There certainly was no misunderstanding in the negotiations and agreed-to lease payment, even though approximate. It was a "bait" offer and then a "switch" in payment and attitude on the dealer's part. You did the right thing, of course!
That is one dealership I would never do business with. Even if they call back and meet your numbers, in the end they will make your life miserable.
There certainly was no misunderstanding in the negotiations and agreed-to lease payment, even though approximate. It was a "bait" offer and then a "switch" in payment and attitude on the dealer's part. You did the right thing, of course!
That is one dealership I would never do business with. Even if they call back and meet your numbers, in the end they will make your life miserable.
Yup. Even if they promised me the world now, I would not do business with them. I'm not eager enough.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
AB...I don't doubt what you state. So, if that's the case, why did they report they replaced the power steering unit and gears when I first reported the problem? Then, they denied there was a probelm.
Fact is, I was pretty high on this car until it started having problems. I even reported that here.
I wish this was a simple case of buyer's remorse (actually, at this juncture, I am remorseful I bought this car, now that I think about it). I have given Cadillac multiple opportunities to fix the car. Clearly, they've failed. The time for that has passed.
I don't need anyone to sympahtize, empathize or even agree with me. Cadillac has failed me, with a product that their dealers can't/won't fix, and/or that Cadillac corporate doesn't care about, regardless of their nifty slogans. Honestly, I think the car is unsafe. So, I'm to blame for trying to drive it.
Look, I know that some of you are brand loyal. I get that. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I don't have any desire to "punish" a person, a brand, a model of car. This is a HUGE hassle for me. I missed a day of meetings today because of this nonsense. It doesn't affect you, at all.
I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you.
28firefighter....frustrating, to say the least. Sounds like "yeah, we got a deal" went to "come on in, we'll work something out". That they took so long to tell you that is even worse. Most dealers want you to drive the car THAT DAY once a deal is struck. Always a bad sign when the "manager" you need isn't around to consumate the deals.
Let us know if you find another dalers who's willing to work with you.
GG: "I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you."
I say, please continue to share your experience with us. You are doing both yourself and us a favor by doing so. It is therapeutic and cathartic for you to articulate your frustration on the matter with fellow car enthusiasts. We, at the same time, are teaching each other how to respond to a seemingly insoluble situation. It is also pointing out which car brands should be avoided, or least approached with caution.
As for the possible offense to brand loyalists, I think you owe no apologies for your verbalizing your situation. You deserve empathy, consideration and intelligent exchange of information. Those offended may feel free to abstain from involvement in your issue.
What seems to be a pattern, it's only GM brand loyalists tend to get angry when somebody complains loudly about their favorite brand. We have here all sorts of people, a Honda salesman, couple of repeat BMW owners, couple of Mercedes-Benz owners, Ford, Mazda, etc. Those who actually care enough usually say something like "I love the brand, I know there are some people who were let down by it, but my experience was positive for reasons X and Y". Many will tell you that the reasons of them liking their brand does not preclude something going wrong.
However, the moment anything negative shows up about GM, there is a barrage of angry responses basically alleging this is another attack in gross injustice campaign waged against GM for more than a quarter of the century. Before we know it, GG will be a paid foreign brand shill, who made all this stuff up.
I know, I'm exaggerating, just for the rhetoric sake. But it does seem like many of GM loyalist are much more angry at the rest of the world than any of the other loyalists.
What seems to be a pattern, it's only GM brand loyalists tend to get angry when somebody complains loudly about their favorite brand. ...However, the moment anything negative shows up about GM, there is a barrage of angry responses basically alleging this is another attack in gross injustice campaign waged against GM for more than a quarter of the century.
Wow. That's an insult. I guess I'm included in being a "GM apologist"?
GG: "I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you."
I say, please continue to share your experience with us. You are doing both yourself and us a favor by doing so. It is therapeutic and cathartic for you to articulate your frustration on the matter with fellow car enthusiasts. We, at the same time, are teaching each other how to respond to a seemingly insoluble situation. It is also pointing out which car brands should be avoided, or least approached with caution.
As for the possible offense to brand loyalists, I think you owe no apologies for your verbalizing your situation. You deserve empathy, consideration and intelligent exchange of information. Those offended may feel free to abstain from involvement in your issue.
Well stated, car naught! This venue is "Buying and Selling Cars: Post your Experiences"! Graphic Guy bought a car and now he is sharing his experiences.
I, personally, have nothing against GM or FORD or CHRYSLER. I have real doubts about Cadillac, Audi, etc., based on what I have read here and other places - people's experiences with their cars after buying them and the service they receive. Driver and GG have had real world experiences and they need to vent. So let them vent.
What seems to be a pattern, it's only GM brand loyalists tend to get angry when somebody complains loudly about their favorite brand. ...However, the moment anything negative shows up about GM, there is a barrage of angry responses basically alleging this is another attack in gross injustice campaign waged against GM for more than a quarter of the century.
Wow. That's an insult. I guess I'm included in being a "GM apologist"?
Take it the way you want, I just made a qualitative non-scientific observation of a general pattern. Are you angry about that? My point exactly.
My issue is not that somebody is or is not a GM fan. We all come in different stripes. It's just that every time a negative statement about GM is made, there is a sure response alleging lack of fairness. Not just being wrong, or having a different experience, that's insufficient. Whoever doesn't like GM, does so either either due to ill intentions, or are swayed by equally ill-intentioned media coverage. I did not see similarly charged responses from non-GM people, at least not here . There may be some other forums, where similar responses are for other brands, just not here and that's just a fact.
BTW, I'm not saying that ALL GM fans are like that, but there is enough of them to fill forums with those types of responses.
GG: "I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you."
I say, please continue to share your experience with us. You are doing both yourself and us a favor by doing so. It is therapeutic and cathartic for you to articulate your frustration on the matter with fellow car enthusiasts. We, at the same time, are teaching each other how to respond to a seemingly insoluble situation. It is also pointing out which car brands should be avoided, or least approached with caution.
As for the possible offense to brand loyalists, I think you owe no apologies for your verbalizing your situation. You deserve empathy, consideration and intelligent exchange of information. Those offended may feel free to abstain from involvement in your issue.
I think I can say this for most of us: we care.
+1 I would like to continue to follow this saga and read GG's posts and "vents" (even though I don't consider them that).
I agree with car naught. I have way too much emotional involvement to get cut off now!
Same here- vent away!!!
I third that.
I about 10th that!
I want to know every detail. That is the way we learn and move forward. Burying one's head in the sand or being afraid to say something because it may offend someone is not a solution.
GG is just giving us the facts. Is he supposed to stop "venting" because some GM fans are offended?
I have heard negative comments about brands I know and love...I wouldn't take it personally. I'd rather know the facts.
But, I still don't understand why the Caddie isn't at the dealers service department.
AB...I don't doubt what you state. So, if that's the case, why did they report they replaced the power steering unit and gears when I first reported the problem? Then, they denied there was a probelm.
Fact is, I was pretty high on this car until it started having problems. I even reported that here.
