Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

bwia

I  think this HUD thing is overated. To me, it's more of a distraction than a convenience especially at night. I've had mine for seven years and has used it no more than a dozen times.

Perhaps the technology has improved over the years but from my perspective it's just another gimmick.

Mike, encouraging news on the ultrasound. 

andres3

So my mother wants a different new (or maybe CPO) car. The '14 Prius my father bought isn't cutting it. My father argues the Prius is good at something(s)? other than being reliable and getting good mileage. I disagree. My mother agrees with me, it is simply a bargain basement economy car that happens to get great miles per gallon and run forever like most all Toyota's.

My father definitely overpaid on it. They don't like how the solar array/sunroof/AC system-while-your-away is extremely difficult to use according to them. They will take a bath on it if they trade it. It's noisier and rougher riding than the '03 ES 300 they are used to. I tried to warn them, but their love of what Toyota does for them, hybrid "green" Eco tech, and 0% financing blinded and suckered them in.

At least my mom still sees the light. I think my Father is in denial

Mr_Shiftright

bwia said:

Waze is annoying suburbanites. The GPS navigation system works on smartphones and tablets with turn-by-turn information and user-submitted travel times and route details.

Here is the problem. On crowded highways Waze directs drivers to take less travelled and faster routes through quiet sleepy neighborhoods thus increasing traffic in once pristine and tony neighborhoods. But the impact is not all bad after all. Let me explain. (thanks for that borrowed transitional phrase from Mike)

Driving on these back roads drivers are discovering a new world of upscale housing and real estate. That in turn is driving up demand and prices in these neighborhoods. A win win for buyers and sellers. Last weekend I had the opportunity to observe this phenomenon first hand. My daughter turned on Waze and suddenly we were driving through some of Maryland's upscale properties. From the highway we had no idea such places existed.

Since then, I have downloaded Waze but have not yet tried it. Isn't technology great?
By the way, has anyone tried Waze, and what is your experience?

I use WAZE all the time and I prefer it to Google Navigation---I like the alerts about cops and red light cameras. On the negative side, sometimes the alerts aren't accurate, and you end up watching out for things that aren't there. Also now and then it seems to have trouble hooking up to the GPS.

Mr_Shiftright

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

Hey, it's Windows 10 right on your steering wheel. How handy.

ab348

Aren't used Priuses a hot item in markets like California?

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

Hey, it's Windows 10 right on your steering wheel. How handy.

Now all we get there are airbags.

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

Aren't used Priuses a hot item in markets like California?

Depends on the miles. People are shy of expensive battery replacement.

tjc78

I miss HUD, wasn't available on the Enclave but the Lacrosse had it. 

As as for the windshields, still much more expensive.  The LaCrosse cost me $700. That was for aftermarket.  

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

I miss HUD, wasn't available on the Enclave but the Lacrosse had it. 

As as for the windshields, still much more expensive.  The LaCrosse cost me $700. That was for aftermarket.  

Is a front windshield more expensive? The rear on my son's Sable was $300 installed including RW defroster. It was used but looked new. Is it more expensive because of the HUD? I assumed the display equipment was in the dash.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=44D31TlMlAw

fordfool

delete double post

fordfool

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

driver100

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

Don't worry about that.....where is the horn?

driver100

How about this one;

driver100

Then I spotted this......what is it/ Some kind of Chryco;

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

I miss HUD, wasn't available on the Enclave but the Lacrosse had it. 

As as for the windshields, still much more expensive.  The LaCrosse cost me $700. That was for aftermarket.  

Is a front windshield more expensive? The rear on my son's Sable was $300 installed including RW defroster. It was used but looked new. Is it more expensive because of the HUD? I assumed the display equipment was in the dash.

Front could have rain sensor and radio aerial as well as HUD.

qbrozen

I always use Waze. Love it for the most part. I recently downloaded the Mr T voice prompts. That has been fun.

Michaell

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

Like any GM car of that era, on the left stalk.

nyccarguy

@andres3 - tell them to trade in the Prius on a 4cyl Turbo Macan.  They'll love it!  

I'm a big fan of WAZE as well.  I have Samantha the British woman guiding me.  I've used the factory navigation in my Q40 maybe twice.  It's helped me avoid some mega traffic a few times.  It is also helpful in an area like NY where there are SO many different ways to get to the same place.  

