Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

qbrozen said:

@stickguy said:

well, depending on the number of doors, it was either a foot shorter or longer than a Maverick, and 6" narrower.

Oh, I goofed. I had a 2nd gen.

Still, 6.5’ bed and 7k towing capacity makes it far more of a capable work truck vs a lifestyle vehicle such as the Mav or Santa Cruz. I’m not knocking those, but they ain’t trucks.

He really seemed to be talking about 1980s Nissan Harbodies, stuff like that. None of which could sniff a 7K towing rating with a 4 banger. That was later larger, V8 models that got lousy gas mileage and were not that cheap.

and heck, these days, the standard bed on an F150 is only 5.5'. and you ain't getting one of them for $20k!

you might be selling the Maverick short as a truck, because it is a real one (santa Cruz, that is a lifestyle vehicle mostly). Mav has a payload IIRC of about 1600#s? or 1,200. But it can carry a good amount of weight. And tow rating of 4K. So it can do plenty of real truck things and even the bed, while a little short, can carry quite a bit. Certainly as much as most pickups ever carry.

According to my dealer as of 2023 you could still order a base F-150 single cab with an 8’ bed for $36k. I considered that but decided I didn’t want to spend that kind of money for something I just use for trash hauling.

stickguy

Don’t discount the impact of internet and social media

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

@stickguy said:

well, depending on the number of doors, it was either a foot shorter or longer than a Maverick, and 6" narrower.

Oh, I goofed. I had a 2nd gen.

Still, 6.5’ bed and 7k towing capacity makes it far more of a capable work truck vs a lifestyle vehicle such as the Mav or Santa Cruz. I’m not knocking those, but they ain’t trucks.

————————————————
Them’s fightin words. Shake hands, no hitting below the belt, go to your corner and come out when you hear the bell ring.

IIRC, you’re quite tall so with that 6’ 5” bed you wouldn’t have to sleep in that bed diagonally when you act up.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

My BIL and SIL like their recently purchased X5 PHEV. I think they said they did 30-35 mile runs all electric. And they just charge off a 120 outlet I think.

I've heard of these - Lexus has NX - I saw some very positive reviews. I think they may have even a bit larger EV range. That's kind of concept I may like - mild PI hybrid, with all- electric first that essentially makes work commute and errand runs on electric and then seamlessly engages gas engine on longer trips.
This is something even I could get interested in, as an idea, but unfortunately there is very little supply of them and they are also very expensive out of the gate (e.g. NX 450h+ is 65 grand plus taxes and junk fees, perhaps ADMs, too).

Junk fees and ADM seem to be particularly prevalent in Florida. As if $1000 doc fees weren’t enough.

My BIL’s grandson bought a new Honda Accord near Orlando and the add-ons brought a $32k car up to $40k.

————————————————
I thought it was unlawful, even in Florida, for a dealer to hold a gun to the heads of customer’s until they bought the car. But maybe I’m wrong.

jmonroe

dino001

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

My BIL and SIL like their recently purchased X5 PHEV. I think they said they did 30-35 mile runs all electric. And they just charge off a 120 outlet I think.

I've heard of these - Lexus has NX - I saw some very positive reviews. I think they may have even a bit larger EV range. That's kind of concept I may like - mild PI hybrid, with all- electric first that essentially makes work commute and errand runs on electric and then seamlessly engages gas engine on longer trips.
This is something even I could get interested in, as an idea, but unfortunately there is very little supply of them and they are also very expensive out of the gate (e.g. NX 450h+ is 65 grand plus taxes and junk fees, perhaps ADMs, too).

Junk fees and ADM seem to be particularly prevalent in Florida. As if $1000 doc fees weren’t enough.

My BIL’s grandson bought a new Honda Accord near Orlando and the add-ons brought a $32k car up to $40k.

————————————————
I thought it was unlawful, even in Florida, for a dealer to hold a gun to the heads of customer’s until they bought the car. But maybe I’m wrong.

jmonroe

It is (unlawful), but so are oligopolies, price collusion, false advertising, and bunch of other practices happily done by them. If we had real public transit available you can always say nobody needs a car, but that's not the case.

I'm not big on regulation, in fact I'm generally against its heavy hand form, but the shamelessness and shear audacity of Florida dealers in their ripoff practices makes me think they are really asking for it. But unfortunately they also paid for our government, so I don't hold my breadth...

