Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

sda said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

interesting thing happened today. my daughter's friend left his car out front when they went to the beach (ratty old Camry that needed to be jumped at the end of the day). I mentioned he should buy the Volvo instead (just kidding!), and turns out that he was getting a new (or at least newer) car tomorrow. A Mitsu Lancer.

Now that is a coincidence...out of all the cars to buy - a Mitsu.

I was curious about what their sales are like and I was surprised they sell almost twice as many cars a year as Volvo, 32000 compared to 18100.

CAR SALES BY MANUFACTURER


I had no idea Volvo sales had sunk to that level, though I knew they were down. Any idea what their sales volume was in their prime?

sda said: I had no idea Volvo sales had sunk to that level, though I knew they were down. Any idea what their sales volume was in their prime?

To quote wikipedia:
Nineteen eighty-six marked a record year for Volvo in the US, with 113,267 cars sold. The appearance of Japanese luxury brands like Acura and Lexus in subsequent years meant the loss of a significant market share for Volvo, one which they have never regained
That is 18000 today, compared to a high of 113,000. Ouch!

Since it is unlikely I would buy another Audi, and I am losing interest in BMW (run flat tires), and I do like our MBs so far - but I always like to have a back up plan just in case. I did have a bad experience with our 95 Volvo and I hesitate to go back, but it would be on my back-up list, along with Jaguar, Lexus, Infinity, Maxima, Acura, Lincoln, Avalon, and I would have tried a Cadillac - but not after GGs experience. I also like Jeeps for some reason. So far, the MBs are about as good as it gets for me.

bwia

@sda said: I had no idea Volvo sales had sunk to that level, though I knew they were down. Any idea what their sales volume was in their prime?

As a brand, Volvo's sales peaked in 2004 at 139,384 units sold. If my family is representative of the brand you see why sales cratered. My wife drove an S70 and later an S60, both with electrical problems. My daughter and her husband each drove aV70. He upgraded to an S80 but returned it after four months because of numerous problems. My daughter's V70 had an electrical fire and was burnt to a crisp. Needless to say they are not driving Volvos anymore and will not consider one any time soon.

More stats at http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10/volvo-brand-sales-figures-usa-canada.html

suydam

Had some fun test driving compact cars with a friend yesterday. Her car was totaled in an accident (she's fine) so she needs an inexpensive replacement. Priority for her: fuel economy and reliability, along with easy bluetooth and radio connections. We drove the 2015 Civic, Corolla, and Hyundai Elantra (her previous car), along with a Prius. I was surprised how nice the new Corollas are. For a very cheap price you get a solid little car with surprising room that handles more like a traditional compact than either the Civic or the Elantra, which felt much more like midsize cars. The radio and nav interface are by far the easiest to use. And the interior no longer has that cheap plasticky look and feel. It's plain. But in a good way -- efficient and not distracting.

driver100

bwia said:

@sda said: I had no idea Volvo sales had sunk to that level, though I knew they were down. Any idea what their sales volume was in their prime?

As a brand, Volvo's sales peaked in 2004 at 139,384 units sold. If my family is representative of the brand you see why sales cratered. My wife drove an S70 and later an S60, both with electrical problems. My daughter and her husband each drove aV70. He upgraded to an S80 but returned it after four months because of numerous problems. My daughter's V70 had an electrical fire and was burnt to a crisp. Needless to say they are not driving Volvos anymore and will not consider one any time soon.

More stats at http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10/volvo-brand-sales-figures-usa-canada.html

Sales really took a hit in 2008 when Ford said they were bailing out and Geely of China would buy the company. Too much uncertainty for most people to trust spending $40k or more for a car from an unknown, untried company.

All of those problems that one family had are pretty scarey....but, they do build "safe" cars.

driver100

suydam said:

Had some fun test driving compact cars with a friend yesterday. Her car was totaled in an accident (she's fine) so she needs an inexpensive replacement. Priority for her: fuel economy and reliability, along with easy bluetooth and radio connections. We drove the 2015 Civic, Corolla, and Hyundai Elantra (her previous car), along with a Prius. I was surprised how nice the new Corollas are. For a very cheap price you get a solid little car with surprising room that handles more like a traditional compact than either the Civic or the Elantra, which felt much more like midsize cars. The radio and nav interface are by far the easiest to use. And the interior no longer has that cheap plasticky look and feel. It's plain. But in a good way -- efficient and not distracting.

