Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

One thing I was very lucky about in about 50 years of working....I could always drive to work and there was a place to park. I would hate to commute by train or bus. My driving time is important to me.....kind of personal time to reflect and plan.

graphicguy

Although I traveled extensively, I was WFH for 25+ years. People would ask me how I did it. It’s just like going to your remote office, only it’s a room in your home. Mine was (still is) a dedicated room. It has my desk, my laptop hooked up to a monitor, a printer (with a fax, no less). Had a land line, but only for the fax. That gets keboshed next week. Business mobile phone different from my personal mobile phone, with a different phone number.

Discipline is what makes it work. I got into the office around 7:30 a.m. Took a break for lunch. Back in the office until 6-ish, sometimes later, if I had overseas meetings I had to participate in.

Son knew not to bother me during work hours. I didn’t empty the laundry, or dishwasher during work. I didn’t turn on a TV or radio. Anyone coming to the front door that wasn’t FedEx or UPS were ignored during working hours.

I showered and dressed to go into the office (may have been shorts and a shirt, but no sweat suits).

The good news, I didn’t fight traffic every day. The bad news, I couldn’t just walk away when the phone rang. I had a bad habit of answering it, regardless the time of day.

driver100

ab348 said:

Longish piece on the CBC site about the Hyundai/Kia engine problems. They seem to have handled this quite badly given the scope of the problem.

I recorded that program. They showed Hyundai/Kias suddenly catching on fire for no apparent reason, and some people had cars that suddenly stalled on them...the engine died. And from what I gather, they talked to Hundai/Kia and got nowhere...they deny responsibility and won't issue a recall.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Longish piece on the CBC site about the Hyundai/Kia engine problems. They seem to have handled this quite badly given the scope of the problem.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-car-recall-investigation-1.5918348?fbclid=IwAR39dmEmZUlex5VpOhXngTwV7WXFrlVUHgXWWVBeMblraO2zq_4uwLkAoA4

I never had any trouble with my Kia. No recalls either. I remember reading they had some problems with metal filings ruining the engine but I’m still puzzled by the fires. In one of those pictures in the article it looks like one car burnt up on the back bumper. How is that an engine fire?

I did get a confusing letter from Kia corporate that advised changing the oil every 3750 miles because American driving was “severe”.

driver100

One sales rep made a cute video of him working at home. He was in his bathrobe, there were empty pizza boxes and crushed beer cans on his desk, papers everywhere. He would call a customer and try to get a date with the receptionist...it was hilarious!

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

More shenanigans from the old guys.

The same team that wrecked the company car wash may have destroyed a new diesel pick up. Seems one of them filled it with gas instead of diesel. Thanks to the marvels of modern computer safety systems the truck wouldn’t start, probably because the anti-knock sensor detected something was amiss. It had to be towed away.

Don't they give some kind of I.Q. Test to new employees?
This could easily be a $10000 repair.
Evidently, this happens more often than anyone might think.
Why oh why, don't they make the filler tank and the nozzle on the gas and diesel pump so they don't fit into each other....even I can figure that they should do that?

Well the diesel fuel nozzle is larger than the gas one so it won't fit in the fuel door of a gas car. But the gas filler nozzle will fit in the diesel vehicle since it is smaller. The only other solution would be to make them different shapes but then they would be harder to get it in the cars filler neck and people will complain about that.

Diesel could be square or have wings on the side of it so you can't jam it into a gasser but fits a diesel.
This is easily solvable.....................

As I said before, that would require the diesel nozzle to be perfectly aligned with the vehicles filler neck resulting in people fiddling with the nozzle to get it to fit. This fiddling could also cause damage to the nozzle as well as the vehicles filler neck.

It could be done. There could also be a sensor in the filler neck that could immediately notify the idiot.. err operator that they are putting the wrong fuel in.

Please explain how in the world will a sensor in the filler neck be able to notify the idiot that he is putting in the wrong fuel when the fuel type is clearly labeled on the button you push to select the fuel type if not also on or near the nozzle to be used and that doesn't alert them. Look at the picture below, even if you put the gas nozzle in your vehicle you should be able to push the Diesel button to start fueling. And in that case it wouldn't work as the pump won't pump gas if you push diesel. Just remember you can get to the point where you can't save someone from themselves. After that all you can do is upload the results to YouTube.

I’m no scientist but I’m sure there enough of a chemical difference (PH, etc??) that a sensor could pick up on.

My point is is that if you are putting gas in a diesel vehicle you are either oblivious to what fuel your vehicle takes or you are to unaware that your are using the nozzle for gas and pushing a button that's not labeled "diesel". If that's a case then a sensor warning you likely will not work.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

@tjc78 ....and another thing is it would be fairly easy for someone who isn't knowledgeable to press a button.....maybe they think "Diesel" has extra power. I bet a fairly large percentage of people don't know what 87. 89 93 mean.....remember there are several youtubes with people try to put gas into their Prius.

