Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

explorerx4

GG, Since the BBB is involved, I guess you are going for arbitration?
BTW, you should file a complaint with the NHTSA.
There's even an NHSTA attorney's name in AB's post, if you want to send a letter.
It was pretty easy to find his .gov address.

driver100

ab348 said:

I still do not understand exactly what has happened in GG's case and can only offer that it is inconsistent with the experience I have had with GM as a customer since 2003. However, for his and his attorney's edification, given that it appears he has a safety issue, I offer the following article from Automotive News that appeared today. Perhaps a call to NHTSA is in order.

===

GM to stay under strict U.S. oversight
Mike Colias
Automotive News | May 21, 2015 - 4:07 pm EST


The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Thursday -- on the anniversary of the original consent order -- that the "unprecedented" oversight of how GM handles potential safety issues would continue for at least one more year.

NHTSA said it extended the oversight because it "has proven to be a productive and effective tool to proactively and expeditiously address potential safety-related defects."

“

A.

Good detective work ab. I hope GG gets that...it seems it would be really worthwhile to contact NHTSA as soon as possible, they'd probably like to hear about GG's problems.

driver100

It's been nice knowing you all, seems I am going to be collecting about $80 million soon!

(Reads in part)
Hello friend,
My name is Mr. Adesuwa Abati, a cousin to Dr. Reuben Abati, Senior Special Adviser (Media and Publicity) to President Goodluck Jonathan GCFR, of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I pray this letter meets you in good health. I was directed to contact you by Dr. Abati confidentially through this letter,

.Our goal is to be prepared. Consequently the total sum of $250million USD cash has been deposited with a security firm here in Accra Ghana by me as a special agent. In furtherance to this, you will be rewarded with 30% of the $250million, while 5% will be set aside to cover all administrative expenses both parties will incur dur
If you are interested to partner with us in this urgent transaction, please kindly provide me with your mobile telephone number so that we can discuss more of this issue and move into action immediately. Thank you.
Yours sincerely,
Mr. Adesuwa Abati
Special Agent

Goodluck Jonathan???????

graphicguy

Thanks everyone for following me through this. Already filed with BBB. Also had my lawyer sending a letter to Cadillac stating my intentions, the reason I am intending to do what I'm doing, and the resolution I'll accept in order to terminate any other actions. I'm sure they're quaking in their boots.

Anyway, got a voice mail from someone claiming to be in Cadillac operations wishing to resolve the matter, asking for me to contact him. Unfortunately, he didn't leave his phone number. Could this get any funnier?

I'm going to try to have a great long weekend. Wish the same for all of my friends here at Edmunds.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Thanks everyone for following me through this. Already filed with BBB. Also had my lawyer sending a letter to Cadillac stating my intentions, the reason I am intending to do what I'm doing, and the resolution I'll accept in order to terminate any other actions. I'm sure they're quaking in their boots.

Anyway, got a voice mail from someone claiming to be in Cadillac operations wishing to resolve the matter, asking for me to contact him. Unfortunately, he didn't leave his phone number. Could this get any funnier?

I'm going to try to have a great long weekend. Wish the same for all of my friends here at Edmunds.

Have a good long weekend GG.

You may want to make a copy of that phone message, that is hilarious. Who trains their customer service staff? If Cadillac wants to play with the big boys they may have to have better training for their mechanics/technicians and their customer service people.

stever

Doubtful that Caddy will work with you now that the lawyers are involved, unless they get right to your suggested resolution. There's probably a whole separate bureaucracy for that scenario though.

@driver100, let me know if you need directions to the nearest Western Union so you can wire the "customs" fee to Mr. Abati.

Mr_Shiftright

@Driver----hey, wait a minute....30% + 5% expenses split by both parties equals 81,250,000. They're trying to CHEAT you!

jayrider

driver100 said:

It's been nice knowing you all, seems I am going to be collecting about $80 million soon!

(Reads in part)
Hello friend,
My name is Mr. Adesuwa Abati, a cousin to Dr. Reuben Abati, Senior Special Adviser (Media and Publicity) to President Goodluck Jonathan GCFR, of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I pray this letter meets you in good health. I was directed to contact you by Dr. Abati confidentially through this letter,

.Our goal is to be prepared. Consequently the total sum of $250million USD cash has been deposited with a security firm here in Accra Ghana by me as a special agent. In furtherance to this, you will be rewarded with 30% of the $250million, while 5% will be set aside to cover all administrative expenses both parties will incur dur
If you are interested to partner with us in this urgent transaction, please kindly provide me with your mobile telephone number so that we can discuss more of this issue and move into action immediately. Thank you.
Yours sincerely,
Mr. Adesuwa Abati
Special Agent

Goodluck Jonathan???????