I just read a review of the 2015 Corolla 50th anniversary edition, available in Canada - celebrating 50 years of selling cars in Canada. The article said the Corolla uses such tried and tested technology it is really bulletproof as far as reliability is concerned. Upgrades are a nice plus, more room, more modern styling etc. It is a bit anemic and even the Anniversary Edition which is all dressed up to look faster - even with a spoiler, and 17 inch wheels, still uses the old anemic 1.8 4 cylinder engine. But, you can't go wrong if you want good basic reliable transportation, and don't expect to get any real driving pleasure from handling and performance of the car.

stickguy

Driver, you might actually be a good candidate for an Acura RLX. I saw one drive down my street today. Nice looking. Comfy, AWD, great highway cruiser, all the goodies and tech stuff. Plus can expect it to be bulletproof reliable.

roadburner

driver100 said:

suydam said:

Had some fun test driving compact cars with a friend yesterday. Her car was totaled in an accident (she's fine) so she needs an inexpensive replacement. Priority for her: fuel economy and reliability, along with easy bluetooth and radio connections. We drove the 2015 Civic, Corolla, and Hyundai Elantra (her previous car), along with a Prius. I was surprised how nice the new Corollas are. For a very cheap price you get a solid little car with surprising room that handles more like a traditional compact than either the Civic or the Elantra, which felt much more like midsize cars. The radio and nav interface are by far the easiest to use. And the interior no longer has that cheap plasticky look and feel. It's plain. But in a good way -- efficient and not distracting.

I just read a review of the 2015 Corolla 50th anniversary edition, available in Canada - celebrating 50 years of selling cars in Canada. The article said the Corolla uses such tried and tested technology it is really bulletproof as far as reliability is concerned. Upgrades are a nice plus, more room, more modern styling etc. It is a bit anemic and even the Anniversary Edition which is all dressed up to look faster - even with a spoiler, and 17 inch wheels, still uses the old anemic 1.8 4 cylinder engine. But, you can't go wrong if you want good basic reliable transportation, and don't expect to get any real driving pleasure from handling and performance of the car.

But you'll be driving a new Toyota- which makes you "BOLD"

fushigi

stickguy said:

Lack of dealers, and the ever present possibility of the company going out of business.

People have been saying Mitsu's US demise is imminent for at least 15 years. They're still here. Unlike Suzuki and other brands that folded US operations, Mitsu has US manufacturing; they build & even export cars from their plant in Illinois. I think that's a key difference in them maintaining a presence here.

Dealer availability seems like a regional issue; here in Chicagoland they're plentiful.

From http://www.motorintelligence.com/m_frameset.html (New Vehicle Sales), 2015 YTD sales are up 31.7% over 2014. (The 41K sales are year to date, not a full year's data.) They are the smallest non-premium brand in the US but that doesn't mean much.

roadburner

I really liked the early '90s Montero SR as well as the Lancer Evolution(of course). The rest of Mitsubishi's product lineup has always left me cold- although my 1979 Mitsu(Plymouth) Arrow GT 2.6 was a real hoot. 0-60 in under ten seconds, 5 speed, and four wheel discs at a time when very few cars combined all those features- and the cars that did cost up to twice as much...

graphicguy

nyccarguy said:

@graphicguy - any caddy news?

Bradd...nothing of note. My lawyer said he hasn't heard anything about the letter he sent. But, suggested I turn it over to a lawyer who specializes in this sort of thing. I kept thinking I'm paying for Cadillac's mistakes by doing that. But, talked to the lawyer who does this and said he would charge his fees back to Cadillac. So, I told him to go ahead with it. He said the case is solid and doesn't expect any pushback. But, no one knows how this will turn out. I'm not as confident as the lawyer. I know that with each passing day, the more p'd off I become at Cadillac and the more resolute I am.

BBB said they had heard nothing from Cadillac and asked when I had last heard anything. That was about a couple of weeks ago, and the only thing they wanted to know was what the dealer(s) said (no code, no fix). BBB said the next step is an arbitration hearing, but even that's not binding. So, not sure what the purpose of that would be.

In short, Cadillac has gone into their stall routine. I can wait as long or longer than they can. Now, it's gone from the CTS being a lemon to a matter of principle.

stickguy

maybe that is why you got those seemingly random calls from Caddy customer service (where they had no clue why they were calling). So they could produce a paper trail, and try to pin it on you for not cooperating? Though maybe that is giving them too much credit vs. just being dysfunctional!

graphicguy

stickguy said:

maybe that is why you got those seemingly random calls from Caddy customer service (where they had no clue why they were calling). So they could produce a paper trail, and try to pin it on you for not cooperating? Though maybe that is giving them too much credit vs. just being dysfunctional!

Stick....I don't know what Cadillac is trying to achieve by stalling. Do other people just accept an inferior (and in this case, dangerous) product, one that doesn't even remotely perform as it was designed? Does Cadillac just hope we go away and not bother them anymore? The longer they draw this out, the worse it gets. They clearly don't see it that way.

I get all riled up just thinking about it. Not only have they lost me as a customer, anyone who reads these boards who were on the fence, have stated Cadillac is off their list, too.

Clearly, Cadillac reads these boards, as they've sent me a message as a result. Clearly, they don't care how bad the car is, or how unhappy they've made me.

Off the soap box......

stickguy

I probably was not buying, but I was considering. No longer doing that.

My guess? If this is a conscious plan on their part, it is war of attrition. really costs them nothing to just ignore you (and others like you) because if it ends up in your favor, costs them the same now vs. 3-4-6 months from now. But, if they can wait you out, eventually you might be forced to make a move (trade it in on something else?) because you need a car.

so, the potential ill will (and who knows how much they consider word of mouth in these cases) may be worth less to them than all the cases that disappear when the owners give up and throw in the towel. So while it make take longer, by sticking to your guns you will ultimately get the end result desired.

Mr_Shiftright

I think Mitsubishi makes a pretty darn good car, if a somewhat bland line-up except for the Evo. But 2016 will be the last Evo. I was hoping they'd build the concept car as the Final Edition (473 HP from a 2.0L!) but alas, we'll only see 1000 of the 296 HP version. I came within *this close* (picture if you will the thickness of a nostril hair) to buying an EVO in 2010 but I bought a Mini instead. The EVO was a rough-riding bronco of a car...sound deadening? What's that? I said WHAT'S THAT?. I even explored how to fill in the holes in the trunk after removing the boy racer spoiler/wing/package shelf. What a hoot to drive. It turned in so well I kept clipping the apexes. My friend owned a Mitsu dealership and he had a very caressed personal EVO that put out some serious horsepower. He was a former Formula Ford local champ and took me for quite an exciting ride. After it was over, as the brake rotors sizzled in the fading light, he turned to me and said: "Fear no man".

driver100

stickguy said:

Driver, you might actually be a good candidate for an Acura RLX. I saw one drive down my street today. Nice looking. Comfy, AWD, great highway cruiser, all the goodies and tech stuff. Plus can expect it to be bulletproof reliable.

Stick...I would trust the quality of an RLX. Edmunds gives the 2015 model 4 stars. But, then I wonder when I see the CONS:

PROS Abundant standard features; spacious cabin.

Cons

Harsh ride with the 19-inch wheels and tires; disconnected steering feel; so-so display screen graphics with distracting interface; front seats get uncomfortable on longer drives.

Then the first consumer review says:

Purchased new RLX in 2014, what a mistake. It has had three recalls and now an engine noise has developed which Acura mechanics can not figure out. Audio tapes have been sent to Acura Engineering and they are stumped. I intend to get rid of it as soon as it comes back from shop (two weeks) Bad news trade in value is now $35,000 for a one year old car with 12,000 miles for which I paid $52,000. Go with Lexus or Infinity and save yourself trouble......

Sounds good in theory, but...............

stickguy

well, you can get a bad apple in any bushel.

driver100

graphicguy said:

nyccarguy said:

@graphicguy - any caddy news?