You do realize that a Prius is a gas powered vehicle.

stickguy

Farmer, when I had the Elantra the oil change interval in the manual (I don't think it had a service monitoring system, just a light tied to miles or time) it was 3,750 severe or 6,500 normal. And their severe schedule was what is probably normal for most people. I was not taking it in that often (not that I had the car all that long). Not sure on my Sonata but I am sure I did that one more like 5-6,500

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

I never had any trouble with my Kia. No recalls either. I remember reading they had some problems with metal filings ruining the engine but I’m still puzzled by the fires. In one of those pictures in the article it looks like one car burnt up on the back bumper. How is that an engine fire?

You may be one of the lucky ones that got a good one, who knows. As for the recall, maybe they just haven't gotten around to your model/year yet - note the spotty pattern of recalls the article discusses. Re. the picture (I'm guessing you're referring to the Tucson one at the end of the piece) that appears to have burned from front to back, going through the interior and was just reaching the rear end before being extinguished. We have had several of these stories here in our media of local people with bad engines who were not covered under warranty, plus fires (and also another issue, exploding glass sunroofs in Santa Fe models). It does not make me want to shop those models.

The problem is serious but all manufacturers can have serious problems because cars are complex. The real issue the way I see it is how H/K have responded. Lots of foot dragging, denials, etc. I have no doubt that it would be very expensive to deal with all of those things at once, but the black eye to their image may prove to be even more costly. A few of these types of pieces on the big US networks with the resultant social media spread afterwards could be them serious harm in the marketplace. I wonder if it is a cultural thing with top management back home.

kyfdx

Diesel: Look for the green handle, right?

No... BP stations now have the gas nozzle in their corporate green, and the diesel handle is black. :@

tjc78

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

More shenanigans from the old guys.

The same team that wrecked the company car wash may have destroyed a new diesel pick up. Seems one of them filled it with gas instead of diesel. Thanks to the marvels of modern computer safety systems the truck wouldn’t start, probably because the anti-knock sensor detected something was amiss. It had to be towed away.

Don't they give some kind of I.Q. Test to new employees?
This could easily be a $10000 repair.
Evidently, this happens more often than anyone might think.
Why oh why, don't they make the filler tank and the nozzle on the gas and diesel pump so they don't fit into each other....even I can figure that they should do that?

Well the diesel fuel nozzle is larger than the gas one so it won't fit in the fuel door of a gas car. But the gas filler nozzle will fit in the diesel vehicle since it is smaller. The only other solution would be to make them different shapes but then they would be harder to get it in the cars filler neck and people will complain about that.

Diesel could be square or have wings on the side of it so you can't jam it into a gasser but fits a diesel.
This is easily solvable.....................

As I said before, that would require the diesel nozzle to be perfectly aligned with the vehicles filler neck resulting in people fiddling with the nozzle to get it to fit. This fiddling could also cause damage to the nozzle as well as the vehicles filler neck.

It could be done. There could also be a sensor in the filler neck that could immediately notify the idiot.. err operator that they are putting the wrong fuel in.

Please explain how in the world will a sensor in the filler neck be able to notify the idiot that he is putting in the wrong fuel when the fuel type is clearly labeled on the button you push to select the fuel type if not also on or near the nozzle to be used and that doesn't alert them. Look at the picture below, even if you put the gas nozzle in your vehicle you should be able to push the Diesel button to start fueling. And in that case it wouldn't work as the pump won't pump gas if you push diesel. Just remember you can get to the point where you can't save someone from themselves. After that all you can do is upload the results to YouTube.

I’m no scientist but I’m sure there enough of a chemical difference (PH, etc??) that a sensor could pick up on.

My point is is that if you are putting gas in a diesel vehicle you are either oblivious to what fuel your vehicle takes or you are to unaware that your are using the nozzle for gas and pushing a button that's not labeled "diesel". If that's a case then a sensor warning you likely will not work.

I hear you. It’s certainly not something any of us would do... but it gets done often enough that IMO there could be a mechanism to make it completely idiot proof. Think of a three prong electric outlet. You can’t put that in wrong even if you tried.

They could incorporate a valve that shuts off the moment the sensor recognizes the wrong fuel, cutting off the pump.

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

More shenanigans from the old guys.

The same team that wrecked the company car wash may have destroyed a new diesel pick up. Seems one of them filled it with gas instead of diesel. Thanks to the marvels of modern computer safety systems the truck wouldn’t start, probably because the anti-knock sensor detected something was amiss. It had to be towed away.

Don't they give some kind of I.Q. Test to new employees?
This could easily be a $10000 repair.
Evidently, this happens more often than anyone might think.
Why oh why, don't they make the filler tank and the nozzle on the gas and diesel pump so they don't fit into each other....even I can figure that they should do that?

Well the diesel fuel nozzle is larger than the gas one so it won't fit in the fuel door of a gas car. But the gas filler nozzle will fit in the diesel vehicle since it is smaller. The only other solution would be to make them different shapes but then they would be harder to get it in the cars filler neck and people will complain about that.

Diesel could be square or have wings on the side of it so you can't jam it into a gasser but fits a diesel.
This is easily solvable.....................

As I said before, that would require the diesel nozzle to be perfectly aligned with the vehicles filler neck resulting in people fiddling with the nozzle to get it to fit. This fiddling could also cause damage to the nozzle as well as the vehicles filler neck.

