Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

tjc78 said:

Vinyl in a 25k VW is perfectly acceptable. 

@driver100
I've driven MB, BMW and I know it's sacrilege among many of you here, but frankly I don't get it.  Beautiful cars, loaded with tech but I call BS that for 95% of the driving we all do they are any better.  Many people buy them as a status symbol.  Why do think that BMW has sold out and they now are less hard edged and drive more like Lexus/Totota?

I respect people like Roadburner that track their cars and truly appreciate the handling, etc.  

I'm not passing any judgement, and I'd gladly own an MB but wouldn't fool myself into thinking I have far superior handling/riding vehicle.  Heck I've had a 100k 7 series driver tell me my lowly 04 Grand Marquis rides better.  Now, I'm sure that is a bit of a stretch but you get the idea.  

TJC, I would agree, many people buy BMWs and MBs because they are status seekers. I can honestly say I love the engineering, the handling, comfort, sensible design, safety features, and the beautiful design. I feel confident when I am driving a car that is designed as well as humanly possible.

The 04 Grand Marquis may have certain advantages if you prefer a softer ride, especially if you are a passenger. I don't like that mushy ride....I prefer a firmer ride just as I prefer a firm mattress. Firm doesn't mean harsh, it means the ride is smooth, you just can sense what the road is really like under the wheels. I really like that the E400 has a comfortable ride, but it goes around corners flat, the steering is a bit firm but that gives me more control, and bumps are absorbed so although you know you hit a bump but it doesn't jar you and the steering wheel stays solid.

I have driven other cars and most cars these days are pretty good, but, there is a difference. My last rental was a 2015 Malibu and like I said, it is a good car and well made, but when we got home and got into the E400 my wife said it is so nice to be back in this car. There is definitely a difference.

driver100

abacomike said:

I got a call from the Cardiac Unit at the hospital I am going to tomorrow morning. They want me there at 7:00 AM and the procedure is scheduled for 9:00 AM. The procedure is expected to take about an hour or so after which I will be transferred to ICU for 24 hours. The catheter that they insert comes out in ICU and then they have to have several nurses press down on my groin for about 25-30 minutes to make sure all bleeding has stopped. The following morning, I will be transferred to a step down unit for one day and then I get to go home assuming everything went as expected.

I am certainly not looking forward to this at all. It's tough when you are all alone with no one to help. I have some family coming next Tuesday evening and they will stay for 3 days - they just couldn't get away any sooner. If I need help, I have the telephone number of my primary care physician's nurse who has someone who would come over to care for me for a day or two.

So, I guess that's it. I will definitely bring my iPhone with me so I can stay in touch with everyone - and of course my charger.

Wow! Doesn't sound like a very pleasant day. And, they want you to start at 7 a.m., no mercy at all. Really, good luck hope it goes well and you're home and talking to us soon.

stickguy

Good luck mike. You really need to find a different retirement hobby. And interesting visual for when the catheter comes out.

stickguy

At this point, even "bad" cars are do good, the marginal benefit of spending 2x the $ for a prestige nameplate is no longer what it used to be. Especially for majority of normal use. Someone like RB is definitely in a small single digit minority to be taking his car on the track.

But as always, to each their own, as long as you can afford it!

abacomike

stickguy said:

Good luck mike. You really need to find a different retirement hobby. And interesting visual for when the catheter comes out.

I'll take pictures! 

roadburner

stickguy said:

At this point, even "bad" cars are do good, the marginal benefit of spending 2x the $ for a prestige nameplate is no longer what it used to be. Especially for majority of normal use. Someone like RB is definitely in a small single digit minority to be taking his car on the track.

But as always, to each their own, as long as you can afford it!

One of the BMW "wearers" in another topic almost had a stroke when I said that I believed that the Charger R/T with the Road and Track package was better than a 535i M Sport.
Of course, that guy judges a car's goodness by how well it apprises others of his disposable income.

driver100

abacomike said:

stickguy said:

Good luck mike. You really need to find a different retirement hobby. And interesting visual for when the catheter comes out.