I wish this was a simple case of buyer's remorse (actually, at this juncture, I am remorseful I bought this car, now that I think about it). I have given Cadillac multiple opportunities to fix the car. Clearly, they've failed. The time for that has passed.
I don't need anyone to sympahtize, empathize or even agree with me. Cadillac has failed me, with a product that their dealers can't/won't fix, and/or that Cadillac corporate doesn't care about, regardless of their nifty slogans. Honestly, I think the car is unsafe. So, I'm to blame for trying to drive it.
Look, I know that some of you are brand loyal. I get that. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I don't have any desire to "punish" a person, a brand, a model of car. This is a HUGE hassle for me. I missed a day of meetings today because of this nonsense. It doesn't affect you, at all.
I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you.
We are all pulling for you and hope your case is resolved to your satisfaction. While your frustration is understandable, it does not appear that you gave Cadillac a reasonable opportunity to remedy the indicated problems. Locking the vehicle in your garage or continuing to drive it, albeit defective, is not easy to understand. This is an intractable and inflexible stance that can only be resolved by arbitration.
Nevertheless, as others have said please continue to share the unfolding details of this saga.
My understanding is that after multiple visits, the dealers have essentially washed their hands of the car, and GG has committed to the buy back fight process.
So far, our Audi is perfect, no issues at all at it's 5k oil change. She loves it. My VW goes in tomorrow to replace a fuse hopefully, I can't charge my phone anymore in either place and hope it's just that. The starter problem it had a few weeks back was handled professionally and I was given a loaner over the holiday weekend...turned out to be a hard to find issue but they did find it. Thinking I'll be in and out tomorrow and that'll be it. Saw a new IS250 in maroon earlier and it was very striking...my neighbor got a dark gray one which he seems to really like. Lexus seems to be on a roll lately and I did almost buy a cpo unit last year.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I like the IS but could never buy one as I can't drive it. At least not an AWD, which is all you find around here. Bathe giant hump on the floor making me contort my right leg is a deal breaker.
The one Lexus I actually like is the ES. That is nice!
AB...I don't doubt what you state. So, if that's the case, why did they report they replaced the power steering unit and gears when I first reported the problem? Then, they denied there was a probelm.
Fact is, I was pretty high on this car until it started having problems. I even reported that here.
I wish this was a simple case of buyer's remorse (actually, at this juncture, I am remorseful I bought this car, now that I think about it). I have given Cadillac multiple opportunities to fix the car. Clearly, they've failed. The time for that has passed.
I don't need anyone to sympahtize, empathize or even agree with me. Cadillac has failed me, with a product that their dealers can't/won't fix, and/or that Cadillac corporate doesn't care about, regardless of their nifty slogans. Honestly, I think the car is unsafe. So, I'm to blame for trying to drive it.
Look, I know that some of you are brand loyal. I get that. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I don't have any desire to "punish" a person, a brand, a model of car. This is a HUGE hassle for me. I missed a day of meetings today because of this nonsense. It doesn't affect you, at all.
I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you.
I also agree with carnaught. Would they come and tow your car from your house if you had a flat tire ???
maybe that is why you got those seemingly random calls from Caddy customer service (where they had no clue why they were calling). So they could produce a paper trail, and try to pin it on you for not cooperating? Though maybe that is giving them too much credit vs. just being dysfunctional!
Stick....I don't know what Cadillac is trying to achieve by stalling. Do other people just accept an inferior (and in this case, dangerous) product, one that doesn't even remotely perform as it was designed? Does Cadillac just hope we go away and not bother them anymore? The longer they draw this out, the worse it gets. They clearly don't see it that way.
I get all riled up just thinking about it. Not only have they lost me as a customer, anyone who reads these boards who were on the fence, have stated Cadillac is off their list, too.
Clearly, Cadillac reads these boards, as they've sent me a message as a result. Clearly, they don't care how bad the car is, or how unhappy they've made me.
Off the soap box......
Why worry about silly things like customer satisfaction when you have Uncle Bush and Uncle Obama in your back pocket ready to shell out 50 billion in taxpayer money at the drop of a hat. Fly your private jets to DC and beg for money, get slapped on the wrist, scolded by Congress, but you'll get what you want anyway. I'll withstand an hour or two of being scolded by the House of Reps for 50 billion.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My issue is not that somebody is or is not a GM fan. We all come in different stripes. It's just that every time a negative statement about GM is made, there is a sure response alleging lack of fairness. Not just being wrong, or having a different experience, that's insufficient. Whoever doesn't like GM, does so either either due to ill intentions, or are swayed by equally ill-intentioned media coverage. I did not see similarly charged responses from non-GM people, at least not here . There may be some other forums, where similar responses are for other brands, just not here and that's just a fact.
BTW, I'm not saying that ALL GM fans are like that, but there is enough of them to fill forums with those types of responses.
I don't see those responses for other makes. But then again, I don't see the level of GM bashing either. Do you see posters calling Ford or Chrysler or BMW or whomever "evil" and "unethical" and "zombies"?
Me neither. But we have seen that here to describe GM's actions in GG's case.
Let's look at the record.
I think this is the heart of the matter:
"I explained the issues probably 3 times to different people yesterday. One lady stated...."so the dealers told you the car was operating as designed?"
"Nope...no one told me that because the car certainly DOES NOT operate as designed. They said they couldn't fix it because the car didn't show a code to tell them what to fix."
Shortly after that, the dealer service manager called me and wanted me to bring the car back in. For what, I don't know given his staff were the ones who told me that not only could they not diagnose the problem, but they couldn't fix it, either. He wanted me to give the dealership another shot so they could keep it a few days. As I told him, I would drop it off today but am leaving for a business trip tomorrow and wouldn't be back until late next week. That was a "non-starter" since he said he could not let me have a loaner car for that long.
OK>...back to square one then.
GM people called me back, wanting to know what I wanted them to do. I told them to buy the car back. They asked if they could give me another car, if that would suffice. No...not after the service debacle I've had with the current one."
The response after talking to "the lady from GM" is exactly what one expects. The service manager calls the customer and requests the car. But he doesn't get access to it. The loaner car business never did make any sense to me and still doesn't. Then - I think most of us missed this - they offered to replace the car, for the second time no less. But that was not acceptable either. The only solution is cash. Given that the desired outcome is a buy-back, I guess there is no incentive to actually fix it now, for either side.
And, away we went with...
"A so called luxury car dealer who won't supply you with a loaner when you have a problem like this just seems idiotic on their part. Old habits die hard I guess."
And "GG's dealers(and Cadillac) appear to be taking the approach that they've done all they can do, so tough luck for GG. That's completely unacceptable."
"I would think it's still close enough to the GM ignition circus that they (Cadillac) would be trying to take care of any issues that even smell like a safety issue. Sounds like the beancounters are still in charge at GM."
And this gem: "The true heart of an evil empire/company never changes. True colors are finally shining through all of the bailout marketing mumbo jumbo!"
Along with: "Wolves in Sheep's clothing.