Seems to me that franchise dealership model is close to reaching its shelf live. When established, it allowed car manufactures to unload cost and risk of inventory to third party players in exchange for a portion of the vehicle's price. But recent years see just incredible escalation of the amount of money syphoned by these people from car purchasing process that far outweighs economic value of their service. $500 "Electronic Filing Fee" for something that's done literally in 10-20 minutes on a computer terminal. $1200 "predelivery inspection and preparation fee", when the manufacturer already pays them to get the vehicle off the truck, inspect, clean and gas up. $399 nitrogen when they often don't even bother to put it in the tires and moreover I can get it free from Costco. The list just goes on. It's very clear when they add several thousands to each transaction without adding almost any real economic value, something's got to break. When? I don't know, but to me it's like with college educations - if its economic value keeps diminishing vs. paid price, the disruption is waiting and will likely come at very unexpected time.

ab348

My favorite example of that kind of behavior is found within municipal governments locally. All of them levy a “deed transfer tax” on the buyer of a property. Of course, deeds here are all electronic these days, so the process involves a clerk receiving a copy of a lawyer’s form and sitting in front of a computer to update the tax billing file. The price govt charges the hapless buyer for that one-time service is 1.5% of the sale price. So for a $500,000 property purchase, the buyer has to pay an additional $7500 for the privilege of being sent a tax bill.

roadburner

The first was a love triangle; it’s more than a little suspicious. Two were extremely sad- a 6 and 9 year old shot by their mother. The last one almost certainly was either drug related or involved human trafficking.

cdnpinhead

Now I know what a "lifestyle vehicle" is. My day (or possibly week) is complete.

andres3

roadburner said:

In other news, there have been four murders in my county since last Friday. The latest one was today- a woman shot execution style and left in a ditch.

The world is going off the rails.

No Country for Old Men

laurasdada

Off to Austin, TX for a few days. Do all the cars have steer horns on the front? Or just Caddys?

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

My BIL and SIL like their recently purchased X5 PHEV. I think they said they did 30-35 mile runs all electric. And they just charge off a 120 outlet I think.

I've heard of these - Lexus has NX - I saw some very positive reviews. I think they may have even a bit larger EV range. That's kind of concept I may like - mild PI hybrid, with all- electric first that essentially makes work commute and errand runs on electric and then seamlessly engages gas engine on longer trips.
This is something even I could get interested in, as an idea, but unfortunately there is very little supply of them and they are also very expensive out of the gate (e.g. NX 450h+ is 65 grand plus taxes and junk fees, perhaps ADMs, too).

Junk fees and ADM seem to be particularly prevalent in Florida. As if $1000 doc fees weren’t enough.

My BIL’s grandson bought a new Honda Accord near Orlando and the add-ons brought a $32k car up to $40k.

————————————————
I thought it was unlawful, even in Florida, for a dealer to hold a gun to the heads of customer’s until they bought the car. But maybe I’m wrong.

jmonroe

This is why so many young people are underwater on cars. Having hot pants for that shiny new toy can shut down your brain.

I wanted to ask my BIL if he tried talking him out of it but I was afraid of the answer.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

My BIL and SIL like their recently purchased X5 PHEV. I think they said they did 30-35 mile runs all electric. And they just charge off a 120 outlet I think.

I've heard of these - Lexus has NX - I saw some very positive reviews. I think they may have even a bit larger EV range. That's kind of concept I may like - mild PI hybrid, with all- electric first that essentially makes work commute and errand runs on electric and then seamlessly engages gas engine on longer trips.
This is something even I could get interested in, as an idea, but unfortunately there is very little supply of them and they are also very expensive out of the gate (e.g. NX 450h+ is 65 grand plus taxes and junk fees, perhaps ADMs, too).

Junk fees and ADM seem to be particularly prevalent in Florida. As if $1000 doc fees weren’t enough.

My BIL’s grandson bought a new Honda Accord near Orlando and the add-ons brought a $32k car up to $40k.

————————————————
I thought it was unlawful, even in Florida, for a dealer to hold a gun to the heads of customer’s until they bought the car. But maybe I’m wrong.

jmonroe

It is (unlawful), but so are oligopolies, price collusion, false advertising, and bunch of other practices happily done by them. If we had real public transit available you can always say nobody needs a car, but that's not the case.

I'm not big on regulation, in fact I'm generally against its heavy hand form, but the shamelessness and shear audacity of Florida dealers in their ripoff practices makes me think they are really asking for it. But unfortunately they also paid for our government, so I don't hold my breadth...