It could be done. There could also be a sensor in the filler neck that could immediately notify the idiot.. err operator that they are putting the wrong fuel in.

Please explain how in the world will a sensor in the filler neck be able to notify the idiot that he is putting in the wrong fuel when the fuel type is clearly labeled on the button you push to select the fuel type if not also on or near the nozzle to be used and that doesn't alert them. Look at the picture below, even if you put the gas nozzle in your vehicle you should be able to push the Diesel button to start fueling. And in that case it wouldn't work as the pump won't pump gas if you push diesel. Just remember you can get to the point where you can't save someone from themselves. After that all you can do is upload the results to YouTube.

I’m no scientist but I’m sure there enough of a chemical difference (PH, etc??) that a sensor could pick up on.

My point is is that if you are putting gas in a diesel vehicle you are either oblivious to what fuel your vehicle takes or you are to unaware that your are using the nozzle for gas and pushing a button that's not labeled "diesel". If that's a case then a sensor warning you likely will not work.

I hear you. It’s certainly not something any of us would do... but it gets done often enough that IMO there could be a mechanism to make it completely idiot proof. Think of a three prong electric outlet. You can’t put that in wrong even if you tried.

They could incorporate a valve that shuts off the moment the sensor recognizes the wrong fuel, cutting off the pump.

You seem to be over complicating the thing and how do you keep it from shutting off other pumps? But why stop there? Why not equip every car with a technician highly trained in pumping gas to do it for you?

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

roadburner

driver100 said:

@tjc78 ....and another thing is it would be fairly easy for someone who isn't knowledgeable to press a button.....maybe they think "Diesel" has extra power. I bet a fairly large percentage of people don't know what 87. 89 93 mean.....remember there are several youtubes with people try to put gas into their Prius.

That’s because they still have IC engines.

roadburner

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

@tjc78 ....and another thing is it would be fairly easy for someone who isn't knowledgeable to press a button.....maybe they think "Diesel" has extra power. I bet a fairly large percentage of people don't know what 87. 89 93 mean.....remember there are several youtubes with people try to put gas into their Prius.

You do realize that a Prius is a gas powered vehicle.

What do you think?

roadburner

snakeweasel said:

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

I’ve mentioned this quote from Douglas Adams before:
“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”
Again, I believe that we interfere with the law of natural selection at our peril.
Seriously, does a society that needs to be warned that coffee is hot, razor blades are sharp, and that battery acid is not a beverage have any reasonable long-term hope of survival?

omarman

“Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.” (Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency)

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

some people adapt better than others. If you choose to do it, and set it up right, can work just fine.

If you work at home you should get dressed and basically try to keep regular working hours. I worked from home for 16 years...had a room set up as an office....nice tax break.
I liked it, but you have to be disciplined and family and friends have to know that is your WORK space.
It's all what you get used to.
We had sales meetings twice a year so I got to see the other reps then, 4 in Canada and about 20 U.S. reps.
What I really liked was - No Office Politics to worry about.

I bet you never had to worry about someone crashing your “office”.

Do you mean like your car is your office?

Yep, also called the chase van.

roadburner

As far as WFH goes, I ended up still working from the office; If I was at home I would inevitably get an email or phone call about a case where the file was at the office.
I haven’t seen the inside of a courtroom for going on one year- and that’s what I enjoyed the most- and it’s something that can’t be replicated by MS Teams, Skype, or Zoom. If I was in private practice I’d be seriously considering throwing in the towel.
As an elected official I don’t have that option, so I just keep plugging away- and doing the best job I can given the circumstances.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

Longish piece on the CBC site about the Hyundai/Kia engine problems. They seem to have handled this quite badly given the scope of the problem.

I recorded that program. They showed Hyundai/Kias suddenly catching on fire for no apparent reason, and some people had cars that suddenly stalled on them...the engine died. And from what I gather, they talked to Hundai/Kia and got nowhere...they deny responsibility and won't issue a recall.

And they accused the one guy of improper maintenance causing his car to catch fire parked in the concrete parking garage. Maybe he wrote down the oil change mileage wrong?

imidazol97

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

More shenanigans from the old guys.

The same team that wrecked the company car wash may have destroyed a new diesel pick up. Seems one of them filled it with gas instead of diesel. Thanks to the marvels of modern computer safety systems the truck wouldn’t start, probably because the anti-knock sensor detected something was amiss. It had to be towed away.

Don't they give some kind of I.Q. Test to new employees?
This could easily be a $10000 repair.
Evidently, this happens more often than anyone might think.
Why oh why, don't they make the filler tank and the nozzle on the gas and diesel pump so they don't fit into each other....even I can figure that they should do that?

Well the diesel fuel nozzle is larger than the gas one so it won't fit in the fuel door of a gas car. But the gas filler nozzle will fit in the diesel vehicle since it is smaller. The only other solution would be to make them different shapes but then they would be harder to get it in the cars filler neck and people will complain about that.

Diesel could be square or have wings on the side of it so you can't jam it into a gasser but fits a diesel.
This is easily solvable.....................

