Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

abacomike

@sterlingdog said:

"You certainly have had the year from hell. You cope very well and I'm proud of you for that. Keep the faith and know that many prayers are being said."

Thank you Richard. I hope your prayers are heard as I hope mine will be, too !

sterlingdog

@driver100 said:

Yep, New Year's Eve is a great time to buy a vehicle. I'll never forget New Year's Eve of 2000. I had been negotiating for a new Honda CRV that my wife loved. The dealer just wouldn't meet my trade on the Miata or the discount on the CRV. Around 8 PM that night he called. They were a car short on meeting their annual quota which was worth some sort of bonus from the company. They were closing at 9 PM and he needed one sale. He met my price on the CRV but said that he just couldn't come up on the trade. I cut him loose. At 8:30 PM he called again. He asked if I could be there in 15 minutes. I flew out the door to sign papers on the deal of a life time. Either I was the only one home that evening, or New Year's Eve is a great chance to save bucks.

Richard

ab348

Here's the kind of customer any car salesman would love:

I ran into a couple of acquaintances today, both car nuts, and both Benz aficionados. We went over to the closed M-B dealer where I was yesterday and they pointed out a car I missed (not sure how): a 2013 E-class AMG wagon on the used lot, with 600km on the odometer. I had never seen one of these before and it looked unique for sure, with black alloy wheels and a menacing look. The story was that it was ordered by an absurdly rich fellow one of these guys knows slightly, who (he tells me) owns 46 vehicles plus a Porsche racing team. He drove the car for only 200km and decided he didn't like it. So he either traded it back to the dealer for something else or has it there on consignment. There was no price sticker on the window so I don't know what they are asking for it. I can only imagine.

What you do with 46 cars escapes me although apparently this guy has multiple residences in various parts of the world so I can imagine it gets a bit complicated.

They also pointed out a new metallic gray S-class that might have one of the most lovely interiors I have ever seen - very light gray leather and gray birchwood dash trim that looks just incredible. They said it was the kind of car you buy for your girlfriend if you are very rich. I wouldn't know. But now I want some gray birchwood in my house.

stever

@sterlingdog said:
Yep, New Year's Eve is a great time to buy a vehicle. I'll never forget New Year's Eve of

I got my '99 Quest on New Year's Eve in 1998. Left money on the table.

The salesperson was a straight shooter (and I see his name at the Chrysler dealer now and then where he's the internet manager or some such). Anyway, he told me a few weeks later that the year end for Nissan that year was January 3rd or so. I might could have held him up for another $1,000 bucks (which would have amounted to $67 a year for the time we owned it).

oldfarmer50

@abacomike said:
oldfarmer50‌ said:

"What about ordering a car configured to a specific customer's wishes? Assume that you will be taking delivery of a number of other cars at the same time and the customer makes a firm commitment to buy so you had no worry of getting stuck with an oddball car.

Would you have done that deal with the same discounts as an in stock unit?"

NO! From the time I submitted an order to the factory to the time I received it at the dealership, 7-8 weeks would have elapsed. All that time, I still had no sale. Additionally, there was always a trade involved and I would be taking a chance on a downward trend in value - which I would have had to eat. Usually on a SPECIAL ORDERED CAR, I would charge FULL MSRP. If I found a car for the customer at the port that was 95% of what he wanted, I would offer to sell him the car at $100,00 over my net cost just to get the sale on the books before the end of the month. That usually worked out.

Only twice did I have to special order a car and each one was sold at MSRP.

Hmmmmm, interesting. So it's the delay in booking the sale that makes car dealers adverse to ordering. I see your point on the trade as well. Who knows what might happen in 2 months.

So if I want my Mustang with ceramic color interior and a specific exterior color with no other options other than auto tranny I should not wait hoping to cut a better deal later in the year? If the best I'll get is MSRP I might as well get exactly what I want as early as I can.

You mention cars being at the port ( as in a foreign manufacturer ). Might a dealer for a domestic brand feel different since he's not ordering a car from across the ocean?

ab348

@oldfarmer50 said:
You mention cars being at the port ( as in a foreign manufacturer ). Might a dealer for a domestic brand feel different since he's not ordering a car from across the ocean?

I remember back when my dad was buying new cars, the domestic dealers were quite willing to order a car to your specs. I think it was almost encouraged given the plethora of choices and options available back then. Usually about 6 weeks later the exact car you wanted arrived. I can see it being a bit different now given that most options are in packages and there is far less choice in terms of color combinations.

abacomike

@oldfarmer50‌ said:

"You mention cars being at the port ( as in a foreign manufacturer ). Might a dealer for a domestic brand feel different since he's not ordering a car from across the ocean?"

The car you have been dreaming about on this forum strand for months has been a 2015 Mustang GT. When they hit the dealerships, they will be a hot item, most going for full or near full MSRP, at the onset. Eventually, dealers will be selling them at a discount once supply outstrips demand.

How much are you expecting to save on a car equipped exactly the way you want it? Not much since the car will not have lots of high cost options that can provide some discounting.

IMOP, and FWIW, order the car exactly the way you want it and expect to pay pretty close to MSRP. You keep cars for a very, very long time and for that reason, get what you want, when you want.

If you wait 4-5 months, you might save $500-$1000 on that car, but you might not get it the way you want. Special order vehicles always cost a bit more - so if you are not flexible in color or options, order it and pay the extra $500-$1000. In a few years from now, you 'll be happy you did.

driver100

@ab348 said:
driver100: That Audi looks more like a black interior with a few red accents. At least the Nissan example is not ashamed to be red.

BMW` makes a nice red + black interior too. I don't think you will see a 100% fire engine red interior in a fine European car. Personally, I think it looks better with the black accents - too much red gives it a bordello look.(not that I would actually know.........)

driver100

@sterlingdog said:Never mix money and family. Been there, done that.

You must have missed the Dr Phil show I saw where a woman (about 60 yrs old) bought a property with her daughter as an investment. It was worth about $120K and they each put in $60K. The mother found a new boyfriend, wanted the current value of her half of the property paid to her, which would be about $90K so she could move across the country with her new boyfriend. The daughter would have to come up with $90K to buy her out. They settled after about 10 hours of mediation.

****The lesson: Never go into business or loan money to a relative, it has 14X the chance of going very wrong. ****I wish I heard that before selling my business to my SIL.

driver100

@sterlingdog said:
List the positives on the left side and the negatives on the right side. If you have more positives, then you're ready to buy. Good luck

Excellent insight! That is a great way to solve his dilemNa!

btw...went to see my wife's mother today...she will be 102 yrs old in October. 300 miles round trip. When I got back there were 30 posts!

roadburner

@ab348 said:
I remember back when my dad was buying new cars, the domestic dealers were quite willing to order a car to your specs. I think it was almost encouraged given the plethora of choices and options available back then. Usually about 6 weeks later the exact car you wanted arrived. I can see it being a bit different now given that most options are in packages and there is far less choice in terms of color combinations.

Back in 1995 I ordered my 3 Series with no issues whatsoever(aside from Munich's futile attempt to make me take a hole in the roof).

In 2007 I was all set to buy a new GTI, but the local VW dealers acted like ordering a car to my specs was virtually impossible. I ended up with my MS3, which in retrospect was a MUCH better choice- aside from the lack of heated seats...

In 2010 I almost ordered a 128i M Sport; my dealer expected delivery in no more than six weeks.

At my advanced age I refuse to buy a new car unless it is equipped EXACTLY the way I want it with respect to colors and options. If a dealer refuses to accommodate me they can go pound sand...

driver100

@ab348 said:. I wouldn't know. But now I want some gray birchwood in my house.

No no, you are supposed to put the gray birchwood in your new Mercedes. Talk about avoidance....and now you are looking at S models! I guess if you are waffling you may as well waffle big.

driver100

@ab348 said: Usually about 6 weeks later the exact car you wanted arrived. I can see it being a bit different now given that most options are in packages and there is far less choice in terms of color combinations

We special ordered the Passat almost 2 years ago. It took 6 weeks to come in, no problem.

In the 60's Chrysler tried to build cars with every combination....and they had fields of cars sitting there. It almost put them out of business trying to move all these cars at the end of the year. Then, they found ways to only build cars as people ordered them....and it probably saved Chrysler until we reached the fiscal cliff in 2008.

driver100

@abacomike said: so if you are not flexible in color or options, order it and pay the extra $500-$1000. In a few years from now, you 'll be happy you did.

Excellent point! Don't forget my friend who paid $35k for a Genesis because it had all the options he needed. He liked the car for 2 months, then he thought it was boring....no fun.
He traded it after 6 months and got the 2014 AudiSR4. One dealer offered him $20K for the Genesis, and the next dealer gave him $25K because they also owned a Hyundai dealership.

If he did it right the first time he could have saved himself over $10K! Get what you want when you want it (within reason).

ab348

@driver100 said:
No no, you are supposed to put the gray birchwood in your new Mercedes. Talk about avoidance....and now you are looking at S models! I guess if you are waffling you may as well waffle big.

No, one of those two fellows I was with today has a S-class though, but he is in a different league than me. But since he has one, they are interested in the new ones and they dragged me to see it. What a gorgeous car. Now I know how the other half lives.

abacomike

@ab348 said:

"No, one of those two fellows I was with today has a S-class though, but he is in a different league than me. But since he has one, they are interested in the new ones and they dragged me to see it. What a gorgeous car. Now I know how the other half lives."

I recently posted my take on the 2015 S Class Sedan. It resembles a Maybach in the rear and the interior rivals a Rolls Royce. According to many reviewers, the S550 Sedan, for the price ($105,000-$112,000) is the best value production luxury car made.

oldfarmer50

@abacomike said:
oldfarmer50‌ said:

. In a few years from now, you 'll be happy you did.

Wise advice. Thanks.

driver100

2015 S Class! How is this for having every possible feature ever created by man:

the S-Class. Not only does it iron out bumps, it does so without a hint of floatiness. Plus, the ride gets even better with the sedan's optional Magic Body Control. Utilizing a windshield-mounted camera, the car detects bumps and other imperfections in the road ahead and automatically adjusts the air suspension to compensate. We're not exaggerating when we say that large speed humps can feel more like pebbles.

(from Edmunds review)

abacomike

On the subject of ordering cars, it reminded me of a customer I once had when I was working as a salesman at the Lexus dealership.

It was the year the SC430 came out as a coupe/convertible. We were permitted to take orders for those cars with only one preference - exterior color and interior leather color. The type and shade of wood trim was determined by the color of the leather interior. All the SC430's had the same equipment:

NAV, Mark Levinson Audio, etc., were all standard. The cars we ordered all came in with run-flat tires even though there was an option for regular tires with an inflatable spare.

This customer wanted an Amethyst exterior (dark purple) with black interior. Amethyst was a very hard color to get from Japan as Red, White, Royal Blue and Black were the most popular.

The customer did not have to leave a deposit because there were over 750 orders for these SC430's on the books just for our dealership (we were the highest volume Lexus dealership in the country) and we were only receiving 30 per month - so if you did the arithmetic, you could see that deposits were not necessary.

About 5 months after I took the order from this customer for the Amerhyst coupe, the GM told me to contact the customer and tell him we had an Amethyst with Saddle interior at the port and on its way to the dealership. To further tell him that if he wanted it, it was his.

I got in touch with the customer and told him I had a car for him, but with saddle interior (the wait for a car averaged 9 months, so this was 3 months ahead of schedule). He asked if he could see it before making a commitment. I said yes. When it arrived the next day and he took it for a spin, he said to me, "...write it up!"

These cars were sold at full MSRP at the time plus $599.00 dealer fee, and no one complained about paying full sticker. My commission on every SC430 I delivered was $2100. It was the best of times and it was the worst of times - I was lucky to get to deliver 1 a month.

If a customer refused to take delivery of the car he ordered, it went to the next name on the list for that color combination.

There was one month that year where I delivered 5 of those SC430's because of customers backing out of their orders. One of them was a lease where I made over $5100 in commission on that one sale.

In today's market, a salesman averages $300 commission per car and they rely on bonuses and spiffs in order to make a decent living. Things have sure changed - I could never make it today on the average salesman's paycheck.

nyccarguy

Not sure how many of you guys here know this, but I'm in the market for a new car. The lease is up on my 2011 BMW 328xi & I'm trying to control my expenses. A big way for me to do this is reduce my current ($572) payment. I put all of my needs together and came up with a Subaru Impreza 2.0i (5 door) Premium (one up from the base model) with the "all weather package (heated seats)."

