Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

Michaell said:

I'll echo what @stickguy and @breld said - you can't really make more space in your existing home, so you might as well consider selling and moving.

As previously noted, get a trusted realtor to come out and give an honest assessment of the house, and the potential asking price. Like cars, we become emotionally attached and think they are worth more than they really are.

There has to have been some appreciation in housing prices since you bought. Even a 1.5% annual appreciation on your $618K purchase price for the last 4 years takes the house to $656K.

And I'll echo what now Michaell and @stickguy and @breld said - you can't really make more space in your existing home, so you might as well consider selling and moving.

If you like to save then it is hard to think in terms of spending more to buy a larger house....but, one day you will be glad you did it. Even if a house is $50000 more...that will be less than $2000 a year more in payments to live in a place that will suit you over time.

Our real home is 2200 sq ft, our Florida place is about 1300 sq ft. I don't notice a lot of difference as far as living for 2 people. If I could buy a home here with the same floor plan as the Florida place for substantially less money, I would do it. Like what was mentioned....you don't need as much in older years.

stickguy

Property taxes are a big driver for me wanting to go. Plus after 20 years I really want something different. Where I am looking, taxes are so much lower I could buy a house $100k more expensive than what I would sell for, and end up with a much lower mortgage payment anyway. After paying all fees, etc.

driver100

Ab, Good summary of taxes. I have come to the conclusion democracies have lots of inefficiencies not to mention corruption, but it is still better than any other form of government....and often there is no satisfactory way to make it fair.
I say as long as I can go out and play tennis and pickleball, I don't care what they do anymore. It is the only way I know to try and stay sane.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back in the 50s, for every tax dollar you paid out, corporations paid out $1.50.

In 2017, for every tax dollar you pay out, corporations pay out about .25 cents

This puts most governments into deficit, so they borrow, and if your wages don't go up year after year, then you borrow, too.

And who lends everyone the money? Exactly.

Ain't life grand?

But is that because corporate taxes have gone down or because individual taxes have gone up? Statistics can be made to say many things.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

I'm against the idea of moving. I hate it! We lived in 2 houses from the time I was born until I graduated high school. My wife and her family moved around more. I also don't want to take on additional debt, plus reset the mortgage clock again since I refinanced only 2 years ago. I'm just getting comfortable financially so I'm not completely stressing every month about the mortgage plus I'm putting money away. We make a good living between the 2 of us, but neither of us is poised for a GIANT pay raise anytime soon.

I'm with you on moving. I'd like to downsize on living space and upsize on garage space, but I'd hate to sell the farm.

I'd love to sell the farm. Got enough land to build a race track if you wanted.



Do I hear any offers?

driver100

oldfarmer....interesting about how people don't update their house in fear of additional taxes. That is counterproductive.

A tour of Egypt was a real eye opener, completely dysfunctional system.

You can't get mortgages (can't borrow money) so people can take decades to build a home...they work on it as money comes in. If you build a house and rent it out....the rent stays the same forever. Since the economy isn't good people would rather leave new houses empty and rent them when the economy improves, otherwise you are stuck with that rate of rent forever.

Similar to freezing taxes if you don't make improvements

ab348

driver100 said:

You can't get mortgages (can't borrow money) so people can take decades to build a home...they work on it as money comes in. If you build a house and rent it out....the rent stays the same forever. Since the economy isn't good people would rather leave new houses empty and rent them when the economy improves, otherwise you are stuck with that rate of rent forever.

Interesting point. Sometimes we figure that the way things are here is the way they are everywhere. I know it was an eye-opener for me when I discovered that wasn't the case. One of the things I worked on in my career was a personal property lien registry. Most of us are familiar with the concept - you want a car, borrow the money to buy it, and the lender places a lien on the car to secure the loan. Seems normal to us.

I discovered that in many countries that is impossible to do because there is no such thing as a personal property registry. Organizations like the World Bank work to help governments in those places put those in place. The argument is that it helps the economy and improves the standard of living.

One of my proudest moments was one day in 2009 I came home from work and noticed a car parked at the curb next to my driveway. As I got out, the door of that car opened and a former co-worker got out to greet me. I hadn't seen her in a half-dozen years. I had hired her as the Personal Property Registrar for the province before I moved on. She came by to tell me she had accepted a job with the World Bank and was moving to the Far East to help bring the concept to countries there. It was a big job and she was going to make a lot of money, probably 3 times what I was making. I was so happy for her. She is still there so things must be going well.

imidazol97

nyccarguy said:

There is also the other side of the coin. Yes we could use more space NOW, but our oldest is 10 1/2 and will only be home for another 8 - 9 years at the most before he goes away to school. By that time, the room in the basement would be perfect for somebody in their late teens/ early 20s.

I don't know if I missed a description in the discussion about the basement bedroom, but is the proposed location of the bedroom in the basement in accord with zoning laws. Here I believe a bedroom has to have a window of a certain size and the bedroom cannot be in a room with a water heater. Here sometimes the utility room is a fair size and can serve as a bedroom except for the water heater clause.

stickguy

Depends if you want it legal or not. But yes you will need people sized egress point.

andres3

houdini1 said:

sb55 said:

I used to work right next to a Citi, branch, so that's the bank I used. I have 2 Citi credit cards, 1 personal and 1 business. I have no problems with them after what happened to me.
6 years ago my daughter was in the Peace Corps in Namibia (Africa). We went to visit her twice. The first time we went, whenever you went to a restaurant, they brought a credit card machine to the table and you never lost sight of your card. The 2nd time we went back, on the first night we got to Windhoek (largest city in Namibia) and we went to a restaurant that we had gone to on the 1st trip. This time they took my card. Being jet-lagged and exhausted after a 30 hour trip, I didn't question it. I remember that it took a long to bring the check and card back to the table. Partway through my trip, my card was denied. That was strange, as I paid my bill before I left and barely used it. When I got home, I found out that my card was cloned and they ran up about $15,000. in fraudulent charges. At stores in Namibia and South Africa. I was able to document where I travelled, so Citi made good on all of the charges.
After that, I have no complaints with their credit card department.

What really irks me about credit card fraud is that the merchants, banks, and police just sort of shake their heads and say, oh well, too bad. It is as if they don't want to catch the crooks. If someone walked into a bank with a gun and stole $15,000. an all points bulletin would be out immediately to shoot on sight, and that person would be tracked to the ends of the earth.

As some have already mentioned, many reasons law enforcement "gives up" and thieves get away with this. Still, an example of why traffic enforcement of an isolated 4- way stop sign where there was no other traffic is a poor use of resources. Right of way violation creating a hazard; all for it! Only moving car at the intersection within 250'; wasted time for all.

Most stop signs could be yield signs, but stop signs make better revenue apparently.

andres3

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

One of my remote coworkers bought a house in Brampton less than a year ago. He says its' value is up about 25%.

Best thing to do in that "tulip mania" environment is to sell before it all comes crashing down. I remember a similar situation in places like Las Vegas prior to 2008. By 2010 you could buy your house back for 50% or less.

They have been saying prices will drop for about 30 years now, and they just keep going higher. They dipped about 10% during the 2008 recession, but we didn't have those phony no money down mortgages. There is something to be said for regulating the banks....to some degree.

Or if you don't regulate them, let the free market regulate them out of existence sans bailouts.

But, as @fintail pointed out, the government doing something (or not doing something) in the banks interest is near nil.

All you have to do is tell people the world will end without the banks and you get at least 700 billion dollars.

andres3

driver100 said:

Edmund's gave it 3 stars out of 5, no mention of actual transmission problems, though I am not doubting it. I found this informative:
There are many great choices for a small crossover this year. The redesigned Ford Escape provides perhaps the most formidable alternative, with a fresher look and an equally engaging drive. The Kia Sportage is another sporty choice, while the freshly revised Honda CR-V and ever-popular Toyota RAV4 offer more cargo space. Buyers shopping in this class should spend time with several candidates, as all have specific strengths and quirks. But for a nicely appointed crossover that drives like a quick, small car, the 2013 Nissan Rogue is a solid pick.

and,

pros

Smooth ride
Capable handling
Quick acceleration
High-quality cabin
Comfortable front seats.
cons

Short on cargo room and versatility
CVT causes engine drone
Lacks V6 option
Poor rearward visibility.

IMO, some cars are OK, but unless you get an amazing deal, I don't understand why someone wouldn't go for the leaders in that segment of the market.

Looks, which are subjective, do sell cars. Also, aggressive salesman might talk people into buying a car at the first dealership they visit, so they don't get an opportunity to test drive the superior cars at other dealerships.

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

That generation of Rogue had lots of transmission issues.

Yeah, they weren't great in a lot of ways. I remember reading about a persistent driveline vibration or harmonics issue over several model years. They aren't the best looking CUV at the rodeo either, though the current midel looks much better. It seems to get lousy reviews though, mostly for the driving experience. I really like how the current version looks.

So sometimes quick deprciation is earned.

Depreciation is usually calculated from MSRP, so the companies that like to dream big on an MSRP no one ever pays start out the depreciation on a steep downhill trend before you even buy it.

andres3

abacomike said:

Got up early this morning - wanted to do some early food shopping before the contractor who blows out the dryer vents in our building starts his annual trek through the condo units.  Went down to the car and couldn't see more than 200 feet in front of me - fog as thick as pea soup because of all the rain yesterday.  So, back upstairs to wait it out until the sun burns it off.  Ugh!

Doesn't a BMW 740 have fog lights standard?

fintail

They sure don't in Seattle. Transportation infrastructure never compensates for new developments, and I have no doubt other infrastructure such as the power grid or water/sewer follows suit. Not surprising in a system that bows down and bends over to anything linked to real estate or property development.

berri said:

Perhaps I'm a cynic, but I don't believe developers ever really pay their fair share. As house prices rise spurring developers, the increased value of the current homes tends to lead to property tax increases. I don't think in that scenario gov costs remain pretty much the same. There are new water and sewer extensions, roads improvements, additional school requirements, etc. You don't think the real estate developers are footing all of that??? Current homeowners end up covering some of it with their newly inflated property tax bills.

abacomike

andres3 said:

abacomike said:

Got up early this morning - wanted to do some early food shopping before the contractor who blows out the dryer vents in our building starts his annual trek through the condo units.  Went down to the car and couldn't see more than 200 feet in front of me - fog as thick as pea soup because of all the rain yesterday.  So, back upstairs to wait it out until the sun burns it off.  Ugh!

Doesn't a BMW 740 have fog lights standard?

Haven't gotten that far in my Genius Lessons on what the darn thing has and where to find it. Thank goodness the headlights are automatically turned on when it's dark enough or when the windshield wipers are working or I'd have gotten a ton of traffic violations for not driving with my headlights on. I assume it's one of the buttons on the lower left side of the dashboard instrument panel where the headlight switch is surrounded by 4 different buttons. Have to remind myself to look that up when I get the chance - maybe one of those buttons is the fog light enabler - who the heck knows. At least I can get from one place to another - just not when there is fog!

suydam

Isn't there -- ahem -- a manual that comes with the car? Or is that too lowly these days? My Volt has an app that, among other things, lets you access the manual online.

imidazol97

GM manuals for recent years are on the car brand website, downloadable in .pdf format. It's more convenient to have on my computer than in my glovebox.

fintail

MBs have a manual in COMAND (accessible via the nav screen), and there are also phone apps along with the online access. It is pretty handy. The cars still come with fairly large printed manuals, but I doubt the majority of owners ever read them, rather just seeking specific subjects via electronic means.

jwm40517

@nyccarguy If you need a little more room, I found a nice house for you in Lexington, Ky . It has 6 bedrooms and 6 baths with a full walkout basement. 2 1/2 stories with large decks on 2 levels. A 2 car garage at 1st floor level and another 2 car in the basement. Hardwood floors and huge windows across the rear looking at a nice lake. 20 years old in really nice neighborhood, .62 acre lot and the house has 7445 sq feet. Property taxes about $8000 per year. You will need to add a little money as the asking price is $749,000.

nyccarguy

jwm40517 said:

@nyccarguy If you need a little more room, I found a nice house for you in Lexington, Ky . It has 6 bedrooms and 6 baths with a full walkout basement. 2 1/2 stories with large decks on 2 levels. A 2 car garage at 1st floor level and another 2 car in the basement. Hardwood floors and huge windows across the rear looking at a nice lake. 20 years old in really nice neighborhood, .62 acre lot and the house has 7445 sq feet. Property taxes about $8000 per year. You will need to add a little money as the asking price is $749,000.

Sounds fantastic! I just need to come up with a LOT more money and find a source of income in Lexington, KY that will allow us to buy such a house. How are the public schools there?

ab348

imidazol97 said:

I don't know if I missed a description in the discussion about the basement bedroom, but is the proposed location of the bedroom in the basement in accord with zoning laws. Here I believe a bedroom has to have a window of a certain size and the bedroom cannot be in a room with a water heater. Here sometimes the utility room is a fair size and can serve as a bedroom except for the water heater clause.

Yes, in most places a "legal" bedroom requires code compliance which includes some of the things you mentioned along with an egress window if there is no basement door to the outside.

My house had a nicely finished bedroom downstairs when I bought it, likely done by the homeowner and some of his buddies. Over the years I discovered two code-related issues. First, the electrical panel was on the basement wall in the area of the bedroom. Rather than relocate that, they built the bedroom's closet so that the panel was in there, separated from the clothes storage area by a floor to ceiling wall that extended perhaps a foot into the closet. When the electrical service was being upgraded a while ago that was deemed to be a no-no so the panel had to move. $$$.

The second thing was just recently when I was getting the cheap old aluminum slider windows replaced. The window guy walked in, saw the window, asked if there was another exit, and said I had to have an egress window. They found the opening was just large enough to accommodate one and so now that is in, $800 later as the opening needed significant alteration. The window is rather underwhelming, just a full-size thermopane window in a frame hinged at the top and latched at the bottom by a pair of fairly utilitarian catches. It opens inward and will hold a partly opened position for ventilation or you can swing it all the way to the top to expose the full opening to let you exit out the window.

ab348

Pretty much at the low point of phase II of the renos here and I am suffering a case of renovation fatigue. Entry hall is ready for new flooring but that must wait until the bathroom work is further along. Bathroom electrical is done, gutting of old stuff finally completed today (I had a working toilet and sink until now) and the plumbers installed most of the new rough-in today. They had a surprising number of problems. Even though the old plumbing seemed to work fine they said the drains were in poor condition and the sink drain connections in the wall fell apart when they were no longer supported by the vanity. New vent connections required as well. Tomorrow they do the last of the rough-in and the contractor is supposed to hang the new walls. Then the shower is tiled, fixtures and flooring installed, finish work, trim and paint. I figure on at least another 2 weeks.

explorerx4

Someone on our street just sold their house.
Didn't even get to sign a sales contract with a realtor, when they got a call from a family a couple of streets away asking if they could come over and see the house.
I guess the word got out at the bus stop or something.
They looked at it and made an offer on the spot.
I guess there isn't much in 400 to 800k range around for sale.

jwm40517

Nyccarguy, if you want to spend only $ 500,000 there are plenty of choices of homes with over 5000 sq feet and 5 or 6 bedrooms.
Public schools are good here and lots of private ones. Some are expensive, I had to laugh recently when a friend said he would be glad when his son graduated from high school this year and started college at UK so he would save on tuition.

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back in the 50s, for every tax dollar you paid out, corporations paid out $1.50.

In 2017, for every tax dollar you pay out, corporations pay out about .25 cents

This puts most governments into deficit, so they borrow, and if your wages don't go up year after year, then you borrow, too.

And who lends everyone the money? Exactly.

Ain't life grand?

But is that because corporate taxes have gone down or because individual taxes have gone up? Statistics can be made to say many things.

Both have gone down on the higher end of the income scale.

If you made $50K a year:

1953--25.2%
2012--17.1%

If you made $500K a year:

1953--60%
2012--30%

If you made $10 million a year:

1953--90%
2012--34%

So the more you make, the larger the better the tax break...this is what we call a "regressive tax" system.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Depends if you want it legal or not. But yes you will need people sized egress point.

When I built I had to rip out an installed 3' wide window, cut a bigger hole, reframe the opening and put in a 4' wide window because the building inspector said so. Why he didn't say so as he inspected the rough opening of the frame is still a mystery.

qbrozen

7400 sq ft on little more than half an acre? Any grass or does it take up the whole lot?

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Pretty much at the low point of phase II of the renos here and I am suffering a case of renovation fatigue. Entry hall is ready for new flooring but that must wait until the bathroom work is further along. Bathroom electrical is done, gutting of old stuff finally completed today (I had a working toilet and sink until now) and the plumbers installed most of the new rough-in today. They had a surprising number of problems. Even though the old plumbing seemed to work fine they said the drains were in poor condition and the sink drain connections in the wall fell apart when they were no longer supported by the vanity. New vent connections required as well. Tomorrow they do the last of the rough-in and the contractor is supposed to hang the new walls. Then the shower is tiled, fixtures and flooring installed, finish work, trim and paint. I figure on at least another 2 weeks.

What does such an extensive renovation cost...if I may be so bold to ask. I may have to repair my crumbling infrastructure in the near future.

cdnpinhead

The rule I was told years ago that the egress window for a bedroom needed to be a minimum of 10% of the floor area, but that was an Edmonton building code from 1973. What that really meant was that one didn't call a downstairs room a bedroom on the drawing submitted for the permit.

abacomike

suydam said:

Isn't there -- ahem -- a manual that comes with the car? Or is that too lowly these days? My Volt has an app that, among other things, lets you access the manual online.

I think there's one in the trunk.  Also, on the hard drive of the car.  I also downloaded an app that has the answer to every imaginable question you would have about the 740i - I just don't like reading answers - I'm a tactile learner - I need to touch switches and buttons to see what they do.  I am not a good auditory or visual learner.  Any other comments?  

suydam

Well, location of the fog light button should be pretty easy to find.
I can't tell you how many times I've tried to figure out where something is located -- and once I see it it's like, well duh. How could I miss that?!!

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

What does such an extensive renovation cost...if I may be so bold to ask. I may have to repair my crumbling infrastructure in the near future.

The estimate was for the downstairs re-do (rip out all old finishes, put in a proper floor, add a full bathroom/laundry, finish about half the space as new, keeping the remainder as storage space) and the upstairs (replace main bath, remove & repair entry hall floor, all new finishes) all as one estimate, which was around $30K including our 15% sales tax. Keep in mind this is all in worthless Canadian dollars. I think it will be well worth it in the end. The place was looking pretty tired.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ImTsyQ6g_sE

sda

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

What does such an extensive renovation cost...if I may be so bold to ask. I may have to repair my crumbling infrastructure in the near future.

The estimate was for the downstairs re-do (rip out all old finishes, put in a proper floor, add a full bathroom/laundry, finish about half the space as new, keeping the remainder as storage space) and the upstairs (replace main bath, remove & repair entry hall floor, all new finishes) all as one estimate, which was around $30K including our 15% sales tax. Keep in mind this is all in worthless Canadian dollars. I think it will be well worth it in the end. The place was looking pretty tired.

I have found there is nothing easy or cheap with renovation projects, yet worth it. When do you take the Cutlass out for the first spring drive?

driver100

imidazol97 said:

GM manuals for recent years are on the car brand website, downloadable in .pdf format. It's more convenient to have on my computer than in my glovebox.

Unless you are on I-75 1000 miles from home and want to know how something works.

driver100

Ab, it sounds like your plumbers and workers are working at it constantly at least. What I hate about renovations is they usually start, and then the guy has 3 or 4 other jobs going at the same time.....and then you wonder when he is coming back to finish what he started. Sometimes I think moving is easier!

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

What does such an extensive renovation cost...if I may be so bold to ask. I may have to repair my crumbling infrastructure in the near future.

The estimate was for the downstairs re-do (rip out all old finishes, put in a proper floor, add a full bathroom/laundry, finish about half the space as new, keeping the remainder as storage space) and the upstairs (replace main bath, remove & repair entry hall floor, all new finishes) all as one estimate, which was around $30K including our 15% sales tax. Keep in mind this is all in worthless Canadian dollars. I think it will be well worth it in the end. The place was looking pretty tired.

Yikes! I'm not sure which sticker shock I'm stunned by, the $30k price or the 15% sales tax.

Even in "real" money that's double what I figured.

driver100

Just for a joke a guy put his house up for sale on Kijiji (- like CL in Canada). He thought he might get an offer in a few weeks but he got an offer within 15 minutes. He told the guy he had to leave the house so would get back to him. The guy said he would buy now. Seller said you have to be here in 15 minutes to see it. Guy got there looked around, put $50k down, and bought the house for $980000.

House sells online in Milton On in 15 minutes

driver100

Fifty years ago, a young couple paid $27,000 for a modest home in Don Mills (part of Toronto). That approximately 1,500-square-foot house sold for $2.3 million, more than $1.15 million over the nearly $1.19 list price on Wednesday.

fintail

That's similar to experiences around Seattle too - well, not 2MM, but there are houses that were 25K in 1965 that are 1MM+ now. And don't ask about the funding sources of the new buyer.

driver100 said:

Fifty years ago, a young couple paid $27,000 for a modest home in Don Mills (part of Toronto). That approximately 1,500-square-foot house sold for $2.3 million, more than $1.15 million over the nearly $1.19 list price on Wednesday.

fintail

Build upwards (also probably counting a finished basement). Around here, there is no shortage of cliched 3 story mcmodern boxes to best utilize small lot sizes.

qbrozen said:

7400 sq ft on little more than half an acre? Any grass or does it take up the whole lot?

cdnpinhead

abacomike said:

I am not a good auditory or visual learner.

That doesn't leave much.

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

abacomike said:

I am not a good auditory or visual learner.

That doesn't leave much.

Touchy, feely maybe!

Mr_Shiftright

infra-red?

ab348

driver100 said:

Ab, it sounds like your plumbers and workers are working at it constantly at least. What I hate about renovations is they usually start, and then the guy has 3 or 4 other jobs going at the same time.....and then you wonder when he is coming back to finish what he started. Sometimes I think moving is easier!

I've had a few of those days where they were involved in other jobs and nothing was happening here, but most of those had a reason for the downtime - waiting on a trade or materials to arrive.

@oldfarmer50 - about the cheapest new bathroom I've seen runs about $5K for the most basic. The cost can be reduced if you can DIY some of the work, but I can't do that right now. To my surprise, one of the biggest and certainly dirtiest jobs was the demo phase. Literally tons of stuff to carry out and haul away.

thebean

oldfarmer50 said:

What does such an extensive renovation cost...if I may be so bold to ask. I may have to repair my crumbling infrastructure in the near future.

The estimate was for the downstairs re-do (rip out all old finishes, put in a proper floor, add a full bathroom/laundry, finish about half the space as new, keeping the remainder as storage space) and the upstairs (replace main bath, remove & repair entry hall floor, all new finishes) all as one estimate, which was around $30K including our 15% sales tax. Keep in mind this is all in worthless Canadian dollars. I think it will be well worth it in the end. The place was looking pretty tired.

Yikes! I'm not sure which sticker shock I'm stunned by, the $30k price or the 15% sales tax.

Even in "real" money that's double what I figured.

That didn't surprise me a bit, and I haven't had a re-do done in a long time.  Quality renovations cost a bunch.  That's why we are happy with our outdated house. 

ab348

sda said:

I have found there is nothing easy or cheap with renovation projects, yet worth it. When do you take the Cutlass out for the first spring drive?

Should be soon. Usually would already have been out by now but the weather has been atrocious. We had some sleet and scattered snow over the weekend. Seems spring is at least a couple of weeks late.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

I'm against the idea of moving. I hate it! We lived in 2 houses from the time I was born until I graduated high school. My wife and her family moved around more. I also don't want to take on additional debt, plus reset the mortgage clock again since I refinanced only 2 years ago. I'm just getting comfortable financially so I'm not completely stressing every month about the mortgage plus I'm putting money away. We make a good living between the 2 of us, but neither of us is poised for a GIANT pay raise anytime soon.

I'm with you on moving. I'd like to downsize on living space and upsize on garage space, but I'd hate to sell the farm.

I'd love to sell the farm. Got enough land to build a race track if you wanted.



Do I hear any offers?

Yeah, I'm in.

I'll sign over my $85 IRS refund check. Getting a patch of land is better than getting some drunken chicken dish at Denney's like @driver100 has been suggesting. :@

The way I look at it is, they ain't making no more land but chickens can be hatched, grown and served up drunk in a couple months. Or I can just let em run around in the yard till I can get them to Denney's.

jmonroe

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Back in the 50s, for every tax dollar you paid out, corporations paid out $1.50.

In 2017, for every tax dollar you pay out, corporations pay out about .25 cents

This puts most governments into deficit, so they borrow, and if your wages don't go up year after year, then you borrow, too.

And who lends everyone the money? Exactly.

Ain't life grand?

But is that because corporate taxes have gone down or because individual taxes have gone up? Statistics can be made to say many things.

Both have gone down on the higher end of the income scale.

If you made $50K a year:

1953--25.2%
2012--17.1%

If you made $500K a year:

1953--60%
2012--30%

If you made $10 million a year:

1953--90%
2012--34%

So the more you make, the larger the better the tax break...this is what we call a "regressive tax" system.

The marginal rates are very deceptive. There were many, many more income income writeoffs in 1953 then today. Essentially nobody paid anywhere near 90 percent and nobody should. That's no longer tax, it's confiscation. BTW, last I checked, 34 percent is still more than 17.1, so no that DOES NOT constitute a regressive tax. I can dream up 150 percent tax, give you a half off and then call it a "regressive tax break for the rich", but you'd still pay 75 percent.

BTW, 34% of 10 million is $3.4M. 17 percent of $50k is $18.5k. One can argue rich guy gets more from the government in terms indirect protection. This may be true, but I think he pays s fair share. We could and may have to ask him for more at some point, when we get seerious about paying off our debt (not happening soon), we but should at least ask nicely and not beat up on him saying he's not paying his fair share.