@roadburner said:Having said that, the same is true of almost every other brand out there except for BMW, Jeep, Mazda, or Porsche...
Just curious. Why would you consider those brands but not say, Mercedes, Audi, (comparable to BMW) Nissan, Honda, (comparable to Mazda)? Hmm, nothing quite comparable to Jeep or Porche I suppose.
Sorry I cannot add to the anti-GM debate except to say that perhaps we should have more of an open mind with respect to GM products. Whether one buys a German marque or a domestic brand is a choice one makes to differentiate his social class. And of course one pays dearly for that distinction.
GM is the #1 domestic auto maker for a reason. Its products are beautifully styled, practical and reliable. (Yes reliable!) While its unfortunate that some deaths have been attributed to poor design or defective parts it not fair, however, to throw the baby out with the bath water.
In addressing these problems GM has taken a comprehensive approach to safety by recalling vehicles for every minor issue, regardless of cost, that now runs into the billions of dollars. By doing so it is trying to reassure the public that GM's products are safe and the company will stand behind its promises, implied or expressed. That is a responsible thing to do and the company should be applauded for its efforts rather be derided as some have chosen to do.
Got a letter in the mail the other day from Jeep dealer. Pretty much the usual thing, my GMC could be worth $$$$ towards trade in. Couldn't help but notice (because it was in very red background color) the box in upper right asking if I was tired of GM recalls. Timing of mailer could have been a tad better as it came the same day the newest Jeep recall was announced (for switchs that could be bumped, knocking it out of run position and disabling power steering,brakes and air-bags). Hope they didn't waste to much money on that one
@bwia said:
GM is the #1 domestic auto maker for a reason.
That's true, but the reason may be much more complex than you would like to admit. In Germany, VW is No. 1 domestic market company, in France it is Renault, in Japan it is Toyota, in Korea it is Hyundai, etc. I don't think any of those cases have much to do with true superiority of the product, it is rather a mix of incumbency, pricing, cost, government intervention (customs, regulations) and some national(istic) pride. This includes GM.
Strip GM from its fleet sales (rental and especially companies from industries compelled by Buy America clause) and how do their sales look then? Perhaps it's not fair to exclude those fleet sales completely, but it is fair to put asterisk on them, because factors going into fleet decisions are different than individual's - mostly it has to do with spending somebody else's money, also with government regulation.
I actually agree with you on something - their product is PROBABLY best it has ever been, in many cases it became comparable to its foreign competition (partially due Honda/Toyota lowering the bar, IMHO). All I can say to them keep going and you'll be rewarded. However, it is not reasonable to expect for people to change their minds on a dime, just because the product is better. This is a process. It was 30 years of continuous "effort" on GM part to squander so much of good will, the full recovery time is probably going to be equally long, if not longer. They have to win customers one at a time. BTW, I have similar problem with GM to Roadburner - there simply isn't much there that I find appealing to own. I don't think their cars are "crap" or anything, I simply don't like big, bulky vehicles with huge chrome grills. I wouldn't mind to get ATS, CTS, or Malibu, Impala as a rental, but I simply have no interest of putting a vehicle like that in my garage. Last GM vehicle that I was really (potentially) interested to own was Saab 9-3 Aero, version with hatch. I also like the idea of CTS, but it's a bit bulky and wagon was auto only, unless you got CTS-V, which was too expensive and would have real world gas mileage below 20 mpg.
I didn't get my BMW because of "badge", "prestige", or any of that stuff, could care less. I got it because it was the only RWD wagon/hatchback with manual transmission, six-cylinder engine and sport suspension offered at price that I was willing to pay. Subaru, which I used to own, was no longer interested in building a car like that. They had WRX, but I "graduated" to something more refined, but Legacy is no longer a product it used to be. Audi decided to can that line and sell a nicer Outback instead (Allroad). Benz withdrew completely, Saab went bankrupt. Volvo also missed on couple of points. None of domestics offered anything close, Japanese were not interested, either. It really was BMW or nothing. Today even they don't have manual with hatch anymore.
BTW, I find it really interesting that many GM aficionados always cry for "open mind" when it comes to their favorite brand, but in next sentence assign all evil to the competitions. Basically they want to have it both ways.
@bwia said:
Sorry I cannot add to the anti-GM debate except to say that perhaps we should have more of an open mind with respect to GM products. Whether one buys a German marque or a domestic brand is a choice one makes to differentiate his social class. And of course one pays dearly for that distinction.
GM is the #1 domestic auto maker for a reason. Its products are beautifully styled, practical and reliable. (Yes reliable!) While its unfortunate that some deaths have been attributed to poor design or defective parts it not fair, however, to throw the baby out with the bath water.
In addressing these problems GM has taken a comprehensive approach to safety by recalling vehicles for every minor issue, regardless of cost, that now runs into the billions of dollars. By doing so it is trying to reassure the public that GM's products are safe and the company will stand behind its promises, implied or expressed. That is a responsible thing to do and the company should be applauded for its efforts rather be derided as some have chosen to do.
C'est tout
Now @bwia, we cannot have that kind of attitude here! You'll be drummed out of the group for not jumping on the GM-basher bandwagon if you keep it up with these rational posts. For those who claim that GM makes nothing that interest them, you know what? Most manufacturers are like that for me. Chrysler? Nothing. Ford? Same. Toyota, Nissan, Mazda? Same. Hyundai-Kia? No way. M-B? Love them, but not willing to pay that kind of money. BMW? Love them too (or at least some) but the image and the ongoing and expensive service issues that are well-described here make it a headache I don't want to deal with. All manufacturers have their issues. Let's just recognize what is going on here with GM right now and move on.
@snakeweasel said:
More likely it's because when a plane crashes it leads to hundreds dead while a car accident rarely exceeds 4.
This is true. However, one plane goes down in Africa or Ukraine and it is news everywhere. How many people die WORLDWIDE in car crashes in same time between each of those plane crashes? What is a "density" of that, i.e. comparable incident rate vs. some metric that could express real probability?
Regarding hurricanes "killing" vs. "saving", I'm not convinced - it may be true, but a typical event has a radius of hundreds of miles. When it passes through, there is nobody on streets in vast areas for hours, vs. bustling traffic on a comparable day. It would be really interesting to see real statistics about that.
Psychologists discovered long time ago that humans are very selective in their fears, i.e. their responses are non-linear in nature. Something very rare (and unlikely) but terrible occupies our mind and triggers fears in completely disproportional manner to something that's much more frequent (and likely). Fearing a plane and having no second thoughts about a car ride is completely irrational, but this is the way we respond. Insurance companies discovered that long time ago, hence their businesses are so successful.
@dino001 said:. I don't think their cars are "crap" or anything, I simply don't like big, bulky vehicles with huge chrome grills.