I test drove the car at a dealer in NY on my way home from work last week. The salesman asked me a few questions, tossed me the keys, & said "don't be too long, we close in 1/2 hour." When I got back he asked me what I thought. I told him it was "nice" and that I'll have to come back to do a more extensive test drive. I didn't even ask him for a price.

So while I'm waiting to go back there, I start looking at dealer inventories online. There are plenty of Subaru dealers around, but I always try and give the local guy a shot to earn my business.

I saw Subaru Stamford has a White 2.0i Sport Limited w/ moonroof. Ok, it's more than I want to spend, but I'll take a shot. Sticker price on the car is $25,425. They sent me an email with an "E-Price" of $24,231.

I email back and ask what their conveyance (doc) fee is. $379.

After I factor in their $379 doc fee and add it to their $24,231 "E-Price," I get a price of $24,610. $815 off sticker isn't what I was looking for at the end of the month on Memorial Day weekend.

I just checked my email and got a "gentle" reminder from the salesman that "Imprezas are in tight supply."

The other dealer I contacted online is Bill Kolb Junior Subaru which claims to be the largest new & used Subaru dealer on the east coast. I got an auto reply email thanking me for contacting them, then a voice mail this AM saying the unit I was interested in was "sold." Then another email tonight saying how they take time and don't cut corners when they prep the car. They say they have salaried consultants and are a one price dealership.

I'll keep you guys updated.

venture

@nyccarguy said:
Not sure how many of you guys here know this, but I'm in the market for a new car. The lease is up on my 2011 BMW 328xi & I'm trying to control my expenses. A big way for me to do this is reduce my current ($572) payment. I put all of my needs together and came up with a Subaru Impreza 2.0i (5 door) Premium (one up from the base model) with the "all weather package (heated seats)."

I bought my daughter an Impreza Sport Premium last year with the all weather package. It's what Subaru calls a 5-door, but it looks like a wagon to me. She loves it.

For an additional $500 for the Sport Premium you get 17" wheels, roof rails, and fog lights.

nyccarguy

@venture‌

I like the way the "sport" looks. Those 17" gun metal wheels are cool.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:
...After I factor in their $379 doc fee and add it to their $24,231 "E-Price," I get a price of $24,610. $815 off sticker isn't what I was looking for at the end of the month on Memorial Day weekend.

I just checked my email and got a "gentle" reminder from the salesman that "Imprezas are in tight supply."

If they were in such tight supply why were they willing to discount?

driver100

@nyccarguy said: I put all of my needs together and came up with a Subaru Impreza 2.0i (5 door) Premium (one up from the base model) with the "all weather package (heated seats)."

GG, people love their Suburus. Good story and well told. I have one question....are you planning on leasing and are you getting a 2014 or 2015. If you are buying, you should get a bigger discount on a 2014 or it would is probably better to get a 2015.

I believe, at this time of year it will actually cost less to lease a 2015 because the resale (residual) value will be a lot higher.

Keep us posted.

driver100

@oldfarmer50 said:If they were in such tight supply why were they willing to discount?

>

Good question! When I bought the Florida Passat that's what the saleslady kept telling me, they are selling so fast we are selling at full MSRP. That lasted until I told them I would pay $23K or start looking elsewhere. $23K was the Edmunds price...it was a good price for me and fair to them.

I get turned off when they use that "old cliche" about tight supply. At least come up with something more original.

venture

USED CARS

A used car dealer in my area, Blue Knob Auto, sold 884 cars in August. That's a lot of cars, especially for a dealer in the middle of Pennsylvania with the nearest big city 90 miles away.

I've never bought a car from them, but my one daughter did (not the one with the Impreza) and she's very happy with it.

nyccarguy

Oldfarmer

I think the "E" in "E-Price" stands for Expensive:)

Driver

The dealer I test drove with said the 2015s aren't coming out until mid-late November. I'm looking to buy, not lease. It is actually more beneficial for me to buy the current 2014 MY rather than the next 2015 MY due to the amount of miles I drive. The miles are the same regardless, but it "looks" like I've driven less miles per year (since it is so far into 2014).

explorerx4

@NYC, hoping my youngest will hold off until next spring to get a new car. I was thinking a Subaru XV would work, but we will see. She can make her own decision, whether she realizes it or not. Anyways, check out Mitchell Subaru. They have their inventory with discounts listed on their website.

nyccarguy

Thanks. They are up by you? I'll check them out!

houdini1

@nyccarguy said:
Not sure how many of you guys here know this, but I'm in the market for a new car. The lease is up on my 2011 BMW 328xi & I'm trying to control my expenses. A big way for me to do this is reduce my current ($572) payment. I put all of my needs together and came up with a Subaru Impreza 2.0i (5 door) Premium (one up from the base model) with the "all weather package (heated seats)."

supply."