Bradd...nothing of note. My lawyer said he hasn't heard anything about the letter he sent. But, suggested I turn it over to a lawyer who specializes in this sort of thing. I kept thinking I'm paying for Cadillac's mistakes by doing that. But, talked to the lawyer who does this and said he would charge his fees back to Cadillac. So, I told him to go ahead with it. He said the case is solid and doesn't expect any pushback. But, no one knows how this will turn out. I'm not as confident as the lawyer. I know that with each passing day, the more p'd off I become at Cadillac and the more resolute I am.

BBB said they had heard nothing from Cadillac and asked when I had last heard anything. That was about a couple of weeks ago, and the only thing they wanted to know was what the dealer(s) said (no code, no fix). BBB said the next step is an arbitration hearing, but even that's not binding. So, not sure what the purpose of that would be.

In short, Cadillac has gone into their stall routine. I can wait as long or longer than they can. Now, it's gone from the CTS being a lemon to a matter of principle.

There is a GM ad that says go to them first before you try the lemon laws. The ad actually says:


Warranty, Repair & Lemon Law Help

Let Us Help You

At GM, we pride ourselves on ensuring an exceptional ownership experience. From purchasing your new Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac or GMC vehicle to your vehicle’s service, we are here to support you.

If you are not enjoying an exceptional experience - anything from ongoing warranty concerns to having difficulty getting your vehicle repaired, contact GM and let us help. We understand that customers may turn in many directions for assistance, including the local Better Business Bureau, State Attorney Generals, and Lemon Law firms. Make GM your first choice when you need help with your GM vehicle - give us the opportunity to earn your trust and maintain your confidence.

GM Lemon Law Help


GG, I still don't know why you wouldn't go to the state attorney general who is set up to handle these cases. It seems to me, the BBB is pretty useless, they get their funds from giving companies good ratings. But, just my 2 cents worth
If You Have a Lemon Get Help

thebean

Just to echo what others have said - same ol' GM.  Let the bean counters rule the day while customer satisfaction goes to the dogs.  I was a bean counter for 35 years, but at our company, we knew our place and the engineers were king, as it should have been.

driver100

stickguy said:

well, you can get a bad apple in any bushel.

It wouldn't concern me as much if it was the 10th review, after 9 good ones. But, being the first review doesn't inspire confidence.

I checked out 2014 Cadillac CTS consumer reviews and 3 people gave it 5 stars and loved the car. Interestingly, by mistake I checked 2014 Cadillac ATS reviews (eye exam coming up) and found similar complaints to GG. Including safety issues and no help from GM.

2014 Cadillac CTS

driver100

thebean said:

Just to echo what others have said - same ol' GM.  Let the bean counters rule the day while customer satisfaction goes to the dogs.  I was a bean counter for 35 years, but at our company, we knew our place and the engineers were king, as it should have been.

Right on bean. In fact, Cadillac was moving their offices to New York to get inspired. That figures....go to Wall St to put some heart and soul into cars! Office should be in California, Paris, Rome, London, not New York.

abacomike

Driver, you are right about MB.  My brother followed me up to my dealer and they washed and detailed his car at no charge even though he did not buy his E400 Sedan from them.  His car was filled with squashed bugs up front.

As for Dad, he is in pretty bad shape.  He has pulled his catheter out 5 times (OUCH!!!) and keeps trying to get out of bed.  Blood all over him.  I have my doubts about any future and ever getting him home again.  He has a urinary tract infection along with his 3 broken ribs from his fall here at the hospital 3 days ago.

The care he is getting is great at times at terrible at times - all depends what nurse is working with him.  He hardly eats anything even when I hand feed him.  Same with drinking fluids.  He gets two different antibiotics and of course an IV drip.  I have a feeling the rehab hospice is not going to take him back so I may have to find him another place.

This is the most stressful experience I have ever had - even more stressful than when my son Justin was undergoing proton radiation earlier this year for his brain tumor.  Tough year, that's for sure.

roadburner

Been there Mike- extremely tough.

driver100

Mike, I was wondering how you were doing today and would probably have your hands full. There may be a social agency or volunteer organization that can help guide you through all the possibilities.

