Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

The dealerships are being hurt hard.  I visited 3 VW and 2 Audi dealerships today as a sort of "nosing around" activity because I wanted to test my hypothesis that business is dead due to the adverse affects of the media reports and the investigations underway.

The showrooms were all but deserted except for salespeople at the VW dealerships.  There was some traffic at the two Audi dealerships.  Two of the VW dealerships are neck and neck for the national sales leader, but it didn't seem to matter. 

My my visits were very short, just a look see.  I visited local dealers this morning and dealers 35 minutes away this afternoon.  It could be the times of day I sneaked a peek, and my findings are in no way scientific.  But I saw what I saw.

I am sure business will pick up as we enter the last few days of the month - the usual busy times.

Sandman6472

We happen to live within 2 miles of the local VW store, Gunther on State Road 7 and the Audi store, within my housing development, and have never been at them when they had no customers. Today being a holiday, I would expect many places to be quieter due to this fact and since schools are closed, folks who have taken off are probably everywhere else besides at a car dealer. Since the majority of folks owning VW and Audi in America have gas powered vehicles, don't really see any problem or not as bad as being predicted in here. No, the sky isn't going to fall here and just like every other manufacturer who has had similar situations, this will all blow over in time.
As our first stab into German car ownership, funny that we both did it within a couple of weeks last December and honestly, if I had had the same budget as my wife's, there'd be two A3's in our garage right now. But things just didn't equal out and I had less dollars to deal with so went with the Golf...since I tend to prefer hatchbacks, it all worked out. Hit 10k on Monday and having a few teething problems so far, am very happy so far. The A3 has been flawless and only goes back for it's bi-weekly free car wash/vacuum. Needless to say, we are both very pleased with our vehicles!

The Sandman

verdugo

abacomike said:

I won't buy Citgo gas because of where the oil that is refined to produce it originates from.  Also, I only buy top tier gasoline so that eliminates at least half the brands of gas.

I won't go to Citgo either. Great minds think alike!

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Just saw a VW commercial where a local VW dealer was offering "$2000 over book" for all trades. Dealers must be getting worried.

I think that is the real story here that the media has so far completely overlooked. The impact on VW dealers, especially smaller family-owned dealerships, might be devastating.

Heard a report that VW was already compensating USA VW dealers with some cash. That was fast if true. Now I think customers should come first, but that's just me.

Let's not lose perspective - those are not immediate death traps. The conduct was criminal and brazen, but customers can wait even a few months. Dealers on the other hand had to borrow money to buy the inventory they can't sell - not just directly affected units, but also expect dramatic slowdown in other units as a fallout. The bank doesn't care, they want their interest payment now. This is an immediate problem that could threaten dealers' liquidity. The customers can simply drive those cars with knowledge that, while perfectly functional and legal (the government does not prohibit them from using the vehicles, nobody tells them to park the car), they are not worth as much today as they were a week ago and may also require some action before next emission certification. Completely different issue.

Let's not demagogue the issues or overdramatize it. While serious long term, we are not talking immediate danger, exclusion, or cash losses.

BTW, in comparison to GM, my stance is that VW's behavior seems clearly more criminal in terms of the intent and scope (number of cars affected), the customers' situation and damage is not as dire that those who could have suffered death or injury due to the malfunction. GM's damnation came from stonewalling (and series of other steps, like possible coverup when the new part was issued with same part code, which is clearly against the rules of conduct), what was an early mistake in a process. VW set to have an illegal intent from the conception. From the point of view of prosecution, I'd take VW's case over GM (clear intent and admission after the fact).

From point of view of human suffering, it's probably GM's - the injury was greater to fewer people and immediate and can be given a face, VW's injury can only be assessed statistically, but it does have more people affected by much smaller way. 40 times the limit is terrible, but I would like to see limits for those school buses and dump trucks spewing clouds of black smoke I have not seen such clouds behind those new TDI's. Also, specifically to the US, half million vehicles sold is really small vs. the entire population.

I don't think any of our buses spews any black smoke. The only time you get any real nasty emissions is in winter when they mix kerosene with the diesel to prevent the fuel from gelling. Not sure they even do that for the new ones.

abacomike

@verdugo:

I guess.  I wonder if most people are aware of the fact that Citgo is owned by a communist/socialist country in South America.  And Citgo gas is not a top tier gasoline.

oldfarmer50

fezo said:

Certain things are happening fast. Their CEO who swore to stay on has been booted. I think this going to get bigger relatively quickly.

driver - yes, many companies get their gasoline from a common refinery, but those additives are what differentiates one gasoline from another. The best being top tier. If you're only using Exxon or Mobil you're in fine shape. That's what they are. Shell, BP, 76 are in the same boat along with several others. If while travelling down you hit a Connoco station you're good to go. In Florida Chevron and Texaco.

As for what I wouldn't but I wouldn't but Citgo unless I was desperate but that's because I think it's bear pee. Same for Gulf. If I want to boycott based on clear and present danger I's skip Lukoil (which I think is only in a piece of the Northeast) and Getty as they are owned by the Russians who are far more serious threat to us than Venezuela. If I could find a company that sold gas that didn't originate in Saudi Arabia sign me up. No need to finance terrorism if I can avoid it. I realize that that particular barrel of oil is going to be bought somewhere and I'm essentially I'm tilting at windmills but so is anyone taking a moral stand on gasoline. Buying only top tier is another story. I know some people don't believe that but I find it makes a difference and besides, it's cheap.

I know this sounds crazy but I find a noticeable increase in power when I use the cheap no-name brand which happens to be the cheapest as well. Maybe they're deposing of some toxic waste in their tanks but it makes my cars go-go.

imidazol97

sandman_6472 said:

Hit 10k on Monday and having a few teething problems so far, am very happy so far

I recall you had a few visits back at the dealer to some things fixed.

snakeweasel

henryn said:

I agree, memory these days seems to be a very short term thing. I believe if VW can survive the short term direct consequences, they will recover, and in fairly short order (2 to 4 years?).

It is he who gets stung remembers the bee the longest.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

My Dad would only buy Shell. Then we found out, in Canada at least, almost all gas came from the same refinery and was delivered by the same trucks. Each company adds their own extras later.

I once met a VP for Standard Oil many decades ago tell me it doesn't matter who you buy your gas from, it all comes out of the same spigot at the refinery.

abacomike

snakeweasel said:

I agree, memory these days seems to be a very short term thing. I believe if VW can survive the short term direct consequences, they will recover, and in fairly short order (2 to 4 years?).

It is he who gets stung remembers the bee the longest.

Exactly.  Those who will be directly affected (owners of VW/Audi Diesels) will probably never forget this.  I still haven't forgotten my Cadillac 4-6-8 Sedan DeVille.  It spent 3 out of 8 months that I owned it at the dealership in their service department. I was given an Oldsmobile 88 as a rented loaner from Cadillac.  Nope, will never forget that fiasco. 

Cadillac refused to buy the car back - just wanted to replace the piece of junk.  I lost $5000 on that mess.  I had to trade it for a Toronado.  How do you ever forget something like that?

explorerx4

@oldfarmer, I've been running Premium Grade in my Escape and Fusion because they really seem to run better using it. I don't drive enough that pinching pennies on gas will make a difference in my budget.
My wife uses regular grade in her Escape and I'll never convince her to change. These are all ecoboost engines.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

If regulators force me to be cheated in HP and MPG then I should be compensated as well (by VW, gov't, EPA, and whoever else is responsible).

Why should anyone else but VW compensate you?

andres3 said:

Competition is good for consumers, right, we should all want VW to survive? At least that's one of the arguments I heard back in 2008 & 2009.

Yes that was the argument made back during the bailout, but truth be told GM and Chrysler were going to remain even without a bailout. If VW wants to stay in business they will, how they come out of this is the question.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

If the EPA's goal is to get polluter's off the street, then a forced full price buy-back (maybe a small deduct for mileage) is all that is feasible. Can VW simply turn around and resell them in Mexico or China where Eco-Weenies aren't as strict?

If they are as bad as people say the EPA may have them destroyed so reselling them in 3rd world countries may not happen.

abacomike

After reading Sandman's comment about it being a holiday today, I obviously picked the wrong day to snoop around at VW/Audi dealerships.  I forgot it was the Jewish High Holy Day (Yom Kippur) today. Not everyone down here is Jewish, contrary to widely held beliefs, but it is more heavily populated, percentage wise, than most other regions.  So there would be an impact on showroom visitors, especially locally.  I'm glad he said something - my unscientific explorations today are even more questionable due to the holiday.  My apologies.

tjc78

Hi All,

Looks like most of the gang is still here.... new thread, same chatter! I've been gone forever, but wanted to give a quick post!

After my son was born, I lost track in almost all my forums, and now I'm catching up. My wife is due any day with our second! A daughter this time. We are really blessed!

On the car front, my Lacrosse went back and I picked up a 2015 Enclave (need the room!). I've still got my Florida special 04 MGM (fresh from the body shop, after a knucklehead rear-ended me on the Atlantic City Expressway)

Anyway, gonna try and stick around. Lots of conversations to get in on!

abacomike

tjc78 said:

Hi All, Looks like most of the gang is still here.... new thread, same chatter! I've been gone forever, but wanted to give a quick post! After my son was born, I lost track in almost all my forums, and now I'm catching up. My wife is due any day with our second! A daughter this time. We are really blessed! On the car front, my Lacrosse went back and I picked up a 2015 Enclave (need the room!). I've still got my Florida special 04 MGM (fresh from the body shop, after a knucklehead rear-ended me on the Atlantic City Expressway) Anyway, gonna try and stick around. Lots of conversations to get in on!

Great to hear from you.  God's blessings are prayed for for your new child.  Great to have you back.

verdugo

abacomike said:

@verdugo:

I guess.  I wonder if most people are aware of the fact that Citgo is owned by a communist/socialist country in South America.  And Citgo gas is not a top tier gasoline.

I doubt it, but I made it a habit of telling everybody I knew about it back in Connecticut. There's no Citgo here in California.

abacomike

snakeweasel said:

My Dad would only buy Shell. Then we found out, in Canada at least, almost all gas came from the same refinery and was delivered by the same trucks. Each company adds their own extras later.

I once met a VP for Standard Oil many decades ago tell me it doesn't matter who you buy your gas from, it all comes out of the same spigot at the refinery.

However, it's the additives that make the gasoline sold "at the pump" very different.  In today's gasoline powered direct injection engines, top tier gasoline is all that should be used or suffer the consequences a few years down the road when your engine loses power and it's because of clogged fuel injectors or sticky valves.  

In my car, it's not just premium that is required - it's 93 octane top tier gasoline that is required.  I was warned by my mechanic that I should not use gasoline without a top tier rating (specific additives that are approved by the major manufacturers like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Maserati, etc.) for their direct injection engines.

stever

Sure, you buy a premium car, you'd expect to pay top dollar for a premium style of gas.

I think it's mostly marketing myself. Maybe I can interest you in a jug of dexos II and a quart of Honda oil too?

abacomike

I'm not sure if it's because of the twin turbo chargers or if it is just the direct injection engine.  I'll have to ask him when I go up to the dealership next time.  I haven't been up there in weeks because of all the rain we've been getting.  Makes no sense to wash a car in the morning and then drive home in the torrents of rain an hour later.

I made plans to take the E 400 up to my brother's house the week of October 5th (610 miles round trip) so we can celebrate our birthday together on October 10th.  It's the first road trip I've taken it on since buying the car in December.  I just turned 7,000 miles and it still rides and handles as good as the day I took delivery.  I expect to drive this one for quite awhile - almost 10 months old already.

stever

Most of my cars didn't even start breaking in good until they hit 10,000 miles. You may actually have to have an oil change in a couple of months. However, with the premium fluids required, I'm sure your motor oil is some super duper synthetic that's good for 20,000 miles or three years, whichever comes first.

Seriously, what do the MB dealers recommend in Denver where it's uncommon to find anything higher than 91 octane?

abacomike

stever said:

Most of my cars didn't even start breaking in good until they hit 10,000 miles. You may actually have to have an oil change in a couple of months. However, with the premium fluids required, I'm sure your motor oil is some super duper synthetic that's good for 20,000 miles or three years, whichever comes first. Seriously, what do the MB dealers recommend in Denver where it's uncommon to find anything higher than 91 octane?

Prayer!   

All kidding aside, I really do not know the answer to that question, but I am sure it has to be top tier rated.

Yes, I am due for the first "A" service around December 1st.  It's due when the car hits 10,000 miles or one year.  There's a program that tells you how long to the services - sometimes it shows number of days to the A or B service or it shows miles to next service depending on the sensors in the engine.  It usually runs about $369 but my dealer included the first service at no charge.  Mercedes uses a special Mobil 1 synthetic not available at most retail outlets - only at the dealer's parts department.  

graphicguy

VW....their CEO has resigned. Their stock is tanking. And that's before we even hear about the total extent of their deception. Ominous for the company, the dealers, owners, etc. This could hurt Audi and Porsche, too...at least their reputations, being owned by VW.

This is a long term downward spiral for a company who not so long ago declared they would be the largest car company in the world.

abacomike

graphicguy said:

VW....their CEO has resigned. Their stock is tanking. And that's before we even hear about the total extent of their deception. Ominous for the company, the dealers, owners, etc. This could hurt Audi and Porsche, too...at least their reputations, being owned by VW. This is a long term downward spiral for a company who not so long ago declared they would be the largest car company in the world.

I was just listening to Bloomberg (online panel discussion) and along with a 1/3 drop in its common stock in the past few days, VW's reputation throughout its lines of automobiles (VW, Audi, Porsche, etc.) will be negatively affected in the short run.  It's going to take a major strategic set of actions on VW's part in order to regain its standing and trust.

As I see it, GM has succeeded in putting a lot of the negativism it experienced in the past several years behind them.  Toyota has succeeded as well.  I see no reason, assuming implementation of a great public relations strategy, that VW cannot repeat GM's and Toyota's successes.

stickguy

Welcome back Tom. I was wondering whatever happened to you (usually when I was driving down Evesham to Deptford!)

tjc78

Thanks Mike and Stickguy,

Deptford may be the only place I attempt to travel this weekend! Otherwise I don't think I'll be even wanting to leave the house! It looks like with the Popes visit to Philly our area in South Jersey is going to be quite congested.

oldfarmer50

stever said:

Most of my cars didn't even start breaking in good until they hit 10,000 miles. You may actually have to have an oil change in a couple of months. However, with the premium fluids required, I'm sure your motor oil is some super duper synthetic that's good for 20,000 miles or three years, whichever comes first.

Seriously, what do the MB dealers recommend in Denver where it's uncommon to find anything higher than 91 octane?

Funny you mention that. It think it's taken about a thousand miles for the Mustang's tires to wear in because they corner better now than when new. The car itself has a bit more pep too.

I would think that at 5000 feet 91 would have the same anti knock characteristics as 93.

In other news.

BMW is now under the gun for their diesels exceeding pollution limits. Particularly the M3.

VW is recalling all CA diesels for "emission adjustments". Wonder what will happen to those who choose not to willingly go. I drove my Chrysler for years with an unresolved recall. (Not emissions related)

abacomike

@oldfarmer50:

Your comment about BMW being under the gun for their Diesel engines exceeding EPA pollution limits coupled with VW/Audi may just be the tip of the iceberg regarding a major deception by automobile manufacturers and Diesel engines.  I wonder if it is only diesels - if they can do it with diesels, why not gasoline powered engines.

It's easy for the EPA to issue maximum allowable pollutants from diesel and gasoline powered vehicles, but are the limits actually attainable?  I sure hope this is not the beginning of a major scandal about manufacturers misrepresenting actual pollutants from combustion of all vehicles.

I doubt that is the case - the EPA would have caught the fraud long ago - yet Hyuandai misrepresented mpg's for many of it's vehicles.  Who know what a vehicle manufacturing corporation might do to meet federal standards.

abacomike

tjc78 said:

Thanks Mike and Stickguy, Deptford may be the only place I attempt to travel this weekend! Otherwise I don't think I'll be even wanting to leave the house! It looks like with the Popes visit to Philly our area in South Jersey is going to be quite congested.

I think it's a delight to have the Pope visiting our country.  His visit brings into focus the fact that religion, morals and ethics are still alive and well in our society. I am not Catholic, but I still admire the kindness and love he exudes for the human condition.

abacomike

More heavy rains expected here today and right through the weekend.  We've had more rain in the past few weeks than we've had all summer. I would think our drought is over with considering the quantity of rain we've had.

Everything relates to the average depth of Lake Okeechobee as we enter our dry season in December-May.  Lake Okeechobee provides the water that keeps the Everglades healthy throughout the year.  

I I may not be able to wash my car for a few more weeks after listening to the extended forecast for rain the next several weeks.

robr2

abacomike said:

I just turned 7,000 miles and it still rides and handles as good as the day I took delivery.

At 7,000 miles, a modern car better ride and handle as the day it was new. I'd be awfully disappointed if it didn't.

robr2

stever said:

Seriously, what do the MB dealers recommend in Denver where it's uncommon to find anything higher than 91 octane?

The 91 octane is acceptable at high elevations. Due to the lower atmospheric pressure, the compression is lower so 93 octane is not required.

PF_Flyer

stever said:

Sure, you buy a premium car, you'd expect to pay top dollar for a premium style of gas.

I think it's mostly marketing myself. Maybe I can interest you in a jug of dexos II and a quart of Honda oil too?

I get a chuckle every time I'm at my buddy's shop and some Lexus owner comes in with a burned out headlight and I hear the price they're going to pay for luxury

[Deleted User]

The public backlash against VW has been suprisningly widespread and angry. Even friends of mine who could care less about auto matters are aware and interested in the developments. Now is a great time for a company to import a compact or midsize wagon to supplant the Golf Wagon, particularly if a manual transmission option is available (cough...Subaru...cough).

The upcoming Honda Si and Type R, and the Subaru WRX and STI would be the natural competitors to the VW GTI and R, but they need to be in the form of a hatchback and not the sedans currently available. The other VW models, including the Passat, Jetta, and SUVs already have strong competitors available.

VWs image is certainly going to be tarnished for some time to come and there will be consumers who will avoid the brand regardless of the steps VW takes to rectify the problem. I think more serious is the fact VW's quality reputation is nothing short of catastrophically bad, and now combined with the EPA cheating anger, the company is going to suffer.

I believe they can pull out of this and recover over an extended time, but they're going to have to attack their image problem with an effort equalling Hyundai's over the last couple of decades.

Could be a good time to invest in VW stock for the fearless. I'll wait until they clear house of all the people involved in the deception, the EPA action announced, and the global governments weigh in, and then will likely pick up some VW ownership.

cdnpinhead

oldfarmer50 said:

I would think that at 5000 feet 91 would have the same anti knock characteristics as 93.

True, unless it's a turbocharged engine -- those compensate for the higher elevation & still require premium, assuming that's what they require at sea level.

You can run regular (even down to 85 octane) above 6000 feet all day long in a naturally-aspirated engine that wants premium on a standard day (sea level, 59 deg F).

dino001

We have more and more turbocharged engines, some manufacturers went exclusive (BMW), some went quite aggressive (Ford, Benz, etc.). The infrastructure doesn't follow. I wonder how are those turbo premium gas BMWs performing at higher altitudes with lesser grade.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

In other news.

BMW is now under the gun for their diesels exceeding pollution limits. Particularly the M3.

Interesting; especially since BMW has never built a diesel M3- or any diesel M car, for that matter...

dino001

tyguy said:

Could be a good time to invest in VW stock for the fearless. I'll wait until they clear house of all the people involved in the deception, the EPA action announced, and the global governments weigh in, and then will likely pick up some VW ownership.

Not just yet. I think it may take another 50% cut before the stock gets interesting. Those kind of news have a repeating effects on stocks. The same news hits them over and over, as each iteration brings something new to light and increases prospects of financial hit. It's only when people get overly pessimistic and all damage is "baked in", then it may be time to buy.

abacomike

Mercedes is upping the horsepower on its 3.0 L V6 twin turbo from 329 (454 torque) to 355 for the 2016 C400 and the 2017 E400.  Amazing horsepower for a small V6.

dino001

abacomike said:

@oldfarmer50:

Your comment about BMW being under the gun for their Diesel engines exceeding EPA pollution limits coupled with VW/Audi may just be the tip of the iceberg regarding a major deception by automobile manufacturers and Diesel engines.  I wonder if it is only diesels - if they can do it with diesels, why not gasoline powered engines.

It's easy for the EPA to issue maximum allowable pollutants from diesel and gasoline powered vehicles, but are the limits actually attainable?  I sure hope this is not the beginning of a major scandal about manufacturers misrepresenting actual pollutants from combustion of all vehicles.

I doubt that is the case - the EPA would have caught the fraud long ago - yet Hyuandai misrepresented mpg's for many of it's vehicles.  Who know what a vehicle manufacturing corporation might do to meet federal standards.

I think there is a long "tradition" of cat and mouse games between the regulators and manufacturers. The issue is more in scale and depth of the cheating.

The bigger question is the European policies promoting diesel as a "planet savior" are now in question. They focused on CO2 so much that anything else was cast aside. They were just about to bring their new diesel standard to catch up with EPA and everybody over there was up in arms about it. I'm waiting for news that European officials knew about some of that stuff and kept quiet, because it didn't fit their political agenda of "saving climate by giving us cancer".

I'm surprised to say it, but it seems there was a benefit from this aggressive EPA agenda. They never bought into diesel being a planet savior, kept eye on important stuff (NOx) even though it would have been so much easier focus on CO2, such a favorite of the politicians. I think it saved us from getting those diesels in American in places they clearly don't belong. The fact that some tried to cheat the system is sad, but at least the scope is relatively small and it is still better than us waking up with diesel engines everywhere and no idea how clean or dirty they really are, like in Europe.

Michaell

cdnpinhead said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I would think that at 5000 feet 91 would have the same anti knock characteristics as 93.

True, unless it's a turbocharged engine -- those compensate for the higher elevation & still require premium, assuming that's what they require at sea level.

You can run regular (even down to 85 octane) above 6000 feet all day long in a naturally-aspirated engine that wants premium on a standard day (sea level, 59 deg F).

Living in CO (~5500 feet), the octane ratings at the local gas stations were odd to me when I first moved here - 85, 87 and 91.

Have had two turbocharged engines in the family (MINI Countryman and Mazda CX-7) and we put premium in both. In fact, while we had the Mazda, I tried to use Shell V-Power exclusively.

[Deleted User]

dino001 said:

I'm surprised to say it, but it seems there was a benefit from this aggressive EPA agenda.

It seems that on any forum discussing the VW issue you'll find VW loyalists attacking the EPA over the situation. I'll avoid a lengthy post and simply state I hold VW 100% accountable for intentionally violating the letter and intent of the law. That said, I do occasionally find myself angered with EPA over reach, such as their aggression against a Wyoming property owner for installing a pond authorized by the state and found to be beneficial to the environment. The EPA does have far reaching power with little over site.

However, their impact on air quality and surface water quality is undeniable and I'm grateful. As a water quality guy I can attest almost all of us in the United States, as well as other countries who adopt EPA guidelines, benefit from those standards.

isellhondas

I have the feeling that VW isn't going to be hurt long term over this. Americans have short memories.

Fiat brough junk to the U.S and left leaving people in the lurch as their dealerships closed. Years later, they returned once again offering "cute" cars that are at the bottom of the relialbility ratings. People still buy them!

And, this weakling car company owns Chrysler!

Maybe the smart money is on VW stock? It won't be my money!

dino001

tyguy said:

dino001 said:

I'm surprised to say it, but it seems there was a benefit from this aggressive EPA agenda.

It seems that on any forum discussing the VW issue you'll find VW loyalists attacking the EPA over the situation. I'll avoid a lengthy post and simply state I hold VW 100% accountable for intentionally violating the letter and intent of the law. That said, I do occasionally find myself angered with EPA over reach, such as their aggression against a Wyoming property owner for installing a pond authorized by the state and found to be beneficial to the environment. The EPA does have far reaching power with little over site.

However, their impact on air quality and surface water quality is undeniable and I'm grateful. As a water quality guy I can attest almost all of us in the United States, as well as other countries who adopt EPA guidelines, benefit from those standards.

When I first moved to the US, I was incredibly impressed by lawful nature of this nation vs. what I was used to see back in my old country. It was actually less regulation, but much stronger and even enforcement of those existing. What I mean by that is that when regulations are passed, there is a lot of discussion, push-pull, drama during the process, but once it's passed it is obeyed and enforced. Things get overturned, but also in a lawful process. The first thing i saw were clearly marked handicapped access points in all public buildings and facilities - what a concept it was to me. In my old country people have been talking about it for twenty-thirty years, yet new facilities still are getting built and approved with some most idiotic designs that push those with disabilities away. I'm talking large projects, sweeping redesigns, intermodal transportation hubs (train-to-bus/tram) without proper wheelchair paths and officials acting like this is absolutely insurmountable. Environmental and health regulations are similar. Lots of discussion, posturing, but once a standard is passed and phase-in/phase-out period lapses, all is done. My country - the enforcement is very selective, if you know the right people, you can pollute and sleep well. Pretty much everything works like that - strong, if not repressive regulations on the books, selective enforcement aimed at building statistics rather than solving actual problems.

The news of overreach is fairly recent phenomenon, although all agencies have practiced mission creep forever. All administrations are guilty of that, the areas change - one time it's the privacy and personal right that's under assault, another it's the business. But it's still better than almost anywhere else.

stever

Re octane, I think you can buy octane boosters so you could in theory get your rating up to 93 in Denver with a can from AutoZone.

Perhaps the Mercerdes dealer would sell you a gold plated can of the stuff, lol.

dino001

stever said:

Re octane, I think you can buy octane boosters so you could in theory get your rating up to 93 in Denver with a can from AutoZone.

Perhaps the Mercerdes dealer would sell you a gold plated can of the stuff, lol.

Touched by Deter Zetche himself. That must be worth at least 500% premium.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

In other news.

BMW is now under the gun for their diesels exceeding pollution limits. Particularly the M3.

Interesting; especially since BMW has never built a diesel M3- or any diesel M car, for that matter...

Maybe it was an X3. It was 4:45am and I hadn't had my coffee yet.

abacomike

Just got back from doing some errands and stopped in at Costco for some gasoline. $2.49 a gallon for PUG. That's a full 30 cents per gallon cheaper than any of the other top tier gasoline stations within a 5 square mile area. I am trying to think if earlier this year it got down even further. But I remember back a few years when premium gas was selling at $4.20 a gallon and thinking to myself we'll never again see gasoline selling at prices we paid back in the 1990's. Well, who would have thought? From what I understand, prices will continue to fall, but not as rapidly as they have in the past month due to a switch to winter blends which are less expensive to refine than summer blends.

The Iranians will be at full production of their oil very quickly which will drop the price even further as their production will only increase the oil glut - but the Iranians need the cash so they will produce as much as they can. That means further reductions in the price of oil. How long can this continue? I guess as long as the World's economy continues to stagnate or even contract. Should be an interesting ride the next 6-12 months.

abacomike

stever said:

Re octane, I think you can buy octane boosters so you could in theory get your rating up to 93 in Denver with a can from AutoZone.

Perhaps the Mercerdes dealer would sell you a gold plated can of the stuff, lol.

Driver and I are not the least bit offended by your misspelling of our most honored and revered brand, "Mercedes"!

Driver and I prefer "Mercedes-Benz", but you can spell it any way you want. And, by the way, Mercedes-Benz doesn't sell anything gold plated - they sell only .999 fine gold.

"What's in your safe?"

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

In other news.

BMW is now under the gun for their diesels exceeding pollution limits. Particularly the M3.

Interesting; especially since BMW has never built a diesel M3- or any diesel M car, for that matter...

Maybe it was an X3. It was 4:45am and I hadn't had my coffee yet.

You are forgiven!