and/or concealment.
From the first day I bought cars in 1965, all I bought were GM cars - Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Chevrolet. It wasn't until 1987 that I ventured out to buy Mercedes and BMW's. You know I had terrible problems with 2-2008 535's and would not buy another BMW, no matter what. It would be the same if I had a series bad experiences with Mercedes.
I wish the best for GM, but until I could feel that they are building good cars again, I would not buy a GM product.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The size of GM compared to the US sales of some other companies means a lot more cars involved in a recall like this. Also, with many brands if they can keep the cars coming back to them for service they can handle "problems" with TSBs and silent recalls. I remember a coworker talking about his toyota in the 90s where it was in for warranty work for bad brakes on the rear and he went back to his car and they had the top of the engine off doing something to the engine as well. He was only told about the brakes which wore out fast, faster than the fronts. This was in the late 90s. Of course, with many people, they never knew that some flaw had been repaired besides the brakes, so they felt their car was just perfect--never had any problems.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Nobody prohibited GM do just what you described, they chose to ignore problems, blame and ridicule their customers when they reported issues, never volunteer to fix problems announced or not, and act only when there was no other choice. Yeah, those poor abused Honda or Toyota customers, Evil Japanese fixed their car and didn't tell them. GM way, i.e. not doing anything, is sooo much better.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Imid, let me start by saying I enjoy your posts, you put a lot of thought into your answers and you come up with some good info. But, just some comments at random;
That's like hearsay evidence. One persons comments don't matter too much. I have spoken to many people who once owned GM cars, now they own Asian or Euro cars and they will never go back. They weren't treated well in the past, and they have found there is a new game in town.
Some people buy a BMW because of the image it conveys. Maybe success, good taste, like refinement, appreciate superb engineering, etc. I buy one because I am never disappointed, I know the car will be fun to drive, I know it has been engineered to the max, I know it will retain it's value because people know they are good well made cars, I know it will be designed right and it will have the latest safety devices....no short cuts, no trying to get a car made for a certain price, and having to take short cuts to get to that price. I don't want to compromise on safety over a few bucks.
I have a pretty open mind about car brands. GM may have changed, I am sure they have, they have to, but, I can only go by recent performance. I am not going to be the guinee pig who tries one to see if they really have changed. I am not tied to any one brand, but, I know all my BMWs, 4 of them, performed perfectly. I think one of them had a recall done. Others may have been done during service but that is even better like Dino said. No down time.
It's easy to say you have learned from your mistakes and things will be better going forward. To me, words don't mean much....it's action and results. I hope GM does overcome these recalls, and the numbers are way higher in comparison to any other car company, but, I am not ready to buy yet. If I am 100% satisfied with my bmw, and it runs fine, why would I change for a car that has a questionable recall record?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree...I don't want to take the chance of my car being tied up with recalls. I heard one woman on the radio who had a Saturn in for a new ignition. It has been 6 weeks and the dealer gave her a loaner car, a Dodge. She said she likes the Dodge and will possibly buy one next time.
I agree with your comments and understand why you would not buy another bmw. We had a 1995 Volvo that had numerous problems, and I doubt I would buy another Volvo. Like I say, I am not overly loyal to any car company, but, I do demand certain standards, I know I will probably feel good about a bmw, Mercedes, Audi and possibly Jaguar. I just wouldn't take a chance on GM. I think they will get through this, but, I don't want to be taking a car in for recalls all the time. btw....what about when the recall time is up and they tell you you are on your own now........GM has done that before too.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My problem with GM is that they only build one car I would consider owning- the C7 Corvette. Nothing else GM cranks out interests me in the slightest. I've even recommended GM products to a few friends, but the chance of me(or my family) buying one is close to zero.
Having said that, the same is true of almost every other brand out there except for BMW, Jeep, Mazda, or Porsche...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Perfect! I couldn't have said it better. You are right about being forced to make repairs too....before that they wouldn't even pay for people killed because of a failure. Well, maybe this is the new GM....am I going to be the one to risk finding out if they really have changed, I don't think so.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250