Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

mjfloyd1

I purchased jump starter boxes for all of our cars.

My oldest daughter away at college came across another college student at Kroger with a dead battery.

I got this series of texts

Dad
I’m so cool
I just jumped a car
With my thingy

It’s the little victories 😂

28firefighter

The best thing is you taught her how to do it that she was confident to help someone else. That independence is so critical to not need “the guy” for everything. Checking tire pressure and filling them, changing a spare, jumping a car, checking oil, etc.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

Carvana likely had some duds. But also home runs. What really matters is how they average out in the end!

And IIRC their real profit center was doing financing.

Carvana was a crooked business from the start. They have had their dealer license suspended multiple times by multiple jurisdictions for failure of filing the title/registration paperwork in timely manner (some people would not get their registration for months), in response crying persecution of "disruptor". They did not inspect their cars as they advertised, basically hoping that you won't notice the problems within the guaranteed refund period (7 days of ownership), their pricing algorithm was a complete joke, running up wholesale and retail values beyond ridiculous. They did not properly disclosed nature and extent of relationships with DriveTime, business owned by CEO's father. They were burning cash for most of their existence, their income statements and cash flows are just spooky. They couldn't make GAAP profit even at best of times, i.e. during car shortage and zero interest periods (-$2.63 EPS in 2020, -$1.63 in 2021, so no surprise that we get -$15.74 in 2022). Their balance sheet is currently showing net debt of $7.8B, basically matching market cap, which means shareholder. They burned through billions of cash in last few years. It just amazes me that there is still $7.5B market capitalization on that company. In my opinion it should be around zero.

I may be misremembering the IRS rules but from my days of running a business I thought you had to show a profit in 3 out of 5 years in order to not be considered a “hobby”. Is that only true for sole proprietors or for corporations too?

jmonroe1

28firefighter said:

The best thing is you taught her how to do it that she was confident to help someone else. That independence is so critical to not need “the guy” for everything. Checking tire pressure and filling them, changing a spare, jumping a car, checking oil, etc.

————————————————
I got a call one nice Summer day from Mrs. j that she had a flat tire. She had just pulled out of the grocery store parking lot and pulled way over onto the shoulder of the road and walked back to the grocery store with both of our sons to call me. This was in the mid 70’s so no cell phones. She was only a couple of miles from where I was working so it was no problem to go help her but to have some fun I told her to let Son #1 change the tire and not bother me. She didn’t think that was funny and said, “he already asked me to let him do it but I’m not going to let an 8 year old do that so stop playing around and get over here”.

When I showed up I said to my Son, “OK, show your Mom how to do it”. I knew he couldn’t break the lug nuts loose but I let him open the trunk, drag out my tripod jack set it up and try. He couldn’t do it so I did that part but he had every sequence of changing a flat tire down pat because he liked to help me when I did stuff on the car.

FWIW, this car had hub caps and he knew how to remove them and remembered to put the lug nuts in the upside down hub cap. When I asked him why he did that his answer was, “so this dirt doesn’t get all over them”. I then asked him what he’d do if there wasn’t any hub cap and he said, “I’d put them in my pocket like you told me to do”. Yep, he knew what to do alright. He just had to get a little stronger.

jmonroe

driver100

...or teach him how to call AAA.
Keep America working!

imidazol97

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

Wow. Legos have changed since out son (now 30's) was building them, avidly.

In fact, he has a huge spaceship that he built last year. Star Trek?

Star Wars; I'd love to build the Razor Crest, but at $600 it's a bit pricey...

I suspect it was this one: Star Wars, not Star Trek.



https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Ultimate-Millennium-Falcon-Building/dp/B075SDMMMV/ref=asc_df_B075SDMMMV/?hvadid=309833764739&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8610056377899700333&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9051563&hvtargid=pla-492202548888&psc=1&mcid=1fc4a185059932efb285053de630c885&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=62057315659&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309833764739&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8610056377899700333&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9051563&hvtargid=pla-492202548888

jmonroe1

imidazol97 said:

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

Wow. Legos have changed since out son (now 30's) was building them, avidly.

