Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

nyccarguy

@robr2‌

I didn't think about that. Subaru of America is a separate distributor from Subaru of New England. I'm so close to NY & work in NY that sometimes I forget I actually live in New England:) So the guy 10 minutes down I-95 in Rye, NY should have cheaper pricing plus a $75 doc fee as opposed to a $379 doc fee.

Michaell

I'm working the PGA Tournament in Denver this week - I'm on the VIP Player Transportation Committee, which allows me to drive BMW's to and fro (X5d's and 750iL's for the most part).

Anyway, Rory's manager and agent come into the transportation tent with a question. One of them has a box that he sets on the desk. Turns out it's the Claret Jug Rory won back in July at the British Open.

And, we were allowed to hold it! I know the picture is sideways - Edmunds does that with pictures from my iPhone.

This was the highlight of my week.

stever

Common issue apparently with EXIF. Only real fix it seems, at least for viewing on desktop browsers, is to edit the photo to rotate it, save and post the new version.

roadburner

My son went to the PGA Championship at Valhalla; on Sunday he ran into one of his friends and got to sit in a reserved seat at 18 with her and her father(her father is loaded- I keep asking RB Jr. why he isn't dating her)

oldfarmer50

@jayrider said:
A local dealer [big one] said that when he started selling cars in the early 60's there were lots of folks driving "old cars." I guess he meant beaters. He said that now you rarely see really old cars that show their age. He makes sense since even folks who can't afford a decent car can get one thanks to subprime lending. Bodies and paint are holding up better too.

Man, you should see some of the beaters that roll around in salt states. Once the body starts to rot it doesn't make sense to throw money away on mechanical repairs.

I've owned several older cars with relatively low milage that turned to crud. When things like mirrors broke or seats ripped or fenders got dented it was strictly duct tape time.

stever

@Michaell, your photo is fine on the iPad.

houdini1

@Michaell said:

I'm working the PGA Tournament in Denver this week - I'm on the VIP Player Transportation Committee, which allows me to drive BMW's to and fro (X5d's and 750iL's for the most part).

A handsome chap. Congrats on the big win. When you are about 90 you can show that pic to your great grand kids and tell them about the time you won "The Open".

imidazol97

@Michaell said:

Photo works fine and goes into portrait mode on laptop AFTER I click it to enlarge it.

oldfarmer50

@nyccarguy said:
The plot thickens

I received a follow up email from the dealership here in Stamford:

Interesting point that he's telling me the invoice is $24,622, but when I calculate it here on edmunds, it comes out to $24,277. Why the $345 discrepancy?

My guess is the ad fee. Does Edmunds list one?

oldfarmer50

@mako1a said:
Maybe the dealer just had a new toilet installed and when the dealer got the bill for the toilet he asked why so much and the plumber said parts are high and he said where do you get your parts and he said from Bradd. Bada Bing an extra $379.

Ha ha ha maybe Bradd should start charging a "flush fee" on all his products.

isellhondas

Buyer's Remorse can be painful.

People buy or lease cars and then they talk to others to find out they paid too much.

Or did they? I've seen a lot of bragging and puffery in internet forums. I've seen
"Prices Paid" that I KNOW never happened.

Did these people "forget" what they actually paid? Was a trade in under valued?

My best advise is, once a purchase has been made, forget it and just enjoy your new car or whatever it is you bought.

If you go to a forum and ask " Did I pay too much"?

I can GUARANTEE someone will quickly rain on your parade!

koctailz

Thanks for all the info guys...

@driver100 Rent Charge description shows...The amount charged in addition to the depreciation and any amortized amounts...I have always understood this to be the total amount of interest paid on the lease. This is in California, maybe different states do it different? Also $15950 is Residual.

@explorerx4 I leased a 2014 Ford CMax Energi. I bought it for the carpool stickers basically! This vehicle receives a $6500 lease rebate and the way that is calculated in the lease is very convoluted and I spent a lot of time reviewing this instead of the lease rate.

as far as getting pre-qualified, sure for a loan that is simple, but for a lease I don't see how that is possible?

I will definitely review the dealer on here, yelp, etc but there ratings are so bad to begin with I don't think it would hurt them anyway. I wanted to do the deal with a local dealer as that is where I test drove, I dealt with their internet dept thinking that would help me cut through some of the B.S., the sales guy was very informative and knowledgeable. I am insurance agent and could send them business if they gave me a fair deal. Yes, I signed the deal and it's on me, but I really do not like being lied to like I was and I will let the dealer know this when I visit. I will definitely not service my vehicle there, etc.

