Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

fintail said:

Unless it develops beyond allegations and accusations, I can't be too concerned. I have to consider the sources of these claims

If it's good enough for politicos, it is good enough for corporations who are people too, right?

imidazol97 said:

The video news mentioned "defeat devices" so I infer that means the cars might pass testing but like the VW/Audi and others of the VW family the cars actually intentionally turned off the pollution controls when not being tested...

Right on fintail....I learned in business rumors usually don't mean too much.....at least 10 false ones for every true one. So far, the testing for emissions is taking a long time as the EPA is being extra careful, don't want to be made to look like monkeys again.

I saw one of these todays and it is one of my favorite designed cars. Nice simple lines, neat design, lots of glass. I am not sure of the year, from at least 1980 to 2000 the 190 looked about the same - which is an indication of a great design. It did have 3 tailights on each side, low just above the bumper, one lens was amber.

imidazol97

Since the comment in the Auto News video is being poo poo'd, I decided to do more googling. When a possible loss makes it into the warnings of a company's quarterly report, it's usually something serious.

said:

Unless it develops beyond allegations and accusations,

Right on fintail....I learned in business rumors usually don't mean too much.....at least 10 false ones for every true one. So far, the testing for emissions is taking a long time as the EPA is being extra careful, don't want to be made to look like monkeys again.

"Daimler on Wednesday reiterated that recent steps by United States authorities to investigate diesel emissions pollution and so-called auxiliary emission control devices could lead to significant penalties and vehicle recalls.

"Daimler said in January 2017 that U.S. authorities appeared to have taken a tough stance on what constitutes an illegal defeat device, a step that could have implications for Mercedes-Benz in particular.

"Daimler said that in a notice of violation issued against another manufacturer in January that regulators identified functionalities "apparently including functionalities that are common in diesel"

Does Reuters deal in trivial rumors?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-daimler-emissions-diesel-idUSKBN17S0IU

"Mercedes-Benz’s diesel cars produced an average of 0.406g/km of NOx on the road, at least 2.2 times more than the official Euro 5 level and five times higher than the Euro 6 level. A spokesman for Mercedes-Benz said: “Since real-world driving conditions do not generally reflect those in the laboratory, the consumption figures may differ from the standardised figures.”

"Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi have joined the growing list of manufacturers whose diesel cars are known to emit significantly more pollution on the road than in regulatory tests, according to data obtained by the Guardian.

"“The VW issue in the US was purely the trigger which threw light on a slightly different problem in the EU - widespread legal over-emissions,” Molden said. “For NOx, [diesel] cars are on average four times over the legal limit, because of the lenient nature of the test cycle in the EU.” The Emissions Analytics tests showed 4x4s to have the highest NOx emissions, with several unnamed models emitting 15 times official levels and one more than 20 times.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

jmonroe

imidazol97 said:

Since the comment in the Auto News video is being poo poo'd, I decided to do more googling. When a possible loss makes it into the warnings of a company's quarterly report, it's usually something serious.

said:

Unless it develops beyond allegations and accusations,

Right on fintail....I learned in business rumors usually don't mean too much.....at least 10 false ones for every true one. So far, the testing for emissions is taking a long time as the EPA is being extra careful, don't want to be made to look like monkeys again.

"Daimler on Wednesday reiterated that recent steps by United States authorities to investigate diesel emissions pollution and so-called auxiliary emission control devices could lead to significant penalties and vehicle recalls.

"Daimler said in January 2017 that U.S. authorities appeared to have taken a tough stance on what constitutes an illegal defeat device, a step that could have implications for Mercedes-Benz in particular.

"Daimler said that in a notice of violation issued against another manufacturer in January that regulators identified functionalities "apparently including functionalities that are common in diesel"

Does Reuters deal in trivial rumors?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-daimler-emissions-diesel-idUSKBN17S0IU

"Mercedes-Benz’s diesel cars produced an average of 0.406g/km of NOx on the road, at least 2.2 times more than the official Euro 5 level and five times higher than the Euro 6 level. A spokesman for Mercedes-Benz said: “Since real-world driving conditions do not generally reflect those in the laboratory, the consumption figures may differ from the standardised figures.”

"Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi have joined the growing list of manufacturers whose diesel cars are known to emit significantly more pollution on the road than in regulatory tests, according to data obtained by the Guardian.

"“The VW issue in the US was purely the trigger which threw light on a slightly different problem in the EU - widespread legal over-emissions,” Molden said. “For NOx, [diesel] cars are on average four times over the legal limit, because of the lenient nature of the test cycle in the EU.” The Emissions Analytics tests showed 4x4s to have the highest NOx emissions, with several unnamed models emitting 15 times official levels and one more than 20 times.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

Since this is about a German car, this has to be "Fake News".

jmonroe

roadburner

This is the only 190E I covet:

driver100

I have known of Reuters to be wrong and bias.....yes.

I think this summary is pretty accurate as to what is in question; Note that GM has been caught making phony mileage claims btw, (say they miscalculated ) and the Opel Division has the same situation as Daimler regarding engines having to turn off their diesel emission control devices at times. Not the same as trying to beat the system which Reuters didn't explain too well.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a29293/vehicle-emissions-testing-scandal-cheating/

driver100

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

And subsidizing Tesla and Leaf drivers, too. I suspect the EV tax will be a pittance, more than compensated for by ridiculous tax credits.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Not in California. There's a new tax coming down the pike and it looks like diesel fuel will take something like a .20 cents a gallon spike. This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair. Increases in gas taxes are not peculiar to CA--some 17 states have raised gas taxes since 2013, and half of them are GOP-controlled, so it appears to be a bi-partisan solution in state government--since the Federal government won't do it.

There will also be an annual tax on electric vehicles and an increase in all vehicle registration fees.

The tax comes about due to decreased revenue from falling gas prices, higher fuel efficiency, more EVs and hybrids.

Since CA is the diesel car's largest market, it puts a little more grief into diesel car marketing, making diesel fuel more expensive than RUG now.

OK, let me understand this. CA gives you a tax credit for buying an EV but then taxes you to own it? Doesn't that seem a tad schizophernic?

abacomike

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I owned one RB - 1987 190E in light blue.  Sweet car but lousy in snow!

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

And subsidizing Tesla and Leaf drivers, too. I suspect the EV tax will be a pittance, more than compensated for by ridiculous tax credits.

Not in California. There's a new tax coming down the pike and it looks like diesel fuel will take something like a .20 cents a gallon spike. This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair. Increases in gas taxes are not peculiar to CA--some 17 states have raised gas taxes since 2013, and half of them are GOP-controlled, so it appears to be a bi-partisan solution in state government--since the Federal government won't do it.



There will also be an annual tax on electric vehicles and an increase in all vehicle registration fees.



The tax comes about due to decreased revenue from falling gas prices, higher fuel efficiency, more EVs and hybrids.



Since CA is the diesel car's largest market, it puts a little more grief into diesel car marketing, making diesel fuel more expensive than RUG now.

OK, let me understand this. CA gives you a tax credit for buying an EV but then taxes you to own it? Doesn't that seem a tad schizophernic?

No, but perhaps a bit "schizophrenic"!  Just pulling your left leg OF!  

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

And subsidizing Tesla and Leaf drivers, too. I suspect the EV tax will be a pittance, more than compensated for by ridiculous tax credits.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Not in California. There's a new tax coming down the pike and it looks like diesel fuel will take something like a .20 cents a gallon spike. This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair. Increases in gas taxes are not peculiar to CA--some 17 states have raised gas taxes since 2013, and half of them are GOP-controlled, so it appears to be a bi-partisan solution in state government--since the Federal government won't do it.

There will also be an annual tax on electric vehicles and an increase in all vehicle registration fees.

The tax comes about due to decreased revenue from falling gas prices, higher fuel efficiency, more EVs and hybrids.

Since CA is the diesel car's largest market, it puts a little more grief into diesel car marketing, making diesel fuel more expensive than RUG now.

Well not a pittance but not a burden for someone buying a $130K car---it's about $100 a year I've read. Not everyone who buys an EV or Hybrid in CA gets a rebate. Many of these programs are first-come, first-serve, depending on what's in the budget for them.

suydam

Not every EV is a $130k car. Most are in line with normal new car purchases. There's a new gas tax too. All to pay for roads and infrastructure. Adding more charging stations would be nice too.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

fintail

The W201 190 ran for model years 1984-93 in North America. A pretty long run, as they were identical save for a minor facelift and trim updates. They have a cult behind them for the 16 valve models, but a lot of people still dislike it, as it had the "baby Benz" moniker. I think the 80s styling looks clean and fresh compared to the overstyled overblown cars of so many brands today. The wheels on that are from a final run car, probably 1992-93. Looks like a "cereal marshmallows" car, too.

Those stickered around 30K back in the day, and a CLA can easily be found for 35K today. The brand isn't as exclusive as before.

driver100 said:

Right on fintail....I learned in business rumors usually don't mean too much.....at least 10 false ones for every true one. So far, the testing for emissions is taking a long time as the EPA is being extra careful, don't want to be made to look like monkeys again.

I saw one of these todays and it is one of my favorite designed cars. Nice simple lines, neat design, lots of glass. I am not sure of the year, from at least 1980 to 2000 the 190 looked about the same - which is an indication of a great design. It did have 3 tailights on each side, low just above the bumper, one lens was amber.

qbrozen

abacomike said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I owned one RB - 1987 190E in light blue.  Sweet car but lousy in snow!

I didn't have a Cosworth version, but my 2.6 was one of the best snow vehicles I have ever had when I put a set of new snow tires on it. 

fintail

The link at The Guardian also says:

"There is no evidence of illegal activity"

The Guardian link also claims MB says it supports tightening the regulations. Why would the company do that if it was cheating?

If lab conditions don't replicate real world conditions, is the problem with the car or the lab? Or maybe the definition of real world conditions?

Some ask us to be patient for facts when there are allegations against celebrities, even ones who gain insane power. I'll do the same here.

I do find it charming that some rush to embrace any possible difficult news by foreign makers though, especially makers who have upset or fully conquered market segments in the US

imidazol97 said:

Since the comment in the Auto News video is being poo poo'd, I decided to do more googling. When a possible loss makes it into the warnings of a company's quarterly report, it's usually something serious.

fintail

$100 tax after a $10K tax break. Sounds legit! I suppose we should be lauding the people who buy $100K cars for paying taxes at all

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well not a pittance but not a burden for someone buying a $130K car---it's about $100 a year I've read. Not everyone who buys an EV or Hybrid in CA gets a rebate. Many of these programs are first-come, first-serve, depending on what's in the budget for them.

fintail

I definitely see how this:



Looks like this:

fintail

It's CA, where the best nuts come from

And of course as an American style progressive tax, the tax is 3% of the break.

oldfarmer50 said:

OK, let me understand this. CA gives you a tax credit for buying an EV but then taxes you to own it? Doesn't that seem a tad schizophernic?

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

And subsidizing Tesla and Leaf drivers, too. I suspect the EV tax will be a pittance, more than compensated for by ridiculous tax credits.

Not in California. There's a new tax coming down the pike and it looks like diesel fuel will take something like a .20 cents a gallon spike. This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair. Increases in gas taxes are not peculiar to CA--some 17 states have raised gas taxes since 2013, and half of them are GOP-controlled, so it appears to be a bi-partisan solution in state government--since the Federal government won't do it.





There will also be an annual tax on electric vehicles and an increase in all vehicle registration fees.





The tax comes about due to decreased revenue from falling gas prices, higher fuel efficiency, more EVs and hybrids.





Since CA is the diesel car's largest market, it puts a little more grief into diesel car marketing, making diesel fuel more expensive than RUG now.

OK, let me understand this. CA gives you a tax credit for buying an EV but then taxes you to own it? Doesn't that seem a tad schizophernic?











No, but perhaps a bit "schizophrenic"!  Just pulling your left leg OF!  

Believe it or not it was spell check that reversed the e and r . Go figure. My spelling was even worse.

cdnpinhead

Mr_Shiftright said:

This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair.

Hide and watch. The last three times it didn't work out that way. Money meant for transportation infrastructure, specifically roads, ended up in the general fund. The goal is to get people out of cars while sucking money from the people who drive them, for now.

Michaell

There has been a big push here in CO to find some funding for the infrastructure. It's a big mess - there are so many contradicting issues in the state constitution that trying to fund anything is a nightmare. There have been some bi-partisan attempts to solve it, but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen before the legislative session ends.

stickguy

That's why the gas tax in NJ jumped so much. But roads and bridges still suck

driver100

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

And subsidizing Tesla and Leaf drivers, too. I suspect the EV tax will be a pittance, more than compensated for by ridiculous tax credits.

Not in California. There's a new tax coming down the pike and it looks like diesel fuel will take something like a .20 cents a gallon spike. This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair. Increases in gas taxes are not peculiar to CA--some 17 states have raised gas taxes since 2013, and half of them are GOP-controlled, so it appears to be a bi-partisan solution in state government--since the Federal government won't do it.





There will also be an annual tax on electric vehicles and an increase in all vehicle registration fees.





The tax comes about due to decreased revenue from falling gas prices, higher fuel efficiency, more EVs and hybrids.





Since CA is the diesel car's largest market, it puts a little more grief into diesel car marketing, making diesel fuel more expensive than RUG now.

OK, let me understand this. CA gives you a tax credit for buying an EV but then taxes you to own it? Doesn't that seem a tad schizophernic?











No, but perhaps a bit "schizophrenic"!  Just pulling your left leg OF!  

Isn't that getting political......why "left' leg?

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

driver100

fintail said:

I definitely see how this:



Looks like this:

Yeh, the colors are almost exactly the same!

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

When did I ever say I wanted my car to be comparable to a Mercedes? I wanted something beyond that. I don't want to be afraid to own it when it is out of warranty. When is the last time you had a 6 year old car in the last 10 years?

When you buy a sought after badged car your car should not look like a K-car from Detroit.

You should get what you pay for. I didn't pay so I didn't get anything unexpected. That's only fair.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

cdnpinhead said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair.

Hide and watch. The last three times it didn't work out that way. Money meant for transportation infrastructure, specifically roads, ended up in the general fund. The goal is to get people out of cars while sucking money from the people who drive them, for now.

Exactly. We hear that same"infrastructure" nonsense here as well but they spend 70% of the money buying votes with different intrest groups.

ab348

driver100 said:

Yeh, the colors are almost exactly the same!

And they each have 4 wheels and horizontal taillights. Two peas in a pod!!!

ab348

fintail said:

The Guardian link also claims MB says it supports tightening the regulations. Why would the company do that if it was cheating?

Come, come, Fin. That's no different than tobacco (or weed) companies saying they support keeping their products out of the hands of kids.

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

When did I ever say I wanted my car to be comparable to a Mercedes? I wanted something beyond that. I don't want to be afraid to own it when it is out of warranty. When is the last time you had a 6 year old car in the last 10 years?

When you buy a sought after badged car your car should not look like a K-car from Detroit.

You should get what you pay for. I didn't pay so I didn't get anything unexpected. That's only fair.

jmonroe

Guess you never heard "You Get What You Pay For".
Talk about cars lasting 6 years.........the Mercedes I saw that looked like the one in the picture is probably over 25 years old and looked like a new car. If you choose to keep a Mercedes for the long term it will probably outlast most cars on the road.

driver100

In Europe they are testing diesels more vigorously, and few cars can pass the test. When a test is impossible to pass, what is the use.

Main part of the article:
. Vehicles from Renault, Nissan, Hyundai, Citroen, Fiat, Volvo, and Jeep were all tested in real-world conditions — and all of them found severely wanting. The average Mercedes Benz produced at least 2.2x more NOx than the official Euro-5 level and 5x more than the ecological Euro-6 emission standard allows. Honda’s diesels emitted between 2.6x and 6x more NOx than allowed.

Mazda and Mitsubishi both failed the test as well. Out of 50 vehicles that supposedly met Euro-6 levels and 150 Euro-5 diesels, just five vehicles out of more than 200 emitted real-world particulate levels that matched their in-house lab tests. The difference between these manufacturers and VW, thus far, is that none of these other companies stand accused of using a so-called “defeat device” to hide their failures

FULL ARTICLE

GM fans should not get too excited yet................I don't believe their diesels have been checked yet!

ab348

^^^ I believe those "real-world" tests are what is called "moving the goalposts" in the real world.

roadburner

I think that the ultimate goal of the quasi-totalitarian EU is to promulgate emission standards that are so strict that they can only be met by BEVs.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

When did I ever say I wanted my car to be comparable to a Mercedes? I wanted something beyond that. I don't want to be afraid to own it when it is out of warranty. When is the last time you had a 6 year old car in the last 10 years?

When you buy a sought after badged car your car should not look like a K-car from Detroit.

You should get what you pay for. I didn't pay so I didn't get anything unexpected. That's only fair.

jmonroe

Guess you never heard "You Get What You Pay For".
Talk about cars lasting 6 years.........the Mercedes I saw that looked like the one in the picture is probably over 25 years old and looked like a new car. If you choose to keep a Mercedes for the long term it will probably outlast most cars on the road.

Depends on the owner. Saw an older (early 2000s) C class the other day and it was rusted like a hooptie. Owner obviously never wash the salt off.

You see a lot of rust around here but on a MB it seems like a crime. Sort of like seeing a Lambo with a big dent.

Mr_Shiftright

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

That's the only 190E you SHOULD covet.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

When did I ever say I wanted my car to be comparable to a Mercedes? I wanted something beyond that. I don't want to be afraid to own it when it is out of warranty. When is the last time you had a 6 year old car in the last 10 years?

When you buy a sought after badged car your car should not look like a K-car from Detroit.

You should get what you pay for. I didn't pay so I didn't get anything unexpected. That's only fair.

jmonroe

Guess you never heard "You Get What You Pay For".
Talk about cars lasting 6 years.........the Mercedes I saw that looked like the one in the picture is probably over 25 years old and looked like a new car. If you choose to keep a Mercedes for the long term it will probably outlast most cars on the road.

Depends on the owner. Saw an older (early 2000s) C class the other day and it was rusted like a hooptie. Owner obviously never wash the salt off.

You see a lot of rust around here but on a MB it seems like a crime. Sort of like seeing a Lambo with a big dent.

Agreed, most cars can last 200k miles.....depends on maintenance, how it is driven, how much you are willing to put into it. Simpler cars seem to last longer, less complex and costly to repair.

Here is something to think about:
Some car manufacturers support a "high mileage" club. For example, Volvo and Mercedes-Benz have a "High Mileage Award" program in which owners who drive 250,000, 500,000, 750,000, and 1 million kilometers are awarded with a certificate and a radiator grille badge. Mile is 6.4/10ths of a km.

Many non-commercial vehicles (both auto and truck) have exceeded one million miles. For instance, in 2013, Irv Gordon had accumulated 3 million miles in his 1966 Volvo P1800. [5] In 2006, a 1995 Dodge Ram was reported to Chrysler as having gone 1 million miles.[6]

A 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D in Greece of Gregorios Sachinidis has reached 2,858,307 miles[7] before retiring to the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Germany.

A 1989 Saab 900 SPG belonging to Peter Gilbert of Wisconsin had put in 1,001,385 miles before it was donated to the Wisconsin Automotive Museum.

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

cdnpinhead said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair.

Hide and watch. The last three times it didn't work out that way. Money meant for transportation infrastructure, specifically roads, ended up in the general fund. The goal is to get people out of cars while sucking money from the people who drive them, for now.

Exactly. We hear that same"infrastructure" nonsense here as well but they spend 70% of the money buying votes with different intrest groups.

It's going to cost me about $10 more a month.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

cdnpinhead said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

This tax is for road and transit infrastructure repair.

Hide and watch. The last three times it didn't work out that way. Money meant for transportation infrastructure, specifically roads, ended up in the general fund. The goal is to get people out of cars while sucking money from the people who drive them, for now.

Exactly. We hear that same"infrastructure" nonsense here as well but they spend 70% of the money buying votes with different intrest groups.

It's going to cost me about $10 more a month.

You guys are so cynical about your government

I have come to the conclusion democracies by their nature are wasteful, dishonest, inefficient, etc., but are still the best system going .

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

When did I ever say I wanted my car to be comparable to a Mercedes? I wanted something beyond that. I don't want to be afraid to own it when it is out of warranty. When is the last time you had a 6 year old car in the last 10 years?

When you buy a sought after badged car your car should not look like a K-car from Detroit.

You should get what you pay for. I didn't pay so I didn't get anything unexpected. That's only fair.

jmonroe

Guess you never heard "You Get What You Pay For".
Talk about cars lasting 6 years.........the Mercedes I saw that looked like the one in the picture is probably over 25 years old and looked like a new car. If you choose to keep a Mercedes for the long term it will probably outlast most cars on the road.

Depends on the owner. Saw an older (early 2000s) C class the other day and it was rusted like a hooptie. Owner obviously never wash the salt off.

You see a lot of rust around here but on a MB it seems like a crime. Sort of like seeing a Lambo with a big dent.

Agreed, most cars can last 200k miles.....depends on maintenance, how it is driven, how much you are willing to put into it. Simpler cars seem to last longer, less complex and costly to repair.

Here is something to think about:
Some car manufacturers support a "high mileage" club. For example, Volvo and Mercedes-Benz have a "High Mileage Award" program in which owners who drive 250,000, 500,000, 750,000, and 1 million kilometers are awarded with a certificate and a radiator grille badge. Mile is 6.4/10ths of a km.

Many non-commercial vehicles (both auto and truck) have exceeded one million miles. For instance, in 2013, Irv Gordon had accumulated 3 million miles in his 1966 Volvo P1800. [5] In 2006, a 1995 Dodge Ram was reported to Chrysler as having gone 1 million miles.[6]

A 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D in Greece of Gregorios Sachinidis has reached 2,858,307 miles[7] before retiring to the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Germany.

A 1989 Saab 900 SPG belonging to Peter Gilbert of Wisconsin had put in 1,001,385 miles before it was donated to the Wisconsin Automotive Museum.

Kilometers? Isn't that like measuring in dog years?

stickguy

real world should not be expected to match lab tests. It should have an adjustment factor built in to account for that. The same way the EPA mileage ratings are adjusted to show real world equivalencies on the sticker.

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

When did I ever say I wanted my car to be comparable to a Mercedes? I wanted something beyond that. I don't want to be afraid to own it when it is out of warranty. When is the last time you had a 6 year old car in the last 10 years?

When you buy a sought after badged car your car should not look like a K-car from Detroit.

You should get what you pay for. I didn't pay so I didn't get anything unexpected. That's only fair.

jmonroe

Guess you never heard "You Get What You Pay For".
Talk about cars lasting 6 years.........the Mercedes I saw that looked like the one in the picture is probably over 25 years old and looked like a new car. If you choose to keep a Mercedes for the long term it will probably outlast most cars on the road.

Depends on the owner. Saw an older (early 2000s) C class the other day and it was rusted like a hooptie. Owner obviously never wash the salt off.

You see a lot of rust around here but on a MB it seems like a crime. Sort of like seeing a Lambo with a big dent.

Agreed, most cars can last 200k miles.....depends on maintenance, how it is driven, how much you are willing to put into it. Simpler cars seem to last longer, less complex and costly to repair.

Here is something to think about:
Some car manufacturers support a "high mileage" club. For example, Volvo and Mercedes-Benz have a "High Mileage Award" program in which owners who drive 250,000, 500,000, 750,000, and 1 million kilometers are awarded with a certificate and a radiator grille badge. Mile is 6.4/10ths of a km.

Many non-commercial vehicles (both auto and truck) have exceeded one million miles. For instance, in 2013, Irv Gordon had accumulated 3 million miles in his 1966 Volvo P1800. [5] In 2006, a 1995 Dodge Ram was reported to Chrysler as having gone 1 million miles.[6]

A 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D in Greece of Gregorios Sachinidis has reached 2,858,307 miles[7] before retiring to the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Germany.

A 1989 Saab 900 SPG belonging to Peter Gilbert of Wisconsin had put in 1,001,385 miles before it was donated to the Wisconsin Automotive Museum.

Kilometers? Isn't that like measuring in dog years?

You can drive ANY car 1,000,000 miles, even a Yugo. You just have to be willing to spend the money to do that. What's the big deal? I'm sure many buses and big rigs knock off 1/4 million to 1 million miles regularly and nobody gets to go on TV over it.

fintail

Many people refer to the period from roughly 1973 to the mid 80s or so as the "malaise era" for most cars. MB had a malaise era around the turn of the century. Some cars from that era rust like vintage cars (or modern Mazdas), especially in harsh climates. Cars from Quebec seem to be especially bad.

oldfarmer50 said:

Depends on the owner. Saw an older (early 2000s) C class the other day and it was rusted like a hooptie. Owner obviously never wash the salt off.

You see a lot of rust around here but on a MB it seems like a crime. Sort of like seeing a Lambo with a big dent.

fintail

They might support that, but they also support the kids rushing out to buy as soon as they hit legal age. Those industries don't need underage buyers, they have plenty of legal age buyers (I'd like to talk to some of the prudes who determine legal age, esp for booze).

Or maybe MB is saying it because their breakthrough EV tech is just around the corner. That's something I suspect regarding diesel - by the time all of the drama quiets down, EVs will be viable for more people, and diesels will slowly become a quaint relic.

It may not matter anyway, MB is effectively not selling new diesels on this continent, and it hasn't impacted overall sales.

I still don't get the boomer fixation about pot.

ab348 said:

Come, come, Fin. That's no different than tobacco (or weed) companies saying they support keeping their products out of the hands of kids.

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

This is the only 190E I covet:

I covet them all but that is the nicest. I love the rounded trunk and the straight clean lines. Timelessly beautiful!

Looks like a re-badged K-Car to me.

jmonroe

Well, what do you expect when a guy buys a Genesis and thinks he is buying something comparable to a Mercedes.

When did I ever say I wanted my car to be comparable to a Mercedes? I wanted something beyond that. I don't want to be afraid to own it when it is out of warranty. When is the last time you had a 6 year old car in the last 10 years?

When you buy a sought after badged car your car should not look like a K-car from Detroit.

You should get what you pay for. I didn't pay so I didn't get anything unexpected. That's only fair.

jmonroe

Guess you never heard "You Get What You Pay For".
Talk about cars lasting 6 years.........the Mercedes I saw that looked like the one in the picture is probably over 25 years old and looked like a new car. If you choose to keep a Mercedes for the long term it will probably outlast most cars on the road.

Depends on the owner. Saw an older (early 2000s) C class the other day and it was rusted like a hooptie. Owner obviously never wash the salt off.

You see a lot of rust around here but on a MB it seems like a crime. Sort of like seeing a Lambo with a big dent.

Agreed, most cars can last 200k miles.....depends on maintenance, how it is driven, how much you are willing to put into it. Simpler cars seem to last longer, less complex and costly to repair.

Here is something to think about:
Some car manufacturers support a "high mileage" club. For example, Volvo and Mercedes-Benz have a "High Mileage Award" program in which owners who drive 250,000, 500,000, 750,000, and 1 million kilometers are awarded with a certificate and a radiator grille badge. Mile is 6.4/10ths of a km.

Many non-commercial vehicles (both auto and truck) have exceeded one million miles. For instance, in 2013, Irv Gordon had accumulated 3 million miles in his 1966 Volvo P1800. [5] In 2006, a 1995 Dodge Ram was reported to Chrysler as having gone 1 million miles.[6]

A 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D in Greece of Gregorios Sachinidis has reached 2,858,307 miles[7] before retiring to the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Germany.

A 1989 Saab 900 SPG belonging to Peter Gilbert of Wisconsin had put in 1,001,385 miles before it was donated to the Wisconsin Automotive Museum.

Kilometers? Isn't that like measuring in dog years?

You can drive ANY car 1,000,000 miles, even a Yugo. You just have to be willing to spend the money to do that. What's the big deal? I'm sure many buses and big rigs knock off 1/4 million to 1 million miles regularly and nobody gets to go on TV over it.

Think Cuba.

fintail

I think in my area, the money goes to subsidize golden pensions where you retire at 55 with 80% of your highest income, with guaranteed COLAs and solid platinum healthcare for life.

oldfarmer50 said:

Exactly. We hear that same"infrastructure" nonsense here as well but they spend 70% of the money buying votes with different intrest groups.

cdnpinhead

This is most certainly true, and the cost is just beginning to be felt. The next ten years will be very interesting, as more and more of these people retire and more and more people who pay taxes leave the state.

isellhondas

fintail said:

I definitely see how this:



Looks like this:

Wow! You nailed it!

Mr_Shiftright

cdnpinhead said:

This is most certainly true, and the cost is just beginning to be felt. The next ten years will be very interesting, as more and more of these people retire and more and more people who pay taxes leave the state.

Every body wants the good stuff but nobody wants to pay for it.

I kinda like how the Swiss government operates. It's about as democratic as you could possibly get here on earth. I suspect small size and relatively homogeneous population makes this possible.

I think their average income tax rate is about the same as ours but they have a complex system of other taxes which I don't really want to study.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

FULL ARTICLE

GM fans should not get too excited yet................I don't believe their diesels have been checked yet!

ab348 said:

fintail said:

The Guardian link also claims MB says it supports tightening the regulations. Why would the company do that if it was cheating?

Come, come, Fin. That's no different than tobacco (or weed) companies saying they support keeping their products out of the hands of kids.

The Guardian article was from the beginning of the investigation and general so I thought listing it was useful--it is 1 1/2 years OLD.

The articles from extremetech linked by someone else in general defense also is 1 1/2 years OLD.

The Reuters article is a few days old. Kind of hard to wave it away.

fintail

They are also leading the charge for a minimum income. Not there yet, but it has support, and I suspect they will see it first.

No imperial policies, and that largely homogeneous population make for an easy to manage nation. I have a friend who lives there - he pays a lot more in taxes, but also receives a lot more in benefits. With the cost of healthcare here translated into tax, his rate may not be much more than mine.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Every body wants the good stuff but nobody wants to pay for it.

I kinda like how the Swiss government operates. It's about as democratic as you could possibly get here on earth. I suspect small size and relatively homogeneous population makes this possible.

I think their average income tax rate is about the same as ours but they have a complex system of other taxes which I don't really want to study.