Just got back from doing some errands and stopped in at Costco for some gasoline. $2.49 a gallon for PUG.
I think paid $2.29 at my Costco in Tampa.
We have higher gas taxes here in Broward County. My brother pays 18 cents a gallon less up in Ponte Vedra because of our higher taxes here in the southern part of the peninsula.
Re octane, I think you can buy octane boosters so you could in theory get your rating up to 93 in Denver with a can from AutoZone.
Perhaps the Mercerdes dealer would sell you a gold plated can of the stuff, lol.
Driver and I are not the least bit offended by your misspelling of our most honored and revered brand, "Mercedes"!
Driver and I prefer "Mercedes-Benz", but you can spell it any way you want. And, by the way, Mercedes-Benz doesn't sell anything gold plated - they sell only .999 fine gold.
"What's in your safe?"
Actually, I spell it MB. (ESPECIALLY WHEN USING THIS TABLET)
Amsterdam was incredible. Lots of canals, it is kind of like Venice. Buildings are built right in the water. We got a canal tour on a Hop On Hop Off boat...great way to see things you wouldn't normally see.
People like their MRS here, I see lots of them and C Wagon look pretty nice.
I heard on the news diesels make up just 1 % of sales in US.
Just heard an interview of the WV team leader who caught that VW/Audi wasn't working properly. He didn't answer questions well. He would give a non answer.
The interviewers asked if he had a prediction of how much the fuel mileage or performance would be cut if the car were adapted to operate properly as it did during the fudged testing. WV guy said the doctoral student is working on that in his presentation for tomorrow.
When asked if people should "return" their cars to VW, the professor said VW shouldn't be selling them.
Just got back from doing some errands and stopped in at Costco for some gasoline. $2.49 a gallon for PUG.
I think paid $2.29 at my Costco in Tampa.
Filled up the Ford with PUG at my no name station for $2.62 which was the cheapest since Katrina. Later went past a Mobil which had RUG at $2.19. Must be in a price war with the Sunoco across the street because that's the cheapest by a good 15 cents.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
BMW is now under the gun for their diesels exceeding pollution limits. Particularly the M3.
Interesting; especially since BMW has never built a diesel M3- or any diesel M car, for that matter...
Maybe it was an X3. It was 4:45am and I hadn't had my coffee yet.
You are forgiven!
I just read an article that says the same group the tested the VW just finished their test on an X3 diesel and it fails European standards by 11 times and was worse than the Passat they tested.
I had a feeling this might be the scandal of the decade. Imagine what would happen if this turns out to be industry-wide and expands to gasoline engines. That's when we start looking at the EPA and unattainable emissions standards combined with mandates for mpg's that are also unattainable.
I might be pushing it a bit too "heavy" but imagine the potential consequences.
Direct injection technology increased mpg's, power and reduced emissions simultaneously. Then they came out with "stop/start" technology whereby the engine shuts down at traffic lights/idling situations thus reducing emissions and increasing average mpg's.
I just hope this is not an industry-wide problem. It would create a fiasco for government and the industry as well.
I had a feeling this might be the scandal of the decade. Imagine what would happen if this turns out to be industry-wide and expands to gasoline engines. That's when we start looking at the EPA and unattainable emissions standards combined with mandates for mpg's that are also unattainable.
I might be pushing it a bit too "heavy" but imagine the potential consequences.
Direct injection technology increased mpg's, power and reduced emissions simultaneously. Then they came out with "stop/start" technology whereby the engine shuts down at traffic lights/idling situations thus reducing emissions and increasing average mpg's.
I just hope this is not an industry-wide problem. It would create a fiasco for government and the industry as well.
I've often pondered the psychotic behavior of the government as they seesaw back and forth between mandating safety (which increases weight) and milage (which requires reducing weight or employing increasingly sophisticated tech.). It's almost as if they want to make cars too expensive to buy.
On the positive side I saw one of these today:
I swear I saw CL 45 AMG on the rear lid but all the pictures say CLS 45. What's the difference?
The government through its EPA mandates wants all fossil fuel energy use totally eliminated at any and all costs. The mandates they are coming out with for 2025 are almost impossible to achieve if fossil fuels are used to power automobiles. The government is forcing the continued development and use of electricity to power all vehicles or other alternative non-polluting fuels such as hydrogen fuel cells and solar powered vehicles. That is their intent.
So if these mandates continue to restrict automobile manufacturers from producing vehicles with gasoline or diesel fuels, they will have achieved their goals and objectives. It's the only way to ensure the end of fossil fuel usage as an energy source.