The factory navigation units just can't keep up with the traffic around here.  Getting me there the shortest distance is pointless.  One time my parents were trying to get from their house in Rockland County (a NYC Suburb located west of the Hudson River) to somewhere in Edgewater, NJ (on the same side of the Hudson).  Their navigation wanted my Dad to go over the George Washington Bridge, Down the Westside Highway, and through the Lincoln Tunnel.  They knew better obviously.

stickguy

I like Navi when I am close to a place that I haven't been before (neighborhood stuff), but I don't trust them at all for longer trips, especially around cities. I always map it all out before hand, so that I know (conceptually!) what I am trying to do. And where I have no intention of going. Yes, this does lead to hearing a lot of "recalculating" at times.

jmonroe

tjc78 said:

I miss HUD, wasn't available on the Enclave but the Lacrosse had it. 

As as for the windshields, still much more expensive.  The LaCrosse cost me $700. That was for aftermarket.  

When my son hit the deer around 1993 with his 1991 Grand Prix that took out his windshield the estimate for the HUD windshield was just under $600 as best as he could remember (I just called him to see if he remembered the cost). $600 in 1993 is a lot worse than $700 is today.

When I got my '15 Genny the F&I guy was really pushing to sell HUD windshield coverage. I declined even though he said most insurance companies don't cover HUD windshields for the standard $100 deductible comprehensive coverage. Of course I knew he was full of it but I just politely declined...3 times.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Michaell said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

Like any GM car of that era, on the left stalk.

You are correct Michaell.

@driver100, there are 2 horn buttons. They are the large buttons on the left and right side of all the other buttons. Zoom in and you'll see the horn icons.

IIRC, when the headlights were on, all of the symbols on the buttons glowed RED just like the gauges that @stickguy likes.

jmonroe

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

I miss HUD, wasn't available on the Enclave but the Lacrosse had it. 

As as for the windshields, still much more expensive.  The LaCrosse cost me $700. That was for aftermarket.  

Is a front windshield more expensive? The rear on my son's Sable was $300 installed including RW defroster. It was used but looked new. Is it more expensive because of the HUD? I assumed the display equipment was in the dash.

Farmer, the display equipment is on the dash and the light is projected onto an area about 4 inches by 4 inches on the lower part of the windshield which has a special coating so that the display is clear.

I worked with a guy in around 2002 who had HUD but since the car was old he didn't carry comprehensive or collision insurance coverage. A rock took out his windshield and when he got the estimate for the HUD windshield he about fainted. He then decided to put in the standard windshield. He said the display was pretty bad during the day (very fuzzy) but was a little better at night. After a while he decided not to put up with it anymore and just put black duct tape over the dash area where the light was generated.

Needless to say, he was the typical, practical, cheap engineer.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

Like any GM car of that era, on the left stalk.

You are correct Michaell.

jmonroe

I rented a lot of GM iron in those days. There was a switch to turn it on/off, then you rotated the end of the stalk one way to set the speed. Rotate up or down to adjust speed.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

The factory navigation units just can't keep up with the traffic around here.  Getting me there the shortest distance is pointless.  One time my parents were trying to get from their house in Rockland County (a NYC Suburb located west of the Hudson River) to somewhere in Edgewater, NJ (on the same side of the Hudson).  Their navigation wanted my Dad to go over the George Washington Bridge, Down the Westside Highway, and through the Lincoln Tunnel.  They knew better obviously.

Even though I'm not a regular visitor to NYC, I found that funny.

I can only imagine the choices these systems have in and around the 5 boroughs, plus NJ and CT.

Would love to see what they try to do if you tell it to avoid tolls. Can't be done!

suydam

andres3 said:

So my mother wants a different new (or maybe CPO) car. The '14 Prius my father bought isn't cutting it. My father argues the Prius is good at something(s)? other than being reliable and getting good mileage. I disagree. My mother agrees with me, it is simply a bargain basement economy car that happens to get great miles per gallon and run forever like most all Toyota's.

My father definitely overpaid on it. They don't like how the solar array/sunroof/AC system-while-your-away is extremely difficult to use according to them. They will take a bath on it if they trade it. It's noisier and rougher riding than the '03 ES 300 they are used to. I tried to warn them, but their love of what Toyota does for them, hybrid "green" Eco tech, and 0% financing blinded and suckered them in.

At least my mom still sees the light. I think my Father is in denial

Have them look at a Premier Chevy Volt. All the green they could desire without the Economy box penalty.

tjc78

Michaell said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

Like any GM car of that era, on the left stalk.

You are correct Michaell.

jmonroe

I rented a lot of GM iron in those days. There was a switch to turn it on/off, then you rotated the end of the stalk one way to set the speed. Rotate up or down to adjust speed.

Both my GMs were a three position switch.  Off / on / Resume-Accel.   The button on the end of the stalk set the speed and if you held it would slow you down.  

Ford always did CC better with buttons on the steering wheel going back to the 70s.  Toyota still uses that little tiny extra stalk around the 4:00 position.  

tjc78

jmonroe said:

I miss HUD, wasn't available on the Enclave but the Lacrosse had it. 

As as for the windshields, still much more expensive.  The LaCrosse cost me $700. That was for aftermarket.  

When my son hit the deer around 1993 with his 1991 Grand Prix that took out his windshield the estimate for the HUD windshield was just under $600 as best as he could remember (I just called him to see if he remembered the cost). $600 in 1993 is a lot worse than $700 is today.

When I got my '15 Genny the F&I guy was really pushing to sell HUD windshield coverage. I declined even though he said most insurance companies don't cover HUD windshields for the standard $100k deductible comprehensive coverage. Of course I knew he was full of it but I just politely declined...3 times.

jmonroe

If I went with a GM product it was well over $1000, but yes probably still cheaper than in 1991.  

imidazol97

.

driver100

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

Like any GM car of that era, on the left stalk.

You are correct Michaell.

@driver100, there are 2 horn buttons. They are the large buttons on the left and right side of all the other buttons. Zoom in and you'll see the horn icons.
jmonroe

I see them now....now the problem is trying to find the horn button from all the other buttons when you need it.

driver100

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

The factory navigation units just can't keep up with the traffic around here.  Getting me there the shortest distance is pointless.  One time my parents were trying to get from their house in Rockland County (a NYC Suburb located west of the Hudson River) to somewhere in Edgewater, NJ (on the same side of the Hudson).  Their navigation wanted my Dad to go over the George Washington Bridge, Down the Westside Highway, and through the Lincoln Tunnel.  They knew better obviously.

Even though I'm not a regular visitor to NYC, I found that funny.

I can only imagine the choices these systems have in and around the 5 boroughs, plus NJ and CT.

Would love to see what they try to do if you tell it to avoid tolls. Can't be done!

I set the navi to see the distance from Tampa back to Toronto...should be about 1500 miles. The navi read about 3800 miles..........had me going way over through New England and across the border in Quebec somewhere and then head back toward Toronto. I forgot....the avoid tolls setting was on.

Glad I realized it......and didn't take the route it gave me.

ken117

I am always interested in how companies treat their existing customers. How companies seem to have no problem raising the price for existing customers.

Like XM/Sirius I had an interesting adventure with my auto insurance last year. I have had GEICO for years. No problem. Last year, I got my bill for about $2,000 annually. I decided to check around. I got better coverage from another company for $1,400.

I called GEICO to cancel. The representative asked me to wait while he checked. A few minutes later he returned with the better coverage for $1,000 a year.

Similar with COMCAST. COMCAST raised my monthly cost to $300 (I have everything). I decided to cancel and go with another provider. I called COMCAST who immediately dropped the cost, for a bit more access, to $200.

I guess this is a game we are required to play.

abacomike

driver100 said:

Then I spotted this......what is it/ Some kind of Chryco;

Definitely a Chrysler - you can tell by the shape of the steering wheel.  My very first car was a 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe which had a similar shaped steering wheel and push-button transmission on the left side of the dash like the one above.  This one looks like a '50's New Yorker IIRC.  Might possibly be a Plymouth deluxe or Belvedere.  

tjc78

Geico had no problem with me canceling with them for similar saving you saw.  Comcast... well yeah that's a game I play every year sometimes it's easy other times it's a fight.  We have Fios in our area now but once you dig in it is no cheaper for the same stuff.

ab348

abacomike said:

Definitely a Chrysler - you can tell by the shape of the steering wheel.  My very first car was a 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe which had a similar shaped steering wheel and push-button transmission on the left side of the dash like the one above.  This one looks like a '50's New Yorker IIRC.  Might possibly be a Plymouth deluxe or Belvedere.  

Geez, we figured @jmonroe was an old-timer but Mike has him beat with his 1861 Chrysler.

I think the pictured dash is from a 1961 Imperial.

iluvmysephia1

Geez, we figured @jmonroe was an old-timer but Mike has him beat with his 1861 Chrysler.

Time machine Chrysler for Mike!

graphicguy

Dash looks familiar. My Dad had one that looked like that. But, I think his was a Dodge. I do remember the pushbutton transmission. What's old is new again. I have a pushbutton trans in the TLX.

qbrozen

ken117 said:

I am always interested in how companies treat their existing customers. How companies seem to have no problem raising the price for existing customers.

Like XM/Sirius I had an interesting adventure with my auto insurance last year. I have had GEICO for years. No problem. Last year, I got my bill for about $2,000 annually. I decided to check around. I got better coverage from another company for $1,400.

I called GEICO to cancel. The representative asked me to wait while he checked. A few minutes later he returned with the better coverage for $1,000 a year.

Similar with COMCAST. COMCAST raised my monthly cost to $300 (I have everything). I decided to cancel and go with another provider. I called COMCAST who immediately dropped the cost, for a bit more access, to $200.

I guess this is a game we are required to play.

They count on most people to just go with the flow and pay the increased rates. Hell, even if everyone only put up with 1 month of increased cost to their cable bill, that's potentially millions of dollars extra profit the cable company gets to realize.

My insurance company, NJM, did not try to counter me when I called to cancel for a better rate elsewhere, and I had been with them for about 25 years.

dino001

You can see this new customer fetish going to particular heights in publicly traded companies, when the focus is almost exclusively in making the next quarter and showing growth to the investors, no matter what, no matter how. Happy customer means one we can raise the price today, if ever so slightly, preferably even more than slightly. With those companies you either need to be genuinely unhappy, or at least pretend to be somehow dissatisfied, to get a pricing concession.

BTW, same goes for employees pay. I used to work for a large publicly traded engineering company and their salary attitude was, as long as you don't resign, you're happy with your pay and measly raises given by our superior leaders (usually below inflation) and your direct manager can do nothing for you, even if he/she believes you should be paid more. You submit a resignation and suddenly they find the money, match and raise the other offer. It went as far as some managers would actually quietly encourage (or otherwise suggest) you to shop around so they can get real arguments in front of upper management to give you a raise. No bad feelings from them, either and they know it's the only way to play the system. It's really a terrible mindset - those quiet productive people, who do their job well and ask to be appreciated without throwing threats, are simply being screwed. I'm glad I no longer work there (there were many more reasons to leave).

driver100

There is no loyalty or ethics...in most cases. Sirius, cable companies, insurance companies, cell phone providers all push the limit on raising rates, unless you complain.

Another game is if you subscribe to something they start sending you renewal notices about 3 months after you just renewed. I keep track of when I last paid otherwise they would collect about 5 times a year.

The gang here is pretty astute, but I am thinking the same people who buy a car based on the monthly payment - which is probably a majority - fall for these other scams.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

Hey, lookie what I found...it's a wonder that poor steering wheel didn't fall off from the weight of all those buttons.
http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Pontiac-Repair-828/2010/06/Steering-Wheel.jpg

jmonroe

So where are the cruise control settings?

Like any GM car of that era, on the left stalk.

You are correct Michaell.

@driver100, there are 2 horn buttons. They are the large buttons on the left and right side of all the other buttons. Zoom in and you'll see the horn icons.
jmonroe

I see them now....now the problem is trying to find the horn button from all the other buttons when you need it.

I think GM had a safety feature for that. If you bumped the AM or FM button during a panic situation, the horn would blow.

jmonroe

bwia

The same thing happens in higher education. The university offers you a "competitive" financial aid package only to find out it is a student loan.

But the game starts earlier in the process. The uninformed pays list price. In reality, they offer discounts of up to 50% if you push them hard enough. 

Even at a discount the tuition is still high which many students cannot afford, so they offer a grant. What the student does not realise is that the tuition for the second and subsequent years are at full list price. 

abacomike

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Then I spotted this......what is it/ Some kind of Chryco;

Definitely a Chrysler - you can tell by the shape of the steering wheel.  My very first car was a 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe which had a similar shaped steering wheel and push-button transmission on the left side of the dash like the one above.  This one looks like a '50's New Yorker IIRC.  Might possibly be a Plymouth deluxe or Belvedere.  

Well, we all know it was not an 1861 Chrysler Newport that I had (bought it used), it was a 1961. Maybe Abe Lincoln drove the 1861, who knows???!!!

jmonroe

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Then I spotted this......what is it/ Some kind of Chryco;

Definitely a Chrysler - you can tell by the shape of the steering wheel.  My very first car was a 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe which had a similar shaped steering wheel and push-button transmission on the left side of the dash like the one above.  This one looks like a '50's New Yorker IIRC.  Might possibly be a Plymouth deluxe or Belvedere.  

Gee, I guess I have created a trend in here about the model years of cars.

Did you really have an 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe?

jmonroe

abacomike

jmonroe said:

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Then I spotted this......what is it/ Some kind of Chryco;

Definitely a Chrysler - you can tell by the shape of the steering wheel.  My very first car was a 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe which had a similar shaped steering wheel and push-button transmission on the left side of the dash like the one above.  This one looks like a '50's New Yorker IIRC.  Might possibly be a Plymouth deluxe or Belvedere.  

Gee, I guess I have created a trend in here about the model years of cars.

Did you really have an 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe?

jmonroe

See my post just before your post.

abacomike

graphicguy said:

Dash looks familiar. My Dad had one that looked like that. But, I think his was a Dodge. I do remember the pushbutton transmission. What's old is new again. I have a pushbutton trans in the TLX.

I think we all agree - it was a Chrysler Motors car. Could be a Dodge, GG. At least we have consensus on something here.

Back in the 1950's and early 1960's, Chrysler products were ahead of most of the styling from other manufacturers. They lost there heads up styling advantage in the latter 1960's and have never gained it back sufficiently to attract droves of customers. What they do now is put 600+ horsepower engines into whatever they can mass produce and attract consumers for speed and power. Styling is not one of their advantages, at least in my opinion.

jmonroe

abacomike said:

jmonroe said:

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Then I spotted this......what is it/ Some kind of Chryco;

Definitely a Chrysler - you can tell by the shape of the steering wheel.  My very first car was a 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe which had a similar shaped steering wheel and push-button transmission on the left side of the dash like the one above.  This one looks like a '50's New Yorker IIRC.  Might possibly be a Plymouth deluxe or Belvedere.  

Gee, I guess I have created a trend in here about the model years of cars.

Did you really have an 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe?

jmonroe

See my post just before your post.

This is what happens when you post as you go through posts rather than reading all of them, then posting your response. :@

But, you gotta admit, I put the thought in your head.

jmonroe

qbrozen

dino001 said:

You submit a resignation and suddenly they find the money, match and raise the other offer. It went as far as some managers would actually quietly encourage (or otherwise suggest) you to shop around so they can get real arguments in front of upper management to give you a raise.

I was one of those managers at my last company. Had to pull the old resignation game once myself fairly early on in my tenure there.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Then I spotted this......what is it/ Some kind of Chryco;

Definitely a Chrysler - you can tell by the shape of the steering wheel.  My very first car was a 1861 Chrysler Newport Coupe which had a similar shaped steering wheel and push-button transmission on the left side of the dash like the one above.  This one looks like a '50's New Yorker IIRC.  Might possibly be a Plymouth deluxe or Belvedere.  

I think I found a picture of that 1861 Newport. Is that you behind the wheel Mike?

andres3

ken117 said:

I am always interested in how companies treat their existing customers. How companies seem to have no problem raising the price for existing customers.

Like XM/Sirius I had an interesting adventure with my auto insurance last year. I have had GEICO for years. No problem. Last year, I got my bill for about $2,000 annually. I decided to check around. I got better coverage from another company for $1,400.

I called GEICO to cancel. The representative asked me to wait while he checked. A few minutes later he returned with the better coverage for $1,000 a year.

Similar with COMCAST. COMCAST raised my monthly cost to $300 (I have everything). I decided to cancel and go with another provider. I called COMCAST who immediately dropped the cost, for a bit more access, to $200.

I guess this is a game we are required to play.

Not required, but we need to have more people willing to say no to the shenanigans and non-sense, and be willing to cut the cord.

I like 2-year price-lock contracts, but unfortunately, word on the street is that AT&T has ruined Direct TV (maybe it was bad already), and getting them to avoid breaching the contract seems to be a tall order.

I already see they are angling to raise my TV rates after 1 year. They will probably say the 2-year was only on the internet fees or some other silly thing.

Why anyone signed up for a 2-year contract when it was still open ended on price after 12 months I'll never understand. 1-year before I signed up, I read the contract, and it was unacceptable. You could be charged a fixed amount for 1-year, but be charged a million dollars a month the 2nd year, and it would be acceptable as per the contract, which says it's for 2 years. Why anyone signed up back then is beyond me. With a 2-year price agreement matching the contract term of 2 years, I got suckered in about 6 months ago.

And of course, if you didn't like paying 1,000,000 dollars per month the 2nd year, you'd face a hefty cancellation fee and penalty.