Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

I agree about the TLX. When I went to the show a few weeks back, that was still one of my favorites. Great seats, plenty of "stuff". Though it does seem very familiar since the dash is a lot like the RDX (though not as much as the ILX which I think was a straight drag and drop!)

stever

ab348 said:

I dunno if a slot machine would hold my interest for long in that setting.

I had a Big Chief for about 3 years and sold it when I moved from Memphis. Now I play Wild West Pinball on my iPad most every day. It's pretty realistic.

Kia dealer just opened - should be getting another "come on down" email any minute now.

driver100

Great review GG....liked your insight!

About the 235 - BMW prides itself on being simple and stoic...and limited choice of colors gives them reverse snob appeal. If you want the priveledge of driving a BMW you get 8 basic colors to choose from.Some of the lowest priced cars have the best color selection...Hyundai and Cruze.

I am surprised at the cost of trucks. A friends moderately optioned F-150 was $60k. That's luxury car prices for a work horse!

Dodge Challenger. I was passing one on the left the other day and it looked like it had a vertical air scoop between the front door and front wheel well. I hadn't seen one like that before but it looked really nice. Then he passed me by on my left and I could see there wasn't an air scoop on the right side. I guess he hit the left side and left a dent that looked like an air scoop, really liked the scoop side more.....I should send them my idea.

jpp75

stever said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Not clear, you say the dealer will swap out tires for 17s but the ads says the car comes with 17s. What's being swapped.?

It is confusing, but what @stickguy says - the top of the line comes with 18s. The base has 16s, the rest have 17s. The reviews ding the 18s for having a harsher ride and I want smaller and cheaper replacement costs.

Looking at photos online, this one indeed has 18s. But who knows for sure.

Still getting the "When can you come in emails" and have replied with a request for the numbers breakdown and what's in the mop & glow Desert Protection Package.

I was trying to work with our local Acura dealer a few months back, all I got was "When can you come in" and when I asked for pricing she informed me they didn't give it out as they had found people then shop the price with other dealers. I didn't waste time e-mailing her back explaining that was the entire point of getting quotes online.

explorerx4

Before you assume the dealer was lying, read this recall for the reason why.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/29/honda-recalls-2012-13-fit-sport-models-over-stability-control-is/

roadburner

stickguy said:

you can still get a 2 series in an interesting color, if you look hard enough!

http://www.bmwofturnersville.com/detail-2016-bmw-2_series-m235i_xdrive-new-14173685.html

I am definitely going to add some type of BMW Motorsport graphics to my 2er. I don't want anything really outrageous, but I do want to make it stand out a little bit.

imidazol97

roadburner said:

I am definitely going to add some type of BMW Motorsport graphics to my 2er.

Remember to post pictures please!

ab348

driver100 said:

About the 235 - BMW prides itself on being simple and stoic...and limited choice of colors gives them reverse snob appeal. If you want the priveledge of driving a BMW you get 8 basic colors to choose from.

I've never been much of a BMW guy but just visited the BMW Canada website to build a couple of models. A 2-series comes in 4 colors - white being the only no-charge one, with metallic gray, white or black for an extra $895. Interior colors are either black or "terra", a brown. I also built a 340 and it was even worse: only 3 colors, white, silver or black, and only a black interior. They must figure they will sell them in spite of the lack of color.

What is even more annoying is that in the various pictures they show on the site, they illustrate colors you cannot order here. I assume they are available in other markets.

stever

explorerx4 said:

Before you assume the dealer was lying, read this recall for the reason why.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/29/honda-recalls-2012-13-fit-sport-models-over-stability-control-is/

Thanks for that link - that's kind of been in the back of my mind. Unintended consequences.

roadburner

ab348 said:

I've never been much of a BMW guy but just visited the BMW Canada website to build a couple of models. A 2-series comes in 4 colors - white being the only no-charge one, with metallic gray, white or black for an extra $895. Interior colors are either black or "terra", a brown. I also built a 340 and it was even worse: only 3 colors, white, silver or black, and only a black interior. They must figure they will sell them in spite of the lack of color.

What is even more annoying is that in the various pictures they show on the site, they illustrate colors you cannot order here. I assume they are available in other markets.

Interesting. The BMW NA site shows two non-metallic colors and ten metallic colors available on the 340i(although some colors are only available with certain trim levels). There are three vinyl and seven shades of leather.

roadburner

stever said:

explorerx4 said:

Before you assume the dealer was lying, read this recall for the reason why.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/29/honda-recalls-2012-13-fit-sport-models-over-stability-control-is/

Thanks for that link - that's kind of been in the back of my mind. Unintended consequences.

In oldfarmers's case I think that the wheel swap he requested only involved tires of the same size- I could see an issue if he had wanted the one inch larger Performance Package staggered tires/wheels, but I still think that the dealer just wanted an excuse not to deal with it.

ab348

roadburner said:

Interesting. The BMW NA site shows two non-metallic colors and ten metallic colors available on the 340i(although some colors are only available with certain trim levels). There are three vinyl and seven shades of leather.

Wow. I just looked and they offer a far broader array of choices there than in Canada. I guess that explains why I only ever see white, black or silver/gray BMWs on the local dealer's lot.

roadburner

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

Interesting. The BMW NA site shows two non-metallic colors and ten metallic colors available on the 340i(although some colors are only available with certain trim levels). There are three vinyl and seven shades of leather.

Wow. I just looked and they offer a far broader array of choices there than in Canada. I guess that explains why I only ever see white, black or silver/gray BMWs on the local dealer's lot.

The salespeople at my local dealer tell me that they order most all but the sport or M models in black or silver because that is what sells...

Mr_Shiftright

lemmings...well to be fair, BMWs don't look so good in some colors.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

About the 235 - BMW prides itself on being simple and stoic...and limited choice of colors gives them reverse snob appeal. If you want the priveledge of driving a BMW you get 8 basic colors to choose from.

I've never been much of a BMW guy but just visited the BMW Canada website to build a couple of models. A 2-series comes in 4 colors - white being the only no-charge one, with metallic gray, white or black for an extra $895. Interior colors are either black or "terra", a brown. I also built a 340 and it was even worse: only 3 colors, white, silver or black, and only a black interior. They must figure they will sell them in spite of the lack of color.

What is even more annoying is that in the various pictures they show on the site, they illustrate colors you cannot order here. I assume they are available in other markets.

These are cars with limited sales so they have limited the choices to the 3 top selling colors these days, white black and silver in that order. Same with interior, I have had black and don;t mind it but I prefer lighter colors if given a choice - most people like black on these cars as it is easier to keep clean.

BMW and MB charge about $900 for metallic paints, most companies don't charge extra. I do believe the paint costs more but why not suck it up as part of business....more nice cars on the road are good advertising....dollars well spent.

driver100

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

About the 235 - BMW prides itself on being simple and stoic...and limited choice of colors gives them reverse snob appeal. If you want the priveledge of driving a BMW you get 8 basic colors to choose from.

I've never been much of a BMW guy but just visited the BMW Canada website to build a couple of models. A 2-series comes in 4 colors - white being the only no-charge one, with metallic gray, white or black for an extra $895. Interior colors are either black or "terra", a brown. I also built a 340 and it was even worse: only 3 colors, white, silver or black, and only a black interior. They must figure they will sell them in spite of the lack of color.

What is even more annoying is that in the various pictures they show on the site, they illustrate colors you cannot order here. I assume they are available in other markets.

These are cars with limited sales so they have limited the choices to the 3 top selling colors these days, white black and silver in that order (in Canada they only sell about 10% of what they sell in the USA...in the case of that recalled Honda Fit it was 5%) . Same with interior, I have had black and it can look good but I prefer lighter colors if given a choice - most people like black on these cars as it is easier to keep clean.

BMW and MB charge about $900 for metallic paints, most companies don't charge extra. I do believe the paint costs more but why not suck it up as part of business....more nice cars on the road are good advertising....dollars well spent.

abacomike

driver100 said:

About the 235 - BMW prides itself on being simple and stoic...and limited choice of colors gives them reverse snob appeal. If you want the priveledge of driving a BMW you get 8 basic colors to choose from.

I've never been much of a BMW guy but just visited the BMW Canada website to build a couple of models. A 2-series comes in 4 colors - white being the only no-charge one, with metallic gray, white or black for an extra $895. Interior colors are either black or "terra", a brown. I also built a 340 and it was even worse: only 3 colors, white, silver or black, and only a black interior. They must figure they will sell them in spite of the lack of color. What is even more annoying is that in the various pictures they show on the site, they illustrate colors you cannot order here. I assume they are available in other markets.

These are cars with limited sales so they have limited the choices to the 3 top selling colors these days, white black and silver in that order. Same with interior, I have had black and don;t mind it but I prefer lighter colors if given a choice - most people like black on these cars as it is easier to keep clean. BMW and MB charge about $900 for metallic paints, most companies don't charge extra. I do believe the paint costs more but why not suck it up as part of business....more nice cars on the road are good advertising....dollars well spent.

MB charges $1690 for metallic paints and their Designo colors, like Diamond White Metalic, are optional at an additional $795 on the E Class.  On the CLS and other more expensive models, metallic paints are standard but there is an additional charge for their Designo colors like  Diamond White Metallic ($795).

imidazol97

Here's a BMW that's not silver, black, or red.
I was checking site for Fuel Coffee in Cincy and this was
posted on their site. They're reminding drivers of
quick cars not to disturb the neighborhood.

Click to play video
Driving excitement with rear wheel drive
I see something hanging by right front wheel under
the car as drive turns to sneak to the side road to hide.
https://youtu.be/miA5qj5ergM

nelsonf

That's a pretty famous video in the BMW M car world. Turned off too many nannies, then punched it.

PF_Flyer

First sign of Spring... Daytona 500.

How much will it mean, if anything, that Toyota not only won for he first time, but had 4 of the top 5 spots?

They're calling them Camry's, but the "stock" has been out of stock car racing for some time

stickguy

well, got the taxes down and filed today. Set for another year (already got the kids done). Now just have to work up the enthusiasm to do the FAFSA! maybe after dinner. Or when I get bored during the week.

ab348

PF_Flyer said:

First sign of Spring... Daytona 500.

How much will it mean, if anything, that Toyota not only won for he first time, but had 4 of the top 5 spots?

They're calling them Camry's, but the "stock" has been out of stock car racing for some time

Those cars have about as much in common with a Camry as I do with J.J. Watt.

oldfarmer50

stever said:

Yeah, but they are just appliances to us. Buick, smuick. Half a mind to track down a last generation Prius since we liked the 2014 rental we had. All cars run pretty good these days. Really should keep the van and get a used Leaf.

It's too bad you just can't buy factory direct (without a 12 week wait).

Wow! Appliances? Can you even say that here?

Assuming that Edmunds doesn't throw you in the gulag for saying that I would encourage you to go get a Prius. Not my cup if tea but if you can't get the most screaming deal of the century on one right now you better check your pulse. If you don't like it wait two years until gas goes back up and trade it for what you paid on a Kia of your choice.

iluvmysephia1

Click to play video
Driving excitement with rear wheel drive
I see something hanging by right front wheel under
the car as drive turns to sneak to the side road to hide.

Boy, he really snuck outta there quick after hopping the curb and he did spring something loose from his suspension. Can't help ta remind me of taking my friend out for a spin in Dad's '66 VW Fastback and once about 2" of snow was safely on the ground I decided it was a good time ta do a burnout in the snow. We were in a furniture store parking lot. Darn boulders for landscaping - they don't push out of the way very well!

Dad never gave me a talk about that smooth move - just had it towed in to the body shop to get it fixed. Those events are such buzzkills, man!

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

Here's a BMW that's not silver, black, or red.
I was checking site for Fuel Coffee in Cincy and this was
posted on their site. They're reminding drivers of
quick cars not to disturb the neighborhood.

Click to play video
Driving excitement with rear wheel drive
I see something hanging by right front wheel under
the car as drive turns to sneak to the side road to hide.
https://youtu.be/miA5qj5ergM

Busted tie rod? I thought Bimmers were tougher than that.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

Here's a BMW that's not silver, black, or red.
I was checking site for Fuel Coffee in Cincy and this was
posted on their site. They're reminding drivers of
quick cars not to disturb the neighborhood.

Click to play video
Driving excitement with rear wheel drive
I see something hanging by right front wheel under
the car as drive turns to sneak to the side road to hide.

That was cool.....I guess that guy wanted to get on the other side of the median.

Surprised it is just one small rod hanging down after his mishap.

iluvmysephia1

Surprised it is just one small rod hanging down after his mishap.

No doubt, driver.

abacomike

I realize this is off topic, but please humor me.  You guys know I always complain about the lack of good drama series on TV.  Even situation comedies are not what they used to be.  But I've been blown away by the CBS series "Madam Secretary!"

If you have not had the opportunity to follow the series, try watching a few installments.  I highly recommend it. 

stever

oldfarmer50 said:

Wow! Appliances? Can you even say that here?

Assuming that Edmunds doesn't throw you in the gulag

Think about why most people come to Edmunds - the enthusiasts are way outnumbered by people who need a daily driver and want to get the most bang for their buck. That was me back in '98 when I found this place looking for invoice prices minivan shopping. I got a bunch of buying tips and reviews and then I did the blast fax method - that article is long gone now. Now I'm trying to buy a car via email but buying a new car is still like pulling teeth in a lot of places. Here in Las Cruces anyway.

iluvmysephia1

LC is kind of weak for car dealers but Alamogordo is even more so. We knew a friend of a friend who sold used cars on 10th St. just north of Wal*Mart. Not my favorite kinds of rigs, but he had a good reputation for honesty and used car bang-for-the-buck. Dodge Caravans, Ford Taurus', Pontiac GTO 4-doors circa 2006 - cars like that. New cars? Toyota, GM, Chrysler...no HyunKia, no Scion.

Weak pizza sauce, Alamogordo! But Las Cruces is perhaps a small step better. I was prepared to buy a Nissan cube in El Paso in early July 2014, but, Viva Kia/Mitsubishi/Nissan/Chevrolet didn't have any ta test drive. What?

Test drove that '11 white Soul and told the salesguy that I was interested but "wanted some time ta poke around Las Cruces and Alamogordo a bit first." The result? Nothing there for me in either town. I coulda drove a Corolla but I don't really like 'em.

Hopefully stever you can hammer a deal out with 'em or go for a used Prius like you said. You don't like the 2016 Prius? Toyota isn't calling this new slicey, dicey Prius a 2017 model are they?

berri

Expand the search. It always seemed to me that the west kind of gouges on car prices. Checkout Midwestern dealers like MO. You may find you can make a vacation out of it and still be in the black. One way fares are often not that much. Sort of like a poor man's trip to Europe to pick up that MB. Here's an example, one of our kids lives in the Seattle area and another in Chicago. Highlanders in Seattle are something like only $750 off sticker, while in Chicago I've seen them advertised for 3 grand or better off. One way into ORD or MDW from SEA can be had for a C note or so if you are flexible. Why let the Seattle dealers rip you off when you're kind of retired? Same goes for NM, although ABQ into ORD or MDW OW might be another 50 bucks or so.

IIRC Stever has a sister who flies for United. Chicago has a pretty competitive car market. Fly up and visit while driving back in a new ride and a few extra bucks in your pocket.

stever

The last time we got a car out of state we drove it back to Idaho from Anchorage. That was fun.

@iluvmysephia1, the '16 Prius was disappointing, especially after we liked the '14 we rented for two weeks.

berri

Like I said though, go visit the sister. I'll be the dealers in Chicago are really dealing on Prius or Soul. Ought to at least check it out on the Internet before letting NM dealers rip you off. What really irritates me is that those small NM dealers probably have much lower overhead costs, but poor mouth trying to justify the jacked up dealer profit margins. Competition works for the buyer.

iluvmysephia1

The last time we got a car out of state we drove it back to Idaho from Anchorage. That was fun.

Coolio topped off with an Iglasius!

stever

berri said:

Like I said though, go visit the sister..

Souls are all over - identical one over in Tucson. Easy 4 hour drive, got friends there we could visit. And yeah, in theory I could fly free/stand-by, but my sister doesn't even use her passes (good memory).

Part of it is that she's barely computer literate and part is because it's hard to fly stand-by any more since the loads are so full. She hates getting bumped in her old age.

berri

Hopefully that will work. My kid tells me about all this palaver from Seattle dealers from our cost are much higher here to veiled threats they won't service the out of state car. Yeah right, Illinois taxes anyone and anything it can put its hands on and even if true, I don't see it being anywhere near 3X higher. Dealers make way more profit from service than new car sales and I don't suppose the manufacturer will be thrilled with complaints about getting the car serviced. Of course there are multiple dealers so it's not gonna be an issue at all of them regardless.

stever

And remember who you're talking to. Really should be shopping for a Hudson Inertia....

berri

Hudson Italia would be nice maybe

stever

Don't tell my wife but I really have my eye on that Plymouth Procrastinator. In Eerie Eggplant.

Think I'll do the switcheroo tomorrow and email the salesguy and ask him what he can do to sell me a new car TODAY. Since I washed the van, maybe I'll even grab both sets of keys and let them appraise it as a trade-in.

oldfarmer50

iluvmysephia1 said:

Click to play video
Driving excitement with rear wheel drive
I see something hanging by right front wheel under
the car as drive turns to sneak to the side road to hide.

Boy, he really snuck outta there quick after hopping the curb and he did spring something loose from his suspension. Can't help ta remind me of taking my friend out for a spin in Dad's '66 VW Fastback and once about 2" of snow was safely on the ground I decided it was a good time ta do a burnout in the snow. We were in a furniture store parking lot. Darn boulders for landscaping - they don't push out of the way very well!

Dad never gave me a talk about that smooth move - just had it towed in to the body shop to get it fixed. Those events are such buzzkills, man!

Had the same experience in a friend's 55 Chevy. He was showing it off in the school parking lot one night and spun out into a light pole. Left a perfect impression of the pole in the passenger's door.

suydam

stever said:

Don't tell my wife but I really have my eye on that Plymouth Procrastinator. In Eerie Eggplant.

Think I'll do the switcheroo tomorrow and email the salesguy and ask him what he can do to sell me a new car TODAY. Since I washed the van, maybe I'll even grab both sets of keys and let them appraise it as a trade-in.

We had a similar experience many years ago trying to buy a VW Passat. The dealer would not budge, couldn't find the car in the color we wanted, and we were beyond frustration. After our last failed visit, I decided to visit the Nissan dealer down the street and take a look at the Maxima instead. At that point I hadn't even checked one out because we were certain we getting a Passat. They were willing to deal, had the exact car I wanted, and we loved driving it. Their service department turned out to be very good too. We drove that car for 12 happy years. Plus we had the satisfaction of not lining the pockets of a dealership we hated dealing with.

One factor in that decision was thinking that if the dealership was so awful for the buying experience, what would the service after be like? If you're really set on the Soul, then I guess you'll have to work with that dealer. But if you've got another option, I'd check it out before you make your final decision.

dino001

driver100 said:

BMW and MB charge about $900 for metallic paints, most companies don't charge extra. I do believe the paint costs more but why not suck it up as part of business....more nice cars on the road are good advertising....dollars well spent.

That's not BMW's/MB's way, never been anywhere in the world. MB still has leather as an expensive option on $55K+ E-class, let alone lower models. What's worse, here in Tampa, VAST majority of those models (some at essentially 100%) on dealers' lots are with this fake stuff, so you often can't even touch the real thing to compare. BMW used to charge to split fold down seats on 328/335, now it's optional "only" on 320 (std. on higher models). That's why their "starts at..." has no meanin

Even Audi, albeit much more inclusive, has some similar particulars.

iluvmysephia1

dino001 - does Tampa Bay give you "warm and fuzzy feelings" living there? Or more like "what a rat race!" type feelings?

tjc78

The whole Vinyl interior in MB and Mercedes drives me nuts.  I just don't understand why they do it.  I expect leather in anything costing that much.  Heck I wouldn't have purchased my 47k Enclave of it wasn't leather. 

stickguy

My sons Jetta has pleather and it doesn't bother me really. Not that noticeably different than leather in our Hondas. I do prefer the cloth in the Jetta sport though!

driver100

tjc78 said:

The whole Vinyl interior in MB and Mercedes drives me nuts.  I just don't understand why they do it.  I expect leather in anything costing that much.  Heck I wouldn't have purchased my 47k Enclave of it wasn't leather. 

The extra cost saved by not using leather is put to good use in the car...and I don't mind Mercedes leather at all....might even be better in some respects. But, it isn't a case of a $47k Enclave having leather against a $60k BMW/MB not having leather.....the money has been well spent on other refinements. Driving an Enclave may be great, but it just won't drive or handle like a bmw/MB otherwise we'd all be buying them and saving a few $1000s.

roadburner

As long as the upholstery is attractive, durable, and comfortable, I don't care if my car has cloth, vinyl or leather. Back in the '90s it was difficult to tell the difference between vinyl and leather on most BMWs.

tjc78

Vinyl in a 25k VW is perfectly acceptable. 

@driver100
I've driven MB, BMW and I know it's sacrilege among many of you here, but frankly I don't get it.  Beautiful cars, loaded with tech but I call BS that for 95% of the driving we all do they are any better.  Many people buy them as a status symbol.  Why do think that BMW has sold out and they now are less hard edged and drive more like Lexus/Totota?

I respect people like Roadburner that track their cars and truly appreciate the handling, etc.  

I'm not passing any judgement, and I'd gladly own an MB but wouldn't fool myself into thinking I have far superior handling/riding vehicle.  Heck I've had a 100k 7 series driver tell me my lowly 04 Grand Marquis rides better.  Now, I'm sure that is a bit of a stretch but you get the idea.  

abacomike

roadburner said:

As long as the upholstery is attractive, durable, and comfortable, I don't care if my car has cloth, vinyl or leather. Back in the '90s it was difficult to tell the difference between vinyl and leather on most BMWs.

The first 10 Mercedes Benz Vehicles I owned, except for my 1987 300 SDL, had MBtex, or MB's name for vinyl. It is only since I started ordering ventilated/cooled front seats that I started getting leather because it is required with that option. Quite frankly, I preferred the MBtex vinyl seats because they were not only good looking and retained their shape, but they also were easier to maintain and clean.

My current CLS400 has leather, which is standard, and it is perforated in order to allow cool air to be circulated to your buttocks as well as to your upper and lower back. I do not believe vinyl can come perforated because vinyl that is perforated tends to tear or rip easily where leather is much tougher.

I have frequently commented about leather not being standard in the C and E Class models because any car that costs $40,000+ should come standard with leather, IMHO! :@

abacomike

I got a call from the Cardiac Unit at the hospital I am going to tomorrow morning. They want me there at 7:00 AM and the procedure is scheduled for 9:00 AM. The procedure is expected to take about an hour or so after which I will be transferred to ICU for 24 hours. The catheter that they insert comes out in ICU and then they have to have several nurses press down on my groin for about 25-30 minutes to make sure all bleeding has stopped. The following morning, I will be transferred to a step down unit for one day and then I get to go home assuming everything went as expected.

I am certainly not looking forward to this at all. It's tough when you are all alone with no one to help. I have some family coming next Tuesday evening and they will stay for 3 days - they just couldn't get away any sooner. If I need help, I have the telephone number of my primary care physician's nurse who has someone who would come over to care for me for a day or two.

So, I guess that's it. I will definitely bring my iPhone with me so I can stay in touch with everyone - and of course my charger.