I don't know if you are stuck on the Impreza (a fine car) but Edmund's is much higher on the Mazda 3, in this segment. You may have a different criteria, but did you check the 3 out? I know from reading your posts that you like a somewhat "lively" ride. Plus there is a pending class action lawsuit against Subaru over excess oil consumption.

driver100

@nyccarguy said:

Driver
The dealer I test drove with said the 2015s aren't coming out until mid-late November. I'm looking to buy, not lease. It is actually more beneficial for me to buy the current 2014 MY rather than the next 2015 MY due to the amount of miles I drive. The miles are the same regardless, but it "looks" like I've driven less miles per year (since it is so far into 2014).

GG, The 2015 will be out later in November, so that salesman was honest...ha.
Seems the 2015s will have a rear camera as standard equip on all models.
New Cars Release Dates 2015 Impreza

Interesating way to look at it......lower mileage per year at trade in time. Still, shouldn't there be a larger discount on a 2014 at this time of year? If you had to trade the car in say in April or June of 2015 for some unknown reason, you would lose a full years depreciation...probably about $3000. I know you probably want to turn the bmw in before it gets more miles on it, or you will have to extend the lease. I get why you are doing what you are doing, just weigh all the options and maybe consider Houdini's Mazda 3....not sure if it is AWD though.

Drivers personal rule for buying a current model at the end of the year is to do it if you plan on keeping the car for at least 6 or 7 years, or, if you absolutely need a car right now. The savings rarely equal one year of depreciation.(though in your case I see what you are doing and does make sense - if you keep the car for at least 3 years IMHO).

explorerx4

@NYC, Yes, they are a town or 2 north. I forgot this group posts they discounts for their cars.

ab348

@nyccarguy said:
Not sure how many of you guys here know this, but I'm in the market for a new car. The lease is up on my 2011 BMW 328xi & I'm trying to control my expenses. A big way for me to do this is reduce my current ($572) payment. I put all of my needs together and came up with a Subaru Impreza 2.0i (5 door) Premium (one up from the base model) with the "all weather package (heated seats)."

I understand the need to control expenses, but it seems like a big step from a 328xi to an Impreza. Are you sure you'll be happy with something like that? Maybe treat it like giving up a bad habit, stepping down more gradually rather than going cold turkey?

qbrozen

Why do all the lookers for a 28-yr-old Benz want to use it for their daily commuter?

Mr_Shiftright

@gbrozen-- in France, they call a car like yours a "baker's car"--which is not a reflection at all upon the car in the French nuance, but upon the buyer. It comes from the smaller villages, where the baker is trying to look like the Viscount. The American equivalent would be "look rich for cheap". Your type of buyer probably hasn't got the financial clout to run 2 or 3 cars and have a Mercedes "hobby car".

That's my theory at any rate.

qbrozen

Guy that was just here tells me he had a diesel GLK that was totalled. No more '14s to be had and '15s havent hit the streets yet. I assumed he was indicating this would just hold him over till the GLK came. Still though, to have no other way of getting to work than an OLD car is a mistake IMHO.

oldfarmer50

@qbrozen said:
Why do all the lookers for a 28-yr-old Benz want to use it for their daily commuter?

Probably because it will be their only car, read: beater. Sad end to such a nice car.

Mr_Shiftright

An odd approach to the problem---he can just rent a car for a month.

@qbrozen said:
Guy that was just here tells me he had a diesel GLK that was totalled. No more '14s to be had and '15s havent hit the streets yet. I assumed he was indicating this would just hold him over till the GLK came. Still though, to have no other way of getting to work than an OLD car is a mistake IMHO.

explorerx4

@NYC, Fitzmall also sell Subaru.

driver100

@qbrozen said: I assumed he was indicating this would just hold him over till the GLK came. Still though, to have no other way of getting to work than an OLD car is a mistake IMHO.

