Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

jmonroe1

abacomike said:

graphicguy said:

@abacomike ....thank you so much. You’re kind and your knowledge is welcomed. You are also in my prayer list!

Thanks GG. Nice to know that!🤓😜🤪

@Mike, you are a great guy to include your poster buddies on your prayer list. You’d be an even greater guy, once this COVID thing is past us, if you’d put me at the top of your “invite list” for an all expense paid visit to Sunny South Florida.😘

jmonroe

driver100

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

We all know that GG didn’t spill anything but it only takes one time to screw something up. The manufacturer knows he didn’t build the car with that problem and the dealer isn’t going to admit they did it, so we are in a he-said they-said dilemma which the customer will almost always lose. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

suydam

graphicguy said:

Partially, I blame myself. Some dealers I just throw business to because I get good deals. That doesn’t make them good dealers, as I can’t seem to get through my thick skull.

Maybe it’s my expectations. Still, as @roadburner mentioned, KIA is not doing themselves any favors by irritating their customers. They don’t seem to care. The dealership group I’ve had the most issues with doesn’t seem to care about repeat business either.

While I didn’t pay $55K for the car, the expectations in that price range are different in that price range.

Eventually we’ll end up in front of the arbitrator. I’m OK with that. I now have more time to devote to the issues. Just irritating to me.

I have learned over the years that the most important part of a dealership is the service department. Buying the car is a one-time experience, but a good service department is so important over the long run of owning or leasing a car. A poor service department can make owning a really nice car a miserable experience.

houdini1

jmonroe1 said:

imidazol97 said:

@jmonroe

Can you briefly summarize what was your crime against Hyyndai/Kia?

You forgot? How could you? I moaned about it for weeks.☹️

OK, briefly. They found a “discrepancy with my oil change log sheet”. Said the mileage shown for an oil change I did after they did warranty work for a seat belt light was lower than when they did that work. I showed them where their bookkeeping was wrong with a few service visits but that made no difference to them.

I was left with killing a handful of sales because of that but the nail in the coffin was when my uncle told them to pound sand on a car they were getting in for him. I then got a call from them because of that but that was my turn to tell them to go pound sand. I guess it runs in the family.

If this isn’t enough detail, ask @driver100, he likes to remind me of how I screwed up all the time. 😎

jmonroe

More than a handful of sales as I have also ruined a few on your behalf.

abacomike

jmonroe1 said:

abacomike said:

graphicguy said:

@abacomike ....thank you so much. You’re kind and your knowledge is welcomed. You are also in my prayer list!

Thanks GG. Nice to know that!🤓😜🤪

@Mike, you are a great guy to include your poster buddies on your prayer list. You’d be an even greater guy, once this COVID thing is past us, if you’d put me at the top of your “invite list” for an all expense paid visit to Sunny South Florida.😘

jmonroe

Jmonroe, you have always been on my “list” - as for the all-expense-paid-visit to sunny Florida, that’s a different list! 🤪😜🤓

jmonroe1

houdini1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

imidazol97 said:

@jmonroe

Can you briefly summarize what was your crime against Hyyndai/Kia?

You forgot? How could you? I moaned about it for weeks.☹️

OK, briefly. They found a “discrepancy with my oil change log sheet”. Said the mileage shown for an oil change I did after they did warranty work for a seat belt light was lower than when they did that work. I showed them where their bookkeeping was wrong with a few service visits but that made no difference to them.

I was left with killing a handful of sales because of that but the nail in the coffin was when my uncle told them to pound sand on a car they were getting in for him. I then got a call from them because of that but that was my turn to tell them to go pound sand. I guess it runs in the family.

If this isn’t enough detail, ask @driver100, he likes to remind me of how I screwed up all the time. 😎

jmonroe

More than a handful of sales as I have also ruined a few on your behalf.

Thanks, I didn’t know that. We’ll have to go celebrate that some day.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

abacomike said:

jmonroe1 said:

abacomike said:

graphicguy said:

@abacomike ....thank you so much. You’re kind and your knowledge is welcomed. You are also in my prayer list!