In some ways I feel the customers and the dealers are to blame for this sort of trickery. Many customers now will email many dealers in the area and disect the deal and suck every last penny to make sure they are getting the best deal possible. There are so many places now to find info on vehicle prices, Edmunds, TrueCar, etc. The dealers feel backed into a corner and have to resort to lies and trickery to make some $. I don't blame them in many ways, but in the long run I feel they lose out with a bad reputation and losing lots of referral business.

isellhondas

What you say is true. Shoppers come in determined to squeeze every last penny out of a deal. They think making a profit is something evil. They spend weeks pitting dealer against dealer in their zeal to buy a car for the lowest price.

I've literally seen people drive hundreds of miles in order to "save" 200.00 on a car.

So, a lot of dealers fight back by trying to make a decent profit deal once in awhile.

Nothing wrong with that unless they get dishonest.

They told you that you QUALIFIED for the best money factor. They just didn't give it to you.

It sounds like you already KNEW they had bad reviews yet you still did business with them?

It's no wonder the business has the turnover that it has.

As far as repeat and referral business. I know in my last few years, I thrived on this business but, sadly, some of my "loyal" customers could have been lured elsewhere for a few bucks.

Service customers were the same way. They were "loyal" until the warranties ran out.

roadburner

My philosophy has been to find a dealer with an honest and competent sales AND service department- and stick with them. Sure, I might save a couple of hundred bucks running all over the place shopping prices, but for me it simply isn't worth it. My BMW and Mazda dealers both give me first-class treatment and I'm not about to throw them overboard to save a few dollars here or there...

isellhondas

I share your philosophy but, sadly, the world seems to have changed and loyalty seems to have been all but forgotten.

Were it not for my loyal customers I would have left the business long before I did.

roadburner

I think of the old saying about those who know the price of everything but the value of nothing. And while I might look at another brand of vehicle-doubtful-if I am buying a new or CPO BMW or Mazda I will only go to "my" dealerships.

abacomike

@isellhondas‌ said:

"Were it not for my loyal customers I would have left the business long before I did."

Whenever I had a repeat customer come in to buy a second or third car/SUV from me, I did not play games with them. They knew they would get a "fair" and honest deal from me and I always got many referrals from them.

First time customers were treated a little differently - the dealership always insisted on presenting MSRP to them as the first pencil. Then, negotiations determined the final price. But that was 10 years ago.

Today, the customer comes into the dealership armed with True-Car pricing and Edmunds invoice data. My Mercedes dealer got smart - their first pencil is the True-Car price as shown on Edmunds. That provides the dealer with a profit while making negotiations less intense and car buying more relaxed.

Remember, additional profit is available to the dealership in the form of incentives, trunk money, and used car trade values.

koctailz

@isellhondas ... "They told you that you QUALIFIED for the best money factor. They just didn't give it to you" That is semantics...say what you mean. You can arrange the words however you want but to me its a lie.

Like I said I am an insurance agent and also for me if it were not for my loyal customers I probably would be out of business as well and that loyalty has to be earned and maintaned every day in every interaction with my clients. Of course one big differencet between my business and car sales is I have renewal commison and in auto sales you are only as good as your last sale. In the insurance industry we are seeing a real emphasis on price...especially in auto insurance. This is due to the constant GEICO, etc advertising emphasizing the lowest price. It's a race to the bottom. Then when someone has a claim they find out in many cases they get what they paid for.

Mr_Shiftright

My pet peeve is giving people used car advice.

So I listen to them, what they say they want, how much they have to spend, what kind of car they need.....then I comb all my resources, makes calls into my network of dealers, repairs shops, friends, and come up with a few good solutions.

Next few days I hear:

"Oh, we didn't buy your friend's used Lexus that he just went through mechanically and had detailed in his shop, because we thought the price was higher than "book"---but we did find the cutest little Mini Cooper with 156,000 miles on it at Ace Auto Sales and we bought that.....hello? HELLO? Shifty?"

isellhondas

We have used the same State Farm agent for many years and intend to stick with him.

Yes, we could probably save a bit of money but if "something" should happen such as a couple of accidents or tickets we won't get dropped. so far, never a claim.

