Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stever

driver100 said:

How about this unit:

That Etch-A-Route is a hoot and does look better in those E400s than my setup.

fezo

Steve I really think the Etch-A-Route is you. I'd reconsider plans if I were you.

I've pretty much abandoned my navigator. Just plug into google maps and let the Bluetooth voice guide me.

henryn

fezo said:

Steve I really think the Etch-A-Route is you. I'd reconsider plans if I were you.

I've pretty much abandoned my navigator. Just plug into google maps and let the Bluetooth voice guide me.

Google maps is wonderful, I absolutely love it and cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would pay for an inferior system built into their new car.

fezo

Yep.

abacomike

henryn said:

Steve I really think the Etch-A-Route is you. I'd reconsider plans if I were you. I've pretty much abandoned my navigator. Just plug into google maps and let the Bluetooth voice guide me.

Google maps is wonderful, I absolutely love it and cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would pay for an inferior system built into their new car.

My internal GPS system with voice control came standard in my car as did a 14 speaker (2 sub woofers) 630 watt Harman Kardon audio system, etc.  

However, I agree that an internal Navigation system is not a necessity with today's mobile phones with all kinds of GPS apps.  The approximate cost of an Nav system is not that expensive - most cars come with a hard drive data storage system which Nav systems also use.  It is integrated with the audio system.

abacomike

Oil is at $39 a barrel.  Unfortunately, gasoline has not dropped in price as rapidly or anywhere near the percentage as the drop in oil prices.  Just more evidence that oil prices, in general, affect gasoline prices less than the affect speculators have on pricing of gasoline.  Other variables like the shutting down of oil refineries have a great effect on gasoline prices.

henryn

I do believe that if the present oil prices continue, within a few months we will see RUG at approximately $1.60 to $1.80 per gallon. Which should have some interesting effects on the new car market. Sales of electrics and hybrids should plummet, while full size SUVs should go through the roof.

Either way, it will be interesting to watch!

dino001

abacomike said:

Oil is at $39 a barrel.  Unfortunately, gasoline has not dropped in price as rapidly or anywhere near the percentage as the drop in oil prices.

As it shouldn't. Besides the raw commodity costs, there are other costs that become larger percentage of the total, as gas price goes down. In other words, one dollar per barrel at $40 level will not translate to same percentage of gas price drop as 2 dollars at $80. I'm not saying the prices should not go down further (I'm sure they will, eventually, if the oil price stays low), but expecting same percentage drops is like expecting Starbucks to cut their price of coffee in half because the beans are half price. OK, that's a bit extreme, Starbuck's raw coffee price is very small percentage in their latter, but you get the picture. Perhaps a better example would be some wholesale cereal price vs. bulk corn or wheat prices. There is a correlation, but it has its limits.

I always feel like I have to be on "Big Oil" side every time I open this forum, I'm practically in their pocket, even though I don't even own their stocks (except a small position in Ensco, which is down 70 percent from when I bought it). It's just so easy to complain about those guys and their evil cousins, i.e. mythical boogeymen speculators, I try to be a voice of reason here, even though I know I'll get tomatoes thrown at me.

driver100

dino001 said:

abacomike said:

Oil is at $39 a barrel.  Unfortunately, gasoline has not dropped in price as rapidly or anywhere near the percentage as the drop in oil prices.

I always feel like I have to be on "Big Oil" side every time I open this forum, I'm practically in their pocket, even though I don't even own their stocks (except a small position in Ensco, which is down 70 percent from when I bought it). It's just so easy to complain about those guys and their evil cousins, i.e. mythical boogeymen speculators, I try to be a voice of reason here, even though I know I'll get tomatoes thrown at me.

No problem, I like to hear the other side of the argument too. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but closer to a conspiracy.

Here's my question. When there is a shortage, such as when converting to summer grade, or when a refinery closes, oil goes up in price......but, no matter how big the shortage, there is always enough. I understand price based on demand and supply, but, I have never heard of us actually running out or being short (at least not for decades) - so why should the price go higher - does that make much of a difference for demand?

abacomike

Speaking of prices, I bought some ground Folgers House Blend coffee and a dozen eggs this morning as part of my food shopping duties this morning at Walmart.

I paid $8.88 for a container that is 20% less wt. than two months ago but 30 cents more than two months ago.  Amazing how coffee companies get away with a huge cost increase by selling 20% less at the same price!