As I said before, that would require the diesel nozzle to be perfectly aligned with the vehicles filler neck resulting in people fiddling with the nozzle to get it to fit. This fiddling could also cause damage to the nozzle as well as the vehicles filler neck.

It could be done. There could also be a sensor in the filler neck that could immediately notify the idiot.. err operator that they are putting the wrong fuel in.

Please explain how in the world will a sensor in the filler neck be able to notify the idiot that he is putting in the wrong fuel when the fuel type is clearly labeled on the button you push to select the fuel type if not also on or near the nozzle to be used and that doesn't alert them. Look at the picture below, even if you put the gas nozzle in your vehicle you should be able to push the Diesel button to start fueling. And in that case it wouldn't work as the pump won't pump gas if you push diesel. Just remember you can get to the point where you can't save someone from themselves. After that all you can do is upload the results to YouTube.

I’m no scientist but I’m sure there enough of a chemical difference (PH, etc??) that a sensor could pick up on.

My point is is that if you are putting gas in a diesel vehicle you are either oblivious to what fuel your vehicle takes or you are to unaware that your are using the nozzle for gas and pushing a button that's not labeled "diesel". If that's a case then a sensor warning you likely will not work.

I hear you. It’s certainly not something any of us would do... but it gets done often enough that IMO there could be a mechanism to make it completely idiot proof. Think of a three prong electric outlet. You can’t put that in wrong even if you tried.

They could incorporate a valve that shuts off the moment the sensor recognizes the wrong fuel, cutting off the pump.

You seem to be over complicating the thing and how do you keep it from shutting off other pumps? But why stop there? Why not equip every car with a technician highly trained in pumping gas to do it for you?

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

I realize the rage is for big government to do everything, but there's a point where it needs to stop. We're there.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

More shenanigans from the old guys.

The same team that wrecked the company car wash may have destroyed a new diesel pick up. Seems one of them filled it with gas instead of diesel. Thanks to the marvels of modern computer safety systems the truck wouldn’t start, probably because the anti-knock sensor detected something was amiss. It had to be towed away.

Don't they give some kind of I.Q. Test to new employees?
This could easily be a $10000 repair.
Evidently, this happens more often than anyone might think.
Why oh why, don't they make the filler tank and the nozzle on the gas and diesel pump so they don't fit into each other....even I can figure that they should do that?

Well the diesel fuel nozzle is larger than the gas one so it won't fit in the fuel door of a gas car. But the gas filler nozzle will fit in the diesel vehicle since it is smaller. The only other solution would be to make them different shapes but then they would be harder to get it in the cars filler neck and people will complain about that.

Diesel could be square or have wings on the side of it so you can't jam it into a gasser but fits a diesel.
This is easily solvable.....................

As I said before, that would require the diesel nozzle to be perfectly aligned with the vehicles filler neck resulting in people fiddling with the nozzle to get it to fit. This fiddling could also cause damage to the nozzle as well as the vehicles filler neck.

It could be done. There could also be a sensor in the filler neck that could immediately notify the idiot.. err operator that they are putting the wrong fuel in.

Please explain how in the world will a sensor in the filler neck be able to notify the idiot that he is putting in the wrong fuel when the fuel type is clearly labeled on the button you push to select the fuel type if not also on or near the nozzle to be used and that doesn't alert them. Look at the picture below, even if you put the gas nozzle in your vehicle you should be able to push the Diesel button to start fueling. And in that case it wouldn't work as the pump won't pump gas if you push diesel. Just remember you can get to the point where you can't save someone from themselves. After that all you can do is upload the results to YouTube.

I’m no scientist but I’m sure there enough of a chemical difference (PH, etc??) that a sensor could pick up on.

My point is is that if you are putting gas in a diesel vehicle you are either oblivious to what fuel your vehicle takes or you are to unaware that your are using the nozzle for gas and pushing a button that's not labeled "diesel". If that's a case then a sensor warning you likely will not work.

I hear you. It’s certainly not something any of us would do... but it gets done often enough that IMO there could be a mechanism to make it completely idiot proof. Think of a three prong electric outlet. You can’t put that in wrong even if you tried.

They could incorporate a valve that shuts off the moment the sensor recognizes the wrong fuel, cutting off the pump.

You seem to be over complicating the thing and how do you keep it from shutting off other pumps? But why stop there? Why not equip every car with a technician highly trained in pumping gas to do it for you?

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

I realize the rage is for big government to do everything, but there's a point where it needs to stop. We're there.

I think we’re waaay past there.

cdnpinhead

This is most certainly true.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Farmer, when I had the Elantra the oil change interval in the manual (I don't think it had a service monitoring system, just a light tied to miles or time) it was 3,750 severe or 6,500 normal. And their severe schedule was what is probably normal for most people. I was not taking it in that often (not that I had the car all that long). Not sure on my Sonata but I am sure I did that one more like 5-6,500

The Soul say 7500 OCI which is way more than I would ever go. What was strange was that when I called Kia corporate to ask what their OCI was for synthetic I was told “same for both synthetic and conventional”. That made no sense to me as I think 5,000 on synthetic is more than enough. If it can’t go any further than cheaper conventional, what’s the point?