I'll take pictures! 

How about a play by play report!

When I went to a special clinic for my hernia operation they fed us a chicken dinner the night before. The nice young lady who served me my dinner was the lady who shaved me the next morning! It was a bit of a shock.

One guy was joking and he said I saw the chef making the dinner last night and he was also the doctor who did his operation :@

dino001

iluvmysephia1 said:

dino001 - does Tampa Bay give you "warm and fuzzy feelings" living there? Or more like "what a rat race!" type feelings?

Rat race? Absolutely not. Warm and fuzzy? Probably not that much, either. Place is being choked by with traffic (largest metropolis in the country w/o any rail commuting system), but other than that pretty decent.

dino001

roadburner said:

As long as the upholstery is attractive, durable, and comfortable, I don't care if my car has cloth, vinyl or leather. Back in the '90s it was difficult to tell the difference between vinyl and leather on most BMWs.

I can tell. The touch and smell is different. I'd rather have high quality cloth then the fake non-breathing plastic stuff then. But again, I am European, even if Americanized after 17 years.

dino001

tjc78 said:

I've driven MB, BMW and I know it's sacrilege among many of you here, but frankly I don't get it.  Beautiful cars, loaded with tech but I call BS that for 95% of the driving we all do they are any better.

Let's just agree to disagree. I have owned two German (VW, BMW), two Japanese (Subarus WRX and STI) and one American (Ford Escort). Each of those had its strengths and weaknesses. Ford was perfect for me at that time and it was performing as intended. I liked it a lot, but parted with it without any remorse. Subarus were fantastic and entertaining, much more hard core than the BMW - both were faster and more agile. But BMW kept 90 percent of that and added civilization to it. BTW, VW was my first car - 10 years old Fox, was a bit of trouble, but still felt OK.

I tried American cars multiple times, as rentals. The worst by far is Chrysler - they are usually stylish, but everything else simply sucks - from ergonomics (seating position), to suspension/handling, to engine (usual entry level, anyway). GM and Ford are both better, but until now I have not seen a mainstream American car with well profiled seats - it seemed like that's a level of knowledge that was totally beyond their abilities or comprehension. The did get better over time (90s were simply horrible, while recent models are not killing my back anymore). I just saw an automotive program that pointed new Malibu's seats as best from GM, ever in that class. I never warmed up to Cadillac's styling and their advertising has only made it worse (not to mentions GG's issues with CTS).

I totally get, why somebody doesn't want to pay for BMW or MB (or Lexus or Cadillac, for that matter). It's matter of priorities. I'm not too happy that BMW will take 10 grand more for my next car for level of features that is comparable to my current one, or that they think fold-down seats, or other similar "luxuries" are something the customer should pay as an extra. Leather is kind of a border line for me, I just mentioned that a high quality fabric may work for me better than the fake stuff. I would rather get a real stuff of either kind, the fake plastic is one that turns me off the most, because it exposes our human nature as people who would rather pay for a look-alike on chance others can't tell, than for a real stuff, or admit openly that they'd rather keep the money (which is fine too, BTW). The "tex" thing just rubs me same way as fake Rolex would. Want to buy Rolex, buy Rolex, want a Tissot, Citizen, Seiko, Casio, or Timex, fine with me, there is a place for anyone. Fake Rolex is the worst.

BTW, I'll still most likely pay for that "BS" BMW, because nobody else makes even a remotely similar car to 428i or (future) 440i Gran Coupe, which is a 5-door RWD hatchback with a sporty suspension that is not too hard, great seats, some nice features inside and proper handling. The steering feel will not likely be anything close to what I have now, but well - nobody else comes with that type car. Reading how well ATS was doing, I would look at Cadillac if they made a 5-door hatchback or a sports wagon of same size. If Audi made a proper A4 wagon (not "allroad", or had a A3 Sportsback, it would be in the running. If Subaru still made its Legacy as it did in mid 2000s, I would probably stop there. Great engineering, fantastic value. But they went "mainstream", which is not my cup of tea. Outback turned into a cow. The only other car that's remotely similar to what I like, is actually Volvo V60. However, it's FWD in its economical engine version and its AWD has gas mileage that BMW beats by a huge margin. Don't know how they do it, but they do. BTW, I still like RWD more. So you can keep yours and I keep mine,

dino001

stickguy said:

At this point, even "bad" cars are do good, the marginal benefit of spending 2x the $ for a prestige nameplate is no longer what it used to be. Especially for majority of normal use. Someone like RB is definitely in a small single digit minority to be taking his car on the track.

But as always, to each their own, as long as you can afford it!

The "low end" cars are also much more expensive. Ford Focus can sticker over $30K, not even RS (granted, not likely a transaction price). The price ratio pretty much stayed where it was.

stickguy

That's the point. In many cases the price ratio is the same, but the benefit ratio narrowed!

sda

For fun I took this picture as I waited for my daughter one evening last month. I was surprised the picture even came out. Shows how nicely the dash is illuminated at night.

driver100

I really think you have to drive a BMW/MB/Audi to understand what you are paying extra for. It seems Cadillac is matching, coming close, maybe exceeding those makes....but, there is a difference. It's like having a Steak dinner at Bern's (#1 steakhouse in Tampa - Tripadvisor) or a steak at Outback (#287). Both will get the job done, both will be satisfactory, but which one will be better (if price isn't a concern), and how do you define the difference?

oldfarmer50

Who wants to go halfsies with me on this one? You pay for it and I'll drive it.

andres3

tjc78 said:

Vinyl in a 25k VW is perfectly acceptable. 

@driver100
I've driven MB, BMW and I know it's sacrilege among many of you here, but frankly I don't get it.  Beautiful cars, loaded with tech but I call BS that for 95% of the driving we all do they are any better.  Many people buy them as a status symbol.  Why do think that BMW has sold out and they now are less hard edged and drive more like Lexus/Totota?

I respect people like Roadburner that track their cars and truly appreciate the handling, etc.  

I'm not passing any judgement, and I'd gladly own an MB but wouldn't fool myself into thinking I have far superior handling/riding vehicle.  Heck I've had a 100k 7 series driver tell me my lowly 04 Grand Marquis rides better.  Now, I'm sure that is a bit of a stretch but you get the idea.  

There's also build and safety engineering to take into account; for example, the typical MB, BMW, or Audi, stops much quicker from 60 MPH than your typical Buick Enclave. How often do you have to do panic stops? Maybe hardly ever, but when you need it, it's very nice to have a vehicle that can dodge potential accidents or stop very quickly to avoid them. For some people "rides better" solely means it is softer and floats. For others, it is the combination of comfort and sport dialed in just right that makes the difference.

tjc78

Just for giggles....MB Mclass takes 131 ft to stop from 60, Enclave does it in 126.....

Both similar size and platform age.  

ab348

LOL!

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

Who wants to go halfsies with me on this one? You pay for it and I'll drive it.




DEAL! Hey....wait a minute !!!

Michaell

tjc78 said:

Just for giggles....MB Mclass takes 131 ft to stop from 60, Enclave does it in 126.....

Both similar size and platform age.  

 Yeah, but do you have the same "feel of the road" in the Buick? 

driver100

tjc78 said:

Just for giggles....MB Mclass takes 131 ft to stop from 60, Enclave does it in 126.....

Both similar size and platform age.  

Check out #8.....2015 bmw M Class 99 feet.

#10 is a . 2012 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Black Series – 99 Feet

#1 is a Corvette. 90 feet.

Basically, the faster the car the faster the braking it seems.

Not sure if comparing one item with one particular car means much! I am thinking more the total feeling of the car........not one isolated statistic.

explorerx4

Back from the dealer with the MKC.
Not a great experience, but we got it done mostly on our terms.
We are not into creating conflict, but we started out by sending it back to get re detailed.
It's a full moon, but we both agreed that didn't make any difference.
It's supposed to snow a bit, so it's staying home tomorrow.

driver100

Michaell said:

tjc78 said:

Just for giggles....MB Mclass takes 131 ft to stop from 60, Enclave does it in 126.....

Both similar size and platform age.  

 Yeah, but do you have the same "feel of the road" in the Buick? 

Only if you get down on your hands and knees and rub your hands on the asphalt surface.

stickguy

Farmer, you already have one, so you buy and I'll drive.

Will barely break it in though. I am up to 15.5 months owned on the Sonata, and still trying to break the 9K miles barrier!

ab348

explorerx4 said:

Back from the dealer with the MKC.
Not a great experience, but we got it done mostly on our terms.
We are not into creating conflict, but we started out by sending it back to get re detailed.
It's a full moon, but we both agreed that didn't make any difference.
It's supposed to snow a bit, so it's staying home tomorrow.

Oh my.

That is not a way to begin.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Farmer, you already have one, so you buy and I'll drive. Will barely break it in though. I am up to 15.5 months owned on the Sonata, and still trying to break the 9K miles barrier!

 Did you get the 10,000 mile per year lease? 

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

Back from the dealer with the MKC. Not a great experience, but we got it done mostly on our terms. We are not into creating conflict, but we started out by sending it back to get re detailed. It's a full moon, but we both agreed that didn't make any difference. It's supposed to snow a bit, so it's staying home tomorrow.

Sorry to read that your experience was less than good, especially since the dealer had all the time in the world to make it an unforgettable experience.  The car arrived at the dealership Friday so there was more than enough time for a good detail.  Is that all that soured your experience or did the dealer play games with pricing?

explorerx4

@ab348,
I bought my fusion there and previously another car, so it wasn't completely unexpected.
Here is an example.
Go into the finance office and the guy says this will be quick.
Here are your payments for 60 months @3.84%.
I say we never discussed financing and I have other options.
He says what's your best rate?
I show him a piece of paper from Lincoln showing 0% for up to 48 months.
He has a minor heart attack and says he will need additional time check that offer and make up new paperwork.
Please wait somewhere for 1/2 an hour while he redoes everything, so we go out to the salesguy's desk to wait.
Then, as we need to sign things, he sends the salesguy back a couple times for us to sign things.
I tell the salesguy as he heads back the second time, we will move closer to the office if it will save him some wear and tear.
On his return trip, he says we can head into the office to complete the paperwork.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Farmer, you already have one, so you buy and I'll drive.

Will barely break it in though. I am up to 15.5 months owned on the Sonata, and still trying to break the 9K miles barrier!

Yeah, but mine is a puppy compared to that big dog GT350 with the 5.2L. Only $57,000 and change. Using the driver100 method that's just one double decafe latte' with foam and sprinkles a day.

(For the rest of your life)


http://morrisfordinc.com/Glenville/For-Sale/New/Ford/Mustang/2016-Shelby-GT350-Black-Car/46187941/

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@ab348,
I bought my fusion there and previously another car, so it wasn't completely unexpected.
Here is an example.
Go into the finance office and the guy says this will be quick.
Here are your payments for 60 months @3.84%.
I say we never discussed financing and I have other options.
He says what's your best rate?
I show him a piece of paper from Lincoln showing 0% for up to 48 months.
He has a minor heart attack and says he will need additional time check that offer and make up new paperwork.
Please wait somewhere for 1/2 an hour while he redoes everything, so we go out to the salesguy's desk to wait.
Then, as we need to sign things, he sends the salesguy back a couple times for us to sign things.
I tell the salesguy as he heads back the second time, we will move closer to the office if it will save him some wear and tear.
On his return trip, he says we can head into the office to complete the paperwork.

Sounds like they were punishing him for screwing F&I out of their profit. 3.84%? You must be one of those 398 credit scores.

What was wrong with the detail that you noticed so quickly? When they delivered my Eclipse it had been washed but so poorly that road salt was still oozing out of the panel joints. First place I drove was to a self serve car wash with a high pressure hose.

carnaught

Mike, good luck with tomorrow's procedure, and keep up in the loop.

tjc78

I had my 2003 Avalon gone back over before delivery. They did a crap job buffing it and there were giant swirls on the hood.  My salesperson said I was 100% justified and if she would have seen it before me she would have told them first.  

ab348

explorerx4 said:

@ab348,
I bought my fusion there and previously another car, so it wasn't completely unexpected.
Here is an example.
Go into the finance office and the guy says this will be quick.
Here are your payments for 60 months @3.84%.
I say we never discussed financing and I have other options.
He says what's your best rate?
I show him a piece of paper from Lincoln showing 0% for up to 48 months.
He has a minor heart attack and says he will need additional time check that offer and make up new paperwork.
Please wait somewhere for 1/2 an hour while he redoes everything, so we go out to the salesguy's desk to wait.
Then, as we need to sign things, he sends the salesguy back a couple times for us to sign things.
I tell the salesguy as he heads back the second time, we will move closer to the office if it will save him some wear and tear.
On his return trip, he says we can head into the office to complete the paperwork.

Sounds a lot like my experience when I went to take delivery on my new 2011 Regal Turbo a few years back. Finance guy had everything wrong, had to wait while he did everything over, then he took time out to visit with some friends who dropped in. I almost walked. He wasn't there for very long as it worked out, for obvious reasons.

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

@ab348, I bought my fusion there and previously another car, so it wasn't completely unexpected. Here is an example. Go into the finance office and the guy says this will be quick. Here are your payments for 60 months @3.84%. I say we never discussed financing and I have other options. He says what's your best rate? I show him a piece of paper from Lincoln showing 0% for up to 48 months. He has a minor heart attack and says he will need additional time check that offer and make up new paperwork. Please wait somewhere for 1/2 an hour while he redoes everything, so we go out to the salesguy's desk to wait. Then, as we need to sign things, he sends the salesguy back a couple times for us to sign things. I tell the salesguy as he heads back the second time, we will move closer to the office if it will save him some wear and tear. On his return trip, he says we can head into the office to complete the paperwork.

What's most unfortunate is that anyone with a 700+ FICO score could get a 2.25% interest rate - so they were trying to screw you even before you sat down.  Also, if Lincoln is offering 0% financing for 48 months, that should have been made clear to you at the start.  Imagine if you found out about 0% financing the next day or week and they didn't offer it to you?

That's a dealer I would never buy a car from.  At least you got what you wanted in spite of their antics.

Enjoy the car - may it bring you and your wife many years of happiness. 

abacomike

carnaught said:

Mike, good luck with tomorrow's procedure, and keep up in the loop.

Thanks carnaught - I probably won't get much sleep tonight. 

stickguy

Michael, I got 12k. So if I never change jobs and start commuting, I'll just drive cross country a few times the last year I own it!

Farmer, I kind of like this one at the same dealer. though a 6 speed would be better of course.

http://morrisfordinc.com/Glenville/For-Sale/New/Ford/Mustang/2016-EcoBoost-Blue-Car/45443691/

oldfarmer50

Ha ha.

I'm watching the X Files and Mulder is being rescued by an agent driving a Mustang. Didn't know they were standard FBI issue.

[Deleted User]

Speaking of car details, my work travel has been super heavy making it difficult to finish the Audi. This weekend I had some time to complete the paint. Wheels are next. Here's a quick look at how things are turning out:



Now, if Kanye West can call the garbage he inflicts on the public "art", then I hereby declare my detailing work art and name the following self portrait "reflections":



The black paint truly is beautiful when properly polished. So deep and reflective.

abacomike

tyguy said:

Speaking of car details, my work travel has been super heavy making it difficult to finish the Audi. This weekend I had some time to complete the paint. Wheels are next. Here's a quick look at how things are turning out: Now, if Kanye West can call the garbage he inflicts on the public "art", then I hereby declare my detailing work art and name the following self portrait "reflections": The black paint truly is beautiful when properly polished. So deep and reflective.

Gorgeous!

stickguy

I better not ever buy a black car. I could never do that myself, and am way too cheap to pay what it would cost to get it done!

coldinohio

nice; i'll bring my A4 buy this summer... lol

abacomike

I owned 2 black cars in my life - one before I knew how difficult it was to keep clean and scratch-free - the other because I forgot how difficult it was to keep clean and scratch-free!  

[Deleted User]

LOL Mike and Ohio. This is my second black car, the first being my Jetta Wagon, and I have to say, the paint has changed tremendously since they sprayed the Jetta. The newer Audi paint is much, much harder to work than the Jetta, and I think it's a result of the new environmental paint blends they adopted. Wow. I just had to take it slow and deliberate this time around.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@ab348,
I bought my fusion there and previously another car, so it wasn't completely unexpected.
Here is an example.
Go into the finance office and the guy says this will be quick.
Here are your payments for 60 months @3.84%.
I say we never discussed financing and I have other options.
He says what's your best rate?
I show him a piece of paper from Lincoln showing 0% for up to 48 months.
He has a minor heart attack and says he will need additional time check that offer and make up new paperwork.
Please wait somewhere for 1/2 an hour while he redoes everything, so we go out to the salesguy's desk to wait.
Then, as we need to sign things, he sends the salesguy back a couple times for us to sign things.
I tell the salesguy as he heads back the second time, we will move closer to the office if it will save him some wear and tear.
On his return trip, he says we can head into the office to complete the paperwork.

Way to go explorer...you survived all that and made it home with your new car.
What an awful experience for what should be a happy exciting day.
Sounds like they tried to pull one over on you, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people fell for it.
If you are asked to do a survey what will you say?

Hope all the rest is pure enjoyment, and if it snows why not check out the AWD?

driver100

tyguy said:

Speaking of car details, my work travel has been super heavy making it difficult to finish the Audi. This weekend I had some time to complete the paint. Wheels are next. Here's a quick look at how things are turning out:




The black paint truly is beautiful when properly polished. So deep and reflective.

I don't think new ones are that shiny....that is unreal!
Looks fantastic ty!

suydam

abacomike said:

I owned 2 black cars in my life - one before I knew how difficult it was to keep clean and scratch-free - the other because I forgot how difficult it was to keep clean and scratch-free!  

I didn't want a black car because of that, but my Encore looks surprisingly good most of the time (in winter everyone's cars look crappy here). It's called carbon black metallic and for whatever reason it doesn't show every spot.

explorerx4

@tyguy,
Great job on that paint. From your picture, it looks like your knees are working.

@driver100,
I don't expect to have a great day buying a car, but this was below expectations, considering I tried to get into the finance office last Friday to make sure the delivery would go smoothly.

A nice MKC feature, there are lights built into the door handles to illuminate them.

tjc78

suydam said:

I owned 2 black cars in my life - one before I knew how difficult it was to keep clean and scratch-free - the other because I forgot how difficult it was to keep clean and scratch-free!  

I didn't want a black car because of that, but my Encore looks surprisingly good most of the time (in winter everyone's cars look crappy here). It's called carbon black metallic and for whatever reason it doesn't show every spot.

My 2012 LaCrosse was that color  it made living with black a little easier.  In all reality it looked cleaner when dirty than the navy blue we have now. 

tjc78

@tyguy
Wow! You could run a side business.  Most new cars on the lot don't look that good. 

nyccarguy

@tyguy - WOW!  That looks spectacular!  +1 on what @tjc78 said:  "most new cars on the lot don't look that good."