One new discovery I didn't mention. The Mazda has rain sensitive wipers. This was a perfect day for that coming home. Varying degrees of on and off drizzle.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Great story, Mike!
One new discovery I didn't mention. The Mazda has rain sensitive wipers. This was a perfect day for that coming home. Varying degrees of on and off drizzle.
It was a VERY BIG DISAPPOINTMENT since I had major plans that night.
Rain sensing wipers are a terrific feature. I have 2 settings - default and increased sensitivity for drizzle. Then, I still have manual settings for low, medium and high speeds. I use the feature all the time down here during rainy season which starts June 1st.
May have a sales story soon. Not me, of course. I'm helping a co-worker lease a new car.
Given the lease deals, he has settled on an Infiniti Q40 AWD with Moonroof and Nav. Heck of a lot of car for $300/month including 9.8% tax and no money down, if we can land on that. We are close.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
Well, I finally saw my daughter after the ER tonight. She needs some work - probably down her whole spine. She's stiff and has lost some flexibility. It does all look like something a good orthopedist could take care of. Pay him whatever he wants. He's on the S O B's dime. The man tried to make it my daughter's fault, saying she was a little over the stop line. She got pushed over it by the impact, but so what? That makes it OK to hit someone stopped at a stoplight? As my oldest is back on the road I'm down most days to driving the banged up Camry while Michelle drives the Prius and my wife drives my suddenly precious Mazda.
This, too, shall pass.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Well, I finally saw my daughter after the ER tonight. She needs some work - probably down her whole spine. She's stiff and has lost some flexibility. It does all look like something a good orthopedist could take care of. Pay him whatever he wants. He's on the S O B's dime. The man tried to make it my daughter's fault, saying she was a little over the stop line. She got pushed over it by the impact, but so what? That makes it OK to hit someone stopped at a stoplight? As my oldest is back on the road I'm down most days to driving the banged up Camry while Michelle drives the Prius and my wife drives my suddenly precious Mazda.
This, too, shall pass.
What does the police report have to say? That should close the case in your favor.
driver...I've been down this road with them before. I have "chatted" with them. I have talked to them on the phone. I've told 3 dealerships my problems.
They (Cadillac) add layer upon layer of roadblocks you have to overcome to get to them. I can't even get them to acknowledge there's a problem. If it isn't a simple fix, that they can find "with a code", they turn into the 3 Monkees..."See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil".
They told me they fixed it once (they didn't). What's it going to take? Me hitting another car, or worse, a person? I'm the one at fault if that happens.
Fact is, I made GM (and in turn, Cadillac) my first choice in resolving my issue. They deny I have an issue. According to them, they can't fix it anyway.
GG, so sorry you are going through this anguish and unfortunately you seem to be a victim of too much technology in a car.
Technology is nice but only when they work flawlessly. I was reading in the news that a guy was able to take temporary control of a plane while in flight by tampering with the plane's entertainment system under the seat. And in an auto related story they showed that a car was completely taken over by remote control.
So, I was wondering, do you have incompatible electronics in your car, or could it be a neighbor's kid unintentionally sabotaging your car? I would run that scenario by your dealer and ask them to reprogram the computers to factory setting. If that does not work, then you a have a real lemon on your hands---and in that case when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
Well, I finally saw my daughter after the ER tonight. She needs some work - probably down her whole spine. She's stiff and has lost some flexibility. It does all look like something a good orthopedist could take care of. Pay him whatever he wants. He's on the S O B's dime. The man tried to make it my daughter's fault, saying she was a little over the stop line. She got pushed over it by the impact, but so what? That makes it OK to hit someone stopped at a stoplight? As my oldest is back on the road I'm down most days to driving the banged up Camry while Michelle drives the Prius and my wife drives my suddenly precious Mazda.
This, too, shall pass.
Almost always, the person who hits the other person, is the one at fault.
Sometimes the injuries don't show up until days later. Stiffness sometimes goes away after awhile though.
HOpe it all works out. It seems the victim is always worse off than the perpetrator.
May have a sales story soon. Not me, of course. I'm helping a co-worker lease a new car.
Given the lease deals, he has settled on an Infiniti Q40 AWD with Moonroof and Nav. Heck of a lot of car for $300/month including 9.8% tax and no money down, if we can land on that. We are close.
Driving a car of that quality for $3600 a year (with an option to buy it) sounds like a good deal.
driver...I've been down this road with them before. I have "chatted" with them. I have talked to them on the phone. I've told 3 dealerships my problems.
They (Cadillac) add layer upon layer of roadblocks you have to overcome to get to them. I can't even get them to acknowledge there's a problem. If it isn't a simple fix, that they can find "with a code", they turn into the 3 Monkees..."See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil".
They told me they fixed it once (they didn't). What's it going to take? Me hitting another car, or worse, a person? I'm the one at fault if that happens.
Fact is, I made GM (and in turn, Cadillac) my first choice in resolving my issue. They deny I have an issue. According to them, they can't fix it anyway.
GG, so sorry you are going through this anguish and unfortunately you seem to be a victim of too much technology in a car.
Technology is nice but only when they work flawlessly. I was reading in the news that a guy was able to take temporary control of a plane while in flight by tampering with the plane's entertainment system under the seat. And in an auto related story they showed that a car was completely taken over by remote control.
So, I was wondering, do you have incompatible electronics in your car, or could it be a neighbor's kid unintentionally sabotaging your car? I would run that scenario by your dealer and ask them to reprogram the computers to factory setting. If that does not work, then you a have a real lemon on your hands---and in that case when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
bwia...thanks. I appreciated the support of everyone here.
Not really sure what the issues are. Last car I turned wrenches on was a 25 year old Mustang track beast, with a carburator and totally mechanical linkages for steering. So, these cars are a world away from that.
Computer issue? I suppose anything is possible. Incompatible electronics? The only thing I plug into it is my iPhone to listen to my music through CUE. Surprisingly, that works relatively well for the most part. Every once in awhile CUE gets confused and doesn't list the correct tack information. And, the voice recognition, although one of the best I've used, still could use some work. That's it as far as electronics that I plug into the car. I could overlook that. But, given Cadillac's attitude, those become just two of the many issues the car has.
Is the steering and stalling computer related? I have no idea. But, since two dealers claim there are no codes the computer shows, I'll assume it's something else. The stalling? There are 3 things an engine needs to run....air, fuel and spark. I'm using nothing but Top Tier fuel, so I'll rule that out. Lack of (or poor) spark would likely cause a misfire and throw a code, so that's not happening. To the best of my knowledge, there's plenty of air getting to the motor, so that's likely out, too. Even if a fuel injector is bad, I would think that a code would show that.
So, maybe it's the ECU itself that's bad. Possibility.
Power steering? It's electrical. It comes and goes (just like the stalling). Again, if the mechanical portion was bad, it would be a constant problem. Although it doesn't happen all the time, it does happen with a fair amount of regularity, that I believe there's something that's causing the the communication between the steering wheel input to be interrupted or disrupted to the power steering pump. What that is? I don't know. It's nothing on my end that would cause that, though. Again, perhaps something is wrong with the ECU. given they've already replaced the power steering pump.
But, here's the kicker, the car isn't showing any codes, so that's where they tell me they can't fix it. If I could do my amateurish diagnosis above, then I would think Cadillac, who knows more about their cars than I do, would be able to follow that same line of thinking, too.
I suppose I'm getting some traction after filing with the BBB and contacting the NHTSB given I started getting phone calls last night from GM directly (not Cadillac, but GM). I explained the issues probably 3 times to different people yesterday. One lady stated...."so the dealers told you the car was operating as designed?"
"Nope...no one told me that because the car certainly DOES NOT operate as designed. They said they couldn't fix it because the car didn't show a code to tell them what to fix."
Shortly after that, the dealer service manager called me and wanted me to bring the car back in. For what, I don't know given his staff were the ones who told me that not only could they not diagnose the problem, but they couldn't fix it, either. He wanted me to give the dealership another shot so they could keep it a few days. As I told him, I would drop it off today but am leaving for a business trip tomorrow and wouldn't be back until late next week. That was a "non-starter" since he said he could not let me have a loaner car for that long.
OK>...back to square one then.
GM people called me back, wanting to know what I wanted them to do. I told them to buy the car back. They asked if they could give me another car, if that would suffice. No...not after the service debacle I've had with the current one.
They're supposed to get back to me.
Meanwhile, my lawyer owes me a couple of favors so he is sending a letter re-emphasizing the safety issues with the car and the remedy I'm seeking.
We'll see how this ends up. At some point, I'm going to have to rent a car for awhile as I'm not driving the CTS. I think they'll try to stall me. But, now I'm resolved. Looked at a 220K mile Civic for sale last night. Rusty, seats are sagging as is the headliner, but seems to run OK. He wants $1,500. I offered him $750, cash on the spot. He almost bit on it. But said he wanted to see if he got a better offer over the next couple of days. If not, he said it's mine. At that price, I think I could probably sell it for what I paid for it a few months down the road after this gets sorted out. That would help as I could wait indefinitely for this to get resolved.
If you are going out of town, make a deal. Drop it off, and they take you to airport, and have you picked up. Car is just going to sit anyway, might as well sit at the dealer.
My guess, they won't buy back until it goes in again, and they somehow get higher end (factory?) engineers involved to really look into it.
If I had to bet, I would take bad ecu in some form, or something related like a bad ground. Not of corse test I know what the heck I am talking about!
This is starting to sound eerily familiar. I had to replace two Body Control Modules in my '03 Saturn L300 about 18 months apart when I owned the car. While I didn't have the same issues with stalling that @graphicguy is experiencing, it was annoying to deal with.
IMHO, the dealer can't fix something they have not seen happen or has a code. They can't just throw parts at it hoping it will fix the problem. Hence that's why they want you to leave it with them.
Since you are going out of town, leave it with them and ask for a loaner until you go away.
IMHO, the dealer can't fix something they have not seen happen or has a code. They can't just throw parts at it hoping it will fix the problem. Hence that's why they want you to leave it with them.
Since you are going out of town, leave it with them and ask for a loaner until you go away.
I was willing to leave it with them. They balked because I told them I couldn't get a loaner car back to them for a week.
If they aren't being compensated to look at anything other than what codes are telling them, and they aren't getting compensation for a loaner car for me to use for a week, I don't have any faith they're going to make any more progress than they already have.
