Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

ab348

imidazol97 said:

Wasn't Windows 10 supposed to be the forever Windows, with updates doing all the needed changes to keep it working well. Microfuss said it didn't like having to keep track of updates for different versions of Windows at the time, so they were transitioning everyone to the forever Windows #10.

You're lucky the computer you have is upgradeable. None of mine seem to pass the test.

At least two of mine are also not upgradeable. The 3rd is 2 years old so it might be. I don't want W11 though if I can avoid it, I have enough trouble with W10. I wonder if MS has an accurate number on what percentage of PCs are actually able to handle W11. There are a lot of old PCs out there.

stickguy

I was shocked my ancient dell desktop upgraded. My middle aged HP laptop had no issue. And shockingly, both upgraded without a glitch.

I’m happy to stay on 10, and do recall it being vastly better than prior version (7 or 8?)

jmonroe1

imidazol97 said:

Wasn't Windows 10 supposed to be the forever Windows, with updates doing all the needed changes to keep it working well. Microfuss said it didn't like having to keep track of updates for different versions of Windows at the time, so they were transitioning everyone to the forever Windows #10.

You're lucky the computer you have is upgradeable. None of mine seem to pass the test.

Windows 11 will be the last one, honest.

jmonroe

ab348

stickguy said:

I was shocked my ancient dell desktop upgraded. My middle aged HP laptop had no issue. And shockingly, both upgraded without a glitch.

I’m happy to stay on 10, and do recall it being vastly better than prior version (7 or 8?)

Win7 became rock-solid after some teething problems. Win8 was a disaster. W10 fixed a lot of 8's issues but brought a new set of its own problems and is inferior to 7 in many ways. I would have stayed with 7 if I could have, but MS dropped support and security upgrades for it.

stickguy

Thanks. Now I remember. I held on to 7 as long as possible, and avoided 8 like the plague.

sda

ab348 said:

imidazol97 said:

Wasn't Windows 10 supposed to be the forever Windows, with updates doing all the needed changes to keep it working well. Microfuss said it didn't like having to keep track of updates for different versions of Windows at the time, so they were transitioning everyone to the forever Windows #10.

You're lucky the computer you have is upgradeable. None of mine seem to pass the test.

At least two of mine are also not upgradeable. The 3rd is 2 years old so it might be. I don't want W11 though if I can avoid it, I have enough trouble with W10. I wonder if MS has an accurate number on what percentage of PCs are actually able to handle W11. There are a lot of old PCs out there.

An invisible hand forces replacement $$. Who knew...

stickguy

If my current laptop goes I would consider moving to the fruit instead.

venture

ab348 said:

imidazol97 said:

Wasn't Windows 10 supposed to be the forever Windows, with updates doing all the needed changes to keep it working well. Microfuss said it didn't like having to keep track of updates for different versions of Windows at the time, so they were transitioning everyone to the forever Windows #10.

You're lucky the computer you have is upgradeable. None of mine seem to pass the test.

At least two of mine are also not upgradeable. The 3rd is 2 years old so it might be. I don't want W11 though if I can avoid it, I have enough trouble with W10. I wonder if MS has an accurate number on what percentage of PCs are actually able to handle W11. There are a lot of old PCs out there.

From what I understand, Window 11 will come as a Windows Update item. If I click on the icon in my taskbar that's what it is. I suspect they are going to force it on us.

venture

qbrozen said:

@venture said:

Yeah. I get that. I don't know what a Tron is though.

I wasn't advocating for or against the thing. Just wanted to get the info out there.

It just has some "different" features like the wheels blink when the turn signals are used. The guidance system reminds me a lot of the one in Flight of the Navigator.

Wait… you know Flight of the Navigator but not Tron? You are joking, right?

LOL. I guess I wish I was.

explorerx4

I know those are movies, but I've never seen either of them.

venture

Well...I went and configured a TLX again, to my own dismay.

It ended up as a Type S in Black with a red interior. Horrifyingly, there is an exact match about 100 miles from me. I will be down that way over the weekend. I may stop in and have a gander. At this time of the year I think I would rather wait for a 2022.

I'm not sure I want to spend 54k on a car, and the half of a laptop sticking up out of the dashboard still bugs me.

venture

explorerx4 said:

I know those are movies, but I've never seen either of them.

My kids used to like watching Flight of the Navigator. That's where I learned about it. Cute movie.

dino001

Windows 1 - don't know
Windows 2 - too early, not worth time
Windows 3 - OK, especially 3.11
Windows 2000/Me - generally not very good up to terrible
Windows XP - OK (except requires periodic reinstallations, as it gets bloated over time)
Windows Vista - slow, obese, awful (they actually fixed it after a year or two, but the brand damage was too great to recover)
Windows 7 - OK, actually I'd say even good
Windows 8 - worst ever, failure of epic proportions
Windows 10 - OK, predictable, stable, initially awkward, but improved enough
Windows 11 - anybody venture a guess?

sda

FYI, Edmunds has a review of the new Maverick. It is a little more critical than most of the glowing reviews I've read but I think a little more realistic.

stickguy

I’ll take a look. Considering I’ll bet I’m the only person here that has actually driven one (or even checked one out in person)!

explorerx4

From Ford's October Sales report:
Sales of the all-new Maverick totaled 4,140, outselling Hyundai’s all-new Santa Cruz for the month.
Turning on dealer lots in less than 5 days, over a quarter of Maverick customers are between
the age of 18 to 35; this is more than double the overall industry rate for this age group of just 12
percent.

ab348

dino001 said:

Windows 1 - don't know
Windows 2 - too early, not worth time
Windows 3 - OK, especially 3.11
Windows 2000/Me - generally not very good up to terrible
Windows XP - OK (except requires periodic reinstallations, as it gets bloated over time)
Windows Vista - slow, obese, awful (they actually fixed it after a year or two, but the brand damage was too great to recover)
Windows 7 - OK, actually I'd say even good
Windows 8 - worst ever, failure of epic proportions
Windows 10 - OK, predictable, stable, initially awkward, but improved enough
Windows 11 - anybody venture a guess?

You left out the grandaddy of them all (in terms of the modern-day Windows), Windows 95 and its progeny, Windows 98.

The hours and hours I spent trying to get 95 to work will never be recovered.

stickguy

I read the review. You can tell the author definitely is not into anything like this. No, it’s not a loaded Santa Cruz. But it is more practical, and doesn’t cost $40k.

I think he was dissing it for basically being exactly what it is supposed to be, a compact (relatively) pickup, with lots of practicality, economical, and very affordable. Not a luxury car with a bed.

How it ultimately plays out in the market remains to be seen, but so far it’s very popular.

Considering you can get a 2.0t AWD XL (than can do 0-60 in low 6’s and pull 30 highway mpg) for $25,000, it is a huge value. The hybrid will be even better with fantastic MPG, and $2k less to buy.

dino001

ab348 said:

dino001 said:

Windows 1 - don't know
Windows 2 - too early, not worth time
Windows 3 - OK, especially 3.11
Windows 2000/Me - generally not very good up to terrible
Windows XP - OK (except requires periodic reinstallations, as it gets bloated over time)
Windows Vista - slow, obese, awful (they actually fixed it after a year or two, but the brand damage was too great to recover)
Windows 7 - OK, actually I'd say even good
Windows 8 - worst ever, failure of epic proportions
Windows 10 - OK, predictable, stable, initially awkward, but improved enough
Windows 11 - anybody venture a guess?

You left out the grandaddy of them all (in terms of the modern-day Windows), Windows 95 and its progeny, Windows 98.

The hours and hours I spent trying to get 95 to work will never be recovered.

Guilty as charged. I think it was again in the same cadence: 95 - bad, 98 - fixed up.

stickguy

I also found the ride, handling and noise level perfectly fine. Definitely as good as a lower priced CUV like an escape or Tucson. Drove much more like a car than a big truck. It is pretty basic inside though, almost retro, but add luxury package and co Pilot, and it has everything you really need, still in the 20s

sda

A Maverick XLT fwd with luxury pkg and sunroof would be a nice vehicle and modestly priced. I'm on the fence on which engine to choose. I have no need for a big beast and the versatility of the Maverick is appealing. As a rule any long distance trips we use the Q5.

Sandman6472

So glad I switched to Apple a few years back. Now, all my devices are synched and have no issues whatsoever!
Well, it's done. Went over to the Toyota store in Coconut Creek and quit my job as a shuttle driver as of now. Just not willing to continue doing it as the current vertigo I'm suffering with has made most driving unsafe. Had a lot of time to think last week while bedridden & decided the time had come to stop. They could see I was walking a bit wobbly when I stopped by. Handed my shirts in & thanked them for the opportunity to work there. But after 5 months, the time had come to stop.
Funny thing is, feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders honestly. Never knew how much I really disliked it until I decided to finally leave. First time ever quitting a job and wasn't as bad as I thought. Figured it best to leave on a positive note as no point burning one's bridges if not necessary. Working with customers grew tiresome real quick so for that alone, so glad I don't have to go back. Will I miss the extra $100 plus/week, and the answer is...NO! Can honestly say that I feel so much happier right now I can't tell ya. It was definitely the right move for now. Yay for me!!!

Sandman6472

Saw the two pre-sold Corolla Cross CUV's they had and liked them...a lot! A slightly smaller Rav4 really with the interior taken from the current Corolla sedan. Have got a feeling Toyota is going to sell a whole lot of there puppies going forward. I plan to hold off until inventories ramp up a bit plus, I want an XLE model with the JBL audio system plus a sun/moon roof as my major options. Leaning towards the pearlized white exterior or possibly the Celestial blue, having both with a light gray interior. Hoping to make a move sometime towards the end of 2022 so if it means getting a 2023 model, so be it. As much as I prefer an even numbered year vehicle, will just have to wait and see here.

roadburner

BMW Classic Car Club of America Lowcountry Tour:

kyfdx

ab348 said:

dino001 said:

Windows 1 - don't know
Windows 2 - too early, not worth time
Windows 3 - OK, especially 3.11
Windows 2000/Me - generally not very good up to terrible
Windows XP - OK (except requires periodic reinstallations, as it gets bloated over time)
Windows Vista - slow, obese, awful (they actually fixed it after a year or two, but the brand damage was too great to recover)
Windows 7 - OK, actually I'd say even good
Windows 8 - worst ever, failure of epic proportions
Windows 10 - OK, predictable, stable, initially awkward, but improved enough
Windows 11 - anybody venture a guess?

You left out the grandaddy of them all (in terms of the modern-day Windows), Windows 95 and its progeny, Windows 98.

The hours and hours I spent trying to get 95 to work will never be recovered.

Windows 98 was on my first home PC.

stickguy

sda said:

A Maverick XLT fwd with luxury pkg and sunroof would be a nice vehicle and modestly priced. I'm on the fence on which engine to choose. I have no need for a big beast and the versatility of the Maverick is appealing. As a rule any long distance trips we use the Q5.

Considering I now have that exact configuration on order, in hybrid, I agree. IMO if you are getting FWD anyway, absolutely get the hybrid.

tjc78

I remember Win 3.1 at school. It was good for the time, but has plenty of quirks.

Win 95 was basically the birth of the current Windows PC IMO. Support for video, internet explorer, easier networking etc.

Win 98 was better but not until Win 98 SE which finally got USB right.

Win ME - disaster. It basically broke any stability 98 SE had.

XP - Best OS MS ever had IMO. There is a reason it lasted for years.

Vista - Total joke… BUT the underneath was basically what 7 became.

7 - Fixed everything wrong with Vista.

8 - Another miss, but it did actually work but clunky

10 - MS trying to be Apple in many ways. At least it is very stable (on my machines anyway)

11 - No experience yet.

kyfdx

When I retired in 2016, my company's PCs were still running on XP

stickguy

My company went very long on XP. And is still on win 7 pro (after paying to extend support after it got retired)

qbrozen

Not car related, but the fam got a huge kick out of visiting this store. In Myrtle Beach at the Broadway on the Beach mall. I commented they should park Homer’s car out front.

venture

qbrozen said:

Not car related, but the fam got a huge kick out of visiting this store. In Myrtle Beach at the Broadway on the Beach mall. I commented they should park Homer’s car out front.

LOL. Nice.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

Convertible tops should be manual. I never would have had that problem with the Miata!

My experience is that manual tops tend to be thin to be light and they don't provide as good insulation and don't wear well. The Sebring was automatic and was thick, it provided good insulation even when I was driving it around in 25 below temps a few winters ago (31 below for Driver) and still looked good after 10 years of Chicago's weather.

snakeweasel

venture said:

driver100 said:

Unfortunately, if a person has to put $18,500 on their credit card, then they probably shouldn't have a credit card. They should take out a loan or arrange a line-of credit....to put that much on a credit card is ridiculous, unless it gets paid off immediately.

I am pretty sure I only charged something on my credit card once that I couldn't pay off at the end of the month. This would have happened about 30 years ago, my TV broke, I wanted one fast, I think the TV I bought was about $800. I knew I could pay about $400 a month....so I decided to get the TV and make myself pay it off in 2 months. It made sense to me, I'd have the TV, and though I'd pay a premium amount of interest, at least I had a TV for those two months...it made sense at the time.

It makes sense now too.

BTW - Here's a picture of our black granite sink for your enjoyment.

Watch what you post here, you almost got me in trouble. I came across that post just as my wife walked by me, if she would have seen that she would have wanted one too.

snakeweasel

venture said:

In case you haven't seen the Mercedes VISION AVTR:

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/mercedes-benz-concept-cars/vision-avtr/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChqM3zqTREQ

What is this? Out takes from the movie "Tron"?

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

My friend told me this guy he knows has a Lincoln Navigator that is under warranty.
The windshield washers didn't work properly....the multi-speed stopped working.
He took the car in to be repaired.
When he came back to get it they had it up on a hoist, and they took the transmission out to fix the wipers.
He asked them what the transmission had to do with wipers.
They told him the wipers operate based on the amount of water that lands on them, and they also rely on input of the engine speed, which comes from the transmission.
The owner said, he was glad it was fixed under warranty, but he doesn't want to keep the car for a long time, repairs like that could get costly.

I'm not sure if this is true, but it came from a reliable source - my friend, not sure about the Navi owner.

Something doesn't sound right. What has engine speed have to do with the wipers? I would think vehicle speed would be more important when dealing with wiper speed. Also why do they have to drop the tranny if they need the engine speed? Hasn't Ford hear of a tachometer?

snakeweasel

venture said:

Has anyone updated to Windows 11 yet? The icon is sitting on my taskbar taunting me.

That's a shame, that icon has no business taunting you. That's our job.

imidazol97

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

My friend told me this guy he knows has a Lincoln Navigator that is under warranty.
The windshield washers didn't work properly....the multi-speed stopped working.
He took the car in to be repaired.
When he came back to get it they had it up on a hoist, and they took the transmission out to fix the wipers.
He asked them what the transmission had to do with wipers.
They told him the wipers operate based on the amount of water that lands on them, and they also rely on input of the engine speed, which comes from the transmission.
The owner said, he was glad it was fixed under warranty, but he doesn't want to keep the car for a long time, repairs like that could get costly.

I'm not sure if this is true, but it came from a reliable source - my friend, not sure about the Navi owner.

Something doesn't sound right. What has engine speed have to do with the wipers? I would think vehicle speed would be more important when dealing with wiper speed. Also why do they have to drop the tranny if they need the engine speed? Hasn't Ford hear of a tachometer?

My cars with delayed wipers and my leSabre with rain-sensing wipers used car speed as a factor in how often to cycle the wipers: faster speed means more rain on windshield in a period of time.
That input for car speed comes from this thing that controls the speedometer in the cluster and the digital speedometer. It would be easy to pick up the car speed from that input without having to take it from the transmission on another feed.

snakeweasel

Well we are having gutters replaced on our home and the first stage is completed. The old Omni gutters are gone and the new fascia is up. Now all we need is the next crew to come in and install the gutters. So as of now we have a gutterless house. This has been an adventure as this process tends to be somewhat expensive and the first contractor we "hired" never showed up (no we didn't put a down payment on it). The current contractor we did pay half upfront only because we (and other family members) have had previous experience with him and he gave us a discount seeing that we are repeat customers.

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

My friend told me this guy he knows has a Lincoln Navigator that is under warranty.
The windshield washers didn't work properly....the multi-speed stopped working.
He took the car in to be repaired.
When he came back to get it they had it up on a hoist, and they took the transmission out to fix the wipers.
He asked them what the transmission had to do with wipers.
They told him the wipers operate based on the amount of water that lands on them, and they also rely on input of the engine speed, which comes from the transmission.
The owner said, he was glad it was fixed under warranty, but he doesn't want to keep the car for a long time, repairs like that could get costly.

I'm not sure if this is true, but it came from a reliable source - my friend, not sure about the Navi owner.

Something doesn't sound right. What has engine speed have to do with the wipers? I would think vehicle speed would be more important when dealing with wiper speed. Also why do they have to drop the tranny if they need the engine speed? Hasn't Ford hear of a tachometer?

My cars with delayed wipers and my leSabre with rain-sensing wipers used car speed as a factor in how often to cycle the wipers: faster speed means more rain on windshield in a period of time.
That input for car speed comes from this thing that controls the speedometer in the cluster and the digital speedometer. It would be easy to pick up the car speed from that input without having to take it from the transmission on another feed.