In fact, he has a huge spaceship that he built last year. Star Trek?

Star Wars; I'd love to build the Razor Crest, but at $600 it's a bit pricey...

I suspect it was this one: Star Wars, not Star Trek.



https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Ultimate-Millennium-Falcon-Building/dp/B075SDMMMV/ref=asc_df_B075SDMMMV/?hvadid=309833764739&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8610056377899700333&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9051563&hvtargid=pla-492202548888&psc=1&mcid=1fc4a185059932efb285053de630c885&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=62057315659&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309833764739&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8610056377899700333&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9051563&hvtargid=pla-492202548888

————————————————
No thanks. I think I could flip a house faster than build that thing.

jmonroe

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

I may be misremembering the IRS rules but from my days of running a business I thought you had to show a profit in 3 out of 5 years in order to not be considered a “hobby”. Is that only true for sole proprietors or for corporations too?

Can’t speak about sole proprietor business, but publicly traded businesses can run GAAP losses for years or decades. Investor’s patience is the only limit. Just look at Amazon, Netflix, 95 percent ospf SPACs from 2020-2022.

qbrozen

Less than 2 yrs in the car biz and both showing losses. Been a landlord for about 9 yrs now and have always shown a loss. That’s not a registered business but have to claim the income and losses each year. I am working on taxes now and the MB condo comes down to a net $900 loss. For those wondering why I’d do it in that case: it means, out of all utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance, and mortgage interest, we paid just $900. Renters paid the rest. And, technically, we didn’t even pay $900 because I claimed a little over $1k of travel and use of the van for maintenance purposes.

The car biz is something like a $13k loss. Haven’t settled all those numbers yet. Still have expenses to add. Might be closer to $20k in the end.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

Less than 2 yrs in the car biz and both showing losses. Been a landlord for about 9 yrs now and have always shown a loss. That’s not a registered business but have to claim the income and losses each year. I am working on taxes now and the MB condo comes down to a net $900 loss. For those wondering why I’d do it in that case: it means, out of all utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance, and mortgage interest, we paid just $900. Renters paid the rest. And, technically, we didn’t even pay $900 because I claimed a little over $1k of travel and use of the van for maintenance purposes.

The car biz is something like a $13k loss. Haven’t settled all those numbers yet. Still have expenses to add. Might be closer to $20k in the end.

————————————————
You’re the perfect candidate for my accounting methods.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

Carvana likely had some duds. But also home runs. What really matters is how they average out in the end!

And IIRC their real profit center was doing financing.

Carvana was a crooked business from the start. They have had their dealer license suspended multiple times by multiple jurisdictions for failure of filing the title/registration paperwork in timely manner (some people would not get their registration for months), in response crying persecution of "disruptor". They did not inspect their cars as they advertised, basically hoping that you won't notice the problems within the guaranteed refund period (7 days of ownership), their pricing algorithm was a complete joke, running up wholesale and retail values beyond ridiculous. They did not properly disclosed nature and extent of relationships with DriveTime, business owned by CEO's father. They were burning cash for most of their existence, their income statements and cash flows are just spooky. They couldn't make GAAP profit even at best of times, i.e. during car shortage and zero interest periods (-$2.63 EPS in 2020, -$1.63 in 2021, so no surprise that we get -$15.74 in 2022). Their balance sheet is currently showing net debt of $7.8B, basically matching market cap, which means shareholder. They burned through billions of cash in last few years. It just amazes me that there is still $7.5B market capitalization on that company. In my opinion it should be around zero.

I may be misremembering the IRS rules but from my days of running a business I thought you had to show a profit in 3 out of 5 years in order to not be considered a “hobby”. Is that only true for sole proprietors or for corporations too?

The 3 out of 5 rules only applies to businesses where the profits pass through to the owners personal tax returns, such as sole proprietors, partnerships and the like. It does not apply to businesses like GM or Apple which file their own tax returns.

explorerx4

I thought some of you might find this inspirational.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqEaejcxla4

kyfdx

Real Estate is different, obviously.

But, the key isn't just gain or loss, it's revenue. Do you have a business that is generating revenue? If you bring in $50K/yr, but show a $20K loss, then probably doesn't raise any red flags. But, if you go 3+ year with zero revenue? Big flags.

qbrozen

jmonroe1 said:

qbrozen said:

Less than 2 yrs in the car biz and both showing losses. Been a landlord for about 9 yrs now and have always shown a loss. That’s not a registered business but have to claim the income and losses each year. I am working on taxes now and the MB condo comes down to a net $900 loss. For those wondering why I’d do it in that case: it means, out of all utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance, and mortgage interest, we paid just $900. Renters paid the rest. And, technically, we didn’t even pay $900 because I claimed a little over $1k of travel and use of the van for maintenance purposes.

The car biz is something like a $13k loss. Haven’t settled all those numbers yet. Still have expenses to add. Might be closer to $20k in the end.

————————————————
You’re the perfect candidate for my accounting methods.

jmonroe

does the method involve you taking care of all this for me for free?

stickguy

no, but he will visit you once a month in the slammer.

Michaell

@snakeweasel said:
The 3 out of 5 rules only applies to businesses where the profits pass through to the owners personal tax returns, such as sole proprietors, partnerships and the like. It does not apply to businesses like GM or Apple which file their own tax returns.

Guess it’s good that the cooking studio has made a small profit the last couple of years. I pick up the 2023 returns later this week.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

jmonroe1 said:

qbrozen said:

Less than 2 yrs in the car biz and both showing losses. Been a landlord for about 9 yrs now and have always shown a loss. That’s not a registered business but have to claim the income and losses each year. I am working on taxes now and the MB condo comes down to a net $900 loss. For those wondering why I’d do it in that case: it means, out of all utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance, and mortgage interest, we paid just $900. Renters paid the rest. And, technically, we didn’t even pay $900 because I claimed a little over $1k of travel and use of the van for maintenance purposes.

The car biz is something like a $13k loss. Haven’t settled all those numbers yet. Still have expenses to add. Might be closer to $20k in the end.

————————————————
You’re the perfect candidate for my accounting methods.

jmonroe

does the method involve you taking care of all this for me for free?

————————————————
I never said that but to relieve @stickguy’s concern, if things go south, I don’t charge to make semi-monthly visits to the slammer.

jmonroe

explorerx4

Back then, Ford downrated their V8's not in a Mustang or MK VII LSC.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I may be misremembering the IRS rules but from my days of running a business I thought you had to show a profit in 3 out of 5 years in order to not be considered a “hobby”. Is that only true for sole proprietors or for corporations too?

Can’t speak about sole proprietor business, but publicly traded businesses can run GAAP losses for years or decades. Investor’s patience is the only limit. Just look at Amazon, Netflix, 95 percent ospf SPACs from 2020-2022.

So the little guy gets screwed again.🥲

houdini1

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

I suppose I'll also need this set:

————————————————
When we went over to Son #1’s house for dinner last week, Grandson #4 showed me 2 Lego cars that he had just build. He said they cost around 60 bucks each and took about 8 hours to build both. Sorry I can’t remember what the cars are even though he told me twice.

jmonroe

I wonder what they cost if already assembled?

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

stickguy said:

Carvana likely had some duds. But also home runs. What really matters is how they average out in the end!

And IIRC their real profit center was doing financing.

Carvana was a crooked business from the start. They have had their dealer license suspended multiple times by multiple jurisdictions for failure of filing the title/registration paperwork in timely manner (some people would not get their registration for months), in response crying persecution of "disruptor". They did not inspect their cars as they advertised, basically hoping that you won't notice the problems within the guaranteed refund period (7 days of ownership), their pricing algorithm was a complete joke, running up wholesale and retail values beyond ridiculous. They did not properly disclosed nature and extent of relationships with DriveTime, business owned by CEO's father. They were burning cash for most of their existence, their income statements and cash flows are just spooky. They couldn't make GAAP profit even at best of times, i.e. during car shortage and zero interest periods (-$2.63 EPS in 2020, -$1.63 in 2021, so no surprise that we get -$15.74 in 2022). Their balance sheet is currently showing net debt of $7.8B, basically matching market cap, which means shareholder. They burned through billions of cash in last few years. It just amazes me that there is still $7.5B market capitalization on that company. In my opinion it should be around zero.

I may be misremembering the IRS rules but from my days of running a business I thought you had to show a profit in 3 out of 5 years in order to not be considered a “hobby”. Is that only true for sole proprietors or for corporations too?

The 3 out of 5 rules only applies to businesses where the profits pass through to the owners personal tax returns, such as sole proprietors, partnerships and the like. It does not apply to businesses like GM or Apple which file their own tax returns.

Speaking of taxes, last year after doing my own for 50 years I went to a private tax preparer. Unfortunately, the guy turned out to be a flake and so far hasn’t finished last year’s taxes. So I’m looking for a replacement.

Do these commercial preparers like H&R Block offer good value? My taxes are pretty simple these days, mainly just a W2, pensions, social security and minor capital gains (sch. D).

stickguy

speaking of taxes, my morning project was preparing for that fun event (next Sunday's project). Pulled out the folder and inventoried all the forms that came in the mail, and logging in to print off the investment statements that are electronic delivery (IOW you want it, come and get it). Looks like only missing a couple, and probably nothing I have to get. but all the important stuff to load into the software to see how badly I am getting hammered this year!

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I may be misremembering the IRS rules but from my days of running a business I thought you had to show a profit in 3 out of 5 years in order to not be considered a “hobby”. Is that only true for sole proprietors or for corporations too?

Can’t speak about sole proprietor business, but publicly traded businesses can run GAAP losses for years or decades. Investor’s patience is the only limit. Just look at Amazon, Netflix, 95 percent ospf SPACs from 2020-2022.

So the little guy gets screwed again.🥲

when the little guy pays the lobbyists and buys a few congresspeople, he will get gifts too.

explorerx4

I'm still waiting for one Brokerage statement. They say it could until the end of the month.
Last year I got it on the 6th.
Decided to close the account since it was expensive, a pain for the tax preparer and I never got along with my assigned financial advisor.

kyfdx

@oldfarmer50 If they're simple and you've done them for 50 years, just get Turbotax for $100, and do them yourself. Easy.

stickguy

kyfdx said:

@oldfarmer50 If they're simple and you've done them for 50 years, just get Turbotax for $100, and do them yourself. Easy.

I pay about $35-40 (depending on the coupon I can find) for HR Block (tax cut or whatever they call it now). Federal + state. Includes fed Efile (and nice perk, NY is free because it is required by state law(=).

laurasdada

Same, I've been using (HR Block) Tax Cut for years. No issues that I'm aware of, although I don't pay the $19.95 to state file; I Homer Simpson it April 15 11:59pm at the PO; less than half the price to certify mail it.
You don't become a thousandaire wasting money!

stickguy

I never paid the extra ($10 or $20?) to Efile NJ. I just printed it off an mailed that. But I paid the extra to have the software do the state for me also.

got a nice surprise last year to find out HRB was not allowed to charge extra for NY Efiling. and this year, should not have to file for NJ again.

kyfdx

TurboTax includes state calculations, but eFiling state is extra.

I assumed @oldfarmer50 is self-employed, so he might need the more expensive software.

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I may be misremembering the IRS rules but from my days of running a business I thought you had to show a profit in 3 out of 5 years in order to not be considered a “hobby”. Is that only true for sole proprietors or for corporations too?

Can’t speak about sole proprietor business, but publicly traded businesses can run GAAP losses for years or decades. Investor’s patience is the only limit. Just look at Amazon, Netflix, 95 percent ospf SPACs from 2020-2022.

So the little guy gets screwed again.🥲

This one I don't quite follow. "Little guy" cleaned out really well on Netflix and Amazon, all they needed to do was to buy and hold. For that matter some of the best investments are often made when the company is still GAAP unprofitable, as it's investing into its own future. The key is to distinguish that from flawed business model that is just supported by ogles cash (borrowed or thrown at them by investors). On the other hand, nobody forces anybody to buy SPACs or any non-profitable/cash flow negative company for that matter. There is/was plenty literature available showing how risky questionable their particular businesses were, not to mention their perverse capital structures and ownership. I simply stayed away and I have very little sympathy to those who bought into FOMO and had to buy these garbage stocks at the peak.
BTW, going into original question (no profit), lack of GAAP profits is not a sole investment disqualifier. There are several other metric and indicators to look at before making determination, whether or not a given Company has a high chance becoming a successful investment, or you're being taken for a ride. Hence we have both Amazon and Virgin Galactic.

EDIT:

I think I just got your statement - you probably meant that an individual person running an unprofitable business is at a disadvantage over companies by these "hobby" provisions, which are designed to prevent somebody to take never ending losses against their primary job income. You can quickly see how that could turn into a giant loophole - running "business" to spend all kinds of money on "business expenses" that are actually personal items. I know people still do that, but it's designed to make it harder on them. Consider that that's for corporations, which are taxed separately from individuals, i.e. even if corporation is unprofitable and pays no taxes, the individual investor in that would still only be able to write off losses on sales of shares, not on company's on-going business and only up to $3000 in extent of gains of that year. That goes into idea of a corporation - device to separate one's wealth from liability in exchange for a double taxation of profits (at the company first then at the owner second).

dino001

kyfdx said:

@oldfarmer50 If they're simple and you've done them for 50 years, just get Turbotax for $100, and do them yourself. Easy.

I've been using TT for nearly 20 years, use Premiere version due to stock market investments, less than $70 at Costco, includes one state return (not using it, but can if need). Simplest TT (no deductions or investments, etc.) is free, now including free e-filing, as a result of a big class action lawsuit and FTC administrative action on to their deceptive "free, free, free, free" ads from past years. One of positive outcomes of Trump's tax reform is such a significant simplification of the taxes that 87 percent of taxpayers use standard deduction, (as opposed to previous arcane deduction schedules that had to be used even by middle class).

abacomike

Last Thursday afternoon, while I was about to enter the pharmacy to pick up some prescriptions, my left foot slipped off the sidewalk edge and down into the dirt causing excruciating pain to my left ankle. I hobbled home, but the swelling and pain was so acute, one of my friends came over and drove me over to the emergency room. After x-raying the left foot and ankle, they found no breaks, but that I had severely sprained the left ankle. Most of my pain is below the outside of my left ankle and down under my foot. After 4 days of keeping off my foot as much as I could (I live alone, so I have to prepare meals, visit the bathroom, etc.), the pain is beginning to subside. I have an appointment to see my primary physician on Wednesday and he might refer me to my orthopedic doctor as I might have torn some ligaments. I'm hoping I can heal without having to see the orthopedist, but it is was it is.

Not easy with my bad back and now the ankle. Getting old is no fun at all - not at all!!!

roadburner

Here’s hoping that you feel better soon.

sda

Mike, hope you have a quick recovery that doesn't require anything more than rest.

jmonroe1

@Mike, you were supposed to listen to me when I said have a better year this year. I don’t know what I’m going to do with you.

Hope you’ll feel better day by day.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

kyfdx said:

TurboTax includes state calculations, but eFiling state is extra.

I assumed @oldfarmer50 is self-employed, so he might need the more expensive software.

Not self-employed any more. Just a W2 wage slave like everybody else.

28firefighter

I have to use the most expensive version of TurboTax due to investments and RSU grants from work. Not complicated and feels like a money grab, but better than paying an accountant.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

I but better than paying an accountant.

Which is what we have to do, because of the business. They also do all of our bookkeeping, and all of the costs can be written off.

kyfdx

I have a friend that bought the qikbooks software, when his wife started a business about 15 years ago. She sold the business and he retired about 2 years ago. Now, his part-time gig is doing the books for three different small businesses.

driver100

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

I but better than paying an accountant.

Which is what we have to do, because of the business. They also do all of our bookkeeping, and all of the costs can be written off.

If it is at all possible, it is best to have an accountant do your taxes for a business. They may know about deductions and write offs the average person wouldn't know about, and while they do straight forward accounting and tax stuff, you can.....hopefully do things to grow the business.

Maybe that is when I realized the value of "The Guy".

explorerx4

Leaving the hospital today after treatment, I drove by a 4 stall charging station, which my belong to another business. All 4 spots had ICE vehicles parked in them. Boo.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

I but better than paying an accountant.

Which is what we have to do, because of the business. They also do all of our bookkeeping, and all of the costs can be written off.

If it is at all possible, it is best to have an accountant do your taxes for a business. They may know about deductions and write offs the average person wouldn't know about, and while they do straight forward accounting and tax stuff, you can.....hopefully do things to grow the business.

Maybe that is when I realized the value of "The Guy".

————————————————
From the start, Son #1 decided to use an accountant for the flip biz. So far it’s working out better than he thought. He was afraid to use my accounting methods.


jmonroe

jmonroe1

explorerx4 said:

Leaving the hospital today after treatment, I drove by a 4 stall charging station, which my belong to another business. All 4 spots had ICE vehicles parked in them. Boo.

————————————————
One of the best ways to stop that is to have the cars tagged but the best way is to have them towed.

jmonroe

ab348

Just to make myself feel better by sharing the misery, beginning on Friday night we got hammered by two snowstorms. Between the two of them we got about 2 to 2 1/2 feet of snow where I am, and up in Cape Breton they had over 3 feet and are in a state of emergency. At least our power stayed on and we are mostly plowed out since the equipment was on the roads throughout trying to keep up. The worse part was yesterday after it was over with the residential streets finally getting cleared enough to use which meant constant burying of the ends of driveways. Thankfully a neighbor took mercy and used his snowblower on a lot of driveways near his house, and I have a guy that takes care of the steps and walkways. I still had to dig the end of my driveway out from snowplow banks twice.

They say we should expect rain by the end of the week.

driver100

@ab348 I saw where you guys got hammered. Do you have AWD on your ATS? Do you get snow tires put on for the winter? Do you have to drive any where?
Where I normally live near Toronto we've only had one snowfall of about 1/2 inch so far this winter. I still prefer being in Florida even though it is in the mid 60s today.....with NO snow!

ab348

My ATS is RWD. I have 4 Michelin X-Ice snows on dedicated rims for winter use. The streets are mostly clear and there is no problem getting around for the most part.

imidazol97

@driver100 said:
@ab348 I saw where you guys got hammered. Do you have AWD on your ATS? Do you get snow tires put on for the winter? Do you have to drive any where?
Where I normally live near Toronto we've only had one snowfall of about 1/2 inch so far this winter. I still prefer being in Florida even though it is in the mid 60s today.....with NO snow!

The last thing we want to hear here in snow country is about how nice it is in Fl. LOL

Acquaintances from Chick Fil A went to their Fl house after Christmas. He's a pickleball fanatic. When we had our cold days he sent a message back.

Luckily we've had little snow. So far. Fingers crossed. We've had many winters like this in my lifetime.

venture

jmonroe1 said:

explorerx4 said:

Leaving the hospital today after treatment, I drove by a 4 stall charging station, which my belong to another business. All 4 spots had ICE vehicles parked in them. Boo.

————————————————
One of the best ways to stop that is to have the cars tagged but the best way is to have them towed.

jmonroe

I don't think there are any laws that say you can't park there.

Probably the best way would put them far out in the parking lot instead of up real close to the building.

andres3

I'm going to start a business where I retrofit your ICE car with an electric charging terminal to a battery in NOWHERESVILLE so that you can park in those nice parking spaces.

explorerx4

@venture,
I don't know the rules but the chargers were at the end of the parking area not near any building.
The parking lot they were in was full.