Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fintail

I've been doing a kitchen refresh and saw that quartz sinks aren't insanely expensive - almost went for it. I have a feeling the hard water here might not get along with it, however. House has a white sink with laminate counters, not in love with either, so I made those my vanity/frivolity project.

snakeweasel said:

venture said:

driver100 said:

Unfortunately, if a person has to put $18,500 on their credit card, then they probably shouldn't have a credit card. They should take out a loan or arrange a line-of credit....to put that much on a credit card is ridiculous, unless it gets paid off immediately.

I am pretty sure I only charged something on my credit card once that I couldn't pay off at the end of the month. This would have happened about 30 years ago, my TV broke, I wanted one fast, I think the TV I bought was about $800. I knew I could pay about $400 a month....so I decided to get the TV and make myself pay it off in 2 months. It made sense to me, I'd have the TV, and though I'd pay a premium amount of interest, at least I had a TV for those two months...it made sense at the time.

It makes sense now too.

BTW - Here's a picture of our black granite sink for your enjoyment.

Watch what you post here, you almost got me in trouble. I came across that post just as my wife walked by me, if she would have seen that she would have wanted one too.

ab348

driver100 said:

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well, it is a Ford, so it could be based on speed, whether the headlights are on, engine rpms, and what the driver had for lunch…. :@

Michaell

fintail said:

I've been doing a kitchen refresh and saw that quartz sinks aren't insanely expensive - almost went for it. I have a feeling the hard water here might not get along with it, however. House has a white sink with laminate counters, not in love with either, so I made those my vanity/frivolity project.

snakeweasel said:

venture said:

driver100 said:

Unfortunately, if a person has to put $18,500 on their credit card, then they probably shouldn't have a credit card. They should take out a loan or arrange a line-of credit....to put that much on a credit card is ridiculous, unless it gets paid off immediately.

I am pretty sure I only charged something on my credit card once that I couldn't pay off at the end of the month. This would have happened about 30 years ago, my TV broke, I wanted one fast, I think the TV I bought was about $800. I knew I could pay about $400 a month....so I decided to get the TV and make myself pay it off in 2 months. It made sense to me, I'd have the TV, and though I'd pay a premium amount of interest, at least I had a TV for those two months...it made sense at the time.

It makes sense now too.

BTW - Here's a picture of our black granite sink for your enjoyment.

Watch what you post here, you almost got me in trouble. I came across that post just as my wife walked by me, if she would have seen that she would have wanted one too.

What are you going with?

venture

snakeweasel said:

Well we are having gutters replaced on our home and the first stage is completed. The old Omni gutters are gone and the new fascia is up. Now all we need is the next crew to come in and install the gutters. So as of now we have a gutterless house. This has been an adventure as this process tends to be somewhat expensive and the first contractor we "hired" never showed up (no we didn't put a down payment on it). The current contractor we did pay half upfront only because we (and other family members) have had previous experience with him and he gave us a discount seeing that we are repeat customers.

I remember you mentioning Omni gutters before, but never heard of them. I Googled them and see why you wanted to replace them. Probably the worst thing about them is you can't slope the gutters to drain properly. Of course not being able to keep the rafters in line is probably a close second.

The new K style will look better too, I suspect.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfamer50,
Let us know if you see the Burlington MIG.

No MIGs but they have a few P80s across the airfield parked near the F22s. I asked one of the counter agents what they were doing there and he had no idea that they were 70+ years old.

ab348

Warning: @jmonroe -length post below...

Sour experience at the end of my re-roof project this week.

After the guys stripped off the old roof, I got a knock on the door around lunch on Monday from one of them asking me to come outside and look at something. The fellow still up on the roof was standing next to the little (about 16" or 18" square and maybe 2 feet tall) decommissioned chimney poking out near the roof peak and told me it was in bad shape. I didn't know it was as bad as it was but as he pointed out numerous cracks, bad lead flashing and loose bricks I wasn't too surprised. I had it repointed a few years ago but it hadn't fared well since. Since it wasn't in use and never would be in its current location we all agreed it would make sense to just take it down to below roof level, patch the resulting hole with new wood and shingle the entire thing.

At that point the manager/estimator arrived and we had a short chat. He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it which of course I realized, and we all agreed to go ahead with removing the visible part of it. Their estimate form had language in it that indicated that replacement of wood on the roof deck carried with it a charge of $3.50/sq ft so I wasn't worried about that, and figured it would involve just some small amount of additional labor, materials and markup. During the 5 minutes the estimator and I were talking, the guy on the roof had already removed all signs of the chimney with his bare hands since it was in such poor condition and tossed the bricks and debris to his partner on the ground to place in the dumpster, and the manager then left to go buy some plywood.

They did the job but imagine my surprise when the invoice arrived on Wednesday with an "extra" charge of $565.00! I was stunned and immediately questioned it since in my head I figured at worst it should be half that much. One of the owners whom I had never dealt with before came back with a BS response about how they have a minimum "extra" charge of $450 (not stated anywhere on the estimate T&C or on their website) and that they incurred extra costs for disposing of the old brick, etc, but that he would reduce the charge to their supposed minimum of $450. After stewing for a while about my options I finally decided to just pay it and be done with this outfit. If there was anything I could do to get my revenge I would do it another way via badmouthing them in a review or whatever.