I've heard that a lot of the companies that do all of the advertising will drop a person like a bad habit if they have a claim or get a couple of tickets.

laurasdada

@ab348 said:

That's actually Ernie Boch Jr. His dad, I believe, really built the Boch biz on the Norwood "Automile." EBJ carries on the "Come on down" tradition, but I believe he is mostly a spokesman, that the Boch business was sold. Not sure if that's a fact. He is a musician, has a band Ernie and the Automatics. Built a nice, gated Mansion in kind of a non-descript neighborhood just off Rte. 1. Bought a neighbor house or two and expanded. And yes, worth a buck or two...

abacomike

@isellhondas said:

"I've heard that a lot of the companies that do all of the advertising will drop a person like a bad habit if they have a claim or get a couple of tickets."

Isell, you reach a point when the major insurance companies want a premium of $2100 for 1 car per year, that you start pricing other companies. Geico charges me $700 every 6 months ($1400 a year) for the exact same policy limits. That's a savings of $600 per year which I consider significant.

Liberty Mutual, USAA, Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide, etc., want about the same premium. Only Geico is reasonable.

Should I spend 30% more to insure with State Farm? Allstate? Liberty Mutual?

qbrozen

@Mr_Shiftright said:
My pet peeve is giving people used car advice.

So I listen to them, what they say they want, how much they have to spend, what kind of car they need.....then I comb all my resources, makes calls into my network of dealers, repairs shops, friends, and come up with a few good solutions.

Next few days I hear:

"Oh, we didn't buy your friend's used Lexus that he just went through mechanically and had detailed in his shop, because we thought the price was higher than "book"---but we did find the cutest little Mini Cooper with 156,000 miles on it at Ace Auto Sales and we bought that.....hello? HELLO? Shifty?"

Oh, I feel your pain! Even my wife tells me these days that I should just stay out of it because people are going to do what they want in the end anyway (and she's tired of hearing me complain that they didn't take my solicited advice).

graphicguy

Said this before....I shop insurance companies every 3-4 years. Just to keep them honest. I haven't had a chargeable accident in so long, I can't remember when it was. Certainly a long, long time ago. I can't even remember the last time i had a speeding ticket. So, there is no reasonable reason to raise my rates. But, when they do, it's not by a little. That's why I shop them.

I have been with State Farm for about 5 years and I've yet been able to beat their premiums. So, they must have made a conscious decision not to get beat by the Geicos, Centurt 21s (who was my last carrier), Progressives of the world.

Buying cars....I'll never buy a car from a dealer whom I didn't trust. Don't know why one would. But, if I'm buying a BMW, or an Acura, or a Honda, or a Toyota, or a Mercedes....I have my "guys" who know I offer skinny deals, but I'm also an easy customer. I know the price I want to pay. I offer it. Sign the papers. Quick in and out. Easy-Peasy!

The dealers who try to grind every nickel out of me, who want to bump me for hours on end, who have "additional dealer fees", etc aren't going to be the ones I buy from. They usually don't believe me when I tell them I'm making one offer, and one offer only, all inclusive...offer includes everything...taxes, title, docs...everything. I tell them up front. Some tell me that's the way they like to deal. Yet some, even after hearing that, will try to bump me (which is when I walk).

roadburner

GEICO declared war on radar detectors so I will never patronize them.

driver100

@koctailz said:, but I really do not like being lied to like I was and I will let the dealer know this when I visit. I will definitely not service my vehicle there, etc

Thanks for taking the time to explain a "Rent Charge", I have leased vehicles in the past ad I never heard of that one. And for getting back to us, often the guys give great advice and we never hear back.

I'm like you, I ran my business as honestly and fairly as possible, and that is how I like to be treated too. I think it would be worthwhile to ask for an appointment with the owner/or manager and just let them know you aren't pleased with the way things went. Don't argue or get into a shouting match, just state clearly thet the salesman pulled a fast one and you will notify the manufacturer and you will send in a very poor report if they ask send you a report. Also, you will give the dealership a poor rating on any consumer websites.

If nothing else, you might feel better telling them this. But, I stress, do it in a professional manner and never lose your temper or you will lose for sure. There's a small chance you may get compensated.

robr2

@ab348 said:
I didn't know that Boch was their distributor. I wonder if you can get a better deal if you buy a Subie from one of his dealerships.

Nope - Boch doesn't have a Subaru dealership. I think it might be due to Boch Enterprises owning Subaru of New England - not wanting to compete with his customers. Besides, SofNE gets a cut of every car sold and is the exclusive supplier of Subaru accessories in New England.

@ab348 said:

I don't know how I feel about Ernie Boch. We get the Boston TV stations on cable here and a few years ago he was all over them, doing his own commercials with his "Come on DOWN!" schtick, appearing on Phantom Gourmet and picking up the tab with his Amex black card for this over-the-top dinner thing they did, etc. Lately though he only appears in animations preceding PBS shows that he sponsors and they show him with long hair, rockstar facial hair, etc., looking not at all like the slick car salesman Ernie Boch. He seems to like playing music now. I gather he is as wealthy as Midas.

I understand his grandfather started it all with a Rambler dealership back in the '40s/'50s. How things have changed.

Ernie Boch, Jr.'s grandfather started it all with a Nash dealership back in the 40's. His father, Ernie, Sr. built that into one of the biggest Rambler dealerships in the US and addeded Dodge as well. He was one of the first Toyota dealers and started the Subaru distributorship. He is the one credited with creating the "Automile" in Norwood, MA and is the originator of the "We pay cash for our cars so we pay less and pass the savings on to you. COME ON DOWN."

Jr. grew up in the business and is still the owner. My understanding is that he has surrounded himself with smart managers and is very intelligent about the business. But he knows when to take the advice of his managers. He is in his mid 50's and seems to be going through a mid-life crisis with the long hair, Van [non-permissible content removed] and the band. But music has always been a big part of his life and he uses it as the basis of his foundation.

Today, Boch has 2 Toyota, 2 Scion, 2 Honda dealerships and a Ferrari/Maserati store.

And yes, he's loaded.

Here's Sr.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QckKPZRYWaU

and Jr. with his kids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydzHzA7QcVo

abacomike

@koctailz said:

"but I really do not like being lied to like I was and I will let the dealer know this when I visit. I will definitely not service my vehicle there, etc"

There is a way to tell Ford and the dealership how you were lied to - KILL THE SOB's ON THE CUSTOMER SURVEY YOU WILL RECEIVE FROM FORD!!!

Give the dealership a HORRIBLE survey which will drop their CSI significantly! That's how you let the dealership know you were lied to. I bet you get a response from Ford Motor Company or the owner of the dealership!!!

explorerx4

@robr2, Watching that ad with the Oldsmobile's in it, I couldn't help but think of the movie Fargo.

roadburner

@abacomike said:
koctailz said:

"but I really do not like being lied to like I was and I will let the dealer know this when I visit. I will definitely not service my vehicle there, etc"

There is a way to tell Ford and the dealership how you were lied to - KILL THE SOB's ON THE CUSTOMER SURVEY YOU WILL RECEIVE FROM FORD!!!

Give the dealership a HORRIBLE survey which will drop their CSI significantly! That's how you let the dealership know you were lied to. I bet you get a response from Ford Motor Company or the owner of the dealership!!!

Yes- that will definitely hit them where it hurts!!!

oldfarmer50

@isellhondas said:
Buyer's Remorse can be painful.

People buy or lease cars and then they talk to others to find out they paid too much.

Or did they? I've seen a lot of bragging and puffery in internet forums. I've seen
"Prices Paid" that I KNOW never happened.

Did these people "forget" what they actually paid? Was a trade in under valued?

My best advise is, once a purchase has been made, forget it and just enjoy your new car or whatever it is you bought.

If you go to a forum and ask " Did I pay too much"?

I can GUARANTEE someone will quickly rain on your parade!

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

A guy at work just leased a 2014 Accord LX for $89/ month. He was very proud of this. Seeing that some members of this board are doing the same I inquired about the deal. He said he got the deal by putting $4000 down! I think he could have gotten $198/ month with $1000 down and $260/ month with zero down.

He had no idea what his money factor was but he did say his wife went for $700 mop and glo.

I didn't want to rain on his parade.

explorerx4

@koctails. Mike's point about the sales survey does show you have some leverage. I'm sure the salesperson said something like, 'You may be getting a survey in the mail from Ford Motor Company. If for any reason you can't complete it as completely satisfied, let us know.'
Maybe you can think of something reasonable to negotiate. I doubt if they are going to renegotiate the contract, though.
One caveat, you have to actually get the survey. I had a bad sales/delivery experience one time, and couldn't wait to fill it out, but it never showed up.
I called Customer Service and told them I never got the survey. They said it was sent out and asked to verify my information. It turns out my address was listed in the town where I bought the car, over 40 miles from where I lived at the time. It was probably the salesperson's address.

mako1a

Radar detectors are illegal in Virginia so this is the first I've heard about geico not insuring RD drivers. Probably a good thing for me as I don't want to get used to waiting for a beep to slow down.

driver100

@robr2 said:Today, Boch has 2 Toyota, 2 Scion, 2 Honda dealerships and a Ferrari/Maserati store.

He has a great business model...he pays cash, gets the cars for less, so you save. Also, the rural address probably helps.

I am sure his Toyota and Ferrari/Maserati stores will thrive, not so sure about Scion, I saw they were on a top 10 list of car companies that may not last too long in N.A.

koctailz

@abacomike @driver100 I did receive a survey in my email from fordquicktouch@researchhq.com I was planning on blasting them on it.

I was also planning on talking to finance manager or sales manager regarding my experience and do so in a polite manner. I know yelling and swearing never ends with a good result. I will bring up the survey and ask them how much a good review is worth to them.$$. I have a feeling they don't give a crap. All of the Ford dealers in my area have poor online reviews. You have to go out of the bay area a bit to find some that have better reviews.

also when I bought the car by the time we were done it was 9pm on friday and dealer was closed and didn't have time to prep and wash car. they told me to call and come back to get it washed. i have called 3 times with no call back. im making sure these guys wash the car even if i have to drive it onto the showroom floor.

driver100

@oldfarmer50 said:He had no idea what his money factor was but he did say his wife went for $700 mop and glo.

I didn't want to rain on his parade

LOL...I thought he had a great deal, until I saw the $4000 down....ouch!
Kind of defeats the whole idea of leasing.

henryn

@explorerx4 said:

>

One caveat, you have to actually get the survey. I had a bad sales/delivery experience one time, and couldn't wait to fill it out, but it never showed up. I called Customer Service and told them I never got the survey. They said it was sent out and asked to verify my information. It turns out my address was listed in the town where I bought the car, over 40 miles from where I lived at the time. It was probably the salesperson's address.

Back in the early 90's, when they were still doing the surveys by USPS, I had a Dodge dealer offer me $100 to bring him the survey instead of sending it back directly to Chrysler. I turned him down.

abacomike

@koctailz‌ said:

" I will bring up the survey and ask them how much a good review is worth to them.$$."

DO NOT MENTION THE SURVEY TO THEM OR THAT YOU WANT SOMETHING FOR A GOOD EVALUATION!!!

The dealer can have your survey disqualified for bribery! Be careful.

I could easily have surveys disqualified for thing like that.

Just give the SOB's a horrible survey. The dealership is not allowed to discuss anything related to the survey with you.

robr2

@driver100 said:
He has a great business model...he pays cash, gets the cars for less, so you save. Also, the rural address probably helps.

It's far from rural. Norwood and the other towns his stores are in are suburbs of Boston. They are pretty developed and some of the area is very affluent.

@driver100 said:
I am sure his Toyota and Ferrari/Maserati stores will thrive, not so sure about Scion, I saw they were on a top 10 list of car companies that may not last too long in N.A.

Was that one of those top ten lists of dying brands from yahoo or msnbc? If so, I put little stock in those. Even if Scion the brand were to go away, those models would most likely be rebranded as Toyotas.

explorerx4

@henryn, For some reason, I thought they are still snail mailed. How easy would it be to have the sale department substitute they own drop box email as the destination for the surveys, then fill them out themselves?
They could even send their own fake survey by email, if they were sleazy and halfway smart.
I would verify that email is the correct delivery system for the survey.

abacomike

@explorerx4‌ said:

"@henryn, For some reason, I thought they are still snail mailed. How easy would it be to have the sale department substitute they own drop box email as the destination for the surveys? They could even send their own fake survey by email, if they were sleazy and halfway smart. I would verify that email is the correct delivery system for the survey."

Mercedes sends all their survey via "email". I click on the hyperlink and it takes me right to the survey on their website. I enter the last 7 of my VIN# and voila!

It saves them a fortune in postage. Why do you think the US Postal service is losing billions? Because it costs do much to mail things like surveys (have to pay postage both ways).

I send e-cards now for birthdays and holidays and anniversary's etc. when I want to get important documents to a company, brokerages, family, etc., I send it FED EX. I don't trust the postal service.

Frequently I get mail where the corner of the envelope has been torn. Sound familiar? And who do you think is looking into my mail ? You got it - just don 't trust the US mail any more!

imidazol97

Frequently I get mail where the corner of the envelope has been torn. Sound familiar? And who do you think is looking into my mail ? You got it - just don 't trust the US mail any more!

I take that to mean the envelope was opened enough to look in and read the contents?

But who is looking into our emails and our online activity?

abacomike

@imidazol97‌ said:

"I take that to mean the envelope was opened enough to look in and read the contents?

But who is looking into our emails and our online activity?"