Just send him your SS# and banking numbers and cut through all the red tape.

andres3

If rental cars are the responsibility of the customer Cadillac is the only luxury car maker I know that would do such a thing.  Again it's why I stated in the past the only way the big three can gain wise customers back is by running a warranty that has punitive punishments the more warranty visits you have,  and guarantees a like loaner vehicle or better.

andres3

graphicguy said:

BTW....here's the difference between my BMW experiences and my Cadillac experiences.

My last BMW (335ix coupe) came with a cradle that fit in the console between the front seats. It held the iPhone and supposedly charged it and boosted the phone's antenna power....allegedly.

I had an iPhone 4 then and plugged it into this cradle. Well, I had been driving all day and making/receiving phone calls via the BMW's blue tooth. Everything was fine until after a few hours of driving, the iDrive showed the phone's battery depleted. Strange, it's supposed to be charging.

Open up the console to remover the phone and it's literally too hot to touch. I get home, park the car and turn it off for a couple of hours. Come back to it and the phone, while still quite warm, has cooled off enough to remove.

I take it to the Apple store and they tell me it suffered from some sort of voltage incompatibility...that it got so hot that even the SIM card melted. $700 later, I have a new phone from Apple.

Next day I go to BMW and tell them what happened. I show them the receipt and explain what happened. Not only did they give me $700 on the spot for a new phone, but they also give me another $400 for the cradle which was an option that came with the car. No "ifs, ands or buts".

Another time there was mark on the BMW leather where I got in and out, where my leather belt kept rubbing on the seat back. Did they say it was my fault? No! That it was "wear and tear"? No! They just replaced the seat no questions asked.

Cadillac? Let's see ho far we can string our customer along, deny there is an issue. Then fail to fix the care and pretend like nothing's wrong. This is 3 different dealers that have done this. So, this is Cadillac that's doing this.

What you describe above is the difference in cultures from a REAL car company to a disposable "temp" car maker subsidized by the government and paid to survive by taxpayers. Like a BIC razor, GM cars are purposely designed, built, and engineered to be short-term temporary uses, and to fail right after the warranty expires. Sometimes they miss the mark and what is happening to you happens before the warranty is out, and they just act like spoiled rotten children.

Standing behind your product when something fails is the key! That shows the truth of whether a company is in this for the long term, or just for the free ride from taxpayers. Did they just go after the new sucker born every minute, or did they just manage to sell a bill of goods.

With GG; I"m afraid it's the last one. The sales guy/owner/manager would say anything to make a sale, and a bill of goods was sold.

As I've said in the past, put a punitive warranty in writing if you are serious about having changed:
1 warranty visit = loaner car guaranteed.
2nd warranty visit (for any reason) - guaranteed loaner car for as long as it takes and $50 payable to owner as refund.
3rd warranty visit - loaner car guaranteed and $100 refunded.
4th warranty visit - loaner car guaranteed and $250 refunded.
5th warranty visit 1,000 dollars and up.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

@Driver----hey, wait a minute....30% + 5% expenses split by both parties equals 81,250,000. They're trying to CHEAT you!

Why pinch pennies when I am getting $80 mill I always say............it's still a very generous offer I just hope I don't have to put President Goodluck Jonathan GCFR up in my home for a few weeks.

dino001

andres3 said:

As I've said in the past, put a punitive warranty in writing if you are serious about having changed:
1 warranty visit = loaner car guaranteed.
2nd warranty visit (for any reason) - guaranteed loaner car for as long as it takes and $50 payable to owner as refund.
3rd warranty visit - loaner car guaranteed and $100 refunded.
4th warranty visit - loaner car guaranteed and $250 refunded.
5th warranty visit 1,000 dollars and up.

This would be something to see. One could scale it to a car pricing, or play around with numbers and types of warranty claims, but it's a great idea, if you are a customer. Of course that will never happen, but one could always propose something. There are other brands that don't have faultless vehicle. Mercedes has occupied near bottom of Consumer Report reliability pylon for ages. However, they make it work, because if you do have problems, they'll do everything to fix them and accommodate you in the meantime. Mike's problems with injectors were dragging on, but the response was oh so different than those yahoos at Cadillac dealership.

BTW, those punitive terms of warranty sound nice, but the dealer's and rep's response may be even more acrimony, if the incentives behind the scenes were made such that the staff will try to send you away denying anything is wrong rather than fix the car. In that system, Graphic would be shot by a sharp shooter from a guard tower for just coming within half mile of the dealership.

It really all boils down to company cultures. Sell the product and try to save as much money as possible post-sale, regardless of consequences, or stand behind it and treat the post-sale service as a grounds the next sale. It's a business model of "one time use" vs. "repeat relationship". There are plenty of companies thriving on the first model - but that's usually until they run out of suckers (which can take some time). Then they pack their bags, change the name and start over. It may work in some industries, but it doesn't work in automotive businesses - but that doesn't seem to stop them from trying.

driver100

dino001 said:

andres3 said:

It really all boils down to company cultures. Sell the product and try to save as much money as possible post-sale, regardless of consequences, or stand behind it and treat the post-sale service as a grounds the next sale. It's a business model of "one time use" vs. "repeat relationship". There are plenty of companies thriving on the first model - but that's usually until they run out of suckers (which can take some time). Then they pack their bags, change the name and start over. It may work in some industries, but it doesn't work in automotive businesses - but that doesn't seem to stop them from trying.