Don't rain sensing wipers use a sensor to measure how much rain is on the windshield by reflected light?

imidazol97

The GM model bounces light (infrared?) off the outer layer of glass. When droplets of rain or mist are on the outside of the glass, the difference in the index of refraction is affected and not as much light bounces back.

oldfarmer50

We were up at Burlington VT airport today and got a close up view of about a dozen of these bad boys taking off

https://youtu.be/zpAf4QNEU6M

Our cleaning facility is right up next to the runway fence and the noise was deafening. That stock video doesn’t give anywhere near the sound level. Great show but we were wondering if we were at war.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

to me, it depends on if the gadget is worth repairing if it is something that can be bypassed. So if the wipers can work on a fixed instead of variable setting, just use that.

I recall when I had the Odyssey some people if the power doors acted up would just remove the motor and cables. The door worked perfectly fine manually, and it just wasn't worth paying a lot of money to fix that.

Car Wizard just had a video on a 2012 Bentley Continental. one problem (unfixable) was some motor that IIRC soft closed the trunk lid. So I think you had to close it manually (maybe just give it the final push). Turns out that replacement motors were unubtanium, and the old one unfixable. So, might as well just disconnect it and just close the trunk lid by hand, like nature intended!

actually I am still not a fan of power tailgates, but they at least make some sense. but a power trunk lid on a sedan just seems ridiculous. same with power door closers. Just unnecessary complexity and something that is going to be expensive down the line.

My kid’s 93’ DeVille had that same soft close trunk thingy. It worked flawlessly right up to when the frame rotted out.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

Windows 1 - don't know
Windows 2 - too early, not worth time
Windows 3 - OK, especially 3.11
Windows 2000/Me - generally not very good up to terrible
Windows XP - OK (except requires periodic reinstallations, as it gets bloated over time)
Windows Vista - slow, obese, awful (they actually fixed it after a year or two, but the brand damage was too great to recover)
Windows 7 - OK, actually I'd say even good
Windows 8 - worst ever, failure of epic proportions
Windows 10 - OK, predictable, stable, initially awkward, but improved enough
Windows 11 - anybody venture a guess?

I stopped using desktop computers years ago when my wife bought an IPad and I’ve never looked back.

tjc78

@snakeweasel said:
Don't rain sensing wipers use a sensor to measure how much rain is on the windshield by reflected light?

Yes, but also have inputs for speed as an added data point to select speed.

imidazol97

The leSabre system used infrared light reflected from the outer surface of the windshield back to a sensor. When droplets of water are on the windshield, the light goes on through due to the change in the difference in index of refraction of glass to water compared to glass to air. That reduction in reflected light triggers the wiper cycle. There were 5 settings on the leSabre IIRC. They were essentially wiper delay settings. I believe those changed with speed to compensate for water hitting the windshield more at speed. Same as the volume setting on the radio changed with speed to compensate for road/wind noise.

I may be wrong on the change with speed for the rain-sensing wiper. My wife tells me I'm wrong daily. It's been a long time since I had the leSabre. I studied the factory service manual on how that sensor system worked and studied the electrical diagram.

driver100

tjc78 said:

@snakeweasel said:

Don't rain sensing wipers use a sensor to measure how much rain is on the windshield by reflected light?

Yes, but also have inputs for speed as an added data point to select speed.

I don't see why the guy would make up this story. He said he took his Navigator in because the intermittent wipers weren't working properly. When he came back to pick up his car he asked why they were taking the transmission out so they could get to the speed sensor in the transmission. The wipers operate according to the amount of rain, and the speed of the car, wipers go faster as the car goes faster. There are sensors attached to the transmission apparently.

I don't know anything about this, but why would one friend make up a story and tell another friend the story, when there is no reason to make up the story? I don't know, it may be true may not be.....it would be nice to actually know the answer.

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

explorerx4

@oldfamer50,
Let us know if you see the Burlington MIG.

driver100

stickguy said:

actually I am still not a fan of power tailgates, but they at least make some sense. but a power trunk lid on a sedan just seems ridiculous. same with power door closers. Just unnecessary complexity and something that is going to be expensive down the line.

Stick, I like the auto-closing trunk. We buy our groceries online these days, drive to the store, the kid comes out and loads the groceries into the trunk. I can open the trunk for him without leaving the car. I tell him to press the red button when he is done...he likes that. It works really well, wouldn't want to live without it!

fintail

502 cabrio, wow.

roadburner said:

fintail

Compliance!

qbrozen said:

@venture said:

Yeah. I get that. I don't know what a Tron is though.

I wasn't advocating for or against the thing. Just wanted to get the info out there.

It just has some "different" features like the wheels blink when the turn signals are used. The guidance system reminds me a lot of the one in Flight of the Navigator.

Wait… you know Flight of the Navigator but not Tron? You are joking, right?