These things don't have an easy one step solution. Your Dad may go home again, but, as you know he may not. Just take each step, one at a time. Maybe getting some help from an agency or with administration people at the hospital would be a start. Not sure ig google is worth a try.

ab348

More Cadillac bashing, I see. Can we at least agree that whatever GG's experience actually is, is not typical? My ATS is flawless and the dealer has been fine. I have to think there is more to the story than any of us here knows, maybe even more than GG knows.

I'm sorry but when I see "same old GM", "bean counters running things", "moved to Wall St" (it's Brooklyn BTW) I get really irritated.

stever

I can sort of understand the desire to move, but I still think Cadillac should be in Detroit (well, Grosse Pointe would have worked for frou-frou). If it helps, I'm still bashing Volvo after 40 years. Jinxed with that brand.

(hang in there Mike)

isellhondas

Yeah, Mike...Hang in there. Tough way to wind down a long life for sure.

isellhondas

I don't think anyone is "bashing" Cadillac. I think GG is simply relating HIS experiences. Had you had the same misfortunes with your ATS, you might be doing the same thing.

ab348

isellhondas said:

I don't think anyone is "bashing" Cadillac. I think GG is simply relating HIS experiences. Had you had the same misfortunes with your ATS, you might be doing the same thing.

I wasn't referring to anything GG posted.

abacomike

isellhondas said:

Yeah, Mike...Hang in there. Tough way to wind down a long life for sure.

Just got back from the hospital - urologist said he is scheduled Thursday for a TURP on his prostate.  First I heard of that plan.  Good grief - what more are they going to do to that poor man.  Surgeon won't be back in town until Wednesday - so I won't know anything more definitive until then.  And my brother is leaving Monday or Tuesday so I'll be all alone again to face the uncertainties.

I'll just have to grin an bear it!

roadburner

abacomike said:

isellhondas said:

Yeah, Mike...Hang in there. Tough way to wind down a long life for sure.

Just got back from the hospital - urologist said he is scheduled Thursday for a TURP on his prostate.  First I heard of that plan.  Good grief - what more are they going to do to that poor man.  Surgeon won't be back in town until Wednesday - so I won't know anything more definitive until then.  And my brother is leaving Monday or Tuesday so I'll be all alone again to face the uncertainties.

I'll just have to grin an bear it!

We will keep you on the prayer list, Mike!

carnaught

Mike, agree with another poster above. Have Social Services help you find a suitable assisted care facility for your father. You can't possibly do 24-7 care with him. It's better to have one patient here than two. Good luck.

stickguy

Mike, sorry to hear about the continued problems. Went through this last year with my mother.

Does the hospital have a palliative department? We ended up connecting with the Palliative person, and she was a Godsend. It was so frustrating dealing with the medical people, because there were so many, and no one seemed to be "in charge". They all just focused on their piece of the patient, and often wanted to do things that made no sense given the big picture. Palliative looks at the patient and their situation as a whole, including the family (and spiritual) aspects.

she also was key for navigating the rehab/facilities/paperwork maze, to figure out what options made the most sense, and making them happen.

thebean

@ab348, you are perhaps talking about my post.  I was bashing Cadillac for their poor customer service in GG's case and, if what I read in other forums is true, other cases as well.  Problems with a car are not the issue.  Stonewalling the customer and not doing any diagnostic work other than plugging the car into a computer is a problem.  That's not how a world class company, which Cadillac tries to be, does business IMHO.

isellhondas

ab348 said:

isellhondas said:

I don't think anyone is "bashing" Cadillac. I think GG is simply relating HIS experiences. Had you had the same misfortunes with your ATS, you might be doing the same thing.

I wasn't referring to anything GG posted.

Oh, sorry...I'll go back and reread.

driver100

ab348 said:

isellhondas said:

I don't think anyone is "bashing" Cadillac. I think GG is simply relating HIS experiences. Had you had the same misfortunes with your ATS, you might be doing the same thing.