A dozen eggs cost me $3.69.  I don't ever remember paying that much for a dozen eggs.  I understand that the price increase is due to the killing of millions of chickens due to this virus that is affecting chickens.  That's a 30% increase in price in less than 30 days.

I paid $8.99 for a two-pound hunk of sharp cheddar that I paid $7.69 for a month ago.  

Let's hope gas prices continue to drop in price to make up for the huge increases in the cost of food.

stickguy

RUG gas in Fredericksburg VA today was 2.02.9 at the exxon. Nice!

dino001

There are occasional true shortages, mostly after hurricanes, or other disasters, but I know what you're saying. If gas stations and their overlords see sufficient drop in the sales volumes, they adjust the price. Considering that gas is often a window to their stores for much higher margin items, the gas stations don't want gas to be too expensive. Refineries are where the money is made when the oil prices go down. However, it also needs to be noted that's also where money is lost, when oil prices go up too fast.

I think they'll price their product to try to hit a perfect ratio between production/sell rate (volume) and total revenue. The supply/demand equation works not just at its extremes (shortages), but in the middle, too. Price is too low - you turn away couple of guy, pumps run dry in the afternoon, or a few hours before a refill, at the refinery lines grow, price is too high - some of your guys will idle by the pumps several times a day. Price just right (for you) - you keep everybody busy all day.

dino001

The whole summer maintenance/shutdown "shortages" is something you can blame on the politicians. Every jurisdiction has its own "out-special-save-the-environment-we-know-better-than-the-town-across-the-river" blend, which makes them vulnerable to a single facility, or just small number of suppliers. There are multiple stories about some significant situations in the West, when a single refinery shutdows created true shortages that couldn't be filled by interstate imports due to those idiotic blends regulations.

dino001

stickguy said:

RUG gas in Fredericksburg VA today was 2.02.9 at the exxon. Nice!

Outrage! Why not $1.50?

imidazol97

Whenever the oil companies want to excuse the higher prices, they send out the press releases and the talking heads regurgitate whatever is on the talking points. The political folks are always trying to blame the one party and the media will pass that along readily.

We have the extra oil on the market from the middle east to drive down pricing to put the frackers out of business because they were supplying oil directly to the US and were hurting sales of the old oil sources.

But no matter what goes on in the controlled market, there's always someone standing up for the oil companies.

In no other business will the prices jump in unison from Lower Michigan to Kentucky to the same exact price within less than 24 hours. That would be collusion in any other business.

stever

henryn said:

Google maps is wonderful, I absolutely love it and cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would pay for an inferior system built into their new car.

My Garmin was, dunno, $150? Free lifetime maps. If I got a real smartphone so I could use Google maps, I'd be paying $100 a month, more or less.

@dino001, good comment. My brother inherited some Exxon/Mobil so I figure it's just going from my pocket to his.

Had to buy eggs at a store last week. The neighbor's chickens are on a won't sit-down strike. Can really tell a difference.

Week isn't shaping up good for a visit to the Mazda dealer. Maybe Wednesday....

suydam

Well most of us have the smartphone anyway. Google maps with voice directions is awesome. I can't imagine wanting a nav system.

robr2

Yesterday I decided to buy cage free eggs from a local farm instead of the standard dozen I always get. They were $3.69 - $1.00 more than the regular eggs. The recent bird deaths in the egg mills got me to thinking if I wanted to continue to eat the eggs of the survivors.

fezo

Crude oil makes about 55% of the price of producing and distributing gasoline. Assuming the other 45% to be stable gas prices should be coming down more quickly.

People are crazy and the vehicle manufacturers bet that way. Indeed as gas goes down truck sales will go up and hybrids will drop. Gas was cheap when I bought the Prius so I got a nice deal. Since when my wife is working (soon back; had an unplanned summer off) she's popping around here and there. The Prius makes a lot of sense and she's very happy with it.

I'm always aware of MPG figures when I buy but they're nowhere near my deciding factor. The 5 I got because of space. When I don't need that it might be CX3 time.

dino001

imidazol97 said:

Whenever the oil companies want to excuse the higher prices, they send out the press releases and the talking heads regurgitate whatever is on the talking points. The political folks are always trying to blame the one party and the media will pass that along readily.

I could say exactly the opposite - blame everything on oil companies.