This obviously leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because all reviews and other sources I could find about this outfit said they were very good. The work of the crew was excellent, but they are run by a slimy bunch. Up until this I was considering them for some window and siding work I want to have done but they just blew that opportunity out of the water. Hope they choke on their ill-gotten $150-$200 profit.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

@snakeweasel said:

Don't rain sensing wipers use a sensor to measure how much rain is on the windshield by reflected light?

Yes, but also have inputs for speed as an added data point to select speed.

I don't see why the guy would make up this story. He said he took his Navigator in because the intermittent wipers weren't working properly. When he came back to pick up his car he asked why they were taking the transmission out so they could get to the speed sensor in the transmission. The wipers operate according to the amount of rain, and the speed of the car, wipers go faster as the car goes faster. There are sensors attached to the transmission apparently.

I don't know anything about this, but why would one friend make up a story and tell another friend the story, when there is no reason to make up the story? I don't know, it may be true may not be.....it would be nice to actually know the answer.

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well as for myself the questions that come to mind is first of all this is not coming to you from first hand experience (a friend of someone you know), secondly why is he coming back to pick up his car before he is told it's ready? Finally why not use the speedometer that the car already has to determine the speed? I don't think you have to drop the transmission to get to that sensor. Lift the vehicle to get underneath yes but not drop the tranny. Maybe he just saw it on the lift and asked about it and was told that the had to have access to the gearbox from under the car.

snakeweasel

venture said:

snakeweasel said:

Well we are having gutters replaced on our home and the first stage is completed. The old Omni gutters are gone and the new fascia is up. Now all we need is the next crew to come in and install the gutters. So as of now we have a gutterless house. This has been an adventure as this process tends to be somewhat expensive and the first contractor we "hired" never showed up (no we didn't put a down payment on it). The current contractor we did pay half upfront only because we (and other family members) have had previous experience with him and he gave us a discount seeing that we are repeat customers.

I remember you mentioning Omni gutters before, but never heard of them. I Googled them and see why you wanted to replace them. Probably the worst thing about them is you can't slope the gutters to drain properly. Of course not being able to keep the rafters in line is probably a close second.

The new K style will look better too, I suspect.

Well the old gutters were working fine just getting old and part of them were damaged by a storm so we decided to get them completely replaced and have a guard installed over them to prevent leaves and other debris clogging them.

tjc78

ab348 said:

Warning: @jmonroe -length post below...

Sour experience at the end of my re-roof project this week.

After the guys stripped off the old roof, I got a knock on the door around lunch on Monday from one of them asking me to come outside and look at something. The fellow still up on the roof was standing next to the little (about 16" or 18" square and maybe 2 feet tall) decommissioned chimney poking out near the roof peak and told me it was in bad shape. I didn't know it was as bad as it was but as he pointed out numerous cracks, bad lead flashing and loose bricks I wasn't too surprised. I had it repointed a few years ago but it hadn't fared well since. Since it wasn't in use and never would be in its current location we all agreed it would make sense to just take it down to below roof level, patch the resulting hole with new wood and shingle the entire thing.

At that point the manager/estimator arrived and we had a short chat. He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it which of course I realized, and we all agreed to go ahead with removing the visible part of it. Their estimate form had language in it that indicated that replacement of wood on the roof deck carried with it a charge of $3.50/sq ft so I wasn't worried about that, and figured it would involve just some small amount of additional labor, materials and markup. During the 5 minutes the estimator and I were talking, the guy on the roof had already removed all signs of the chimney with his bare hands since it was in such poor condition and tossed the bricks and debris to his partner on the ground to place in the dumpster, and the manager then left to go buy some plywood.

They did the job but imagine my surprise when the invoice arrived on Wednesday with an "extra" charge of $565.00! I was stunned and immediately questioned it since in my head I figured at worst it should be half that much. One of the owners whom I had never dealt with before came back with a BS response about how they have a minimum "extra" charge of $450 (not stated anywhere on the estimate T&C or on their website) and that they incurred extra costs for disposing of the old brick, etc, but that he would reduce the charge to their supposed minimum of $450. After stewing for a while about my options I finally decided to just pay it and be done with this outfit. If there was anything I could do to get my revenge I would do it another way via badmouthing them in a review or whatever.

This obviously leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because all reviews and other sources I could find about this outfit said they were very good. The work of the crew was excellent, but they are run by a slimy bunch. Up until this I was considering them for some window and siding work I want to have done but they just blew that opportunity out of the water. Hope they choke on their ill-gotten $150-$200 profit.

All change orders should be in writing before starting work.

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

@oldfamer50,
Let us know if you see the Burlington MIG.

No MIGs but they have a few P80s across the airfield parked near the F22s. I asked one of the counter agents what they were doing there and he had no idea that they were 70+ years old.

Kids.

jmonroe

driver100

tjc78 said:

ab348 said:

Warning: @jmonroe -length post below...

Sour experience at the end of my re-roof project this week.

After the guys stripped off the old roof, I got a knock on the door around lunch on Monday from one of them asking me to come outside and look at something. The fellow still up on the roof was standing next to the little (about 16" or 18" square and maybe 2 feet tall) decommissioned chimney poking out near the roof peak and told me it was in bad shape. I didn't know it was as bad as it was but as he pointed out numerous cracks, bad lead flashing and loose bricks I wasn't too surprised. I had it repointed a few years ago but it hadn't fared well since. Since it wasn't in use and never would be in its current location we all agreed it would make sense to just take it down to below roof level, patch the resulting hole with new wood and shingle the entire thing.

At that point the manager/estimator arrived and we had a short chat. He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it which of course I realized, and we all agreed to go ahead with removing the visible part of it. Their estimate form had language in it that indicated that replacement of wood on the roof deck carried with it a charge of $3.50/sq ft so I wasn't worried about that, and figured it would involve just some small amount of additional labor, materials and markup. During the 5 minutes the estimator and I were talking, the guy on the roof had already removed all signs of the chimney with his bare hands since it was in such poor condition and tossed the bricks and debris to his partner on the ground to place in the dumpster, and the manager then left to go buy some plywood.

They did the job but imagine my surprise when the invoice arrived on Wednesday with an "extra" charge of $565.00! I was stunned and immediately questioned it since in my head I figured at worst it should be half that much. One of the owners whom I had never dealt with before came back with a BS response about how they have a minimum "extra" charge of $450 (not stated anywhere on the estimate T&C or on their website) and that they incurred extra costs for disposing of the old brick, etc, but that he would reduce the charge to their supposed minimum of $450. After stewing for a while about my options I finally decided to just pay it and be done with this outfit. If there was anything I could do to get my revenge I would do it another way via badmouthing them in a review or whatever.

This obviously leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because all reviews and other sources I could find about this outfit said they were very good. The work of the crew was excellent, but they are run by a slimy bunch. Up until this I was considering them for some window and siding work I want to have done but they just blew that opportunity out of the water. Hope they choke on their ill-gotten $150-$200 profit.

All change orders should be in writing before starting work.

Absolutely!

driver100

@ab348
Sorry to hear about this, all of this work is kind of a crapshoot. I will say usually these jobs end up costing more than you expected.
I don't like the $450 minimum fee, that doesn't even make sense.
I don't know if you were working with the owner or an employee. If it wasn't the owner an email or phone call may help. I get the best results when I act calm and rational and make points that make sense (believe it or not I have done this several times and usually make some progress).
Something along the lines that I called your company because of the good reviews. The work done seems good, but it seemed an excessive price to pay for this job which only took --- this long to do, and more important why wasn't I given an estimate. I'd say the job was worth about $300 (?) considering the time involved and the crew were already on the roof working anyway.
I can't give you a good rating on Yelp or someplace else unless we can come to a compromise that seems reasonable (in fact it will be a bad review but don't say that yet).
btw...I will be having other work done and I would like to give you a chance to do some pricing on that project if we can resolve this matter.

jmonroe1

ab348 said:

Warning: @jmonroe -length post below...

Sour experience at the end of my re-roof project this week.

After the guys stripped off the old roof, I got a knock on the door around lunch on Monday from one of them asking me to come outside and look at something. The fellow still up on the roof was standing next to the little (about 16" or 18" square and maybe 2 feet tall) decommissioned chimney poking out near the roof peak and told me it was in bad shape. I didn't know it was as bad as it was but as he pointed out numerous cracks, bad lead flashing and loose bricks I wasn't too surprised. I had it repointed a few years ago but it hadn't fared well since. Since it wasn't in use and never would be in its current location we all agreed it would make sense to just take it down to below roof level, patch the resulting hole with new wood and shingle the entire thing.

At that point the manager/estimator arrived and we had a short chat. He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it which of course I realized, and we all agreed to go ahead with removing the visible part of it. Their estimate form had language in it that indicated that replacement of wood on the roof deck carried with it a charge of $3.50/sq ft so I wasn't worried about that, and figured it would involve just some small amount of additional labor, materials and markup. During the 5 minutes the estimator and I were talking, the guy on the roof had already removed all signs of the chimney with his bare hands since it was in such poor condition and tossed the bricks and debris to his partner on the ground to place in the dumpster, and the manager then left to go buy some plywood.

They did the job but imagine my surprise when the invoice arrived on Wednesday with an "extra" charge of $565.00! I was stunned and immediately questioned it since in my head I figured at worst it should be half that much. One of the owners whom I had never dealt with before came back with a BS response about how they have a minimum "extra" charge of $450 (not stated anywhere on the estimate T&C or on their website) and that they incurred extra costs for disposing of the old brick, etc, but that he would reduce the charge to their supposed minimum of $450. After stewing for a while about my options I finally decided to just pay it and be done with this outfit. If there was anything I could do to get my revenge I would do it another way via badmouthing them in a review or whatever.

This obviously leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because all reviews and other sources I could find about this outfit said they were very good. The work of the crew was excellent, but they are run by a slimy bunch. Up until this I was considering them for some window and siding work I want to have done but they just blew that opportunity out of the water. Hope they choke on their ill-gotten $150-$200 profit.

Hey, let’s knock off this “@jmonroe length post” stuff. :@ That title has been taken over by @Sandman6472. Haven’t you noticed his almost daily multiple full length novels? I never did that even when I was at my fighting weight.

jmonroe

cdnpinhead

They'd be even longer if he used paragraphs.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

@snakeweasel said:

Don't rain sensing wipers use a sensor to measure how much rain is on the windshield by reflected light?

Yes, but also have inputs for speed as an added data point to select speed.

I don't see why the guy would make up this story. He said he took his Navigator in because the intermittent wipers weren't working properly. When he came back to pick up his car he asked why they were taking the transmission out so they could get to the speed sensor in the transmission. The wipers operate according to the amount of rain, and the speed of the car, wipers go faster as the car goes faster. There are sensors attached to the transmission apparently.

I don't know anything about this, but why would one friend make up a story and tell another friend the story, when there is no reason to make up the story? I don't know, it may be true may not be.....it would be nice to actually know the answer.

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well as for myself the questions that come to mind is first of all this is not coming to you from first hand experience (a friend of someone you know), secondly why is he coming back to pick up his car before he is told it's ready? Finally why not use the speedometer that the car already has to determine the speed? I don't think you have to drop the transmission to get to that sensor. Lift the vehicle to get underneath yes but not drop the tranny. Maybe he just saw it on the lift and asked about it and was told that the had to have access to the gearbox from under the car.

The story comes from a friend that I have known for over 35 years and who is completely honest....and if I ended up in jail he would come and bail me out - I am sure.
He was told the story by a friend of his who I don't know....but why would you make up that story? Most people don't make up a negative story about their car.

I did see this on an F 150 site:
Mine is also speed dependent.
At 70 mph on the slowest setting it's like 5-10 seconds.
Sitting still on the slowest setting it's like 25 seconds.

And, I don't believe the motor controls intermittent wiper speed.
Replacing the motor won't change the time cycle, it only does what it's told to do
So the wipers do work according to speed. I watch a lot of Hot Bench and I can't find proof of how they work according to speed....from the speedo, the transmission, or anything. I've spent a lot of time trying to find an answer.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

ab348 said:

Warning: @jmonroe -length post below...

Sour experience at the end of my re-roof project this week.

After the guys stripped off the old roof, I got a knock on the door around lunch on Monday from one of them asking me to come outside and look at something. The fellow still up on the roof was standing next to the little (about 16" or 18" square and maybe 2 feet tall) decommissioned chimney poking out near the roof peak and told me it was in bad shape. I didn't know it was as bad as it was but as he pointed out numerous cracks, bad lead flashing and loose bricks I wasn't too surprised. I had it repointed a few years ago but it hadn't fared well since. Since it wasn't in use and never would be in its current location we all agreed it would make sense to just take it down to below roof level, patch the resulting hole with new wood and shingle the entire thing.

At that point the manager/estimator arrived and we had a short chat. He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it which of course I realized, and we all agreed to go ahead with removing the visible part of it. Their estimate form had language in it that indicated that replacement of wood on the roof deck carried with it a charge of $3.50/sq ft so I wasn't worried about that, and figured it would involve just some small amount of additional labor, materials and markup. During the 5 minutes the estimator and I were talking, the guy on the roof had already removed all signs of the chimney with his bare hands since it was in such poor condition and tossed the bricks and debris to his partner on the ground to place in the dumpster, and the manager then left to go buy some plywood.

They did the job but imagine my surprise when the invoice arrived on Wednesday with an "extra" charge of $565.00! I was stunned and immediately questioned it since in my head I figured at worst it should be half that much. One of the owners whom I had never dealt with before came back with a BS response about how they have a minimum "extra" charge of $450 (not stated anywhere on the estimate T&C or on their website) and that they incurred extra costs for disposing of the old brick, etc, but that he would reduce the charge to their supposed minimum of $450. After stewing for a while about my options I finally decided to just pay it and be done with this outfit. If there was anything I could do to get my revenge I would do it another way via badmouthing them in a review or whatever.

This obviously leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because all reviews and other sources I could find about this outfit said they were very good. The work of the crew was excellent, but they are run by a slimy bunch. Up until this I was considering them for some window and siding work I want to have done but they just blew that opportunity out of the water. Hope they choke on their ill-gotten $150-$200 profit.

Hey, let’s knock off this “@jmonroe length post” stuff. :@ That title has been taken over by @Sandman6472. Haven’t you noticed his almost daily multiple full length novels? I never did that even when I was at my fighting weight.

jmonroe

I don't think you have to worry about that title, you are in the hall of fame for longest post ever recorded on Edmunds. But you are much better since your reincarnation.

jmonroe1

@ab348, did the guys remove all the lose bricks BELOW the roof line. Just removing what was lose above the roof could lead to problems of what remains in your attic since they could have been loosened while the guy “was in there”? I realize that what remains is not exposed to the elements but if any of those bricks fall you could have a head start on a skylight.

jmonroe

ab348

tjc78 said:

All change orders should be in writing before starting work.

Gee, thanks, I would never have known that after working for 34 years. You must have missed this part:

"He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it ..."

Those kinds of situations happen and it becomes a time and materials or cost-plus type of job. In this case there probably was little or no additional time since the patching of the hole probably would have been offset by them not having to install flashing as they had said they would do. The materials was the cost of some plywood and some nails. The only other extra cost I could see was disposing of the extra weight created by the old bricks. I would not have griped if it came back at $300. The whole unstated "minimum charge for extras" thing is what they hung their hat on. Since it wasn't written or stated anywhere it was unenforceable, but as much as I hated to do it, I did not want to go full nuclear on them at this stage for the sake of $150 in case there is a problem after the first big rain. I decided to take the 20+% that got knocked off the original bill and be done with them.

When you go swimming at the beach that everyone said was a great spot, you don't expect to be surrounded by sharks. Similarly, when you engage a contractor after doing your due diligence, getting different quotes, having multiple conversations with their customer contact, and reading all the good reviews, you don't expect slimy, opportunistic behavior. Most contractors I have dealt with were trustworthy and we ended up having multiple-job histories. Not this bunch.

ab348

driver100 said:

@ab348
Sorry to hear about this, all of this work is kind of a crapshoot. I will say usually these jobs end up costing more than you expected.
I don't like the $450 minimum fee, that doesn't even make sense.
I don't know if you were working with the owner or an employee. If it wasn't the owner an email or phone call may help.

As I mentioned, the response I got to my complaint about the price was from one of the owners. When he gave me the BS line about their unstated minimum charge policy and how it cost them an extra $130/ton to dispose of the bricks (I figure there was no way that little chimney had more than 400-500lbs of bricks) I knew it was a brick wall, pardon the pun, and that told me all I needed to know. While I had been thinking of bringing them back for other work because the two workmen were so good, that vanished instantly when the invoice arrived, so I would have to lie, which I don't like to do.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

@ab348
Sorry to hear about this, all of this work is kind of a crapshoot. I will say usually these jobs end up costing more than you expected.
I don't like the $450 minimum fee, that doesn't even make sense.
I don't know if you were working with the owner or an employee. If it wasn't the owner an email or phone call may help.

As I mentioned, the response I got to my complaint about the price was from one of the owners. When he gave me the BS line about their unstated minimum charge policy and how it cost them an extra $130/ton to dispose of the bricks (I figure there was no way that little chimney had more than 400-500lbs of bricks) I knew it was a brick wall, pardon the pun, and that told me all I needed to know. While I had been thinking of bringing them back for other work because the two workmen were so good, that vanished instantly when the invoice arrived, so I would have to lie, which I don't like to do.

I also call BS on that minimal charge @#%. I can understand a minimal charge if someone is coming out to your residence or business to do work. They have to make money and to do that there is a minimum amount they need to make on a call. Plus they are using time they could go to someplace else and make money. But when they are doing a job and are at the site then any additional charges they charge should be based solely on the extra work/costs involved.

snakeweasel

I am working at home at the kitchen table and this guy keeps coming up and watching me.

stickguy

Fat little guy.

Ready for winter.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Warning: @jmonroe -length post below...

Sour experience at the end of my re-roof project this week.

After the guys stripped off the old roof, I got a knock on the door around lunch on Monday from one of them asking me to come outside and look at something. The fellow still up on the roof was standing next to the little (about 16" or 18" square and maybe 2 feet tall) decommissioned chimney poking out near the roof peak and told me it was in bad shape. I didn't know it was as bad as it was but as he pointed out numerous cracks, bad lead flashing and loose bricks I wasn't too surprised. I had it repointed a few years ago but it hadn't fared well since. Since it wasn't in use and never would be in its current location we all agreed it would make sense to just take it down to below roof level, patch the resulting hole with new wood and shingle the entire thing.

At that point the manager/estimator arrived and we had a short chat. He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it which of course I realized, and we all agreed to go ahead with removing the visible part of it. Their estimate form had language in it that indicated that replacement of wood on the roof deck carried with it a charge of $3.50/sq ft so I wasn't worried about that, and figured it would involve just some small amount of additional labor, materials and markup. During the 5 minutes the estimator and I were talking, the guy on the roof had already removed all signs of the chimney with his bare hands since it was in such poor condition and tossed the bricks and debris to his partner on the ground to place in the dumpster, and the manager then left to go buy some plywood.

They did the job but imagine my surprise when the invoice arrived on Wednesday with an "extra" charge of $565.00! I was stunned and immediately questioned it since in my head I figured at worst it should be half that much. One of the owners whom I had never dealt with before came back with a BS response about how they have a minimum "extra" charge of $450 (not stated anywhere on the estimate T&C or on their website) and that they incurred extra costs for disposing of the old brick, etc, but that he would reduce the charge to their supposed minimum of $450. After stewing for a while about my options I finally decided to just pay it and be done with this outfit. If there was anything I could do to get my revenge I would do it another way via badmouthing them in a review or whatever.

This obviously leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because all reviews and other sources I could find about this outfit said they were very good. The work of the crew was excellent, but they are run by a slimy bunch. Up until this I was considering them for some window and siding work I want to have done but they just blew that opportunity out of the water. Hope they choke on their ill-gotten $150-$200 profit.

You should have told them to leave the brick and then built a barbecue grill out of it or at least a mailbox post.

tjc78

@ab348
In those cases you need to set a NTE.

The min charge is BS, I certainly agree with that.

explorerx4

The squirrel liked the old gutters.

dino001

kyfdx said:

When I retired in 2016, my company's PCs were still running on XP

I'm sure it was XP Professional, or whatever it was called. Consumer version of XP was always good at launch, but had a propensity to get really sluggish over time due to bloat installed by applications. It just couldn't cope with all these "check for update" requests done by everything. It took a skill to be able to disable them at startup. I remember after couple of years my computer took several minutes to boot to be useful. Windows 7 was a huge improvement. But still, wow, 2016 running XP was taking some big chances in your corporate network security.

kyfdx

dino001 said:

kyfdx said:

When I retired in 2016, my company's PCs were still running on XP

I'm sure it was XP Professional, or whatever it was called. Consumer version of XP was always good at launch, but had a propensity to get really sluggish over time due to bloat installed by applications. It just couldn't cope with all these "check for update" requests done by everything. It took a skill to be able to disable them at startup. I remember after couple of years my computer took several minutes to boot to be useful. Windows 7 was a huge improvement. But still, wow, 2016 running XP was taking some big chances in your corporate network security.

It was a huge company. Pretty sure they knew what they were doing. 😉

bwia

Toyota bZ4X Electric SUV Details Revealed

Toyota has just taken the wraps off the prototype version of the bZ4X electric SUV, revealing a model that will go on sale stateside next year. The long-awaited RAV4-sized electric sport utility will be Toyota's first truly mass-market battery-electric model, offering a WLTP range of up to 310 miles thanks to a 71.4-kWh (gross) battery pack. It should also be one of the most important launches for the automaker this decade, acting as the launch vehicle for its bZ, or beyond Zero, series or sub-brand of electric models.

Another innovative technical feature will be a steer-by-wire system that will be offered as an option, designed to reduce vibration and reduce effort required for U-turns.
"The steering feeling is improved through independently controlling the steering torque that the driver feels and the steering angle of the tires. Steering characteristics can be changed with drive mode select," the automaker notes.
Speaking of steering, the bZ4X will offer a Tesla-style yoke as an option, for those who are into that sort of thing.

sda

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well, it is a Ford, so it could be based on speed, whether the headlights are on, engine rpms, and what the driver had for lunch…. :@

I guess the Lincoln owner should be glad Lincoln no longer uses vacuum to power the wipers! They did until the late 60s and were not the most reliable.

driver100

sda said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well, it is a Ford, so it could be based on speed, whether the headlights are on, engine rpms, and what the driver had for lunch…. :@

I guess the Lincoln owner should be glad Lincoln no longer uses vacuum to power the wipers! They did until the late 60s and were not the most reliable.

I had cars with those vacuum wipers and that was really aggravating. Go up a hill and the wipers were hardly moving. Those were the good old days. Reminds me of using the gas pedal to open the choke, and that reminds me before that of manual chokes.......at least we have come a ways since then.

driver100

bwia said:

Toyota bZ4X Electric SUV Details Revealed

Toyota has just taken the wraps off the prototype version of the bZ4X electric SUV, revealing a model that will go on sale stateside next year.

But why do they have to make it look so ugly?

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

@ab348
Sorry to hear about this, all of this work is kind of a crapshoot. I will say usually these jobs end up costing more than you expected.
I don't like the $450 minimum fee, that doesn't even make sense.
I don't know if you were working with the owner or an employee. If it wasn't the owner an email or phone call may help.

As I mentioned, the response I got to my complaint about the price was from one of the owners. When he gave me the BS line about their unstated minimum charge policy and how it cost them an extra $130/ton to dispose of the bricks (I figure there was no way that little chimney had more than 400-500lbs of bricks) I knew it was a brick wall, pardon the pun, and that told me all I needed to know. While I had been thinking of bringing them back for other work because the two workmen were so good, that vanished instantly when the invoice arrived, so I would have to lie, which I don't like to do.

I would agree not to use them again but it wouldn't hurt to let him know why you won't be using him. I don't know how his price compared for the roofing job. You may have saved more than the extra cost they charged to remove the chimney. There are very few times when the customer feels he under paid. I usually think things are going to cost about 25% more.

The plumber who put in our bathroom sink, new faucet and toilet are always fair. I thought it would take about 3 hours but they did it in one hour.......how you ask? JMonroe, pay attention here. They put everything together the night before, they had the faucet attached to the sink, and all the toilet hookups were put together.

Now, for the new granite sink they are installing an $800 garbage disposal. I said why can't I get a $100 Badger. He said I could but it can't handle everything, I'll end up buying one of these when the Badger breaks down and I'll pay to take everything apart and put in this one anyway. It makes sense and I trust him, this way it is done. Oh, Badger 1 year warranty, new construction grade one 12 year warranty.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

sda said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well, it is a Ford, so it could be based on speed, whether the headlights are on, engine rpms, and what the driver had for lunch…. :@

I guess the Lincoln owner should be glad Lincoln no longer uses vacuum to power the wipers! They did until the late 60s and were not the most reliable.

I had cars with those vacuum wipers and that was really aggravating. Go up a hill and the wipers were hardly moving. Those were the good old days. Reminds me of using the gas pedal to open the choke, and that reminds me before that of manual chokes.......at least we have come a ways since then.

