Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

jmonroe

ab348 said:

jmonroe said:

The guy at the Firestone store thought my Genny WAS a Bentley when I pulled in front of his stores big glass window right after I got it in June of '15 and wanted to get my tires balanced.

Understandable error given how Hyundai copied the winged Bentley badge design for Genesis.

That was definitely the reason.

But who copied Bentley first? Was it Mini, or Genesis (of those two it was probably the Mini). I'm not going to even put the poor copy that Chrysler did in this discussion.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe said:

berri said:

If you want a relatively cheap sorta Bentley looking car, just buy a Chrysler 300

The guy at the Firestone store thought my Genny WAS a Bentley when I pulled in front of his stores big glass window right after I got it in June of '15 and wanted to get my tires balanced.

So far, that's the only comment I've gotten about it, lefthanded or otherwise. :@

jmonroe

It's because of the rip off Bentley Flying Spur badge.





Bentley should sue "hyundai". Mercedes should sue for plagiarism on the back end and Aston Martin for the front end.

driver100

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

berri said:

If you want a relatively cheap sorta Bentley looking car, just buy a Chrysler 300

The guy at the Firestone store thought my Genny WAS a Bentley when I pulled in front of his stores big glass window right after I got it in June of '15 and wanted to get my tires balanced.

So far, that's the only comment I've gotten about it, lefthanded or otherwise. :@

jmonroe

I had someone think my '02 Saturn L300 was a Cadillac. Not sure what that says - about the car or the observer.

Maybe a Cimmaron....about the same size!

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

berri said:

If you want a relatively cheap sorta Bentley looking car, just buy a Chrysler 300

The guy at the Firestone store thought my Genny WAS a Bentley when I pulled in front of his stores big glass window right after I got it in June of '15 and wanted to get my tires balanced.

So far, that's the only comment I've gotten about it, lefthanded or otherwise. :@

jmonroe

It's because of the rip off Bentley Flying Spur badge.





Bentley should sue "hyundai". Mercedes should sue for plagiarism on the back end and Aston Martin for the front end.

The one with the "B" doesn't look as good but it sure does have a lot more cachet.

I've always said, "if you're going to copy, do it well".

It's like inventions. It's not who did it first...it's who improved on it the best.

Think Japanese car manufactures.

jmonroe

js06gv

Michaell said:

js06gv said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

berri said:

If you want a relatively cheap sorta Bentley looking car, just buy a Chrysler 300

The guy at the Firestone store thought my Genny WAS a Bentley when I pulled in front of his stores big glass window right after I got it in June of '15 and wanted to get my tires balanced.

So far, that's the only comment I've gotten about it, lefthanded or otherwise. :@

jmonroe

I had someone think my '02 Saturn L300 was a Cadillac. Not sure what that says - about the car or the observer.

There was always something about that L-Series that was Catera-ish to me.

Mine was pewter with chrome wheels - definitely had Cadillac-ish looks to it.

Which would make it just like about 90% of Cadillacs of that era lol.

graphicguy

Just picked up the Cobra for it's annual checkup. All's good. Brakes were bled and feel great. Oil change and tire rotation (2K miles). Independent mechanic says she's perfect and ready for summer. Think the top will be good for another season, too.

It has the '90s era MACH stereo that was Ford's top unit at the time. Not going to blow today's in-car stereos away. But, I treated it to a new FM modulation unit which will stream from my iPhone my calls and tunes. Plugs right into the cigarette lighter (not a power port, but a real cigarette lighter). And, I always have the cassette deck and CD player to use. Yes, I still have some cassettes.

Doesn't sound bad!

thebean

jmonroe said:

If you want a relatively cheap sorta Bentley looking car, just buy a Chrysler 300

The guy at the Firestone store thought my Genny WAS a Bentley when I pulled in front of his stores big glass window right after I got it in June of '15 and wanted to get my tires balanced.

So far, that's the only comment I've gotten about it, lefthanded or otherwise. :@

jmonroe

How thick were his glasses?

andres3

I found the one big flaw with Infiniti's new pricey Q50S Red-Sport 400:

Curb weight (lbs)
3,853

That's about previous generation S4 territory, and this is from the RWD unit; I'd imagine the AWD is at least 100 lbs more then that; actually; it's worse:

Curb weight (lbs)
4,005

At these weights you'll need the 400 HP and 350 lb/ft. of torque. The regular 3.0TT is actually a bit lighter; smaller brakes and tires is probably a chunk of that.