Just before GM went down I believe they came out with 10 year 100,000 mile warranties, if I remember correctly.

I kept thinking, of course they can do that, if they sell enough cars they can carry on for a few more years, if they go under thay won't have to honor the warranty anyway.

They had nothing to lose at that point, and may get some cash in their hands to keep going.

Now, they are back to that game, try to get some cash in hand, try to minimize any outflow by ignoring warranty claims.

That customer service rep who didn't leave a number makes me wonder too, instead of "Customer Service" it should be called "Frontline for Stonewalling Customer Issues".

abacomike

If I am not mistaken, I believe Cadillac does provide loaner cars when an in-warranty vehicle needs to be left at the service department overnight. But GG is requesting a loaner car for 6-7 days because he will be out of town and cannot return the loaner until he returns. The dealer stated that they can provide a loaner for 2 days, but that was all.

I have to assume that Cadillac's offer of a loaner for 2 days so they could keep the car and drive it in order to detect the issues/complaints GG has had regarding the steering and stalling problems was a reasonable offer at that point in time (which it is not at this point in time). Remember, Cadillac does not know what the problems are nor how to fix them at this point in time. Once the root or source of the problems are identified, I am sure, if necessary, they would provide GG with a loaner vehicle for as long s it took to repair/correct the problems, including the issue with his Voice Control. I don't blame GG for renting his own car - he needs transportation that is reliable and safe for the 6-7 days he will be out of town.

I am, by no means, on the side of the dealer or the manufacturer here - you all know how I feel about dealerships and manufacturers - their watchword is "avoidance"! You all know what I went through with my car being built and the attitude of the manufacturer as regards "my" issues and problems. In that case, it was the dealership that retained me as a customer, not the manufacturer.

If this was not the Memorial Day Weekend (service departments are closed, not the showrooms), things would have been smoother, in my opinion. But the attitude of the dealer is unforgivable in my opinion. They know they have a very upset, disgruntled, frustrated and unhappy customer.

When I was in the business, I did everything I could to accommodate a customer who was having issues with a recently purchased vehicle. If I need to provide a loaner for 2 weeks, I provided it, whether I had to absorb the cost at the dealership level or not. My customers were my bread and butter as were their families and friends. But it is obvious something has gone awry here. Why would a Cadillac dealer cause so my anguish? Why didn't the dealership take a calm, polite and professional approach rather than an adversarial approach? I don't know the answers to this since I was not a party or an observer each time GG went into the dealer's service department. I can only say that something smells rotten here, and only GG has the ability to deal with it. We are only supporters of GG. We can give him advice and empathize with him, but we really can't solve his problem(s).

andres3

dino001 said:

andres3 said:

As I've said in the past, put a punitive warranty in writing if you are serious about having changed:
1 warranty visit = loaner car guaranteed.
2nd warranty visit (for any reason) - guaranteed loaner car for as long as it takes and $50 payable to owner as refund.
3rd warranty visit - loaner car guaranteed and $100 refunded.
4th warranty visit - loaner car guaranteed and $250 refunded.
5th warranty visit 1,000 dollars and up.

This would be something to see. One could scale it to a car pricing, or play around with numbers and types of warranty claims, but it's a great idea, if you are a customer. Of course that will never happen, but one could always propose something. There are other brands that don't have faultless vehicle. Mercedes has occupied near bottom of Consumer Report reliability pylon for ages. However, they make it work, because if you do have problems, they'll do everything to fix them and accommodate you in the meantime. Mike's problems with injectors were dragging on, but the response was oh so different than those yahoos at Cadillac dealership.

BTW, those punitive terms of warranty sound nice, but the dealer's and rep's response may be even more acrimony, if the incentives behind the scenes were made such that the staff will try to send you away denying anything is wrong rather than fix the car. In that system, Graphic would be shot by a sharp shooter from a guard tower for just coming within half mile of the dealership.

It really all boils down to company cultures. Sell the product and try to save as much money as possible post-sale, regardless of consequences, or stand behind it and treat the post-sale service as a grounds the next sale. It's a business model of "one time use" vs. "repeat relationship". There are plenty of companies thriving on the first model - but that's usually until they run out of suckers (which can take some time). Then they pack their bags, change the name and start over. It may work in some industries, but it doesn't work in automotive businesses - but that doesn't seem to stop them from trying.