Or a lesson in why it's best to let a colossal failure fail. GM and Chrysler are like living vampires or zombies, only wanting to suck out all the blood (money) they can before they are killed off for good." and "Why would he want another unreliable piece of garbage that will surely need warranty issues fixed in the future. "
Nice of you to include Chrysler in that, at least.
"The dealerships have already proven unethical, incompetent, and uncooperative (the loaner thing is especially outrageous)."
But that wasn't enough for this poster, so he piled on with "What you describe above is the difference in cultures from a REAL car company to a disposable "temp" car maker subsidized by the government and paid to survive by taxpayers. Like a BIC razor, GM cars are purposely designed, built, and engineered to be short-term temporary uses, and to fail right after the warranty expires. Sometimes they miss the mark and what is happening to you happens before the warranty is out, and they just act like spoiled rotten children."
Glad you've done that analysis for us.
Back to another member of the chorus: "Just before GM went down I believe they came out with 10 year 100,000 mile warranties, if I remember correctly.
I kept thinking, of course they can do that, if they sell enough cars they can carry on for a few more years, if they go under thay won't have to honor the warranty anyway.
They had nothing to lose at that point, and may get some cash in their hands to keep going.
Now, they are back to that game, try to get some cash in hand, try to minimize any outflow by ignoring warranty claims.
That customer service rep who didn't leave a number makes me wonder too, instead of "Customer Service" it should be called "Frontline for Stonewalling Customer Issues"."
"I don't mean to say that's just GM, but the players do seem repeat offenders and while you can find "horror" stories about everybody, it seems some have significantly more than others. Then you always hear those lythanies of promises from those guys, but when it push comes to shove, the short term gain wins. You always hear the same song - we heard you, we changed, we strive to be the best. Then it turns out they didn't change. Yes, they might have improved some things, but the real change is away and may never really happen."
Then the supporting members of the chorus chimed in:
"What Cadillac is doing to GG is beyond ridiculous. "What do you want us to do?", they say."
Which may be a perfectly reasonable response if we knew what prompted it. But no matter:
"Now, count me as another member of the bandwagon who will avoid GM for any future purchases."
"same ol' GM. Let the bean counters rule the day while customer satisfaction goes to the dogs."
Followed by a hearty "right on!".
Yeah, it's just like every other manufacturer gets treated here.
The best I can figure out is this: GG got stuck with bad cars and bad dealer experiences. That is absolutely not acceptable. GM replaced the first car, and offered to replace the second. GG wants cash, not a replacement. OK, that's his right. Recognize that isn't going to happen overnight or over the phone. As that plays out, it makes no sense to rehash all this or bash the company. From a corporate point of view they have done pretty much everything they can do short of writing a cheque - which still may happen. All the rest of it is just noise. And for some, an opportunity to dredge up all their stereotypes and slurs towards GM, because that's what they do.
asking if the owner was looking for a replacement and offering to drive one out to them is not quite the same thing! More like trying to figure out what the target was.
Went out this a.m. to go to the airport. Wife had to use her Accord for a Dr's appot. So, I pulled the CTS out of the garage. Within 2 miles, it stalled, right after the power steering stopped..almost like the power steering was putting too big of a strain on the engine. It started again (after a lot of craking) but would stall at the next red light. Called Cadillac "Help Line". They said to have it towed to the dealer, but warned if they couldn't find anything wrong (as in "no code" routine), I'd be on the hook for the tow.
Nursed it back to my garage. Missed my flight. Going to have to get a rental in a few minutes.
And it continues.......
Be on the hook for the tow???? I'd of told them to "sue me," or "see you in court!" I'd be angry having that pile of crap paper weight on my property; I'd of had it towed to them to sit on their lot and argue about towing fees rather than be angered by having it in my sight and on my property.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I agree with car naught. I have way too much emotional involvement to get cut off now!
Same here- vent away!!!
I third that.
I about 10th that!
I want to know every detail. That is the way we learn and move forward. Burying one's head in the sand or being afraid to say something because it may offend someone is not a solution.
GG is just giving us the facts. Is he supposed to stop "venting" because some GM fans are offended?
I have heard negative comments about brands I know and love...I wouldn't take it personally. I'd rather know the facts.
But, I still don't understand why the Caddie isn't at the dealers service department.
Exactly, I"m an Audi Fan nowadays, but I'm not so stuck with my head in the sand that I'm not keeping all my receipts, work orders, warranty requests and other paper work neatly and orderly filed. I know that with Audi I just may need to have all my ducks in a row if the "stuff" ever hits the fan. Fortunately for me, my Honda's and Audi's have cost so little in maintenance, I cite them as the reason I was able to afford the two Audi's. If you put $100 away for maintenance repair issues every month, and never have to use hardly any of it; that adds up quickly.
I've never had a car cost nearly as much as the Dodge to keep running, and that is hilarious because that was the cheapest car I've ever owned by far. There's a saying in Spanish that "the cheap ends up being and costing the most expensive" That's the truest saying in my case. I would bet the Farm that a pre-owned R8 would have a lower TRUE COST TO OWN per mile than the Neon (not including opportunity costs; because you could afford a half dozen new Neon's with one R8 and surely one of the 6 would run on any given Sunday, or would it ???
Unless someone is a disgruntled former employee of the company they are bashing, they most likely have every good and reasonable reason to be bashing them. Something tells me we won't see Wagoner bashing GM anytime soon though.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I'd agree a lot of what GM has done towards GG is just noise. The main noise is anything other than "here is your check for $$$$, as you requested," or " here is your check for 85% of the $$$ you requested, and here's are reasons why (1, 2, 3,)"
Anything else is just stalling, stonewalling, and noise. There is no reason GM can't write GG a check for the faulty vehicle without dragging the process out months. A check could be written by GM or the dealership within 24 hours I'm sure. Just noise. A check for 50% or 75% in advance would be a show of "good faith" while the details are worked out.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
AB...I don't doubt what you state. So, if that's the case, why did they report they replaced the power steering unit and gears when I first reported the problem? Then, they denied there was a probelm.
Fact is, I was pretty high on this car until it started having problems. I even reported that here.
I wish this was a simple case of buyer's remorse (actually, at this juncture, I am remorseful I bought this car, now that I think about it). I have given Cadillac multiple opportunities to fix the car. Clearly, they've failed. The time for that has passed.
I don't need anyone to sympahtize, empathize or even agree with me. Cadillac has failed me, with a product that their dealers can't/won't fix, and/or that Cadillac corporate doesn't care about, regardless of their nifty slogans. Honestly, I think the car is unsafe. So, I'm to blame for trying to drive it.
Look, I know that some of you are brand loyal. I get that. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I don't have any desire to "punish" a person, a brand, a model of car. This is a HUGE hassle for me. I missed a day of meetings today because of this nonsense. It doesn't affect you, at all.
I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you.
We are all pulling for you and hope your case is resolved to your satisfaction. While your frustration is understandable, it does not appear that you gave Cadillac a reasonable opportunity to remedy the indicated problems. Locking the vehicle in your garage or continuing to drive it, albeit defective, is not easy to understand. This is an intractable and inflexible stance that can only be resolved by arbitration.