They have thrown parts at the problem. They replaced the power steering pump. Clearly, they didn't test it after they put the pump in. They would have felt the "ratcheting" action in the steering wheel and noticed something was amiss.
As the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression. I've given them several chances, and they've mostly failed every step of the way.
Changing one part is hardly throwing parts at it. It was probably the best choice considering the symptoms. I think you need to give them an opportunity.
IMHO, people on this board will accept nothing less than perfection. Talks of lemon law and buyback after one issue, getting attorneys involved, et al is jut too much at this point. Give them a chance to make it right.
Changing one part is hardly throwing parts at it. It was probably the best choice considering the symptoms. I think you need to give them an opportunity.
IMHO, people on this board will accept nothing less than perfection. Talks of lemon law and buyback after one issue, getting attorneys involved, et al is jut too much at this point. Give them a chance to make it right.
I don't believe graphicguy is being unreasonable at all. The first time he took the car in the dealer acknowledged that there was a problem, but once their repairs didn't work the issue became "normal operation." If a tech can't troubleshoot a problem without a "code" he is nothing but a part replacing drone. I wouldn't want to deal with those incompetents either.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Changing one part is hardly throwing parts at it. It was probably the best choice considering the symptoms. I think you need to give them an opportunity.
IMHO, people on this board will accept nothing less than perfection. Talks of lemon law and buyback after one issue, getting attorneys involved, et al is jut too much at this point. Give them a chance to make it right.
Let's see....I gave them two chances at the selling dealer. I gave another dealer the chance to fix it. Both dealers failed at every attempt.
What's the magic number of times to fix a problem? Once? Twice? Is it when the steering goes out and I hit the car traveling in the other direction? Or, do I wait until I'm on the interstate going 65 and have the car stall, losing my steering and wiping out a slew of vehicles? How many dealers should I have to take it to?
How should I interpret their seeming ineptness. What should I think when they tell me they can't fix the problem...MORE THAN ONCE? Should I take it to the dealer again and have them tell me it's fixed, only to find out it isn't? They've done that to me, too.
Should I leave it with them a day, a week, a month? Should I go ahead a rent a car while they have mine in the farage so I can continue with my work, my personal life? Until maybe they find the cause, or maybe not?
How much money should I have spent on a car to get reliable service from it? $20K? $40K? $60K? Or, should I spend even more? Would spending more get me a reliable car? Or, at least one where the manufacturer and dealer don't pretend like my problems are minor and not worth their best effort to fix them?
On a lighter note, they must be having snowball fight in Hades; I clicked a "Get your ePrice!" button on an ad for a new Mustang GT and actually received a quote! The advertised price was $3429 under MSRP and the ePrice was only $172 below that. Still, I'm giving them a call to see if the X-Plan price is any better.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Listen - I know it's a difficult situation. But they offered to take your car while you were away. Give them that chance. If it doesn't work, then move onto Lemon Law.
According to the state of Ohio, the dealer has 3 chances to fix it:
Does the steering completely fail or do you just lose power steering. If the former, jump and down. If the latter, you should be able to still drive it to a safe stop. If you car stalls, you shouldn't lose the power steering still it's electric.
It seems in this area that people prefer to yell and scream first and then complain why the dealer/retailer/person is being unfair to them. I like to take the honey and sugar approach to things. It works better and I tend to get my way more often then.
I know I am in the minority here so I think it's time to go back to lurking. Peace out.
IMHO, the dealer can't fix something they have not seen happen or has a code. They can't just throw parts at it hoping it will fix the problem. Hence that's why they want you to leave it with them.
Since you are going out of town, leave it with them and ask for a loaner until you go away.
I was willing to leave it with them. They balked because I told them I couldn't get a loaner car back to them for a week.
If they aren't being compensated to look at anything other than what codes are telling them, and they aren't getting compensation for a loaner car for me to use for a week, I don't have any faith they're going to make any more progress than they already have.
They have thrown parts at the problem. They replaced the power steering pump. Clearly, they didn't test it after they put the pump in. They would have felt the "ratcheting" action in the steering wheel and noticed something was amiss.
As the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression. I've given them several chances, and they've mostly failed every step of the way.
A so called luxury car dealer who won't supply you with a loaner when you have a problem like this just seems idiotic on their part. Old habits die hard I guess. Be careful though, someone here might flag you (or me) for abuse !!
Changing one part is hardly throwing parts at it. It was probably the best choice considering the symptoms. I think you need to give them an opportunity.
IMHO, people on this board will accept nothing less than perfection. Talks of lemon law and buyback after one issue, getting attorneys involved, et al is jut too much at this point. Give them a chance to make it right.
Rob, GG is upset and I do not read anything in his posts that would make any reader think he is seeking perfection. All I read in his posts is that he has given his dealership several opportunities to solve 2 major problems and another Cadillac dealership another opportunity. There is no reason why they should not give him a loaner for 6-7 days or at least offer to assist with his transportation need to the airport or to and from his house.
Rob, take into consideration GG's state of mind - he is furious and venting that anger and frustration. This is no time for OBJECTIVITY - it is a time for EMPATHY!
To me, the magic # of visits is when you finally get escalated. So far you have been in "pest" mode to dealer,who can't find anything so they think you are a flake. So the ne t visit only makes sense if Cadillac corporate somehow is taking charge, so it will seriously be looked into. If it is just the same tech looking for codes,why bother?