Been thinking about what if this cheating is really everybody. Only real solution is to fine them but "grandfather" in the current cars. Which are already so damned clean you can practically suck off the tailpipe.
basically adjust the rules back a bit to reflect reality.
at some point, you can't recall everyone's car, especially if it means buying them back and not being able to send new ones.
dealing with reality is not always the forte of bureaucracy, but sometimes the big picture has to rule.
also gotta assume if there are a number of buy backs or can't sells (the VWs), they are getting shipped somewhere, to a country where they will be legal.
CLS I think is the 4 door coupe, and the CL is the 2 door?
but I am not the expert on these.
CLS 400/550 is the 4 door coupe. They don't make a CL anymore - the S Class Coupe (2 door) took its place - new model. The CLS is built on the E Class chassis.
I had a feeling this might be the scandal of the decade. Imagine what would happen if this turns out to be industry-wide and expands to gasoline engines. That's when we start looking at the EPA and unattainable emissions standards combined with mandates for mpg's that are also unattainable.
I might be pushing it a bit too "heavy" but imagine the potential consequences.
Direct injection technology increased mpg's, power and reduced emissions simultaneously. Then they came out with "stop/start" technology whereby the engine shuts down at traffic lights/idling situations thus reducing emissions and increasing average mpg's.
I just hope this is not an industry-wide problem. It would create a fiasco for government and the industry as well.
I've often pondered the psychotic behavior of the government as they seesaw back and forth between mandating safety (which increases weight) and milage (which requires reducing weight or employing increasingly sophisticated tech.). It's almost as if they want to make cars too expensive to buy.
On the positive side I saw one of these today:
I swear I saw CL 45 AMG on the rear lid but all the pictures say CLS 45. What's the difference?
Been thinking about what if this cheating is really everybody. Only real solution is to fine them but "grandfather" in the current cars. Which are already so damned clean you can practically suck off the tailpipe.
40 times the limit is so clean you can suck the pipe? Those things wouldn't probably have passed limits from the 80's. Of course who knows what they did back then.
Mercedes is upping the horsepower on its 3.0 L V6 twin turbo from 329 (454 torque) to 355 for the 2016 C400 and the 2017 E400. Amazing horsepower for a small V6.
But isn't that the same hp as their own 2.0T in the baby AMG? 350 just ain't all that much these days.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Just got back from doing some errands and stopped in at Costco for some gasoline. $2.49 a gallon for PUG.
I think paid $2.29 at my Costco in Tampa.
Filled up the Ford with PUG at my no name station for $2.62 which was the cheapest since Katrina. Later went past a Mobil which had RUG at $2.19. Must be in a price war with the Sunoco across the street because that's the cheapest by a good 15 cents.
Regardless of the price of gas, demand is tepid, at best. China is pulling hard on the reins of their economy.
Been thinking about what if this cheating is really everybody. Only real solution is to fine them but "grandfather" in the current cars. Which are already so damned clean you can practically suck off the tailpipe.
basically adjust the rules back a bit to reflect reality.
at some point, you can't recall everyone's car, especially if it means buying them back and not being able to send new ones.
dealing with reality is not always the forte of bureaucracy, but sometimes the big picture has to rule.
also gotta assume if there are a number of buy backs or can't sells (the VWs), they are getting shipped somewhere, to a country where they will be legal.
I like your idea. Current EPA standards have become unattainable. Something has to give. Either we relax the rules a bit or eventually go back to horses. When the methane standards get too strict, we start walking. That will cause us to exhale too much carbon dioxide and......
We don't need to relax anything and some more enforcement would be nice to see, especially for the idiots rolling coal. If there's no fix for the VW's, glass 'em.
Need to whack away at the semis and ships too. We've already been down this road with Cummins, Navistar, Caterpillar and others back in '98. Still can't believe we're putting our kids on diesel school buses.
lihe Yeah, I know that the next round of CAFE regulations will be impossible to meet. Just ;like the current omrd were impossible just a few year ago and, sure enough magically one company does it a year early and magically everybody gpt on the same page/
The problem is not regulations. It's people cheating the system intentionally. No wrist slap here. I want some execs doing hard time.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
We have more and more turbocharged engines, some manufacturers went exclusive (BMW), some went quite aggressive (Ford, Benz, etc.). The infrastructure doesn't follow. I wonder how are those turbo premium gas BMWs performing at higher altitudes with lesser grade.
With ever increasing CAFE standards you will see more and more smaller turbocharged engines in order to get the required mileage.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have the feeling that VW isn't going to be hurt long term over this. Americans have short memories.
Fiat brough junk to the U.S and left leaving people in the lurch as their dealerships closed. Years later, they returned once again offering "cute" cars that are at the bottom of the relialbility ratings. People still buy them!
And, this weakling car company owns Chrysler!
Maybe the smart money is on VW stock? It won't be my money!