Seems to me that franchise dealership model is close to reaching its shelf live. When established, it allowed car manufactures to unload cost and risk of inventory to third party players in exchange for a portion of the vehicle's price. But recent years see just incredible escalation of the amount of money syphoned by these people from car purchasing process that far outweighs economic value of their service. $500 "Electronic Filing Fee" for something that's done literally in 10-20 minutes on a computer terminal. $1200 "predelivery inspection and preparation fee", when the manufacturer already pays them to get the vehicle off the truck, inspect, clean and gas up. $399 nitrogen when they often don't even bother to put it in the tires and moreover I can get it free from Costco. The list just goes on. It's very clear when they add several thousands to each transaction without adding almost any real economic value, something's got to break. When? I don't know, but to me it's like with college educations - if its economic value keeps diminishing vs. paid price, the disruption is waiting and will likely come at very unexpected time.

The only way to fight that is to figure the out the door price before you go shopping and then walk out if you can’t reach an agreement. Dealers count on you getting emotional over a car purchase.

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
Here's your truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_Kj0LWAZI

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

The only way to fight that is to figure the out the door price before you go shopping and then walk out if you can’t reach an agreement. Dealers count on you getting emotional over a car purchase.

Agreed. Nobody really needs a Civic at 40 grand. I just wish there were no scammers p selling it at that price and no suckers buying it at that price, so the rest of us don’t have to go through the pain if arguing or having to buy something else.

roadburner

I always negoiate an OTD price; if the dealer doesn't want to play I walk.

jmonroe1

roadburner said:

I always negoiate an OTD price; if the dealer doesn't want to play I walk.

————————————————
So how long have you been walking around barefoot?

FWIW, the last few cars I’ve bought (except Mrs. j’s 2018 Legacy that was bought locally) have been done via internet with out of state dealers. So I don’t even have to get up to leave. I just sit there and say, “thanks for your time. This ain’t gonna work” and just hang up.

When I bought my 2015 Genny from a dealer in Fairfax VA. I think the internet manager called me back about 4 times until they finally met my price. It didn’t hurt that he knew I was talking to a dealership in Akron Ohio for an almost identical car because he could see it in their inventory and had to make it worth my while to drive to Fairfax VA instead of a couple short hours to Akron. And like I said I did this all from the comfort of my home office desk chair.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

laurasdada said:

Off to Austin, TX for a few days. Do all the cars have steer horns on the front? Or just Caddys?

————————————————
Only the ones with gun racks.

jmonroe

stickguy

all my recent ones have been done through the internet people. Mavericks from a dealer that advertises big discounts that way, just emailed the internet manager and a few emails back and forth and a great deal locked up.

Acura I went through one of the car buying sites with a carmax trade quote on the old one. All done via text with the internet guy. And the recent Honda for a relative I got quote from their website and did the rest over the phone with the internet deal lady.

Zero desire at this point to walk in cold to sit down and haggle.

stickguy

With the maverick I had everything done and just had to sign final papers before I ever set foot in the dealership. Everything in finance all prepped and printed out already. Very efficient.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Here's your truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_Kj0LWAZI

Well, that sure would make my trips to the dump faster.😉

I’m puzzled though. It says the truck has 3:31 gears. I have that set up on the Mustang and my understanding is that’s the least aggressive for off the line acceleration. I would think a 3:73 rear end would be better.

I understand the 5.0L in trucks are tuned for more torque than horsepower so maybe that’s the ideal arrangement for a truck.

tjc78

stickguy said:

With the maverick I had everything done and just had to sign final papers before I ever set foot in the dealership. Everything in finance all prepped and printed out already. Very efficient.

Last three I leased were through brokers. For the deals I’ve gotten and how quick and easy it was the small expense was worth it.

stickguy

The Honda deal I basically was the broker. The buyer just had to call the dealer I worked the numbers out with. But she ended up stopping at their local Honda dealer who initially was much higher, but grudgingly caved when she pulled out the email with the deal I put together and matched it (just about).

Definitely a broker is a good way to buy

snakeweasel

laurasdada said:

Off to Austin, TX for a few days. Do all the cars have steer horns on the front? Or just Caddys?

Just the ones with poor brakes.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Here's your truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_Kj0LWAZI

Well, that sure would make my trips to the dump faster.😉

I’m puzzled though. It says the truck has 3:31 gears. I have that set up on the Mustang and my understanding is that’s the least aggressive for off the line acceleration. I would think a 3:73 rear end would be better.

I understand the 5.0L in trucks are tuned for more torque than horsepower so maybe that’s the ideal arrangement for a truck.

It is if you want towing and hauling capacity as it's torque that gets you moving.

tjc78

stickguy said:

The Honda deal I basically was the broker. The buyer just had to call the dealer I worked the numbers out with. But she ended up stopping at their local Honda dealer who initially was much higher, but grudgingly caved when she pulled out the email with the deal I put together and matched it (just about).

Definitely a broker is a good way to buy

When I got the S60 in 2019 I beat the broker deal (saved the fee) but I spent many hours seeking out the unit I would take, emailing dealers, walking them through how I came to my number etc…

explorerx4

!'m guessing the 10 speed can offset the low numerical rear gear. He did say it has a locker which helps, too.

qbrozen

@stickguy said:

you might be selling the Maverick short as a truck, because it is a real one (santa Cruz, that is a lifestyle vehicle mostly). Mav has a payload IIRC of about 1600#s? or 1,200. But it can carry a good amount of weight. And tow rating of 4K. So it can do plenty of real truck things and even the bed, while a little short, can carry quite a bit. Certainly as much as most pickups ever carry.

No, I get it. I studied the numbers. Payload is good, for sure, but the towing is what ultimately convinced me I couldn’t get one. My trailer alone is about 1700. So I could tow one Kei car, but not 2, and nothing beyond a very light compact car. I think Ford should have shot for 5k to at least match the Ridgeline.

explorerx4

If you want more towing than a Maverick, you can get a Ranger(up to 7500 lbs towing capacity).

tjc78

Beautiful off season day here at the shore.

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

If you want more towing than a Maverick, you can get a Ranger(up to 7500 lbs towing capacity).

Yes, I mentioned the Ranger earlier, as well as the Colorado I wanted. Wound up with a $1700 Xterra. lol. 5000-lb towing capacity isn't as much as I wanted, but I had decided that was the minimum that made sense for me (trailer plus 2 Kei cars falls right near that number, depending on the drive wheels).

Michaell

Those are great pictures, Tom! Makes me miss the Pacific I grew up next to.

Almost 60 here in Denver today, and since all the leaves have fallen off the trees in the front yard, I thought I'd get the last mow of the season done and clean things up.

stickguy

I would agree that if towing heavier trailers (like cars) is your intended use, a small truck like the Maverick is not the best tool for the job. Though I would guess most buyers either never tow, or nothing more than a very compact camper, a jet ski trailer, or lightweight utility trailer.

Heck, if I wanted to tow 5K plus on a regular basis, I would skip past the ranger and just get a full sized truck.

stickguy

Jersey shore was always nice in the fall. And much, much quieter! Might be more open where Tom is, but a lot of the smaller towns north of there (like where we go) pretty much shut down, especially after Christmas. We would go down in January or February to look at rentals on a Saturday, and there were 2-3 places open and pretty much no people.

stickguy

had another house shopping stop today. Had to go to the flooring store to pick all that out. Seems odd since it won't be going in until late spring probably, but builder told us to go. And even though framing is underway, still has not asked about siding or shingle color. I guess he needed to confirm what we were doing with the stairs now.

but in a shocking (to me) turn of events, not only did we pretty quickly pick out hard surfaces and carpet selections they were both from the included selections. So other than upgrading some carpet padding (should not be too much) no upcharges there.

stopped to look at construction progress. was hoping for more framing up but no such luck (really want them to get it weathertight quickly, and it might be dry through next weekend). decking is all down, and some of the 1st floor walls are up.

I got to walk around in my new garage. And measured to make sure it was as big as expected (it looks a lot smaller when it is just a foundation).

imidazol97

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Here's your truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_Kj0LWAZI

Well, that sure would make my trips to the dump faster.😉

I’m puzzled though. It says the truck has 3:31 gears. I have that set up on the Mustang and my understanding is that’s the least aggressive for off the line acceleration. I would think a 3:73 rear end would be better.

I understand the 5.0L in trucks are tuned for more torque than horsepower so maybe that’s the ideal arrangement for a truck.

It is if you want towing and hauling capacity as it's torque that gets you moving.

tjc78

@Michaell Thanks!!

I drained the outdoor shower lines today (I’m a nice guy and did my neighbors too) and took the golf cart for a nice ride. Will run some stuff up to the dump tomorrow and won’t be back down until after Thanksgiving.