Some months later I asked a Kia service tech what he thought and he rolled his eyes and said 5,000 was fine.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

More shenanigans from the old guys.

The same team that wrecked the company car wash may have destroyed a new diesel pick up. Seems one of them filled it with gas instead of diesel. Thanks to the marvels of modern computer safety systems the truck wouldn’t start, probably because the anti-knock sensor detected something was amiss. It had to be towed away.

Don't they give some kind of I.Q. Test to new employees?
This could easily be a $10000 repair.
Evidently, this happens more often than anyone might think.
Why oh why, don't they make the filler tank and the nozzle on the gas and diesel pump so they don't fit into each other....even I can figure that they should do that?

Well the diesel fuel nozzle is larger than the gas one so it won't fit in the fuel door of a gas car. But the gas filler nozzle will fit in the diesel vehicle since it is smaller. The only other solution would be to make them different shapes but then they would be harder to get it in the cars filler neck and people will complain about that.

Diesel could be square or have wings on the side of it so you can't jam it into a gasser but fits a diesel.
This is easily solvable.....................

As I said before, that would require the diesel nozzle to be perfectly aligned with the vehicles filler neck resulting in people fiddling with the nozzle to get it to fit. This fiddling could also cause damage to the nozzle as well as the vehicles filler neck.

It could be done. There could also be a sensor in the filler neck that could immediately notify the idiot.. err operator that they are putting the wrong fuel in.

Please explain how in the world will a sensor in the filler neck be able to notify the idiot that he is putting in the wrong fuel when the fuel type is clearly labeled on the button you push to select the fuel type if not also on or near the nozzle to be used and that doesn't alert them. Look at the picture below, even if you put the gas nozzle in your vehicle you should be able to push the Diesel button to start fueling. And in that case it wouldn't work as the pump won't pump gas if you push diesel. Just remember you can get to the point where you can't save someone from themselves. After that all you can do is upload the results to YouTube.

I’m no scientist but I’m sure there enough of a chemical difference (PH, etc??) that a sensor could pick up on.

My point is is that if you are putting gas in a diesel vehicle you are either oblivious to what fuel your vehicle takes or you are to unaware that your are using the nozzle for gas and pushing a button that's not labeled "diesel". If that's a case then a sensor warning you likely will not work.

I hear you. It’s certainly not something any of us would do... but it gets done often enough that IMO there could be a mechanism to make it completely idiot proof. Think of a three prong electric outlet. You can’t put that in wrong even if you tried.

They could incorporate a valve that shuts off the moment the sensor recognizes the wrong fuel, cutting off the pump.

You seem to be over complicating the thing and how do you keep it from shutting off other pumps? But why stop there? Why not equip every car with a technician highly trained in pumping gas to do it for you?

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

In the days of full service gas you didn’t have to worry about stuff like that...or your oil level. Oh the good old days, you could be dumb as a rock and still be given a free glass tumbler.

tjc78

I am not saying I don’t agree with the fact that at some point you “can’t save everyone”

My point was that someone asked how it could be done and I gave an example (s)

When I ran the Planogram department for a retailer (micro space planning) the level of detail we had to provide was off the charts. Seeing the common sense mistakes that were made would have shocked you.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

Farmer, when I had the Elantra the oil change interval in the manual (I don't think it had a service monitoring system, just a light tied to miles or time) it was 3,750 severe or 6,500 normal. And their severe schedule was what is probably normal for most people. I was not taking it in that often (not that I had the car all that long). Not sure on my Sonata but I am sure I did that one more like 5-6,500

The Soul say 7500 OCI which is way more than I would ever go. What was strange was that when I called Kia corporate to ask what their OCI was for synthetic I was told “same for both synthetic and conventional”. That made no sense to me as I think 5,000 on synthetic is more than enough. If it can’t go any further than cheaper conventional, what’s the point?

Some months later I asked a Kia service tech what he thought and he rolled his eyes and said 5,000 was fine.

7,500 miles would be fine as well; used oil analysis indicated that a 10,000 mile interval was fine for the TGDI motor in my MS3- and it was running great when I sold it with 158,000 miles on the clock.

My son drives a 2009 328i. The car has been run on BMW TPT 5W-30 or BMW TPT 0W-30 since new- with a minimum OCI of 15,000 miles/12 months; here's what it looked like under the valve cover at 8 years/108,000 miles(and it's also still running strong):

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

I’ve mentioned this quote from Douglas Adams before:
“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”
Again, I believe that we interfere with the law of natural selection at our peril.
Seriously, does a society that needs to be warned that coffee is hot, razor blades are sharp, and that battery acid is not a beverage have any reasonable long-term hope of survival?

I’ve had coffee that wasn’t hot but tasted like battery acid.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

@tjc78 ....and another thing is it would be fairly easy for someone who isn't knowledgeable to press a button.....maybe they think "Diesel" has extra power. I bet a fairly large percentage of people don't know what 87. 89 93 mean.....remember there are several youtubes with people try to put gas into their Prius.

You do realize that a Prius is a gas powered vehicle.

What do you think?

I don't know what to think when someone mentions YouTube videos of people putting gas in a Prius.