Chevy used that system well into the 2000s. Some of the wipers on our school buses built on the Express 3500 would almost completely stop on steep hills.

qbrozen

And now we are stranded in myrtle beach. We were headed to the airport in the T&C. Wife was to drop off me and the youngest and then continue driving with the oldest while we flew. The van was having none of it. Got within a few miles of the airport and it started overheating. Coolant was a little low, so I topped off with water. That didn’t help. As we attempting to limp along, we just so happened to pass a Chrysler dealer. It is there now with a cracked radiator and hopefully fixed by lunch tomorrow.

stickguy

For $800+ install, I would have scrapped the whole thing and put in a normal drain pipe! The badger (from Insinkarator) lasted us 10+ years (the old one) so not worried about the new one outlasting me in this house.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

And now we are stranded in myrtle beach. We were headed to the airport in the T&C. Wife was to drop off me and the youngest and then continue driving with the oldest while we flew. The van was having none of it. Got within a few miles of the airport and it started overheating. Coolant was a little low, so I topped off with water. That didn’t help. As we attempting to limp along, we just so happened to pass a Chrysler dealer. It is there now with a cracked radiator and hopefully fixed by lunch tomorrow.

If there’s a shiny new Pacifica on the lot…

oldfarmer50

Enterprise would never do this:

https://youtu.be/J1OnGWCsi9E

It’s not like my company is a bunch of saints but they did rescue a couple of 80 yo ladies that another company dumped in the airport parking garage after refusing to honor a reservation.

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

sda said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well, it is a Ford, so it could be based on speed, whether the headlights are on, engine rpms, and what the driver had for lunch…. :@

I guess the Lincoln owner should be glad Lincoln no longer uses vacuum to power the wipers! They did until the late 60s and were not the most reliable.

I had cars with those vacuum wipers and that was really aggravating. Go up a hill and the wipers were hardly moving. Those were the good old days. Reminds me of using the gas pedal to open the choke, and that reminds me before that of manual chokes.......at least we have come a ways since then.

Chevy used that system well into the 2000s. Some of the wipers on our school buses built on the Express 3500 would almost completely stop on steep hills.

I’m surprised vacuum wipers were still used so recently. What was the advantage of having them? I can’t imagine they were significantly less expensive.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

sda said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

btw...tjc, you get it....some seem to think it isn't true but don't have an explanation of exactly how intermittent wipers work, in a Navigator.

Well, it is a Ford, so it could be based on speed, whether the headlights are on, engine rpms, and what the driver had for lunch…. :@

I guess the Lincoln owner should be glad Lincoln no longer uses vacuum to power the wipers! They did until the late 60s and were not the most reliable.

I had cars with those vacuum wipers and that was really aggravating. Go up a hill and the wipers were hardly moving. Those were the good old days. Reminds me of using the gas pedal to open the choke, and that reminds me before that of manual chokes.......at least we have come a ways since then.

Chevy used that system well into the 2000s. Some of the wipers on our school buses built on the Express 3500 would almost completely stop on steep hills.

I’m surprised vacuum wipers were still used so recently. What was the advantage of having them? I can’t imagine they were significantly less expensive.

I’ll be darned if I know. Why the school would use such obsolete technology is beyond me. My 2004 Chevy Express has electric wipers.

qbrozen

@Michaell said:
If there’s a shiny new Pacifica on the lot…

Wife doesn’t want it.

ab348

qbrozen said:

Wife doesn’t want it.

Check to see if they have any Sprinters out back.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

Enterprise would never do this:

https://youtu.be/J1OnGWCsi9E

It’s not like my company is a bunch of saints but they did rescue a couple of 80 yo ladies that another company dumped in the airport parking garage after refusing to honor a reservation.

Why do you think they call it Hertz.

https://youtu.be/QX-BBV60HU4?t=80

Michaell

qbrozen said:

@Michaell said:

If there’s a shiny new Pacifica on the lot…

Wife doesn’t want it.

Can’t blame me for trying. The Sprinter will replace the T&C?

sda

qbrozen said:

@Michaell said:

If there’s a shiny new Pacifica on the lot…

Wife doesn’t want it.

Truly no fun having vehicle issues, ever, especially away from home. Ugh. Doesn’t the T&C have one of those lifetime warranties? Good luck.

stickguy

well, look at the bright side. It happened before you got to the airport. Imagine landing at the airport at home and having messages from your wife that the van is broken down on the side of I95, and you need to come take care of it!

that is a big reason I dumped out old volvo and leased a new car from my daughter when she started driving solo from NC to NJ (450 miles each way) when she was in college. The risk of it dying on the shoulder while she was driving through Richmond or DC.

fintail

Quartz counters (kind of an off white with a subtle veiny pattern), stainless Kohler sink, pretty mid-range stuff. Cabinets were done in the 'oughts, white with a panel design and are in excellent condition, still look current. Backsplash is also of that era, assuming it survives the counter removal, it is staying.

Michaell said:

fintail said:

I've been doing a kitchen refresh and saw that quartz sinks aren't insanely expensive - almost went for it. I have a feeling the hard water here might not get along with it, however. House has a white sink with laminate counters, not in love with either, so I made those my vanity/frivolity project.

snakeweasel said:

venture said:

driver100 said:

Unfortunately, if a person has to put $18,500 on their credit card, then they probably shouldn't have a credit card. They should take out a loan or arrange a line-of credit....to put that much on a credit card is ridiculous, unless it gets paid off immediately.