Dino, you get down to the nitty gritty. European cars have a very different style...you can experience it with art (Mona lisa) and with food (Italian Food), movies (no Adam Sandler type movies) and in architecture etc. Not saying better, just different. Some might say more refined, more elegant, very sensible. Interiors are generally elegant but not overdone. There is a difference. I would find it hard to buy a big bulky chrome cladded car as well. Of course not all American cars are that way, but many of them are.
I didn't get my BMW because of "badge", "prestige", or any of that stuff, could care less.
The GM fans always throw this "Badge/prestige/image" thing out there.......it can only be because they have never driven a European car to know there is a difference. Once you experience the fun to drive feeling, the steering and handling, the right ergonomics, the engineering put into a European car you will know it isn't just an image thing. The car is engineered by people who love cars and know how they should feel....not produced by a corporate conglomerate with committees and bean counters trying to produce a product for a particdular price.
Can't say I understand the GM bashing based on recalls. Recalls don't bother me one iota. I bash GM because the large majority of their cars are just dismal. They offer absolutely nothing that interests me. The upcoming Colorado diesel is the only thing that comes to mind.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Exactly. Best example would be recent Cadillac commercial, which for me is a perfect repellant. It features, what I can only describe as "slave masters of the past" (some Egyptian Pharao on a carrier, some Indian Maharaja on an elephant and a French Queen from Louis XIV time in a coach) and then shot of happy people in an Escalade coming to some resort, having their bags picked up. If there was an award for most tasteless and disgusting commercial ever, this one would probably be a frontrunner for me. Buy a Cadillac, you'll join most horrible oppressors this planet has seen*.
*Slaves sold separately.
Essentially, GM is selling version of luxury that I find lacking of basic taste. Everything in your face to the point of grotesque.
I think the best way to judge a car company is to let buyers decide the issue by voting with their wallets. If buyers forsake a product, then that company has done something wrong; if the company prospers, it's hard to argue that there's a not a good reason for it---it might not be the best product, but something---marketing, price, image, whatever--keeps it going.
I still think anyone who really wants to get a good inside look at GM (and a great education regarding big business), should read Bob Lutz's book. He pretty mush spells out what we all think. That is, GM is a company that is way too focused on archaic processes and policies, while giving too much power to the accountants and lawyers. Can't argue that given those were some of the first firings done after the ignition debacle. The lawyers because they took the stance of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" and threatening their customer base with legal action of their own.
The accountants because in an effort to cut every last penny out of a part (ignition switch) they had their engineering team design, it caused harm and even death.
Lutz told a story about how what is now the "CUE" system in the Cadillac came to be. Someone came up with the brilliant idea that no one wanted to use buttons anymore....especially some of the older clients that Cadillac was so afraid to lose. The result? An ill conceived touch sensitive series of sliders (that turn out to be not so touch sensitive because of the cost cutting) that practically no one likes.
I do believe GM is trying to right itself, yet again. They do have some good (not great) products. The afore mentioned Cadillacs and Corvettes being just two. I like their big trucks and SUVs. Owned a Tahoe at one point, which was one of the best vehicles I ever owned. But, my Mother also owned one of the worst vehicles I've ever seen any car company produce (STS).
I don't know how many more chances the public should give them. Many times, GM doesn't even ask for forgiveness, when they most certainly should.
I know for a while there. some were calling them "Government Motors". I think it's time for the government to either hold their feet to the fire, or let the law suits fly, eating away at them until there's nothing left. Maybe the point will be made then....change or die.
> @bwia said: > In addressing these problems GM has taken a comprehensive approach to safety by recalling vehicles for every minor issue, regardless of cost, that now runs into the billions of dollars. By doing so it is trying to reassure the public that GM's products are safe and the company will stand behind its promises, implied or expressed. That is a responsible thing to do and the company should be applauded for its efforts rather be derided as some have chosen to do.
That's sort of like repairing a hole on the boat after you set sail. Sorry but I find it hard to believe that a companies products are safe when they are constantly being fixed due to safety issues.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well the company has no choice but that one. No one is ever going to make the perfect car right out of the box. I mean, other automakers have gotten away with things that are borderline scandalous....what about Subaru's defective head gaskets on their 2.5L engines---they just told owners to stuff it---and Porsche's defective IMS bearings that destroyed many a low mileage engine on the 996 and the Boxster. Precious few owners ever got compensated for those defects, unless under warranty.
@dino001 said: Buy a Cadillac, you'll join most horrible oppressors this planet has seen*.
*Slaves sold separately.
lol....I almost fell out of my chair with that remark. The Escalade is one car that has a little too much "bling" for my taste. I have to say, when I saw that ad I wondered What the h--- is going on!!!!!
@Mr_Shiftright said:what about Subaru's defective head gaskets on their 2.5L engines---they just told owners to stuff it---and Porsche's defective IMS bearings that destroyed many a low mileage engine
Mistakes do happen, but, those mistakes didn't cost lives over a $1 part, and then lead to a cover up. I believe it was on 60 Minutes that one former GM exec said, there is no way one person could order a change for a part and then not get the part number changed. It sounds logical to me...how does one person do all that in a huge corporation. They probably paid him a $million to take the blame.
@Mr_Shiftright said:
Well the company has no choice but that one. No one is ever going to make the perfect car right out of the box. I mean, other automakers have gotten away with things that are borderline scandalous....what about Subaru's defective head gaskets on their 2.5L engines---they just told owners to stuff it---and Porsche's defective IMS bearings that destroyed many a low mileage engine on the 996 and the Boxster. Precious few owners ever got compensated for those defects, unless under warranty.
GM and other car companies have tried to weasel out of paying for any number of defects. Off hand I can think of GM's Northstar head gasket issue, the 3.8L intake manifold gasket (that cost me $600). Then there were the sluging engines from Chrysler, Honda and Toyota of the early 2000s.
Can't think of too many from Ford since the exploding Pinto unless you include the exploding Firestone tires.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
So when Subaru sells engines that fail prematurely for years and years and takes no responsibility on behalf of the people who bought them, that's a "mistakes do happen" scenario? Maybe the reason is that if they did a bunch of execs at Fuji would literally have to fall on their swords.
This discussion is spiraling down to a point where I'm going to say something that gets me banned soon if I continue to engage with some of the bashers here, so I better shut myself up. Maybe the mods should change the title of the discussion to "GM Bashers R Us - Meet Here". This is ridiculous.
I don't know about Subaru's problems and attitudes. I heard something about Honda's transmissions, or Toyota's sludge. I bet every company has something of what they aren't proud. The difference is frequency. Also, it seems that those other brand fans are often ready to acknowledge those issues (perhaps underplay them somewhat), but every GM forum that I've seen invariably turns into "and look at Johny, he is ugly, too" arguments.
Seems like we had (or tried to start) a "known issues" discussion years ago. Caravan transmissions, CR-V AC compressors, Subaru head gaskets, New Beetle power windows, Town Car air suspensions. There's just about something for every car (or in the case of a Freelander, everything).