I wasn't referring to anything GG posted.

ab, probably more what I posted. I am not bashing Cadillac without a reason. There may be something missing in GGs story, but no customer should be treated the way he has been. I don't bash without a reason. I bashed Audi because of my problems with them....even they treated me better than GG has been treated. I just report what I find, don't shoot the messenger. As I said, Edmunds buyers reviews reported 4 out of 5 stars and 3 reviewers out of 3 were very happy with there CTS's. I bashed Volvo because 3 dealers couldn't fix the problems we were having with our 95 Volvo (while under warranty).

I am disappointed that Cadillac made a big point that it was a new company with a new attitude, and their website which I gave a link to says they will do everything they can do to please their customers. It is all just useless words. btw...probably most of the other car companies are the same.

I love the looks of the ATS and CTS and really believed that Cadillac was going to try to change their reputation, and reviewers and customers seem very satisfied with their cars....but, GGs experience really makes me wary. I hope you are in the majority of Cadillac owners and you will love your car.

bwia

abacomike said:

isellhondas said:

Yeah, Mike...Hang in there. Tough way to wind down a long life for sure.

Just got back from the hospital - urologist said he is scheduled Thursday for a TURP on his prostate.  First I heard of that plan.  Good grief - what more are they going to do to that poor man.  Surgeon won't be back in town until Wednesday - so I won't know anything more definitive until then.  And my brother is leaving Monday or Tuesday so I'll be all alone again to face the uncertainties.

I'll just have to grin an bear it!

As a WWII veteran, shouldn't your dad be getting the best VA care possible? --- just wondering. 

abacomike

@bwia

The he veterans hospitals down here are awful.  It took 6 months to get him seen for hearing aids several years back.  So now he just buys his hearing aids.  I would not put my father in the hands of the VA unless I believed on euthanasia!

He is getting better care through his Medicate Advantage insurance.  I just need to get the doctors to talk with me about their plans.  He hasn't pulled this latest catheter out yet, so that's an improvement.  

I will know better tomorrow or on Monday.  He just called me on my cell phone thinking it was his bank and wanted to know how much he had on deposit.  So I called the nurses' station to find out who gave him a phone to call me.  He is so confused - such a pity.

But no VA hospitals or doctors for my Dad.

isellhondas

You know, it's funny because I know several people who swear by VA hospitals and these folks just rave about the quality of care they receive yet others feel as Mike does.

??????

ab348

Mike, so sorry to hear about this latest development. Most of us go through it and it is always crummy.

stickguy

Isell, as with many things, it depends where you are. some are good. some are really bad.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

I'm sorry but when I see "same old GM", "bean counters running things", "moved to Wall St" (it's Brooklyn BTW) I get really irritated.

I have watched the response to this post and I have to agree that there is more negativity about GM car problems and they are treated in a different sense by folks. It's treated as if it is just a continuation of problems based on the tense of verbs used and thing said. When other car companies are talked about with their problems, they are viewed in a different way and treated as transient problems in many cases.

As for GG's problem, I think it's more a dealer problem. The dealer seems to be under pressure not to do anything to diagnose unless it can be pinpointed via a diagnostic code or a procedure that shows a part not to be operating correctly when commanded by the diagnostic computer.

I'll share my recent experience of a transient problem with my Cobalt (I can hear the minds now say that all Cobalts are bad and have problems--reference the attitude toward GM comment I made earlier).. Most Cobalts have been much better than the foreign-maker oriented folks would have us believe. Good ride and quiet ride. However, my son's showed a fleeting check engine light after sitting at college in coldest weather and that problem would go away as the weather warmed back to 20s and 30s. And eventually the light turned off after I believe it's 2 cycles of starts with no diagnostic error on the emission system. Dealer replaced air pump under the extended warranty because it was noisy. A couple weeks later, during very cold days, the secondary air pump system showed pressure low when car was started to go to his girl friend's apartment.

Dealer looked at it again, but no code was active because it had passed the checks for air pressure during the few seconds the pump runs at start up to add oxygen to the exhaust to fire up the catalyst quickly. No parts failed to work right when activated by the diagnostic computer. The warranty company (nee GM now Ally--GMPP) won't pay for the valve system that is the major part without a failure proven.

There's no way to have the car at the dealer when it's -10 outside and the condensate just happens to have blocked the air flow while still frozen. The pipe goes from below the engine where it's not heated while moving by engine warmth around to the top of the engine. So it thaws after engine is warmed up and sits.