Also, did you Infinity fans say you hated the steering in certain versions? Is that the standard steering, or the optional higher priced (I'm guessing) optional "direct adaptive steering?" that you hated, and the other you liked?

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

I'm tellin ya, it's a Florida thing - must be the relentless sun and bath salts at work

Funny, like the one I posted, the ad is in CL Atlanta, quite a distance away. Wonder if this is some elaborate scam.

andres3

Who at Infinity thought it a good idea to only offer the Q50 without a moonroof if you get the basest model with no sport features and the 2.0T. The 2.0T is lighter, a good thing, but not really that much lighter than the 3.0TT.

If you want the minimum bell or whistle with your ride, you have to get the moonroof! 0.7" penalty front and rear for headroom.

oldfarmer50

Now that's a lotta cars. Anybody see a familiar name? None of the top sellers are near me.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/crain/an1441850607BCEKP_supp/index.php#/2

stickguy

because most people spending that much money for a luxury/premium brand expect a moonroof. Way more than the tiny slice that care about COG for track days.

stickguy

3 and 14 are near me. Penske is the big automall near TJC (with their own test track). Holman is big and actually headquartered/founded locall. Piazza is over in the PA burbs of Philly.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5YvY6yFJfhQ

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah...if you kinda squint a little...sure.....

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

I'm tellin ya, it's a Florida thing - must be the relentless sun and bath salts at work

Funny, like the one I posted, the ad is in CL Atlanta, quite a distance away. Wonder if this is some elaborate scam.

I still think it looks like a 2006 Pixar.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Just picked up the Cobra for it's annual checkup. All's good. Brakes were bled and feel great. Oil change and tire rotation (2K miles). Independent mechanic says she's perfect and ready for summer. Think the top will be good for another season, too.

It has the '90s era MACH stereo that was Ford's top unit at the time. Not going to blow today's in-car stereos away. But, I treated it to a new FM modulation unit which will stream from my iPhone my calls and tunes. Plugs right into the cigarette lighter (not a power port, but a real cigarette lighter). And, I always have the cassette deck and CD player to use. Yes, I still have some cassettes.

Doesn't sound bad!

All you need is a baseball cap and be sure to wear it backwards.

driver100

It would be easy to mistake that for a Bentley:

fintail

When I rented from Hertz at ATL 6 months ago, they offered to upsell me into a base 2.0 Q50. Can't recall if it had a moonroof, but it had nothing else, and had not exactly been babied. I didn't go for it.

andres3 said:

Who at Infinity thought it a good idea to only offer the Q50 without a moonroof if you get the basest model with no sport features and the 2.0T. The 2.0T is lighter, a good thing, but not really that much lighter than the 3.0TT.

If you want the minimum bell or whistle with your ride, you have to get the moonroof! 0.7" penalty front and rear for headroom.

fintail

Nah, these things would be cheaper or with weirder descriptions. I think they are just spamming CL, probably an ad in many major markets.

Also for the one I linked, Atlanta is probably the largest and richest nearby market aside from Miami, and also one not known for subtle refined taste.

oldfarmer50 said:

Funny, like the one I posted, the ad is in CL Atlanta, quite a distance away. Wonder if this is some elaborate scam.

driver100

fintail said:

When I rented from Hertz at ATL 6 months ago, they offered to upsell me into a base 2.0 Q50. Can't recall if it had a moonroof, but it had nothing else, and had not exactly been babied. I didn't go for it.

andres3 said:

Who at Infinity thought it a good idea to only offer the Q50 without a moonroof if you get the basest model with no sport features and the 2.0T. The 2.0T is lighter, a good thing, but not really that much lighter than the 3.0TT.

If you want the minimum bell or whistle with your ride, you have to get the moonroof! 0.7" penalty front and rear for headroom.

Renting from Hertz reminded me of this headline from a few days ago (Canada)

Hertz and Thrifty to pay $1.25M fine following advertising probe
Competition Bureau said companies were promoting prices that were unattainable because of mandatory fees systematically added to a customer’s bill.

The law enforcement agency said Hertz and Dollar Thrifty were advertising prices that were unattainable because of mandatory fees that were systematically added to a customer’s bill.

The bureau said the additional fees could increase the final price by as much as 10 to 57 per cent. The agency also said some of the fees were described in a way that implied that they were mandatory taxes or surcharges imposed by various governments when they were not.

Last year Avis and Budget got caught and paid almost 3X as much.

Wonder if this goes on elsewhere?

imidazol97

driver100 said:

Last year Avis and Budget got caught and paid almost 3X as much.

Wonder if this goes on elsewhere?

LOL. Now that understatement was my morning laugh. Businesses intentionally misrepresenting things to gullible consumers? Naaaah. LOL.

I have had the impression that Canada is much better at ferreting this stuff out than is the USA. Watching "Holmes on Homes" talking about requirements for home building and repairing was enlightening as well.

ab348

Actually Canada (in general) has very lax consumer protection/anti-competitive practices laws. Often they go unenforced and in many cases (i.e. cell providers) we tolerate quasi-monopolies in the private sector.

imidazol97

More than 150 words:

There has been quite a few comments about GM and Cadillac during the time with the problems about the wiring harness loosening on the 4-cyl Turbo engine. I've watched as the temperature of the comments increased to how awful this is. The impression I have now is that there were 3 known cases of the heat affecting the mechanical fasteners and letting the bundle of wiring move, possibly touching the CV axle.

It appears that this was being checked for using a silent recall technique, allegedly widely used by some foreign car makers in the 80s and 90s because it keeps the information, negative, out of the news cycle, and helps keep the public impression of the reliability higher than deserved.

The end fix for this, after what I assume to have been engineering looking at the cable design, was a change in the exhaust system location or sheathing. At first a reattachment technique was used for the cable bundles, which failed gloriously on GG's leaving the dealership. Second, the exhaust system was changed. All this redesign takes time. But Cadillac should not have made the time the problem it was for GG with his car sitting, unusable, in the shop.

For those that are critical of the time this takes, just recall the Monday morning quarterbacking on how the ignition switch spring pressure change occured for the ignition switch used in several of GM's vehicles, most notably the Cobalt. If GM rushed the change on the cable bundles without the proper signoffs and there was a problem, I'm sure the Monday guys would be kvetching about how they should have taken time. But they should have just traded or refunded GG out of the vehicle. Much like Honda was rumored to have done in 2003 or around that date, with vehicles that were exhibiting popping noises on body flexing.

I compared the commenting on this problem with the lack of interest in a vehicle with Shraeder valves that were leaking from the factory. AC systems are essentially transferable between car models so this was not a system with unique valves: the system could have been put on most of VW's models with changes only in capacity of the pump and other parts. Add to that the news still that VW's various models, and MB's as well, may not be meeting pollution requirements, intentionally or unintentionally. The diesel cheating was met with lukewarm indignation by many. Since VW was able to give back cash for fumes to make owners feel better about having polluters, that seemed to salve many minds. But that money was from the high profits some car makers have gleaned from the buyers of their products. GM has been saddled with higher US build costs in the UAW settlement from 2008-9.

Same comments about the sludging and the runaway acceleration of that other brand. The money was profits.

Agree or disagree on the Cadillac problem, I would not worry about buying a CTS with 4-cyl turbo today. I have yet to see a CTS, ATS, XTS on a flatbed being taken in for work. I have seen many other brands on flatbeds or being towed. My problem is the handling by Cadillac to make this not the consumers financial and time load. They didn't do that. Luckily GG had a second vehicle and bought a third which sounds like a joy to drive. But Cadillac did give a loaner(s) during that time. At the 3rd week, the Cadillac rep, who had talked so positively early on about a trade or buyback, should have said something to the effect "Here's our offer to end this for you, Mr. Guy." Perhaps putting the Nissan CEO in charge of Cadillac wasn't the best solution and perhaps keeping the headquarters in the down-to-earth Midwest in Detroit would have been a better solution that moving it to New York.

jmonroe

@driver100 said:

Last year Avis and Budget got caught and paid almost 3X as much.

Lets put a positive spin on this.

It looks like Hertz and Thrifty having to pay only a $1.25M fine shows that they learned something from what happened to Avis and Budget, right.

jmonroe

fintail

I'd have imagined the US would be more lax - anything goes, "capitalism", corporations are people too, we should worship them for paying taxes, etc. Canada does have some unusual business sector structures though, especially in telecom, insurance, housing data, weird dairy and beer cartels, among others.

For the rental car subject, I think it happens in Murka too. I've seen screamer ads for $9.99/day rentals - after taxes and fees, you aren't paying anything near that, although I think those are all government-mandated fees and not ones a corporation is pretending are from someone else. That's one thing I like about shopping in Europe - taxes are figured into the price. Pick something off the shelf or menu, and the price you see at choosing is the price you pay when the bill is due. Seems kind of deceptive to do it the other way.

Haven't seen any credible data about MB cheating emissions regulations, either. I have to imagine if it was true, a well-compensated and egoistic regulator would have announced it by now - that kind of thing is their meal ticket.

ab348 said:

Actually Canada (in general) has very lax consumer protection/anti-competitive practices laws. Often they go unenforced and in many cases (i.e. cell providers) we tolerate quasi-monopolies in the private sector.

fintail

Regarding winged badges, I think the higher end makers seldom bother to sue for design infringement, as doing so might have some try to say it is an admission that the derivative product is actual competition. BMW tried to sue over a knockoff X5, and lost, because China.

With VW owning Bentley, and BMW owning Rolls-Royce and Mini, maybe the winged Mini badge is just a way to show how things have changed in this new world.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

More than 150 words:

There has been quite a few comments about GM and Cadillac during the time with the problems about the wiring harness loosening on the 4-cyl Turbo engine. I've watched as the temperature of the comments increased to how awful this is. The impression I have now is that there were 3 known cases of the heat affecting the mechanical fasteners and letting the bundle of wiring move, possibly touching the CV axle.

It appears that this was being checked for using a silent recall technique, allegedly widely used by some foreign car makers in the 80s and 90s because it keeps the information, negative, out of the news cycle, and helps keep the public impression of the reliability higher than deserved.

The end fix for this, after what I assume to have been engineering looking at the cable design, was a change in the exhaust system location or sheathing. At first a reattachment technique was used for the cable bundles, which failed gloriously on GG's leaving the dealership. Second, the exhaust system was changed. All this redesign takes time. But Cadillac should not have made the time the problem it was for GG with his car sitting, unusable, in the shop.

For those that are critical of the time this takes, just recall the Monday morning quarterbacking on how the ignition switch spring pressure change occured for the ignition switch used in several of GM's vehicles, most notably the Cobalt. If GM rushed the change on the cable bundles without the proper signoffs and there was a problem, I'm sure the Monday guys would be kvetching about how they should have taken time. But they should have just traded or refunded GG out of the vehicle. Much like Honda was rumored to have done in 2003 or around that date, with vehicles that were exhibiting popping noises on body flexing.

I compared the commenting on this problem with the lack of interest in a vehicle with Shraeder valves that were leaking from the factory. AC systems are essentially transferable between car models so this was not a system with unique valves: the system could have been put on most of VW's models with changes only in capacity of the pump and other parts. Add to that the news still that VW's various models, and MB's as well, may not be meeting pollution requirements, intentionally or unintentionally. The diesel cheating was met with lukewarm indignation by many. Since VW was able to give back cash for fumes to make owners feel better about having polluters, that seemed to salve many minds. But that money was from the high profits some car makers have gleaned from the buyers of their products. GM has been saddled with higher US build costs in the UAW settlement from 2008-9.

Same comments about the sludging and the runaway acceleration of that other brand. The money was profits.

Agree or disagree on the Cadillac problem, I would not worry about buying a CTS with 4-cyl turbo today. I have yet to see a CTS, ATS, XTS on a flatbed being taken in for work. I have seen many other brands on flatbeds or being towed. My problem is the handling by Cadillac to make this not the consumers financial and time load. They didn't do that. Luckily GG had a second vehicle and bought a third which sounds like a joy to drive. But Cadillac did give a loaner(s) during that time. At the 3rd week, the Cadillac rep, who had talked so positively early on about a trade or buyback, should have said something to the effect "Here's our offer to end this for you, Mr. Guy." Perhaps putting the Nissan CEO in charge of Cadillac wasn't the best solution and perhaps keeping the headquarters in the down-to-earth Midwest in Detroit would have been a better solution that moving it to New York.

imid....BRAVO! You put it succinctly and are correct in your assessment.

This is all after the fact musings, but just to add, I do business with GM Corporate in Warren, MI. I told one of the people I work with there (Director level) in their Technology depts about my Cadillac woes several weeks ago. He said if the arbitration hearing did not come out positively, he'd be able to help cut through the red tape internally to replace (not refund) my car.

He did some digging on his own for me. You're right about wiring harness not being properly "bound" causing the chafing with the half shaft, resulting in arcing and the burning of a limited area in the engine bay. They first tried to just replace the fasteners with new wiring. As you pointed out, that failed. Then, they ran a re-route (actually computer designed in Warren Tech area) of the wiring. That meant new and different wiring, fasteners and associated parts. It also meant they had to pull the drivetrain to re-route and reinstall the wiring and the parts, which included replacing the entire exhaust system. My understanding, that's what took the longest.

If that was explained to me, and I was offered a resonable and timely solution, this might have gone differently. But, where Cadillac failed, they kept me mostly in the dark, and were at different times, appologetic one week and then arrogant the next. The times I contacted the dealership for an update, all I got was "we don't have the parts and the engine is out of your car and undriveable". Only when the arbitration date was closing in did they do their botch job, with the exhaust system installed hastily and incorrectly (I didn't even take it back for that faux pas).

It's difficult for me to accept that only 3 cars were affected. I have no way of proving or disproving this. And, Cadillac certainly had plenty of reasons to state it was only 3 cars. Maybe it was. But, I'm thinking maybe it was only 3 cars affected in the Cincinnati region. Nationally? Who knows? I'm not motivated to dig into it any more, though.

The other question...why did the other two CTS's in my area only take a couple of weeks to fix, where mine took months?

No matter.....it was very aggravating....and at times stressful. I knew I was right, so that kept me pressing on. But, if it weren't for you guys encouraging me to fight the good fight, I might have taken it to Carfax and let them write me a check. I figured I would have lost at least $20,000 going that route, probably more. In the end, it cost Cadillac a customer, a refund of what I consider well over what they sold it to the dealership for, and an extra few thousand for all my time and energy expended to fight them.

Not a good business decision on their part.

roadburner

For those that don't monitor the Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous topic, I picked up a 104,000 mile 2009 Mini Clubman. It belonged to the daughter of some good friends and it has had all the major issues addressed within the last several thousand miles. It should be relatively inexpensive to run as it averages over 33 mpg and has 15" wheels with conventional tires. Unlike most base Coopers it has a pretty comprehensive option set- navigation, Comfort Access, leather sport seats, Cold Weather Package, Convenience Package, and Premium Package. It's replacing the X3, so my bride finally has the Mini she has always wanted:

Michaell

@roadburner - are you selling the X3 privately? Or, is it going to your son and then cutting the 3-series loose from the herd?

roadburner

Michaell said:

@roadburner - are you selling the X3 privately? Or, is it going to your son and then cutting the 3-series loose from the herd?

The X3 is on the block, a friend has already told me he wants it so it may be gone in 3-4 days.

cdnpinhead

Two questions that have probably been answered previously, but my feeble memory fails: 1) what's your boy driving these days; was the X3 last I remember & 2) is the mini a manual?

roadburner

cdnpinhead said:

Two questions that have probably been answered previously, but my feeble memory fails: 1) what's your boy driving these days; was the X3 last I remember & 2) is the mini a manual?

My son is driving the 328i; he originally did have the X3 but my wife really never bonded with the 328i so they decided to swap. The Mini has an autobox, as that's what my wife prefers.

oldfarmer50

Oh oh time to book my flight to Florida.

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/6083537215.html



This is so quirky and they made so few of them that this might be collectable in another 40 years.

qbrozen

that will never be collectible. The last one could dissolve into dust and almost nobody would notice nor care.

Mr_Shiftright

You might have to wait longer than that--maybe as long as it took a roman chariot to become collectible. The last "real" Imperial was probably the 1981-83s----V8 engine, Cordoba platform but with unique sheet metal and instrumentation and other features.

stickguy

RB, if that was a stick, I would consider one. At the right price (with those miles, can't be too much). But only if it had a known history like yours. Meaning I will never find one!

ab348

@oldfarmer50 , I actually drove one of them for a few days 20-25 years ago. Odd car. It was narrow because of the K-car platform, but unlike the K-cars it had really soft suspension, way too soft really. "Adequate" power, nothing more. Super plush inside. But the driving dynamics were lousy and you always knew it was a K-car platform because it was so narrow. Can't imagine they sold many.

fintail

The Imperial is amusing, haven't seen one of those in ages, even here, where old cars thrive. I remember when those were new, and my young self was amazed anyone would buy one for the price asked when new. Today, as only the best 81-83s have any value, and even many 60s-70s ones aren't particularly expensive, I'd look at it as maybe a plush driver rather than future collectible.

ab348

Question for the financial/consumer credit wizards here: I just got a renewal credit card in the mail as the old one is about to expire. I had forgotten I even had this card. Haven't used it in a long time, probably the last transaction was over a year ago. The actual card was in my cuff links box on my dresser which I never open now that I don't need to dress in suits.

I have plenty of other cards so I don't need this one. I was thinking of just calling the bank to close it out. But it has a credit limit of $15K. I read somewhere that the credit rating agencies don't like to see your credit capacity decrease and will drop your rating score if they see cards being cancelled. Any insights?

stickguy

It's a factor of available credit used. But not likely to make much difference longterm. If your score is already really high, going from 790 to 785 is pretty much irrelevant.

But, if no fee, does not really matter if you keep it. I have a few of those I never bother with.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yeah...if you kinda squint a little...sure.....

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

I'm tellin ya, it's a Florida thing - must be the relentless sun and bath salts at work

Funny, like the one I posted, the ad is in CL Atlanta, quite a distance away. Wonder if this is some elaborate scam.

I still think it looks like a 2006 Pixar.

Maybe printed out on a 3-D printer??

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

You might have to wait longer than that--maybe as long as it took a roman chariot to become collectible. The last "real" Imperial was probably the 1981-83s----V8 engine, Cordoba platform but with unique sheet metal and instrumentation and other features.

Did it have "Corinthian" leather?

Mr_Shiftright

What IS Corinthian leather anyway? :@

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

What IS Corinthian leather anyway? :@

More than you ever wanted to know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_leather

breld

@roadburner - wow! That is a nicely equipped MINI, especially from that era. Just don't see too many with all those options.

roadburner

breld said:

@roadburner - wow! That is a nicely equipped MINI, especially from that era. Just don't see too many with all those options.

Yes, I'm thinking it might have been custom ordered.

driver100

ab348 said:

Actually Canada (in general) has very lax consumer protection/anti-competitive practices laws. Often they go unenforced and in many cases (i.e. cell providers) we tolerate quasi-monopolies in the private sector.

Ab, I would agree. I went to the competition bureau because a large monopoly company was trying to prevent me from getting retail store customers that they had lined up. They also tried to get suppliers to stop selling to me.

After a review they told me they wouldn't take on my case because it could cost them $million and it wasn't worth it, they actually said if it was beer or an oil company then it would be worth it for them to get involved.

Our competition bureau is pretty toothless. In the US if a supplier sells a customer goods, they can't cut them off because another company request it. That is only fair. If Sony sells TV sets to Smith TV store, then Best Buy should not be able to say to Sony you better stop selling to those guys.

driver100

Imid and GG. I agree problems can happen in any car and if there is a fix available then those things happen.

I think when all this happened Cadillac could have offered another car.......fixed GGs and sold it. If the car came from the factory and there was no dealer or commissions it wouldn't have been a big loss.

Makes no sense from a business standpoint. GG may even have bought another Caddie one day.

andres3

stickguy said:

because most people spending that much money for a luxury/premium brand expect a moonroof. Way more than the tiny slice that care about COG for track days.

Fair enough, but I have a feeling the "6' and Taller Club" is a substantial number that will dislike moon-roofs for the same reason I do; lack of head room.

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

What IS Corinthian leather anyway? :@

More than you ever wanted to know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_leather

Aha...apparently more like Corinth New Jersey---LOL!