Thanks GG. Nice to know that!🤓😜🤪

@Mike, you are a great guy to include your poster buddies on your prayer list. You’d be an even greater guy, once this COVID thing is past us, if you’d put me at the top of your “invite list” for an all expense paid visit to Sunny South Florida.😘

jmonroe

Jmonroe, you have always been on my “list” - as for the all-expense-paid-visit to sunny Florida, that’s a different list! 🤪😜🤓

I was afraid of that. If it rhymes with “it”, I’ve been on a few of those in my days.☹️

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

We all know that GG didn’t spill anything but it only takes one time to screw something up. The manufacturer knows he didn’t build the car with that problem and the dealer isn’t going to admit they did it, so we are in a he-said they-said dilemma which the customer will almost always lose. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

My money is on the lot boy spilling his big gulp as he did donuts in the back lot. Check the tires for wear.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

As you stated, I would not say it could never happen with a Mercedes or that they would cover it, BUT and this is only my guessing - Mercedes technicians go to MB University for 3 years before working on Mercedes in Germany.....I am not sure what they do in North America but I think they take additional courses and would be taught not to have any food or drinks in the car when they are working on it......I do believe their dealerships, technicians and mechanics are held to a higher standard of care.....which by the way you pay for.
My MB dealer has been very honest about repairs so far.....the work has always been done professionally and often it has cost less than they estimated.
In GGs case the car is one their technicians probably don't normally work on, probably never got special training for that unique model.
I have dealt with management and salespeople at my brothers Hyundai dealer when we traded in his car and I would never use the word "professional" to describe them (more like need a shower after talking to them).....and I would imagine the technicians would be similar.
All my dealings with MB personnel have been on a very professional level, so I don't think this particular problem would even happen at MB, just MHO.

imidazol97

Betty White, 99 years old, January 17.

I recall she was Sue Ann Nivens on the Mary Tyler Moore show.

TVLand has had two Golden Girl episodes featuring Betty, I mean Rose.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

All my dealings with MB personnel have been on a very professional level, so I don't think this particular problem would even happen at MB, just MHO.

A store is a store.

@graphicguy 's car was test driven by individuals, perhaps with drinks. AND I would hypothesize many managers and salespeople may have driven the car. Drink was spilled; appeared to cause no problem at the time. Only later to be found and used as an excuse for noncoverage of a real or imaginary problem by Hyundai/Kia.

driver100

We are watching about episode 60 of 330 ER's. In one episode we saw lately there was a guy who broke anything electrical when he got near it, TVs, toasters, microwaves, even an elevator in the hospital.

Just wondering.................................

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe1 said:

OK, briefly. They found a “discrepancy with my oil change log sheet”. Said the mileage shown for an oil change I did after they did warranty work for a seat belt light was lower than when they did that work. I showed them where their bookkeeping was wrong with a few service visits but that made no difference to them.
jmonroe

That's what I wanted.

Just remember that with every brand you will find people that have had really bad experiences and people that have had really good experiences. I for one am very satisfied with the Hyundai's that I have had, taking two close to 200K and one now over 100K. I have had wonderful experiences with Hyundai covering its warranty work even on high mileage cars with no questions asked. I wouldn't hesitate on getting another.

Don't let one bad experience nor just one good experience cloud your judgement.

snakeweasel

@driver100 The pay might be bad but at least you are getting paid.....I only get the satisfaction that I am educating the masses.

@snakeweasel "So you don't get any satisfaction.

@driver100 I get the satisfaction of teaching it....I can't help it if the masses can't absorb it.

Can't absorb what's not there.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

We are watching about episode 60 of 330 ER's. In one episode we saw lately there was a guy who broke anything electrical when he got near it, TVs, toasters, microwaves, even an elevator in the hospital.

Just wondering.................................

It happens and I’ve seen it happen first hand while going to school. This guy broke EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING. He even burnt up 2 brand new top of the line dual-trace oscilloscopes and these things cost a fortune. They were state of the art back then. I remember our lab instructor saying things about him like, “he has electron-itis and I can help with dumb but I can’t do anything for stupid”.

In his class we got graded as a team of the 3 guys doing the lab work. Needless to say his team did poorly and his lab partners were furious about it. One night before lab class the instructor pulled me aside and wanted to know if I’d work with this dud because he thought I could control his haste of doing the assignments. I told him flat out I wouldn’t do it and if he went ahead and assigned me to work with him anyway the class would down 2 students because I’d kill that guy and then I’d be in prison for doing it. Fortunately, he listened to me and I finished school.

jmonroe

graphicguy

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

We all know that GG didn’t spill anything but it only takes one time to screw something up. The manufacturer knows he didn’t build the car with that problem and the dealer isn’t going to admit they did it, so we are in a he-said they-said dilemma which the customer will almost always lose. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

Pretty much the way I see it playing out, too. Kia corporate says...”hey, not our problem”. Servicing dealer says.....”we didn’t do it”. Selling dealer says “we know nothing about it”.