I am pretty sure I only charged something on my credit card once that I couldn't pay off at the end of the month. This would have happened about 30 years ago, my TV broke, I wanted one fast, I think the TV I bought was about $800. I knew I could pay about $400 a month....so I decided to get the TV and make myself pay it off in 2 months. It made sense to me, I'd have the TV, and though I'd pay a premium amount of interest, at least I had a TV for those two months...it made sense at the time.

It makes sense now too.

BTW - Here's a picture of our black granite sink for your enjoyment.

Watch what you post here, you almost got me in trouble. I came across that post just as my wife walked by me, if she would have seen that she would have wanted one too.

What are you going with?

qbrozen

Yes, Sprinter will replace T&C.

Yes, wife is also glad it happened when it did. I’m kind of annoyed she wouldn’t let us get on the plane, honestly. She just didn’t know what to do. Deer in the headlights problem.

I have to give a HUGE shoutout to Myrtle Beach Chrysler, though. They really bent over backwards. Let us hang out in the waiting room with our 2 dogs and bird. The tech working on our car is coming in tomorrow morn on his day off to receive our radiator and install it. And they gave us a Voyager, despite their “no animal” policy, knowing we had animals to transport. We bought gift cards to bring tomorrow.

driver100

stickguy said:

For $800+ install, I would have scrapped the whole thing and put in a normal drain pipe! The badger (from Insinkarator) lasted us 10+ years (the old one) so not worried about the new one outlasting me in this house.

He said the old Badger looked OK, but it is 12 years old now so could go at anytime. There is no installation charge because he has to remove the old sink and set up the new one....so both would have labor cost for installation. If the old Badger breaks down we'd have to have it all torn apart again to set up the new industrial strength Garbage disposal unit. This thing will probably break up steak bones!

driver100

qbrozen said:

Yes, Sprinter will replace T&C.

Yes, wife is also glad it happened when it did. I’m kind of annoyed she wouldn’t let us get on the plane, honestly. She just didn’t know what to do. Deer in the headlights problem.

I have to give a HUGE shoutout to Myrtle Beach Chrysler, though. They really bent over backwards. Let us hang out in the waiting room with our 2 dogs and bird. The tech working on our car is coming in tomorrow morn on his day off to receive our radiator and install it. And they gave us a Voyager, despite their “no animal” policy, knowing we had animals to transport. We bought gift cards to bring tomorrow.

Myrtle Beach Chrysler has gone above and beyond, and the likelihood of selling you another vehicle is minimal....unless you see that Sprinter that catches your eye.....or how about a Hellcat.

That could almost make a good commercial for them, the family with 2 dogs and a bird waiting for their T&C to be fixed.

mjfloyd1

@ab348 said:
Warning: @jmonroe -length post below...

Sour experience at the end of my re-roof project this week.

After the guys stripped off the old roof, I got a knock on the door around lunch on Monday from one of them asking me to come outside and look at something. The fellow still up on the roof was standing next to the little (about 16" or 18" square and maybe 2 feet tall) decommissioned chimney poking out near the roof peak and told me it was in bad shape. I didn't know it was as bad as it was but as he pointed out numerous cracks, bad lead flashing and loose bricks I wasn't too surprised. I had it repointed a few years ago but it hadn't fared well since. Since it wasn't in use and never would be in its current location we all agreed it would make sense to just take it down to below roof level, patch the resulting hole with new wood and shingle the entire thing.

At that point the manager/estimator arrived and we had a short chat. He indicated it would be an extra though he wouldn't know exactly how much until they got into it which of course I realized, and we all agreed to go ahead with removing the visible part of it. Their estimate form had language in it that indicated that replacement of wood on the roof deck carried with it a charge of $3.50/sq ft so I wasn't worried about that, and figured it would involve just some small amount of additional labor, materials and markup. During the 5 minutes the estimator and I were talking, the guy on the roof had already removed all signs of the chimney with his bare hands since it was in such poor condition and tossed the bricks and debris to his partner on the ground to place in the dumpster, and the manager then left to go buy some plywood.

They did the job but imagine my surprise when the invoice arrived on Wednesday with an "extra" charge of $565.00! I was stunned and immediately questioned it since in my head I figured at worst it should be half that much. One of the owners whom I had never dealt with before came back with a BS response about how they have a minimum "extra" charge of $450 (not stated anywhere on the estimate T&C or on their website) and that they incurred extra costs for disposing of the old brick, etc, but that he would reduce the charge to their supposed minimum of $450. After stewing for a while about my options I finally decided to just pay it and be done with this outfit. If there was anything I could do to get my revenge I would do it another way via badmouthing them in a review or whatever.

This obviously leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because all reviews and other sources I could find about this outfit said they were very good. The work of the crew was excellent, but they are run by a slimy bunch. Up until this I was considering them for some window and siding work I want to have done but they just blew that opportunity out of the water. Hope they choke on their ill-gotten $150-$200 profit.

Well, it depends on how you look at it. $450 for me not to have to climb on the roof and tear a brick chimney down, patch the hole and dispose of the brick and mortar seems worth it. Falling off the roof would cost more than that in medical bills.

It could have been worse and been USD