So maybe they finally fix root cause. If not, they have no more legs to stand on regarding a buyback.
My BMW and Mazda dealer always try to be proactive- looking for ways to help or address a problem. GG's dealers(and Cadillac) appear to be taking the approach that they've done all they can do, so tough luck for GG. That's completely unacceptable.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Listen - I know it's a difficult situation. But they offered to take your car while you were away. Give them that chance. If it doesn't work, then move onto Lemon Law.
According to the state of Ohio, the dealer has 3 chances to fix it:
Does the steering completely fail or do you just lose power steering. If the former, jump and down. If the latter, you should be able to still drive it to a safe stop. If you car stalls, you shouldn't lose the power steering still it's electric.
It seems in this area that people prefer to yell and scream first and then complain why the dealer/retailer/person is being unfair to them. I like to take the honey and sugar approach to things. It works better and I tend to get my way more often then.
I know I am in the minority here so I think it's time to go back to lurking. Peace out.
According to the State of Ohio, they get one chance to fix a safety issue. Loss of (power) steering is a safety issue, particularly when the effort you expect to steer the car while driving increases by about 25X and the steering wheel begins to shake in your hands. Or, you're driving along the road and the car just stalls. That's a safety issue, too.
I've given two different dealers multiple opportunities to fix the problem. They didn't.
I gave Cadillac corporate the opportunity to authorize whatever it took took to fix it. They reefused that opportunity, unless I get my own transportation on my own dime. Which isn't exactly what they lead you to believe when you read their warranty terms.
They can stand their ground. I can dig in my heels, too.
GG, I don't understand the loaner car issue. If you're out of town, what's the need for the loaner? Were you planning on driving on the trip using your own car? If so, tell them you've changed plans and will be around. Take whatever loaner they offer. Then go on your trip. If they call, tell them you unexpectedly got called away, nothing you could do. They can't do anything about it.
I know in my past experience dealing with a service issue with GM corporate, I got a loaner/rental vehicle while mine was in the shop.Their policy was that It was on their dime until the parts arrived and were installed. GM parts do not arrive quickly in my experience. I cannot imagine that they could diagnose the issue and get parts that quickly anyway.
1. At this point they don't have faintest idea, which parts. 2. They aren't curious, which parts, either. 3. They want him gone, they act like he's imagining things. They treat him like a pest. 4. It also appears that all their "factory certified" technician can do he knows how to plug the computer into a USB port and read messages. 5. Provided that this is all they could do, they don't appear to be interested in asking for a consultation by a factory technician that may know a bit more than just plugging the computer. 6. They even think a bit longer loaner for a customer that is in obvious distress is such a hardship that they'd rather say no, can do.
By the way, this is CADILLAC. Not Hyundai, not Toyota, not Chevy, or even Buick. CADILLAC - name that in their mind is supposed to evoke thoughts of highest quality, competence, top notch service. A brand that puts stickers on their new product indicating they think the product is worth just about the same as one designed in Munich, Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, or wherever Lexus is designed. They proclaim they are as good (and quietly they say they may be even better). They took government's money, got the government to force the debt collectors to take pennies on the dollar (even though legally they were entitled to more, at least more than the union funds received), all in name of "we will be different now". BTW, they all (just like others) always beg everybody to send a "completely and fully, unequivocally, without reservation, 10/10, actually 12/10, satisfied" surveys, because nothing else will do. So why shouldn't one actually expect perfection? Because we all know it's wink, wink? Their commercials and websites don't say wink wink, we didn't mean that.
BTW, perfection would be car not stalling and working just like all other cars do. But well, we all know, once in a while s...t happens, so that's what the warranty service is for - to reinstate the "perfect". Decent service is check it out and believe the customer. "Cadillac -level" service should be when there there is code, keep it overnight, check it in the morning, afternoon, in rain and in sunshine, low pressure high pressure. Call the factory, call the radio, call your doctor. Call Dr. Phil, perhaps he knows. Call Mary Barra, or at least her assistant. Call other dealers. Then it's perfection. You do that all and fix the car, then you can call yourself Cadillac.
GG, Can't you get a limo to the airport and back? This is a great opportunity for them to have your car for a full week. If the fools can't have it up and running in a week, then that would be pretty strong evidence the lemon law should kick in.
If you exchange cars they will probably make you sign off that they are no longer responsible, and you have used up your warranty.
Getting a ride to the airport is actually a great option, you will know one way or the other when you get back whether the car is running properly, and it will look really good if you go to arbitration.
Keep in mind too, states like Ohio often make the manufacturer pay double or triple damages to make them tow the line. Leaving the car with them for a week is the best thing you can do...if you can get to the airport and back...those clowns should drive you there.
I also don't see why they haven't gone for a ride with you, or a mechanic drive it while you are with him. Once my BMW dealer ran out of loaners and they offered a rental, because they get good deals it was like $12 a day or something.
AB....you'd have to ask Cadillac aboutthe loaner vehicle. I offered them several days I am traveling. They can have the car to do whatever they want with it. I'm headed to Milwaukee (drive) and from there, I fly to Austin. I then fly back to Milwaukee (where I am planning to spend the weekend in Chicago and then back home to Cincinnati.
They don't want to do that. They want to give me a loaner for a couple of days and then bring the loaner back. I don't know if they can diagnose it in that amount of time, let alone fix it. They reqlly aren't making much of an effort to fix the issues.