He just has to get to where he is going in a Benz...won't settle for anything less....even if it is 28 years old.

nyccarguy

Explorerx4

Looks good. I still need to do some more digging. It seems this Mitchell gives healthy discounts, but adds on accessories to ever car they have. I do like to make apples to apples comparisons.

ab348

I know its going to be a step down, but it is something I have to do.

nyccarguy

Driver100

Thanks for the info about the standard backup camera for 2015.

robr2

@Mr_Shiftright said:
gbrozen-- in France, they call a car like yours a "baker's car"--which is not a reflection at all upon the car in the French nuance, but upon the buyer. It comes from the smaller villages, where the baker is trying to look like the Viscount. The American equivalent would be "look rich for cheap". Your type of buyer probably hasn't got the financial clout to run 2 or 3 cars and have a Mercedes "hobby car".

That's my theory at any rate.

On another forum, there is an entire thread dedicated to "Fake Rich" cars and their owners which this would fit right in.

driver100

@robr2 said:
On another forum, there is an entire thread dedicated to "Fake Rich" cars and their owners which this would fit right in.

In 1994 I took a course in how to be an entrepeneur. One high flyer in the class wanted to be a marketing guy...pick up different lines and then promote them.

He said he would buy about a 10 year old Jaguar, they were fairly cheap, and since they basically look the same each year, clients will assume you can afford a (new) Jaguar.

Mr_Shiftright

Well "fake rich" only works on other non-rich people, --so there might be some logic if your market was wanna-bees. An actual scam-artist would just rent a new Lexus, as might a legit person looking to pitch that one big deal to one big client.

Here in California, you have to pull a pretty big rabbit out of the automotive box in order for anyone to take notice. Maybe a brand new AMG Benz or a Tesla.

driver100

@Mr_Shiftright said:An actual scam-artist would just rent a new Lexus, as might a legit person looking to pitch that one big deal to one big client.

That's true. In approximately 1972, in my young and naive days, some guy got our number to sell Golden Products. It was a pyramid scheme. Just buy about $10000 worth of soap, load up your garage, basement, and bedroom with boxes of soap, sell it to your friends, and you too could drive what he pulled up in.....just like this only red;

I thought it was possible until we went to a meeting at some hotel and they showed a movie showing all these people smiling and talking about how Golden Products changed their lives and now they could live the good life. The good thing was, it taught me to be skeptical about get rich schemes, nobody could be that happy unless they were on some kind of drug.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't buy cars to make me happy. I buy cars to scare myself.

oldfarmer50

@Mr_Shiftright said:
I don't buy cars to make me happy. I buy cars to scare myself.

Now you're talking!

Boy Mike was right on about there being no discounts on new Mustangs. Just for giggles I did an Edmunds search 200 miles from me. Found a base GT in NJ at Tom's Ford. Probably not actually there yet but they had a price that seem low and mentioned "special offers".

So like a dope I gave up my email and phone to see what was so special.

Their special price was $1 lower than their list price.

abacomike

@oldfarmer50‌ said:

"Boy Mike was right on about there being no discounts on new Mustangs."

I told you so !

Finding a car with little in the way of options is going to be near impossible. The smart dealerships load these cars up to maximize profits. My suggestion remains unchanged - order the car EXACTLY the way you want it. Perhaps by the time it comes in, they will discount it a wee bit - but even if they don't, you will have exactly what you wanted.

Buy it from the closest dealer to you - the pricing will be the same no matter where you buy it - so at least the dealer will be close!

driver100

@abacomike said:Finding a car with little in the way of options is going to be near impossible. The smart dealerships load these cars up to maximize profits.

That raises a question for me Mike. When I bought my 2008 bmw Cariolet in August 2007 the dealer told me they would be alloted just 4 of this model for the first month...which would be November. He said they sold 3 already and I had better order now or mine wouldn't come in until December. BTW....no discounts because they were selling out!

I guess the question is, if they know they can sell all they can get orders for, will the dealer try to put you off if you order a stripped down model? Like you said, if he can only get so many, and he knows they will all sell ot, he may as well try to sell the most expensive models he can get.