My guess is that it is a postal employee. My neighbors have the same complaint. I wonder if this is a common complaint around the country.

The mail that I notice is ripped on the side is usually invoices from credit cars companies. I have now stopped all mail from credit card companies and pay everything electronically.

driver100

@abacomike said:Just give the SOB's a horrible survey. The dealership is not allowed to discuss anything related to the survey with you.

My friend who bought the Maserati and then Fiat-Genesis - Audi ASR4 just said he hates those surveys. He has had a few salespeople who deserve a 10, and many that should get a 1 or 2, but who really answers them truthfully or accurately?

I thought I had a good salesman and I gave him a 10, but, then he gave me misinformation about some features and he lost the sale on the next bmw...so I would like to do a re-evaluation.

And I think our friend with the lease should mention the Ford dealership will be given a bad report if he is asked to fill one out The dealership should know they shouldn't take advantage of people, not in a threatening way, just factual. We have bought about 6 cars in the last 6 years and all surveys including one's about service were done via email.

driver100

@robr2 said:It's far from rural. Norwood and the other towns his stores are in are suburbs of Boston.

Route 1 sounds pretty rural...maybe the Nash dealership started in the country and now it has become more urban. That begs a question I have often wondered about.

Could it be cheaper to buy from a small town dealership where property costs, taxes, etc are cheaper? Seems some of these giant used car places are outside the city including Haldimand Motors near me.....it is North Americas largest used car dealer and they are definitely in a very small town.

Over 500 used cars:

driver100

@robr2 said:
Was that one of those top ten lists of dying brands from yahoo or msnbc? If so, I put little stock in those. Even if Scion the brand were to go away, those models would most likely be rebranded as Toyotas.

It was one of those lists. If Scions became Toyotas he would have 4 Toyota dealerships.

jayrider

@roadburner said:
Yes- that will definitely hit them where it hurts!!!

Once the deal is done -- signed and sealed -- unless they actually defrauded you -- you made your own bed. Learn from it. You can't deal those guys the aces and expect them not to play. I like what isell said -- don't compare deals AFTER it's in he garage. Nothing to be gained by that.

stever

Why Car Salespeople Beg for Top Customer Survey Scores

The Simple Answer: Anything Less Than an "A" Is an "F"

And often it's something besides your salesperson that leaves a bad taste in your mouth - the F&I experience or incomplete dealer prep.

robr2

@driver100 said:
Route 1 sounds pretty rural...maybe the Nash dealership started in the country and now it has become more urban. That begs a question I have often wondered about.

It was rural perhaps 100 years ago but Route 1 was the main highway between Boston and Providence before the interstate system. As an FYI, Rt. 1 runs from Ft. Kent, ME to Key West, FL. Today in that area it's a 4 lane divided road with car dealers, restaurants, shopping, hotels, et al. It's anything but rural. It has a population of 20K and is solidly suburban just like most places 25 minutes outside of Boston.

@driver100 said:
Could it be cheaper to buy from a small town dealership where property costs, taxes, etc are cheaper? Seems some of these giant used car places are outside the city including Haldimand Motors near me.....it is North Americas largest used car dealer and they are definitely in a very small town.

You might save a bit but IMHO, a larger more metro dealer probably turns more cars and hence can sell at a lower price. Maybe a used car lot might do better.

@driver100 said:
It was one of those lists. If Scions became Toyotas he would have 4 Toyota dealerships.

He would still have 2 dealerships. Scion is co-located inside the Toyota stores. AFAIK, there are very few free standing Scion stores as the volume doesn't justify it.

abacomike

@stever said:

"Why Car Salespeople Beg for Top Customer Survey Scores

The Simple Answer: Anything Less Than an "A" Is an "F"

And often it's something besides your salesperson that leaves a bad taste in your mouth - the F&I experience or incomplete dealer prep."

There are several reasons why survey results are important to salesmen and the dealership:

*Each dealership receives incentive dollars for maintaining a CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index) above a certain % - usually set at 95% by the manufacturer. If the CSI drops below a certain level, it can cost the dealership as much as $200,000 in incentives per year.

*Dealerships offer their sales personnel bonuses based on maintaining a superior CSI. In my dealership, we paid each salesman $50.00 for every perfect survey they received. If a salesman's average CSI dropped below 95%, they were given a warning. If it did not improve significantly, they were terminated.

If a bad survey came in and it can be determined that the salesman did not cause the bad survey (i.e. it was finance or poor management), the survey did not count against the salesman's average. But the finance department would be back charged $100 if the treatment of the customer was finance related.