Chrysler and GM have tried the "renaming" thing to some degree:

1. Neon = PT Cruiser = Caliber = Dart
2. Cavalier = Cobalt = Cruze
3. GMAC = ALLY
4. Oldsmobile/Plymouth/Saturn/Pontiac/Saab were the sacrificial lambs.
5. Ford made Mazda and Volvo worse and then left.
6. Old GM = New GM (except to US Judges when it comes to Liability Lawsuits LOL)

As to my warranty idea, as with all contracts, it requires both parties to enter the agreement in good faith, and then to honor it with good faith (unlike the Insurance industry). There was some talk of Insurance being a gamble; it certainly is; if only for what the odds will be your rightful claim will be denied and/or at least delayed (in my case 14 months and counting). When your claim gets denied your are out however many months/years of premium you paid them, in addition to the losses they won't cover that they should. You have that much less in the bank to hire a lawyer, and they count on that. Even if you hire a good lawyer, you could get a bad judge. Risks with everything in life.

andres3

driver100 said:

dino001 said:

andres3 said:

Just before GM went down I believe they came out with 10 year 100,000 mile warranties, if I remember correctly.

I kept thinking, of course they can do that, if they sell enough cars they can carry on for a few more years, if they go under thay won't have to honor the warranty anyway.

They had nothing to lose at that point, and may get some cash in their hands to keep going.

Now, they are back to that game, try to get some cash in hand, try to minimize any outflow by ignoring warranty claims.

That customer service rep who didn't leave a number makes me wonder too, instead of "Customer Service" it should be called "Frontline for Stonewalling Customer Issues".

Chrysler 1-Upped GM with a LIFETIME warranty before they got bailed out. I remember telling people to ask the dealerships who's "lifetime" that was based on Also there was fine print exclusions galore.

The gov't made the unprecedented move of "backing" these warranties similar to backing FANNIE MAE and FREDDY MAC. That made me especially upset as I felt I'd be paying for more Chrysler bum transmissions and head gaskets even though I smartly avoided them.

andres3

My warranty idea may never happen, but I'm sure there are thousands out there just like me; that won't touch a new Chrysler with a ten foot pole (or any Big 3 car for that matter) absent those types of warranty terms and conditions.

So new customer sales will never happen if the warranty doesn't happen. And that's OK, eventually they will go out of business if we stop bailing them out.

driver100

abacomike said:

If I am not mistaken, I believe Cadillac does provide loaner cars when an in-warranty vehicle needs to be left at the service department overnight. But GG is requesting a loaner car for 6-7 days because he will be out of town and cannot return the loaner until he returns. The dealer stated that they can provide a loaner for 2 days, but that was all.

I have to assume that Cadillac's offer of a loaner for 2 days so they could keep the car and drive it in order to detect the issues/complaints GG has had regarding the steering and stalling problems was a reasonable offer at that point in time (which it is not at this point in time). Remember, Cadillac does not know what the problems are nor how to fix them at this point in time. Once the root or source of the problems are identified, I am sure, if necessary, they would provide GG with a loaner vehicle for as long s it took to repair/correct the problems, including the issue with his Voice Control. I don't blame GG for renting his own car - he needs transportation that is reliable and safe for the 6-7 days he will be out of town.

I am, by no means, on the side of the dealer or the manufacturer here - you all know how I feel about dealerships and manufacturers - their watchword is "avoidance"! You all know what I went through with my car being built and the attitude of the manufacturer as regards "my" issues and problems. In that case, it was the dealership that retained me as a customer, not the manufacturer.

If this was not the Memorial Day Weekend (service departments are closed, not the showrooms), things would have been smoother, in my opinion. But the attitude of the dealer is unforgivable in my opinion. They know they have a very upset, disgruntled, frustrated and unhappy customer.

When I was in the business, I did everything I could to accommodate a customer who was having issues with a recently purchased vehicle. If I need to provide a loaner for 2 weeks, I provided it, whether I had to absorb the cost at the dealership level or not. My customers were my bread and butter as were their families and friends. But it is obvious something has gone awry here. Why would a Cadillac dealer cause so my anguish? Why didn't the dealership take a calm, polite and professional approach rather than an adversarial approach? I don't know the answers to this since I was not a party or an observer each time GG went into the dealer's service department. I can only say that something smells rotten here, and only GG has the ability to deal with it. We are only supporters of GG. We can give him advice and empathize with him, but we really can't solve his problem(s).

abacomike said:

If I am not mistaken, I believe Cadillac does provide loaner cars when an in-warranty vehicle needs to be left at the service department overnight. But GG is requesting a loaner car for 6-7 days because he will be out of town and cannot return the loaner until he returns. The dealer stated that they can provide a loaner for 2 days, but that was all.

I am, by no means, on the side of the dealer or the manufacturer here - you all know how I feel about dealerships and manufacturers - their watchword is "avoidance"! You all know what I went through with my car being built and the attitude of the manufacturer as regards "my" issues and problems. In that case, it was the dealership that retained me as a customer, not the manufacturer.

