Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

roadburner · May 2016

My Mazda and my BMW track toys cost about the same to maintain, but in each case I used synthetic oil and changed the transmission/transaxle/differential oils every 30k-60k miles.

henryn · May 2016

I finally got into a rental car last night. And I managed to get into something that I wanted to evaluate anyway, so sometimes things do work out.

I am now driving around in a 2016 Chrysler Town and Country minivan. First impressions are basically good. Judging by the inspection sticker, this was placed in service in November of 2015, and presently has 12,300 miles. It was unbelievably dirty, so I stopped by the coin operated car wash on the way home. The love bugs swarmed here at the end of April, and no one has cleaned it since then. Which means the paint is now damaged, but I was able to get the windshield and the headlight lenses scrubbed clean so that I can see.

There is no center console forcing my right knee into an upright position, so that is a very good thing. I like the upright sitting position, and there is plenty of headroom. Forward vision is very good, I like the short, slanted down hood. That makes it fairly easy to park. It is long, not as long as my truck, but longer than my DTS, so I have to be careful on the spiral ramp in the parking garage.

The performance is good. Not as good as my truck (twin turbo V6), but about equal to the DTS with the V8. Certainly much better than some of the 4 cylinders I have driven recently (Honda CR-V, Kia Soul).

This is the first time I have dealt with a Uconnect system. Much closer to the Ford Sync than what you see in Chevys and Buicks. I plugged in a flash drive, and absolutely could not find the playlists. A quick search on Google, and you have to use a voice command, much like the Ford. And very different from the way Chevy and Buick handle playlists, which I prefer.

And speaking of sound, the stereo is fairly good. There is very obviously a subwoofer somewhere in there, I can feel it when I crank up the volume. But the acoustics are a bit strange. It does not sound like a car stereo, this is essentially a big box inside, and you can tell that.

I suspect anyone with long legs would dislike this minivan. I have a long torso and short legs (6’2” with 31” inseam), and the driver’s seat does not go back quite as far as I would like. I think I’m going to be okay with it, but anyone with a 33 or 34 inch inseam would probably really dislike this seat.

And the ride is a bit rougher than I expected. Not terrible, but the potholes and expansion seams are much more noticeable than my truck or the DTS.

andres3 · May 2016

thebean said:
@andres3, I think my comment was a little harsh. I paid those higher maintenance charges for the two Mercedes I had in the late 90's. I enjoyed those cars, but after a while, I came to value quality over most everything in a car. But, I realize everyone is different, which is why they sell a lot of different brands. I'm sorry if I sounded snarky.

No problem.

I chose the '03 Honda Accord in large part as it promised to be the exact opposite of my former Dodge Neon in terms of reliability. After enduring the Chyrsler/Dodge ownership experience, I needed the antidote to that customer experience. Honda was the answer and the right medicine. Quality/Reliability/Durability were of the utmost importance to me at the time.

I took a slight gamble on Audi in '06 (they were already showing signs of attention to quality by that point), and it paid off (and like Honda, Audi stood behind the car for me when a couple things did go wrong). Honda also didn't make a sporty hatch anymore. Audi was smart to make those moves to stand behind the few trouble-prone parts, because I'd likely have not continued to buy 2 more Audi's had they not done that on the A3. I'd probably be in a BMW had Audi shunned me way back when.

As to Mercedes, I'm not sure I can ever get over the fact they thought it was a good idea to merge with Chrysler. That kind of bad judgment is inexcusable and unforgivable; at least for a few decades.

henryn · May 2016

andres3 said:

henryn said:
I got the Cadillac into the shop this morning, Caliber Collision Center. No problem with that. But no rental car. The Enterprise office on site had no rental cars available. There is also a Hertz office there, with no rental cars, but that wouldn’t have helped me anyway, my insurance company only does business with Enterprise.

There were two customers ahead of me with Enterprise. Very irate, I might add. The poor guy working for Enterprise kept calling his “main office”, and getting the run around. The best I could tell, the main office was waiting for cars to be turned in, so they could be sent out to all of the waiting customers at the “branch offices”.

I asked the poor guy how long the overall waiting line was, and he had no idea. He offered to drive the 3 of use over to the main office so we could wait there. But I had a better idea, I called a taxi and went to work.

Now I’m trying to get in touch with my insurance company to see if they will reimburse me the $34 for the taxi ride. And before you ask, Uber is not operating in Houston right now, big controversy over fingerprint checks.
Ahhh, Caliber Collision, to call them the McDonald's of body shops is a compliment to them, and a disservice to McDonalds.

I suppose with a 10 year old car it doesn't matter much. However, I'd rather drive my car into a lake without being caught on video than risk taking another car to Caliber Collision.

My Cadillac is very pretty, great paint, very shiny. And only 40k miles. So yes, the quality of the repairs is going to matter. I have no experience with Caliber Collision, so wouldn't venture an opinion at this point in time. My insurance company for the past 35 years (USAA) gave me a list of approved repair centers. If I go with one of those, all I have to do is drop off the car, no fooling around with estimates and approvals and all of that malarkey. And all repairs are guaranteed for as long as I own the car.

Previous experience has shown that if I am not happy with the quality of the repairs, USAA will make it right. Period. Whatever it takes. There is a reason that 92% of USAA customers plan to stay for life, and after 35 years as a customer, I can testify to that.

I'm waiting right now to hear the verdict on the car. Despite the relatively minor damage, there is a small but definite chance that the car may be declared a "total".

I did hear from the other insurance company, they have assumed liability, so that's good.

andres3 · May 2016

abacomike said:
There is a major difference in costs associated with maintaining a luxury German, British and Italian car (and other luxury brands) when compared to other makes. BMW has solved that differential by providing free maintenance for their initial warranty period (4 years or 50,000 miles).

Mercedes charges $350 for the 12-month or 10,000 mile service (called an A Service) and over $500 for their 20,000 mile or 24 month service (called a B Service). The A and B services alternate. But that's the least expensive maintenance on MB's. What about a full brake job or other wear and tear items? That's where the costs for maintenance hits hard!

Nobody ever said going fast was cheap. There might be some track rats out there that take advantage of cheap "last forever" brake pads that are not designed to make you stop fast, but to last a very long time. There are brands and shops that would market them as lifetime pads and do free replacements. I've heard of track people taking advantage of this and getting their pads replaced all the time.

I'd be afraid to do this, as in one track weekend I went through like 6 or 7 mm of OEM front pad and ruined my rotors in the process as I was scoring part of them with metal on metal contact driving home. I could have stopped a session or two sooner, when the warning lights first came on, but someone talked me into using that last 2 mm, and you only live once. Seems like the OEM pads are very soft, so they don't last that long, and they don't like hot heat much either, and they stop you OK until they get too hot. I also burned my OEM brake fluid, but this is why I now have a car that is 700 lbs lighter and should be a lot less abusive to the brake system.

Still, I've heard of reports online the TTS stock brake pads are not quite up to the task of handling 100% of the power and handling limits of the suspension and car on a track. When you get to 300 HP and up, and you know your way around a track, you are slowing down for turns from higher top speeds than a beginner track driver in a plain old A3.

andres3 · May 2016

henryn said:

andres3 said:

henryn said:
I got the Cadillac into the shop this morning, Caliber Collision Center. No problem with that. But no rental car. The Enterprise office on site had no rental cars available. There is also a Hertz office there, with no rental cars, but that wouldn’t have helped me anyway, my insurance company only does business with Enterprise.

There were two customers ahead of me with Enterprise. Very irate, I might add. The poor guy working for Enterprise kept calling his “main office”, and getting the run around. The best I could tell, the main office was waiting for cars to be turned in, so they could be sent out to all of the waiting customers at the “branch offices”.

I asked the poor guy how long the overall waiting line was, and he had no idea. He offered to drive the 3 of use over to the main office so we could wait there. But I had a better idea, I called a taxi and went to work.

Now I’m trying to get in touch with my insurance company to see if they will reimburse me the $34 for the taxi ride. And before you ask, Uber is not operating in Houston right now, big controversy over fingerprint checks.
Ahhh, Caliber Collision, to call them the McDonald's of body shops is a compliment to them, and a disservice to McDonalds.

I suppose with a 10 year old car it doesn't matter much. However, I'd rather drive my car into a lake without being caught on video than risk taking another car to Caliber Collision.
My Cadillac is very pretty, great paint, very shiny. And only 40k miles. So yes, the quality of the repairs is going to matter. I have no experience with Caliber Collision, so wouldn't venture an opinion at this point in time. My insurance company for the past 35 years (USAA) gave me a list of approved repair centers. If I go with one of those, all I have to do is drop off the car, no fooling around with estimates and approvals and all of that malarkey. And all repairs are guaranteed for as long as I own the car.

Previous experience has shown that if I am not happy with the quality of the repairs, USAA will make it right. Period. Whatever it takes. There is a reason that 92% of USAA customers plan to stay for life, and after 35 years as a customer, I can testify to that.

I'm waiting right now to hear the verdict on the car. Despite the relatively minor damage, there is a small but definite chance that the car may be declared a "total".

I did hear from the other insurance company, they have assumed liability, so that's good.

I've heard nothing but great things about USAA. I wish I could join them!

Doesn't change the fact they might overlook and "approve" shops without much discretion, insight, or qualification. I'm pretty sure Audi didn't "un-certify" the shop that repaired my Audi, and I had photographic evidence sent to them of the terrible job they did the first couple times around. They kept taking the car back and "supposedly making it right," but do you really want to have to drop off your car 4 times even if they do cover the rental car every time? How many times do you want to hear "your car's ready," only to see that they are trying to get away with shoddy workmanship with fingers crossed you'll give up, get tired, and go away.

Could it just be a poorly managed and poorly hired poorly skilled shop? Certainly. I'm certain some Caliber Collision centers are better than others simply due to team dynamics, morale, culture, and I shutter to think that any could be worse than the one I went to. Maybe it's a southern border thing, as they are probably paying their employees only $10/hour or less under the table.

If I were you I'd go to another "approved" shop, however, if you insist, at least ask to look at finished or nearly finished vehicles they have repaired recently that are just about ready for pickup, or are ready for pickup. If you are satisfied, then move ahead, if not, tread carefully.

jmonroe · May 2016

When Mrs. j's 2012 Subie 6 cyl. had it's last full synthetic oil change a few weeks ago (this is when the salesman wanted to buy the car) it was the 5 th full synthetic oil change even though the mileage was less than 25K and still is.

Subaru recommends the first oil change on that car to be performed at 3K miles. I had it changed at just under 2K miles. Then an oil change interval of no more than 7500 miles with full synthetic after that. So, I should be OK with my interval. Of course I should have been OK with the oil change interval on her '05 Hyundai XG 350 when that engine blew up with just under 43K miles but as all the regulars know I had a "documentation error" with my oil change log sheet. That should not happen with the Subie because the dealer has been doing all of the oil changes on that car.

FWIW, I had a $25 off oil change email coupon from the dealer on the last Subie oil change, therefore, that oil change only cost me around $40 including tax. So, the $80 number is higher than what I have been paying at the dealer at regular price for a full synthetic oil change with filter.

jmonroe

thebean · May 2016

suydam said:

Honda doesn't use synthetic oil.

I do in my 2015 Accord. Plus, my 2002 Civic had nothing but synthetic after the break-in oil.

abacomike · May 2016

@andres3 said:

"As to Mercedes, I'm not sure I can ever get over the fact they thought it was a good idea to merge with Chrysler. That kind of bad judgment is inexcusable and unforgivable; at least for a few decades."

Andres, there are many examples of consumers swearing off certain manufacturer's products because of either a bad experience with their cars/SUVs or some other issues with products or the company itself. I swore off BMW back in 2008 because of two bad 535i's (both 2008's). I won't go into the specifics because it is unimportant, however I have gotten over my hatred of BMW and could conceivably buy one in the future. I always feel that things improve in any corporate environment after 5-10 years. But your comment about Mercedes-Benz's judgment being inexcusable and unforgivable at least for "a few decades"(20-30 years) is a little over the top, don't you think? I don't remain upset or angry at anyone or anything for 1/3 of a lifetime!

I agree with your comment - Mercedes-Benz made some bad decisions and their corporate structure suffered tremendously because of it. But things change - much quicker/faster than 20-30 years. Good grief, I would give a stray dog a second chance or a felon coming out of prison - but I sure wouldn't wait 20-30 years to be magnanimous about the situation. I know many Americans who would never buy a German or Italian or Japanese automobile because of World War II and the Axis Powers. And this hatred of anything built by an "X" Axis Power stays with them for awhile - but those same people are now driving VW's, Audi's, MB's, BMW's, Porsche's etc.

I say this not because I respect the Mercedes-Benz product, but rather because I am a realist. Same was/is true for BMW and Audi (I had two bad experiences with Audi in the 80's, but would still consider an Audi in the future). THINGS CHANGE all the time and are in flux constantly.

You are more than welcome to not excuse or forgive Mercedes-Benz for their Chrysler venture - for 20-30 years if you like - but I believe you will find that if an opportunity should ever present itself whereby you could get into a Mercedes-Benz for an unbelievable price and you found the vehicle enticing, that you will most likely "forgive", but probably not "forget"!

andres3 · May 2016

jmonroe said:
When Mrs. j's 2012 Subie 6 cyl. had it's last full synthetic oil change a few weeks ago (this is when the salesman wanted to buy the car) it was the 5 th full synthetic oil change even though the mileage was less than 25K and still is.

Subaru recommends the first oil change on that car to be performed at 3K miles. I had it changed at just under 2K miles. Then an oil change interval of no more than 7500 miles with full synthetic after that. So, I should be OK with my interval. Of course I should have been OK with the oil change interval on her '05 Hyundai XG 350 when that engine blew up with just under 43K miles but as all the regulars know I had a "documentation error" with my oil change log sheet. That should not happen with the Subie because the dealer has been doing all of the oil changes on that car.

FWIW, I had a $25 off oil change email coupon from the dealer on the last Subie oil change, therefore, that oil change only cost me around $40 including tax. So, the $80 number is higher than what I have been paying at the dealer at regular price for a full synthetic oil change with filter.

jmonroe

What was the end result of the "documentation error" fight with Hyundai? Did you overcome their grasping at straws excuses to avoid standing behind the product, or did they win the battle in the end?

jmonroe · May 2016

'andres3' said:

What was the end result of the "documentation error" fight with Hyundai? Did you overcome their grasping at straws excuses to avoid standing behind the product, or did they win the battle in the end?
_____________________________________________________________________________

I guess you can say there were two endings to this saga.

(1) The dealer never made the repair under warranty. So, I ate about a 3K dollar loss.

(2) Since I was working at the time and when fellow employees heard about my situation, I'd say about 5 of them who were working on deals at this dealership went elsewhere. I even had an uncle who told the dealer after he got a call about buying another Hyundai from them that he would not buy from them again. This prompted a call from the sales manager telling me that if I bought another Hyundai from them he would see to it that I got my 3K back in the deal. This was in 2012.

I never bought another car from them, but in a way I got what I wanted via them suffering a few lost sales that I know I had a hand in. Am I carrying a grudge today ? Yeah, I think so because when I bought my 2015 Genny last May, I went to Fairfax VA to get it. The funny part of this is when I had to take the 2015 Genny to this dealer because the original Hankook tires had to be replaced, the service advisor recognized me and said, "you really got screwed with that XG 350. You won't have to deal with that service manager or GM anymore because they are both gone now". Did I have a hand in that ? Probably not but I can't say I feel bad about it either.

jmonroe

nyccarguy · May 2016

@andres3 - "I am afraid you have awoken a sleeping giant."

henryn · May 2016

andres3 said:

henryn said:

andres3 said:

henryn said:
I got the Cadillac into the shop this morning, Caliber Collision Center. No problem with that. But no rental car. The Enterprise office on site had no rental cars available. There is also a Hertz office there, with no rental cars, but that wouldn’t have helped me anyway, my insurance company only does business with Enterprise.

There were two customers ahead of me with Enterprise. Very irate, I might add. The poor guy working for Enterprise kept calling his “main office”, and getting the run around. The best I could tell, the main office was waiting for cars to be turned in, so they could be sent out to all of the waiting customers at the “branch offices”.

I asked the poor guy how long the overall waiting line was, and he had no idea. He offered to drive the 3 of use over to the main office so we could wait there. But I had a better idea, I called a taxi and went to work.

Now I’m trying to get in touch with my insurance company to see if they will reimburse me the $34 for the taxi ride. And before you ask, Uber is not operating in Houston right now, big controversy over fingerprint checks.
Ahhh, Caliber Collision, to call them the McDonald's of body shops is a compliment to them, and a disservice to McDonalds.

I suppose with a 10 year old car it doesn't matter much. However, I'd rather drive my car into a lake without being caught on video than risk taking another car to Caliber Collision.
My Cadillac is very pretty, great paint, very shiny. And only 40k miles. So yes, the quality of the repairs is going to matter. I have no experience with Caliber Collision, so wouldn't venture an opinion at this point in time. My insurance company for the past 35 years (USAA) gave me a list of approved repair centers. If I go with one of those, all I have to do is drop off the car, no fooling around with estimates and approvals and all of that malarkey. And all repairs are guaranteed for as long as I own the car.

Previous experience has shown that if I am not happy with the quality of the repairs, USAA will make it right. Period. Whatever it takes. There is a reason that 92% of USAA customers plan to stay for life, and after 35 years as a customer, I can testify to that.

I'm waiting right now to hear the verdict on the car. Despite the relatively minor damage, there is a small but definite chance that the car may be declared a "total".

I did hear from the other insurance company, they have assumed liability, so that's good.

I've heard nothing but great things about USAA. I wish I could join them!

Doesn't change the fact they might overlook and "approve" shops without much discretion, insight, or qualification. I'm pretty sure Audi didn't "un-certify" the shop that repaired my Audi, and I had photographic evidence sent to them of the terrible job they did the first couple times around. They kept taking the car back and "supposedly making it right," but do you really want to have to drop off your car 4 times even if they do cover the rental car every time? How many times do you want to hear "your car's ready," only to see that they are trying to get away with shoddy workmanship with fingers crossed you'll give up, get tired, and go away.

Could it just be a poorly managed and poorly hired poorly skilled shop? Certainly. I'm certain some Caliber Collision centers are better than others simply due to team dynamics, morale, culture, and I shutter to think that any could be worse than the one I went to. Maybe it's a southern border thing, as they are probably paying their employees only $10/hour or less under the table.

If I were you I'd go to another "approved" shop, however, if you insist, at least ask to look at finished or nearly finished vehicles they have repaired recently that are just about ready for pickup, or are ready for pickup. If you are satisfied, then move ahead, if not, tread carefully.

Too late now, my car is in the shop. And I don't even know yet if it will be fixed or totaled. If it is repaired, but not to my satisfaction, they will keep redoing it until I'm happy, while I drive around putting miles on a rental car.

Back in the 90's, my son bought a new Camaro with a T-Top. It was a very pretty car, and he was crazy about it. While still fairly new, someone ran over him, hitting the passenger side A-pillar. The car was repaired by the body shop at the really really huge Chevy dealership where he purchased the car new. They were unable, in 3 attempts, to get that passenger door to not droop when opened. When it came out of the shop, it would work correctly. But a week or two later, droop. After the third failed repair, USAA totaled the car. And my son decided to never again own a T-Top!

stever · May 2016

@henryn, nice Grand Caravan review. I'll miss the knee room when we downsize (average height here).

I'm still nursing a grudge against Volvo, dating back to the late 70s. Totally irrational - I don't actively discourage people from buying them and I haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.

abacomike · May 2016

stever said:

@henryn, nice Grand Caravan review. I'll miss the knee room when we downsize (average height here). I'm still nursing a grudge against Volvo, dating back to the late 70s. Totally irrational - I don't actively discourage people from buying them and I haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.

We all come around, Steve, some faster than others.

imidazol97 · May 2016

stever said:
haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.

I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.

stever · May 2016

I think Ford's influence on Volvo (and Mazda) was good, when they owned part of the companies.

imidazol97 · May 2016

I've been waiting for someone to mention the Subaru recall about disconnected steering systems. 53,000 vehicles. When I first heard this I was being passed by a new Legacy which was speeding in a construction zone on the interstate. I kept watching for the car to lose control.

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/news/nissan-accused-cheating-subaru-recalls-legacy-outback-article-1.2638249

When 1 Cruze had a wheel come off there was lots of discussion about that. But none about Legacy and Outbacks?

The Cruze recall of 2500 found no others with the same broken fastener.

abacomike · May 2016

imidazol97 said:

I've been waiting for someone to mention the Subaru recall about disconnected steering systems. 53,000 vehicles. When I first heard this I was being passed by a new Legacy which was speeding in a construction zone on the interstate. I kept watching for the car to lose control. http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/news/nissan-accused-cheating-subaru-recalls-legacy-outback-article-1.2638249 When 1 Cruze had a wheel come off there was lots of discussion about that. But none about Legacy and Outbacks? The Cruze recall of 2500 found no others with the same broken fastener.

I had not been cognizant of the Suburu recalls on the two models. If Suburu is telling it's owners not to drive their vehicles until they are inspected, how in God's name is the owner supposed to get to the service department for the inspection? Is Suburu going to tow every car recalled to the servicing dealership? I doubt that. So why make that statement? Big question about that approach.

andres3 · May 2016

stever said:
I think Ford's influence on Volvo (and Mazda) was good, when they owned part of the companies.

Really?????!!!!??????

I'll bite, how come? What was the positive influence? My main memory is Mazda using the gutless slow V6 from Ford.

I'd imagine people like @imidazol97 that hold a grudge against Ford would be turned off to Volvo and Mazda by association at the time they were owned by Ford. My main beef with Ford is my older cousin reported a truck killing its engine between 36,000 and 40,000 miles with no help from Ford back when power-train warranties were a short 3/36.

[Deleted User] · May 2016

abacomike said:

I had not been cognizant of the Suburu recalls on the two models. If Suburu is telling it's owners not to drive their vehicles until they are inspected, how in God's name is the owner supposed to get to the service department for the inspection? Is Suburu going to tow every car recalled to the servicing dealership? I doubt that. So why make that statement? Big question about that approach.

Hey Mike! I read that Subaru will indeed send a flat bed and provide a loaner vehicle to all impacted owners. I believe the defect is in the column, and I'm guessing it's related to the steer-by-wire system.

Edit: my understanding is no owner has had anything serious happen and that Subaru is being super proactive about the recall. I just read about it today and learned that one owner reported problems with steering, had the vehicle towed, and after inspection Subaru is jumping the gun to inspect all the vehicles made during that same time period.

abacomike · May 2016

tyguy said:

imidazol97 said:

I've been waiting for someone to mention the Subaru recall about disconnected steering systems. 53,000 vehicles. When I first heard this I was being passed by a new Legacy which was speeding in a construction zone on the interstate. I kept watching for the car to lose control. http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/news/nissan-accused-cheating-subaru-recalls-legacy-outback-article-1.2638249 When 1 Cruze had a wheel come off there was lots of discussion about that. But none about Legacy and Outbacks? The Cruze recall of 2500 found no others with the same broken fastener.

I had not been cognizant of the Suburu recalls on the two models. If Suburu is telling it's owners not to drive their vehicles until they are inspected, how in God's name is the owner supposed to get to the service department for the inspection? Is Suburu going to tow every car recalled to the servicing dealership? I doubt that. So why make that statement? Big question about that approach.
Hey Mike! I read that Subaru will indeed send a flat bed and provide a loaner vehicle to all impacted owners. I believe the defect is in the column, and I'm guessing it's related to the steer-by-wire system.

That's a relief! I have more respect for Suburu now that you clarified that. Definitely a scary situation. The electric power steering on most cars today is an interesting phenomenon. I wonder if there is any data available yet in steering failures or problems in cars or vehicles with electric power steering compared to those same failures with the conventional power steering units that were belt driven w/hydraulics? Would be interesting if there were!

stever · May 2016

Mazda is relatively small @andres3 and I think Ford's money bailed them out twice. Ford helped Volvo expand their product line a good bit.

Shaky financials creates a lot of issues - even though they've made record profits the last couple of years, Mazda is still lagging in NA sales. (autonews.com)

tommister2 · May 2016

imidazol97 said:

stever said:
haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.
I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.

How long ago was this Windsor 351 issue in production?

abacomike · May 2016

tommister2 said:

haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.
I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.
How long ago was this Windsor 351 issue in production?

Sounds like a "British" or "English" Ford product with the surname "Windsor"!

imidazol97 · May 2016

Is Suburu going to tow every car recalled to the servicing dealership? I doubt that. So why make that statement? Big question about that approach.

The radio report I heard said Subaru would send a technician to inspect the car at the location to check the part in question.

abacomike · May 2016

imidazol97 said:

Is Suburu going to tow every car recalled to the servicing dealership? I doubt that. So why make that statement? Big question about that approach.

The radio report I heard said Subaru would send a technician to inspect the car at the location to check the part in question.

Thanks Imid. tyguy said they would flatbed the vehicle to the servicing dealer and provide a loaner.

Must be a serious problem if they don't want the owner of the vehicle to drive it.

Does it seem like there are more and more defects in vehicles today than in previous decades or is the increase in recalls litigiously driven? I wonder!

[Deleted User] · May 2016

imidazol97 said:

The radio report I heard said Subaru would send a technician to inspect the car at the location to check the part in question.

Right you are. Looks like they'll either flat bed it to a dealership or send a tech to you:

jalopnik.com/subaru-warns-owners-to-stop-driving-recalled-cars-1776647244

abacomike · May 2016

tyguy said:

The radio report I heard said Subaru would send a technician to inspect the car at the location to check the part in question.
Right you are. Looks like they'll either flat bed it to a dealership or send a tech to you: jalopnik.com/subaru-warns-owners-to-stop-driving-recalled-cars-1776647244

Very impressive for Suburu to do that!

jmonroe · May 2016

About the Genesis wing emblem on the hood that is shown about midway in the link that 'imid' posted about the Subie recall.

After I got the 2015 Genny I noticed that there was a slight shimmy so I went to the Firestone dealer where I have bought several Bridgestone Serenities for my old '09 Genny and for the Subie. I like this store because of the way they have treated me when I didn't get the claimed stated mileage for those tires in addition to how they go about balancing tires and they really use a torque wrench when installing tires. I paid for a lifetime balance for the original Hankook tires that were installed on the '15 Genny but that was a waste of money because it didn't solve the shimmy problem at around 40 MPH (interstate speeds of 70 or more they were fine). Two weeks later I went to the Hyundai dealer to tell them about it and I was informed that a recall for the Hankooks was being issued and I would get 4 new Continental tires as replacements for the Hankooks free of charge. So far so good.

Now you're probably wondering what this has to do with the Genesis wing hood emblem, huh? Ok, I'll tell you. When I pulled up to the Firestone store I pulled right in front of the stores large glass window. When I walked in the guy at the desk said, "is that a Bentley. We don't sell tires for Bentley's. You'll have to go to Bentley to get tires and balancing to keep your warranty valid". I assured him it was not a Bentley just a Hyundai. He now wants to see the car both inside and out since '15 is the first year of the complete makeover for the Genesis since it hit the market in '09. He kept saying how much he liked the car and "that emblem sure does look like the ones on a Bentley".

As I'm writing this I remember I've said I haven't gotten any complements on my new Genny. I guess in a way I still haven't since this guy thought it was a Bentley.

jmonroe

tjc78 · May 2016

Like you I also had an early 09. I was always being asked and complimented on it. It got more attention than any car I've ever owned.

abacomike · May 2016

jmonroe said:

About the Genesis wing emblem on the hood that is shown about midway in the link that 'imid' posted about the Subie recall. After I got the 2015 Genny I noticed that there was a slight shimmy so I went to the Firestone dealer where I have bought several Bridgestone Serenities for my old '09 Genny and for the Subie. I like this store because of the way they have treated me when I didn't get the claimed stated mileage for those tires in addition to how they go about balancing tires and they really use a torque wrench when installing tires. I paid for a lifetime balance for the original Hankook tires that were installed on the '15 Genny but that was a waste of money because it didn't solve the shimmy problem at around 40 MPH (interstate speeds of 70 or more they were fine). Two weeks later I went to the Hyundai dealer to tell them about it and I was informed that a recall for the Hankooks was being issued and I would get 4 new Continental tires as replacements for the Hankooks free of charge. So far so good. Now you're probably wondering what this has to do with the Genesis wing hood emblem, huh? Ok, I'll tell you. When I pulled up to the Firestone store I pulled right in front of the stores large glass window. When I walked in the guy at the desk said, "is that a Bentley. We don't sell tires for Bentley's. You'll have to go to Bentley to get tires and balancing to keep your warranty valid". I assured him it was not a Bentley just a Hyundai. He now wants to see the car both inside and out since '15 is the first year of the complete makeover for the Genesis since it hit the market in '09. He kept saying how much he liked the car and "that emblem sure does look like the ones on a Bentley". As I'm writing this I remember I've said I haven't gotten any complements on my new Genny. I guess in a way I still haven't since this guy thought it was a Bentley. jmonroe

Jmonroe, even though I really have not "seen" your Genesis in the "flesh", let me be the first to compliment you and you car on truly being a "knock-out"! I hope you feel better now - I don't want you to go through life without hearing a compliment about your car!

jmonroe · May 2016

abacomike said:

tommister2 said:

imidazol97 said:

stever said:
haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.
I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.

How long ago was this Windsor 351 issue in production?

Sounds like a "British" or "English" Ford product with the surname "Windsor"!

Mike why are you starting something like that? I'm sure you know that ain't correct.

The Windsor 351 was the Ford engine that Ford built in their Winsor Ontario Canadian plant. I remember back when I was in high school people thought the Winsor 351 was better than the Ford 351 that was built in Detroit just across the river from Ontario Canada. Now, 'imid' says what I heard in high school is wrong. It took a long damn time for this info to surface.

I'll bet 'driver' knows the whole story.

jmonroe

jmonroe · May 2016

Mike said:

Jmonroe, even though I really have not "seen" your Genesis in the "flesh", let me be the first to compliment you and you car on truly being a "knock-out"! I hope you feel better now - I don't want you to go through life without hearing a compliment about your car!

____________________________________________________________________________

Thanks Mike but some how it doesn't seem genuine when you have to beg for it.

jmonroe

jmonroe · May 2016

tjc78 said:
Like you I also had an early 09. I was always being asked and complimented on it. It got more attention than any car I've ever owned.

TJ:

I got complements with my '09 too but not the '15.

I guess I should have kept the '09. Even Mrs, j liked that one better but I'm sure it was because of the color (Cabernet Red Pearl). She has told me several times that the '15 with the Empire State Gray color is an "old mans color". :@

jmonroe

snakeweasel · May 2016

abacomike said:

tommister2 said:

imidazol97 said:

stever said:
haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.
I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.

How long ago was this Windsor 351 issue in production?

Sounds like a "British" or "English" Ford product with the surname "Windsor"!

Yep it is, until WWI it was known as the Ford Saxe-Coburg.

snakeweasel · May 2016

abacomike said:

Thanks Imid. tyguy said they would flatbed the vehicle to the servicing dealer and provide a loaner.

Must be a serious problem if they don't want the owner of the vehicle to drive it.

Does it seem like there are more and more defects in vehicles today than in previous decades or is the increase in recalls litigiously driven? I wonder!

I would think it is a combination of both. Cars today are more complicated As Mr. Scott said in "Star Trek III" "Aye, sir. The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." Plus we are in a litigious society especially since the airwaves are filled with lawyers telling you they can get you big bucks if you so much as stub your toe.

berri · May 2016

I always heard the 351 Windsor was inferior and more trouble prone than the Cleveland engine.

abacomike · May 2016

jmonroe said:

Mike said: Jmonroe, even though I really have not "seen" your Genesis in the "flesh", let me be the first to compliment you and you car on truly being a "knock-out"! I hope you feel better now - I don't want you to go through life without hearing a compliment about your car! ____________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Mike but some how it doesn't seem genuine when you have to beg for it. jmonroe

No matter how you got the Kudos, at least you got them. I've begged many times for things and sometimes my begging paid off - in spades!

abacomike · May 2016

jmonroe said:

tommister2 said:

haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.
I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.
How long ago was this Windsor 351 issue in production?

Sounds like a "British" or "English" Ford product with the surname "Windsor"!
Mike why are you starting something like that? I'm sure you know that ain't correct. The Windsor 351 was the Ford engine that Ford built in their Winsor Ontario Canadian plant. I remember back when I was in high school people thought the Winsor 351 was better than the Ford 351 that was built in Detroit just across the river from Ontario Canada. Now, 'imid' says what I heard in high school is wrong. It took a long damn time for this info to surface. I'll bet 'driver' knows the whole story. jmonroe

A Windsor is a Windsor, Canadian or British, no difference! Driver, what's the scoop on the Windsor 351?

nyccarguy · May 2016

My Legacy is a 2015 and not affected by the recall. The only problem I have with it is the car's power deficiency. Maybe Subaru will issue a recall and retrofit a turbocharger.

stickguy · May 2016

Bradd, is the Prelude fixed and back up and running?

roadburner · May 2016

abacomike said:

jmonroe said:

abacomike said:

tommister2 said:

imidazol97 said:

stever said:
haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.
I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.

How long ago was this Windsor 351 issue in production?

Sounds like a "British" or "English" Ford product with the surname "Windsor"!
Mike why are you starting something like that? I'm sure you know that ain't correct.

The Windsor 351 was the Ford engine that Ford built in their Winsor Ontario Canadian plant. I remember back when I was in high school people thought the Winsor 351 was better than the Ford 351 that was built in Detroit just across the river from Ontario Canada. Now, 'imid' says what I heard in high school is wrong. It took a long damn time for this info to surface.

I'll bet 'driver' knows the whole story.

jmonroe

A Windsor is a Windsor, Canadian or British, no difference! Driver, what's the scoop on the Windsor 351?

The 351W is more prevalent than the 351C(Cleveland). The 351C is much more suitable for modifying due to the free-flowing cylinder heads. In fact, the Boss 302 was essentially a 302 Windsor with 351C heads- it made a lot more power due to the heads and was an easy motor to homologate for the SCCA Trans-Am series.

stickguy · May 2016

I never understood why they made 2 completely different 351 CI V8s. Seemed like a waste.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2016

stickguy said:
I never understood why they made 2 completely different 351 CI V8s. Seemed like a waste.

Nobody seems to know for sure. The 351 CL was a short-lived engine, perhaps (some say) because it couldn't produce any low end torque and yet was fitted to vehicles that really needed low end torque applications. Some engine builders swear that the 351 CL bears too many similarities to Olds V-8s to be coincidental (and to other GM architecture as well).

The 351 CLs are getting scarce so most people build 351Ws to a higher spec.

nyccarguy · May 2016

stickguy said:
Bradd, is the Prelude fixed and back up and running?

No. I've got to follow up with the mechanic & tell him I ran into a problem on my way home the other night. I'll see if he wants to get the part for me or of he wants me to get the part. While it is over there, I'm going to have him remove the springs & struts, properly set the springs with a spring compressor, & install the Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs again. If the car still doesn't sit correctly (right now the ride height is higher than stock & uneven), he suggested i buy a set of OEM Genuine Honda Springs from a "Base" Prelude. I also have to have the oil, filter, brake fluid changed. It is almost time (no pun intended) for the 2nd Timing Belt Service (Timing Belt, Water Pump, Balance Shaft Seals...) as well so I might as well get that done to enjoy some completely worry free driving this summer.

Pilot will be paid off as of this Thursday. I've never paid off a car, how does that work? Does the DMV automatically send me the title?

abacomike · May 2016

nyccarguy said:

Bradd, is the Prelude fixed and back up and running?
No. I've got to follow up with the mechanic & tell him I ran into a problem on my way home the other night. I'll see if he wants to get the part for me or of he wants me to get the part. While it is over there, I'm going to have him remove the springs & struts, properly set the springs with a spring compressor, & install the Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs again. If the car still doesn't sit correctly (right now the ride height is higher than stock & uneven), he suggested i buy a set of OEM Genuine Honda Springs from a "Base" Prelude. I also have to have the oil, filter, brake fluid changed. It is almost time (no pun intended) for the 2nd Timing Belt Service (Timing Belt, Water Pump, Balance Shaft Seals...) as well so I might as well get that done to enjoy some completely worry free driving this summer. Pilot will be paid off as of this Thursday. I've never paid off a car, how does that work? Does the DMV automatically send me the title?

The bank holds your title. They have to show on title that the lien was satisfied and then they send you the title. If you don't receive your title from the bank or financial institution within 30 days, you need to contact the bank.

oldfarmer50 · May 2016

imidazol97 said:

stever said:
haven't snarked about anyone driving a "Ford" in years now either. I may be slowly coming around.
I still dislike Ford because they built the Windsor 351 for years and still had a problem with timing gears disintegrating early, e.g., 60,000 mi. Said I'd never own another ford and I didn't except for one that I won in the contest. Even it had problems, bad strut, broken bracket on alternator, loose bolts on rear suspension, and more.

And don't forget the exploding Pintos either.

I never liked Fords back in the day because the transmissions didn't hold up to abuse like Chryslers' did. I hope they're better these days.

How about this as a substitute:

And you thoughtPontiac was dead.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/future-cars-2017-and-beyond/?_wcsid=803D36F0164E42D5126522EAB2C8C7A9693B2250FC3391F2

oldfarmer50 · May 2016

jmonroe said:
About the Genesis wing emblem on the hood that is shown about midway in the link that 'imid' posted about the Subie recall.

After I got the 2015 Genny I noticed that there was a slight shimmy so I went to the Firestone dealer where I have bought several Bridgestone Serenities for my old '09 Genny and for the Subie. I like this store because of the way they have treated me when I didn't get the claimed stated mileage for those tires in addition to how they go about balancing tires and they really use a torque wrench when installing tires. I paid for a lifetime balance for the original Hankook tires that were installed on the '15 Genny but that was a waste of money because it didn't solve the shimmy problem at around 40 MPH (interstate speeds of 70 or more they were fine). Two weeks later I went to the Hyundai dealer to tell them about it and I was informed that a recall for the Hankooks was being issued and I would get 4 new Continental tires as replacements for the Hankooks free of charge. So far so good.

Now you're probably wondering what this has to do with the Genesis wing hood emblem, huh? Ok, I'll tell you. When I pulled up to the Firestone store I pulled right in front of the stores large glass window. When I walked in the guy at the desk said, "is that a Bentley. We don't sell tires for Bentley's. You'll have to go to Bentley to get tires and balancing to keep your warranty valid". I assured him it was not a Bentley just a Hyundai. He now wants to see the car both inside and out since '15 is the first year of the complete makeover for the Genesis since it hit the market in '09. He kept saying how much he liked the car and "that emblem sure does look like the ones on a Bentley".

As I'm writing this I remember I've said I haven't gotten any complements on my new Genny. I guess in a way I still haven't since this guy thought it was a Bentley.

jmonroe

When I first got the Eclipse somebody thought it was a Porsche. I felt complimented. Take what you can get.

oldfarmer50 · May 2016

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:
Bradd, is the Prelude fixed and back up and running?
No. I've got to follow up with the mechanic & tell him I ran into a problem on my way home the other night. I'll see if he wants to get the part for me or of he wants me to get the part. While it is over there, I'm going to have him remove the springs & struts, properly set the springs with a spring compressor, & install the Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs again. If the car still doesn't sit correctly (right now the ride height is higher than stock & uneven), he suggested i buy a set of OEM Genuine Honda Springs from a "Base" Prelude. I also have to have the oil, filter, brake fluid changed. It is almost time (no pun intended) for the 2nd Timing Belt Service (Timing Belt, Water Pump, Balance Shaft Seals...) as well so I might as well get that done to enjoy some completely worry free driving this summer.

Pilot will be paid off as of this Thursday. I've never paid off a car, how does that work? Does the DMV automatically send me the title?

The lender sends you a lien release letter. In NY you then have to take that to DMV (and pay a fee, of course) and get an amended title.

Where is your car titled? On my Eclipse I recieved a title when I boght the car but it listed a lien holder.

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