In brief....as they are want to do, they want to half [non-permissible content removed] it, and stall to keep me frustrated and at bay until they wear me down. It's how they work.
You gave him a pass for counter tops and decking? Now if it had been vacuum cleaners or dishwashers that might be different.
Verizon Wireless must be the most incompetent people selling cell phones. All I wanted to do is replace phones. No contract. Once they threw in all that went with a contract I was "no, thanks, we'll pay retail for the phones." That went down with a couple of excruciating visits where this young lady could spout meaningless gibberish at you faster thank I've ever heard. Everything about monthly bill. Nothing about what the cost ends up being. Finally on the next trip we say just sell us the phone. They don't have it.
Get home and try to order them online but it keeps trying to put me into a plan. So I call. It was the most frustrating sales experience I think I've ever been through. Way worse than the CX5 salesman. An hour and a half on the phone and the order wasn't complete because they needed and "agree to the terms" checkoff, except there was no way to do that. Several calls later the guy says it went through - but I never did actually accept the terms. I'll know it worked if the phones show up Tuesday or Wednesday.
I'd go through all the details but once is enough.
On the better news side, my daughter is feeling better and seems to be recovering. I've got her going to her doctor and an orthopedist. She's going to be ok.
@fezo , what phone were you trying to get from Verizon? There are other ways to get a phone than from Verizon. I have found that the level of service that you get from an employee at the Verizon store can vary widely, from completely competent to completely incompetent.
I was with Verizon, under contract, for better than 20 years. Last month, I dropped that, and went prepaid. I will save about $100 per month. If you’re not trying to go with the latest, greatest smartphone (iPhone 6, etc) there are some very good choices these days in mid-range phones. Last month you could pick up an LG G2 from Best Buy for $149, a truly great deal.
I am sticking with the Verizon network. From my experience, they truly do have the best network. Verizon prepaid is costing me $49 a month with taxes, about $14 more per month than Cricket (on the AT&T) network. But the peace of mind from being on the most extensive network is worth the slight additional cost, at least to me.
And my hopes for a speedy recovery to your daughter.
AB....you'd have to ask Cadillac aboutthe loaner vehicle. I offered them several days I am traveling. They can have the car to do whatever they want with it. I'm headed to Milwaukee (drive) and from there, I fly to Austin. I then fly back to Milwaukee (where I am planning to spend the weekend in Chicago and then back home to Cincinnati.
They don't want to do that. They want to give me a loaner for a couple of days and then bring the loaner back. I don't know if they can diagnose it in that amount of time, let alone fix it. They reqlly aren't making much of an effort to fix the issues.
In brief....as they are want to do, they want to half [non-permissible content removed] it, and stall to keep me frustrated and at bay until they wear me down. It's how they work.
@graphicguy , here is what I would do. I would bet that Cadillac offers free towing. Call that 800 number (should be in your owner’s manual). Have them pick up the car from your house and deliver it to the dealer. Don’t even call the dealer.
When / if the dealer service department calls you, tell them to keep it until it’s fixed. Period. Don’t lose your temper, don’t yell, don’t curse. Just tell them you will not take it back until it’s fixed.
Seeing the car sitting in your driveway is just going to aggravate you, increase your level of frustration. Get it out of sight, then do your best to forget about it. Go on your trip, go about your life.
Think about it from the viewpoint of the judge / arbitration panel. You want to be seen as having given them every possible opportunity to fix the problem. The greater the number of days that the car has spent at the dealer service department, the stronger your case looks.
Since the car has a steering issue and the dealer does not believe it is serious enough to ground the vehicle...then the ultimate virtue is to slam the car into a concrete wall. But be warned karma is a "beach."
They can do whatever they want. I still have a job and running around to do. I will not let their incomptence and disinterest interfere with any of that.
I'll wait them out. They can't irritate me any more than they have already. Lawyer said any expenses I incur he will ask that I be compensated, if they want to take it that far.
Heading to Enterprise now to pick up a $20/day special. That will work until this is resolved.
GG is quite capable of dealing with this issue with Cadillac. Whatever his decision might be and whatever course of action he may take, we just need to be supportive of his approach. If he needs our advice, I know he'll ask us for that input.
Right now, he has decided to go the route of Lemonizing his CTS. He's contacted Cadillac Consumer Affairs and the Better Business Bureau to begin the process. He's already consulted with his attorney who owes him a few favors.
GG, if you need any more advice, just ask. In the meantime, good luck with your approach to solving the problems with your CTS. We're all with you on this!
Since the car has a steering issue and the dealer does not believe it is serious enough to ground the vehicle...then the ultimate virtue is to slam the car into a concrete wall. But be warned karma is a "beach."
I guess all this talk about Cadillac CTS put a CTS ad right under your last post bwia.
New 2014 Cadillac ATS for Sale in New Hampshire at Fairfield's Cadillac Buick GMC
This New Radiant Silver Metallic 2014 Cadillac ATS 2.0L I4 RWD Luxury with a 2.0L 4 cyls engine and Automatic 6-Speed transmission is for sale at Fairfield's Cadillac Buick GMC in Keene, NH.
nice looking car. I have to go to Keene in 2 weeks. Maybe I'll check it out! Though darned thing is about to be 2 MY old. so probably not as good a price as it seems!
I assume that RWD in NH (especially this winter) makes it a tough sell.
On, the phone - it's a Samsung s5. Would have gone with the 6 but it has shorter battery life and a non-replaceable battery. Best Buy has them cheap but tied to a Verizon contract. I have Verizon out of contract and like it that way. $30 less a month and an extra gig of data.
Finally have the police report. As near as I can tell the F-150 that hit her was being driven by the owner's daughter's boyfriend. The only thing I know for sure is the driver's a jackass. Their insurance is Progressive.
I drove around most of the day in that thing and it's still quite good. My mechanic has a body shop friend who he says does great work (he showed me an example - his wife's Fit) and is reasonable enough that he expects if the insurance totals it the guy will come under the payoff. Hope he's right. That would be a piece of good news.
My daughter is a little better each day but doesn't have the orthopedist appointment until late next week.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
how does it work on a total if you want it? Do they offer you $X and they take the car, and give you the option of taking $X-Y plus you keep the car (meaning you effectively buy it back from them for $Y)?
Just wanted to let you guys know that my Grandmother died on Monday. She lived a very long, full life. We just celebrated her 98th birthday on April 22.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Comments
One new discovery I didn't mention. The Mazda has rain sensitive wipers. This was a perfect day for that coming home. Varying degrees of on and off drizzle.
Rain sensing wipers are a terrific feature. I have 2 settings - default and increased sensitivity for drizzle. Then, I still have manual settings for low, medium and high speeds. I use the feature all the time down here during rainy season which starts June 1st.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Given the lease deals, he has settled on an Infiniti Q40 AWD with Moonroof and Nav. Heck of a lot of car for $300/month including 9.8% tax and no money down, if we can land on that. We are close.
This, too, shall pass.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Technology is nice but only when they work flawlessly. I was reading in the news that a guy was able to take temporary control of a plane while in flight by tampering with the plane's entertainment system under the seat. And in an auto related story they showed that a car was completely taken over by remote control.
So, I was wondering, do you have incompatible electronics in your car, or could it be a neighbor's kid unintentionally sabotaging your car? I would run that scenario by your dealer and ask them to reprogram the computers to factory setting. If that does not work, then you a have a real lemon on your hands---and in that case when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
Sometimes the injuries don't show up until days later. Stiffness sometimes goes away after awhile though.
HOpe it all works out. It seems the victim is always worse off than the perpetrator.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Not really sure what the issues are. Last car I turned wrenches on was a 25 year old Mustang track beast, with a carburator and totally mechanical linkages for steering. So, these cars are a world away from that.
Computer issue? I suppose anything is possible. Incompatible electronics? The only thing I plug into it is my iPhone to listen to my music through CUE. Surprisingly, that works relatively well for the most part. Every once in awhile CUE gets confused and doesn't list the correct tack information. And, the voice recognition, although one of the best I've used, still could use some work. That's it as far as electronics that I plug into the car. I could overlook that. But, given Cadillac's attitude, those become just two of the many issues the car has.
Is the steering and stalling computer related? I have no idea. But, since two dealers claim there are no codes the computer shows, I'll assume it's something else. The stalling? There are 3 things an engine needs to run....air, fuel and spark. I'm using nothing but Top Tier fuel, so I'll rule that out. Lack of (or poor) spark would likely cause a misfire and throw a code, so that's not happening. To the best of my knowledge, there's plenty of air getting to the motor, so that's likely out, too. Even if a fuel injector is bad, I would think that a code would show that.
So, maybe it's the ECU itself that's bad. Possibility.
Power steering? It's electrical. It comes and goes (just like the stalling). Again, if the mechanical portion was bad, it would be a constant problem. Although it doesn't happen all the time, it does happen with a fair amount of regularity, that I believe there's something that's causing the the communication between the steering wheel input to be interrupted or disrupted to the power steering pump. What that is? I don't know. It's nothing on my end that would cause that, though. Again, perhaps something is wrong with the ECU. given they've already replaced the power steering pump.
But, here's the kicker, the car isn't showing any codes, so that's where they tell me they can't fix it. If I could do my amateurish diagnosis above, then I would think Cadillac, who knows more about their cars than I do, would be able to follow that same line of thinking, too.
I suppose I'm getting some traction after filing with the BBB and contacting the NHTSB given I started getting phone calls last night from GM directly (not Cadillac, but GM). I explained the issues probably 3 times to different people yesterday. One lady stated...."so the dealers told you the car was operating as designed?"
"Nope...no one told me that because the car certainly DOES NOT operate as designed. They said they couldn't fix it because the car didn't show a code to tell them what to fix."
Shortly after that, the dealer service manager called me and wanted me to bring the car back in. For what, I don't know given his staff were the ones who told me that not only could they not diagnose the problem, but they couldn't fix it, either. He wanted me to give the dealership another shot so they could keep it a few days. As I told him, I would drop it off today but am leaving for a business trip tomorrow and wouldn't be back until late next week. That was a "non-starter" since he said he could not let me have a loaner car for that long.
OK>...back to square one then.
GM people called me back, wanting to know what I wanted them to do. I told them to buy the car back. They asked if they could give me another car, if that would suffice. No...not after the service debacle I've had with the current one.
They're supposed to get back to me.
Meanwhile, my lawyer owes me a couple of favors so he is sending a letter re-emphasizing the safety issues with the car and the remedy I'm seeking.
We'll see how this ends up. At some point, I'm going to have to rent a car for awhile as I'm not driving the CTS. I think they'll try to stall me. But, now I'm resolved. Looked at a 220K mile Civic for sale last night. Rusty, seats are sagging as is the headliner, but seems to run OK. He wants $1,500. I offered him $750, cash on the spot. He almost bit on it. But said he wanted to see if he got a better offer over the next couple of days. If not, he said it's mine. At that price, I think I could probably sell it for what I paid for it a few months down the road after this gets sorted out. That would help as I could wait indefinitely for this to get resolved.
My guess, they won't buy back until it goes in again, and they somehow get higher end (factory?) engineers involved to really look into it.
If I had to bet, I would take bad ecu in some form, or something related like a bad ground. Not of corse test I know what the heck I am talking about!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
IMHO, the dealer can't fix something they have not seen happen or has a code. They can't just throw parts at it hoping it will fix the problem. Hence that's why they want you to leave it with them.
Since you are going out of town, leave it with them and ask for a loaner until you go away.
If they aren't being compensated to look at anything other than what codes are telling them, and they aren't getting compensation for a loaner car for me to use for a week, I don't have any faith they're going to make any more progress than they already have.
They have thrown parts at the problem. They replaced the power steering pump. Clearly, they didn't test it after they put the pump in. They would have felt the "ratcheting" action in the steering wheel and noticed something was amiss.
As the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression. I've given them several chances, and they've mostly failed every step of the way.
IMHO, people on this board will accept nothing less than perfection. Talks of lemon law and buyback after one issue, getting attorneys involved, et al is jut too much at this point. Give them a chance to make it right.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
What's the magic number of times to fix a problem? Once? Twice? Is it when the steering goes out and I hit the car traveling in the other direction? Or, do I wait until I'm on the interstate going 65 and have the car stall, losing my steering and wiping out a slew of vehicles? How many dealers should I have to take it to?
How should I interpret their seeming ineptness. What should I think when they tell me they can't fix the problem...MORE THAN ONCE? Should I take it to the dealer again and have them tell me it's fixed, only to find out it isn't? They've done that to me, too.
Should I leave it with them a day, a week, a month? Should I go ahead a rent a car while they have mine in the farage so I can continue with my work, my personal life? Until maybe they find the cause, or maybe not?
How much money should I have spent on a car to get reliable service from it? $20K? $40K? $60K? Or, should I spend even more? Would spending more get me a reliable car? Or, at least one where the manufacturer and dealer don't pretend like my problems are minor and not worth their best effort to fix them?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
According to the state of Ohio, the dealer has 3 chances to fix it:
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Individuals-and-Families/Consumers/Consumer-Tips/Consumer-Tips-Auto/Lemon-Laws
Does the steering completely fail or do you just lose power steering. If the former, jump and down. If the latter, you should be able to still drive it to a safe stop. If you car stalls, you shouldn't lose the power steering still it's electric.
It seems in this area that people prefer to yell and scream first and then complain why the dealer/retailer/person is being unfair to them. I like to take the honey and sugar approach to things. It works better and I tend to get my way more often then.
I know I am in the minority here so I think it's time to go back to lurking. Peace out.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Rob, take into consideration GG's state of mind - he is furious and venting that anger and frustration. This is no time for OBJECTIVITY - it is a time for EMPATHY!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
So maybe they finally fix root cause. If not, they have no more legs to stand on regarding a buyback.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I've given two different dealers multiple opportunities to fix the problem. They didn't.
I gave Cadillac corporate the opportunity to authorize whatever it took took to fix it. They reefused that opportunity, unless I get my own transportation on my own dime. Which isn't exactly what they lead you to believe when you read their warranty terms.
They can stand their ground. I can dig in my heels, too.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I know in my past experience dealing with a service issue with GM corporate, I got a loaner/rental vehicle while mine was in the shop.Their policy was that It was on their dime until the parts arrived and were installed. GM parts do not arrive quickly in my experience. I cannot imagine that they could diagnose the issue and get parts that quickly anyway.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2. They aren't curious, which parts, either.
3. They want him gone, they act like he's imagining things. They treat him like a pest.
4. It also appears that all their "factory certified" technician can do he knows how to plug the computer into a USB port and read messages.
5. Provided that this is all they could do, they don't appear to be interested in asking for a consultation by a factory technician that may know a bit more than just plugging the computer.
6. They even think a bit longer loaner for a customer that is in obvious distress is such a hardship that they'd rather say no, can do.
By the way, this is CADILLAC. Not Hyundai, not Toyota, not Chevy, or even Buick. CADILLAC - name that in their mind is supposed to evoke thoughts of highest quality, competence, top notch service. A brand that puts stickers on their new product indicating they think the product is worth just about the same as one designed in Munich, Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, or wherever Lexus is designed. They proclaim they are as good (and quietly they say they may be even better). They took government's money, got the government to force the debt collectors to take pennies on the dollar (even though legally they were entitled to more, at least more than the union funds received), all in name of "we will be different now". BTW, they all (just like others) always beg everybody to send a "completely and fully, unequivocally, without reservation, 10/10, actually 12/10, satisfied" surveys, because nothing else will do. So why shouldn't one actually expect perfection? Because we all know it's wink, wink? Their commercials and websites don't say wink wink, we didn't mean that.
BTW, perfection would be car not stalling and working just like all other cars do. But well, we all know, once in a while s...t happens, so that's what the warranty service is for - to reinstate the "perfect". Decent service is check it out and believe the customer. "Cadillac -level" service should be when there there is code, keep it overnight, check it in the morning, afternoon, in rain and in sunshine, low pressure high pressure. Call the factory, call the radio, call your doctor. Call Dr. Phil, perhaps he knows. Call Mary Barra, or at least her assistant. Call other dealers. Then it's perfection. You do that all and fix the car, then you can call yourself Cadillac.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
If you exchange cars they will probably make you sign off that they are no longer responsible, and you have used up your warranty.
Getting a ride to the airport is actually a great option, you will know one way or the other when you get back whether the car is running properly, and it will look really good if you go to arbitration.
Keep in mind too, states like Ohio often make the manufacturer pay double or triple damages to make them tow the line. Leaving the car with them for a week is the best thing you can do...if you can get to the airport and back...those clowns should drive you there.
I also don't see why they haven't gone for a ride with you, or a mechanic drive it while you are with him. Once my BMW dealer ran out of loaners and they offered a rental, because they get good deals it was like $12 a day or something.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
They don't want to do that. They want to give me a loaner for a couple of days and then bring the loaner back. I don't know if they can diagnose it in that amount of time, let alone fix it. They reqlly aren't making much of an effort to fix the issues.
In brief....as they are want to do, they want to half [non-permissible content removed] it, and stall to keep me frustrated and at bay until they wear me down. It's how they work.
@fezo , what phone were you trying to get from Verizon? There are other ways to get a phone than from Verizon. I have found that the level of service that you get from an employee at the Verizon store can vary widely, from completely competent to completely incompetent.
I was with Verizon, under contract, for better than 20 years. Last month, I dropped that, and went prepaid. I will save about $100 per month. If you’re not trying to go with the latest, greatest smartphone (iPhone 6, etc) there are some very good choices these days in mid-range phones. Last month you could pick up an LG G2 from Best Buy for $149, a truly great deal.
I am sticking with the Verizon network. From my experience, they truly do have the best network. Verizon prepaid is costing me $49 a month with taxes, about $14 more per month than Cricket (on the AT&T) network. But the peace of mind from being on the most extensive network is worth the slight additional cost, at least to me.
And my hopes for a speedy recovery to your daughter.
@graphicguy , here is what I would do. I would bet that Cadillac offers free towing. Call that 800 number (should be in your owner’s manual). Have them pick up the car from your house and deliver it to the dealer. Don’t even call the dealer.
When / if the dealer service department calls you, tell them to keep it until it’s fixed. Period. Don’t lose your temper, don’t yell, don’t curse. Just tell them you will not take it back until it’s fixed.
Seeing the car sitting in your driveway is just going to aggravate you, increase your level of frustration. Get it out of sight, then do your best to forget about it. Go on your trip, go about your life.
Think about it from the viewpoint of the judge / arbitration panel. You want to be seen as having given them every possible opportunity to fix the problem. The greater the number of days that the car has spent at the dealer service department, the stronger your case looks.
Since the car has a steering issue and the dealer does not believe it is serious enough to ground the vehicle...then the ultimate virtue is to slam the car into a concrete wall. But be warned karma is a "beach."
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'll wait them out. They can't irritate me any more than they have already. Lawyer said any expenses I incur he will ask that I be compensated, if they want to take it that far.
Heading to Enterprise now to pick up a $20/day special. That will work until this is resolved.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Right now, he has decided to go the route of Lemonizing his CTS. He's contacted Cadillac Consumer Affairs and the Better Business Bureau to begin the process. He's already consulted with his attorney who owes him a few favors.
GG, if you need any more advice, just ask. In the meantime, good luck with your approach to solving the problems with your CTS. We're all with you on this!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
New 2014 Cadillac ATS for Sale in New Hampshire at Fairfield's Cadillac Buick GMC
This New Radiant Silver Metallic 2014 Cadillac ATS 2.0L I4 RWD Luxury with a 2.0L 4 cyls engine and Automatic 6-Speed transmission is for sale at Fairfield's Cadillac Buick GMC in Keene, NH.
New 2014 Cadillac ATS 2.0L I4 RWD Luxury
Fairfield's Price: $29,990
MSRP $41,990
Fairfield's Price $29,990
Savings $12,000
That sounds like a great deal....if they would honor the warranty!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I assume that RWD in NH (especially this winter) makes it a tough sell.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
We appear to have lost Richard for good; I'd hate to see OF follow.
It might be planting season for OF.
Richard got busy with other stuff.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Finally have the police report. As near as I can tell the F-150 that hit her was being driven by the owner's daughter's boyfriend. The only thing I know for sure is the driver's a jackass. Their insurance is Progressive.
I drove around most of the day in that thing and it's still quite good. My mechanic has a body shop friend who he says does great work (he showed me an example - his wife's Fit) and is reasonable enough that he expects if the insurance totals it the guy will come under the payoff. Hope he's right. That would be a piece of good news.
My daughter is a little better each day but doesn't have the orthopedist appointment until late next week.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD