Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

carnaught

tjc78 said:

The Lincoln is a 64. It has the little piece of trim from the wheel arch to front bumper.  

Awesome, subtle pick-up by you!

stickguy

And by the end, it had a turret!

andres3

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

States get a LOT of tax revenue, over and over and over again, on just one car. Doesn't seem right, does it?

Lots of things don't seem right when the government is involved:
Gambling is ok if the government is involved.
No proof red light cameras cut down on accidents, but the government can make lots of money from them.

By the way, I read about a way that really cuts down on traffic light corner accidents, but you can't generate money from it. One is to have longer amber lights...just need 2 or 3 extra seconds, and the second is to have a red light in both directions for an extra two seconds. Those two things actually make a big difference.

I think most studies that haven't been corrupted or doctored show that red light cameras actually increase accidents, rather than reduce them. Also, in actuality, as little as 1 second extra yellow light time is plenty to drastically reduce red light running and make intersections safer. Also, drivers should be trained to only go forward on green when it is safe to do so; not just blindly go when the light turns green.

Some NMA members recently got a Philadelphia Traffic Engineer (PE) to admit the reason they added lots of wide bike lanes wasn't due to the number of bicyclists, but to slow people down with purposely poor traffic engineering.

I'm with the NMA on this issue, bicyclists should thank motorists for the roads and bike lanes the car and fuel taxes pay for. In other words, bicyclists are leeches on the roadways they don't pay for.

You wouldn't have a link to that would you? If true that would be a shocking admission.

If he has it, it's likely not what the NMA promotes it as.

Actually it's pretty close. Here in Albany they are proposing restricting motor vehicle lanes in favor of bikes which will cause tremendous headaches for drivers.

I've always suspected that some of the "safety" measures politicians are taking is really an agenda to harass drivers. Part of a larger campaign against hydrocarbon energy.

Actually the link that Andres linked to was a traffic engineer talking about traffic calming measures designed to reduce traffic speed when entering a more congested area which would require slower speeds. Totally different than what Andres was implying.

WRONG!

It was admitted that they felt 20 MPH is an acceptable collision speed, whereas 25 or 30 is not apparently, in a backwards kind of thinking. It has nothing to do with "required" slower speeds. The focus should be on not having collisions in the first place, not making them acceptable since everyone is going 20 or less.

In essence, they'd rather have a million collisions at 20 MPH than a few at 30 MPH. I exaggerate the differences in frequency, but my point remains valid.

explorerx4

If only the last digit of the VIN is missing, it's within 10 vehicles.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

1G6AX5SX6E019408

@graphicguy
I had asked you about it and suggested doing a check to see where the car went
after it was turned back to the dealer/Cadillac with all those problems.

There's a digit missing within the last seven digits.
1G6AX5SX6E019408 compared to
1G6DV1EP1E0124268 for a VIN for another 2014 Cadillac CTS at Cadillac/Suburu.

Imid...sorry, I thought it was qbrozen who asked.

You're right. a digit was missing.

Try

1G6AX5SX6E0194308

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

If GG thought that 98' Cobra was pricey he'd have a heart attack at this one:



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5580986335.html

That's stupid money, given what I can buy a recent GT that will outperform that Cobra in every way.

henryn

Interesting round with body shops / collision centers this week. I think I posted here about being hit on my way to work Monday morning. Minor damage to my Cadillac, but has to be fixed. I was apparently in the other driver’s blind spot when he decided that he needed to make a left turn, so …

My insurance company, USAA has authorized the repairs, no deductible as the other driver was at fault. And they sent me a list of their authorized repair facilities here in my area. I can use any repair facility, but if I use one of their authorized facilities I can just drop off the car and not have to deal with estimates and that whole ball game.

But… (you knew there was going to be a “but”, right?)

Due to the recent flooding here in the greater Houston area, all repair facilities are backed up. Most of them on the list are telling me a minimum of 2 weeks before they can get to me. I found one that will take me in next Monday, the 16th, so I jumped on that one.

USAA has also agreed to spring for a rental car starting now, not when the car goes in the shop. This due to the right front headlight being out, so that I can’t drive the car at night. So today I called Enterprise (the anointed rental car vendor for USAA). Boy, those people are no fun to deal with. None. At all. They have me in the system, I am preapproved, but they can’t tell me what rental car I can get. They know that USAA is good for $39.50 per day, but they’re not at all sure what I can get for that rate.

