Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Salesguy called and they got the MKC.
Wife looked at it, liked it and it's a sale!
Picking it up on Monday.
It does have the anti pothole technology.
Traded in the Fusion, so I'll be driving her 2013 Escape for a bit.
Mostly it's going to sit.

explorerx4 said:

Salesguy called and they got the MKC.
Wife looked at it, liked it and it's a sale!
Picking it up on Monday.
It does have the anti pothole technology.
Traded in the Fusion, so I'll be driving her 2013 Escape for a bit.
Mostly it's going to sit.

Congrats!

What's anti pothole technology. On my Lincoln it's limited to someone who asks "do you have to hit every pothole"?

explorerx4

@driver100,
The anti pothole technology, basically hold up the wheel that would drop into the pothole.
I posted a link to it yesterday in Mid Size Sedans.

explorerx4

Try this link
http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/18/autos/ford-fusion-pothole-protection/index.html

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, I saw that, thanks. I'm just curious what happens if one entire axle is, for a short time, not actually connected to the road. I guess maybe a little wiggle...I dunno. I'd like to try it out though. You'll have to report in on that!

explorerx4

@Mr_Shiftright,
This will be my wife's ride, so I'll only drive it if it needs service or if there is a problem.

carnaught

Explorer, congrats on the MKC. Looks like a really nice vehicle.

stickguy

my guess on the pothole tech is that only one wheel on an axle would happen at a time.

Congrats on the MKC though. sounds like a nice set of wheels.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

Try this link
http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/18/autos/ford-fusion-pothole-protection/index.html

What if the right and left wheel hit a pothole at the same time.....do you fly over it?

Actually, that is brilliant....I wouldn't have imagined they could make a feature like that. I am waiting for the bird crap avoidance system.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

Salesguy called and they got the MKC.
Wife looked at it, liked it and it's a sale!
Picking it up on Monday.
It does have the anti pothole technology.
Traded in the Fusion, so I'll be driving her 2013 Escape for a bit.
Mostly it's going to sit.

Congrats!

roadburner

I've now had the 2er for going on three weeks, and I continue to be extremely impressed; I especially like being able to choose between a relatively soft GT and a hard edged back road bomber by just pushing a button. Most of the connectivity features are pretty simple to master, and I really like the ability to store CDs on the internal hard drive.

I definitely have to install a locking diff sooner than later; in Sport+ mode it lights up the tires in 2nd and 3rd at 3/4 throttle. I'm going to have to check, but I think someone stuck a "Race me!" sticker on the rear bumper. One older guy in a new Taurus(NOT an SHO but equipped with a bright yellow UAW sticker) tried his luck at a stop light Grand Prix. I paced him and let him pull ahead by a fender at 60- then I nailed it and left him for dead. Did the same thing to a slammed and f*rt canned 2K vintage Acura Integra. Too much fun.

My son came home from SC for the weekend and I took him for a short drive. When we got back home he asked my wife if she was ready to pay for "all the tickets Dad is going to get."

oldfarmer50

stever said:

berri said:

Do car salespeople really think riding with you on a test drive helps sell the car?

The Toyota saleswoman asked if we wanted her to tag along. I said sure - kind of wanted to see how the Prius performance was with a third person in the car. She was quiet on the ride. I dunno, I've liked most of the salespeople I've met and I enjoy quizzing them about "bizness". Seems pretty rare that they interfere with my test drive.

The other benefit of having them along is that I don't have to worry about getting lost.

On two out of three new car test drives the salesperson came along. On the one where my wife drove he didn't. Maybe I don't look trustworthy or maybe it was because I was test driving more sporty cars.

driver100

Good parking job!



Might as well park there, less chance of it getting hit by a cart than if it was in a parking space.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

stever said:

berri said:

Do car salespeople really think riding with you on a test drive helps sell the car?

The Toyota saleswoman asked if we wanted her to tag along. I said sure - kind of wanted to see how the Prius performance was with a third person in the car. She was quiet on the ride. I dunno, I've liked most of the salespeople I've met and I enjoy quizzing them about "bizness". Seems pretty rare that they interfere with my test drive.

The other benefit of having them along is that I don't have to worry about getting lost.

On two out of three new car test drives the salesperson came along. On the one where my wife drove he didn't. Maybe I don't look trustworthy or maybe it was because I was test driving more sporty cars.

