Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

nyccarguy

Had the mechanic change the oil (Mobil 1 5w 20 synthetic) in the Pilot along with the filter, coolant, brake fluid, & rotate the tires. $255 well spent (plus $27 for 6 QT of oil @ Costco plus $9 for a WIX Filter)

cdnpinhead

robr2 said:

The tire shop was happy to sell me just the one tire. I'm at 7-8/32" on the current and new is 10/32" so there should not be an issue with the AWD.

Glad to hear there are still reasonable tire shops out there and that you found one. I never once thought there was a valid need for you to replace both tires on the axle, but the Discount Tire shops around here have given me all kinds of grief for this sort of thing.

I found a little old-fashioned tire shop up in Heber, a small town near where I go to escape the Phoenix heat, and have high hopes that I can break my 35-year relationship with Discount and start buying tires from Tire Rack and get them mounted there. I want to put the new tires on the steering axle, I often run my tires beyond the "recommended tread depth limits," and am perfectly willing to patch punctures anywhere on the tread. Plus which, I want the tires inflated to what the door jamb says, not some bogus 3-5 psi higher pressure "recommended by our computer."

And you actually drive an Explorer, which gave these guys their excuse to start all this stuff.

Anyway, was pleased to hear you got what you needed without any drama.

Michaell

Hey folks.

Need some advice and guidance. Am in the process of buying a new home ... offer is accepted on the new house, and we're hoping to get our house on the market this week.

Anyway .. my agent recommended a mortgage broker, who I've been working with. As part of this, he wanted a quote for homeowners insurance. A week or two ago, I got notice that my State Farm agent was retiring and that her business was being transferred to a new agent. So, I call the new agent and learn that not only does he sell insurance, he's also a certified financial planner and a certified mortgage broker in Colorado. So he proceeds to tell me about the mortgage products SF offers.

My question is .. can I have them negotiate against one another, much like two dealers trying to sell me a car? I want to get the best deal (both interest rate and closing costs), but I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

State Farm has provided two scenarios - both assuming 10% down. One is for 3.875% and closing costs of $5800, the other is 4.125% with $185 in closing costs; the payments are about $50/mo different. Both include PMI, which I can drop once the LTV is at 80%.

I don't yet have any solid details from US Bank on their interest rate and closing costs; I suppose that's the next thing I should get, so I can at least try to compare apples and apples.

Any thoughts or advice is most welcome.

(BTW, I had the house inspected yesterday and there aren't any major issues to be addressed; the biggest is that a natural gas pipe is routed too close to the water heater and is in the way should we decide to replace it)

bwia

To do an apples to apples comparison you will need to know the APY (Annual Percentage Yield) which is often higher than the standard APR.

dino001

To calculate benefit of the lower rate, let's find a break even point. In other words, assuming making payments in both loans on same schedule, when is $5800-$185 = $5615 paid off, without consideration of money value in time. Based on your said $50 difference (assuming everything else is equal), it appears to take 9.4 years to recoup $5615 of the money paid at closing vs. 0.25% higher interest. - horribly steep price, if you ask me. I almost can't believe somebody would offer such a dud (or they may simply want you to take the higher interest). Unless there is something, you didn't tell us, it's pretty much a no brainer - take the higher interest rate. To me the discount points are attractive if paid off in something like 3-4 years, no more than 5. This calculus is slightly different if your expected annual interest plus other deductions are so low that you won't get itemized deductions, but the upfront points put you over the threshold for this year (you take interest, local taxes, charity, etc, add the points/origination at closing). However, that one-time discount (presumably 25%, assuming most common tax bracket), is still marginal, considering that the benefit is not on the entire amount, but rather on the amount in excess of standard deduction ($6300 single/$12600 couple). No, I'm convinced you should take the higher interest, or shop for a better deal, if you think that one is not good enough.