Stopped by the selling dealer’s service dept yesterday to get a print out of all the service they had done in preparation of if/when I have to go meet with the arbitrator. Service writer was nice enough. Must have been new as I’d never seen him before (not like I hung out in the service dept all that much). I also asked for the PDI check list, which was in the system, too.

Lo and behold, there on the PDI list was a note at the bottom stating...”Mxxx Sxxxxx console demo spill”. Not sure about what that means or if it’s related to my issue, but it seems it is. The service guy said the guy in question is one of the sales managers. I went to their office to quiz him and he no longer works at the dealership, of course.

At least I’ve got a little bit of evidence in my favor. I still don’t know if they did the recall, either.

I did lay eyes on my Stinger. They’re storing it in one of the inside service bays but wouldn’t let me go see it other than to view it from the service desk.

If this gets to arbitration, the dealership personnel probably won’t be there. If it’s like Cadillac, they sent two lawyers and the regional rep.

I’ll assume KIA would be the same.

stickguy

hopefully your note in the paperwork is the smoking gun.

might just be policy, but seems that sending lawyers will cost way more than fixing the problem. Especially since all you are asking for is them to replace the messed up console, not buy the car back (at least not yet)

explorerx4

I was worried maybe your Stinger was in the body shop.

ab348

stickguy said:

hopefully your note in the paperwork is the smoking gun.

might just be policy, but seems that sending lawyers will cost way more than fixing the problem. Especially since all you are asking for is them to replace the messed up console, not buy the car back (at least not yet)

And do the fire recall, don't forget.

graphicguy

explorerx4 said:

I was worried maybe your Stinger was in the body shop.

I agree. At least from what I could see from 100 feet away, it looked fine. Body shop work is tough to hind, though.

@stickguy ....That’s my hope. But, I would think they would have fixed everything way before now. Why try to hide it? Maybe a rhetorical question, but are Kia dealerships really that deceitful?

Or, is it just Wyler KIA (my selling dealership) that deceitful?

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

A store is a store.

@graphicguy 's car was test driven by individuals, perhaps with drinks. AND I would hypothesize many managers and salespeople may have driven the car. Drink was spilled; appeared to cause no problem at the time. Only later to be found and used as an excuse for noncoverage of a real or imaginary problem by Hyundai/Kia.

Exactly, how a dealer handles issues has almost everything to do with competent management and little to do with the brand

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

As you stated, I would not say it could never happen with a Mercedes or that they would cover it, BUT and this is only my guessing - Mercedes technicians go to MB University for 3 years before working on Mercedes in Germany.....I am not sure what they do in North America but I think they take additional courses and would be taught not to have any food or drinks in the car when they are working on it......I do believe their dealerships, technicians and mechanics are held to a higher standard of care.....which by the way you pay for.
My MB dealer has been very honest about repairs so far.....the work has always been done professionally and often it has cost less than they estimated.
In GGs case the car is one their technicians probably don't normally work on, probably never got special training for that unique model.
I have dealt with management and salespeople at my brothers Hyundai dealer when we traded in his car and I would never use the word "professional" to describe them (more like need a shower after talking to them).....and I would imagine the technicians would be similar.
All my dealings with MB personnel have been on a very professional level, so I don't think this particular problem would even happen at MB, just MHO.

Yeah but what special training does the Mercedes lot boy go through before he takes your car out to McDonalds to buy lunch for the crew?

Also, could you point me towards the chapter in mechanic’s training dealing with slurping soda while working on a car?

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

explorerx4 said:

I was worried maybe your Stinger was in the body shop.

I agree. At least from what I could see from 100 feet away, it looked fine. Body shop work is tough to hind, though.

@stickguy ....That’s my hope. But, I would think they would have fixed everything way before now. Why try to hide it? Maybe a rhetorical question, but are Kia dealerships really that deceitful?

Or, is it just Wyler KIA (my selling dealership) that deceitful?

I’m confused here. So the dealer suddenly experienced gear shifting problem which had never occurred before once it was in their shop? Their investigation traced the problem to a drink spilled into the console. The drink was spilled by someone at a different dealer before you bought the car but it didn’t cause any problems until you brought it in for recall repairs?

If I’m understanding this right something doesn’t add up. How could this mysterious drink wait a year before causing trouble and only once it was in the dealer’s possession? Could the current dealer be trying to cover up a mechanical failure they WOULD have to repair under warranty by blaming the owner or selling dealer?

oldfarmer50

OK here’s something to weigh in on. For my entire driving career when I’ve mixed coolant I’ve just used regular tap water. 50%-50%. Now I read that tap water is no good because it leaves mineral deposits in the system and you should only use distilled water. Fair enough, makes sense.

BUT.....now I read where it says that distilled water is no good because it is ionized by the distilling process and will corrode the metal. They recommend “soft” water which you can’t get unless you have a water softener or a chemistry set.

So what’s the deal here?

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

explorerx4 said:

I was worried maybe your Stinger was in the body shop.

I agree. At least from what I could see from 100 feet away, it looked fine. Body shop work is tough to hind, though.

@stickguy ....That’s my hope. But, I would think they would have fixed everything way before now. Why try to hide it? Maybe a rhetorical question, but are Kia dealerships really that deceitful?

Or, is it just Wyler KIA (my selling dealership) that deceitful?

I’m confused here. So the dealer suddenly experienced gear shifting problem which had never occurred before once it was in their shop? Their investigation traced the problem to a drink spilled into the console. The drink was spilled by someone at a different dealer before you bought the car but it didn’t cause any problems until you brought it in for recall repairs?

If I’m understanding this right something doesn’t add up. How could this mysterious drink wait a year before causing trouble and only once it was in the dealer’s possession? Could the current dealer be trying to cover up a mechanical failure they WOULD have to repair under warranty by blaming the owner or selling dealer?

Humm, sounds a lot like something I said a day ago. But asking a logical question twice means not everybody can be snowballed by service department attempts at a cover up.

jmonroe

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

OK here’s something to weigh in on. For my entire driving career when I’ve mixed coolant I’ve just used regular tap water. 50%-50%. Now I read that tap water is no good because it leaves mineral deposits in the system and you should only use distilled water. Fair enough, makes sense.

BUT.....now I read where it says that distilled water is no good because it is ionized by the distilling process and will corrode the metal. They recommend “soft” water which you can’t get unless you have a water softener or a chemistry set.

So what’s the deal here?

Since the early’80s I’ve used nothing but distilled water to mix with coolant and I’ve never had any cooling system issues in any of my vehicles- British, German, Japanese, or American.
I think most people screw up by running a cheap generic coolant rather than the coolant specified by the OEM.

sda

graphicguy said:

explorerx4 said:

I was worried maybe your Stinger was in the body shop.

I agree. At least from what I could see from 100 feet away, it looked fine. Body shop work is tough to hind, though.

@stickguy ....That’s my hope. But, I would think they would have fixed everything way before now. Why try to hide it? Maybe a rhetorical question, but are Kia dealerships really that deceitful?

Or, is it just Wyler KIA (my selling dealership) that deceitful?

At least it is being stored inside the garage as GG does at home and not outside in the weather. If there is a fire hazard it’s the dealership’s garage and not GG’s.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

OK here’s something to weigh in on. For my entire driving career when I’ve mixed coolant I’ve just used regular tap water. 50%-50%. Now I read that tap water is no good because it leaves mineral deposits in the system and you should only use distilled water. Fair enough, makes sense.

BUT.....now I read where it says that distilled water is no good because it is ionized by the distilling process and will corrode the metal. They recommend “soft” water which you can’t get unless you have a water softener or a chemistry set.

So what’s the deal here?

The deal is that if you search hard enough (and it doesn't take much) you will find something that would support just about anything. Sometimes it's self feeding.

abacomike

graphicguy said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

We all know that GG didn’t spill anything but it only takes one time to screw something up. The manufacturer knows he didn’t build the car with that problem and the dealer isn’t going to admit they did it, so we are in a he-said they-said dilemma which the customer will almost always lose. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

Pretty much the way I see it playing out, too. Kia corporate says...”hey, not our problem”. Servicing dealer says.....”we didn’t do it”. Selling dealer says “we know nothing about it”.

Stopped by the selling dealer’s service dept yesterday to get a print out of all the service they had done in preparation of if/when I have to go meet with the arbitrator. Service writer was nice enough. Must have been new as I’d never seen him before (not like I hung out in the service dept all that much). I also asked for the PDI check list, which was in the system, too.

Lo and behold, there on the PDI list was a note at the bottom stating...”Mxxx Sxxxxx console demo spill”. Not sure about what that means or if it’s related to my issue, but it seems it is. The service guy said the guy in question is one of the sales managers. I went to their office to quiz him and he no longer works at the dealership, of course.

At least I’ve got a little bit of evidence in my favor. I still don’t know if they did the recall, either.

I did lay eyes on my Stinger. They’re storing it in one of the inside service bays but wouldn’t let me go see it other than to view it from the service desk.

If this gets to arbitration, the dealership personnel probably won’t be there. If it’s like Cadillac, they sent two lawyers and the regional rep.

I’ll assume KIA would be the same.

That “console demo spill” comment on the PDI checklist is, in fact, the smoking gun that will win you the case at an arbitration hearing. It is more than a presumption that there was a spill on the console - it is a fact! It states that precisely - demo spill on console!

Great investigative work on your part, GG. If I was arbitrating a case where there is damage due to a possible spill in the console, there is enough supporting evidence that there was some sort of spill on the console prior to delivery of the vehicle to you which I would then rule in favor of the plaintiff - you!🤓

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

OK here’s something to weigh in on. For my entire driving career when I’ve mixed coolant I’ve just used regular tap water. 50%-50%. Now I read that tap water is no good because it leaves mineral deposits in the system and you should only use distilled water. Fair enough, makes sense.

BUT.....now I read where it says that distilled water is no good because it is ionized by the distilling process and will corrode the metal. They recommend “soft” water which you can’t get unless you have a water softener or a chemistry set.

So what’s the deal here?

This all sounds like an overload of information on the internet. Until car manufacturers recommend it and package it, I’d just consider this expected info from the internet.

Hey, just got an idea. Go on the internet and recommend using a little bourbon. I haven’t heard of folks having corrosion problems when they use it for medicinal purposes. 😳

jmonroe

graphicguy

@oldfarmer50 ....Not sure I get what happened, either. The selling dealer apparently spilled something sticky in/on the console according to the PDI report. A year later, the servicing dealer could not get in gear while they had it to do a recall for engine fires. I also complained that the heated steering wheel button was sticking. The heated steering wheel button and the trans shift selector are all part of the console and the electronics in the console.

In my estimation, KIA corporate is obviously responsible for the recall for engine fires. The rest is either the fault of the selling dealer, or the servicing dealer. I just started using the heated steering wheel since it started getting really cold. Perhaps the heated steering wheel button was sticking well before that. I don’t know. The ship ifter would sometimes take a slight moment to go into gear, but it would choose the correct gear. Not going into gear is something the servicing dealer is reporting to me. They say the sticking residue on the electronics in the console is the cause.

FF the PDI report is to be taken by itself, spilling something sticky on the console is the cause. And, it was done before I bought it.

I’m guessing, though!

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

I’m confused here. So the dealer suddenly experienced gear shifting problem which had never occurred before once it was in their shop? Their investigation traced the problem to a drink spilled into the console. The drink was spilled by someone at a different dealer before you bought the car but it didn’t cause any problems until you brought it in for recall repairs?

Possible, Maybe not that it suddenly started when it got to the dealership but rather if GG doesn't have much experience with that model outside of his own car might not notice a subtle difference in shifting. A difference that an experienced mechanic might notice and think something isn't just right and investigate.

Not saying that's what happened just putting it out there for consideration.

abacomike

I’ve lately become a fan of Shawn Mendes, a young singer, performer and song writer. He composes most of his songs about his long term relationship with his girlfriend who lives here in Miami with her parents. Shawn Mendes has been living with them down here since the pandemic. He is a Toronto native of Portuguese decent.

My favorite three songs of his are:

I WONDER
TEACH ME HOW TO LOVE
NEVER BE ALONE

I highly recommend the above if you enjoy light rock love songs that relate to real life situations. You can go to the iTunes Store to listen to a sampling of those songs. Or go to Amazon Music or Apple Music to listen. Let me know what you think of him - just in case I am becoming melancholy in my old age!🤪😜🤓

jmonroe1

graphicguy said:

@oldfarmer50 ....Not sure I get what happened, either. The selling dealer apparently spilled something sticky in/on the console according to the PDI report. A year later, the servicing dealer could not get in gear while they had it to do a recall for engine fires. I also complained that the heated steering wheel button was sticking. The heated steering wheel button and the trans shift selector are all part of the console and the electronics in the console.