There was very little sympathy to them (as it shouldn't) when they had to consolidate to survive in 90s (Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco, Conoco-Phillips, BP-Amoco, etc. Many were seriously damaged and looked bankruptcy in the eye. A friend of mine delivered in 90s contracted equipment for Shell to an empty parking lot, because the contract was canceled.

Nobody should feel sympathy to these guys - they are not necessarily "nice" people, as they got hardened by reality of booms and busts. In exchange, we should not make them boogeymen for everything that ills our society, either.

I want cheap gas, too. I want cheap bagels and coffee, yet Dunkin Donuts or Einstein would not lower their price, even though they buy coffee beans for less and spend less on gas to deliver their goods to stores. But we understand it's "business". So is gas.

bwia

dino001 said:

There are occasional true shortages, mostly after hurricanes, or other disasters, but I know what you're saying. If gas stations and their overlords see sufficient drop in the sales volumes, they adjust the price. Considering that gas is often a window to their stores for much higher margin items, the gas stations don't want gas to be too expensive. Refineries are where the money is made when the oil prices go down. However, it also needs to be noted that's also where money is lost, when oil prices go up too fast.

I think they'll price their product to try to hit a perfect ratio between production/sell rate (volume) and total revenue. The supply/demand equation works not just at its extremes (shortages), but in the middle, too. Price is too low - you turn away couple of guy, pumps run dry in the afternoon, or a few hours before a refill, at the refinery lines grow, price is too high - some of your guys will idle by the pumps several times a day. Price just right (for you) - you keep everybody busy all day.

Pardon me if I am wrong on this but isn't the quoted price of a barrel of crude oil, the price six months from now. If that is true, then we should not see an immediate or proportional decrease in gasoline prices until that oil is delivered and refined. Not sure of the lingo and semantics between spot and forward pricing but I am sure it has something to do with gasoline prices and commodity prices.

fezo

Why would you buy at the price six months from now when the cheap crude is there right now? I feel no obligation at all to prop up futures speculators. If they bet wrong they lose. That's the nature of the beast.

dino001

bwia said:

dino001 said:

There are occasional true shortages, mostly after hurricanes, or other disasters, but I know what you're saying. If gas stations and their overlords see sufficient drop in the sales volumes, they adjust the price. Considering that gas is often a window to their stores for much higher margin items, the gas stations don't want gas to be too expensive. Refineries are where the money is made when the oil prices go down. However, it also needs to be noted that's also where money is lost, when oil prices go up too fast.

I think they'll price their product to try to hit a perfect ratio between production/sell rate (volume) and total revenue. The supply/demand equation works not just at its extremes (shortages), but in the middle, too. Price is too low - you turn away couple of guy, pumps run dry in the afternoon, or a few hours before a refill, at the refinery lines grow, price is too high - some of your guys will idle by the pumps several times a day. Price just right (for you) - you keep everybody busy all day.

Pardon me if I am wrong on this but isn't the quoted price of a barrel of crude oil, the price six months from now. If that is true, then we should not see an immediate or proportional decrease in gasoline prices until that oil is delivered and refined. Not sure of the lingo and semantics between spot and forward pricing but I am sure it has something to do with gasoline prices and commodity prices.

I think you're right. I also heard that so-called WTI/Bent prices are futures with a particular delivery, you may be correct on six months. This also means the final price depends on the actual volume of those futures exchanged. However, the current price of the futures is a reflection of anticipated supply-demand picture, thus they will create upward/downward pressure on the refined product. Refineries play "arbitrage" game between current supply/demand on their product, current supply/demand on their raw input and contracted prices, as well.

Contracted oil prices is another thing that may prevent gas prices from going down at the same pace - many E&P companies hedge their production, i.e. lock in price of their product. Those hedges is one of the reasons why the smaller "unconventional" (read fracking) domestic companies are not yet in bankruptcy, as they have another year or two guaranteed $70-$90 per barrel for their product up to certain volume. This means whoever buys from them will try to pass that further, or take a hit (they won't do it voluntarily). That's another variable, often forgotten by many.

abacomike

@bwia:

Oil companies use the FIFO approach regarding inventories.  FIRST IN, FIRST OUT.  What that means if they purchased crude at $65 a barrel 4 months ago and today the buy crude at $39 a barrel, the $65 a barrel crude is refined and resold as gasoline and other distillates first which had the higher cost.  When they begin to refine crude that cost $39 a barrel, the prices of the by-product will fall.  

I believe the oil companies can go to the LIFO inventory calculation (LAST IN, FIRST OUT) only once if I remember my Accounting 101 info correctly.  They are not permitted to change inventory costs at will.

But the price of the distillates of crude is also controlled by speculators.

It is not as simple as we would like it to be to determine gasoline costs.

dino001

fezo said:

Why would you buy at the price six months from now when the cheap crude is there right now? I feel no obligation at all to prop up futures speculators. If they bet wrong they lose. That's the nature of the beast.

It's a contract for a delivery, doesn't have to be speculation. When oil prices were raising, you'd want to buy it today, so you can use it and sell the product tomorrow. It cuts both ways. Futures are often speculative, but there is plenty of market participants, who don't speculate on futures, just lock in certain value, so they can predict their expenses and revenues.

dino001

The way to limit influence of speculators is to impose margin limits. People should be allowed to speculate, that's free market. What should not be allowed, is somebody with small amount of their own capital to control much larger amount of product by leverage. At this point commodity and derivative markets still have too much margin trading.

abacomike

As we speak, crude oil is down to $38 a barrel.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

Whenever the oil companies want to excuse the higher prices, they send out the press releases and the talking heads regurgitate whatever is on the talking points. The political folks are always trying to blame the one party and the media will pass that along readily.

We have the extra oil on the market from the middle east to drive down pricing to put the frackers out of business because they were supplying oil directly to the US and were hurting sales of the old oil sources.

But no matter what goes on in the controlled market, there's always someone standing up for the oil companies.

In no other business will the prices jump in unison from Lower Michigan to Kentucky to the same exact price within less than 24 hours. That would be collusion in any other business.

TOUCHE!

That says nothing that addresses the outright lies the oil companies have foisted on the public over the decades. They cry the blues until oil hits $4 gal, then all is right with the world. Their pricing does not adhere to any way, shape or form to modern economic principles. Fact is, they do practice collusion. They get away with it by paying for politicians.

In no way do I feel sorry for them.

I linked a report several days ago outlining fracking costs as making money at $30/bbl.

I dumped any investments I had in oil companies right after the craziness in 2008 when it was clear the only place for oil prices to go was down (I didn't believe for an instant oil would hit $200/bbl).

abacomike

Good grief - the Dow lost almost 600 points on the day.  "Something is afoot" as Sherlock Holmes would say.

I would think this correction is long overdue.  Fed is still planning to raise interest rates (250 basis points is the guess) in 30-60 days.  It really won't hurt much and retirees with IRA's and CD's might see a slight increase on the return when they renew their terms on their investments.

stever

Time to buy!

dino001

graphicguy said:

I linked a report several days ago outlining fracking costs as making money at $30/bbl.

This may be a cash-in price for the most efficient players. Many others, especially smaller players, bought/leased lands at elevated prices, borrowed money at high rates. This would be like saying it costs company X to make a widget by calculating only production cost, but excluding R&D and marketing.

Do you really thing you'd see some of them having stock prices going 90%+ down from their highs if they were making money at $30/barrel? You can't have it both ways - if this is all vast multi-year conspiracy, as you have continuously proclaimed for last five years and they are all making such enormous amounts of money, the sector should not sit at current lows and the stocks should not price in bankruptcies of some of those guys.

Of course they all want gas for $4/gallon. They got it for a while and then it stopped. It wasn't a conspiracy, it was a combination of objective and subjective factors, with multiple players playing to the same direction. Then it all turned. Long speculators got crushed, short speculators are getting rich. Then it will overshoot, bunch of those operations will get closed (some already have been) and the oil will get back up, which for you invariably will be another proof of ever-reaching conspiracy.

Unlike you I simply don't have knowledge what "correct price" for oil and gasoline is. One that can sustain current supply and not crush the demand. I only hear that somewhere between $50 and $70 was the range, where many of those levered guys barely made a buck six months ago (but many still have hedges at $70-90 until some time next year), but those with healthy finances will do OK - not "great", but they'll live alright. The levered guys will go away, or get bought for pennies. The $50 breakeven is moving down, partly due to lower competition for things like sand and water, partly due to maturing technologies. So perhaps it's $45 today, or maybe $40. Saudis make money on much less, $15 or so, but their budget (social programs) has expiration date, if current prices persist. They are overpumping because they want to wipe out the US guys and stick it to Russia for not cooperating in 2009 crash (they was the reason why oil went to $30 then). They can do it for couple of years. May be enough to wipe out shale guys, may not. Then we will see.

abacomike

stever said:

Time to buy!

All the moguls on the business channels (FOX Business, CNBC, etc.) recommend doing nothing.  Don't buy and don't sell.  Take a few days to observe what the markets are doing.  They suggest that this is not the end of the sell-off.

Michaell

abacomike said:

stever said:

Time to buy!

All the moguls on the business channels (FOX Business, CNBC, etc.) recommend doing nothing.  Don't buy and don't sell.  Take a few days to observe what the markets are doing.  They suggest that this is not the end of the sell-off.

Exactly. Everything's on sale at the moment. Even though my 401(k) balance has dropped over 10% in the past week or two.

Fortunately I've got a few years before I need it. Starting to reallocate the assets to lower the risk.

stever

I've been sitting on cash for a while (thinking about that new car, among other things). Sure is tempting....(the DOW, not a depreciating asset).

dino001

Michaell said:

Fortunately I've got a few years before I need it. Starting to reallocate the assets to lower the risk.

NOW???? Time to do it was Thursday last week, not now. You, Sir are at risk of becoming a perfect counterindicator.

Let me put it in this way. Do you believe that in next 10-20 years the market will go up or down from this point? If it is up, then it's time to shift money to more risky assets, not less. The best thing is do nothing, just increase the contribution, if you can.

dino001

stever said:

I've been sitting on cash for a while (thinking about that new car, among other things). Sure is tempting....(the DOW, not a depreciating asset).

Good job, I'm essentially fully invested. Trying to move around a bit into things that had no business falling so hard (if anything they should be up on "slowdown in China"), but running out of ammo...

thebean

abacomike said:

All the moguls on the business channels (FOX Business, CNBC, etc.) recommend doing nothing.  Don't buy and don't sell.  Take a few days to observe what the markets are doing.  They suggest that this is not the end of the sell-off.

I don't think those people know any more than we do.  They are good at sudden expertism no matter what happens and will tell you they could see it coming beforehand.  Herd mentality is not a good investment strategy, IMHO.

driver100

Michaell said:

abacomike said:

stever said:

Time to buy!

All the moguls on the business channels (FOX Business, CNBC, etc.) recommend doing nothing.  Don't buy and don't sell.  Take a few days to observe what the markets are doing.  They suggest that this is not the end of the sell-off.

Exactly. Everything's on sale at the moment. Even though my 401(k) balance has dropped over 10% in the past week or two.

Fortunately I've got a few years before I need it. Starting to reallocate the assets to lower the risk.

And this too shall pass.

The sun will come up tomorrow,

We have been here before.

Look at the glass as half full.

Don't you hate overly optimistic people?

Michaell

dino001 said:

Michaell said:

Fortunately I've got a few years before I need it. Starting to reallocate the assets to lower the risk.

NOW???? Time to do it was Thursday last week, not now. You, Sir are at risk of becoming a perfect counterindicator.

Let me put it in this way. Do you believe that in next 10-20 years the market will go up or down from this point? If it is up, then it's time to shift money to more risky assets, not less. The best thing is do nothing, just increase the contribution, if you can.

Oh, I've been working on it for the last few months. I'm reasonably comfortable with risk in my portfolio.

Just checked out a book from the library that will inform me on how to maximize my (and my wife's) Social Security. Even though that's 15-20 years from now, it never hurts to be prepared.

Gotta remember to make notes.

driver100

I don't think those people know any more than we do.  They are good at sudden expertism no matter what happens and will tell you they could see it coming beforehand.  Herd mentality is not a good investment strategy, IMHO.</</p>

blockquote>

Perfectly stated: When the big crash came in 2008 I wanted to get $100k on my line of credit and invest it. I just couldn't do it, but I would have more than doubled my investment, in 7 years!

dino001

I know one thing - when Peter Schiff shows up and they all start saying "he was right", then it's the bottom. BTW. the same is true in opposite - when those "End of America" ads disappear from Yahoo Finance due to doom and gloom newsletter industry losing the funding, then it's the top.

oldfarmer50

List this among my nuttier ideas but wouldn't this make a good beginning of a Lincoln Ranchero? Wonder what it would take?

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5153462971.html

driver100

driver100 said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:

Fortunately I've got a few years before I need it. Starting to reallocate the assets to lower the risk.

NOW???? Time to do it was Thursday last week, not now. You, Sir are at risk of becoming a perfect counterindicator.

Let me put it in this way. Do you believe that in next 10-20 years the market will go up or down from this point? If it is up, then it's time to shift money to more risky assets, not less. The best thing is do nothing, just increase the contribution, if you can.

Perfectly stated: When the big crash came in 2008 I wanted to get $100k on my line of credit and invest it. I just

I don't think those people know any more than we do.  They are good at sudden expertism no matter what happens and will tell you they could see it coming beforehand.  Herd mentality is not a good investment strategy, IMHO.



I ran into an old school friend who became an investment councillor. I said with all your knowledge you must be doing well in the stock market.

He said we have a saying at work...we manage money for the wealthy, and we take a bus to work.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

List this among my nuttier ideas but wouldn't this makes a good beginning of a Lincoln Ranchero? Wonder what it would take?

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5153462971.html



I like it!



And it has 4 doors...not sure where they sit in the rear.

Now that would be a classy way to take your produce to market.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

I do believe that if the present oil prices continue, within a few months we will see RUG at approximately $1.60 to $1.80 per gallon. Which should have some interesting effects on the new car market. Sales of electrics and hybrids should plummet, while full size SUVs should go through the roof.

Either way, it will be interesting to watch!

Time to sell anything with a V-8 and buy a fleet of hybrids cheap. Store 'em to sell when gas goes back to $4. Although if the stock market keeps crashing you may want to hold onto your cash.

qbrozen

so they would still raise the interest rate with the market crashing? seems counterintuitive to me, but I'm not very much educated in these matters.

imidazol97

dino001 said:

I know one thing - when Peter Schiff shows up and they all start saying "he was right", then it's the bottom. BTW. the same is true in opposite - when those "End of America" ads disappear from Yahoo Finance due to doom and gloom newsletter industry losing the funding, then it's the top.

Agree. When the talking heads stop suggesting that the little guys should bottom pick here to pick up bargains, while the big stock houses are dumping certain stocks because the little guys are helping shore up prices for the big guys to sell into, it's not the time to buy. We do now have folks being trotted out on business channels and being asked about their Dow 5000 and recession coming predictions. Doom and gloom today.

Add into that some other factors: Lots of people are afraid China may not do anything to shore up their market and there may be yet another big down night for China tonight, so those folk folks didn't want to end today in the market and closing was down more than it should have been. Also, margin calls have been going out and people have had to sell stocks including many they didn't want to sell to raise funds, so the market has gone down more than it should have. Looks like a better day tomorrow, followed by a few days of remorse and selling.

When more doom and gloomers are on the channels, start looking for purchases.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

I don't think those people know any more than we do.  They are good at sudden expertism no matter what happens and will tell you they could see it coming beforehand.  Herd mentality is not a good investment strategy, IMHO.</</p>

blockquote>

Perfectly stated: When the big crash came in 2008 I wanted to get $100k on my line of credit and invest it. I just couldn't do it, but I would have more than doubled my investment, in 7 years!



I usually reinvest my dividends but I was going to start using them to pay off the Mustang note. Now if I reinvest I'll be buying at a much lower price. I'm looking for another source of car payment money now. Can't afford not to buy low.

ab348

I have had it with the markets. The last week is just the tip of the iceberg. I have a smallish portfolio that has really done nothing overall for the last year or so. Some things up slightly, but some supposedly high-quality stuff has done nothing but go down for a year. The thing has just oscillated sideways the whole time. Overall I don't think I got even a 5% return overall for the portfolio over the last year. Now of course all bets are off. I would actually be happy with 5% annually if I could get it without all the drama. I am ready to fire my investment lady.

oldfarmer50

Driver100 said:

"And it has 4 doors...not sure where they sit in the rear.

Now that would be a classy way to take your produce to market."


Yeah, just build a plywood box on top to class it up.

I imagine those rear doors are welded shut to maintain rigidity with that rear roof section removed. I assume this is either a factory retrofit or done by a specialty shop that builds for the funeral industry. The ad says it has a stainless steel bed. I wonder if it's removeable and what's underneath.

That's the trouble when you watch Fast & Loud while looking at CL ads.