Seems they have one rate for individuals, and another rate for insurance companies, and the lady I spoke with on the phone couldn’t tell me what I could get. She would “get back to me on that”. Which was about 6 hours ago, and hasn’t happened.

andres3

henryn said:

Interesting round with body shops / collision centers this week. I think I posted here about being hit on my way to work Monday morning. Minor damage to my Cadillac, but has to be fixed. I was apparently in the other driver’s blind spot when he decided that he needed to make a left turn, so …

My insurance company, USAA has authorized the repairs, no deductible as the other driver was at fault. And they sent me a list of their authorized repair facilities here in my area. I can use any repair facility, but if I use one of their authorized facilities I can just drop off the car and not have to deal with estimates and that whole ball game.

But… (you knew there was going to be a “but”, right?)

Due to the recent flooding here in the greater Houston area, all repair facilities are backed up. Most of them on the list are telling me a minimum of 2 weeks before they can get to me. I found one that will take me in next Monday, the 16th, so I jumped on that one.

USAA has also agreed to spring for a rental car starting now, not when the car goes in the shop. This due to the right front headlight being out, so that I can’t drive the car at night. So today I called Enterprise (the anointed rental car vendor for USAA). Boy, those people are no fun to deal with. None. At all. They have me in the system, I am preapproved, but they can’t tell me what rental car I can get. They know that USAA is good for $39.50 per day, but they’re not at all sure what I can get for that rate.

Seems they have one rate for individuals, and another rate for insurance companies, and the lady I spoke with on the phone couldn’t tell me what I could get. She would “get back to me on that”. Which was about 6 hours ago, and hasn’t happened.

for $40/day you should be getting a premium car, but they would rather just give you a "standard" or mid/full size if you'll accept it. Heck, they'd probably put you in a Chevy Spark if they could get away with it.

andres3

My Book:

Traffic Calming Measures = poor traffic engineering.

I just cut to the chase with my summaries. I believe traffic engineering should exist to facilitate maximum safe speed and flow of traffic, not to purposely create congestion via slow speed limits, narrow lanes, median dividers that vary in width, or just plain have less lanes available when it is not justified or warranted.

With all the parking spaces taken up by carpool green electric spots, and then blue ADA, you end up causing a lot more pollution from people driving around in circles and idling waiting for an open parking space.

tommister2

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

1G6AX5SX6E019408

@graphicguy
I had asked you about it and suggested doing a check to see where the car went
after it was turned back to the dealer/Cadillac with all those problems.

There's a digit missing within the last seven digits.
1G6AX5SX6E019408 compared to
1G6DV1EP1E0124268 for a VIN for another 2014 Cadillac CTS at Cadillac/Suburu.

Imid...sorry, I thought it was qbrozen who asked.

You're right. a digit was missing.

Try

1G6AX5SX6E0194308

OMG if you google that VIN it looks like the car wound up at a GM dealer in Wisconsin. On to the next poor soul...

abacomike

I Googled that VIN and the dealer in Wisconsin advertises the car as "Black Raven" in color. I thought GG's car was red or am I mistaken?

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

@driver100
It looks like the front ends on the 58 Dodges are the same but is the body shorter as a Plymouth doghouse and on back?

driver100 said:

Some Dodges look like the red one below, and some looked like a Plymouth. Not sure why they did it that way. My guess is the red model seems to be offered as a 2 door hardtop or convertible, maybe the Plymouth copy was to give Dodge a cheap and easy way to offer a 4 door model.

The ones with the Plymouth bodies are for Canada and the ones with the wedge-shaped tailfins are the USA model.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29527
Trigger alert: this one uses facebook
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.889824791084586.1073741830.867898849943847&type=3

Imid, I think that is partly true....maybe the Plymouth look alike was only available in Canada. But, the red one with the wedge fin was available too, our neighbor had one!

Dealer sometimes offered different models in Canada so Plymouth dealers would have similar models to Dodge dealers. For example Ford dealers also sold Mercury's, so the Meteor dealer (it was a Canadian Ford) offered an upscale Monarch (Canadian Mercury). I think it has to do with this.

1960 Meteor:

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

Interesting. CARFAX shows more miles and two owners.

Now that makes the story even more interesting. Was the second owner a Nigerian Prince?

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

If GG thought that 98' Cobra was pricey he'd have a heart attack at this one:



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5580986335.html

That's stupid money, given what I can buy a recent GT that will outperform that Cobra in every way.

And seeing that in all probability the seller is a scammer makes it REALLY overpriced.

Mr_Shiftright

Saukville, WI, and it has a new buyer. I suppose with the branded title he got a good deal?

stickguy

are you sure it is branded? I thought Caddy just treated it as a trade in to brush it under the rug. I assume they just sent it to the shop, fixed it as best as they could, and sent it to auction.

anyone got carfax access to pull one on it? I would love to see what is on there.

Mr_Shiftright

I pulled it. It says "Branded Title/Buyback Lemon" in bright red letters.

Then further down, it says, again in red, two additional times:

MANUFACTURER BUYBACK
OR LEMON REPORTED

two entries: 12/8/15 and again on 3/1/16


There's also a notation under "Title History" that says: "Alert. Problem found!"

Other than that, just a bunch of "check ups" at the dealership. No really useful information.

stickguy

thanks. I have more respect for GM at least. I thought from the way GG described it, they were playing a shell game.

why anyone would buy this, is beyond me.

also shows the limitation of what can get reported for repair work.

imidazol97

The Ohio record shows it is owned by GM and title is inactive. It is labelled "buyback."
10850 miles and it went to WI. @graphicguy was that 10850 lots of miles beyond when
you relinquished the car to the local dealer?

So some of those buyback vehicles go to training centers, such as out local joint area vocation schools auto mechanics area. I toured there 15 years ago and they had some relatively new vehicles that had been donated by manufacturers. That might explain why @GG's Caddy went to WI.

But perhaps someone here knows if GM has a center in WI where they analyze problematic vehicles to learn what went wrong. Online someone said cars go to Warren (MI) where GM has a lot of facilities.


Property Information
Type: Vehicle VIN: 1G6AX5SX6E0194308 Year: 2014 Make: CADILLAC Model: -- Body Type: Four Door

Current Title Information
Title Number: 2513447192 Title Status: Inactive Owner Name: GENERAL MOTORS LLC Number of Owners: 1

Issue Date: 12/8/2015 Title Type: Original Lien 1: Lien 1 Cancel Date:

Control Number: 131182945 Lien 2: Lien 2 Cancel Date:

Mileage: 10850 Mileage Brand: Actual Brand 1: Buyback Vehicle Brand 2: Brand 3:

Inactive Reason: Surrender Out of State Surrender to State: WI

Total Purchase Price: $0.00 Resides in County: 31


History
Title Number Issue Date Title Type Title Status Inactive Reason Mileage Mileage Brand Mileage Justify Owner Name

3107477369 3/10/2015 Original Inactive Transferred Out of County 3100 Actual THOMSON MACCONNELL CADILLAC INC

stickguy

looked like it was for sale at a dealer though. That seems odd, that GM would want to mess around retailing lemons again.

My logic would say take it back to the engineering HQ, and deconstruct to figure out where all the problems came from.

driver100

Good research guys....I am impressed. If I need some detective work done I will know where to go.
I thought for sure they would sell it at auction....kind of get rid of it but do it so they won't be responsible.
Donating it to a school would be perfect, get the write off, and illuminates the chance someone buys it, stalls in the middle of a left turn, and sues GM.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm showing a new owner on March 1, with 11,776 on the odometer.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

3107477369 3/10/2015 Original Inactive Transferred Out of County 3100 Actual THOMSON MACCONNELL CADILLAC INC

This entry is interesting. That is GG's original selling dealer. I wonder what "Transferred Out of County" signifies?

cdnpinhead

It's a "transparent" environment buying a car, especially a used one, no?

Some people ask how I came to my rather miserable attitude regarding life in general and some people in particular.

This is how.

stickguy

I assume the transfer note has to do with registering/taxation (rate?). But that is just my guess.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'm showing a new owner on March 1, with 11,776 on the odometer.

Better tell the new owner to buy one of those optional warranty programs.

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

I have known several people in my lifetime whom I thought were one digit short. LOL

I deal with people who are one digit short all the time, no wait, I wish I deal with people one digit short. I deal daily with people that are several digits short.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

Good research guys....I am impressed. If I need some detective work done I will know where to go.
I thought for sure they would sell it at auction....kind of get rid of it but do it so they won't be responsible.
Donating it to a school would be perfect, get the write off, and illuminates the chance someone buys it, stalls in the middle of a left turn, and sues GM.

What's odd is that it doesn't show a line item in history that appears to be a customer title--GG's titling the vehicle.

The transfer out of county seems to be an artifact of time when title offices were on county-by-county basis in Ohio. Now everything is electronic and it's all one system of records.

Here's a fuller record on a J car.

imidazol97

@graphicguy @driver100

OMG
The VIN from GG's Cadillac is alive and well in Wisconsin!
It appears to be titled to a retail owner.

dino001

andres3 said:

My Book:
Traffic Calming Measures = poor traffic engineering.
I just cut to the chase with my summaries. I believe traffic engineering should exist to facilitate maximum safe speed and flow of traffic, not to purposely create congestion via slow speed limits, narrow lanes, median dividers that vary in width, or just plain have less lanes available when it is not justified or warranted.

You are correct. However, those things are usually put by engineers not to spite the drivers, but because there is something really dangerous down the road that could not be solved for various reasons - the most common is lack of right-of-way, i.e. lack of ability to acquire new land. Often there is a vocal "community activist" group (I despise those) who sees improvements as a threat to their way of life. This is very common in Florida coastal and island communities. Bunch of "I was here first" people, invoking environmental BS to stop any improvement project, like replacement of the old bridge with one with featuring modern roadway section (proper shoulders, etc.). Another time there is a place known for people crossing busy street, but local property owners would go on a violent rampage if anybody attempted to build a non-collision pedestrian crossing.

Bottom line - there are sometimes real reasons, often political (not the politician, just local community) that prohibit best solutions. Moreover, you are not the only user of the space around you. Your view of road being A to B as fast as possible is valid, but only to extent of that road colliding with needs of people, businesses living around that road. Their interests are important, too and have to be respected in the process.

Perhaps if I came and designed that great five-lane highway that would solve all problems in your city and improve lives of tens of thousands of people, but having a small downside of being located 100 yards from your house, you may change your tune very quickly.

BTW, I'm writing this, because I'm close to those problems - I design bridges. I'm not involved directly in community hearings and coordination for road improvements (I just design the structures based on already given criteria), but several of my colleagues are, so I'm close to those stories. You would not believe the stuff that's brought up during those meetings.

abacomike

@dino001

I'll send you my dental X-rays to review so you can advise me if I need "bridge work" since you design bridges! 

graphicguy

Great detective work, indeed. Some answers....

Mike, it was indeed black.
I think it had around 8,500 miles on it when the buy back occurred. Kind of interested what they other miles put on it were for, testing? Who knows!
Curious about the report about a lien. I didn't have a lien on the car.

Interesting that it ended up in WI.

Selling dealer is correct. Looks like the servicing dealer wanted nothing to do with it, as they aren't listed anywhere.

imid, et al.....thanks for looking all this up. Interesting to see what became of it.

imidazol97

The lien is in Wi through Bank of America.

isellhondas

imidazol97 said:

@driver100
It looks like the front ends on the 58 Dodges are the same but is the body shorter as a Plymouth doghouse and on back?

driver100 said:

Could that Dodge/Plymouth be a Canadian model? They did some strange things back in the 50's 60's!

Still trying to figure out how some people think fender skirts and continental kits don't ruin the looks of an otherwise nice car!

abacomike

Just received my copy of STAR MAGAZINE which is a very high quality publication of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America.  I believe it is published every 2-3 months.  A major part of this issue was devoted to an in-depth preview as well as review of the 2017 E Class introduction scheduled for release at dealerships in mid June (next month).  

The 4 page article starts off with a boast about this new E Class being the most technologically advanced vehicle on the road today.  The list of new technologies is quite awesome topped off by something called "Drive Pilot".  It uses stereo cameras and radar to maintain speed, slow to the speed of the car in front of you, and follow the car in front of you at speeds up to 130 mph.  A double pull on the cruise control lever will initiate the system which will, without further input from the driver, create an autonomous moving vehicle, adjusting steering, braking and acceleration based upon road conditions fed to the computer by 8 cameras and a multitude of radar sensors around the vehicle.  

There are 2 different in-dash instrument clusters available - one traditional and the optional one that is digital.  The center dash screen is 12" wide with optional multi-view settings.  The digital cluster can be customized through the settings menu to add instrument readings, a mini GPS map, etc.

The article explains why the E300 will have only one engine offered for the first 6 months - a single turbo 4 cylinder - 241 hp w/ 267 ft lbs of torque.  The reason was because of EPA standards for the whole line.  In December, an E43 and an E63 will be available as AMG models (396 hp bi-turbo V6 and the big V8 twin turbo).