Nevertheless, as others have said please continue to share the unfolding details of this saga.
I don't agree. It's the chicken and the egg scenario here. I don't believe GG has turned down an offer to be given a loaner for "however long it takes" to get his car fixed correctly. If GM is the first one to be intractable and inflexible then sometimes the only correct response is to be intractable and inflexible as well.
From what I understand, GM only wants to attempt to fix his car again if they don't have to provide a loaner, or if they can simply say "no code, come pick up your vehicle" only to have it stall on the way out again. Too many limitations and conditions coming from GM in my opinion. They are not truly cooperating.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I appreciate your point about people disliking GM and sometimes not giving them a fair shake. This actually may be true. However, why do you think that is? Is that a media conspiracy? Prejudice without cause? Is it possible that somehow GM earned that lack of benefit of the doubt on part of those who don't like them? Too many people let down, so they and their friends just don't want to have anything to do with them? Is it possible that somehow GM earned this unfair attitude from public through too long of subpar product and even worse customer treatment with spevial treat of taking our money (no, they did not pay it back, they used some creative accounting to support that claim) and blatantly violating 100-year bankruptcy law in favor for political expediency?
I'm sure every brand has its antagonists, people who simply can't stand it for being let down, but why, oh why GM is so far ahead of everybody else? I wouldn't touch Chrysler, I would use Toyota or GM only as a rental, Ford is not a hero of my songs., either. But I admit, I do have some special aversion to GM. So this must be a conspiracy, right? we all work for those foreign companies, you aptly exposed all of us.
But Dino, we should just all give these bailed-out failed business models of car companies another chance, give them a try, give them your money, they've changed say some here, surely if everyone listens and gives them another chance perhaps they won't need another bailout for at least 30 years! (if Chrysler can last that long without one surely anyone can?)?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
ab said: My issue is not that somebody is or is not a GM fan. We all come in different stripes. It's just that every time a negative statement about GM is made, there is a sure response alleging lack of fairness. Not just being wrong, or having a different experience, that's insufficient. Whoever doesn't like GM, does so either either due to ill intentions, or are swayed by equally ill-intentioned media coverage. I did not see similarly charged responses from non-GM people, at least not here . There may be some other forums, where similar responses are for other brands, just not here and that's just a fact.
The best I can figure out is this: GG got stuck with bad cars and bad dealer experiences. That is absolutely not acceptable. GM replaced the first car, and offered to replace the second. GG wants cash, not a replacement. OK, that's his right. Recognize that isn't going to happen overnight or over the phone. As that plays out, it makes no sense to rehash all this or bash the company. From a corporate point of view they have done pretty much everything they can do short of writing a cheque - which still may happen. All the rest of it is just noise. And for some, an opportunity to dredge up all their stereotypes and slurs towards GM, because that's what they do
.
Very well constructed post ab and with factual quotes that you dissected nicely. Actually, an enjoyable read and I like the fact you didn't use names. You have made your points well, but, just a few things to consider.
*The car is acting up and is unsafe to drive. The dealer should have worked with GG in every way possible to get that car back into the shop. And, if they can't solve the problem corporate should be there to find out why.
*From my understanding...the dealer said the problem (steering, engine conking out, electronics) doesn't show up as a code so can't be repaired. How is this possible?
*If, GG did ask for a refund before the car was given a final examination, then I would agree, very few companies are going to give you cash back for any big ticket item, after you have bought it. But, it seems from the sound of things, GG gave the dealer - in fact 2 dealers a chance to fix his car, they said they can't fix it, and he is stuck....and no help coming from corporate.
As I said, and I won't say it ever again, I think the car should have been left at the dealers so there is no question they could have tried to fix it, but still, I don't think GG is making this up and what has happened isn't nice. I am an equal opportunity basher...as long as it is from first hand knowledge, and this was, and so was our Audi and our Volvo..
Power windows in early-2000s VWs were all bad due to a design flaw. A clip of some sort that was used to attach the mechanism to the door structure invariably failed.
My sister's Forester is pushing 190k and she's also here in TN visiting Mom. And she's car shopping. MINI, CrossTrek.... I asked her if she'd be interested in a VW and got to hear the power window rant again, plus her CEL was always on. That said, she'd love an Audi.
(btw, my Mom is 93 and her biggest complaint is that her eyes are so bad she can't read anymore. She's got plenty of other issues, but is doing pretty good overall. Must have been the 50 years of smoking!).
If she gets an Audi tell her to get an automatic. Those clutches can be expensive to fix. An Audi is as much fun as you can have driving a car - dollar for dollar - just, could get expensive.
I wouldn't know the cost of a DSG dual clutch Audi Transmission as I have never needed to replace mine, but I only drove it for 106,000 miles for less than 8 years, and never mind that I tracked it for numerous weekend outings.
I do know my friends CVT in the Altima didn't last but about half that mileage, but that's OK, cause Nissan paid for it, right?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I have had good and bad GM products. I wanted to give them another go at it with a Cadillac CTS being considered when it comes time for replacement of my current lease ending at the end of October. Reading about GG's experience with his CTS has made me reverse that thinking. Sorry that the negative comments about Cadillac and GM have offended, but it just seems to me that their slogans about caring about their products are just lip service. In the case of GG's situation it just seems like they're sitting on their hands. Until there is some definite resolution to the matter, acceptable to both sides, I can't help believing that they're trying to wait him out hoping that he'll tire of it and ditch the car. Until that mindset it's been proven wrong, I can't get enthused about owning another Cadillac.
Power windows in early-2000s VWs were all bad due to a design flaw. A clip of some sort that was used to attach the mechanism to the door structure invariably failed.
My sister's Forester is pushing 190k and she's also here in TN visiting Mom. And she's car shopping. MINI, CrossTrek.... I asked her if she'd be interested in a VW and got to hear the power window rant again, plus her CEL was always on. That said, she'd love an Audi.
(btw, my Mom is 93 and her biggest complaint is that her eyes are so bad she can't read anymore. She's got plenty of other issues, but is doing pretty good overall. Must have been the 50 years of smoking!).
If she gets an Audi tell her to get an automatic. Those clutches can be expensive to fix. An Audi is as much fun as you can have driving a car - dollar for dollar - just, could get expensive.
I wouldn't know the cost of a DSG dual clutch Audi Transmission as I have never needed to replace mine,
I haven't seen GG "vent". He has simply kept us up to date on what is happening.
I have followed GG's posts for years and consider him to be level headed and upfront with every post he makes.
If he lived nearby I would be honored to be his friend.
Craig...I'm humbled by your statement and happy to call you Friend. Thank you!
Truth is, there really isn't anyone here that I wouldn't love to sit down and have a beer with.
Since you guys are interested, I'll keep you informed. If not interested, my intent is not to denigrate your car, or you as a person. Please, don't denigrate me or minimize this situation, either. It's unwarranted. It doesn't change anything. And, said it before, I'll say it again, I've given them chances to fix my car. I won't give them yet another opprtunity to disappoint me again.