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

I am not saying I don’t agree with the fact that at some point you “can’t save everyone”

My point was that someone asked how it could be done and I gave an example (s)

When I ran the Planogram department for a retailer (micro space planning) the level of detail we had to provide was off the charts. Seeing the common sense mistakes that were made would have shocked you.

They only way it could truly be done is to make every vehicle use the exact same fuel.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

I’ve mentioned this quote from Douglas Adams before:
“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”
Again, I believe that we interfere with the law of natural selection at our peril.
Seriously, does a society that needs to be warned that coffee is hot, razor blades are sharp, and that battery acid is not a beverage have any reasonable long-term hope of survival?

My favorite was a bag of peanuts I once saw that had the warning "May contain peanuts". I am still not sure what bothers me more, a warning that a bag of peanuts contains peanuts, or that the word "may" implies a possibility that the bag of peanuts doesn't contain any peanuts.

28firefighter

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

Farmer, when I had the Elantra the oil change interval in the manual (I don't think it had a service monitoring system, just a light tied to miles or time) it was 3,750 severe or 6,500 normal. And their severe schedule was what is probably normal for most people. I was not taking it in that often (not that I had the car all that long). Not sure on my Sonata but I am sure I did that one more like 5-6,500

The Soul say 7500 OCI which is way more than I would ever go. What was strange was that when I called Kia corporate to ask what their OCI was for synthetic I was told “same for both synthetic and conventional”. That made no sense to me as I think 5,000 on synthetic is more than enough. If it can’t go any further than cheaper conventional, what’s the point?

Some months later I asked a Kia service tech what he thought and he rolled his eyes and said 5,000 was fine.

7,500 miles would be fine as well; used oil analysis indicated that a 10,000 mile interval was fine for the TGDI motor in my MS3- and it was running great when I sold it with 158,000 miles on the clock.

My son drives a 2009 328i. The car has been run on BMW TPT 5W-30 or BMW TPT 0W-30 since new- with a minimum OCI of 15,000 miles/12 months; here's what it looked like under the valve cover at 8 years/108,000 miles(and it's also still running strong):

The N52 is rock solid. Not surprising.

tjc78

Oh the humanity.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

@tjc78 ....and another thing is it would be fairly easy for someone who isn't knowledgeable to press a button.....maybe they think "Diesel" has extra power. I bet a fairly large percentage of people don't know what 87. 89 93 mean.....remember there are several youtubes with people try to put gas into their Prius.

You do realize that a Prius is a gas powered vehicle.

I meant Tesla (which was in the video)....I don't really keep track of those particular cars, I have more important things on my mind than knowing Prius's from Teslas...to me they are all the same....but, I think you know what I meant.

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

Oh the humanity.

True, but to be honest it's really hard to notice the one window on the side of that house is smaller than the other windows.

ab348

tjc78 said:

Oh the humanity.

{picture snipped to minimize trauma]

My eyes!! As the owner of a red Cadillac of similar style I am gobsmacked. This is New Jersey, correct? Remind me to never visit there.

driver100

ab348 said:

tjc78 said:

Oh the humanity.

{picture snipped to minimize trauma]

My eyes!! As the owner of a red Cadillac of similar style I am gobsmacked. This is New Jersey, correct? Remind me to never visit there.

Ab, you should never go to Florida then......those are more common than regular Caddies.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

More shenanigans from the old guys.

The same team that wrecked the company car wash may have destroyed a new diesel pick up. Seems one of them filled it with gas instead of diesel. Thanks to the marvels of modern computer safety systems the truck wouldn’t start, probably because the anti-knock sensor detected something was amiss. It had to be towed away.

Don't they give some kind of I.Q. Test to new employees?
This could easily be a $10000 repair.
Evidently, this happens more often than anyone might think.
Why oh why, don't they make the filler tank and the nozzle on the gas and diesel pump so they don't fit into each other....even I can figure that they should do that?

Well the diesel fuel nozzle is larger than the gas one so it won't fit in the fuel door of a gas car. But the gas filler nozzle will fit in the diesel vehicle since it is smaller. The only other solution would be to make them different shapes but then they would be harder to get it in the cars filler neck and people will complain about that.

Diesel could be square or have wings on the side of it so you can't jam it into a gasser but fits a diesel.
This is easily solvable.....................

As I said before, that would require the diesel nozzle to be perfectly aligned with the vehicles filler neck resulting in people fiddling with the nozzle to get it to fit. This fiddling could also cause damage to the nozzle as well as the vehicles filler neck.

It could be done. There could also be a sensor in the filler neck that could immediately notify the idiot.. err operator that they are putting the wrong fuel in.

Please explain how in the world will a sensor in the filler neck be able to notify the idiot that he is putting in the wrong fuel when the fuel type is clearly labeled on the button you push to select the fuel type if not also on or near the nozzle to be used and that doesn't alert them. Look at the picture below, even if you put the gas nozzle in your vehicle you should be able to push the Diesel button to start fueling. And in that case it wouldn't work as the pump won't pump gas if you push diesel. Just remember you can get to the point where you can't save someone from themselves. After that all you can do is upload the results to YouTube.

I’m no scientist but I’m sure there enough of a chemical difference (PH, etc??) that a sensor could pick up on.

My point is is that if you are putting gas in a diesel vehicle you are either oblivious to what fuel your vehicle takes or you are to unaware that your are using the nozzle for gas and pushing a button that's not labeled "diesel". If that's a case then a sensor warning you likely will not work.

I hear you. It’s certainly not something any of us would do... but it gets done often enough that IMO there could be a mechanism to make it completely idiot proof. Think of a three prong electric outlet. You can’t put that in wrong even if you tried.

They could incorporate a valve that shuts off the moment the sensor recognizes the wrong fuel, cutting off the pump.

You seem to be over complicating the thing and how do you keep it from shutting off other pumps? But why stop there? Why not equip every car with a technician highly trained in pumping gas to do it for you?

As I said there is a point where you have to stop trying to save people from themselves. I do believe that this is the point. They will only learn after an expensive repair or two.

Everything should be designed to accommodate the lowest common denominator. Especially when it is fairly easy to do, and mistakes are costly and can happen fairly easily. As in when a car gets loaned to someone and you forget to tell them.

roadburner

driver100 said:

Everything should be designed to accommodate the lowest common denominator. .

From anyone else I would laugh and know that they were simply being sarcastic...

driver100 said:

As in when a car gets loaned to someone and you forget to tell them.

A much simpler solution: Don't loan your car to abject morons.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

@tjc78 ....and another thing is it would be fairly easy for someone who isn't knowledgeable to press a button.....maybe they think "Diesel" has extra power. I bet a fairly large percentage of people don't know what 87. 89 93 mean.....remember there are several youtubes with people try to put gas into their Prius.

You do realize that a Prius is a gas powered vehicle.

I meant Tesla (which was in the video)....I don't really keep track of those particular cars, I have more important things on my mind than knowing Prius's from Teslas...to me they are all the same....but, I think you know what I meant.

Trying to read minds is dangerous, especially with you. There are times (too many), I don’t know what you mean even after you say it.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

Farmer, when I had the Elantra the oil change interval in the manual (I don't think it had a service monitoring system, just a light tied to miles or time) it was 3,750 severe or 6,500 normal. And their severe schedule was what is probably normal for most people. I was not taking it in that often (not that I had the car all that long). Not sure on my Sonata but I am sure I did that one more like 5-6,500

The Soul say 7500 OCI which is way more than I would ever go. What was strange was that when I called Kia corporate to ask what their OCI was for synthetic I was told “same for both synthetic and conventional”. That made no sense to me as I think 5,000 on synthetic is more than enough. If it can’t go any further than cheaper conventional, what’s the point?

Some months later I asked a Kia service tech what he thought and he rolled his eyes and said 5,000 was fine.

7,500 miles would be fine as well; used oil analysis indicated that a 10,000 mile interval was fine for the TGDI motor in my MS3- and it was running great when I sold it with 158,000 miles on the clock.

My son drives a 2009 328i. The car has been run on BMW TPT 5W-30 or BMW TPT 0W-30 since new- with a minimum OCI of 15,000 miles/12 months; here's what it looked like under the valve cover at 8 years/108,000 miles(and it's also still running strong):

Back in the day I changed the oil on my Plymouth religiously at 3k miles like they said you should. At 139k miles it threw the timing chain and bent a few valves. They had to pull everything apart and the mechanic said the motor was unusually clean for the milage.

40 some years later I still adhere to what some might say is excessive changes. I have a feeling that today’s high tolerance engines might need those frequent changes more than the old 60s stuff.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

@tjc78 ....and another thing is it would be fairly easy for someone who isn't knowledgeable to press a button.....maybe they think "Diesel" has extra power. I bet a fairly large percentage of people don't know what 87. 89 93 mean.....remember there are several youtubes with people try to put gas into their Prius.

You do realize that a Prius is a gas powered vehicle.

I meant Tesla (which was in the video)....I don't really keep track of those particular cars, I have more important things on my mind than knowing Prius's from Teslas...to me they are all the same....but, I think you know what I meant.

Trying to read minds is dangerous, especially with you. There are times (too many), I don’t know what you mean even after you say it.

jmonroe

I know....it is hard for some people to keep up.

driver100

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

Everything should be designed to accommodate the lowest common denominator. .

From anyone else I would laugh and know that they were simply being sarcastic...

driver100 said:

As in when a car gets loaned to someone and you forget to tell them.

A much simpler solution: Don't loan your car to abject morons.

Sometimes it's hard to know someone is a moron until after they do something moronic.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Oh the humanity.

As recently as the late 2000s decade I was still seeing dealers slap vinyl roofs on new cars and charge $3000 mark ups. My BIL bought a 2003 Nissan Altima that the dealer had done that to. He got a good deal because the car sat around unsalable but I didn’t have the nerve to tell him how hideous it looked. When I bought my 95’ Lincoln hooptie I grew to hate whoever had slapped one on there as well.

Sadly, you still see dealers doing that.

One new Corvette I was looking at had a $7500 mop & glo ADM. I’m not sure which would be worse.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

Everything should be designed to accommodate the lowest common denominator. .

From anyone else I would laugh and know that they were simply being sarcastic...

driver100 said:

As in when a car gets loaned to someone and you forget to tell them.

A much simpler solution: Don't loan your car to abject morons.

Sometimes it's hard to know someone is a moron until after they do something moronic.

You do know you’re talking to an ex-judge, right? He’s liable to say “case closed”.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

Everything should be designed to accommodate the lowest common denominator. .

From anyone else I would laugh and know that they were simply being sarcastic...

driver100 said:

As in when a car gets loaned to someone and you forget to tell them.

A much simpler solution: Don't loan your car to abject morons.

Sometimes it's hard to know someone is a moron until after they do something moronic.

You do know you’re talking to an ex-judge, right? He’s liable to say “case closed”.

jmonroe

I stand by what I said...........and if someone gets all excited because I didn't realize a Prius can run on gas as well as battery power then big deal....whatever makes their day. I don't get OCD about minor details...I look at the big picture
And the fact is there are a lot of people who accidently or unknowingly put gasoline into a diesel engine and it wouldn't take much to make it more.........hmmmm, for lack of a better word, foolproof.

roadburner

driver100 said:

As in when a car gets loaned to someone and you forget to tell them.

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

Everything should be designed to accommodate the lowest common denominator. .

From anyone else I would laugh and know that they were simply being sarcastic...

driver100 said:

As in when a car gets loaned to someone and you forget to tell them.

A much simpler solution: Don't loan your car to abject morons.

Sometimes it's hard to know someone is a moron until after they do something moronic.

You do know you’re talking to an ex-judge, right? He’s liable to say “case closed”.

jmonroe

I think that you answered your own question.

fintail

I am surprised there isn't more to it already, just for liability reasons and potential headaches - even if someone makes a mistake, it'll be a huge hassle to fix it, and you can't get blood out of a turnip. No matter what the brave self-made contrarians say, all regulation isn't over-regulation. To be fair, Europe, which tends to have more consumer-friendly regulations has no special filling regulations either, but they also have vastly more aware drivers, and diesel is more of a part of driving culture there.

However, I think this is probably a moot ideal on this side of the pond. Diesel passenger cars are all but done in this market, and trucks are generally an enthusiast thing where the owners can handle it.

driver100 said:

I stand by what I said...........and if someone gets all excited because I didn't realize a Prius can run on gas as well as battery power then big deal....whatever makes their day. I don't get OCD about minor details...I look at the big picture
And the fact is there are a lot of people who accidently or unknowingly put gasoline into a diesel engine and it wouldn't take much to make it more.........hmmmm, for lack of a better word, foolproof.

driver100

fintail said:

I am surprised there isn't more to it already, just for liability reasons and potential headaches - even if someone makes a mistake, it'll be a huge hassle to fix it, and you can't get blood out of a turnip.

However, I think this is probably a moot ideal on this side of the pond. Diesel passenger cars are all but done in this market, and trucks are generally an enthusiast thing where the owners can handle it.

driver100 said:

I stand by what I said...........and if someone gets all excited because I didn't realize a Prius can run on gas as well as battery power then big deal....whatever makes their day. I don't get OCD about minor details...I look at the big picture
And the fact is there are a lot of people who accidently or unknowingly put gasoline into a diesel engine and it wouldn't take much to make it more.........hmmmm, for lack of a better word, foolproof.

I agree, and it is easier to go on doing what you have been doing unless you are forced to change. Remember the Pinto exploding gas tanks.......all because Ford didn't want to pay an extra $1 a car to make them safe. Changing over would be costly and would take a period of time.

However.....this seems to be an attempt at a solution, similar to what tjc was suggesting...not a sensor but something that blocks the gas nozzle from entering a diesel filler.

Small-diameter filler pipes are used to deliver unleaded gasoline, but can also fit into the filler opening on many diesel vehicles. Some newer diesel models have a device in the filler neck that prevents a smaller gasoline nozzle from being inserted.
https://exchange.aaa.com/common-myths-fuel-pumps/#.YDGSuGhKiUk

imidazol97

Son and DIL are looking at Venzas. Hybrid. all wheel drive in all models. Hmmmm.

Any input?

I kept telling him my opinion when he'd bring up different cars. I told him a toyota most likely would give good service without failures that require visits to dealer like the Cruze has had.
I like the 2.5 L NA engine with the electric motor.

He sort of wants to drive the RAV 4 as well to compare.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

Son and DIL are looking at Venzas. Hybrid. all wheel drive in all models. Hmmmm.

Any input?

I kept telling him my opinion when he'd bring up different cars. I told him a toyota most likely would give good service without failures that require visits to dealer like the Cruze has had.
I like the 2.5 L NA engine with the electric motor.

He sort of wants to drive the RAV 4 as well to compare.

A Toyota should give him good service although he may pay a little more up front. How long will he keep it? I haven’t heard anything in particular bad about the Venza or the Rav4. I’ve driven the latter although not the hybrid version. Hated the lane keeper nanny but I’m sure you could turn it off. Rav4 drives like a larger vehicle and has good interior room.