@stickguy
It’s extremely quiet but they do more here in the offseason than OC or Sea Isle for sure. Some very nice activities for the kids heading into Christmas.

jmonroe1

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:

The Honda deal I basically was the broker. The buyer just had to call the dealer I worked the numbers out with. But she ended up stopping at their local Honda dealer who initially was much higher, but grudgingly caved when she pulled out the email with the deal I put together and matched it (just about).

Definitely a broker is a good way to buy

When I got the S60 in 2019 I beat the broker deal (saved the fee) but I spent many hours seeking out the unit I would take, emailing dealers, walking them through how I came to my number etc…

————————————————
Why would you have to tell the dealer how you got your number? I never did that. With all the info out there today they should know how I got my number. They know what they have to get to make the sale. They either accept my number or I move on. I’ve never called a dealer back once I hang up but I’ve had a few who have called me back.

jmonroe

tjc78

J - dealers love to play games with leases. When negotiating many times their payment didn’t match mine and they asked how I got that number. When doing so most times they marked up the MF, “forgot” an incentive, etc.

stickguy

I'm not sure if I ever broke down how I got my number. Especially since most of the time, the answer was "that is what I wanted to pay"

I did get the princesses 1st Jetta that way. I think they were at ~$300/mo "special internet price" and I offered $225. which of course shocked them, so I said guess we can't make a deal, and went across the street for pizza before heading home. 10 minutes later they called to say come get your car, so we went back over, signed some papers, and took it home.

shocked me actually, but I was not going to argue.

stickguy

tjc78 said:

J - dealers love to play games with leases. When negotiating many times their payment didn’t match mine and they asked how I got that number. When doing so most times they marked up the MF, “forgot” an incentive, etc.

I am sure it was dumb, but I did not care on a lease what they were doing. If my DAS and monthly payment # was accepted, I did not care less what they did to get it.

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Here's your truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_Kj0LWAZI

Well, that sure would make my trips to the dump faster.😉

I’m puzzled though. It says the truck has 3:31 gears. I have that set up on the Mustang and my understanding is that’s the least aggressive for off the line acceleration. I would think a 3:73 rear end would be better.

I understand the 5.0L in trucks are tuned for more torque than horsepower so maybe that’s the ideal arrangement for a truck.

It is if you want towing and hauling capacity as it's torque that gets you moving.

There is no horsepower without torque, and you will go nowhere without torque.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

I'm not sure if I ever broke down how I got my number. Especially since most of the time, the answer was "that is what I wanted to pay"

I did get the princesses 1st Jetta that way. I think they were at ~$300/mo "special internet price" and I offered $225. which of course shocked them, so I said guess we can't make a deal, and went across the street for pizza before heading home. 10 minutes later they called to say come get your car, so we went back over, signed some papers, and took it home.

shocked me actually, but I was not going to argue.

I would say never break down how you got your number, either it's doable or it's not. All you do by breaking down your number is give them an opportunity to pick it apart.

ronsteve

Off season is always better on the coast. October was my favorite time of year when I lived on the NC coast... tourists were done for the year, but the weather was just getting nice. Though one time I decided to explore the OBX pretty late in October, and it seemed like quite a few things had closed for the season. Of course that may have changed over the last 20 years...

laurasdada

From Austin, Tx: Saw a Fisker Ocean drive by; first one I've seen in the wild. Matte gray finish, perhaps a wrap? Nice enough looking, but just another SUV.
Also saw a Rivian SUV.

As for my brief day in downtown Austin (strolling 6th st and then up/down Congress); I'm just not a city guy, they all look alike to me. The capitol area was nice, lots of green grass around the large building. Noted one statue describing the proud Confederacy and the Northern oppressors. Kinda dirty, some homeless folks (always a heartbreaker) and not the wife-hoped-for shoes/boots store on every corner.
Did have a good burger and fries.

oldfarmer50

I heard that Fisker is having some economic problems and is suffering from poor sales. I wonder if they are a target for acquisition by a larger EV company.

kyfdx

oldfarmer50 said:

I heard that Fisker is having some economic problems and is suffering from poor sales. I wonder if they are a target for acquisition by a larger EV company.

More likely a target for bankruptcy

laurasdada

Thanks for posting, i thought I had killed this thread!

jmonroe1

laurasdada said:

Thanks for posting, i thought I had killed this thread!

————————————————
If at first you don’t succeed, try try again.

jmonroe

laurasdada

Was it something I typed?

jmonroe1

laurasdada said:

Was it something I typed?

————————————————
Could be since you didn’t seem to be trying to revive the dishwasher subject.

jmonroe