If the computer senses that you have fallen asleep, loud alerts are sounded.  If the driver does not respond to the alerts, the car slows to a full stop.  

I am anxious to test drive this car next month, but I have a feeling it will be under-powered.  We shall see.

jpp75

28firefighter said:

On Sirius, I actually like the programming and listen to Howard Stern all the time (via my Dad's account). However the audio quality is absolutely awful, particularly compared with HD radio. The trial on the GTI expires in a couple weeks and I'll let it lapse. 

I completely agree, the audio quality is horrible but I do enjoy the programming. We only have 1 HD station here, I let mine lapse on the Touareg but am thinking about signing up again.

andres3

stickguy said:

thanks. I have more respect for GM at least. I thought from the way GG described it, they were playing a shell game.

why anyone would buy this, is beyond me.

also shows the limitation of what can get reported for repair work.

I'd buy it! For about a $2.50, I might go up to $4.50, but you can get 2 quarter pounders at Mc'D's for $5 so I think that's my best offer

Mr_Shiftright

Just got the MINI back from the shop. We did brakes and rotors on all 4, given they were wafer-thin (all four sets of pads under 1 mm, and rotors all un-turnable). I squeezed every last Drop of Stop out of 'em!

Also did the serpentine belt, an important maintenance item on a supercharged Mini, brake fluid flush, tire rotation, oil, air and cabin filter, welded up a bracket on the exhuast, and some spark plugs. Came out to $800, not bad for California and not bad for a Mini.

So if/when I sell it, I'll ask a little more for it. I couldn't sell a car with brakes like that--I wouldn't sleep at night.

andres3

jpp5862 said:

28firefighter said:

On Sirius, I actually like the programming and listen to Howard Stern all the time (via my Dad's account). However the audio quality is absolutely awful, particularly compared with HD radio. The trial on the GTI expires in a couple weeks and I'll let it lapse. 

I completely agree, the audio quality is horrible but I do enjoy the programming. We only have 1 HD station here, I let mine lapse on the Touareg but am thinking about signing up again.

I think Sirius audio quality is pretty darn poor myself too. However, I will say that the new TTS has a far superior sound to the S4 even though they both had the Bang & Olufsen systems. I'll have to play a CD if I still can and see if it is a better satellite receiver, or simply just significantly upgraded speakers and amplifiers.

stever

Mr_Shiftright said:

Just got the MINI back from the shop. We did brakes and rotors on all 4, given they were wafer-thin (all four sets of pads under 1 mm, and rotors all un-turnable). I squeezed every last Drop of Stop out of 'em!

Also did the serpentine belt, an important maintenance item on a supercharged Mini, brake fluid flush, tire rotation, oil, air and cabin filter, welded up a bracket on the exhuast, and some spark plugs. Came out to $800, not bad for California and not bad for a Mini.

So if/when I sell it, I'll ask a little more for it. I couldn't sell a car with brakes like that--I wouldn't sleep at night.

Maybe you can bring it over next week for a test drive....

stickguy

that is pretty cheap for all that no matter where you are. Dealer would have probably hit you for close to 2K for all that.

explorerx4

@Mr_Shiftright,
$800 sounds like a bargain. Did you have to wash some dishes or clean some windows too?

oldfarmer50

Is it just me?

When that bank robbers Prius commercial first came out I found it really stupid and juvenile. Now that they are beating it into the ground I find it actually offensive.

Anybody else?

nelsonf

I think "celebrating" criminals is a bit of an odd advertising campaign.

verdugo

oldfarmer50 said:

Is it just me?

When that bank robbers Prius commercial first came out I found it really stupid and juvenile. Now that they are beating it into the ground I find it actually offensive.

Anybody else?

Not just you. Pretty stupid, IMHO.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

States get a LOT of tax revenue, over and over and over again, on just one car. Doesn't seem right, does it?

Lots of things don't seem right when the government is involved:
Gambling is ok if the government is involved.
No proof red light cameras cut down on accidents, but the government can make lots of money from them.

By the way, I read about a way that really cuts down on traffic light corner accidents, but you can't generate money from it. One is to have longer amber lights...just need 2 or 3 extra seconds, and the second is to have a red light in both directions for an extra two seconds. Those two things actually make a big difference.

I think most studies that haven't been corrupted or doctored show that red light cameras actually increase accidents, rather than reduce them. Also, in actuality, as little as 1 second extra yellow light time is plenty to drastically reduce red light running and make intersections safer. Also, drivers should be trained to only go forward on green when it is safe to do so; not just blindly go when the light turns green.