When I was taking my first mortgage, I had a very similar type of offer (different interest). The interesting part was that first 0.5 percent discount was quite inexpensive (difference payoff in 3 years), but the next quarter percent was prohibitive.

fezo

Oh, silly things like he really didn't have a full idea on closing the roof. I think when it rained he just parked it in the garage. He knew how to do it ok but it's an easier operation than he made it to be. The fact that he thought the interior truck latch wasn't something you could correct.

Not like I'll be a major user of the trunk but I had my iPad in there yesterday rather than lug it around or close up the top.

dino001

bwia said:

To do an apples to apples comparison you will need to know the APY (Annual Percentage Yield) which is often higher than the standard APR.

Small correction on the vocabulary: APY is a term used for deposit accounts, not in loans. It includes annualized effect of cumulative interest paid for the deposit. In other words, if interest is paid monthly and advertised APY is 1%, actual "interest rate" is slightly less, because there is a "interest-on-interest" effect when interests is paid and added to the account after month 1, 2, 3, etc.

For loans you have "interest rate" (i.e. interest charged on the remaining balance) and "effective APR", which includes annualized effect of fees, points and upfront commissions paid at origination, using assumption of all payments made according to the schedule.

Banks will usually advertise in big print numbers that look best, i.e. they will advertise APY for deposits (as effective yield on the account), but would advertise "rate" on the loans in big print (smaller number) with usually smaller print effective APR (bigger number).

Michaell

dino001 said:

bwia said:

To do an apples to apples comparison you will need to know the APY (Annual Percentage Yield) which is often higher than the standard APR.

Small correction on the vocabulary: APY is a term used for deposit accounts, not in loans. It includes annualized effect of cumulative interest paid for the deposit. In other words, if interest is paid monthly and advertised APY is 1%, actual "interest rate" is slightly less, because there is a "interest-on-interest" effect when interests is paid and added to the account after month 1, 2, 3, etc.

For loans you have "interest rate" (i.e. interest charged on the remaining balance) and "effective APR", which includes annualized effect of fees, points and upfront commissions paid at origination, using assumption of all payments made according to the schedule.

Banks will usually advertise in big print numbers that look best, i.e. they will advertise APY for deposits (as effective yield on the account), but would advertise "rate" on the loans in big print (smaller number) with usually smaller print effective APR (bigger number).

OK, I see both rates on the sheets from SF:

Rate = 3.875%; APR = 4.154%

Rate = 4.125%; APR = 4.370%

The difference in the two payments (which includes principal, interest, taxes, homeowners insurance, mortgage insurance and HOA fees) is $46.57. So, to negate the extra closing costs ($5839.25 vs. $185), it will take me 121 payments. I don't plan on moving out of this house for at least that long - probably closer to 15 years until I decide to retire and perhaps move somewhere warmer.

qbrozen

I usually go for the lower interest, but $5600 now to save $46/mo? Nah, doesn't work, IMHO.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

I usually go for the lower interest, but $5600 now to save $46/mo? Nah, doesn't work, IMHO.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking now ... I need to get similar numbers from US Bank to compare ...

qbrozen

Oh, check out Quicken Loans, too. When I used them to refi, nobody could come close to their numbers.

dino001

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

bwia said:

To do an apples to apples comparison you will need to know the APY (Annual Percentage Yield) which is often higher than the standard APR.

Small correction on the vocabulary: APY is a term used for deposit accounts, not in loans. It includes annualized effect of cumulative interest paid for the deposit. In other words, if interest is paid monthly and advertised APY is 1%, actual "interest rate" is slightly less, because there is a "interest-on-interest" effect when interests is paid and added to the account after month 1, 2, 3, etc.

For loans you have "interest rate" (i.e. interest charged on the remaining balance) and "effective APR", which includes annualized effect of fees, points and upfront commissions paid at origination, using assumption of all payments made according to the schedule.

Banks will usually advertise in big print numbers that look best, i.e. they will advertise APY for deposits (as effective yield on the account), but would advertise "rate" on the loans in big print (smaller number) with usually smaller print effective APR (bigger number).