I posted a comment about my Cobalt's symptoms here on Edmunds in a topic where an expert, Cardoc3, would see it. He commented explaining exactly what happens. The valve on the exhaust pipe leaks exhaust backwards and that has water in it which cools in the tubes going to the air pump. The water drops freeze and block the flow of air when the outside temps are so cold the water doesn't get evaporated from the engine heat. The water and corrosive condensate also damage the air pump itself. That fits with the air pump's having been noisy and the mechanic justifying replacing it. My solution based on EXPERT knowledge is to go ahead and replace the valve for a hundred and quarter myself at home. Which is what I planned to do during summer based on reading posts I found on the internet that the valves are troublesome.

GG's car needs someone just as analytical as cardoc3 looking at it. His dealer isn't doing that. Neither is the second dealer who looked at the car.

sda

roadburner said:

I really liked the early '90s Montero SR as well as the Lancer Evolution(of course). The rest of Mitsubishi's product lineup has always left me cold- although my 1979 Mitsu(Plymouth) Arrow GT 2.6 was a real hoot. 0-60 in under ten seconds, 5 speed, and four wheel discs at a time when very few cars combined all those features- and the cars that did cost up to twice as much...

I liked the early Dodge Colt which was made by Mitsubishi and had the Twin Stick. Actually drove a friends and thought it quite peppy and refined at that time--1980? I was in college, wow time gets away!

stever

imidazol97 said:

GG's car needs someone just as analytical as cardoc3 looking at it. His dealer isn't doing that. Neither is the second dealer who looked at the car.

Seems to me it's getting harder to find good techs like @thecardoc3 or when you do, it takes three weeks to get in to see them.

We started talking cars at my brother's last night and the question about which cars to avoid came up. Volkswagen led the discussion (it's all about VW in here Chattanooga now, and there's plenty of Passat grumbling around from locals who purchased one made here). Told my brother to tell his oldest son to hang on to his Avalanche because they are becoming minor collectibles. It's runs fine at 300k, but most of the electrical stuff on it has flaked out.

qbrozen

suydam said:

Had some fun test driving compact cars with a friend yesterday. Her car was totaled in an accident (she's fine) so she needs an inexpensive replacement. Priority for her: fuel economy and reliability, along with easy bluetooth and radio connections. We drove the 2015 Civic, Corolla, and Hyundai Elantra (her previous car), along with a Prius. I was surprised how nice the new Corollas are. For a very cheap price you get a solid little car with surprising room that handles more like a traditional compact than either the Civic or the Elantra, which felt much more like midsize cars. The radio and nav interface are by far the easiest to use. And the interior no longer has that cheap plasticky look and feel. It's plain. But in a good way -- efficient and not distracting.

Just a warning, if the Civic uses the same stereo unit as the Fit, the bluetooth does not function properly and the dealer has no clue what to do about it.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

ab348 said:

I'm sorry but when I see "same old GM", "bean counters running things", "moved to Wall St" (it's Brooklyn BTW) I get really irritated.

I have watched the response to this post and I have to agree that there is more negativity about GM car problems and they are treated in a different sense by folks. It's treated as if it is just a continuation of problems based on the tense of verbs used and thing said. When other car companies are talked about with their problems, they are viewed in a different way and treated as transient problems in many cases.

As for GG's problem, I think it's more a dealer problem. The dealer seems to be under pressure not to do anything to diagnose unless it can be pinpointed via a diagnostic code or a procedure that shows a part not to be operating correctly when commanded by the diagnostic computer.


GG's car needs someone just as analytical as cardoc3 looking at it. His dealer isn't doing that. Neither is the second dealer who looked at the car.

I don't discriminate...I bash all cars equally and I bash car companies that - or indeed any company - that doesn't listen to a customers complaint. I had my own business for 20 years and I doubt if 1% of my customers (over 1000) would say they had ever been mistreated by me.

IMHO GM corporate is every bit as much to blame as the dealer - if not more so. If your dealers aren't competent then the company should be in there getting the problem sorted out. This is especially true when their website states they are there to help and they will back up their own product.

I have bashed Audi just as much, but, at least they had the decency to meet me part way...the dealer 25% and head office 25%.

I checked 2010 Cobalts and people seem generally satisfied. One problem that keeps occuring is the key getting stuck in the ignition and the owner can't shut the car off. Seems people were charged to get this repaired but I think it was part of that ignition problem no one wanted to admit to. This was one owners review:

I have had numerous problems with my 2010 chevy cobalt. Currently the key is stuck in the ignition and will not turn back so the car will not shut off and I am at the dealership now to get it fixed. Before that We have had multiple problems with the computer and it has been replaced once and suggested to be replaced again. The car was hitching and would not go over 10 mile per hour. This has happened three times and they replaced some computer part the first time and reset the computer the 2-3 time. Now the car still hitches ever so often especially is the air conditioning is on and the check engine light comes on a lot for no reason I have had it checked a couple of times and it was nothing

Re: your problem with your son's Cobalt, I think if the dealer couldn't fix it corporate should be looking at your car so they can resolve the problem and possibly learn from it so they can make better cars in the future.


COBALT REVIEWS

ab348

fushigi said:

stickguy said:

Lack of dealers, and the ever present possibility of the company going out of business.

People have been saying Mitsu's US demise is imminent for at least 15 years. They're still here. Unlike Suzuki and other brands that folded US operations, Mitsu has US manufacturing; they build & even export cars from their plant in Illinois. I think that's a key difference in them maintaining a presence here.

Dealer availability seems like a regional issue; here in Chicagoland they're plentiful.

From http://www.motorintelligence.com/m_frameset.html (New Vehicle Sales), 2015 YTD sales are up 31.7% over 2014. (The 41K sales are year to date, not a full year's data.) They are the smallest non-premium brand in the US but that doesn't mean much.

Up here in Canada, Mitsu has an even more tenuous grip on life in this market. Their dealer network is sketchy both in terms of number and quality thereof, and you don't see many on the roads. Locally their dealer is owned by someone who has an absolutely terrible reputation - he made his name originally selling used cars to subprime customers, one of those "we'll get you credit" places - and you need to be brave to do business there. However, I have always sort of liked some of their vehicles. And right now I see a Lancer of some sort that runs around the neighborhood and it, without doubt, has one of the nicest shades of metallic gray paint I have ever seen. I believe Mitsu calls it "Titanium Gray Metallic" and it is the gray all automakers should use. It amazes me how few seem to get that color right. Lexus has a pearl gray that is also very good, and M-B has a nice gray also. Not many others.

suydam

Regarding Bluetooth in the Civic, is it that much different than the Accord's setup? It looks like the Accord with the 2 screens. Bluetooth is flawless in my Accord. But I have to say the Corolla's setup is much simpler and easier to use in all respects.

imidazol97

stever said:

Seems to me it's getting harder to find good techs like @thecardoc3 or when you do, it takes three weeks to get in to see them.

He is very analytical and methodical. That is extremely rare. He has an excellent memory of what he has experienced or read about in working with what other techs have learned. Outstanding skills and exceedingly rare in auto repair shops lately.

stever said:

We started talking cars at my brother's last night and the question about which cars to avoid came up. Volkswagen led the discussion (it's all about VW in here Chattanooga now, and there's plenty of Passat grumbling around from locals who purchased one made here)

Interesting about the VW grumbling which I assume includes sister Audi. I believe that grumbling reaches a critical point and then continues with a life of its own, as in the case of GM where people who've neither ridden in one nor owned one become experts on [nonpermissable word deleted] and mocking. Like some other brands, GM helped shoot themselves in the foot years back. But it comes back to the dealers.

How did the Passat problems get handled by the dealerships in the experience of those you were hearing about?
I have had excellent experiences because of good dealers.

stickguy

at this point, I have no tolerance at all for troublesome cars. if they start causing problems, and especially stranding someone, they are either fixed right immediately, or they will be gone soon. one way or another!

abacomike

stickguy said:

at this point, I have no tolerance at all for troublesome cars. if they start causing problems, and especially stranding someone, they are either fixed right immediately, or they will be gone soon. one way or another!

I used to know a guy who had the same approach in dealing with his many wives!!!