Power windows in early-2000s VWs were all bad due to a design flaw. A clip of some sort that was used to attach the mechanism to the door structure invariably failed.
My sister's Forester is pushing 190k and she's also here in TN visiting Mom. And she's car shopping. MINI, CrossTrek.... I asked her if she'd be interested in a VW and got to hear the power window rant again, plus her CEL was always on. That said, she'd love an Audi.
(btw, my Mom is 93 and her biggest complaint is that her eyes are so bad she can't read anymore. She's got plenty of other issues, but is doing pretty good overall. Must have been the 50 years of smoking!).
If she gets an Audi tell her to get an automatic. Those clutches can be expensive to fix. An Audi is as much fun as you can have driving a car - dollar for dollar - just, could get expensive.
I wouldn't know the cost of a DSG dual clutch Audi Transmission as I have never needed to replace mine,
Ours went after 9000 miles, cost to repair $2300.
The 9,000 miles is horrible, but given it was a manual transmission clutch with 6 gears right? If that's all correct the price seems reasonable. A 3-speed/3 gear automatic Neon transmission cost nearly half that to repair/rebuild. $/gear seems OK. Now, should there be economy of scale with more gears? Maybe.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Power windows in early-2000s VWs were all bad due to a design flaw. A clip of some sort that was used to attach the mechanism to the door structure invariably failed.
My sister's Forester is pushing 190k and she's also here in TN visiting Mom. And she's car shopping. MINI, CrossTrek.... I asked her if she'd be interested in a VW and got to hear the power window rant again, plus her CEL was always on. That said, she'd love an Audi.
(btw, my Mom is 93 and her biggest complaint is that her eyes are so bad she can't read anymore. She's got plenty of other issues, but is doing pretty good overall. Must have been the 50 years of smoking!).
If she gets an Audi tell her to get an automatic. Those clutches can be expensive to fix. An Audi is as much fun as you can have driving a car - dollar for dollar - just, could get expensive.
I wouldn't know the cost of a DSG dual clutch Audi Transmission as I have never needed to replace mine,
Ours went after 9000 miles, cost to repair $2300.
The 9,000 miles is horrible, but given it was a manual transmission clutch with 6 gears right? If that's all correct the price seems reasonable. A 3-speed/3 gear automatic Neon transmission cost nearly half that to repair/rebuild. $/gear seems OK. Now, should there be economy of scale with more gears? Maybe.
I should add, that is CDN $$$s, so 20% less =about $1800 - $1700 US.
I am not sure if 6 gears manual translates to 3 gears automatic.
I was thinking of all the cars I cycled through over the years (especially in the early days), and was kind of shocked to realize I only ever owned 1 GM (well, 1 I registered).
my first car was a '67 Camaro (special liteweight model. thanks to all the rust). Kept that about 3 months in HS, then got rid of it to get a stick shift car. Since then, I bought a Nova, but ended up selling it shortly after, without ever driving it (had issues).
since the 70's, no more GMs unless I am forgetting something! Heck, I had 2 AMCs!
oh wait, I forgot about my Opel. That was GM too. and that made it into the 80s.
"Truth is, there really isn't anyone here that I wouldn't love to sit down and have a beer with."
GG - you wouldn't want to sit down with me and have a beer - undoubtedly before we got halfway through the Yuenglings, some crisis would arise in my life that would force me to leave and come to a family member's aid!
GG, I'm at the edge of my chair awaiting the next installment. This is better than Judge Judy. I just wish it had a fast forward so we can see who pays the profit. That's all it is. Price of car plus profit. GG wants GM to eat the profit already paid and GM wants the guy who already paid the profit to take yet another Caddy in trade so the profit stays where it is.
I appreciate your point about people disliking GM and sometimes not giving them a fair shake. This actually may be true. However, why do you think that is? Is that a media conspiracy? Prejudice without cause? Is it possible that somehow GM earned that lack of benefit of the doubt on part of those who don't like them? Too many people let down, so they and their friends just don't want to have anything to do with them? Is it possible that somehow GM earned this unfair attitude from public through too long of subpar product and even worse customer treatment with spevial treat of taking our money (no, they did not pay it back, they used some creative accounting to support that claim) and blatantly violating 100-year bankruptcy law in favor for political expediency?
I'm sure every brand has its antagonists, people who simply can't stand it for being let down, but why, oh why GM is so far ahead of everybody else? I wouldn't touch Chrysler, I would use Toyota or GM only as a rental, Ford is not a hero of my songs., either. But I admit, I do have some special aversion to GM. So this must be a conspiracy, right? we all work for those foreign companies, you aptly exposed all of us.
I don't know exactly why all the animus for GM. Surely for some the government rescue is something they will never forgive. OK, I get that, you don't like it. That was 5 years ago, let's move on. Maybe it will take 30 or 40 years like it did with the countries who were trying to kill us in WWII, who knows.
I am old enough to remember when cars of the 1960s were introduced. GM was the unquestioned leader back then. In the '70s the rot started to set in, but it did for the rest of the domestic makes too. Chrysler went bust in 1980 and got government loans. GM and Ford and Chrysler all made some pretty dull cars in the '80s and '90s. The imports were the darlings of the automotive press. Some of it was deserved. Some of it could have been due to the way their press agents worked. I have no idea. In the early 2000s most GM cars were not as good as they could have been because of bad management. All those people are gone now. Time to stop beating that dead horse.
Opel? Hey that reminds me of the Opel GT that I bought in 1978, it was a few years old, to commute from Sonoma County to San Francisco. Great little car. Looked like a scaled down Corvette Stingray. Drove it for a year, then sold it for what I paid for it. Bright blue with black vinyl. Loved it.
Opel GT that I bought in 1978, it was a few years old, to commute from Sonoma County to San Francisco. Great little car. Looked like a scaled down Corvette Stingray. .
I always liked the way those looked. Corvette like.
Mike - Ha! At least you still have your sense of humor!
Graphicguy - this is a seriously screwed up situation. I'm quite sure your CTS is fixable, but it is absurd that Cadillac & the dealer are not willing to put the time & effort into it. They should be embarrassed that you are not driving around in a loaner car. You shouldn't have had to go through the agony of trying to drive a broken car to the airport, then nursing it home in limp mode, all the while missing your flight.
My best friend currently has (2) 2015 Tahoes. These are his 3rd & 4th. His first was a 2009. At around 30K miles or so he noticed a shudder while accelerating moderately between 35 & 50 mph. First it happened only while going uphill on really hot days. The dealer kept telling him they couldn't find the problem because no code was being thrown. They blamed everything from bad gasoline to him using 1 tank of E85. They told him he was imagining the problem. They changed the air filter, the spark plugs, they told him he needed to do an "induction system cleaning," and he needed to change his transmission fluid, the cylinder deactivation was no good... It finally got to the point where he involved GM and the service manager wouldn't return his phone calls (my friend is seriously OCD and DOES NOT GIVE UP). He would run to the dealership whenever the truck started shaking. Finally he got the service manager and head service technician into his truck and they hooked a laptop up to his OBD-II port. They drove around until the problem surfaced. They started shutting things down while he was driving trying to isolate the problem. Finally after hours of driving up & down the same hill, they figured out it was the torque converter. GM reimbursed him all of the money he spent at the dealership on "cleanings" & "transmission fluid changes" as well as (I think) 2 payments. They swapped out his torque converter and then it ran great.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I appreciate your point about people disliking GM and sometimes not giving them a fair shake. This actually may be true. However, why do you think that is? Is that a media conspiracy? Prejudice without cause? Is it possible that somehow GM earned that lack of benefit of the doubt on part of those who don't like them? Too many people let down, so they and their friends just don't want to have anything to do with them? Is it possible that somehow GM earned this unfair attitude from public through too long of subpar product and even worse customer treatment with spevial treat of taking our money (no, they did not pay it back, they used some creative accounting to support that claim) and blatantly violating 100-year bankruptcy law in favor for political expediency?
I'm sure every brand has its antagonists, people who simply can't stand it for being let down, but why, oh why GM is so far ahead of everybody else? I wouldn't touch Chrysler, I would use Toyota or GM only as a rental, Ford is not a hero of my songs., either. But I admit, I do have some special aversion to GM. So this must be a conspiracy, right? we all work for those foreign companies, you aptly exposed all of us.
I don't know exactly why all the animus for GM. Surely for some the government rescue is something they will never forgive. OK, I get that, you don't like it. That was 5 years ago, let's move on. Maybe it will take 30 or 40 years like it did with the countries who were trying to kill us in WWII, who knows.
I am old enough to remember when cars of the 1960s were introduced. GM was the unquestioned leader back then. In the '70s the rot started to set in, but it did for the rest of the domestic makes too. Chrysler went bust in 1980 and got government loans. GM and Ford and Chrysler all made some pretty dull cars in the '80s and '90s. The imports were the darlings of the automotive press. Some of it was deserved. Some of it could have been due to the way their press agents worked. I have no idea. In the early 2000s most GM cars were not as good as they could have been because of bad management. All those people are gone now. Time to stop beating that dead horse.
Five years is still fresh, especially when it was preceded by over 20 years of decline and disapointment. I think all domestics were clinging to old ways and former glory, unable to adapt to rapidly changing reality and always having a lythany of excuses ready to go by both management and supporters, from currency manipulation, to unions, to hostile press, to what else. At the end, the "strategy" of head in the sand actually worked very well. While top management may be new, the old one did not give money back, enjoys cushy retirement, some are still giving appearances on TV shows from position of highly regarded expertise (Lutz, for example), never admitting any fault. What bothers me is not really the bailout itself, those happened to more than one companies, but breaking the law in bankruptcy proceedings, combined with villifying bondholders, especially as some predators, because as we all know, teacher pension fund of Indiana is well known for being worst of the vultures.
The problem with American auto was that it was the very last industry that noticed the changes. All other similar companies, like Caterpillar, Deere, Boeing, Cummins, United Tech, etc. were somehow able to change ten-twenty years before, but GM or Chrysler couldn't be bothered.
Mike - Ha! At least you still have your sense of humor!
Graphicguy - this is a seriously screwed up situation. I'm quite sure your CTS is fixable, but it is absurd that Cadillac & the dealer are not willing to put the time & effort into it. They should be embarrassed that you are not driving around in a loaner car. You shouldn't have had to go through the agony of trying to drive a broken car to the airport, then nursing it home in limp mode, all the while missing your flight.
My best friend currently has (2) 2015 Tahoes. These are his 3rd & 4th. His first was a 2009. At around 30K miles or so he noticed a shudder while accelerating moderately between 35 & 50 mph. First it happened only while going uphill on really hot days. The dealer kept telling him they couldn't find the problem because no code was being thrown. They blamed everything from bad gasoline to him using 1 tank of E85. They told him he was imagining the problem. They changed the air filter, the spark plugs, they told him he needed to do an "induction system cleaning," and he needed to change his transmission fluid, the cylinder deactivation was no good... It finally got to the point where he involved GM and the service manager wouldn't return his phone calls (my friend is seriously OCD and DOES NOT GIVE UP). He would run to the dealership whenever the truck started shaking. Finally he got the service manager and head service technician into his truck and they hooked a laptop up to his OBD-II port. They drove around until the problem surfaced. They started shutting things down while he was driving trying to isolate the problem. Finally after hours of driving up & down the same hill, they figured out it was the torque converter. GM reimbursed him all of the money he spent at the dealership on "cleanings" & "transmission fluid changes" as well as (I think) 2 payments. They swapped out his torque converter and then it ran great.
This example is the heart of things. No code, no problem, you are imagining things. I think it all boils down to the lazy attitude, ineptness and lack of real incentives to avtually help the customer. It's highly profitable to plug a aptop for two minutes and charge half hour to the system. How do you expense hours in the car on the warranty? Unless a smoking gun us handed to them, they're not paid to look for it. If a problem is just an irritation then you are only losing comfort, when it's stalling on the highway or busy intersection, then you are truly out of luck.
Comments
There certainly was no misunderstanding in the negotiations and agreed-to lease payment, even though approximate. It was a "bait" offer and then a "switch" in payment and attitude on the dealer's part. You did the right thing, of course!
That is one dealership I would never do business with. Even if they call back and meet your numbers, in the end they will make your life miserable.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Fact is, I was pretty high on this car until it started having problems. I even reported that here.
I wish this was a simple case of buyer's remorse (actually, at this juncture, I am remorseful I bought this car, now that I think about it). I have given Cadillac multiple opportunities to fix the car. Clearly, they've failed. The time for that has passed.
I don't need anyone to sympahtize, empathize or even agree with me. Cadillac has failed me, with a product that their dealers can't/won't fix, and/or that Cadillac corporate doesn't care about, regardless of their nifty slogans. Honestly, I think the car is unsafe. So, I'm to blame for trying to drive it.
Look, I know that some of you are brand loyal. I get that. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I don't have any desire to "punish" a person, a brand, a model of car. This is a HUGE hassle for me. I missed a day of meetings today because of this nonsense. It doesn't affect you, at all.
I vented my frustration here. I won't do that anymore given it seems to upset some of you.
Let us know if you find another dalers who's willing to work with you.
Good luck!
I say, please continue to share your experience with us. You are doing both yourself and us a favor by doing so. It is therapeutic and cathartic for you to articulate your frustration on the matter with fellow car enthusiasts. We, at the same time, are teaching each other how to respond to a seemingly insoluble situation. It is also pointing out which car brands should be avoided, or least approached with caution.
As for the possible offense to brand loyalists, I think you owe no apologies for your verbalizing your situation. You deserve empathy, consideration and intelligent exchange of information. Those offended may feel free to abstain from involvement in your issue.
I think I can say this for most of us: we care.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
However, the moment anything negative shows up about GM, there is a barrage of angry responses basically alleging this is another attack in gross injustice campaign waged against GM for more than a quarter of the century. Before we know it, GG will be a paid foreign brand shill, who made all this stuff up.
I know, I'm exaggerating, just for the rhetoric sake. But it does seem like many of GM loyalist are much more angry at the rest of the world than any of the other loyalists.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I, personally, have nothing against GM or FORD or CHRYSLER. I have real doubts about Cadillac, Audi, etc., based on what I have read here and other places - people's experiences with their cars after buying them and the service they receive. Driver and GG have had real world experiences and they need to vent. So let them vent.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2018 430i Gran Coupe
BTW, I'm not saying that ALL GM fans are like that, but there is enough of them to fill forums with those types of responses.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I have followed GG's posts for years and consider him to be level headed and upfront with every post he makes.
If he lived nearby I would be honored to be his friend.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I want to know every detail. That is the way we learn and move forward. Burying one's head in the sand or being afraid to say something because it may offend someone is not a solution.
GG is just giving us the facts. Is he supposed to stop "venting" because some GM fans are offended?
I have heard negative comments about brands I know and love...I wouldn't take it personally. I'd rather know the facts.
But, I still don't understand why the Caddie isn't at the dealers service department.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We are all pulling for you and hope your case is resolved to your satisfaction. While your frustration is understandable, it does not appear that you gave Cadillac a reasonable opportunity to remedy the indicated problems. Locking the vehicle in your garage or continuing to drive it, albeit defective, is not easy to understand. This is an intractable and inflexible stance that can only be resolved by arbitration.
Nevertheless, as others have said please continue to share the unfolding details of this saga.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Saw a new IS250 in maroon earlier and it was very striking...my neighbor got a dark gray one which he seems to really like. Lexus seems to be on a roll lately and I did almost buy a cpo unit last year.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The one Lexus I actually like is the ES. That is nice!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Me neither. But we have seen that here to describe GM's actions in GG's case.
Let's look at the record.
I think this is the heart of the matter:
"I explained the issues probably 3 times to different people yesterday. One lady stated...."so the dealers told you the car was operating as designed?"
"Nope...no one told me that because the car certainly DOES NOT operate as designed. They said they couldn't fix it because the car didn't show a code to tell them what to fix."
Shortly after that, the dealer service manager called me and wanted me to bring the car back in. For what, I don't know given his staff were the ones who told me that not only could they not diagnose the problem, but they couldn't fix it, either. He wanted me to give the dealership another shot so they could keep it a few days. As I told him, I would drop it off today but am leaving for a business trip tomorrow and wouldn't be back until late next week. That was a "non-starter" since he said he could not let me have a loaner car for that long.
OK>...back to square one then.
GM people called me back, wanting to know what I wanted them to do. I told them to buy the car back. They asked if they could give me another car, if that would suffice. No...not after the service debacle I've had with the current one."
The response after talking to "the lady from GM" is exactly what one expects. The service manager calls the customer and requests the car. But he doesn't get access to it. The loaner car business never did make any sense to me and still doesn't. Then - I think most of us missed this - they offered to replace the car, for the second time no less. But that was not acceptable either. The only solution is cash. Given that the desired outcome is a buy-back, I guess there is no incentive to actually fix it now, for either side.
And, away we went with...
"A so called luxury car dealer who won't supply you with a loaner when you have a problem like this just seems idiotic on their part. Old habits die hard I guess."
And "GG's dealers(and Cadillac) appear to be taking the approach that they've done all they can do, so tough luck for GG. That's completely unacceptable."
"I would think it's still close enough to the GM ignition circus that they (Cadillac) would be trying to take care of any issues that even smell like a safety issue. Sounds like the beancounters are still in charge at GM."
And this gem: "The true heart of an evil empire/company never changes. True colors are finally shining through all of the bailout marketing mumbo jumbo!"
Along with: "Wolves in Sheep's clothing.
Or a lesson in why it's best to let a colossal failure fail. GM and Chrysler are like living vampires or zombies, only wanting to suck out all the blood (money) they can before they are killed off for good." and "Why would he want another unreliable piece of garbage that will surely need warranty issues fixed in the future. "
Nice of you to include Chrysler in that, at least.
"The dealerships have already proven unethical, incompetent, and uncooperative (the loaner thing is especially outrageous)."
But that wasn't enough for this poster, so he piled on with "What you describe above is the difference in cultures from a REAL car company to a disposable "temp" car maker subsidized by the government and paid to survive by taxpayers. Like a BIC razor, GM cars are purposely designed, built, and engineered to be short-term temporary uses, and to fail right after the warranty expires. Sometimes they miss the mark and what is happening to you happens before the warranty is out, and they just act like spoiled rotten children."
Glad you've done that analysis for us.
Back to another member of the chorus: "Just before GM went down I believe they came out with 10 year 100,000 mile warranties, if I remember correctly.
I kept thinking, of course they can do that, if they sell enough cars they can carry on for a few more years, if they go under thay won't have to honor the warranty anyway.
They had nothing to lose at that point, and may get some cash in their hands to keep going.
Now, they are back to that game, try to get some cash in hand, try to minimize any outflow by ignoring warranty claims.
That customer service rep who didn't leave a number makes me wonder too, instead of "Customer Service" it should be called "Frontline for Stonewalling Customer Issues"."
"I don't mean to say that's just GM, but the players do seem repeat offenders and while you can find "horror" stories about everybody, it seems some have significantly more than others. Then you always hear those lythanies of promises from those guys, but when it push comes to shove, the short term gain wins. You always hear the same song - we heard you, we changed, we strive to be the best. Then it turns out they didn't change. Yes, they might have improved some things, but the real change is away and may never really happen."
Then the supporting members of the chorus chimed in:
"What Cadillac is doing to GG is beyond ridiculous. "What do you want us to do?", they say."
Which may be a perfectly reasonable response if we knew what prompted it. But no matter:
"Now, count me as another member of the bandwagon who will avoid GM for any future purchases."
"same ol' GM. Let the bean counters rule the day while customer satisfaction goes to the dogs."
Followed by a hearty "right on!".
Yeah, it's just like every other manufacturer gets treated here.
The best I can figure out is this: GG got stuck with bad cars and bad dealer experiences. That is absolutely not acceptable. GM replaced the first car, and offered to replace the second. GG wants cash, not a replacement. OK, that's his right. Recognize that isn't going to happen overnight or over the phone. As that plays out, it makes no sense to rehash all this or bash the company. From a corporate point of view they have done pretty much everything they can do short of writing a cheque - which still may happen. All the rest of it is just noise. And for some, an opportunity to dredge up all their stereotypes and slurs towards GM, because that's what they do.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I've never had a car cost nearly as much as the Dodge to keep running, and that is hilarious because that was the cheapest car I've ever owned by far. There's a saying in Spanish that "the cheap ends up being and costing the most expensive" That's the truest saying in my case. I would bet the Farm that a pre-owned R8 would have a lower TRUE COST TO OWN per mile than the Neon (not including opportunity costs; because you could afford a half dozen new Neon's with one R8 and surely one of the 6 would run on any given Sunday, or would it
Unless someone is a disgruntled former employee of the company they are bashing, they most likely have every good and reasonable reason to be bashing them. Something tells me we won't see Wagoner bashing GM anytime soon though.