Less chance of a woman making off with a car than a man.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yeah, I saw that, thanks. I'm just curious what happens if one entire axle is, for a short time, not actually connected to the road. I guess maybe a little wiggle...I dunno. I'd like to try it out though. You'll have to report in on that!

That's when the anti-gravity option kicks in.

graphicguy

Explorer...congratz. Cool ride. We're going to need pictures, though.

imidazol97

explorerx4 said:

Salesguy called and they got the MKC.
Wife looked at it, liked it and it's a sale!
Picking it up on Monday.
It does have the anti pothole technology.
Traded in the Fusion, so I'll be driving her 2013 Escape for a bit.
Mostly it's going to sit.

Congratulations. It's nice that the dealer would get the car in even without
a commitment to buy. That's doing a service for the customer, who might
not buy in the end.

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

Good parking job!



Might as well park there, less chance of it getting hit by a cart than if it was in a parking space.

Yeah but what if some soccer mom puts her kids in the front seat and pushes them around the store?

ab348

@explorerx4 Congrats on the MKC. I like them despite McConaghey's ads. Did you drive the 2.0T version and the 2.3T version back to back? I would be interested in the differences between them.

I looked at local dealer inventory here and all they have are black interiors, so your wife would be happy here. Outside all were either white or black with just one in another color, called "Luxe". Sad how dealers here do not want anything with color on their lots.

roadburner

I don't think that I've mentioned this specifically, but there was a HUGE difference between the way we were treated by that sketchy Ford dealer in Indianapolis and the treatment we received at BMW of Cincinnati North.
At the Ford dealer we had made an appointment with the "Internet Sales"person, but when we arrived we were told that she was busy and we were shunted off to a regular salesperson. And as I've mentioned previously, then the games really began.

I had made an appointment with the Internet Sales Manager at the BMW dealer as well- but when we arrived the car was sitting in front of the showroom; we were greeted by a young salesperson and before I finished giving him my name he said, "We've been expecting you! Let me tell him you are here." The ISM copied my license and gave me the keys, saying he didn't need to ride along because he knew I was familiar with the car. When we got back the USM appraised the trade- hitting qbrozen's number on the nose. The ISM wrote up an offer, I countered at $500 less. The deal was accepted and that was that. I think the whole process took less than 45 minutes.

Needless to say, I gave the ISM and the dealership the highest possible survey scores and also gave them positive reviews on Yelp, Dealer Rater, Edmunds, and Google. I'm also sending a snail mail letter to the CEO/President of BMW North America commending the dealership.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stever said:

berri said:

Do car salespeople really think riding with you on a test drive helps sell the car?

The Toyota saleswoman asked if we wanted her to tag along. I said sure - kind of wanted to see how the Prius performance was with a third person in the car. She was quiet on the ride. I dunno, I've liked most of the salespeople I've met and I enjoy quizzing them about "bizness". Seems pretty rare that they interfere with my test drive.

The other benefit of having them along is that I don't have to worry about getting lost.

On two out of three new car test drives the salesperson came along. On the one where my wife drove he didn't. Maybe I don't look trustworthy or maybe it was because I was test driving more sporty cars.

Less chance of a woman making off with a car than a man.

Not likely since they had my car and driver's license. More likely they worry that a male driver would be more likely to beat the heck out of the car.

jpp75

explorerx4 said:

Salesguy called and they got the MKC.
Wife looked at it, liked it and it's a sale!
Picking it up on Monday.
It does have the anti pothole technology.
Traded in the Fusion, so I'll be driving her 2013 Escape for a bit.
Mostly it's going to sit.

Congrats Explorer! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the MKC.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

I don't think that I've mentioned this specifically, but there was a HUGE difference between the way we were treated by that sketchy Ford dealer in Indianapolis and the treatment we received at BMW of Cincinnati North.
At the Ford dealer we had made an appointment with the "Internet Sales"person, but when we arrived we were told that she was busy and we were shunted off to a regular salesperson. And as I've mentioned previously, then the games really began.

I had made an appointment with the Internet Sales Manager at the BMW dealer as well- but when we arrived the car was sitting in front of the showroom; we were greeted by a young salesperson and before I finished giving him my name he said, "We've been expecting you! Let me tell him you are here." The ISM copied my license and gave me the keys, saying he didn't need to ride along because he knew I was familiar with the car. When we got back the USM appraised the trade- hitting qbrozen's number on the nose. The ISM wrote up an offer, I countered at $500 less. The deal was accepted and that was that. I think the whole process took less than 45 minutes.

Needless to say, I gave the ISM and the dealership the highest possible survey scores and also gave them positive reviews on Yelp, Dealer Rater, Edmunds, and Google. I'm also sending a snail mail letter to the CEO/President of BMW North America commending the dealership.

I love doing business with those guys. They just opened their remodelled showroom, too! Pretty nice!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stever said:

berri said:

Do car salespeople really think riding with you on a test drive helps sell the car?

The Toyota saleswoman asked if we wanted her to tag along. I said sure - kind of wanted to see how the Prius performance was with a third person in the car. She was quiet on the ride. I dunno, I've liked most of the salespeople I've met and I enjoy quizzing them about "bizness". Seems pretty rare that they interfere with my test drive.

The other benefit of having them along is that I don't have to worry about getting lost.

On two out of three new car test drives the salesperson came along. On the one where my wife drove he didn't. Maybe I don't look trustworthy or maybe it was because I was test driving more sporty cars.

Less chance of a woman making off with a car than a man.

Not likely since they had my car and driver's license. More likely they worry that a male driver would be more likely to beat the heck out of the car.

At some dealerships the salesman actually says for insurance reasons I have to go with you....but, I don't believe that completely, because some dealers don't require the salesperson to go with.

I have a feeling salespeople are told, it the customer doesn't seem to be 100% then give them the insurance story, otherwise it is your responsibility etc..........

Our last car...the E400, the salesman asked if he could come with....I usually prefer that they don't and I think the dealer has a better chance of selling me a car if they don't come with - allows me to discuss with my wife during the drive - but, in this case, the car had so many features it was nice to get an idea of what they were and how they operate.

stever

The recent Prius test drive was the first time any dealer has asked to copy my driver's license in a long time. C'mon down....

Keep telling the Kia guy here to give me some numbers and we can do a deal but they are clueless.

Plan B is to revisit the Encore early next week. At the dealer with the idiotic mop & glow addition.

carnaught

stever said:

The recent Prius test drive was the first time any dealer has asked to copy my driver's license in a long time. C'mon down....

Keep telling the Kia guy here to give me some numbers and we can do a deal but they are clueless.

Plan B is to revisit the Encore early next week. At the dealer with the idiotic mop & glow addition.

Simple, you either tell them the mop & glow goes or you take your best price in your head, and discount it by the mop and glow price before you make the offer.

explorerx4

Thanks everyone for the kind words about the MKC.
I probably won't get to drive it much, just when it needs service or we go on a road trip.
Will post some pictures when we get it. Delivery day is Monday.

nyccarguy

Good luck & Mazel Tov on the MKC!  Please post delivery day pics!

stever

Making a little progress locally. $30,200 OTD offer. My number is $26,706. (3% tax on cars here).

Here's the car. They'll swap the tires out for 17"s for me.

Same car in Ft. Worth is $25,570 plus tax.

No mop and glow but there's a Desert Protection Package for $1,495. Hey, if it keeps the rattlesnakes away and the kangaroo mice from nesting in the engine, maybe it'd be worth it.

Mr_Shiftright

Iguana see that Desert Package. What's on the list?

driver100

stever said:

Making a little progress locally. $30,200 OTD offer. My number is $26,706. (3% tax on cars here).

Here's the car. They'll swap the tires out for 17"s for me.

Same car in Ft. Worth is $25,570 plus tax.

No mop and glow but there's a Desert Protection Package for $1,495. Hey, if it keeps the rattlesnakes away and the kangaroo mice from nesting in the engine, maybe it'd be worth it.

What does the : $1495.00 Jack Key Desert Protection Package include, really. I bet tinted windows, and one of those cardboard things you put in your windshield. Do you figure one dealer is selling for $25570 all in (tax the same) and your guy is at $26706?. Is the difference the rattlesnake protection? if so, and you don't want to pay his price tell him to match the other one or you will think about it....don't cut him off yet, sounds like you want to buy from this dealer...probably local.

houdini1

nyccarguy said:

Good luck & Mazel Tov on the MKC!  Please post delivery day pics!

X 2.

houdini1

stever said:

Making a little progress locally. $30,200 OTD offer. My number is $26,706. (3% tax on cars here).

Here's the car. They'll swap the tires out for 17"s for me.

Same car in Ft. Worth is $25,570 plus tax.

No mop and glow but there's a Desert Protection Package for $1,495. Hey, if it keeps the rattlesnakes away and the kangaroo mice from nesting in the engine, maybe it'd be worth it.

I like the color.

stever

The Ft. Worth dealer's fine print is confusing - at the top it says "transparent pricing" and one of the footnotes says you have to qualify for all incentives. So there's at least $800 I don't qualify for. So it's not a real number.

The Desert Protection is probably just mop & glow, not even a heavy duty battery I bet. Junk fee. They probably put extra swirls in the paint for you at no extra charge.

Not cutting him off but not encouraged either. And yeah would like to buy local for the lemon law protection that I'd lose buying out of state, but if that's what it boils down to, so be it. Would probably go to Colorado or Arizona instead of Texas though, unless El Paso comes through. They weren't aggressive when we visited them a few months back.

My price is TMV which is close to invoice with the current $750 incentive. That number is $25,928.

oldfarmer50

stever said:

Making a little progress locally. $30,200 OTD offer. My number is $26,706. (3% tax on cars here).

Here's the car. They'll swap the tires out for 17"s for me.

Same car in Ft. Worth is $25,570 plus tax.

No mop and glow but there's a Desert Protection Package for $1,495. Hey, if it keeps the rattlesnakes away and the kangaroo mice from nesting in the engine, maybe it'd be worth it.

Not clear, you say the dealer will swap out tires for 17s but the ads says the car comes with 17s. What's being swapped.?

stickguy

that top model comes with 18s I think. Lower level models have 17s.

bwia

explorerx4 said:

Thanks everyone for the kind words about the MKC. I probably won't get to drive it much, just when it needs service or we go on a road trip. Will post some pictures when we get it. Delivery day is Monday.

Congrats on the purchase of the MKC. It’s a nice looking vehicle but I've never seen one on the road -- pretty exclusive around here I'd say.

stever

oldfarmer50 said:

Not clear, you say the dealer will swap out tires for 17s but the ads says the car comes with 17s. What's being swapped.?

It is confusing, but what @stickguy says - the top of the line comes with 18s. The base has 16s, the rest have 17s. The reviews ding the 18s for having a harsher ride and I want smaller and cheaper replacement costs.

Looking at photos online, this one indeed has 18s. But who knows for sure.

Still getting the "When can you come in emails" and have replied with a request for the numbers breakdown and what's in the mop & glow Desert Protection Package.

driver100

bwia said:

explorerx4 said:

Thanks everyone for the kind words about the MKC.
I probably won't get to drive it much, just when it needs service or we go on a road trip.
Will post some pictures when we get it. Delivery day is Monday.

Congrats on the purchase of the MKC. It’s a nice looking vehicle but I've never seen one on the road -- pretty exclusive around here I'd say.

Come to Florida...the land of Cadillacs and Lincolns....all types all the time, including MKCs. A friend bought a 2015, before that he had an MKZ. He is a retired judge and he wants a car befitting his position which he earned, and he was raised on D3 cars so a Lincoln is the car of his dreams. He opted for the MKC this time because he is over 6 feet, and he finds it much easier to get in and out, and there is more room.....his wife is tall too. They have always liked Lincolns and they really like this one.

oldfarmer50

stever said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Not clear, you say the dealer will swap out tires for 17s but the ads says the car comes with 17s. What's being swapped.?

It is confusing, but what @stickguy says - the top of the line comes with 18s. The base has 16s, the rest have 17s. The reviews ding the 18s for having a harsher ride and I want smaller and cheaper replacement costs.

Looking at photos online, this one indeed has 18s. But who knows for sure.

Still getting the "When can you come in emails" and have replied with a request for the numbers breakdown and what's in the mop & glow Desert Protection Package.

Not to beat a dead horse but the ad says the car had 17" wheels.

"17" x 6.5J Alloy Wheels"

Only reason I'm nit picking is that when I tried to get my Ford dealer to switch wheels they said it was prohibited by law as it would void the Mulroney sticker.

Now I wonder if he was lying.

carnaught

Around me at least, the so-called Desert Protection Package = Mop And Glow. And, $1495 ?? They were always ~$800.......inflation I guess.

stever

oldfarmer50 said:

stever said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Not clear, you say the dealer will swap out tires for 17s but the ads says the car comes with 17s. What's being swapped.?

It is confusing, but what @stickguy says - the top of the line comes with 18s. The base has 16s, the rest have 17s. The reviews ding the 18s for having a harsher ride and I want smaller and cheaper replacement costs.

Looking at photos online, this one indeed has 18s. But who knows for sure.

Still getting the "When can you come in emails" and have replied with a request for the numbers breakdown and what's in the mop & glow Desert Protection Package.

Not to beat a dead horse but the ad says the car had 17" wheels.

"17" x 6.5J Alloy Wheels"

Only reason I'm nit picking is that when I tried to get my Ford dealer to switch wheels they said it was prohibited by law as it would void the Mulroney sticker.

Now I wonder if he was lying.

Yeah, the ad could be right - we show two Umber packages, but Kia only shows one for 2016. One package has the 18s and projector headlights, the other Umber just has the Corinthian leather. And I'm going by photos somewhat and those wheels looked like other 18s. So who knows. I pretty much want everything except the 18s.

Someone (Mike?) had another good explanation about why dealers were so reluctant to swap wheels but I'll have to refresh my memory. TPMS issues perhaps or maybe a suspension question.

My wife is already disgusted with the dealer and is ready to go back to the Encore. The Buick dealer's "Desert Package" is only $800 LOL.

stickguy

never let a particular dealer screw things up. I can't understand how a bad Kia dealer sales department would cause someone to go get a 2nd choice car instead, just because they had friendlier salespeople.

you spend a couple of hours in the showroom. Then every day for 10 years with the car. To me, that easily tilts the scales to the car!

only possible exception would be (like in RBs case) if there were no acceptable service departments close enough to use. But assuming the NM service is OK (old school sales doesn't preclude that) just buy the Kia elsewhere if you have to, and get what you want.

abacomike

stever said:

Not clear, you say the dealer will swap out tires for 17s but the ads says the car comes with 17s. What's being swapped.?

It is confusing, but what @stickguy says - the top of the line comes with 18s. The base has 16s, the rest have 17s. The reviews ding the 18s for having a harsher ride and I want smaller and cheaper replacement costs. Looking at photos online, this one indeed has 18s. But who knows for sure. Still getting the "When can you come in emails" and have replied with a request for the numbers breakdown and what's in the mop & glow Desert Protection Package.

Not to beat a dead horse but the ad says the car had 17" wheels. "17" x 6.5J Alloy Wheels" Only reason I'm nit picking is that when I tried to get my Ford dealer to switch wheels they said it was prohibited by law as it would void the Mulroney sticker. Now I wonder if he was lying.

Yeah, the ad could be right - we show two Umber packages, but Kia only shows one for 2016. One package has the 18s and projector headlights, the other Umber just has the Corinthian leather. And I'm going by photos somewhat and those wheels looked like other 18s. So who knows. I pretty much want everything except the 18s. Someone (Mike?) had another good explanation about why dealers were so reluctant to swap wheels but I'll have to refresh my memory. TPMS issues perhaps or maybe a suspension question. My wife is already disgusted with the dealer and is ready to go back to the Encore. The Buick dealer's "Desert Package" is only $800 LOL.

Programming and connecting tire pressure monitors is a big cost item for dealers.  Takes about 1-2 hours.

stever

Yeah, but they are just appliances to us. Buick, smuick. Half a mind to track down a last generation Prius since we liked the 2014 rental we had. All cars run pretty good these days. Really should keep the van and get a used Leaf.

It's too bad you just can't buy factory direct (without a 12 week wait).

imidazol97

abacomike said:

Programming and connecting tire pressure monitors is a big cost item for dealers.  Takes about 1-2 hours.

Does it take that long to change ID on the pressure monitors for the module?

My tire dealer didn't switch the locations in the module for the tire pressure monitors (TPMS) on the last rotation. So after I got the Cobalt back from my son, I used my tire scanner and did it in 5 minutes to match the tire monitor serial number with the location on the car for the module.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

Only reason I'm nit picking is that when I tried to get my Ford dealer to switch wheels they said it was prohibited by law as it would void the Mulroney sticker.

Now I wonder if he was lying.

They were almost certainly lying; they just didn't want to deal with a wheel swap. I will say that, as bald-face lies go, that one is pretty creative...

graphicguy

Cincinnati Car Show.....

Really too bad that it's not the same scope as something like Chicago's show. There's room in the convention center for it.

There was a black tie affair happening at the Convention Center at the same time. So, a mixture of jeans and beer crowd mingling with black tie, gowns and champaign crowd. Sort of interesting seeing the people file in and out.

Highlights for me:

-There was a super sweet 235i X drive convertible there. I know it's not nearly "hard core" enough for RoadBurner, but man did I like that car. Why, oh why do the likes of BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc, insist on the most drab colors for their cars? This one was grey with black interior. Is it possible to be any more boring? Still, if it was almosdt any other color, I might have peeled off a few Benjamins right then and there to hold it for me.

-Still like the Mustang GT, but the Camaro SS was easier to get in and out even though the roofline of the Camaro looks to be lower. The Camaro's style will probably not hold up well in the future. But, for right now, it's pretty slick.

-Challenger hasn't changed much, but would probably put it ahead of the other two muscle cars from Ford and Chevy. Especially the Scat Pack version. If I were to drop any coin on another muscle car, it would probably be on the Challenger. Egonomics are way better. Living with it on a daily basis would probably be much better than the other two.

-Still like Jag....more specifically, the XF. I understand why @laurasdada likes them so much. Sexy looking cars. Who knows what might happen if I get an itch in a little while?

-Audi...A4 is the newest member. Interior is where I noticed most of the changes....totally LCD dash. Just curious how the VW fallout has affected their sales?

-Trucks, trucks and more trucks.....$40K, $50K, $70K. Can't quite rectify that. If I wanted one, it would be a stripped down model, but even those seem to be getting quite expensive. Personal favorite? Probably a Toyota Tacoma...relatively reasonable price with sterling reliability and durability.

-Still think the Acura TLX is a lux car bargain. And, the one they had at the show was a looker....white with black trim and silver and black wheels. IT was the 4 cyl version with an MSRP in the low $30s. Don't know that you can get any better for the price.

-Lincoln....they had the Continental there. I will say this. It will either be a huge hit. Or, a dismal bust in quick order. It was locked, so couldn't sit in it. But, it's a bold statement, for certain. Lots of people crawling all over it, even though it was tucked away in an inconspicuous corner. So, maybe it's the shot in the arm Lincoln needs. Like Cadillac, it won't be mistaken for anything else on the road.

-Caddy...man the CTS-V is sexy. As much trouble as I've had with Cadillac, you see something like the CTS-V and all is forgiven. ATS-V a little too cramped for me, but it is sexy, too. If Caddy can get it's customer experience together it might just come out the other end in good shape.

Everything else? Lots of SUVs, CUVs (Including the small CUV from Mercedes, which seemed extremely small). More of the same, just in different flavors. I liked the Infiniti CUV that's based on what I'll assume is the Q50 platform. Problem there, who knows what any of their nomenclature means. I certainly didn't.

Aside from those I mentioned above, there was nothing else there that would cause me to reach for my checkbook. Although, they did have a guy selling refurbished slot machines there that I might pick up for my rec room.

carnaught

To me, when I saw the Continental at the local Auto Dhow, it seemed quite large and plush, with silver bright-work in the interior, surprisingly Bentley-like.

ab348

graphicguy said:

Cincinnati Car Show.....

Aside from those I mentioned above, there was nothing else there that would cause me to reach for my checkbook. Although, they did have a guy selling refurbished slot machines there that I might pick up for my rec room.

I dunno if a slot machine would hold my interest for long in that setting. But a friend has a restored vintage pinball machine in his and I can play with that thing forever. I never even played pinball as a kid, but that thing fascinates me.

stickguy

you can still get a 2 series in an interesting color, if you look hard enough!

http://www.bmwofturnersville.com/detail-2016-bmw-2_series-m235i_xdrive-new-14173685.html