OK, I see both rates on the sheets from SF:

Rate = 3.875%; APR = 4.154%

Rate = 4.125%; APR = 4.370%

The difference in the two payments (which includes principal, interest, taxes, homeowners insurance, mortgage insurance and HOA fees) is $46.57. So, to negate the extra closing costs ($5839.25 vs. $185), it will take me 121 payments. I don't plan on moving out of this house for at least that long - probably closer to 15 years until I decide to retire and perhaps move somewhere warmer.

The APR rate number would work (i.e. you will benefit from lower rate deal) only if you do nothing, but pay everything according to the schedule and stay in your home for next 10-20 years minimum. That's way too long of a time horizon. If you decide to accelerate the payments, move out, refinance, etc., the upfront fee is at least partially lost - that's why I think the maximum payoff period for the points should be something like 3-5 years, not 10. Take the higher interest, IMHO.

stickguy

Of those options, definitely higher rate, less down.

Also, if at all possible, I would put down the 20% to avoid PMI. What is that rip off product getting you for these days?

dino001

I second that. I have the PMI and it's not so easy to get rid of (I was one of those unfortunate saps who bought in the market frenzy, so my new value is way lower than the original). It takes very long to cancel on automatic basis you need to reach 78% "scheduled" LTV), which is something around 8 years for 30 year mortgage at 10% down, but upon request (80% actual LTV) requires a new appraisal. How much are those now? Of course, I think we can assume the values are not going to drop, so then the appraisal becomes fairly routine event, but it's still a cost, which would offset the benefit of canceling the PMI.

carnaught

I would "shop" for other financing with at least two more sources. For me, Quicken was significantly higher, perhaps because of the significant advertising they do. I also prefer 15 yr. over 30 yr. mortgages which save a ton over the life of the loan.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Of those options, definitely higher rate, less down.

Also, if at all possible, I would put down the 20% to avoid PMI. What is that rip off product getting you for these days?

State Farm is quoting $105/mo at the moment. I'm currently paying over $200 for PMI on my current mortgage.

Michaell

carnaught said:

I would "shop" for other financing with at least two more sources. For me, Quicken was significantly higher, perhaps because of the significant advertising they do. I also prefer 15 yr. over 30 yr. mortgages which save a ton over the life of the loan.

The budget won't stretch for a 15 year mortgage, sadly.

dino001

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Of those options, definitely higher rate, less down.

Also, if at all possible, I would put down the 20% to avoid PMI. What is that rip off product getting you for these days?

State Farm is quoting $105/mo at the moment. I'm currently paying over $200 for PMI on my current mortgage.

Wow, those are big numbers. My PMI is $45/m after 15-yr refinancing. It is deductible, but I'll soon be on standard deduction, so the tax status doesn't matter anymore. It was $55/m at the original loan, non-deductible (different laws governed then). I still hate paying it.

robr2

cdnpinhead said:

robr2 said:

The tire shop was happy to sell me just the one tire. I'm at 7-8/32" on the current and new is 10/32" so there should not be an issue with the AWD.

Glad to hear there are still reasonable tire shops out there and that you found one. I never once thought there was a valid need for you to replace both tires on the axle, but the Discount Tire shops around here have given me all kinds of grief for this sort of thing.

I found a little old-fashioned tire shop up in Heber, a small town near where I go to escape the Phoenix heat, and have high hopes that I can break my 35-year relationship with Discount and start buying tires from Tire Rack and get them mounted there. I want to put the new tires on the steering axle, I often run my tires beyond the "recommended tread depth limits," and am perfectly willing to patch punctures anywhere on the tread. Plus which, I want the tires inflated to what the door jamb says, not some bogus 3-5 psi higher pressure "recommended by our computer."

And you actually drive an Explorer, which gave these guys their excuse to start all this stuff.

Anyway, was pleased to hear you got what you needed without any drama.

The place I went to is called Town Fair Tire which is a local chain. I've used them in the past and they matched Tire Rack pricing. They will repair any tire via dismount and patch for only $4. Of course, they limit the repair to the center of the tread. They've also heated and hammered my steel winter rims on the Passat back into shape. They will not install tires bought anywhere else though. It's just their policy not to fraternize with the enemy.