I'd agree a lot of what GM has done towards GG is just noise. The main noise is anything other than "here is your check for $$$$, as you requested," or " here is your check for 85% of the $$$ you requested, and here's are reasons why (1, 2, 3,)"
Anything else is just stalling, stonewalling, and noise. There is no reason GM can't write GG a check for the faulty vehicle without dragging the process out months. A check could be written by GM or the dealership within 24 hours I'm sure. Just noise. A check for 50% or 75% in advance would be a show of "good faith" while the details are worked out.
From what I understand, GM only wants to attempt to fix his car again if they don't have to provide a loaner, or if they can simply say "no code, come pick up your vehicle" only to have it stall on the way out again. Too many limitations and conditions coming from GM in my opinion. They are not truly cooperating.
I appreciate your point about people disliking GM and sometimes not giving them a fair shake. This actually may be true. However, why do you think that is? Is that a media conspiracy? Prejudice without cause? Is it possible that somehow GM earned that lack of benefit of the doubt on part of those who don't like them? Too many people let down, so they and their friends just don't want to have anything to do with them? Is it possible that somehow GM earned this unfair attitude from public through too long of subpar product and even worse customer treatment with spevial treat of taking our money (no, they did not pay it back, they used some creative accounting to support that claim) and blatantly violating 100-year bankruptcy law in favor for political expediency?
I'm sure every brand has its antagonists, people who simply can't stand it for being let down, but why, oh why GM is so far ahead of everybody else? I wouldn't touch Chrysler, I would use Toyota or GM only as a rental, Ford is not a hero of my songs., either. But I admit, I do have some special aversion to GM. So this must be a conspiracy, right? we all work for those foreign companies, you aptly exposed all of us.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Very well constructed post ab and with factual quotes that you dissected nicely. Actually, an enjoyable read and I like the fact you didn't use names. You have made your points well, but, just a few things to consider.
*The car is acting up and is unsafe to drive. The dealer should have worked with GG in every way possible to get that car back into the shop. And, if they can't solve the problem corporate should be there to find out why.
*From my understanding...the dealer said the problem (steering, engine conking out, electronics) doesn't show up as a code so can't be repaired. How is this possible?
*If, GG did ask for a refund before the car was given a final examination, then I would agree, very few companies are going to give you cash back for any big ticket item, after you have bought it. But, it seems from the sound of things, GG gave the dealer - in fact 2 dealers a chance to fix his car, they said they can't fix it, and he is stuck....and no help coming from corporate.
As I said, and I won't say it ever again, I think the car should have been left at the dealers so there is no question they could have tried to fix it, but still, I don't think GG is making this up and what has happened isn't nice. I am an equal opportunity basher...as long as it is from first hand knowledge, and this was, and so was our Audi and our Volvo..
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I do know my friends CVT in the Altima didn't last but about half that mileage, but that's OK, cause Nissan paid for it, right?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Truth is, there really isn't anyone here that I wouldn't love to sit down and have a beer with.
Since you guys are interested, I'll keep you informed. If not interested, my intent is not to denigrate your car, or you as a person. Please, don't denigrate me or minimize this situation, either. It's unwarranted. It doesn't change anything. And, said it before, I'll say it again, I've given them chances to fix my car. I won't give them yet another opprtunity to disappoint me again.
Tha'ts what's happening right now.
Stay tuned!
I am not sure if 6 gears manual translates to 3 gears automatic.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
my first car was a '67 Camaro (special liteweight model. thanks to all the rust). Kept that about 3 months in HS, then got rid of it to get a stick shift car. Since then, I bought a Nova, but ended up selling it shortly after, without ever driving it (had issues).
since the 70's, no more GMs unless I am forgetting something! Heck, I had 2 AMCs!
oh wait, I forgot about my Opel. That was GM too. and that made it into the 80s.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
veni, venti and we hope vici.
"Truth is, there really isn't anyone here that I wouldn't love to sit down and have a beer with."
GG - you wouldn't want to sit down with me and have a beer - undoubtedly before we got halfway through the Yuenglings, some crisis would arise in my life that would force me to leave and come to a family member's aid!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That's all it is. Price of car plus profit. GG wants GM to eat the profit already paid and GM wants the guy who already paid the profit to take yet another Caddy in trade so the profit stays where it is.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I don't know exactly why all the animus for GM. Surely for some the government rescue is something they will never forgive. OK, I get that, you don't like it. That was 5 years ago, let's move on. Maybe it will take 30 or 40 years like it did with the countries who were trying to kill us in WWII, who knows.
I am old enough to remember when cars of the 1960s were introduced. GM was the unquestioned leader back then. In the '70s the rot started to set in, but it did for the rest of the domestic makes too. Chrysler went bust in 1980 and got government loans. GM and Ford and Chrysler all made some pretty dull cars in the '80s and '90s. The imports were the darlings of the automotive press. Some of it was deserved. Some of it could have been due to the way their press agents worked. I have no idea. In the early 2000s most GM cars were not as good as they could have been because of bad management. All those people are gone now. Time to stop beating that dead horse.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Graphicguy - this is a seriously screwed up situation. I'm quite sure your CTS is fixable, but it is absurd that Cadillac & the dealer are not willing to put the time & effort into it. They should be embarrassed that you are not driving around in a loaner car. You shouldn't have had to go through the agony of trying to drive a broken car to the airport, then nursing it home in limp mode, all the while missing your flight.
My best friend currently has (2) 2015 Tahoes. These are his 3rd & 4th. His first was a 2009. At around 30K miles or so he noticed a shudder while accelerating moderately between 35 & 50 mph. First it happened only while going uphill on really hot days. The dealer kept telling him they couldn't find the problem because no code was being thrown. They blamed everything from bad gasoline to him using 1 tank of E85. They told him he was imagining the problem. They changed the air filter, the spark plugs, they told him he needed to do an "induction system cleaning," and he needed to change his transmission fluid, the cylinder deactivation was no good... It finally got to the point where he involved GM and the service manager wouldn't return his phone calls (my friend is seriously OCD and DOES NOT GIVE UP). He would run to the dealership whenever the truck started shaking. Finally he got the service manager and head service technician into his truck and they hooked a laptop up to his OBD-II port. They drove around until the problem surfaced. They started shutting things down while he was driving trying to isolate the problem. Finally after hours of driving up & down the same hill, they figured out it was the torque converter. GM reimbursed him all of the money he spent at the dealership on "cleanings" & "transmission fluid changes" as well as (I think) 2 payments. They swapped out his torque converter and then it ran great.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The problem with American auto was that it was the very last industry that noticed the changes. All other similar companies, like Caterpillar, Deere, Boeing, Cummins, United Tech, etc. were somehow able to change ten-twenty years before, but GM or Chrysler couldn't be bothered.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.