In my estimation, KIA corporate is obviously responsible for the recall for engine fires. The rest is either the fault of the selling dealer, or the servicing dealer. I just started using the heated steering wheel since it started getting really cold. Perhaps the heated steering wheel button was sticking well before that. I don’t know. The ship ifter would sometimes take a slight moment to go into gear, but it would choose the correct gear. Not going into gear is something the servicing dealer is reporting to me. They say the sticking residue on the electronics in the console is the cause.

FF the PDI report is to be taken by itself, spilling something sticky on the console is the cause. And, it was done before I bought it.

I’m guessing, though!

There’s nothing saying there wasn’t a second spill since you didn’t notice any problem before you dropped it off. Like I said before it doesn’t take a year for a sugary spill to show it’s head.

Put a cup holder in the proximity of a switch and something bad has to happen and not just once either.

jmonroe

stickguy

just watched the latest JRGO video, where he was wrapping up a cooling system overhaul on an old X5. And addressed that the Peak coolant he used was within spec for the car.

but the relevant part, he bought pre mixed because of the soft water issue. He has a water softener at his house, but not yet at his new shop where the car is, so he did not want to use stuff he had to dilute himself.

driver100

abacomike said:

graphicguy said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

We all know that GG didn’t spill anything but it only takes one time to screw something up. The manufacturer knows he didn’t build the car with that problem and the dealer isn’t going to admit they did it, so we are in a he-said they-said dilemma which the customer will almost always lose. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

Pretty much the way I see it playing out, too. Kia corporate says...”hey, not our problem”. Servicing dealer says.....”we didn’t do it”. Selling dealer says “we know nothing about it”.

Stopped by the selling dealer’s service dept yesterday to get a print out of all the service they had done in preparation of if/when I have to go meet with the arbitrator. Service writer was nice enough. Must have been new as I’d never seen him before (not like I hung out in the service dept all that much). I also asked for the PDI check list, which was in the system, too.

Lo and behold, there on the PDI list was a note at the bottom stating...”Mxxx Sxxxxx console demo spill”. Not sure about what that means or if it’s related to my issue, but it seems it is. The service guy said the guy in question is one of the sales managers. I went to their office to quiz him and he no longer works at the dealership, of course.

At least I’ve got a little bit of evidence in my favor. I still don’t know if they did the recall, either.

I did lay eyes on my Stinger. They’re storing it in one of the inside service bays but wouldn’t let me go see it other than to view it from the service desk.

If this gets to arbitration, the dealership personnel probably won’t be there. If it’s like Cadillac, they sent two lawyers and the regional rep.

I’ll assume KIA would be the same.

That “console demo spill” comment on the PDI checklist is, in fact, the smoking gun that will win you the case at an arbitration hearing. It is more than a presumption that there was a spill on the console - it is a fact! It states that precisely - demo spill on console!

Great investigative work on your part, GG. If I was arbitrating a case where there is damage due to a possible spill in the console, there is enough supporting evidence that there was some sort of spill on the console prior to delivery of the vehicle to you which I would then rule in favor of the plaintiff - you!🤓

Well said Mike....have you been watching Judge Judy, sounds like what she would do?

driver100

graphicguy said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

We all know that GG didn’t spill anything but it only takes one time to screw something up. The manufacturer knows he didn’t build the car with that problem and the dealer isn’t going to admit they did it, so we are in a he-said they-said dilemma which the customer will almost always lose. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

Lo and behold, there on the PDI list was a note at the bottom stating...”Mxxx Sxxxxx console demo spill”. Not sure about what that means or if it’s related to my issue, but it seems it is. The service guy said the guy in question is one of the sales managers. I went to their office to quiz him and he no longer works at the dealership, of course.

What a find! That is your ticket out of Dodge. Surprised they would record that.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

I’ve lately become a fan of Shawn Mendes, a young singer, performer and song writer. He composes most of his songs about his long term relationship with his girlfriend who lives here in Miami with her parents. Shawn Mendes has been living with them down here since the pandemic. He is a Toronto native of Portuguese decent.

My favorite three songs of his are:

I WONDER
TEACH ME HOW TO LOVE
NEVER BE ALONE

I highly recommend the above if you enjoy light rock love songs that relate to real life situations. You can go to the iTunes Store to listen to a sampling of those songs. Or go to Amazon Music or Apple Music to listen. Let me know what you think of him - just in case I am becoming melancholy in my old age!🤪😜🤓

I hate to say this but I went and listened to the first two songs and I found them not to be that different than what's coming out of the song mill that feeds popular music these days.

Now one I have recently found is a group called "The Ghost of Paul Revere", More of folk music but here are a few of their songs.

The Ballad of the 20th Maine - This is the official state ballad of Maine
After Many Miles
Montréal

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

OK here’s something to weigh in on. For my entire driving career when I’ve mixed coolant I’ve just used regular tap water. 50%-50%. Now I read that tap water is no good because it leaves mineral deposits in the system and you should only use distilled water. Fair enough, makes sense.

BUT.....now I read where it says that distilled water is no good because it is ionized by the distilling process and will corrode the metal. They recommend “soft” water which you can’t get unless you have a water softener or a chemistry set.

So what’s the deal here?

Was this the article you read?
https://blog.protectmycar.com/can-you-mix-tap-water-with-engine-coolant
The article says what you stated, but explains in detail why soft water is better than distilled, and distilled is better than tap water.
The article is placed by an extended car warranty company, but they have nothing to gain by giving you misinformation.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

GG, you just have terrible luck with cars. But at least you are an expert on lemon law at this point. Might want to start leasing so when they turn to junk you can just give it back.

Would leasing really help. The car is less than a year old with at least 2 years left to go on a lease. It would be easier to hand it back at the end of the lease, but during the lease the leaser probably has to pay for repairs not covered under warranty.

Another thing, odd the car has a problem.....that just happens to be something not covered by the warranty, and who ever heard of a liquid getting into the console on a fairly new car, especially if there are no signs the person eats and drinks in their car. What good is a warranty if the car maker tries everything possible to not honor the warranty?

. I hope you’re not saying “if this was a Mercedes, they’d cover it” because in situations like this everyone claims innocence.

jmonroe

As you stated, I would not say it could never happen with a Mercedes or that they would cover it, BUT and this is only my guessing - Mercedes technicians go to MB University for 3 years before working on Mercedes in Germany.....I am not sure what they do in North America but I think they take additional courses and would be taught not to have any food or drinks in the car when they are working on it......I do believe their dealerships, technicians and mechanics are held to a higher standard of care.....which by the way you pay for.
My MB dealer has been very honest about repairs so far.....the work has always been done professionally and often it has cost less than they estimated.
In GGs case the car is one their technicians probably don't normally work on, probably never got special training for that unique model.
I have dealt with management and salespeople at my brothers Hyundai dealer when we traded in his car and I would never use the word "professional" to describe them (more like need a shower after talking to them).....and I would imagine the technicians would be similar.
All my dealings with MB personnel have been on a very professional level, so I don't think this particular problem would even happen at MB, just MHO.

Yeah but what special training does the Mercedes lot boy go through before he takes your car out to McDonalds to buy lunch for the crew?

Also, could you point me towards the chapter in mechanic’s training dealing with slurping soda while working on a car?

Mercedes dealer lot boy take a car to McDonalds to pick up lunch for the dealership crew.....probably against the rules and regulations and would lead to immediate dismissal. They have a cafe inside the dealership, fancy sandwiches and free coffee, in paper or fine china cups

tjc78

@graphicguy
Brutal you have to go through this all again. Hopefully with that note in the PDI things go in your favor.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

Lo and behold, there on the PDI list was a note at the bottom stating...”Mxxx Sxxxxx console demo spill”. Not sure about what that means or if it’s related to my issue, but it seems it is. The service guy said the guy in question is one of the sales managers. I went to their office to quiz him and he no longer works at the dealership, of course.

Was that at the selling dealer? They had claimed earlier nothing happened at their store?
Now the note is present on the PDI. And they claim M____ S_____ used to work there. Seems cut and dried.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

That is your ticket out of Dodge.

It's a Kia, not a Dodge.

imidazol97

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

All my dealings with MB personnel have been on a very professional level, so I don't think this particular problem would even happen at MB, just MHO.

A store is a store.

@graphicguy 's car was test driven by individuals, perhaps with drinks. AND I would hypothesize manymanagers and salespeople may have driven the car. Drink was spilled; appeared to cause no problem at the time. Only later to be found and used as an excuse for noncoverage of a real or imaginary problem by Hyundai/Kia.