First, the dealer may have a rule about giving out loaner cars for 2 days, but any good business is flexible. They would understand GG can't drive the car the way it is, they have an opportunity to work on his car for about 5 days, it is actually a great opportunity to try and solve the problem.

I was listening to a PR guy talking about the Takata airbags. He said the company is handling it very poorly. First they denied there was a problem, then they said it only happened in Southern States....now they'll work with the government. The PR guy said their big problem is they didn't take responsibility from the start. These days that is Rule #1 when there is a problem. Consumers do not want to buy from companies that don't take responsibility. GG's case is a perfect example of a company that doesn't take responsibility for their product.

bwia

abacomike said:

If I am not mistaken, I believe Cadillac does provide loaner cars when an in-warranty vehicle needs to be left at the service department overnight. But GG is requesting a loaner car for 6-7 days because he will be out of town and cannot return the loaner until he returns. The dealer stated that they can provide a loaner for 2 days, but that was all....

I can only say that something smells rotten here, and only GG has the ability to deal with it. We are only supporters of GG. We can give him advice and empathize with him, but we really can't solve his problem(s).

You may be right about a free loaner, but according to the 2015 Cadillac Limited Liability Warranty Handbook, that expense is the responsibility of the customer.

As to the dealership, I believe they were very reasonable in their approach. In the first instance, I believe they sold GG a CTS at a $10,000 or more discount; then, I believe they switched his original CTS for no additional cost. And now this. Put yourself in the dealer's shoes, how much of a loss can one endure to make a customer happy?

That reminds me of a telecom company that dropped some of their customers because these customers filed too many frivolous complaints. Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

andres3

bwia said:

abacomike said:

You may be right about a free loaner, but according to the 2015 Cadillac Limited Liability Warranty Handbook, that expense is the responsibility of the customer.

As to the dealership, I believe they were very reasonable in their approach. In the first instance, I believe they sold GG a CTS at a $10,000 or more discount; then, I believe they switched his original CTS for no additional cost. And now this. Put yourself in the dealer's shoes, how much of a loss can one endure to make a customer happy?

That reminds me of a telecom company that dropped some of their customers because these customers filed too many frivolous complaints. Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

The price of the car is not relevant IMO as it didn't come with the disclaimer the discount was provided to compensate for selling a lemon.

I don't know the history of why they switched his original CTS for no additional cost; so I can't comment on that.

The dealers loss can be limited to the amount of time they spend figuring out how incompetent they are at not being able to fix his car, and then providing a full refund of GG's money (perhaps less .25 per mile driven). I think whatever they charge customers for extra miles on leases would be fair. Then they would be back to square one EVEN STEVEN!

stever

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

andres3

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

Sounds like a mutual breakup in the end; only the dealership said I'm dumping you first

Why manufacturer's don't weigh the 1-5 scale appropriately I don't understand; I've heard the anything but a 5 (top score) is bad thing from my service advisers.

In my experience companies that believe a customer is a lost cause do so prematurely, do it for short term gain, are shortsighted, and it is often a bad decision. Are there bad customers; sure. I bet you companies with good customer service reputations have "fired" a lot less customers than companies with bad service reputations.

Michaell

andres3 said:

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

Sounds like a mutual breakup in the end; only the dealership said I'm dumping you first

Why manufacturer's don't weigh the 1-5 scale appropriately I don't understand; I've heard the anything but a 5 (top score) is bad thing from my service advisers.

In my experience companies that believe a customer is a lost cause do so prematurely, do it for short term gain, are shortsighted, and it is often a bad decision. Are there bad customers; sure. I bet you companies with good customer service reputations have "fired" a lot less customers than companies with bad service reputations.

Let's not even get started on the issues that are the satisfaction surveys - both for sales as well as for service.

Yes, anything less than a 5 (or a 10) is considered a failing grade for them. Does not promote honesty and valid feedback that the dealer could use to improve their customer experiences.

abacomike

Driver, they don't have 5-6 days to diagnose the problems.  Service is closed Sunday and Monday and most service departments have less skilled personnel working on Saturdays (oil changes, tire rotations, filters, belts - low tech work).  So the 3-day weekend is lost for detailed diagnostics.

dino001

Michaell said:

Let's not even get started on the issues that are the satisfaction surveys - both for sales as well as for service.

Yes, anything less than a 5 (or a 10) is considered a failing grade for them. Does not promote honesty and valid feedback that the dealer could use to improve their customer experiences.

Surveys are not designed for business to get better. They are not provided for a customer to give an opinion. They are done, so marketing departments can say they have 120% customer satisfaction. The customers' role is to provide that data and shut up about any other issues.

gmcustsvc

Hi graphicguy,

We've reached out to you via private message. Please feel free to check at your earliest convenience. Also, we can be contacted via email at socialmedia@gm.com. We hope to hear from you soon.