The thing that always bugs me about the Government Motors slur is that Chrysler is a "two time" loser in that regard, but takes no flack for their second bailout.
@dino001 said:
I think bashing here is mostly not because GM is recalling cars NOW, it is that that DID NOT recall them when they should have.
Dino, I don't think "bashing" is the right word to describe what is happening here on this forum regarding GM. Bashing is the word used by a couple of posters who think every time GM is mentioned in a "less-than-angelic" light, it is bashing! Obviously, bashing is not appropriate, in my opinion.
Yes, I agree the major issue with many people is the fact that GM withheld information about a known defect in a part which had caused deaths and injuries with no regard for the welfare of human beings. That is the KEY issue. Everything about what GM has done "since" that became known has been discussed, and discussed, and discussed.
I refuse to buy a Toyota, GM, or BMW product because of "history" with those companies. It is a personal choice - but it is not "bashing" a company if I so choose not to do business with those companies because of safety issues or the manner in which they do or "did" business. In Toyota's case, they did the same thing GM did - withheld vital information about defects. As for BMW, it was a personal experience with their products that caused me to eliminate them from my "buy" list.
Yes, the major issue with Toyota and GM is their business ethics - the manner in which they chose to do business by withholding information from the public.
I always thought that "bashing" took place when you purposely denounce a person, company or organization with "malice"!!!! There is no malice here. I am not filled with "malice" when I choose not to purchase a product. I don't buy the product because of a personal choice.
Would I buy another BMW or Toyota or GM product in the future (if I live long enough)? Of course I might - but it all depends upon what those manufacturers do now and in the future that will attract me to their products once again. In other words, "...prove to me that you are building a good, reliable and desirable product and I will consider buying your product."
Agreed, Mike. I adopted the word, because wanted to be "half way" with the defenders. As you know, I'm not a big fan of the brand for reasons present prior this recall wave. However, I think there is enough evidence of a criminal cover up within that company, which means that for significant portion of the market it lost whatever remained from good will and it has an uphill battle for even a basic trust. In other words, there may not be "malice" in GM criticism, but there is not much of good will, either. In essence, GM defenders demand benefit of the doubt, which GM critics are not willing to give - for obvious reasons.
@ab348 said:. Maybe the mods should change the title of the discussion to "GM Bashers R Us - Meet Here".
bash·ing
[bash-ing] Show IPA
noun
the act of beating, whipping, or thrashing: a series of unsolved bashings and robberies.
a decisive defeat: We gave the visiting team a good bashing.
a.
unprovoked physical assaults against members of a specified group: gay-bashing.
b.
verbal abuse, as of a group or a nation: feminist-bashing; China-bashing.
I have no idea how any comments made were "bashing". Several people stated they aren't interested in buying GM cars either because no models appeal to them, they don't like the way the major recalls were handled, they don't trust the company or the reliability.
To say that other manufacturers have also had recalls doesn't excuse GM from any of the reasons given for not buying a GM car. I may not buy a Chrysler product because there isn't anything that appeals to me....that's not bashing Chrysler. I wouldn't buy a Toyota because I don't like the way they drive, I wouldn't buy a Rover because of their poor reliability, I wouldn't buy a Taurus because it has a huge amount of metal and little tiny windows, and on and on.....not bashing. I wouldn't buy a 750 bmw because it is too big. I doubt I would buy a GM car because I am not that inspired by what I see, but I just don't have any trust at this time. Where does the bashing come in?
@dino001 said:
I didn't read Lutz's book. I hope he took some responsibility himself, as he was one of those spineless managers running the company at the time.
I've read a couple of Lutz's books. IMHO, Lutz is too self centered and egotistical to ever think he could make a mistake, must less admit to it.
I agree with most of you---- beating the dead horse does seem pointless after a while. The question becomes more about where does GM go from here, and will we see a change of attitude over time?
As for Lutz, I didn't read his book but I heard him interviewed a couple of times, and I was rather shocked how ignorant he is when he steps out of the car world. But then, I don't know why I would expect auto execs to be renaissance men and women.
I also try to keep in mind for myself that what we call "The Media" is a filtered medium---that is, both content and delivery are chosen for us---so mere repetition can often make a problem seem worse than it is, and lack of attention can help gloss over serious issues.
My (anti)favorite Lutz performance was an interview with Larry Kudlow, when on question why GM's management didn't do anything to break union stranglehold, he said something that UAW had two months (IIRC) of strike fund and GM did not. Wow.... Of course, Kudlow didn't ask "whose fault was that?" They knew exactly when the contract expires, they knew exactly what will happen at renewal, but they kept doing the same thing. This really showed me those guys still didn't understand what happened.
Many people blame UAW for the whole mess, which I think has a lot to answer to (if not them, much of the mess would not have happened). But it really was the execs, like Lutz and Wagoner and those before them, who accepted the job with nice pay and watched the company drown and had no spine to take a stand, unlike execs of many other heavy manufacturers did (Caterpillar, Cummins, et. al). This of course can be said about Chrysler and Ford execs, too - the latter woke up eventually, but it took an outsider to fix it. It was the culture.
@driver100 said:
Just curious. Why would you consider those brands but not say, Mercedes, Audi, (comparable to BMW) Nissan, Honda, (comparable to Mazda)? Hmm, nothing quite comparable to Jeep or Porsche I suppose.
Mercedes- The SLR is OK, nothing else gets me very excited.
Audi- I prefer RWD performance cars; I wouldn't turn down an R8, but I wouldn't pay for one.
Nissan: I like the 370Z and the Xterra; the GT-R is a fun video game. Everything else is boring and bizarre looking.
Honda- The Civic Si is OK, but I'd want a hatch...
I'd also take a new WRX STi...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'd take a little red wagon with a busted wheel if it was free!
I was thinking again (always a dangerous thing) about Mustangs and my mind wandered to the new 2.3L turbo model. Considering that a 4 banger is lighter than an 8 do you think the turbo will have significantly better handling?
I'm intrigued that a 4 cly. Can put out over 300hp. What's the hp of your MS3. I know your's has gone over 100k miles but I'd worry about longevity of such a highly stressed engine.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
ab448 and imid, after much soul searching, I have come to the conclusion that I unfairly and Inappropriately chastised you guys for for merely expressing opinions.
I know I was short-tempered - due to having just heard about my daughter's untimely death. I ask you both for you forgiveness.
@oldfarmer50 said:
I'm intrigued that a 4 cyl. Can put out over 300hp. What's the hp of your MS3. I know your's has gone over 100k miles but I'd worry about longevity of such a highly stressed engine.
The engine in my MS3 is a 2.3 liter that puts out 263 bhp stock. I added a Mazdaspeed cold air intake that added 24 bhp and recently installed a Hypertech tune so it is currently making over 300 bhp. It now has 141k on it and the last used oil analysis(at 135.5k) indicated that the motor is in excellent shape.
The turbo and valve timing actuator were replaced under warranty(at 27k and 47k respectively-both known issues on early build cars). I also replaced the EGR valve at 69k and the thermostat at 131k. I change the oil at 7.5k using Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30 and the coolant gets changed every two years.
What you need to remember is that at cruise and/or small throttle openings the engine is not operating under boost, so there is little to no additional stress placed on the engine. If you constantly operated the engine at full throttle you might well effect the longevity of the engine, although in my experience even the occasional track weekend doesn't hurt anything, The Mazda boards do contain stories of blown engines, but in virtually every case the engines have been significantly modified and or have received a "home brewed" ECU tune. I wouldn't lose any sleep over owning a 4 cyl. turbo- but then I've owned three: a 1984 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, a 1991 Volvo 740 Turbo, and my 2007 MS3.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
RB Jr. and I are now headed for Chicago to watch Tottenham Hotspur FC play the Chicago Fire tonight. Just for giggles I rented a V6 Challenger for the trip. so my impressions of the Dodge ponycar will soon follow...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
@roadburner said:
RB Jr. and I are now headed for Chicago to watch Tottenham Hotspur FC
play the Chicago Fire tonight. Just for giggles I rented a V6 Challenger for the trip. so my impressions of the Dodge ponycar will soon follow...
What does that Penstar 6 put out 290hp? Not too shabby but as I've said before it takes a lot to move all that weight. Looking forward to being proven wrong.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"...We had a 1995 Volvo that had numerous problems, and I doubt I would buy another Volvo."
I had a similar experience back in the 1970's. I bought a new Volvo GL sedan. From the day I brought it home, I had major problems with engine performance. It would constantly stall and run rough all the time.
Volvo had the car in their service department for 12 of the first 13 weeks I owned it. They had tech specialists from Sweden going over that car and could not solve the problem. They replaced the ignition, fuel injection system (IIRC it was fuel injected, not carburated, but I could be wrong), the fuel pumps, etc., but could not find the cause. They said that there were no reports of problems from other owners like I experienced, but we all know how much we can trust auto manufacturers to tell the truth about potential product defects. So they replaced the car and sent it back to Sweden for further examination. They never told what the problem was, but I experienced the same rough running and stalling on the replacement vehicle. So they bought the replacement vehicle back from me and that was the end of my respect for Volvo.
But that was 40 years ago. I assume they are producing great cars now and I obviously hold no grudges after all this time. But this is another example of car manufacturers withholding critical information from the car buying public.
The problems I had with my two 2008 BMW's were finally solved 3 years later - the problem was related to the hands free entry and starting option according to BMW. If it took them 3 years to figure out why a car "awakens" during a thunderstorm causing excessive battery drainage and discharge, just imagine problems with more critical vehicle functions. And remember, the same problem existed in the replacement vehicle. Strange, isn't it?
It's nice to see that we're talking about cars again in this thread.
However, I'd like to hijack it briefly to ask a question of all my friends here.
Do any of you have a sleep number bed? Do you like it?
Had some time to kill this afternoon so went to the mall for a look around. Stopped in the sleep number store and was given a thorough demo of their products.
After adjustments, the bed seemed pretty comfortable, but I'm still a bit skeptical on the idea of sending $3-5,000 on a bed, even one with a 25 year warranty.
I'm curious wha others think - there are lots of reviews on-line - both pro and con.
"After adjustments, the bed seemed pretty comfortable, but I'm still a bit skeptical on the idea of sending $3-5,000 on a bed, even one with a 25 year warranty."
Michael, I am even more skeptical about spending $3,000 to $5000 on a bed. I've slept on one for 7 days at my brother's house last year. I would compare the comfort of that sleep number bed to reclining on "cloud 9" for a cozy night's sleep.
Adjustments, of course, need to be made to arrive at the comfort settings that best meet the contour and curves of your body. However, determining those settings is a bit laborious at first, but once set, you don't have to worry about settings again.
I have since visited the Sleep Number Bed store locally in order to price one . There are several options and styles available, starting at $2700 and going up to $6000 for the super deluxe model with the ability to heat the bed .
I feel, after "test driving" the bed, that it's a super great Christmas gift for the millionaire who has everything. The average upscale mattress and box spring from Sealy or Serta or Beauty Rest runs between $800 and $1500. IMHO, unless you consider yourself "Sleepless in Seattle", the Sleep Number Bed is a bit too rich for my blood.
@Michaell said:
After adjustments, the bed seemed pretty comfortable, but I'm still a bit skeptical on the idea of sending $3-5,000 on a bed, even one with a 25 year warranty.
I'm curious wha others think - there are lots of reviews on-line - both pro and con.
I have no experience with the sleep number bed but I have heard that it is great for sleeping but lousy for sex.
Had a sleep number. The one I had had to be "reset" every month or so as the air bladders had some sort of slow leak. After several months of them sending out new bladders and me constantly disassembling/reassembling, I requested a refund as ot could never be fixed. They balked. Finally went all the way to someone at the exec level, who reluctantly refunded my money, less a pro-rated amount (even though it never worked right from the beginning) and had to pick up the shipping tab to their warehouse (they wouldn't let me return it to the store where I bought it).
Never again. Will ward off anyone who asks from doing business with them.
Spent one night with the sleep number, didn't think much of it one way or another.
I've extensive experience with Tempur-Pedic from house-sitting at friends. About two months worth. Really like the foam. Wound up buying the $400 version from Amazon. Going to leave it behind when we move next month.
@abacomike said:Volvo had the car in their service department for 12 of the first 13 weeks I owned it.
Our 95 Volvo would just stop running at anytime...on the highway, stopped a t a light, driving down the street. We took it to 3 different dealers, they couldn't fix it. Head office people looked at it. Couldn't fix it.
When my wife took the Volvo to one dealer she left it and went across the street and tried a Mercedes. She came home and said I don't care if it is a used Mercedes or even a 10 year old one....I'm getting a Mercedes next time. And she did. Turned the Volvo in a bit early (leased) and got an MB. World of difference.
It would take a certain set of circumstances to get me to buy another Volvo, though I have had a rental one that was great.
Hope I am not accused of bashing Volvo here.
Bwia: I can't help you with sleep numbers but I love memory foam! (sleep number was new and we didn't compare, though could be gimmicky...just thinking)
Had two '74 Volvos in the family and they were nothing but trouble, especially the rubber bellows for the fuel injection. Haven't really considered one since. So my grudge has lasted almost as long as @abacomike's has. Funny how that works.
When I was in high school & 1st year of university, Dad bought a new '73 Volvo 144 after a good experience with a '68 144. The '73 was the worst car we ever owned. It still had a manual choke and it would not idle properly unless you choked it a little bit. It was delivered with the front end wildly out of alignment and the front tires were used up in a couple of thousand miles. Would not start in the wet, attributed to electrical problems. Wiper switch fell out of the steering column. Radio failed. It was constantly in the shop. Too bad as it was a comfortable car when it was working.
@stever said:. So my grudge has lasted almost as long as @abacomike's has. Funny how that works.
In those days they advertised the average Volvo lasted 20 years in Sweden. Even back then I always thought, of course they do....small country where people don't drive too far, and people in Sweden don't trade in their cars every few years, they keep getting them fixed and keep driving the same car, no wonder they keep them for 40 years.
But, as you say, funny how that grudge works. From the reviews I have seen Volvo makes a pretty good car, but, they got me once, I just don't feel like taking the chance again.
It's really irrational in my case since I like wagons and boxes. My sister was out of the house for the '74s and she wound up with a prototypical "square" Volvo wagon for most of the 90s and had great luck with it.
Will do some wingman shopping this week while on vacation. My SILs odyssey but the dust again (a 1999 with 180k on it). I think it is the tranny. So they had to leave it at the mechanics and take her SOs old sentra to the beach.
We talked, and she finally accepts that it is time to let it go. So I told her we could go out one morning to check out a CRV and subarus. A small CUV seems to be the best option for her.
Comments
@roadburner
The C7 is most definitely at the top of the short list of GM cars I'd own. I'd also add the Buick Regal & Chevrolet Cruze Diesel to that list.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Just curious. Why would you consider those brands but not say, Mercedes, Audi, (comparable to BMW) Nissan, Honda, (comparable to Mazda)? Hmm, nothing quite comparable to Jeep or Porche I suppose.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sorry I cannot add to the anti-GM debate except to say that perhaps we should have more of an open mind with respect to GM products. Whether one buys a German marque or a domestic brand is a choice one makes to differentiate his social class. And of course one pays dearly for that distinction.
GM is the #1 domestic auto maker for a reason. Its products are beautifully styled, practical and reliable. (Yes reliable!) While its unfortunate that some deaths have been attributed to poor design or defective parts it not fair, however, to throw the baby out with the bath water.
In addressing these problems GM has taken a comprehensive approach to safety by recalling vehicles for every minor issue, regardless of cost, that now runs into the billions of dollars. By doing so it is trying to reassure the public that GM's products are safe and the company will stand behind its promises, implied or expressed. That is a responsible thing to do and the company should be applauded for its efforts rather be derided as some have chosen to do.
C'est tout
Got a letter in the mail the other day from Jeep dealer. Pretty much the usual thing, my GMC could be worth $$$$ towards trade in. Couldn't help but notice (because it was in very red background color) the box in upper right asking if I was tired of GM recalls. Timing of mailer could have been a tad better as it came the same day the newest Jeep recall was announced (for switchs that could be bumped, knocking it out of run position and disabling power steering,brakes and air-bags). Hope they didn't waste to much money on that one
That's true, but the reason may be much more complex than you would like to admit. In Germany, VW is No. 1 domestic market company, in France it is Renault, in Japan it is Toyota, in Korea it is Hyundai, etc. I don't think any of those cases have much to do with true superiority of the product, it is rather a mix of incumbency, pricing, cost, government intervention (customs, regulations) and some national(istic) pride. This includes GM.
Strip GM from its fleet sales (rental and especially companies from industries compelled by Buy America clause) and how do their sales look then? Perhaps it's not fair to exclude those fleet sales completely, but it is fair to put asterisk on them, because factors going into fleet decisions are different than individual's - mostly it has to do with spending somebody else's money, also with government regulation.
I actually agree with you on something - their product is PROBABLY best it has ever been, in many cases it became comparable to its foreign competition (partially due Honda/Toyota lowering the bar, IMHO). All I can say to them keep going and you'll be rewarded. However, it is not reasonable to expect for people to change their minds on a dime, just because the product is better. This is a process. It was 30 years of continuous "effort" on GM part to squander so much of good will, the full recovery time is probably going to be equally long, if not longer. They have to win customers one at a time. BTW, I have similar problem with GM to Roadburner - there simply isn't much there that I find appealing to own. I don't think their cars are "crap" or anything, I simply don't like big, bulky vehicles with huge chrome grills. I wouldn't mind to get ATS, CTS, or Malibu, Impala as a rental, but I simply have no interest of putting a vehicle like that in my garage. Last GM vehicle that I was really (potentially) interested to own was Saab 9-3 Aero, version with hatch. I also like the idea of CTS, but it's a bit bulky and wagon was auto only, unless you got CTS-V, which was too expensive and would have real world gas mileage below 20 mpg.
I didn't get my BMW because of "badge", "prestige", or any of that stuff, could care less. I got it because it was the only RWD wagon/hatchback with manual transmission, six-cylinder engine and sport suspension offered at price that I was willing to pay. Subaru, which I used to own, was no longer interested in building a car like that. They had WRX, but I "graduated" to something more refined, but Legacy is no longer a product it used to be. Audi decided to can that line and sell a nicer Outback instead (Allroad). Benz withdrew completely, Saab went bankrupt. Volvo also missed on couple of points. None of domestics offered anything close, Japanese were not interested, either. It really was BMW or nothing. Today even they don't have manual with hatch anymore.
BTW, I find it really interesting that many GM aficionados always cry for "open mind" when it comes to their favorite brand, but in next sentence assign all evil to the competitions. Basically they want to have it both ways.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Now @bwia, we cannot have that kind of attitude here! You'll be drummed out of the group for not jumping on the GM-basher bandwagon if you keep it up with these rational posts. For those who claim that GM makes nothing that interest them, you know what? Most manufacturers are like that for me. Chrysler? Nothing. Ford? Same. Toyota, Nissan, Mazda? Same. Hyundai-Kia? No way. M-B? Love them, but not willing to pay that kind of money. BMW? Love them too (or at least some) but the image and the ongoing and expensive service issues that are well-described here make it a headache I don't want to deal with. All manufacturers have their issues. Let's just recognize what is going on here with GM right now and move on.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
This is true. However, one plane goes down in Africa or Ukraine and it is news everywhere. How many people die WORLDWIDE in car crashes in same time between each of those plane crashes? What is a "density" of that, i.e. comparable incident rate vs. some metric that could express real probability?
Regarding hurricanes "killing" vs. "saving", I'm not convinced - it may be true, but a typical event has a radius of hundreds of miles. When it passes through, there is nobody on streets in vast areas for hours, vs. bustling traffic on a comparable day. It would be really interesting to see real statistics about that.