I was clairvoyant? That's the problem with cup holders in cars. I use the one in my driver's door pocket at the bottom of the door part of the time despite Malibu's designers having put two on top of the console in very convenient locations.

roadburner

I have yet to see any evidence of a cooling system damaged by using distilled water. Again, the OEM specification for the coolant is what matters- G48(a HOAT coolant) in the case of BMW. Zerex G48 is available prediluted if the distilled vs. softened water conundrum is keeping you awake at night.
FCP Euro specifically recommends using either distilled or demineralized water; they sell parts and provide servicing information for eight different European manufacturers, so I’ll gladly rely on their advice.
After over 25 years and 147k miles the cooling system of my Club Sport has only needed a thermostat and one plastic fitting, so I suspect that the use of distilled water isn’t a death sentence for a modern cooling system.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

explorerx4 said:

I was worried maybe your Stinger was in the body shop.

I agree. At least from what I could see from 100 feet away, it looked fine. Body shop work is tough to hind, though.

@stickguy ....That’s my hope. But, I would think they would have fixed everything way before now. Why try to hide it? Maybe a rhetorical question, but are Kia dealerships really that deceitful?

Or, is it just Wyler KIA (my selling dealership) that deceitful?

I’m confused here. So the dealer suddenly experienced gear shifting problem which had never occurred before once it was in their shop? Their investigation traced the problem to a drink spilled into the console. The drink was spilled by someone at a different dealer before you bought the car but it didn’t cause any problems until you brought it in for recall repairs?

If I’m understanding this right something doesn’t add up. How could this mysterious drink wait a year before causing trouble and only once it was in the dealer’s possession? Could the current dealer be trying to cover up a mechanical failure they WOULD have to repair under warranty by blaming the owner or selling dealer?

Humm, sounds a lot like something I said a day ago. But asking a logical question twice means not everybody can be snowballed by service department attempts at a cover up.

jmonroe

Great minds think alike.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK here’s something to weigh in on. For my entire driving career when I’ve mixed coolant I’ve just used regular tap water. 50%-50%. Now I read that tap water is no good because it leaves mineral deposits in the system and you should only use distilled water. Fair enough, makes sense.

BUT.....now I read where it says that distilled water is no good because it is ionized by the distilling process and will corrode the metal. They recommend “soft” water which you can’t get unless you have a water softener or a chemistry set.

So what’s the deal here?

Was this the article you read?
https://blog.protectmycar.com/can-you-mix-tap-water-with-engine-coolant
The article says what you stated, but explains in detail why soft water is better than distilled, and distilled is better than tap water.
The article is placed by an extended car warranty company, but they have nothing to gain by giving you misinformation.

I think that might be it.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

I have yet to see any evidence of a cooling system damaged by using distilled water. Again, the OEM specification for the coolant is what maters- G48(a HOAT coolant) in the case of BMW. Zerex G48 is available prediluted if the distilled vs. softened water conundrum is keeping you awake at night.
FCP Euro specifically recommends using either distilled or demineralized water; they sell parts and provide servicing information for eight different European manufacturers, so I’ll gladly rely on their advice.
After over 25 years and 145k miles the cooling system of my Club Sport has only needed a thermostat and one plastic fitting, so I suspect distilled water isn’t a death sentence for a cooling system.

It just seems that someone keeps coming up with another “if you don’t do this it will destroy your car” requirement. As a kid we’d run plain hose water until freezing weather to save a few bucks. Once antifreeze was installed we’d never change it again. Same with brake fluid. Tranny fluid too. Maybe it was because cars didn’t last as long back then. Also maybe they didn’t last as long because we neglected them.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

explorerx4 said:

I was worried maybe your Stinger was in the body shop.

I agree. At least from what I could see from 100 feet away, it looked fine. Body shop work is tough to hind, though.

@stickguy ....That’s my hope. But, I would think they would have fixed everything way before now. Why try to hide it? Maybe a rhetorical question, but are Kia dealerships really that deceitful?

Or, is it just Wyler KIA (my selling dealership) that deceitful?

I’m confused here. So the dealer suddenly experienced gear shifting problem which had never occurred before once it was in their shop? Their investigation traced the problem to a drink spilled into the console. The drink was spilled by someone at a different dealer before you bought the car but it didn’t cause any problems until you brought it in for recall repairs?

If I’m understanding this right something doesn’t add up. How could this mysterious drink wait a year before causing trouble and only once it was in the dealer’s possession? Could the current dealer be trying to cover up a mechanical failure they WOULD have to repair under warranty by blaming the owner or selling dealer?

Humm, sounds a lot like something I said a day ago. But asking a logical question twice means not everybody can be snowballed by service department attempts at a cover up.

jmonroe

Great minds think alike.

....and fools seldom differ