Kind Regards,

Eddie A.
GM Customer Care

ab348

This is certainly an interesting situation. If you review the postings from the time of purchase, GG tells a story of having a surprising encounter at the dealer which led to a mea culpa about past treatment in the case of his mom and a bend-over-backwards offer to buy the original CTS. That was followed in December by the discovery of a problem with the original vehicle that resulted in the dealer or Cadillac or both offering, unprompted, to replace his car which was bought as a demo with a brand-new vehicle with no miles, at no cost to him. Up until recently when this new problem appeared GG was very complimentary to both the dealer and Cadillac.

Despite the beating Cadillac's reputation has taken here over the last few days, it is important to keep in mind how responsive they have also been until now. I didn't realize until a recent post that this is the 3rd vehicle (4th really, if we include the original CTS) that GG will have gone through the return process with. But I don't doubt the problems he has identified with the current CTS are there, either. It seems... complicated.

abacomike

gmcustsvc said:

Hi graphicguy, We've reached out to you via private message. Please feel free to check at your earliest convenience. Also, we can be contacted via email at socialmedia@gm.com. We hope to hear from you soon. Kind Regards, Eddie A. GM Customer Care

Nice to know GM Customer care monitors this Forum.  Good for you Eddie A.  Good for you!!! 

isellhondas

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

Don't get me started on surveys!

I really can't blame that Volvo Dealer for not wanting to take a change on getting trashed again.

Had that job taken an extra hour because of running into trouble do you think that customer would have
objected paying an additional hour's labor?

I usually got top survey scores but from time to time I would get a bad one...not often.

When that happened, I had no desire to ever deal with that customer again. I would rather lose a sale than
risk a bad survey. With Honda it was pass/fail on a scale of 1-5. We had to explain to our customers that giving a four was like giving a zero.

andres3

ab348 said:

This is certainly an interesting situation. If you review the postings from the time of purchase, GG tells a story of having a surprising encounter at the dealer which led to a mea culpa about past treatment in the case of his mom and a bend-over-backwards offer to buy the original CTS. That was followed in December by the discovery of a problem with the original vehicle that resulted in the dealer or Cadillac or both offering, unprompted, to replace his car which was bought as a demo with a brand-new vehicle with no miles, at no cost to him. Up until recently when this new problem appeared GG was very complimentary to both the dealer and Cadillac.

Despite the beating Cadillac's reputation has taken here over the last few days, it is important to keep in mind how responsive they have also been until now. I didn't realize until a recent post that this is the 3rd vehicle (4th really, if we include the original CTS) that GG will have gone through the return process with. But I don't doubt the problems he has identified with the current CTS are there, either. It seems... complicated.

What was the problem with the first CTS that caused a second to be required? Which party was at-fault for that? How long if any time or mileage, did he drive the first?

A company can't rest on "we did our part already for this guy" mentality. That's the mentality Circuit City used and that landed them into extinction. Just because you bend over backwards a time or two doesn't excuse abandoning your work or product later on. If you don't want to deal with a "difficult" customer (and that's arguable) your best course of action as a company isn't firing the customer, but simply stop making them be a customer by issuing a full refund and buyback.

A pizzeria near me messed up my pizza order. I put my foot down and told them they got it wrong and needed to fix it somehow. They decided to make me a complimentary pizza when I wanted it, but missed a topping the 2nd time around (a different one this time), and so I told him again. He said he'd make another pizza, but that this was the "last" one! I was thinking, it was HIS/Manager's choice to resolve the problem by making more pizzas, I'd of been just as happy with a refund the first time around and he'd of never had to make more pizzas for me.

ab348

isellhondas said:

I really can't blame that Volvo Dealer for not wanting to take a change on getting trashed again.

Had that job taken an extra hour because of running into trouble do you think that customer would have
objected paying an additional hour's labor?

Whoever dealt with that fellow at the counter when presenting him with the bill was slow on the uptake. They should have instantly responded "We had 2 technicians working simultaneously on different things on your car!".

driver100

abacomike said:

Driver, they don't have 5-6 days to diagnose the problems.  Service is closed Sunday and Monday and most service departments have less skilled personnel working on Saturdays (oil changes, tire rotations, filters, belts - low tech work).  So the 3-day weekend is lost for detailed diagnostics.

Mike, I thought GG was going away from about a Thursday to a Thursday, something like that. Even with a holiday in there it would give the dealer a few days to work on his car. When we had problems with the Volvo the dealer drove the Volvo over a weekend to drive it under real conditions. I am sure that could have benefitted everyone.

driver100

gmcustsvc said:

Hi graphicguy,

We've reached out to you via private message. Please feel free to check at your earliest convenience. Also, we can be contacted via email at socialmedia@gm.com. We hope to hear from you soon.

Kind Regards,

Eddie A.
GM Customer Care

This is an interesting development. Nice surprise if this really gets something accomplished!

graphicguy

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

They can fire me. I'm OK with that. I guess the question would be the age old one.....did I quite them first,or did they fire me first.