In this case, the counter guy offered another option - a tire their wholesale division took back from a garage. It was about $60 less but was 6 years old. I declined due to the age.

I will say that he was totally aghast when I asked if they would shave the tire down to match the other depths. He said nobody does that anymore and that only race shops or places in Europe could shave the tire. Of course that is incorrect but sometimes it's better to nod and smile. Since the difference is only 2-3/32" there shouldn't be a issue.

Now to have the front end checked out at the dealer on Friday and then reach out to the other driver.

fezo

PMI - the gift that keeps on taking. Fortunately we bought was before the bubble and were able to get out of it.

Actually as it became clear how crazy the bubble was getting I told my wife we should sell the house, go rent for a bit until the bubble burst and then go buy again. I'd have made out like a bandit but didn't actually do it.

robr2

Mortgages - brokers are salespeople for a lenders. They have little ability to negotiate under the new laws.

Your best bet is to check out multiple mortgage brokers and banks to see what each is offering. Remember that you will have no control over the lender with a mortgage broker. Many local banks offer mortgages and keep them in their portfolio. You may like dealing with that type of lender.

nyccarguy

@Michaell - I agree with @robr2.  Shop multiple mortgage brokers.  Take all their numbers and put them on a spreadsheet that you understand.  Once you put the numbers on paper, then you'll realize the best deal.  Numbers don't lie.  I refinanced back in March.  I took a slightly higher interest rate with a lower monthly payment rather than the lower interest rate with PMI.

good luck with the sale & the purchase!

28firefighter

I'll second/third what everyone else has said which is to shop multiple brokers. Our realtor referred us to a broker who initially quoted us a 4.7% interest rate with $3000 in closing closing costs associated with it. After shopping a bit and coming back with several quotes, the rate magically dropped to 4.3% with a $1700 credit at closing when I showed it to them.

graphicguy

Michaell....personal rule of thumb, when it involves MY MONEY (and lots of it), I have no issues whatsoever with pitting one source against another to gain my business.

I had a similar experience with Quicken and Q did. Tell your insurance agent what you're doing. If he's a good mortgage broker, he'll work the banks to get you financed at a good rate.

28firefighter....it's amazing what happens to rates once a little competition is introduced.

Michaell

Thanks, everyone ... guess I've got some homework to do. I'll reach out to my current mortgage holder as well and get them to provide a quote for me to compare against.

At this point, I'm not working with a broker .. the contact I have is at US Bank, so he's pushing their products specifically, as is my insurance agent for State Farm (I knew they provided banking services but not mortgages).

I'll create a s/s to line up all the numbers to compare what I get.

Keep you all posted.

dino001

You need to be quick. I don't remember if it's 15 or 30 days after those multiple mortgage inquiries start piling up on the credit score. At first it's all considered a single inquiry, but then it lapses. I'm sure they could do an adjustment for that, but then you have to argue.

driver100

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Of those options, definitely higher rate, less down.

Also, if at all possible, I would put down the 20% to avoid PMI. What is that rip off product getting you for these days?

State Farm is quoting $105/mo at the moment. I'm currently paying over $200 for PMI on my current mortgage.

I am not of much help in these matters Michael, but good luck, sounds like you have good advice from Dino, Rob and the others though.... you are in good hands (oh, that's Allstate) with those guys.

Anyway $5600 down seems to me that it could earn $560 or so a year in the stock market (more cumulative)...may offset some of the supposed savings.

Also if you can't swing a 15 year mortgage I have read about people making a payment every 4 weeks instead of monthly.......I think it saves about 10 years of payments (if allowed in the USA).

Anyway, I am way over my head in these matters - but I throw stuff out there because you never know, it could be of value to someone .

driver100

fezo said:

PMI - the gift that keeps on taking. Fortunately we bought was before the bubble and were able to get out of it.