Psychologists discovered long time ago that humans are very selective in their fears, i.e. their responses are non-linear in nature. Something very rare (and unlikely) but terrible occupies our mind and triggers fears in completely disproportional manner to something that's much more frequent (and likely). Fearing a plane and having no second thoughts about a car ride is completely irrational, but this is the way we respond. Insurance companies discovered that long time ago, hence their businesses are so successful.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Dino, you get down to the nitty gritty. European cars have a very different style...you can experience it with art (Mona lisa) and with food (Italian Food), movies (no Adam Sandler type movies) and in architecture etc. Not saying better, just different. Some might say more refined, more elegant, very sensible. Interiors are generally elegant but not overdone. There is a difference. I would find it hard to buy a big bulky chrome cladded car as well. Of course not all American cars are that way, but many of them are.
The GM fans always throw this "Badge/prestige/image" thing out there.......it can only be because they have never driven a European car to know there is a difference. Once you experience the fun to drive feeling, the steering and handling, the right ergonomics, the engineering put into a European car you will know it isn't just an image thing. The car is engineered by people who love cars and know how they should feel....not produced by a corporate conglomerate with committees and bean counters trying to produce a product for a particdular price.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Can't say I understand the GM bashing based on recalls. Recalls don't bother me one iota. I bash GM because the large majority of their cars are just dismal. They offer absolutely nothing that interests me. The upcoming Colorado diesel is the only thing that comes to mind.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think bashing here is mostly not because GM is recalling cars NOW, it is that that DID NOT recall them when they should have.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Exactly. Best example would be recent Cadillac commercial, which for me is a perfect repellant. It features, what I can only describe as "slave masters of the past" (some Egyptian Pharao on a carrier, some Indian Maharaja on an elephant and a French Queen from Louis XIV time in a coach) and then shot of happy people in an Escalade coming to some resort, having their bags picked up. If there was an award for most tasteless and disgusting commercial ever, this one would probably be a frontrunner for me. Buy a Cadillac, you'll join most horrible oppressors this planet has seen*.
*Slaves sold separately.
Essentially, GM is selling version of luxury that I find lacking of basic taste. Everything in your face to the point of grotesque.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I think the best way to judge a car company is to let buyers decide the issue by voting with their wallets. If buyers forsake a product, then that company has done something wrong; if the company prospers, it's hard to argue that there's a not a good reason for it---it might not be the best product, but something---marketing, price, image, whatever--keeps it going.
My GM experiences have been documented here.
I still think anyone who really wants to get a good inside look at GM (and a great education regarding big business), should read Bob Lutz's book. He pretty mush spells out what we all think. That is, GM is a company that is way too focused on archaic processes and policies, while giving too much power to the accountants and lawyers. Can't argue that given those were some of the first firings done after the ignition debacle. The lawyers because they took the stance of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" and threatening their customer base with legal action of their own.
The accountants because in an effort to cut every last penny out of a part (ignition switch) they had their engineering team design, it caused harm and even death.
Lutz told a story about how what is now the "CUE" system in the Cadillac came to be. Someone came up with the brilliant idea that no one wanted to use buttons anymore....especially some of the older clients that Cadillac was so afraid to lose. The result? An ill conceived touch sensitive series of sliders (that turn out to be not so touch sensitive because of the cost cutting) that practically no one likes.
I do believe GM is trying to right itself, yet again. They do have some good (not great) products. The afore mentioned Cadillacs and Corvettes being just two. I like their big trucks and SUVs. Owned a Tahoe at one point, which was one of the best vehicles I ever owned. But, my Mother also owned one of the worst vehicles I've ever seen any car company produce (STS).
I don't know how many more chances the public should give them. Many times, GM doesn't even ask for forgiveness, when they most certainly should.
I know for a while there. some were calling them "Government Motors". I think it's time for the government to either hold their feet to the fire, or let the law suits fly, eating away at them until there's nothing left. Maybe the point will be made then....change or die.
I didn't read Lutz's book. I hope he took some responsibility himself, as he was one of those spineless managers running the company at the time.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
> In addressing these problems GM has taken a comprehensive approach to safety by recalling vehicles for every minor issue, regardless of cost, that now runs into the billions of dollars. By doing so it is trying to reassure the public that GM's products are safe and the company will stand behind its promises, implied or expressed. That is a responsible thing to do and the company should be applauded for its efforts rather be derided as some have chosen to do.
That's sort of like repairing a hole on the boat after you set sail. Sorry but I find it hard to believe that a companies products are safe when they are constantly being fixed due to safety issues.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well the company has no choice but that one. No one is ever going to make the perfect car right out of the box. I mean, other automakers have gotten away with things that are borderline scandalous....what about Subaru's defective head gaskets on their 2.5L engines---they just told owners to stuff it---and Porsche's defective IMS bearings that destroyed many a low mileage engine on the 996 and the Boxster. Precious few owners ever got compensated for those defects, unless under warranty.
*Slaves sold separately.
lol....I almost fell out of my chair with that remark. The Escalade is one car that has a little too much "bling" for my taste. I have to say, when I saw that ad I wondered What the h--- is going on!!!!!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mistakes do happen, but, those mistakes didn't cost lives over a $1 part, and then lead to a cover up. I believe it was on 60 Minutes that one former GM exec said, there is no way one person could order a change for a part and then not get the part number changed. It sounds logical to me...how does one person do all that in a huge corporation. They probably paid him a $million to take the blame.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GM and other car companies have tried to weasel out of paying for any number of defects. Off hand I can think of GM's Northstar head gasket issue, the 3.8L intake manifold gasket (that cost me $600). Then there were the sluging engines from Chrysler, Honda and Toyota of the early 2000s.
Can't think of too many from Ford since the exploding Pinto unless you include the exploding Firestone tires.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
So when Subaru sells engines that fail prematurely for years and years and takes no responsibility on behalf of the people who bought them, that's a "mistakes do happen" scenario? Maybe the reason is that if they did a bunch of execs at Fuji would literally have to fall on their swords.
This discussion is spiraling down to a point where I'm going to say something that gets me banned soon if I continue to engage with some of the bashers here, so I better shut myself up. Maybe the mods should change the title of the discussion to "GM Bashers R Us - Meet Here". This is ridiculous.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I don't know about Subaru's problems and attitudes. I heard something about Honda's transmissions, or Toyota's sludge. I bet every company has something of what they aren't proud. The difference is frequency. Also, it seems that those other brand fans are often ready to acknowledge those issues (perhaps underplay them somewhat), but every GM forum that I've seen invariably turns into "and look at Johny, he is ugly, too" arguments.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Seems like we had (or tried to start) a "known issues" discussion years ago. Caravan transmissions, CR-V AC compressors, Subaru head gaskets, New Beetle power windows, Town Car air suspensions. There's just about something for every car (or in the case of a Freelander, everything).
The thing that always bugs me about the Government Motors slur is that Chrysler is a "two time" loser in that regard, but takes no flack for their second bailout.
Dino, I don't think "bashing" is the right word to describe what is happening here on this forum regarding GM. Bashing is the word used by a couple of posters who think every time GM is mentioned in a "less-than-angelic" light, it is bashing! Obviously, bashing is not appropriate, in my opinion.
Yes, I agree the major issue with many people is the fact that GM withheld information about a known defect in a part which had caused deaths and injuries with no regard for the welfare of human beings. That is the KEY issue. Everything about what GM has done "since" that became known has been discussed, and discussed, and discussed.
I refuse to buy a Toyota, GM, or BMW product because of "history" with those companies. It is a personal choice - but it is not "bashing" a company if I so choose not to do business with those companies because of safety issues or the manner in which they do or "did" business. In Toyota's case, they did the same thing GM did - withheld vital information about defects. As for BMW, it was a personal experience with their products that caused me to eliminate them from my "buy" list.
Yes, the major issue with Toyota and GM is their business ethics - the manner in which they chose to do business by withholding information from the public.
I always thought that "bashing" took place when you purposely denounce a person, company or organization with "malice"!!!! There is no malice here. I am not filled with "malice" when I choose not to purchase a product. I don't buy the product because of a personal choice.
Would I buy another BMW or Toyota or GM product in the future (if I live long enough)? Of course I might - but it all depends upon what those manufacturers do now and in the future that will attract me to their products once again. In other words, "...prove to me that you are building a good, reliable and desirable product and I will consider buying your product."
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Agreed, Mike. I adopted the word, because wanted to be "half way" with the defenders. As you know, I'm not a big fan of the brand for reasons present prior this recall wave. However, I think there is enough evidence of a criminal cover up within that company, which means that for significant portion of the market it lost whatever remained from good will and it has an uphill battle for even a basic trust. In other words, there may not be "malice" in GM criticism, but there is not much of good will, either. In essence, GM defenders demand benefit of the doubt, which GM critics are not willing to give - for obvious reasons.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
bash·ing
[bash-ing] Show IPA
noun
the act of beating, whipping, or thrashing: a series of unsolved bashings and robberies.
a decisive defeat: We gave the visiting team a good bashing.
a.
unprovoked physical assaults against members of a specified group: gay-bashing.
b.
verbal abuse, as of a group or a nation: feminist-bashing; China-bashing.
I have no idea how any comments made were "bashing". Several people stated they aren't interested in buying GM cars either because no models appeal to them, they don't like the way the major recalls were handled, they don't trust the company or the reliability.
To say that other manufacturers have also had recalls doesn't excuse GM from any of the reasons given for not buying a GM car. I may not buy a Chrysler product because there isn't anything that appeals to me....that's not bashing Chrysler. I wouldn't buy a Toyota because I don't like the way they drive, I wouldn't buy a Rover because of their poor reliability, I wouldn't buy a Taurus because it has a huge amount of metal and little tiny windows, and on and on.....not bashing. I wouldn't buy a 750 bmw because it is too big. I doubt I would buy a GM car because I am not that inspired by what I see, but I just don't have any trust at this time. Where does the bashing come in?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I've read a couple of Lutz's books. IMHO, Lutz is too self centered and egotistical to ever think he could make a mistake, must less admit to it.
I agree with most of you---- beating the dead horse does seem pointless after a while. The question becomes more about where does GM go from here, and will we see a change of attitude over time?
As for Lutz, I didn't read his book but I heard him interviewed a couple of times, and I was rather shocked how ignorant he is when he steps out of the car world. But then, I don't know why I would expect auto execs to be renaissance men and women.
I also try to keep in mind for myself that what we call "The Media" is a filtered medium---that is, both content and delivery are chosen for us---so mere repetition can often make a problem seem worse than it is, and lack of attention can help gloss over serious issues.
My (anti)favorite Lutz performance was an interview with Larry Kudlow, when on question why GM's management didn't do anything to break union stranglehold, he said something that UAW had two months (IIRC) of strike fund and GM did not. Wow.... Of course, Kudlow didn't ask "whose fault was that?" They knew exactly when the contract expires, they knew exactly what will happen at renewal, but they kept doing the same thing. This really showed me those guys still didn't understand what happened.
Many people blame UAW for the whole mess, which I think has a lot to answer to (if not them, much of the mess would not have happened). But it really was the execs, like Lutz and Wagoner and those before them, who accepted the job with nice pay and watched the company drown and had no spine to take a stand, unlike execs of many other heavy manufacturers did (Caterpillar, Cummins, et. al). This of course can be said about Chrysler and Ford execs, too - the latter woke up eventually, but it took an outsider to fix it. It was the culture.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mercedes- The SLR is OK, nothing else gets me very excited.
Audi- I prefer RWD performance cars; I wouldn't turn down an R8, but I wouldn't pay for one.
Nissan: I like the 370Z and the Xterra; the GT-R is a fun video game. Everything else is boring and bizarre looking.
Honda- The Civic Si is OK, but I'd want a hatch...
I'd also take a new WRX STi...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'd take a little red wagon with a busted wheel if it was free!
I was thinking again (always a dangerous thing) about Mustangs and my mind wandered to the new 2.3L turbo model. Considering that a 4 banger is lighter than an 8 do you think the turbo will have significantly better handling?
I'm intrigued that a 4 cly. Can put out over 300hp. What's the hp of your MS3. I know your's has gone over 100k miles but I'd worry about longevity of such a highly stressed engine.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
ab448 and imid, after much soul searching, I have come to the conclusion that I unfairly and Inappropriately chastised you guys for for merely expressing opinions.
I know I was short-tempered - due to having just heard about my daughter's untimely death. I ask you both for you forgiveness.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The engine in my MS3 is a 2.3 liter that puts out 263 bhp stock. I added a Mazdaspeed cold air intake that added 24 bhp and recently installed a Hypertech tune so it is currently making over 300 bhp. It now has 141k on it and the last used oil analysis(at 135.5k) indicated that the motor is in excellent shape.
The turbo and valve timing actuator were replaced under warranty(at 27k and 47k respectively-both known issues on early build cars). I also replaced the EGR valve at 69k and the thermostat at 131k. I change the oil at 7.5k using Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30 and the coolant gets changed every two years.
What you need to remember is that at cruise and/or small throttle openings the engine is not operating under boost, so there is little to no additional stress placed on the engine. If you constantly operated the engine at full throttle you might well effect the longevity of the engine, although in my experience even the occasional track weekend doesn't hurt anything, The Mazda boards do contain stories of blown engines, but in virtually every case the engines have been significantly modified and or have received a "home brewed" ECU tune. I wouldn't lose any sleep over owning a 4 cyl. turbo- but then I've owned three: a 1984 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, a 1991 Volvo 740 Turbo, and my 2007 MS3.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
You are forgiven. Hugs!
RB Jr. and I are now headed for Chicago to watch Tottenham Hotspur FC play the Chicago Fire tonight. Just for giggles I rented a V6 Challenger for the trip. so my impressions of the Dodge ponycar will soon follow...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Should be interesting...it would be nice to hear your impressions of a 2015 707 hp Hellcat though.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
play the Chicago Fire tonight. Just for giggles I rented a V6 Challenger for the trip. so my impressions of the Dodge ponycar will soon follow...
What does that Penstar 6 put out 290hp? Not too shabby but as I've said before it takes a lot to move all that weight. Looking forward to being proven wrong.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
No problem, all water under the bridge.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
"...We had a 1995 Volvo that had numerous problems, and I doubt I would buy another Volvo."
I had a similar experience back in the 1970's. I bought a new Volvo GL sedan. From the day I brought it home, I had major problems with engine performance. It would constantly stall and run rough all the time.
Volvo had the car in their service department for 12 of the first 13 weeks I owned it. They had tech specialists from Sweden going over that car and could not solve the problem. They replaced the ignition, fuel injection system (IIRC it was fuel injected, not carburated, but I could be wrong), the fuel pumps, etc., but could not find the cause. They said that there were no reports of problems from other owners like I experienced, but we all know how much we can trust auto manufacturers to tell the truth about potential product defects. So they replaced the car and sent it back to Sweden for further examination. They never told what the problem was, but I experienced the same rough running and stalling on the replacement vehicle. So they bought the replacement vehicle back from me and that was the end of my respect for Volvo.
But that was 40 years ago. I assume they are producing great cars now and I obviously hold no grudges after all this time. But this is another example of car manufacturers withholding critical information from the car buying public.
The problems I had with my two 2008 BMW's were finally solved 3 years later - the problem was related to the hands free entry and starting option according to BMW. If it took them 3 years to figure out why a car "awakens" during a thunderstorm causing excessive battery drainage and discharge, just imagine problems with more critical vehicle functions. And remember, the same problem existed in the replacement vehicle. Strange, isn't it?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
It's nice to see that we're talking about cars again in this thread.
However, I'd like to hijack it briefly to ask a question of all my friends here.
Do any of you have a sleep number bed? Do you like it?
Had some time to kill this afternoon so went to the mall for a look around. Stopped in the sleep number store and was given a thorough demo of their products.
After adjustments, the bed seemed pretty comfortable, but I'm still a bit skeptical on the idea of sending $3-5,000 on a bed, even one with a 25 year warranty.
I'm curious wha others think - there are lots of reviews on-line - both pro and con.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
"After adjustments, the bed seemed pretty comfortable, but I'm still a bit skeptical on the idea of sending $3-5,000 on a bed, even one with a 25 year warranty."
Michael, I am even more skeptical about spending $3,000 to $5000 on a bed. I've slept on one for 7 days at my brother's house last year. I would compare the comfort of that sleep number bed to reclining on "cloud 9" for a cozy night's sleep.
Adjustments, of course, need to be made to arrive at the comfort settings that best meet the contour and curves of your body. However, determining those settings is a bit laborious at first, but once set, you don't have to worry about settings again.
I have since visited the Sleep Number Bed store locally in order to price one . There are several options and styles available, starting at $2700 and going up to $6000 for the super deluxe model with the ability to heat the bed .
I feel, after "test driving" the bed, that it's a super great Christmas gift for the millionaire who has everything. The average upscale mattress and box spring from Sealy or Serta or Beauty Rest runs between $800 and $1500. IMHO, unless you consider yourself "Sleepless in Seattle", the Sleep Number Bed is a bit too rich for my blood.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I have no experience with the sleep number bed but I have heard that it is great for sleeping but lousy for sex.
Had a sleep number. The one I had had to be "reset" every month or so as the air bladders had some sort of slow leak. After several months of them sending out new bladders and me constantly disassembling/reassembling, I requested a refund as ot could never be fixed. They balked. Finally went all the way to someone at the exec level, who reluctantly refunded my money, less a pro-rated amount (even though it never worked right from the beginning) and had to pick up the shipping tab to their warehouse (they wouldn't let me return it to the store where I bought it).
Never again. Will ward off anyone who asks from doing business with them.
For that money, get a nice Temperpedic.
Spent one night with the sleep number, didn't think much of it one way or another.
I've extensive experience with Tempur-Pedic from house-sitting at friends. About two months worth. Really like the foam. Wound up buying the $400 version from Amazon. Going to leave it behind when we move next month.
And buy another one.
Our 95 Volvo would just stop running at anytime...on the highway, stopped a t a light, driving down the street. We took it to 3 different dealers, they couldn't fix it. Head office people looked at it. Couldn't fix it.
When my wife took the Volvo to one dealer she left it and went across the street and tried a Mercedes. She came home and said I don't care if it is a used Mercedes or even a 10 year old one....I'm getting a Mercedes next time. And she did. Turned the Volvo in a bit early (leased) and got an MB. World of difference.
It would take a certain set of circumstances to get me to buy another Volvo, though I have had a rental one that was great.
Hope I am not accused of bashing Volvo here.
Bwia: I can't help you with sleep numbers but I love memory foam! (sleep number was new and we didn't compare, though could be gimmicky...just thinking)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Had two '74 Volvos in the family and they were nothing but trouble, especially the rubber bellows for the fuel injection. Haven't really considered one since. So my grudge has lasted almost as long as @abacomike's has. Funny how that works.
When I was in high school & 1st year of university, Dad bought a new '73 Volvo 144 after a good experience with a '68 144. The '73 was the worst car we ever owned. It still had a manual choke and it would not idle properly unless you choked it a little bit. It was delivered with the front end wildly out of alignment and the front tires were used up in a couple of thousand miles. Would not start in the wet, attributed to electrical problems. Wiper switch fell out of the steering column. Radio failed. It was constantly in the shop. Too bad as it was a comfortable car when it was working.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
In those days they advertised the average Volvo lasted 20 years in Sweden. Even back then I always thought, of course they do....small country where people don't drive too far, and people in Sweden don't trade in their cars every few years, they keep getting them fixed and keep driving the same car, no wonder they keep them for 40 years.
But, as you say, funny how that grudge works. From the reviews I have seen Volvo makes a pretty good car, but, they got me once, I just don't feel like taking the chance again.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It's really irrational in my case since I like wagons and boxes. My sister was out of the house for the '74s and she wound up with a prototypical "square" Volvo wagon for most of the 90s and had great luck with it.
My Volvo is getting a complex reading this. I had to take the iPad away from it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Will do some wingman shopping this week while on vacation. My SILs odyssey but the dust again (a 1999 with 180k on it). I think it is the tranny. So they had to leave it at the mechanics and take her SOs old sentra to the beach.
We talked, and she finally accepts that it is time to let it go. So I told her we could go out one morning to check out a CRV and subarus. A small CUV seems to be the best option for her.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.