About warranty. Don't forget, I gave Cadillac 3 attempts over two dealers to fix the problem. Once they put in a new power steering unit which took them 8a days to installn(because the first time, it threw a code and told them to replace the power steering unit), That did not fix the problem. The other two times, they said no code was given so the ycouldn't fix it. That's the same thing they said about the car stalling out.

So, it's not like I gave them one shot to fix it, and then demanded a loaner car for as long as I wanted.

By the way, it's comfortably cool and nice in Chicago right now. WE're going for drinks and then to kyfdx's recommendation, Rosebuds, to eat authentic Italian.

I'll check in to see what you guys are doing over the weekend.

driver100

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

He was told the work would take 2.5 hours and was charged for that, and the work only took 1.5 hours.

Almost all garages do the work and charge what the charge rate is for a job...usually calculated as the average time to do a job. Since the guy complained the work happened to be done faster than the schedule says is not the dealers fault. I can understand why he was asked not to come back.

driver100

graphicguy said:

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

They can fire me. I'm OK with that. I guess the question would be the age old one.....did I quite them first,or did they fire me first.

About warranty. Don't forget, I gave Cadillac 3 attempts over two dealers to fix the problem. Once they put in a new power steering unit which took them 8a days to installn(because the first time, it threw a code and told them to replace the power steering unit), That did not fix the problem. The other two times, they said no code was given so the ycouldn't fix it. That's the same thing they said about the car stalling out.

So, it's not like I gave them one shot to fix it, and then demanded a loaner car for as long as I wanted.

By the way, it's comfortably cool and nice in Chicago right now. WE're going for drinks and then to kyfdx's recommendation, Rosebuds, to eat authentic Italian.

I'll check in to see what you guys are doing over the weekend.

GG, Be sure to read the post sent by GM Customer Service...they are contacting you.

Let us know what they have to say....we're all waiting.

Enjoy Chicago, sounds like a great getaway.

ab348

andres3 said:

What was the problem with the first CTS that caused a second to be required? Which party was at-fault for that? How long if any time or mileage, did he drive the first?

Probably best for GG to respond. It had front end suspension/steering issues, after I believe he had the car for about 6 weeks. Cause IIRC was undetermined but Cadillac took responsibility and offered a swap for a new, identically-equipped car.

A company can't rest on "we did our part already for this guy" mentality. That's the mentality Circuit City used and that landed them into extinction. Just because you bend over backwards a time or two doesn't excuse abandoning your work or product later on. If you don't want to deal with a "difficult" customer (and that's arguable) your best course of action as a company isn't firing the customer, but simply stop making them be a customer by issuing a full refund and buyback.

The "We've done enough" attitude was not what I was suggesting. There has been a lot of slagging of Cadillac and GM on here the last few days that seemed a bit one-sided. I was simply reminding some of the history here. I am trying to put myself in GG's shoes and have considerable empathy for his situation, as I have been there myself. It seems to be a very complicated situation that none of us other than GG can probably fully appreciate.

explorerx4

I don't want speak for anyone else, but I think we all want GG to be happy with his Cadillac.
Did some creeping on the web and couldn't find the same issue, so maybe it's an anomaly. Cadillac is GM's premier product in the US, so there should be some extra consideration for their clients when they have a problem.
The most interesting part, which we will never know, is how it came to be that GM Customer Service decided to post here.
Now that I think about this a bit more, the most interesting part will be the resolution.

dino001

driver100 said:

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

He was told the work would take 2.5 hours and was charged for that, and the work only took 1.5 hours.

Almost all garages do the work and charge what the charge rate is for a job...usually calculated as the average time to do a job. Since the guy complained the work happened to be done faster than the schedule says is not the dealers fault. I can understand why he was asked not to come back.

You're missing the point. He gave them a good survey on all accounts, but put in writing his objection on pricing, which might have meant one position not getting top score and one negative comment. This precipitated a failed grade from the manufacturer and disavowement from the dealer. This means the system is screwed up and ridiculous, Volvo is nit interested in actual feedback, but rather in puninitive actions, the dealer overreacts by blatantly demanding top grades no matter what. Who benefits from this? Not customers.

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

stever said:

bwia said:

Perhaps the dealership views GG as a lost cause and as a result are willing to accept the reputational risk.

You may be on to something. Businesses occasionally fire customers. For example:

Denied service because of a survey!

He was told the work would take 2.5 hours and was charged for that, and the work only took 1.5 hours.

Almost all garages do the work and charge what the charge rate is for a job...usually calculated as the average time to do a job. Since the guy complained the work happened to be done faster than the schedule says is not the dealers fault. I can understand why he was asked not to come back.