Actually as it became clear how crazy the bubble was getting I told my wife we should sell the house, go rent for a bit until the bubble burst and then go buy again. I'd have made out like a bandit but didn't actually do it.

Fezo, that would have been a great play and it could have worked out well for you. A stock broker told me a house is your home to live in, don't use it for speculation. In Canada, prices only dropped for a small time when the bust hit, but prices continued to soar after that. An average home in Vancouver or Toronto is now over $1 million. You wouldn't want to get locked out of the housing market if you guessed wrong.

On the other hand, some people use money from their home to start a business....but, that isn't really speculating....it is just using money wisely if you have a solid plan.

robr2

I you are just inquiring on rates, the credit score won't be affected. It's only if they pull your credit that it may be affected. Also the inquiries are group together if all occur within 30 days - rate shopping is recognized by the rating bureaus.

As an aside, I have US Bank. That's who my mortgage was sold to a week after I closed. I've only dealt with their customer service over the phone over the phone once (see below). Online, they respond quickly. I have had this mortgage for 3 years and they still won't waive the tax escrow without a fee which my previous mortgage company (Wells Fargo) did without an issue. Also, I accidentally paid a extra $10,000 into my escrow account by using the arrow instead of the tab key while making a paymnt. They would not refund the amount until they did their annual escrow balancing. I had to bounce up a few layers to get them to refund it early.

Michaell

dino001 said:

You need to be quick. I don't remember if it's 15 or 30 days after those multiple mortgage inquiries start piling up on the credit score. At first it's all considered a single inquiry, but then it lapses. I'm sure they could do an adjustment for that, but then you have to argue.

Talked with a broker that represents the company that holds my current mortgage ... his rates and deals weren't quite as good as State Farms.

andres3

cdnpinhead said:

robr2 said:

I have the original Michelins on the Explorer (31K miles and 7-8/32 depth) and will replace it with the same tire.

The tire stores around here generally tend to browbeat everyone into the notion that all four tires need to be identical and that if you replace one, then another one, or preferably 3, need to be acquired. Then they won't repair any tire except in the middle 4-6" of tread. It's a joy. Hope you have better luck.

On the other hand, since my car's manual states that it recommends changing all 4 tires at the same time (Quattro AWD), and that under no circumstances should you change less than 2 tires (identical to each front and rear axle), and that disobeying this rule could lead to accidents, injury or death, I'll stick to obeying Audi's specifications, especially when a cheap good for nothing insurance company tries to replace just one tire on my car and get away with it contrary to the vehicle's own operating manual.

stever

@Michaell, when we moved here, I got prequalified with an outfit that took over some brokers when Countrywide went under. Had a good one in Boise but wasn't real happy working long distance with the guy here. But he forced me to get my paperwork organized.

On the day of the home inspection I flagged down the neighbor across the street to find out about his net access and turns out he's a broker. So I used his bank and he saved me a lot of money. Literally thousands just in fees (~$3,000).

So check the local banks too. Even though they sold the paper (just like the first guy would have), I can yell at my neighbor if something goes screwy.

Michaell

stever said:

@Michaell, when we moved here, I got prequalified with an outfit that took over some brokers when Countrywide went under. Had a good one in Boise but wasn't real happy working long distance with the guy here. But he forced me to get my paperwork organized.

On the day of the home inspection I flagged down the neighbor across the street to find out about his net access and turns out he's a broker. So I used his bank and he saved me a lot of money. Literally thousands just in fees (~$3,000).

So check the local banks too. Even though they sold the paper (just like the first guy would have), I can yell at my neighbor if something goes screwy.

You know, it probably wouldn't hurt to contact the bank where I keep my money .. I'm sure they'd love the opportunity to make some of it back by loaning me a boatload of it.

bwia

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

bwia said:

To do an apples to apples comparison you will need to know the APY (Annual Percentage Yield) which is often higher than the standard APR.

Small correction on the vocabulary: APY is a term used for deposit accounts, not in loans. It includes annualized effect of cumulative interest paid for the deposit. In other words, if interest is paid monthly and advertised APY is 1%, actual "interest rate" is slightly less, because there is a "interest-on-interest" effect when interests is paid and added to the account after month 1, 2, 3, etc.

For loans you have "interest rate" (i.e. interest charged on the remaining balance) and "effective APR", which includes annualized effect of fees, points and upfront commissions paid at origination, using assumption of all payments made according to the schedule.

Banks will usually advertise in big print numbers that look best, i.e. they will advertise APY for deposits (as effective yield on the account), but would advertise "rate" on the loans in big print (smaller number) with usually smaller print effective APR (bigger number).

OK, I see both rates on the sheets from SF:

Rate = 3.875%; APR = 4.154%

Rate = 4.125%; APR = 4.370%

The difference in the two payments (which includes principal, interest, taxes, homeowners insurance, mortgage insurance and HOA fees) is $46.57. So, to negate the extra closing costs ($5839.25 vs. $185), it will take me 121 payments. I don't plan on moving out of this house for at least that long - probably closer to 15 years until I decide to retire and perhaps move somewhere warmer.

Ah Michaell, there you go. If both APR's include all fees and closing costs then a direct comparison can be made.

Based upon the above information the 4.154% APR rate is cheaper, but not by a lot. Over a thirty-year period, the difference in interest expense can be significant. For example, based upon a 30-year, $250,000 mortgage with monthly payments, the interest on the 4.370% APR loan would be $11,389 greater than the 4.154% loan.

However, if you are going to hold the mortgage for less than the full 30 years, then a good case can be made for the higher rate mortgage.

Dino, I know in the strictest sense I butchered the APY/APR semantics. I simply wanted to use a term other the APR to express the "real or effective" interest rate over time. And by the way, APY does apply to all kinds of borrowings/savings that compounds more that once per year.

verdugo

robr2 said:

<
Mike - if you are so annoyed by the damage done by the auto wash, why do you use it other than the fact that's it's free. Remember, you get what you pay for.

That's the thing. He doesn't pay for it. He gets his car hand washed for free at his dealer.

robr2

verdugo said:

robr2 said:

<
Mike - if you are so annoyed by the damage done by the auto wash, why do you use it other than the fact that's it's free. Remember, you get what you pay for.

That's the thing. He doesn't pay for it. He gets his car hand washed for free at his dealer.

I forgot they hand wash his car but he seems to be overly worried every time he brings it there fearing it might wind up in the automatic system.

abacomike

verdugo said:

< Mike - if you are so annoyed by the damage done by the auto wash, why do you use it other than the fact that's it's free. Remember, you get what you pay for.

That's the thing. He doesn't pay for it. He gets his car hand washed for free at his dealer.

Thanks verdugo.  Yes, it is hand washed except when they err and it doesn't get to my detailer.  That's when I have problems.

stever

The house talk is continuing over in Houses Cost Too Much!.

Hopped in our friend's Chevy Cruze at 6 am and got home from Taos before noon. There's an hour or so of curvy two lane up north and then you hit the Interstate at Santa Fe. I-25 has pretty nice scenery for a freeway and the traffic isn't bad - had the Cruze cruise set for 82 most of the way.

The subcompact is darned comfy and blared out my mp3s nicely. The engine is a bit lethargic but managed fine if you put your foot in it and got the revs up over 5,000. Made 4 pit stops along the way and if I had the range, my body would have been able to drive all the way without stopping (the range-o-meter said I could do 600 miles on a tank but that dropped as my speed didn't). Felt very sporty after the minivan, but what wouldn't?

imidazol97

stever said:

Hopped in our friend's Chevy Cruze at 6 am and got home from Taos before noon. There's an hour or so of curvy two lane up north and then you hit the Interstate at Santa Fe. I-25 has pretty nice scenery for a freeway and the traffic isn't bad - had the Cruze cruise set for 82 most of the way.

