Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

Oops. Host help needed. Looks like my clunky finger poked the wrong place on my iPad. I think I flagged JWM40517 by mistake, and can't figure if I did, how to take it back!

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

80 second look at 2018 Mustang. Seems like a lot of cars are going to the digital instrument gauges that can be changed.

2018 Mustang - 80 seconds

Interesting. Like the extra hp. Not so sure about direct injection, don't want to have walnut shell blasting like the BMW. Better exhaust? I'm on board. Digital gauges, not a fan. After the Corvette. I don't trust em'. Like a sharper slope to the hood, mine really sticks out.

I wonder if that gold color will actually be offered? That's a color I would buy if I wanted attention.

stickguy

That new mustang looks sweet. Pretty sure though it would not work out all that well for me and the wife. Maybe after I hit lotto and build the car barn.

imidazol97

stickguy said:

Oops. Host help needed. Looks like my clunky finger poked the wrong place on my iPad. I think I flagged JWM40517 by mistake, and can't figure if I did, how to take it back!

I don't see any flags on his page. If you did hit a flag accidentally, just click on the same flag again and it will remove it.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

That new mustang looks sweet. Pretty sure though it would not work out all that well for me and the wife. Maybe after I hit lotto and build the car barn.

Oh come on....just buy one and tell your wife "look what I bought for YOU honey". She'll shake her head and kiss you before telling all her girlfriends about how you are sweet and mean well but just don't know how to shop for her.

That was my backup plan if my wife hadn't given me permission.

houdini1

jmonroe said:

abacomike said:

houdini1 said:

abacomike said:

houdini1 said:

Everything and more than you ever wanted to know about @graphicguy 's latest Cadillac issue:

http://gm.oemdtc.com/6969/33530-service-update-engine-ground-cable-in-contact-with-half-shaft-2016-cadillac-ats-cts#more-6969

Excellent info AB !

19,800 must have been the OTD price.

ditto

Thanks, Houdini, for posting that site.  Found a recall for 2016 BMW 740i's built in Nov-Dec, 2015 for a problem with airbags. Let my brother know but he told me his car was built in May, 2016.

I know it gets confusing here, but give the credit to AB for posting that.

Thanks, AB!   Houdini, I'll thank you anyway - I'm sure you deserve it!  

Being that I am from the Burgh area, when I see "AB", I immediately think of Antonio Brown the look-at-me selfish Steelers wide receiver that likes to draw attention to himself as evidenced by his idiotic Facebook taping in the Steelers locker room after their win over the Kansas City Chiefs this past Sunday.

You'd think those wide receivers would have learned after the Giants boat thing in Miami a few weeks ago. Some dopes in this area have said, "it will probably give him and his other wide receiver pals (seen celebrating with him) more motivation to win in New England this weekend".

I say they need more than motivation, they need better coaching and players. They have never beaten Belacheat and Brady in Foxboro but there is always a fist time. Like having all the stars and moons staying in alignment until the end of the game. I'm not betting my first born on that happening but maybe there is a Black Hole out there that none of us are aware of.

Yeah Mike, you had me confused. "AB" is a loud mouth Steelers wide receiver.

jmonroe

You mean the Steelers beat the Chiefs on Sunday? Huh, I hadn't noticed.

houdini1

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

80 second look at 2018 Mustang. Seems like a lot of cars are going to the digital instrument gauges that can be changed.

2018 Mustang - 80 seconds

Interesting. Like the extra hp. Not so sure about direct injection, don't want to have walnut shell blasting like the BMW. Better exhaust? I'm on board. Digital gauges, not a fan. After the Corvette. I don't trust em'. Like a sharper slope to the hood, mine really sticks out.

I wonder if that gold color will actually be offered? That's a color I would buy if I wanted attention.

Gold color? On my computer it looks to be school bus yellow. I am shocked you didn't buy this color ! I smell a trade !

ab348

BTW: "ab348" was my first-ever email address name from the mid-1990s. I used it when I first set up an account here way back when. Long gone now.

You can call me Greg instead of Antonio Brown if you want.

roadburner

Maybe the MagneRide dampers will make the GT into a decent track car right out of the box. One of the things that disappointed me about the GT Performance Package was that you STILL had to buy a Ford Racing suspension kit and install it to make the car perform decently on the track. Then there were the Recaros that Ford couldn't figure out how to heat(even though they managed to do it for the Fiesta ST and Focus ST/RS. Still, it would probably take a GT350 to make me ditch the 2 Series.

berri

Personally, I've always felt that sometimes Ford can put out a, shall we say - unique, interpretation and shade of a color. Perhaps this is bold. I once had a boss who used the term bold for when you did something with initiative, but that wasn't necessarily smart.

driver100

berri said:

Personally, I've always felt that sometimes Ford can put out a, shall we say - unique, interpretation and shade of a color. Perhaps this is bold. I once had a boss who used the term bold for when you did something with initiative, but that wasn't necessarily smart.

Or like my high school art teacher couldn't tell you your painting was awful....if he said "it was interesting", you knew he didn't like it.

For the record, I love that Mustang burnt yellow, or half ripe banana yellow color....but, probably for someone else, not sure I could go through with actually buying it.

PF_Flyer

stickguy said:

Oops. Host help needed. Looks like my clunky finger poked the wrong place on my iPad. I think I flagged JWM40517 by mistake, and can't figure if I did, how to take it back!

Nope, I think you're good. I don't see any flags either.

driver100

ab348 said:

jmonroe said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

A lot of cars built in Germany are not actually built by Germans. I don't think it matters at all who builds it, as long as they are well-trained. Don't worry about who built your car, worry about who manages the factory it was built in.

I'm going to disagree a little.

Management can only account for so much shoddy workmanship of the assembly line workers. Isn't this what almost did in cars from Detroit?

It's getting better but there is still that "perception".

Then we have Caddy. Ask @graphicguy if it is still a "perception" or shoddy work or bad engineering. Maybe a little of all of that.

jmonroe

Well, we had Mike's Benz that was built in Germany and they somehow forgot to install the equipment he had ordered.

Then we had a whole bunch of 2011 Sonatas that were assembled with a built-in pull to the left that couldn't be adjusted out of them.

And let's not even mention the cars from all sorts of makes with the dreaded Takata airbags.

Cars are complex beasts. In some ways it is remarkable they come to us as good as they generally do.

But, not to belabor the point, but I will, GG is batting 0 for 3 with his Caddies, not great odds.

Mikes car must have been shipped to the wrong company, mistake noted, corrected immediately. Also, new model run...heads will probably roll as that shouldn't happen if you knew how automated that Mercedes factory is - about as automated and foolproof as a car plant can be.

Sonatas....that I don't know about...should be fixable.

Takata airbags, not a fair comparison, who would think the worlds largest airbag supplier is going to screw up. They are a supplier, not a manufacturer...sometimes you rely on your suppliers.

Cars are complex and probably lots of stuff got missed years ago, but now car companies are more accountable.
But, this harness thing - I don't think something like that should have got through, and why does it take so long to fix?

And where is Mary whatshername who was going to keep all GM buyers happy? And, why is everyone standing around waiting for a part? And when is that supervisor going to get back to GG? Why would I think this is just one of those things that can happen.....when I have never heard of it happening on any other car from an $18000 Mitsu to a $300000 Bentley.?

stickguy

I'm curious about the service rep too. that should not take long. If I was him I would chase after her!

but, they are stepping up in front of apparent incompetence, but putting him indefinitely into a newer, higher end, car. And I'm sure if GG asked for a CTS instead as a loaner, he would get one. So not a good situation, but much better than telling him he is on his own!

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

Oops. Host help needed. Looks like my clunky finger poked the wrong place on my iPad. I think I flagged JWM40517 by mistake, and can't figure if I did, how to take it back!

Too late. He's been executed.

Just kidding. I didn't see any warnings on his profile, but I'll have Karen make sure it's okay.

Shifty.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

BTW: "ab348" was my first-ever email address name from the mid-1990s. I used it when I first set up an account here way back when. Long gone now.

You can call me Greg instead of Antonio Brown if you want.

But, do you line up at the wide receiver position or do you just have a loud mouth?

jmonroe

explorerx4

@oldfarmer,
Ford is coming out with a bunch of engines featuring both direct and port injection.
Toyota has used this for a long time in their 3.5 V6.

Speaking of power, I let one of my BIL's drive my F150 on Sunday.
He gave it a good workout, although I had to encourage him a bit to do that.
I couldn't see the gauges while he was driving, but at one point he said, What's the point of a 120 mph speedometer if it won't go any faster after a hundred?

Karen_S

stickguy said:

Oops. Host help needed. Looks like my clunky finger poked the wrong place on my iPad. I think I flagged JWM40517 by mistake, and can't figure if I did, how to take it back!

I don't see any flags for JWM30517, so I think you're okay.

jmonroe

houdini1 said:

jmonroe said:

abacomike said:

houdini1 said:

abacomike said:

houdini1 said:

Everything and more than you ever wanted to know about @graphicguy 's latest Cadillac issue:

http://gm.oemdtc.com/6969/33530-service-update-engine-ground-cable-in-contact-with-half-shaft-2016-cadillac-ats-cts#more-6969

Excellent info AB !

19,800 must have been the OTD price.

ditto

Thanks, Houdini, for posting that site.  Found a recall for 2016 BMW 740i's built in Nov-Dec, 2015 for a problem with airbags. Let my brother know but he told me his car was built in May, 2016.

I know it gets confusing here, but give the credit to AB for posting that.

Thanks, AB!   Houdini, I'll thank you anyway - I'm sure you deserve it!  

Being that I am from the Burgh area, when I see "AB", I immediately think of Antonio Brown the look-at-me selfish Steelers wide receiver that likes to draw attention to himself as evidenced by his idiotic Facebook taping in the Steelers locker room after their win over the Kansas City Chiefs this past Sunday.

You'd think those wide receivers would have learned after the Giants boat thing in Miami a few weeks ago. Some dopes in this area have said, "it will probably give him and his other wide receiver pals (seen celebrating with him) more motivation to win in New England this weekend".

I say they need more than motivation, they need better coaching and players. They have never beaten Belacheat and Brady in Foxboro but there is always a fist time. Like having all the stars and moons staying in alignment until the end of the game. I'm not betting my first born on that happening but maybe there is a Black Hole out there that none of us are aware of.

Yeah Mike, you had me confused. "AB" is a loud mouth Steelers wide receiver.

jmonroe

You mean the Steelers beat the Chiefs on Sunday? Huh, I hadn't noticed.

I wouldn't exactly say the Steelers "beat" them. I'd say they "kicked" them.

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1

The Steelers kicker set an NFL post-season field goal record. He made 6 field goals - indeed, all of Pittsburgh's points against the Kansas City Chiefs.

houdini1

iluvmysephia1 said:

The Steelers kicker set an NFL post-season field goal record. He made 6 field goals - indeed, all of Pittsburgh's points against the Kansas City Chiefs.

Oh, ok then, that was not a legitimate win. Too much kicking involved and probably the Ruskies had a hand in there somewhere. I definitely will not be attending jmonroe's coronation.

laurasdada

Meanwhile, The Patriots did their best to beat The Patriots. Going to the game Sunday night, emptied the kids 529 accounts to buy tickets. It was the right thing to do.

Go Pats! Come on, don't y'all want to see Goodell hand the Lombardi to Kraft/Hoodie and TB?

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1 said:

The Steelers kicker set an NFL post-season field goal record. He made 6 field goals - indeed, all of Pittsburgh's points against the Kansas City Chiefs.

Yes he did and he is a pretty good kicker but the Steelers will need more than 6 field goals this Sunday if they have any hopes of beating the Patriots.

FWIW, a few weeks ago he had 5 field goals and the following Monday when he reported to the Steelers training facility he had a letter informing him that he had to provide a random urine test. He passed the test but the joke around here after this weeks game was if he would have to undergo another "random" test. It hasn't happened yet but there are still more days left before the game with the Patriots.

jmonroe

houdini1

Just a headsup jmonroe. Someone spotted Tonya Hardings ex husband Tim Gilloly stalking Chris Boswell yesterday.

jmonroe

laurasdada said:

Meanwhile, The Patriots did their best to beat The Patriots. Going to the game Sunday night, emptied the kids 529 accounts to buy tickets. It was the right thing to do.

Go Pats! Come on, don't y'all want to see Goodell hand the Lombardi to Kraft/Hoodie and TB?

I don't know how many that would be for the Pats, 5 maybe?

In any case I don't think Goodell would like doing that or worse yet handing another one to the Steelers who would have 7 if that happened.

The NFL would have to legislate more rules to insure parity if he had to do any of that kind of handing off of a Lombardi Trophy.

jmonroe

jmonroe

houdini1 said:

Just a headsup jmonroe. Someone spotted Tonya Hardings ex husband Tim Gilloly stalking Chris Boswell yesterday.

The Steelers are on it.

I just passed on your heads up.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

Patriots= very formidable opponent.

explorerx4

I think we might see this a few times next Sunday

tjc78

@abacomike and @jmonroe

Way back when I think I was one of the first Genesis owners here with J right behind me. Mine was an early build 09 and had a really crappy suspension and was plagued with some issues. It was however a heck of a car and once they settled the early 09 issues hard to beat for the money. Late build 09s rode so much better with the revised suspension.

If I was in the market for that kind of sedan again, I'd certainly give one a look. Unfortunately for me the "fancy" car budget goes to an SUV for a while. I did go back to Hyundai for my practical car and really like it.

oldfarmer50

houdini1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

80 second look at 2018 Mustang. Seems like a lot of cars are going to the digital instrument gauges that can be changed.

2018 Mustang - 80 seconds

Interesting. Like the extra hp. Not so sure about direct injection, don't want to have walnut shell blasting like the BMW. Better exhaust? I'm on board. Digital gauges, not a fan. After the Corvette. I don't trust em'. Like a sharper slope to the hood, mine really sticks out.

I wonder if that gold color will actually be offered? That's a color I would buy if I wanted attention.

Gold color? On my computer it looks to be school bus yellow. I am shocked you didn't buy this color ! I smell a trade !

That's the problem with gold paint, it doesn't look like the photos in real life. I've seen gold in pictures and it looks either yellow or like cheddar cheese in person. I even noticed that the picture I posted looked different here than in the article.

andres3

js06gv said:

I hate front license plates. It's a law here in Texas, but there was some snag for a few years where the police couldn't ticket for it so they didn't bother with you. Then it was corrected so now they can pull you over for no front plate but most times it's a warning. Yet in OK just 50 miles north of me front plates aren't required. I don't buy the crap reason that front plates are needed for identification when several states don't require one. And doesn't it make more sense economically to only print one plate per car?

Most cars in Texas are sold with the front bracket already drilled in. Drivers of higher end makes and sports cars usually roll the dice with no front plate and the dealers are wise to that so they don't drill. They realize that could mean no sale to some buyers. Both of my Mustangs were delivered with the bracket in the trunk. I got by for more than 3 years on the 2011 until my wife was pulled over by DPS on the way back from Houston one day. She read me the riot act over that so I drilled the holes that night (killed me to do it). When I got her the 2015 and tried my luck again without telling her as she never noticed. Until, that is, she got pulled over again and given another warning. This time it only took about 2 months and was a city cop where she works, at night, and he turned around to go get her for it. Ridiculous, but out came the drill again. I had actually been researching one of those flip down holders operated via dash-mounted switch but ran out of time and the wife had some choice words for me that set the tone for the plate going on immediately.

I've only been pulled over once in over 16 years in my Trans Am for no plate and it's still not on there, but I only drive that car 2-3K per year anyway. No ticket, but for some reason I get left alone. My daughter's new Optima spends 75% of the year in OK so even though the bracket was already drilled on I just put an "OSU" designer plate on there. So far, so good.

I agree Front plates are about as useless an idea as there can be in life. They only exist for the few power-hungry authoritarian fascist types in power, so that they can exercise their will upon the little people. 1984.

So far so good without front plates on the '16 Audi TTS.

Good reason to join the Chronic Car buyers forum is so you can just run dealer tags all the time without any plates.

jwm40517

Thanks imid, as soon as I did what you suggested and it fixed the problem I remembered doing the same thing before. Works fine now.

oldfarmer50

Random thoughts:

Got my new washing machine today. Good thing too, down to my last clean shirt. After replacing the water heater on new year's day this was a low stress event.

Replaced the rear glass in the son's Sable. Seems a previous owner had removed window tint with a razor blade and took the defroster grid with it. Only glitch was as the repairman went to put the old window in his truck it exploded in his hands. My driveway is loose stone so he had a hard time cleaning it up.

andres3

ab348 said:

jmonroe said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

A lot of cars built in Germany are not actually built by Germans. I don't think it matters at all who builds it, as long as they are well-trained. Don't worry about who built your car, worry about who manages the factory it was built in.

I'm going to disagree a little.

Management can only account for so much shoddy workmanship of the assembly line workers. Isn't this what almost did in cars from Detroit?

It's getting better but there is still that "perception".

Then we have Caddy. Ask @graphicguy if it is still a "perception" or shoddy work or bad engineering. Maybe a little of all of that.

jmonroe

Well, we had Mike's Benz that was built in Germany and they somehow forgot to install the equipment he had ordered.

Then we had a whole bunch of 2011 Sonatas that were assembled with a built-in pull to the left that couldn't be adjusted out of them.

And let's not even mention the cars from all sorts of makes with the dreaded Takata airbags.

Cars are complex beasts. In some ways it is remarkable they come to us as good as they generally do.

I don't think it's a race thing, but a pride thing. The Germans are a proud people.

I can only be not uncertain that the German's take great pride in their work when they assemble my first 2 Audi's. I work in Construction Management, and let me tell you, pride in workmanship is one of the big problems these days in the USA. I think the same applies with automobiles. If low standards and "good enough for gov't work" rules the culture, then you get mediocre to worse results. The stuff I've received from Germany (or Hungary with the TTS), just seems to be put together with great care and pride.

I also like my Italian wheels and sunglasses, though my last pair of Maui Jim's were made in Japan. All my stuff made in Japan is also very good.

One reason to get a Forester over an Outback, the former is made in Japan while the latter is made in Indiana.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

Random thoughts:

Got my new washing machine today. Good thing too, down to my last clean shirt. After replacing the water heater on new year's day this was a low stress event.

Replaced the rear glass in the son's Sable. Seems a previous owner had removed window tint with a razor blade and took the defroster grid with it. Only glitch was as the repairman went to put the old window in his truck it exploded in his hands. My driveway is loose stone so he had a hard time cleaning it up.

Don't worry, your tires will find the pieces that he missed.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

jmonroe said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

A lot of cars built in Germany are not actually built by Germans. I don't think it matters at all who builds it, as long as they are well-trained. Don't worry about who built your car, worry about who manages the factory it was built in.

I'm going to disagree a little.

Management can only account for so much shoddy workmanship of the assembly line workers. Isn't this what almost did in cars from Detroit?

It's getting better but there is still that "perception".

Then we have Caddy. Ask @graphicguy if it is still a "perception" or shoddy work or bad engineering. Maybe a little of all of that.

jmonroe

Well, we had Mike's Benz that was built in Germany and they somehow forgot to install the equipment he had ordered.

Then we had a whole bunch of 2011 Sonatas that were assembled with a built-in pull to the left that couldn't be adjusted out of them.

And let's not even mention the cars from all sorts of makes with the dreaded Takata airbags.

Cars are complex beasts. In some ways it is remarkable they come to us as good as they generally do.

I don't think it's a race thing, but a pride thing. The Germans are a proud people.

I can only be not uncertain that the German's take great pride in their work when they assemble my first 2 Audi's. I work in Construction Management, and let me tell you, pride in workmanship is one of the big problems these days in the USA. I think the same applies with automobiles. If low standards and "good enough for gov't work" rules the culture, then you get mediocre to worse results. The stuff I've received from Germany (or Hungary with the TTS), just seems to be put together with great care and pride.

I also like my Italian wheels and sunglasses, though my last pair of Maui Jim's were made in Japan. All my stuff made in Japan is also very good.

One reason to get a Forester over an Outback, the former is made in Japan while the latter is made in Indiana.

You know, I've heard this theory many times, about the quality of work varying in the country of assembly, but I can't say as I've seen any hard evidence to back it up. So the best I can do with it is to declare it "interesting but unproven".

PF_Flyer

Another way to put it might be... that bolt doesn't know who or what tightened it

Mr_Shiftright

And then there's the problem of maintaining "pride" when you're doing the same damn thing day after day, week after week. At best, you could take pride in not blowing something off because you're tired---that's true.

abacomike

PF_Flyer said:

Another way to put it might be... that bolt doesn't know who or what tightened it

So much of the manufacturing process done in all modern assembly plants is accomplished by robotics which, in turn, are directed by computers and their programs.  Even a substantial amount of quality control is accomplished by robotics, lasers and computers.  

I remember that it was a well-known fact that US cars manufactured on Mondays or Fridays had s higher probability of manufacturing defects or errors in assembly - missing bolts, screws, welds, etc.  That was due to the fact that laborers built and assembled cars on the line and were more prone to errors when coming off a weekend or beginning a weekend.  I'm sure most of you have heard about this or read about this during the 50's and 60's and well into the 70's and 80's.  Once robotics took over most of the assembly, those problems ebbed.  But new problems arose with the advent of increased attention to economy and safety.

All in all, when you consider the fact that 17+ million vehicles were sold in the US last year, one has to expect certain problems or defects, even with robotics and computers, no matter where the vehicle was manufactured and/or assembled.

Mr_Shiftright

robots also make mistakes, and KEEP making them no matter how much you yell at them

Old Joke:

Robot walks into a bar.

Bartender says: "Sorry we don't serve robots"

Robot says: "One day you will"

suydam

I'm sure it has been claimed that there were more mistakes on Monday -Friday car builds, but I don't recall it being proven fact.

fintail

I could have pride in a repetitive assembly line job if I was working say in the AMG engine factory or even on the MB line (in Sindelfingen). There's also job rotation, and I suspect the bennies are pretty decent in that first worldest of first world areas, too.

Usually on German-made cars, the build quality doesn't disappoint. Bleeding edge beta testing engineering is often what gets to people.

explorerx4

There is this:
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-tale-of-the-57k-engine-repair-1791114047

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

There is this: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-tale-of-the-57k-engine-repair-1791114047

OUCH!!!

stickguy

I remember reading once about how design helped drive accuracy. And the Japanese makers paid attention. The example I recall was something like a headlight bucket or bezel. The domestic was designed so it fit right way up or upside down. So guess what happened at times? Got put in upside down. But Toyota made it so it only fit 1 way, so impossible to put it in the wrong way.

so, basically designed the part to take the user (installer) error out of the equation.

fintail

Head bolt failures have been a known issue on the M156 for some time. I wouldn't touch one without a thorough PPI. As far as I know, all of the x63 series AMG cars of that era are affected. No doubt some wacky complex engineering at play.

explorerx4 said:

There is this:
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-tale-of-the-57k-engine-repair-1791114047

abacomike

@jmonroe

Read your post re: technology in your Genesis - that you'd rather turn a knob or press a button over implementing a technology feature.  I believe it has to do with comfort level.  I can rotate my finger clockwise in front of the radio to increase  volume or counterclockwise to reduce volume - or I can press + or - on the steering wheel - or I can turn a knob.  I always end up turning a knob.

But what I have been using more and more is voice activation.  I can say "display tire pressure monitor", "display weather", "play my music", "satellite radio channel 17", "or display navigation map", etc., etc.  I can call up just about anything in the car by just using voice control - that is much more advanced than my Mercedes which had limited voice activation.

It all has to do with comfort level.

nyccarguy

My boys and I finished our derby cars. They get impounded tomorrow. The scout leader or troop leader said he'll put the wheels on with a apecial tool. The race is Sunday! Very exciting!

graphicguy

jmonroe said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

A lot of cars built in Germany are not actually built by Germans. I don't think it matters at all who builds it, as long as they are well-trained. Don't worry about who built your car, worry about who manages the factory it was built in.

I'm going to disagree a little.

Management can only account for so much shoddy workmanship of the assembly line workers. Isn't this what almost did in cars from Detroit?

It's getting better but there is still that "perception".

Then we have Caddy. Ask @graphicguy if it is still a "perception" or shoddy work or bad engineering. Maybe a little of all of that.

jmonroe

J.....Obviously, engineering fell down. That's not perception. It's reality. Shoddy work? Not so certain about that. The worker just put together what engineering and the manufacturing process told them to. The assembly workers are putting together the Cadillacs as well as any in the entire industry.

The process is to blame, also. How do you go a few weeks, or in my case, a month...without having the parts required? Further, how do you put out a $60K car that catches on fire because of your engineering incompetence? Further, how can you engineer a car that matches, or exceeds the world's best from a build, handling, performance, build and materials, and fall down on something as simple as a wiring harness and a ground cable?

Then, there are the dealers. I had one that was terrible. And, one that seems to take a genuine interest. That can be true of Cadillac, just as easily as it can be true of BMW, Mercedes, etc. The dealerships who seem to consistently offer the best customer service seems to be Lexus.

I want to believe in Cadillac. I really do. For every step forward, it seems they take two steps back.

stickguy

Bradd, good luck to the kids. Just don't expect to win the special "best aesthetic" prize! Might get the Colin Chapman function over form award though.