Some NMA members recently got a Philadelphia Traffic Engineer (PE) to admit the reason they added lots of wide bike lanes wasn't due to the number of bicyclists, but to slow people down with purposely poor traffic engineering.

I'm with the NMA on this issue, bicyclists should thank motorists for the roads and bike lanes the car and fuel taxes pay for. In other words, bicyclists are leeches on the roadways they don't pay for.

You wouldn't have a link to that would you? If true that would be a shocking admission.

If he has it, it's likely not what the NMA promotes it as.

Actually it's pretty close. Here in Albany they are proposing restricting motor vehicle lanes in favor of bikes which will cause tremendous headaches for drivers.

I've always suspected that some of the "safety" measures politicians are taking is really an agenda to harass drivers. Part of a larger campaign against hydrocarbon energy.

I take it you actually read the articles I linked

ON another topic:

You can bet your bottom dollar that insurance companies would rather not insure "driver-less" cars as long as they keep getting in an extraordinary amount of accidents; regardless of fault. Everyone knows this is due to strict adherence to the speed limit, rather than driving safely, but some people just can't accept the Soloman curve because a flawed study refutes it. Like it or not, speed limits by and large are not set for the purpose of safety in the US.

Two issues with your post. First is that self driving cars have logged a total of about 1.5 million miles on the US roads. However there were just over 3 trillion miles driven in the U.S. in 2015. To put that in perspective that 1.5 million miles represents 0.00005%of all the miles driven in the U.S. every year, or for every one mile driven by a self driving car there are over 2 million miles driven by non self driving cars. Or it takes U.S. drivers a little over 15 seconds to drive all the miles driven by self driving cars.

In short the amount of miles driven by self driving cars is so small in respect to the total number of miles driven that any statistical values that are derived have a 100% error rate.

Secondly I would like to know what is that flawed study. I looked into the Soloman curve and found a number of studies that basically refuted it simply because they couldn't replicate Solaman's findings. The studies I found found that when you remove stopped and turning vehicles the accident rate of traffic going slower than the rate of traffic is no different than that of traffic going the normal flow of traffic.

Tell me why do do you and your like only refer to a study that is almost old enough to collect social security? could it be that following studies haven't supported it?

cdnpinhead

It's popcorn and bleachers time. Party on.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

The NMA is about the most straight-shooting organization I've come across in life. The misinformation tends to come from insurance companies, government, and associated entities that profit from those two things.

You must not have come across many organizations. In situations like this I look at who is telling me that 2 plus 2 equal 5. The NMA tells me that 2 plus 2 equals 5 a lot, they tend to present one side of an argument and center on studies that support their position and ignor those that don't.

andres3 said:

The fact they published the letters of correspondence from the engineer and members word for word completely unedited in their newsletter attests to that. See for yourself; I posted a link.

I looked at that link and it does not say what you said it says.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

Actually the link that Andres linked to was a traffic engineer talking about traffic calming measures designed to reduce traffic speed when entering a more congested area which would require slower speeds. Totally different than what Andres was implying.

WRONG!

Actually no, I suggest you read your links, it does not state what you says it states.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

You are correct. However, those things are usually put by engineers not to spite the drivers, but because there is something really dangerous down the road that could not be solved for various reasons - the most common is lack of right-of-way, i.e. lack of ability to acquire new land. Often there is a vocal "community activist" group (I despise those) who sees improvements as a threat to their way of life. This is very common in Florida coastal and island communities. Bunch of "I was here first" people, invoking environmental BS to stop any improvement project, like replacement of the old bridge with one with featuring modern roadway section (proper shoulders, etc.). Another time there is a place known for people crossing busy street, but local property owners would go on a violent rampage if anybody attempted to build a non-collision pedestrian crossing.

There is a point near me where two interstate highways intersect. There is a frontage road (commercial properties on the frontage road) that follows one of those interstates almost to the point where the interstates intersect, it then turns and terminates in a subdivision. Or at least it did until they built a shopping area and connected the road. Now you can travel along the frontage road along one of the interstates make the turn go through a short residential area and follow parallel along the other interstate.

Now during rush hour traffic on the interstates backs up and it gets very backed up going from one interstate to the other. Because of this people started to try to shave time off their commute by going down frontage road and then going through the residential and then the retail area. However people doing this never slowed down going past the houses. In order to discourage this and slow down the traffic in the residential area they put in a series of speed bumps.