The subcompact is darned comfy and blared out my mp3s nicely. The engine is a bit lethargic but managed fine if you put your foot in it and got the revs up over 5,000. Made 4 pit stops along the way and if I had the range, my body would have been able to drive all the way without stopping (the range-o-meter said I could do 600 miles on a tank but that dropped as my speed didn't). Felt very sporty after the minivan, but what wouldn't?

Is this an LS or an LTX?

They have two different engines, 1.8 and a 1.4 turbo; which does it have?

stever

Hm, just went out and glanced and it has an LT badge on the back. All the engine says on the plastic cover is "Ecotec". It's a 2013 if that helps.

On another note, guess I'll cross post this request over in CCBA:

18yr old with inheritance

Michaell

stever said:

Hm, just went out and glanced and it has an LT badge on the back. All the engine says on the plastic cover is "Ecotec". It's a 2013 if that helps.

On another note, guess I'll cross post this request over in CCBA:

18yr old with inheritance

LT has the 1.4 turbo motor. There is an LT1 or an LT2 - the difference is in the wheel size.

Michaell

Our house is officially on the market!

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5345-Suffolk-Cir_Castle-Rock_CO_80104_M11620-59868

stever

Ha, had to get up to go get some more ice tea anyway. The tires are P215 60R16 94S.

Michaell

stever said:

Ha, had to get up to go get some more ice tea anyway. The tires are P215 60R16 94S.

LT1, then.

fezo

As far as the credit inquiries even if you get dinged on inquiries it's a very minor ding.

driver100

Toronto police have charged a man for driving in a high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lane with two mannequins.

The lanes are for cars carrying at least three passengers during the Pan Am/Parapan Games.

On Wednesday, an officer saw a Dodge pick-up truck driving eastbound There appeared to be a person in the front passenger seat and one in the back, in addition to the driver.

As the vehicle drove past the police cruiser, the officer noticed that the front-seat passenger did not appear to be lifelike. The driver was pulled over and two mannequins, both dressed up in clothing and wearing seatbelts, were discovered.

"On a positive note, everyone in the vehicle was wearing a seatbelt," say police.

The man was charged with the appropriate HOV violation.




My question is....Wouldn't it be easier to drive to work a few minutes earlier instead of dressing up those mannequins, and belting them in?

dino001

bwia said:

Dino, I know in the strictest sense I butchered the APY/APR semantics. I simply wanted to use a term other the APR to express the "real or effective" interest rate over time. And by the way, APY does apply to all kinds of borrowings/savings that compounds more that once per year.

No problem, it was just a quick correction. I think generally the term "yield" is associated with accounts that pay YOU, not ones that you pay to somebody else. Bonds and stocks also "yield" (coupon, or dividend), but their yields are expressed in "simple" non-compounding way, even if paid more than once a year, mostly because you are presumed to take a check and not reinvest it into the same thing. So those are just called "yields" without any other qualifiers. I have seen APY basically used when compounding effect (interest on interest) can be effectively calculated, such as CDs, or other bank deposit accounts. APR was term used in case accounts that you OWE to somebody else. There is no compounding effect there, as with payments the balance is going steadily down and the interest is charged on the effective balance for a given period. However, because the lenders also like to charge upfront fees, APR was needed to express those upfront charges as a single easy to understand number that is comparable between loans. Banks, like anybody else, like to disguise the true pricing as much as they are allowed to, so they put the word "rate" and lower number, then they give "APR" in much smaller print, only because they are compelled by law.

Michaell

Three requests to  show the house already.  only been listed for a few hours 

Mr_Shiftright

In case some of you missed Steve's link for the topic discussing houses:

Houses Cost Too Much

stickguy

Michaell said:

Three requests to  show the house already.  only been listed for a few hours 

back in the winter, when I helped (heck, I did most of the work!) get my Dad's house sold, it was like that. Place was very tired (more ratty really), but because of the lot and neighborhood, being on the cheaper side relatively, people descended on the place like we were offering free beer. within had a couple of days, had a ton of showing and a few offers.

so, good luck to you!