Remember that Fiat was out of the US market for almost 30 years. The vast majority of their target market had no experience with Fiat, that makes a big difference.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'll have to admit that a 2015 Camaro SS 1LE was not on my radar, but a couple of fellow HPDE instructors suggested I check it out. The 1LE package gets you most of the ZL1's suspension pieces, 20" wheels, and other upgrades to the drivetrain. The car I drove was a 2SS with the RS package, which pretty much means that you get all the bells and whistles one could want- HIDs, HUD, heated seats, Boston Acoustics audio, etc. On top of all that, it also had the optional Recaros and the dual-mode performance exhaust.
The Camaro interior was refreshed a few years ago, and while it still trails the 2015 Challenger and 2015 Mustang in style and ergonomics, it's no longer a Playskool penalty box. The Recaros are excellent, and-unlike Ford's set in the Mustang-Chevrolet figured out how to heat them. Starting the 6.2 V8 made me smile; it has an old-school key and the exhaust has a throaty rumbling tone(one of my knocks on the Mustang is that the exhaust is way too subdued). The shifter is great, it slots into gear like a fine rifle bolt- with just enough effort to provide useful feedback. The steering is maybe a bit overboosted for my tastes, but acceptable, while the clutch is light and progressive. Nice dead pedal, too.The wheel and shift knob are covered in Alcantara, by the way and feel very nice. The Brembo brakes are top notch- as expected. On the road, the car accelerated about as fast as the 2015 Mustang GTs I have driven. The ride was firm but not punishing, and the car has tons and tons of grip. Car and Driver claims that a 1LE could lap the VIR Grand West Course in under three minutes and I don't doubt it one bit- its incredibly capable(the 1LE gets Goodyear 285/35ZR20 Eagle F1 Supercar G: 2 rubber, by the way).
The downsides? Just one in my opinion, and it's relatively minor: visibility. Sure, it's OK on the street, but the sightlines make it a bit tough to accurately place the car when hustling in the corners. That said, I'm sure that one would adapt with experience.
I've gone back and forth between hot hatches(Golf R), AWD hooligans(STI), M Sport BMWs, and V8 ponycars, but the list is narrowing. Right now I'd say the Mustang and Camaro are at the top of my list. I really like the Challenger SRT8, but in the end I just prefer lighter and smaller cars- especially when they will see considerable track time. The Mustang is probably the best overall package, but the 1LE has immense capabilities for a relatively modest cost. And it's just a riot.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I could not imagine actually driving one of those on a regular basis. I really did not fit comfortably, and I need to see at least something of the surrounding world!
lihe Yeah, I know that the next round of CAFE regulations will be impossible to meet. Just ;like the current omrd were impossible just a few year ago and, sure enough magically one company does it a year early and magically everybody gpt on the same page/
The problem is not regulations. It's people cheating the system intentionally. No wrist slap here. I want some execs doing hard time.
There is only so much energy in a gallon of gas and to get the next 1 MPG out of that gallon will be harder and more costly than the previous 1 MPG increase.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Been thinking about what if this cheating is really everybody. Only real solution is to fine them but "grandfather" in the current cars. Which are already so damned clean you can practically suck off the tailpipe.
basically adjust the rules back a bit to reflect reality.
at some point, you can't recall everyone's car, especially if it means buying them back and not being able to send new ones.
dealing with reality is not always the forte of bureaucracy, but sometimes the big picture has to rule.
also gotta assume if there are a number of buy backs or can't sells (the VWs), they are getting shipped somewhere, to a country where they will be legal.
That's a good point stick. Compared to unrestricted cars of the 60s even diesels are super clean. That's why I think the 40 X more polluting figure is overly alarmist. The general public hears that and wants to put VW out of business.
Perhaps they'll fine VW for each car and make them comply on future vehicles. Somewhere along the line the politicians will realize thst all those diesel owners are voters too. How would you view the party that made your car run like crap?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I like your idea. Current EPA standards have become unattainable. Something has to give. Either we relax the rules a bit or eventually go back to horses. When the methane standards get too strict, we start walking. That will cause us to exhale too much carbon dioxide and......
X2.
The EPA is being used as a way to bypass Congress. Same for rules on coal-fired power plants. All part of an agenda.
Been thinking about what if this cheating is really everybody. Only real solution is to fine them but "grandfather" in the current cars. Which are already so damned clean you can practically suck off the tailpipe.
basically adjust the rules back a bit to reflect reality.
at some point, you can't recall everyone's car, especially if it means buying them back and not being able to send new ones.
dealing with reality is not always the forte of bureaucracy, but sometimes the big picture has to rule.
also gotta assume if there are a number of buy backs or can't sells (the VWs), they are getting shipped somewhere, to a country where they will be legal.
Been thinking about what if this cheating is really everybody. Only real solution is to fine them but "grandfather" in the current cars. Which are already so damned clean you can practically suck off the tailpipe.
basically adjust the rules back a bit to reflect reality.
at some point, you can't recall everyone's car, especially if it means buying them back and not being able to send new ones.
dealing with reality is not always the forte of bureaucracy, but sometimes the big picture has to rule.
also gotta assume if there are a number of buy backs or can't sells (the VWs), they are getting shipped somewhere, to a country where they will be legal.
Stick, that sounds like the best solution.
Scrapping 500000 cars would cause even more pollution, and would aggravate a lot of people, and then there is the loss of jobs.
Something like fine the company, grandfather the cars in, give owners of affected cars a certificate to get a discount on a new car......maybe gas if diesels don't comply.
"Automakers are said to charge the car’s battery before a test, deduct 4 percent from each test result and use incorrect laboratory settings for the inertia of the vehicle. While the companies admit these tricks, they claim they are “legitimate flexibilities”. As a result, the gap between official fuel economy figures and those achieved by an average driver have grown to 40 percent.
"During the past three years, Transport & Environment (T&E), with the support of the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT – the organization that alerted US authorities to its concerns over VW), has exposed several ways carmakers manipulate emissions tests in Europe for both air pollution and CO2 emissions.
"In CO2 tests, T&E says almost every Mercedes model achieves levels on the road over 50 percent higher than the laboratory tests. The BMW 5-Series and Peugeot 308 achieve just under 50 percent higher than in the lab."
It's not clear to me if the last paragraph is referring to diesel only or to all engines and their production of that awful air pollutant CO2.
Let's not forget that a BMW X5 was tested side-by-side with the failed VWs and passed the EPA tests just fine. It's not like the technology doesn't exist or can't be installed. I think we're making some broad judgments with insufficient data when we assume all vehicles will fail emmission standards because two VWs with the same motor are confirmed to have failed, and one BMW is accused of failing by a media outlet that has provided no data to back that up. Maybe something much broader will be uncovered, but the current set of data doesn't indicate such a situation.
I completely agree that crushing the VW diesel vehicles makes no sense from an environmental perspective.
As for VW, here's my proposed action: 1. All associates involved with the deception are fired. VW has already started this process, and they need to take it right down to the person who authored the code. 2. $1 billion fine. 3. $500 million invested by VW in the purchase of US land that has been clear cut of its natural forest or otherwise at risk, repopulated with native trees and natural features, designated as publicly-owned park space, established with walking/biking trails, and cannot be used for any other purpose ($1,000 a car). 4. For the next 20 years, every VW model, including those with gas motors, must go through a rigorous road test to verify emissions meet current standards. VW pays for the extra testing, and if they modify the model motor in any way from year to year including hardware or firmware, it must be re-tested using the same methodology. 5. VW must make all the affected diesels on the road clean. If this results in a degradation in reliability or increase in maintenance costs, then those affected components are covered to 250,000 miles by warranty. If the fix results in increased fuel consumption, they compensate the owners yearly for the extra fuel costs based on new EPA MPG testing. If the fix results in reduced acceleration, the owners are offered $1,500 in compensation for every second of reduction in 0-60 mph. These penalties can be cumulative, meaning they could all apply if the fix reduces performance, reliability, and economy. A buy-back option is provided that allows any customer a generous purchase price factoring in mileage, year, and condition, provided they do not want any of the other options described above (say 1.25 times retail market value).
because two VWs with the same motor are confirmed to have failed, and one BMW is accused of failing by a media outlet that has provided no data to back that up. Maybe something much broader will be uncovered, but the current set of data doesn't indicate such a situation.
"During the past three years, Transport & Environment (T&E), with the support of the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT – the organization that alerted US authorities to its concerns over VW), has exposed several ways carmakers manipulate emissions tests in Europe for both air pollution and CO2 emissions."
"Through trickery, the gap between official fuel economy figures and those achieved by an average driver have grown to 40%. For new diesel cars nitrogen oxide emissions are typically five times higher on the road than the allowed limit and just one in 10 cars meets the required level on the road. But for some models the gap is so large T&E suspects that the car is able to detect when it is tested using a “defeat device” and artificially lowers emissions during the test. For example [*]: a diesel Audi A8 tested in Europe produced nitrogen oxide emissions 21.9 times over the legal limit on the road; a BMW X3 diesel was 9.9 times over the limit on the road; an Opal Zafira Tourer, 9.5 times; Citroen C4 Picasso 5.1 times. All these vehicles passed the laboratory test."
"[*] Source: A compilation of data from respected testing authorities around Europe by Transport & Environment (T&E).
Agreed that diesel may be in trouble, but in the USA, diesel is near non-existent. Thinking all cars on the road in the USA are cheating is a HUGE leap.
I happened upon a TV show called Translogic. Wow, I'm impressed with electric vehicles now. They had electric scooters with fat tires that had to be speed reduced to be road legal. One guy took a 67 Mustang and installed 2 DC motors instead of AC and got a very impressive 1.92 second 0-60, top speed 174 and could do burnouts until the tires gave out. I'm over gas, diesel and all fossil fuels. I'm thinking electric.
Briefing: Six facts about diesel the car industry would rather not tell you | 1. A typical diesel car emits 10 times more nitrogen oxides than an equivalent gasoline car 2. 12 out of 13 Euro 6 diesel cars failed to achieve the Euro 6 limit in tests conducted on the road. The worst vehicle emitted 22 times the allowed limit. 3. Diesel exhaust fumes cause cancer. Nitrogen dioxide causes a range of short-term health effects, like asthma; and longer-term effects that shorten lifetimes. In the air nitrogen oxides are converted into other harmful pollutants like fine particles and ozone. 4. The current system for testing cars in a laboratory is obsolete and produces meaningless results –the figures quoted by ACEA. The car industry is fighting to delay and weaken new on road tests precisely because Euro 6 cars cannot achieve the limits set. 5. On average diesel cars actually emit more, not less CO2 than petrol or hybrid cars. 6. The UK has some of the highest levels of nitrogen dioxide in Europe
Imid, I do think that for personal transportation vehicles, diesel's future could be in serious doubt. BMW has proven the technology for clean emissions by today's standards exists with the X5 utilizing US emissions components (I don't believe the same system is used in Europe). BMW threw everything and the kitchen sink at the US diesels, from urea injection to particulate traps to regens, and I think that philosophy made the difference. Doing so also made the system very expensive and repair prone, so possibly not a great solution in a broader and long-term sense.
I happened upon a TV show called Translogic. Wow, I'm impressed with electric vehicles now. They had electric scooters with fat tires that had to be speed reduced to be road legal. One guy took a 67 Mustang and installed 2 DC motors instead of AC and got a very impressive 1.92 second 0-60, top speed 174 and could do burnouts until the tires gave out. I'm over gas, diesel and all fossil fuels. I'm thinking electric.
I think I just found that show on Youtube. I'll take a look when I get some time later today. Thanks for the heads-up.
My eyes were opened to electric propulsion when I stepped into a Tesla showroom for the first time, and I've been a believer since then. While I don't want to spend Tesla levels of money on a depreciating asset, Tesla has changed my fundamental expectations for cars. I was interested in the VW GTI as part of a desire to return to a fun manual transmission, but the recent scandal in conjunction with VW's reliability challenges has left me cold on that option. I've been thinking the future Honda Si or Type R could be an option to replace the GTI provided they come in 5-door hatchbacks with a manual. But I also keep coming back to the Chevy Volt. I know I'll be going electric in the future, the question that remains is whether that event occurs in my next vehicle or the one after that.
BTW, anyone wanting a killer deal on a smaller vehicle should take a look at the 2012 Volts. Depreciation has been brutal on those, I believe due to public misconception, but the batteries have proven to have very long lives and the vehicles enjoyed the nation's highest owner satisfaction until the Tesla Model S came along. If you live in Colorado and the vehicle has never been used to take advantage of the tax credit, you can get additional thousands of dollars off the used price. Not bad.
"Through trickery, the gap between official fuel economy figures and those achieved by an average driver have grown to 40%. For new diesel cars nitrogen oxide emissions are typically five times higher on the road than the allowed limit and just one in 10 cars meets the required level on the road. But for some models the gap is so large T&E suspects that the car is able to detect when it is tested using a “defeat device” and artificially lowers emissions during the test. For example [*]: a diesel Audi A8 tested in Europe produced nitrogen oxide emissions 21.9 times over the legal limit on the road; a BMW X3 diesel was 9.9 times over the limit on the road; an Opal Zafira Tourer, 9.5 times; Citroen C4 Picasso 5.1 times. All these vehicles passed the laboratory test."
"[*] Source: A compilation of data from respected testing authorities around Europe by Transport & Environment (T&E).
It means essentially, they all do it. I read a similar thing couple of months ago. You know how it will be: officials will all pretend they didn't know and screem "catch the thief". Big European diesel scam, just like I said all along.
To those who say VW's "little" problem is a non-issue that should be swept under the rug, especially by loosening the regs, I'll see your argument and raise you three inhalers.
On the other hand, dirty air creates a lot of other jobs, especially if you are in the medical field.
As part of my job in water quality I receive regular EPA communications, and this morning I was sent a letter regarding VW, directing me to this website for more information:
The FAQ holds some interesting information. What caught my attention is the EPA wrote that VW must create a solution, it could take a year to implement the fix, and that affected owners outside the emissions testing states may not have to implement the fix.
When it comes to owners of the impacted vehicles, it appears the EPA is taking a rather soft approach.
Oh, almost forgot. In the source letter to me, outside the FAQ page, there was an interesting sentence, stating, "Today the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a letter sent to vehicle manufacturers notifying them that the agency is adding to its confirmatory testing additional evaluations designed to look for potential defeat devices."
Looks like all manufacturers can expect more scrutiny in the coming days. I'm betting VW is not the most popular kid in the auto manufacturer playground right now
The FAQ holds some interesting information. What caught my attention is the EPA wrote that VW must create a solution, it could take a year to implement the fix, and that
affected owners outside the emissions testing states may not have to implement the fix.
When it comes to owners of the impacted vehicles, it appears the EPA is taking a rather soft approach.
If the EPA doesn't mandate that every automobile that's polluting has to fix the problem to guarantee my clean air, then I want out coal-fired power plants to be able to continue to produce clean electric power as they do now without having to meet the EPA's agenda-driven requirements that will shut even more of them down. Having cars polluting in an area without contemporaneous testing would be parallel to eliminating coal here while it's exported to areas burning huge amounts of coal such as India and China, polluting all that air which comes around to our side of the globe.
Outrageous that EPA wouldn't require ALL cars to be "fixed."
We don't need to relax anything and some more enforcement would be nice to see, especially for the idiots rolling coal. If there's no fix for the VW's, glass 'em.
Need to whack away at the semis and ships too. We've already been down this road with Cummins, Navistar, Caterpillar and others back in '98. Still can't believe we're putting our kids on diesel school buses.
As someone who has lived through the days when rivers would catch fire from the dumped solvents and sewage I'm not insensitive to evironmentalsts concerns but I question the wisdom of making vehicles unaffordable or undrivable for a 1% reduction in emissions.
Diesel school buses these days must be supremely clean if the amount of time our mechanics spend fixing them are any indication. Turbo diesels provide the torque to get a heavy bus moving in traffic. Years ago our district tried natural gas buses and they were downright dangerous due to slow acceleration. Also remember what happens with gasoline buses.
The FAQ holds some interesting information. What caught my attention is the EPA wrote that VW must create a solution, it could take a year to implement the fix, and that
affected owners outside the emissions testing states may not have to implement the fix.
When it comes to owners of the impacted vehicles, it appears the EPA is taking a rather soft approach.
If the EPA doesn't mandate that every automobile that's polluting has to fix the problem to guarantee my clean air, then I want out coal-fired power plants to be able to continue to produce clean electric power as they do now without having to meet the EPA's agenda-driven requirements that will shut even more of them down. Having cars polluting in an area without contemporaneous testing would be parallel to eliminating coal here while it's exported to areas burning huge amounts of coal such as India and China, polluting all that air which comes around to our side of the globe.
Outrageous that EPA wouldn't require ALL cars to be "fixed."
As I said, someone looked at the voter demographics of those car owners. Must have been a lot in swing states.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Comments
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Amsterdam was incredible. Lots of canals, it is kind of like Venice. Buildings are built right in the water. We got a canal tour on a Hop On Hop Off boat...great way to see things you wouldn't normally see.
People like their MRS here, I see lots of them and C Wagon look pretty nice.
I heard on the news diesels make up just 1 % of sales in US.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
working properly. He didn't answer questions well. He would give a non answer.
The interviewers asked if he had a prediction of how much the fuel mileage or
performance would be cut if the car were adapted to operate properly as it did
during the fudged testing. WV guy said the doctoral student is working on that
in his presentation for tomorrow.
When asked if people should "return" their cars
to VW, the professor said VW shouldn't be selling them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I had a feeling this might be the scandal of the decade. Imagine what would happen if this turns out to be industry-wide and expands to gasoline engines. That's when we start looking at the EPA and unattainable emissions standards combined with mandates for mpg's that are also unattainable.
I might be pushing it a bit too "heavy" but imagine the potential consequences.
Direct injection technology increased mpg's, power and reduced emissions simultaneously. Then they came out with "stop/start" technology whereby the engine shuts down at traffic lights/idling situations thus reducing emissions and increasing average mpg's.
I just hope this is not an industry-wide problem. It would create a fiasco for government and the industry as well.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
On the positive side I saw one of these today:
I swear I saw CL 45 AMG on the rear lid but all the pictures say CLS 45. What's the difference?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The government through its EPA mandates wants all fossil fuel energy use totally eliminated at any and all costs. The mandates they are coming out with for 2025 are almost impossible to achieve if fossil fuels are used to power automobiles. The government is forcing the continued development and use of electricity to power all vehicles or other alternative non-polluting fuels such as hydrogen fuel cells and solar powered vehicles. That is their intent.
So if these mandates continue to restrict automobile manufacturers from producing vehicles with gasoline or diesel fuels, they will have achieved their goals and objectives. It's the only way to ensure the end of fossil fuel usage as an energy source.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
but I am not the expert on these.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
basically adjust the rules back a bit to reflect reality.
at some point, you can't recall everyone's car, especially if it means buying them back and not being able to send new ones.
dealing with reality is not always the forte of bureaucracy, but sometimes the big picture has to rule.
also gotta assume if there are a number of buy backs or can't sells (the VWs), they are getting shipped somewhere, to a country where they will be legal.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2018 430i Gran Coupe
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Gas prices should go lower.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Need to whack away at the semis and ships too. We've already been down this road with Cummins, Navistar, Caterpillar and others back in '98. Still can't believe we're putting our kids on diesel school buses.
The problem is not regulations. It's people cheating the system intentionally. No wrist slap here. I want some execs doing hard time.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The Camaro interior was refreshed a few years ago, and while it still trails the 2015 Challenger and 2015 Mustang in style and ergonomics, it's no longer a Playskool penalty box. The Recaros are excellent, and-unlike Ford's set in the Mustang-Chevrolet figured out how to heat them. Starting the 6.2 V8 made me smile; it has an old-school key and the exhaust has a throaty rumbling tone(one of my knocks on the Mustang is that the exhaust is way too subdued). The shifter is great, it slots into gear like a fine rifle bolt- with just enough effort to provide useful feedback. The steering is maybe a bit overboosted for my tastes, but acceptable, while the clutch is light and progressive. Nice dead pedal, too.The wheel and shift knob are covered in Alcantara, by the way and feel very nice. The Brembo brakes are top notch- as expected. On the road, the car accelerated about as fast as the 2015 Mustang GTs I have driven. The ride was firm but not punishing, and the car has tons and tons of grip. Car and Driver claims that a 1LE could lap the VIR Grand West Course in under three minutes and I don't doubt it one bit- its incredibly capable(the 1LE gets Goodyear 285/35ZR20 Eagle F1 Supercar G: 2 rubber, by the way).
The downsides? Just one in my opinion, and it's relatively minor: visibility. Sure, it's OK on the street, but the sightlines make it a bit tough to accurately place the car when hustling in the corners. That said, I'm sure that one would adapt with experience.
I've gone back and forth between hot hatches(Golf R), AWD hooligans(STI), M Sport BMWs, and V8 ponycars, but the list is narrowing. Right now I'd say the Mustang and Camaro are at the top of my list. I really like the Challenger SRT8, but in the end I just prefer lighter and smaller cars- especially when they will see considerable track time. The Mustang is probably the best overall package, but the 1LE has immense capabilities for a relatively modest cost. And it's just a riot.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Perhaps they'll fine VW for each car and make them comply on future vehicles. Somewhere along the line the politicians will realize thst all those diesel owners are voters too. How would you view the party that made your car run like crap?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The EPA is being used as a way to bypass Congress. Same for rules on coal-fired power plants. All part of an agenda.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Scrapping 500000 cars would cause even more pollution, and would aggravate a lot of people, and then there is the loss of jobs.
Something like fine the company, grandfather the cars in, give owners of affected cars a certificate to get a discount on a new car......maybe gas if diesels don't comply.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/09/diesel-bmw-mercedes-opel-psa-cars.html
"Automakers are said to charge the car’s battery before a test, deduct 4 percent from each test result and use incorrect laboratory settings for the inertia of the vehicle. While the companies admit these tricks, they claim they are “legitimate flexibilities”. As a result, the gap between official fuel economy figures and those achieved by an average driver have grown to 40 percent.
"During the past three years, Transport & Environment (T&E), with the support of the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT – the organization that alerted US authorities to its concerns over VW), has exposed several ways carmakers manipulate emissions tests in Europe for both air pollution and CO2 emissions.
"In CO2 tests, T&E says almost every Mercedes model achieves levels on the road over 50 percent higher than the laboratory tests. The BMW 5-Series and Peugeot 308 achieve just under 50 percent higher than in the lab."
It's not clear to me if the last paragraph is referring to diesel only or to all engines and their production of that awful air pollutant CO2.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I completely agree that crushing the VW diesel vehicles makes no sense from an environmental perspective.
As for VW, here's my proposed action:
1. All associates involved with the deception are fired. VW has already started this process, and they need to take it right down to the person who authored the code.
2. $1 billion fine.
3. $500 million invested by VW in the purchase of US land that has been clear cut of its natural forest or otherwise at risk, repopulated with native trees and natural features, designated as publicly-owned park space, established with walking/biking trails, and cannot be used for any other purpose ($1,000 a car).
4. For the next 20 years, every VW model, including those with gas motors, must go through a rigorous road test to verify emissions meet current standards. VW pays for the extra testing, and if they modify the model motor in any way from year to year including hardware or firmware, it must be re-tested using the same methodology.
5. VW must make all the affected diesels on the road clean. If this results in a degradation in reliability or increase in maintenance costs, then those affected components are covered to 250,000 miles by warranty. If the fix results in increased fuel consumption, they compensate the owners yearly for the extra fuel costs based on new EPA MPG testing. If the fix results in reduced acceleration, the owners are offered $1,500 in compensation for every second of reduction in 0-60 mph. These penalties can be cumulative, meaning they could all apply if the fix reduces performance, reliability, and economy. A buy-back option is provided that allows any customer a generous purchase price factoring in mileage, year, and condition, provided they do not want any of the other options described above (say 1.25 times retail market value).
http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/vw’s-cheating-just-tip-iceberg
"Through trickery, the gap between official fuel economy figures and those achieved by an average driver have grown to 40%. For new diesel cars nitrogen oxide emissions are typically five times higher on the road than the allowed limit and just one in 10 cars meets the required level on the road. But for some models the gap is so large T&E suspects that the car is able to detect when it is tested using a “defeat device” and artificially lowers emissions during the test. For example [*]: a diesel Audi A8 tested in Europe produced nitrogen oxide emissions 21.9 times over the legal limit on the road; a BMW X3 diesel was 9.9 times over the limit on the road; an Opal Zafira Tourer, 9.5 times; Citroen C4 Picasso 5.1 times. All these vehicles passed the laboratory test."
"[*] Source: A compilation of data from respected testing authorities around Europe by Transport & Environment (T&E).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
More from Europe:
http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2015_03_11_TE_Briefing_Six_facts_about_diesel_the_car_industry_would_rather_not_tell_you.pdf
Briefing:
Six facts about diesel the car industry would rather not tell you
|
1. A typical diesel car emits 10 times more nitrogen oxides than an equivalent gasoline car
2. 12 out of 13 Euro 6 diesel cars failed to achieve the Euro 6 limit in tests conducted on the road. The worst
vehicle emitted 22 times the allowed limit.
3. Diesel exhaust fumes cause cancer. Nitrogen dioxide causes a range of short-term health effects, like asthma; and longer-term effects that shorten lifetimes. In the air nitrogen oxides are converted
into other harmful pollutants like fine particles and ozone.
4. The current system for testing cars in a laboratory is obsolete and produces meaningless results
–the figures quoted by ACEA. The car industry is fighting to delay and weaken new on
road tests precisely because Euro 6 cars cannot achieve the limits set.
5. On average diesel cars actually emit more, not less CO2 than petrol or hybrid cars.
6. The UK has some of the highest levels of nitrogen dioxide in Europe
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My eyes were opened to electric propulsion when I stepped into a Tesla showroom for the first time, and I've been a believer since then. While I don't want to spend Tesla levels of money on a depreciating asset, Tesla has changed my fundamental expectations for cars. I was interested in the VW GTI as part of a desire to return to a fun manual transmission, but the recent scandal in conjunction with VW's reliability challenges has left me cold on that option. I've been thinking the future Honda Si or Type R could be an option to replace the GTI provided they come in 5-door hatchbacks with a manual. But I also keep coming back to the Chevy Volt. I know I'll be going electric in the future, the question that remains is whether that event occurs in my next vehicle or the one after that.
BTW, anyone wanting a killer deal on a smaller vehicle should take a look at the 2012 Volts. Depreciation has been brutal on those, I believe due to public misconception, but the batteries have proven to have very long lives and the vehicles enjoyed the nation's highest owner satisfaction until the Tesla Model S came along. If you live in Colorado and the vehicle has never been used to take advantage of the tax credit, you can get additional thousands of dollars off the used price. Not bad.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
On the other hand, dirty air creates a lot of other jobs, especially if you are in the medical field.
www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm
The FAQ holds some interesting information. What caught my attention is the EPA wrote that VW must create a solution, it could take a year to implement the fix, and that affected owners outside the emissions testing states may not have to implement the fix.
When it comes to owners of the impacted vehicles, it appears the EPA is taking a rather soft approach.
Looks like all manufacturers can expect more scrutiny in the coming days. I'm betting VW is not the most popular kid in the auto manufacturer playground right now
Outrageous that EPA wouldn't require ALL cars to be "fixed."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Diesel school buses these days must be supremely clean if the amount of time our mechanics spend fixing them are any indication. Turbo diesels provide the torque to get a heavy bus moving in traffic. Years ago our district tried natural gas buses and they were downright dangerous due to slow acceleration. Also remember what happens with gasoline buses.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible