Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

One of my remote coworkers bought a house in Brampton less than a year ago. He says its' value is up about 25%.

Best thing to do in that "tulip mania" environment is to sell before it all comes crashing down. I remember a similar situation in places like Las Vegas prior to 2008. By 2010 you could buy your house back for 50% or less.

Mr_Shiftright

Sounds like Tesla stock....

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

Sounds like Tesla stock....

The greater fool theory.

Mr_Shiftright

Quote from one stock analyst:

""Investors were asked to employ a 'creative' valuation methodology. I think that means that when the numbers don't make any sense, one should ignore them and focus on other things," Farr said. "It's like being told to ignore the flames coming out of that airplane, I'm sure your trip will be fine."

oldfarmer50

"Another suprise was a Nissan Rouge depreciated quickly."

I was thinking the same thing but at least locally the dealers ain't marking them down much. Like this one...

http://www.listingallcars.com/details/2013-Nissan-Rogue-Used/5966441544719664034



Ok so it sold new for what, $24-25k and now almost 5 years later they want $16.5k? Half off from new would be about $12k. Too bad, that's my kind of milage and I was considering a Rogue as a possible replacement for the rapidly aging PT.

That's your friend Billy BTW.

oldfarmer50

OK, explain this one to me:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/6097129878.html

driver100

Fin, when I bought my 2015 E400 the sales rep told me MB offers more models in Canada than it does in the US. The population is about 10% of the US, so it doesn't make total sense. But, small cars sell better here, cheaper cars, hatchbacks sell well, and wagons do well..........so, if they are covering all the bases it does make sense somehow.

Just drove an hour to see the play "The Million Dollar Quartet" based on the true story of when Elvis, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash and Jerry Lee Louis met at Sun City for one time only. What a great fun play and what a great story about how Sam Phillips started Sun records with a dream....and then all his musicians got stolen by the big boys...RCA and Columbia. The Jerry Lee guy jumped up and down on the piano and played it on his back......it was a great show.

The car is beautiful to drive, much smoother riding than the 2015, and the steering is firm but smooth...perfect. Power if you need it, and the seats are so comfortable.......and the Star Wars digital display is fun to look at.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

One of my remote coworkers bought a house in Brampton less than a year ago. He says its' value is up about 25%.

Best thing to do in that "tulip mania" environment is to sell before it all comes crashing down. I remember a similar situation in places like Las Vegas prior to 2008. By 2010 you could buy your house back for 50% or less.

They have been saying prices will drop for about 30 years now, and they just keep going higher. They dipped about 10% during the 2008 recession, but we didn't have those phony no money down mortgages. There is something to be said for regulating the banks....to some degree.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

"Another suprise was a Nissan Rouge depreciated quickly."

I was thinking the same thing but at least locally the dealers ain't marking them down much. Like this one...

http://www.listingallcars.com/details/2013-Nissan-Rogue-Used/5966441544719664034



Ok so it sold new for what, $24-25k and now almost 5 years later they want $16.5k? Half off from new would be about $12k. Too bad, that's my kind of milage and I was considering a Rogue as a possible replacement for the rapidly aging PT.

That's your friend Billy BTW.

You can probably do better on CL.....just don't buy it if you see lots of snow and it looks like Siberia in the background.

I'd try to avoid Billy, his commercials are way too loud and insulting for any normal person.

explorerx4

That generation of Rogue had lots of transmission issues.

ab348

explorerx4 said:

That generation of Rogue had lots of transmission issues.

Yeah, they weren't great in a lot of ways. I remember reading about a persistent driveline vibration or harmonics issue over several model years. They aren't the best looking CUV at the rodeo either, though the current midel looks much better. It seems to get lousy reviews though, mostly for the driving experience. I really like how the current version looks.

driver100

Edmund's gave it 3 stars out of 5, no mention of actual transmission problems, though I am not doubting it. I found this informative:
There are many great choices for a small crossover this year. The redesigned Ford Escape provides perhaps the most formidable alternative, with a fresher look and an equally engaging drive. The Kia Sportage is another sporty choice, while the freshly revised Honda CR-V and ever-popular Toyota RAV4 offer more cargo space. Buyers shopping in this class should spend time with several candidates, as all have specific strengths and quirks. But for a nicely appointed crossover that drives like a quick, small car, the 2013 Nissan Rogue is a solid pick.

and,

pros

Smooth ride
Capable handling
Quick acceleration
High-quality cabin
Comfortable front seats.
cons

Short on cargo room and versatility
CVT causes engine drone
Lacks V6 option
Poor rearward visibility.

IMO, some cars are OK, but unless you get an amazing deal, I don't understand why someone wouldn't go for the leaders in that segment of the market.

abacomike

I saw "Hacksaw Ridge" and "Jack Reacher 2" so far this weekend.  If you haven't seen one or both flicks, I highly recommend both.  

The acting in "Hacksaw Ridge" was stupendous and Andrew Garfield played that role great.  I did not know Mel Gibson directed/produced that flick - the cinematography was terrific and the battle scenes were unbelievable.

Tom Cruise plays the role of Jack Reacher to a tee - I think this one was better than the first one if that's possible.

Just thought i'd share my opinion.

fintail

Little risk of a tulip bubble situation for Canadian and west coast real estate, barring a global crisis or the US and Canada actually regulating offshore money. There's more than enough international wealth from just a couple countries looking for a safe place to hide, and with residency up for sale, the path to purchase is easy.

driver100 said:

They have been saying prices will drop for about 30 years now, and they just keep going higher. They dipped about 10% during the 2008 recession, but we didn't have those phony no money down mortgages. There is something to be said for regulating the banks....to some degree.

fintail

There has been numerous different models - detuned E300 6cyl for W212, SWB S-class, non-electric B-class, all not offered in the US, along with the models that are sold south of the border. The options are packaged a little different for US and Canadian cars, the latter again kind of similar to UK offerings.

I see for the new E, MB finally discovered thigh support extensions, something BMW perfected ages ago. As a mildly tall driver, I'd like those.

driver100 said:

Fin, when I bought my 2015 E400 the sales rep told me MB offers more models in Canada than it does in the US. The population is about 10% of the US, so it doesn't make total sense. But, small cars sell better here, cheaper cars, hatchbacks sell well, and wagons do well..........so, if they are covering all the bases it does make sense somehow.

Just drove an hour to see the play "The Million Dollar Quartet" based on the true story of when Elvis, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash and Jerry Lee Louis met at Sun City for one time only. What a great fun play and what a great story about how Sam Phillips started Sun records with a dream....and then all his musicians got stolen by the big boys...RCA and Columbia. The Jerry Lee guy jumped up and down on the piano and played it on his back......it was a great show.

The car is beautiful to drive, much smoother riding than the 2015, and the steering is firm but smooth...perfect. Power if you need it, and the seats are so comfortable.......and the Star Wars digital display is fun to look at.

sda

fintail said:

There has been numerous different models - detuned E300 6cyl for W212, SWB S-class, non-electric B-class, all not offered in the US, along with the models that are sold south of the border. The options are packaged a little different for US and Canadian cars, the latter again kind of similar to UK offerings.

I see for the new E, MB finally discovered thigh support extensions, something BMW perfected ages ago. As a mildly tall driver, I'd like those.

driver100 said:

Fin, when I bought my 2015 E400 the sales rep told me MB offers more models in Canada than it does in the US. The population is about 10% of the US, so it doesn't make total sense. But, small cars sell better here, cheaper cars, hatchbacks sell well, and wagons do well..........so, if they are covering all the bases it does make sense somehow.

Just drove an hour to see the play "The Million Dollar Quartet" based on the true story of when Elvis, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash and Jerry Lee Louis met at Sun City for one time only. What a great fun play and what a great story about how Sam Phillips started Sun records with a dream....and then all his musicians got stolen by the big boys...RCA and Columbia. The Jerry Lee guy jumped up and down on the piano and played it on his back......it was a great show.

The car is beautiful to drive, much smoother riding than the 2015, and the steering is firm but smooth...perfect. Power if you need it, and the seats are so comfortable.......and the Star Wars digital display is fun to look at.

Your new MB sounds great and am glad you like it so much. Buyers remorse is not good.

ab348

driver100 said:

IMO, some cars are OK, but unless you get an amazing deal, I don't understand why someone wouldn't go for the leaders in that segment of the market.

Well, it all depends on what you like and what delivers best perceived value. I have never been a Ford guy; maybe my perception is mistaken but there is something about them that just doesn't ring my bell. The RAV4 seems long in the tooth and around here at least, not competitively priced. The CRV seems good but is everywhere and you pay top dollar, though it comes back in resale value. The Kia seems OK but again gets expensive at the top end. Nissan and Hyundai always seem willing to give screaming deals on vehicles that are generally OK - not great maybe, but OK. That is appealing to many.

verdugo

sb55 said:

I used to work right next to a Citi, branch, so that's the bank I used. I have 2 Citi credit cards, 1 personal and 1 business. I have no problems with them after what happened to me.
6 years ago my daughter was in the Peace Corps in Namibia (Africa). We went to visit her twice. The first time we went, whenever you went to a restaurant, they brought a credit card machine to the table and you never lost sight of your card. The 2nd time we went back, on the first night we got to Windhoek (largest city in Namibia) and we went to a restaurant that we had gone to on the 1st trip. This time they took my card. Being jet-lagged and exhausted after a 30 hour trip, I didn't question it. I remember that it took a long to bring the check and card back to the table. Partway through my trip, my card was denied. That was strange, as I paid my bill before I left and barely used it. When I got home, I found out that my card was cloned and they ran up about $15,000. in fraudulent charges. At stores in Namibia and South Africa. I was able to document where I travelled, so Citi made good on all of the charges.
After that, I have no complaints with their credit card department.

Currently I have a Chase credit card. I made a large charge. Immediately I got a text message from Chase asking me to reply Y if I had made the charge, N if I hadn't. First time I've seen that.

I like this system much better than finding out a day later that there was a suspicious transaction and that they were freezing my account, which is what Citi did to me once.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

That generation of Rogue had lots of transmission issues.

Yeah, they weren't great in a lot of ways. I remember reading about a persistent driveline vibration or harmonics issue over several model years. They aren't the best looking CUV at the rodeo either, though the current midel looks much better. It seems to get lousy reviews though, mostly for the driving experience. I really like how the current version looks.

So sometimes quick deprciation is earned.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

IMO, some cars are OK, but unless you get an amazing deal, I don't understand why someone wouldn't go for the leaders in that segment of the market.

Well, it all depends on what you like and what delivers best perceived value. I have never been a Ford guy; maybe my perception is mistaken but there is something about them that just doesn't ring my bell. The RAV4 seems long in the tooth and around here at least, not competitively priced. The CRV seems good but is everywhere and you pay top dollar, though it comes back in resale value. The Kia seems OK but again gets expensive at the top end. Nissan and Hyundai always seem willing to give screaming deals on vehicles that are generally OK - not great maybe, but OK. That is appealing to many.

I always said I would only buy a Honda new.

fintail

A co-worker has one of those Rogues, a 12 or 13 model. She likes it. She's had no issues, up to around 70K now, I think, bought it at something like 15K as a year old CPO. She drives it hard and doesn't treat it nicely - hauls dirt and hay and dogs in it. She doesn't want a larger SUV, and does mention that visibility and sight lines aren't the best.

driver100

Mike, saw Jack Reacher at the theater and really liked it.....Tom Cruise did a great job, perfect in the part but in the book Reacher is supposed to be 6"6 or something.

When we went to the show the kid selling tickets asked what we wanted to see. I said 2 senior tickets for Jack Reacher. He said, that movie isn't very good, you should see something else. I said, I don't care if it isn't that great, I know the reviews aren't the best but I just want a mindless action flick where I don't have to think. He said we should see.......he named the movie. I said I'll take my chances, sell me the ticket.

The movie was perfect for our purposes.

Kind of like cars, one persons Rogue is another person's Ford Escape.

I wonder if the kid's boss knows the kid is giving movie reviews to the customers.

isellhondas

fintail said:

I like to have outward visibility, too. As far as I know, doors and glass should interchange between all 2010-16 models. E400 is probably a thing in most markets - for whatever reason, MBUSA has been allowed to embark on its own unique marketing scheme and product line. The Canadian line is a bit different, closer to the UK line. Heck, in Germany you can still get an E with a manual transmission.

I am in Vancouver now and then, a city somewhat ruined by real estate speculation. It has crept south, too - for a period last year, more than half of detached property transactions in my postal code were to offshore cash buyers, and there's no real vetting of the origin of these funds here or north of the border. Money that would land you in prison if earned the same way here is welcomed with open arms. It's not as bad as Vancouver or Toronto yet (both places must have ratios of average detached house to income approaching 15:1 or more now), but it is getting there.

driver100 said:

I like the angular design of the 2015 and the larger windows, especially the wedge shaped front side windows of the 15 model. I love the digital instrument panel in the 17 model though....that makes the car really special.

I had a suspicion the 2017 E400s were selling somewhere else other than Canada.....of course not available in the US. Lots of Chinese speculators buying up businesses and property in Canada. One $2million home went on the market near me recently and they had 14 offers the first day, and 7 were from Chinese investors who didn't even look at the property. Property around the Toronto area is up 35% over a year ago, and it was high then.

I

You said it! The RE Agents are hurting because there is NO INVENTORY to speak of. Houses in our neighborhood are being listed for top dollar and then go up for bid and bring 40,000 or more over that!

This is becoming another Vancouver! I suppose I should be happy but this bothers me too!

berri

It only helps current owners if they are going to leave the area. Otherwise it just makes it that much harder for a current owner to sell and move up. 10% appreciation on X is always going to be less than 10% on X+, so a gap occurs and expands as the appreciation rate increases.

Ok, that's a bit of a generalization because the more equity build up you have, the more it can offset some of this impact on the owner. But still, you will be paying more mortgage on a trade-up because of the big price increases.

I wonder if Seattle gets to Silicon Valley or Orange County price levels, if some of the tech biz will have recruiting issues and start looking for cheaper cost of living locations? Seattle is a beautiful area, but it doesn't have California weather. Places like Austin, TX also have tech, as do some low cost of living cities like Omaha that are actually nicer than many believe. I guess time will tell, or it will get offshored.

qbrozen

I didn't care much for Reacher 2. It was just ok. Much better mindless action flick we just watched today was Kong Skull Island. I think the best modern King Kong or Godzilla movie to date.

On the other side of the spectrum, my kids have been itching to see A Dog's Purpose, so we all watched that together last night. Everyone loved it, but it is quite emotional, as you might expect.

fintail

I'm happy for my grandma anyway, their investment paid off well, and the house to income ratio was a bit more realistic than what it would be now. But young people today have it easy! Right.

We're getting closer to Vancouver every day in terms of price and the source of funds, and I suspect the nicer areas here are not far off similar CA areas. There will definitely be a point where cheaper cost of living areas start to take business. Hopefully domestic and not actually offshored - I suspect the hot talk about that subject won't be met with action by the new regime.

isellhondas said:

You said it! The RE Agents are hurting because there is NO INVENTORY to speak of. Houses in our neighborhood are being listed for top dollar and then go up for bid and bring 40,000 or more over that!

This is becoming another Vancouver! I suppose I should be happy but this bothers me too!

oldfarmer50

Like stocks you only make money if you sell but then you either have to move away or buy back into another overpriced house. Great if you are moving to a lower cost area.

How are the high prices effecting property taxes? Where I am the politicians wouldn't hesitate to raise taxes to match the higher valuations.

abacomike

Got up early this morning - wanted to do some early food shopping before the contractor who blows out the dryer vents in our building starts his annual trek through the condo units.  Went down to the car and couldn't see more than 200 feet in front of me - fog as thick as pea soup because of all the rain yesterday.  So, back upstairs to wait it out until the sun burns it off.  Ugh!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Like stocks you only make money if you sell but then you either have to move away or buy back into another overpriced house. Great if you are moving to a lower cost area.

How are the high prices effecting property taxes? Where I am the politicians wouldn't hesitate to raise taxes to match the higher valuations.

1) You only come out ahead if you downsize when prices go up that much. Or sell completely and move to Costa Rica.

2)A property tax expert explained to me that taxes shouldn't change that much just because house prices go up. Not my field of expertise, but I think the explanation went like this. ......City has a budget, must raise that amount, puts a value on your house, that dollar amount is used to figure out your share of the taxes.

This statement may help:
If two properties were assessed at $500,000 in 2012, each would share an equal portion of the city's tax burden. But if they are reassessed and one home remains at $500,000 but the other is now valued at $600,000, the higher valued property now carries a bigger tax responsibility .

City's expenses stay the same or may go up say 2%, even though assessment value is greater, tax is still based on cities budget.

That is my interpretation........which could mean very little, but, I wanted you to get some kind of answer, even if it is wrong.

nyccarguy

UGH! So the other night, my wife starts looking at houses online. She asks what do you think we can get for our house? We paid $618,500 for our 1,431 square foot ranch back in 2010. We've done a lot of work to it including: New Kitchen, New Basement, New Garage Door, Painted the exterior, Refinished the hardwood floors, new septic (paid for by the previous owner), and of course painted the inside. Now there is still a lot of work to be done. Some is essential. Some cosmetic. The driveway needs to be ripped up and redone. We want to put a new deck up. Our bathrooms are functionally fine, but the styling especially in our master bathroom is out dated and some of the "brass plated" finish is starting to wear off. There's also the high water tables on my property. The issue has been solved, but it is still in the back of our minds that we could have a very rainy spring or summer and get flooded again. My landscaper says I need topsoil to slops away from the house to the tune of $3,500 (my wife says he's not an engineer so he can't say for sure this will fix the issue). I said: I don't know. Maybe $650K. Maybe $640K.

There are also 5 of us in a 3 bedroom house. Currently my oldest son who is 10 1/2 has taken over my 5 year old daughter's room. My 5 year old daughter loves my 10 1/2 year old's top bunk. Since my oldest son will be starting middle school next year, it is better for him to have his own room because his bus will come at 6:40 AM as opposed to my younger son (8) and my daughter whose bus picks them up at 8:40 AM.

My wife seems to think we should see what our house is worth and buy something else. She showed me a bunch of properties for sale in our city that have asking prices of between $650K & $675K. 4 bedrooms, redone kitchens, bathrooms...

I'm against the idea of moving. I hate it! We lived in 2 houses from the time I was born until I graduated high school. My wife and her family moved around more. I also don't want to take on additional debt, plus reset the mortgage clock again since I refinanced only 2 years ago. I'm just getting comfortable financially so I'm not completely stressing every month about the mortgage plus I'm putting money away. We make a good living between the 2 of us, but neither of us is poised for a GIANT pay raise anytime soon.

fintail

Around here, taxed property values are often understated, to keep people afloat no doubt. I see many cases where assessed values are 30-40%+ under market values, year in, year out. I think if it wasn't for this understatement and the wacky mortgage-related tax gifts, many people would be forced to take in boarders to keep the bills paid and keep the FIRE industries buried in gold.

The rates themselves around here don't appear to be insanely high compared to many areas - I am pretty sure my friend who had a stint in Atlanta said the rate there was higher (people who claim to be anti-government in the south have an amusingly insane amount of bloated local government, each tiny little county having its own overhead), but of course the house was worth a fraction of one here, so the bill was a pittance.

oldfarmer50 said:

Like stocks you only make money if you sell but then you either have to move away or buy back into another overpriced house. Great if you are moving to a lower cost area.

How are the high prices effecting property taxes? Where I am the politicians wouldn't hesitate to raise taxes to match the higher valuations.

fintail

I think eventually you'll want an extra bedroom, unless those boys really get along as they get older - the girl will need her own room too. Your next project might be finishing part of the basement into a bedroom. You might have to weigh the costs of desired renovations vs finding another house.

2010 was roughly the low point in the market here, a 600K house then can easily be 1MM++ now. Of course, that 600K was still hard to get with a typical single local salary (even today, it would be an insane amount of debt vs salary).

nyccarguy said:

UGH! So the other night, my wife starts looking at houses online. She asks what do you think we can get for our house? We paid $618,500 for our 1,431 square foot ranch back in 2010.

suydam

It just depends on where you are and what the employment in your city is like. Where I lived in Ohio there were a lot of layoffs at the middle and upper salary tier, meaning no one could afford the mid or upper market housing. Also a lot of times the renovations just means your house keeps pace with the neighbors, it doesn't actually increase. Best way to know is have it evaluated by a realtor. Then you'll know what's realistic. But if your house has increased, so has everyone else's.

ab348

driver100 said:

1) You only come out ahead if you downsize when prices go up that much. Or sell completely and move to Costa Rica.

2)A property tax expert explained to me that taxes shouldn't change that much just because house prices go up. Not my field of expertise, but I think the explanation went like this. ......City has a budget, must raise that amount, puts a value on your house, that dollar amount is used to figure out your share of the taxes.

This statement may help:
If two properties were assessed at $500,000 in 2012, each would share an equal portion of the city's tax burden. But if they are reassessed and one home remains at $500,000 but the other is now valued at $600,000, the higher valued property now carries a bigger tax responsibility .

City's expenses stay the same or may go up say 2%, even though assessment value is greater, tax is still based on cities budget.

That is my interpretation........which could mean very little, but, I wanted you to get some kind of answer, even if it is wrong.

I used to work in property assessment and municipal government relations for the province, so I have some background on this. You are essentially correct.

Around here, property assessment is done by the province to ensure fairness among municipal units when distributing grants and developing comparative measures. They use a "market value" as of a certain date assessment model here (which really isn't that close to market on a property by property basis in reality) and the results are then provided to the municipal governments to determine tax rates. The municipalities determine their budget needs for tax revenue and work backwards from the assessment roll figures to determine the tax rates. Seems simple. But it isn't.

The entire basis of using market value assessment is to determine a property owner's "ability to pay". In theory the owner of a million-dollar house should be able to afford to pay more in taxes than someone owning a $250,000 house. But where you get into problems is when a market gets hot. Up here it happened about 10 years ago when property on or near the ocean in a remote part of the province suddenly became the target of wealthy people from the US and Europe, who bought them in order to build posh getaways. That drove up the land value tremendously. All good except when the widows of fishermen or loggers suddenly got tax bills 4x what they were previously because the presumed value of their property quadrupled even though it was their home and they had no plans to sell. Cries of "Old people being driven out of their homes" ensued. The same would apply to a hot market in a city.

Seeing a problem, govt rushed in to solve it with a property assessment cap. Assessed values could only go up at the rate of the CPI unless a property was sold, at which point the new owner was assessed at market value. That of course created a new problem where properties next to each other could have drastically different assessments and tax bills. The inequities created its own set of problems. Govt has not been able to come up with a solution to that.

The other problem you get is when an area starts on a growth or property value spurt. The assessment roll jumps and govts suddenly can create a windfall in revenue even if they keep the tax RATE the same because the property value it is multiplied by has gone up so much. Invariably the municipal govt will make a big deal out of saying they held the tax rate, but homeowners will be paying a much bigger bill. This is happening where I live now and what happens is that a windfall of revenue for the municipality means they can do all kinds of pet projects and cater to the special interests. Meanwhile the basic services get very little attention, but taxes never actually go down. It is a mess.

The longer I was been involved in the property tax world the more I came to believe that the whole market-value assessment-based "ability to pay" model was mistaken. Aside from the huge cost with trying to value hundred of thousands or millions of property units, it really has little to do with the ability to afford taxes. Various other models have been floated to determine the tax burden a given property should bear to contribute its share of covering govt service provided - some combination of square footage, road frontage, number of bedrooms and baths, things like that. These draw complaints that they put more of a burden on the middle class than the wealthy, and those on the left side of the political spectrum generally are opposed as a result.

nyccarguy

fintail said:

I think eventually you'll want an extra bedroom, unless those boys really get along as they get older - the girl will need her own room too. Your next project might be finishing part of the basement into a bedroom. You might have to weigh the costs of desired renovations vs finding another house.

2010 was roughly the low point in the market here, a 600K house then can easily be 1MM++ now. Of course, that 600K was still hard to get with a typical single local salary (even today, it would be an insane amount of debt vs salary).

nyccarguy said:

UGH! So the other night, my wife starts looking at houses online. She asks what do you think we can get for our house? We paid $618,500 for our 1,431 square foot ranch back in 2010.

2010 was a low point in our market too. After taking close to 2 year to sell our condo, we bought our house at what we thought was a fair price. When we refinished the basement, we made sure one of the rooms was done. There's just not a closet down there.

stickguy

Sell and move. Remodeling is not bad. Adding missing space is. Odds are, in the medium term, you will spend less by flipping and going now. Just make sure you have needed space to get you through high school!

Oh, and make sure to get a 2 car garage this time if you don't have one now.

Property brothers just did a season in your area. Could have been on tV!

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

Like stocks you only make money if you sell but then you either have to move away or buy back into another overpriced house. Great if you are moving to a lower cost area.

How are the high prices effecting property taxes? Where I am the politicians wouldn't hesitate to raise taxes to match the higher valuations.

High property taxes generally suppress housing prices.

ab348

stickguy said:

Sell and move. Remodeling is not bad.

Ironic you posted that just as the contractors were using a sledgehammer to break up a cast-iron tub they could not otherwise free up. The entire house was shaking. Been a rugged morning here with lots of noise and dust.

Shame about that tub. It was original to the house and around 20 years ago the previous owner had one of those bath fitter things put in over it which ruined it. Without that, I likely would have kept it.

fintail

Sounds like a good fit for a boy's bedroom - they don't mind a basement, and you can find a wardrobe for a few hundred dollars at most.

My prior residence, a condo sold almost 12 years ago is worth effectively the same now as then (almost the peak of the market). Condos in outlying areas don't fare so well here.

nyccarguy said:

2010 was a low point in our market too. After taking close to 2 year to sell our condo, we bought our house at what we thought was a fair price. When we refinished the basement, we made sure one of the rooms was done. There's just not a closet down there.

berri

Perhaps I'm a cynic, but I don't believe developers ever really pay their fair share. As house prices rise spurring developers, the increased value of the current homes tends to lead to property tax increases. I don't think in that scenario gov costs remain pretty much the same. There are new water and sewer extensions, roads improvements, additional school requirements, etc. You don't think the real estate developers are footing all of that??? Current homeowners end up covering some of it with their newly inflated property tax bills.

Mr_Shiftright

Back in the 50s, for every tax dollar you paid out, corporations paid out $1.50.

In 2017, for every tax dollar you pay out, corporations pay out about .25 cents

This puts most governments into deficit, so they borrow, and if your wages don't go up year after year, then you borrow, too.

And who lends everyone the money? Exactly.

Ain't life grand?

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

I'm against the idea of moving. I hate it! We lived in 2 houses from the time I was born until I graduated high school. My wife and her family moved around more. I also don't want to take on additional debt, plus reset the mortgage clock again since I refinanced only 2 years ago. I'm just getting comfortable financially so I'm not completely stressing every month about the mortgage plus I'm putting money away. We make a good living between the 2 of us, but neither of us is poised for a GIANT pay raise anytime soon.

I'm with you on moving. I'd like to downsize on living space and upsize on garage space, but I'd hate to sell the farm.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

I'm against the idea of moving. I hate it! We lived in 2 houses from the time I was born until I graduated high school. My wife and her family moved around more. I also don't want to take on additional debt, plus reset the mortgage clock again since I refinanced only 2 years ago. I'm just getting comfortable financially so I'm not completely stressing every month about the mortgage plus I'm putting money away. We make a good living between the 2 of us, but neither of us is poised for a GIANT pay raise anytime soon.

I'm with you on moving. I'd like to downsize on living space and upsize on garage space, but I'd hate to sell the farm.

I loath moving. For about 20 years after I graduated from college I moved on average, every 3-4 years. Always jumping to the next place that was bigger, nicer neighborhood, more amenities, better school systems....just about any reason I could rationalize would cause me to move.

I've lived in my current house longer than I've lived anywhere. It's too big for me currently. Can't see a time when I'll use the entirety of the house, ever again.

But, moving trumps everything else and I won't unless someone makes me an overwhelming offer, or my situation changes to the point where the desire to stay is overwhelmed by the desire to pack up and move.

suydam

We were also in a house that was way too big for us, surrounded by stuff. It seemed overwhelming to even contemplate. What changed our minds? Watching our friends deal with the mounds of THEIR parents' stuff because the parents had also been reluctant to change. And then they were unable to. The stress on everyone was unbelievable. I didn't want to be in that situation. So we decided to downsize radically, moved into a very small condo in the area of the country we love. I am so glad we did it. Housekeeping is now minimal, we have pared down to the things that matter most, and we are free to enjoy everything we love about living where we want to.

breld

@nyccarguy - I'm with @stickguy. Sounds to me like you need to bite the bullet and make the move based on what you're saying about the growing needs of the family. No doubt it's a painful process, having just gone through it myself last year. But now that we're on the other side I couldn't be more pleased and am so happy we did it.

Obviously, just make sure that the next move fills all those needs and then some.

Michaell

I'll echo what @stickguy and @breld said - you can't really make more space in your existing home, so you might as well consider selling and moving.

As previously noted, get a trusted realtor to come out and give an honest assessment of the house, and the potential asking price. Like cars, we become emotionally attached and think they are worth more than they really are.

There has to have been some appreciation in housing prices since you bought. Even a 1.5% annual appreciation on your $618K purchase price for the last 4 years takes the house to $656K.

nyccarguy

There is also the other side of the coin. Yes we could use more space NOW, but our oldest is 10 1/2 and will only be home for another 8 - 9 years at the most before he goes away to school. By that time, the room in the basement would be perfect for somebody in their late teens/ early 20s.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

UGH! So the other night, my wife starts looking at houses online. She asks what do you think we can get for our house? We paid $618,500 for our 1,431 square foot ranch back in 2010. We've done a lot of work to it including: New Kitchen, New Basement, New Garage Door, Painted the exterior, Refinished the hardwood floors, new septic (paid for by the previous owner), and of course painted the inside. Now there is still a lot of work to be done. Some is essential. Some cosmetic. The driveway needs to be ripped up and redone. We want to put a new deck up. Our bathrooms are functionally fine, but the styling especially in our master bathroom is out dated and some of the "brass plated" finish is starting to wear off. There's also the high water tables on my property. The issue has been solved, but it is still in the back of our minds that we could have a very rainy spring or summer and get flooded again. My landscaper says I need topsoil to slops away from the house to the tune of $3,500 (my wife says he's not an engineer so he can't say for sure this will fix the issue). I said: I don't know. Maybe $650K. Maybe $640K.

There are also 5 of us in a 3 bedroom house. Currently my oldest son who is 10 1/2 has taken over my 5 year old daughter's room. My 5 year old daughter loves my 10 1/2 year old's top bunk. Since my oldest son will be starting middle school next year, it is better for him to have his own room because his bus will come at 6:40 AM as opposed to my younger son (8) and my daughter whose bus picks them up at 8:40 AM.

My wife seems to think we should see what our house is worth and buy something else. She showed me a bunch of properties for sale in our city that have asking prices of between $650K & $675K. 4 bedrooms, redone kitchens, bathrooms...

I'm against the idea of moving. I hate it! We lived in 2 houses from the time I was born until I graduated high school. My wife and her family moved around more. I also don't want to take on additional debt, plus reset the mortgage clock again since I refinanced only 2 years ago. I'm just getting comfortable financially so I'm not completely stressing every month about the mortgage plus I'm putting money away. We make a good living between the 2 of us, but neither of us is poised for a GIANT pay raise anytime soon.

Move to upstate NY and your $650,000 will buy a whole neighborhood.

berri

Whatever you decide, good luck with it all. There is a lot of expense selling and buying a house, so you want to be sure.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Like stocks you only make money if you sell but then you either have to move away or buy back into another overpriced house. Great if you are moving to a lower cost area.

How are the high prices effecting property taxes? Where I am the politicians wouldn't hesitate to raise taxes to match the higher valuations.

1) You only come out ahead if you downsize when prices go up that much. Or sell completely and move to Costa Rica.

2)A property tax expert explained to me that taxes shouldn't change that much just because house prices go up. Not my field of expertise, but I think the explanation went like this. ......City has a budget, must raise that amount, puts a value on your house, that dollar amount is used to figure out your share of the taxes.

This statement may help:
If two properties were assessed at $500,000 in 2012, each would share an equal portion of the city's tax burden. But if they are reassessed and one home remains at $500,000 but the other is now valued at $600,000, the higher valued property now carries a bigger tax responsibility .

City's expenses stay the same or may go up say 2%, even though assessment value is greater, tax is still based on cities budget.

That is my interpretation........which could mean very little, but, I wanted you to get some kind of answer, even if it is wrong.

Some answer even if it wrong? You should go into politics.

Here if your house goes up 25% in value the guy who buys it gets hit with a tax bump unless the value increase is from improvements then they revalue you for the whole thing and slam you there. That's why a lot of cities have such decrepit houses. The taxes are astronomical (8-9% of market value per year) and if you fix your house they jack up your taxes because of the increased value. Some people won't even paint their homes for fear of increases.

Funny, my spell checker has taken to making common words like jack and homes into proper names.