You're missing the point. He gave them a good survey on all accounts, but put in writing his objection on pricing, which might have meant one position not getting top score and one negative comment. This precipitated a failed grade from the manufacturer and disavowement from the dealer. This means the system is screwed up and ridiculous, Volvo is nit interested in actual feedback, but rather in puninitive actions, the dealer overreacts by blatantly demanding top grades no matter what. Who benefits from this? Not customers.

So, the point is the survey doesn't do what it was intended to do....is that the point? If it is, I agree. What I am saying is that the customer unfortunately thought the high price was the fault of the dealer, and it wasn't. Perhaps, if the customer voiced his complaint to the service manager the service manager could have explained how pricing is done.

I agree completely though, the survey caused the manufacturer to go after the service department, when they did nothing wrong. Everyone loses, because of a screwy system. The survey was not read and interpreted......it is a terrible system. Did I get it?

btw....from my Audi experience the dealer did everything they could do....50% off parts, 10% off labor...I think they knew it was a faulty part (clutch).
Audi Corporate, wouldn't admit responsibility. The poor dealer, who was trying to please and cultivate a customer loses. Corporate doesn't really care about their franchisees, they just want to keep them in line.....and that's what the survey does.

ab348

@driver100, your post reminded me of something I meant to ask you. I remember you saying that you had bought AudiCare with the A4, so you wouldn't be paying out of pocket for service visits. Did that just go away when you traded the car, or does the prepaid service go with the car to be used by the next owner?

cdnpinhead

Surveys are beyond useless unless everyone starts at the midpoint (3 or 5, depending on whether it's a 5 or 10 point scale) as average, or what was expected. If it was better, then it might go up to a 7 or 8. If whatever happened regarding a particular question drove you into orgasmic delight, then it might be a 9 or 10.

The thing is perverted beyond belief. Customer feedback is useful, but only if it's honest.

To quote Charles Schultz, "or we could all flap our arms and fly to the moon."

dino001

I am generally no longer interested in filling surveys. No point.

explorerx4

Generally, my service experiences have been good, so I try to help out the SA's by giving top marks and adding a comment mentioning something good about them.

driver100

ab348 said:

@driver100, your post reminded me of something I meant to ask you. I remember you saying that you had bought AudiCare with the A4, so you wouldn't be paying out of pocket for service visits. Did that just go away when you traded the car, or does the prepaid service go with the car to be used by the next owner?

ab....the Audicare can't be passed on. I don't think I have ever come out ahead when i buy a prepackage deal. You do save quite a bit if you actually get frequent service. I am pretty sure the Mercedes pre-bought program can be passed on.

I think I could come out with Mercedes, since I can get service in the US or Canada, and my mileage is pretty high.

driver100

dino001 said:

I am generally no longer interested in filling surveys. No point.

dino001 said:

I am generally no longer interested in filling surveys. No point.

Our Mercedes salesman has sold us 2 cars in 8 months...and they have been exceptional....I give them 10 out of 10 for everything, I want them to get credit for being so good.

Also, it could help us if we buy cars in the future, they know they will get a good score...that can't hurt.

At least I might get somethinjg out of the stupid survey..........

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

Generally, my service experiences have been good, so I try to help out the SA's by giving top marks and adding a comment mentioning something good about them.

Same here.

nelsonf

Whoever dealt with that fellow at the counter when presenting him with the bill was slow on the uptake. They should have instantly responded "We had 2 technicians working simultaneously on different things on your car!".

You took the words right out of my mouth! Another option would be to wait till noon or so to call the customer.

When I was a service advisor a long time ago, we had a couple techs that would regularly beat the flat rate, and would book 70 to 80 hours a week in good weeks.

abacomike

dino001 said:

I am generally no longer interested in filling surveys. No point.

Dino, I fill out all the surveys I get for one reason - if I am dissatisfied with a sales or service experience, I intend to let the manufacturer know about it.  The dealership already knows I was dissatisfied - I don't hide my feelings or judgements about my car experiences.

But I also want to let the manufacturer know when my dealership and its employees go above and beyond normal expectations in servicing or selling me my car.

I just received a survey from MBUSA about my sales and service experiences over the past 10 years - the letter I received was from the VP for Consumer Relations.  I slammed them for the horrible way I was treated by their Montvale NJ headquarters personnel.  I told them "point blank" that if it were not for the dealership going to bat for me, I would never buy another Mercedes Benz.

Did I ever hear back from them?  NO!  I didn't expect them to respond because they sure don't want to open up a hornets nest.  If they had responded to my survey, I would have changed my opinion of MBUSA.  Fat chance of that ever happening.  But at least they know that a very good customer of MB vehicles is not very happy with his experiences with their Consumer Affairs Division.  They also know how well I was treated by my dealership and its personnel.

Maybe someday, I will be surprised by a phone call or email from MBUSA - but not in my lifetime it would appear.

stickguy

I'm right around the corner from MB HQ right now in Montcalm.b want me to stop n and say hi for you?