Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

andres3

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

Thanks for all the kind words, but yes- the driver is almost always what determines which car is faster. There is a HUGE disparity between drivers and their abilities. I once had a 5' tall introverted young lady for a student; she was driving a mildly modified 2004 325i in an intermediate run group. She passed 911s, Mitsubishi Evos, and Corvettes in every session.

Near me there are several interchanges between Interstate highways where the ramp is designed for high speeds, such that any vehicle with 4 wheels that isn't overloaded to make it top heavy should be able to take the ramp at at least 60 MPH. I rarely see vehicles, even high end sports cars, take these ramps at over 40-45 MPH.

My favorite example is southbound end of I-355 getting onto eastbound I-80, the ramp is 2 lanes wide and can be taken at highway speeds. One day I am on this route doing a between 5 and 10 over the limit approaching the ramp that takes us to eastbound I-80 when this 911 flys by me and as it starts the curve it hit's the breaks. I enter the curve without slowing down and easily not only navigate the curve by pass the 911. As soon as the curve straightens out for the merge onto I-80 the 911 opens up and flys past me once again, all this time I maintained a consistent speed.

Maybe the 911 was overcooked going into the turn, braked hard and upset the chassis thereby making them slow down more than needed typically for that ramp?

Just kidding! I don't get upset when a big rig takes a ramp slower than molasses, but when a BMW does it; that's just blood pressure inducing.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I'd think more than that. You'd barely get past Volume 1 of the Owner's Manual by then.

andres3

Do BMW's have launch control? I'd want to be shown how that feature works.

oldfarmer50

OK what do you make of this. Used car search at a Jeep dealer. One of several used cars listed with under 100 miles. Are these really used cars or something else.

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=1C6RR7FG9GS283370

imidazol97

One month old showing as ownership. 11 miles.

stickguy

that is an interesting one. maybe it never actually rolled?

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

Thanks for all the kind words, but yes- the driver is almost always what determines which car is faster. There is a HUGE disparity between drivers and their abilities. I once had a 5' tall introverted young lady for a student; she was driving a mildly modified 2004 325i in an intermediate run group. She passed 911s, Mitsubishi Evos, and Corvettes in every session.

Near me there are several interchanges between Interstate highways where the ramp is designed for high speeds, such that any vehicle with 4 wheels that isn't overloaded to make it top heavy should be able to take the ramp at at least 60 MPH. I rarely see vehicles, even high end sports cars, take these ramps at over 40-45 MPH.

My favorite example is southbound end of I-355 getting onto eastbound I-80, the ramp is 2 lanes wide and can be taken at highway speeds. One day I am on this route doing a between 5 and 10 over the limit approaching the ramp that takes us to eastbound I-80 when this 911 flys by me and as it starts the curve it hit's the breaks. I enter the curve without slowing down and easily not only navigate the curve by pass the 911. As soon as the curve straightens out for the merge onto I-80 the 911 opens up and flys past me once again, all this time I maintained a consistent speed.

Long ago I had a guy in a late '70s Z28 come up behind my 1973 Bavaria just as I approached a couple of tight corners; the Z fell way back and when we hit the next straight he hammered the Camaro to catch up and attempt a pass. What the guy didn't know was that there were a couple of huge frost heaves located about 600 feet after the last corner. The Bavaria handled them with no drama but the Camaro bottomed out the front crossmember and/or the oil pan on both of them- sending up a huge shower of sparks. When I last saw him he was slowly pulling over to the side of the road...

I truly believe that the vast majority of the driving public doesn't know how to properly turn a car, judging by the number of people who slow down to a near stop, swing wide and then take the turn to wide.

Now speaking of tight corners here are some so tight you can actually drive straight to get through them, provided there is no oncoming traffic.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

I agree, I backed away from some of my hobbies when my son was young in order to spend more time with him(my dad was a workaholic, and I wasn't going to repeat that mistake). Now that he's 21 I don't regret my decision one bit; kids are only young once.

"My father was a workaholic, every time someone mentioned work he went out and got drunk." - Rodney Dangerfield.

bwia

roadburner said:

I'm scheduled to do what BMW calls an Encore Delivery on a new 7 Series(Encore is a scheduled follow-up visit that allows customers to ask questions about the car and any issues that they are having. I'm literally going to have to cram for a few hours in order to be comfortable dealing with questions on that car. That car has more unique features than any car I've ever seen. Not my cup of tea, but fun to play with...

Today was the day for my 7 Series Encore Delivery. It went really well; I only had to ask the other Genius for help a couple of times. Any guesses as to how long the Encore lasted?

I'd venture a guess of 90 minutes. Now, what did I win, an extended two day test drive? 

stickguy

I was going with 2 hours.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

roadburner said:

I'm scheduled to do what BMW calls an Encore Delivery on a new 7 Series(Encore is a scheduled follow-up visit that allows customers to ask questions about the car and any issues that they are having. I'm literally going to have to cram for a few hours in order to be comfortable dealing with questions on that car. That car has more unique features than any car I've ever seen. Not my cup of tea, but fun to play with...

Today was the day for my 7 Series Encore Delivery. It went really well; I only had to ask the other Genius for help a couple of times. Any guesses as to how long the Encore lasted?

1 hour, 12 minutes 42.952 seconds in metric time.

nyccarguy

2 Hours

stickguy

nyccarguy said:

2 Hours

sorry. Taken!

stever

I'll guess 18 minutes. 10 of which was tracking down the other genius. IPhone pairing issue?

roadburner

bwia wins, but no test drive... The gentleman was very nice, he simply had a long list of questions(and none involved phone pairing ). He basically wanted to go through all of the iDrive menus and understand how you configure various features- and the G12 7er has a huge number of settings that you can adjust.
One funny thing that I "fixed" by accident was my discovery that the voice recognition system had been set to accept commands in English: UK rather than English: US- that solved a big problem with the car not understanding the owner's voice commands.
For some reason the car still has wheel mounted shift paddles and launch control- features that might be used by 0.005% of G12 owners(Alpina B7 owners excepted).

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

Thanks for all the kind words, but yes- the driver is almost always what determines which car is faster. There is a HUGE disparity between drivers and their abilities. I once had a 5' tall introverted young lady for a student; she was driving a mildly modified 2004 325i in an intermediate run group. She passed 911s, Mitsubishi Evos, and Corvettes in every session.

Near me there are several interchanges between Interstate highways where the ramp is designed for high speeds, such that any vehicle with 4 wheels that isn't overloaded to make it top heavy should be able to take the ramp at at least 60 MPH. I rarely see vehicles, even high end sports cars, take these ramps at over 40-45 MPH.

My favorite example is southbound end of I-355 getting onto eastbound I-80, the ramp is 2 lanes wide and can be taken at highway speeds. One day I am on this route doing a between 5 and 10 over the limit approaching the ramp that takes us to eastbound I-80 when this 911 flys by me and as it starts the curve it hit's the breaks. I enter the curve without slowing down and easily not only navigate the curve by pass the 911. As soon as the curve straightens out for the merge onto I-80 the 911 opens up and flys past me once again, all this time I maintained a consistent speed.

Long ago I had a guy in a late '70s Z28 come up behind my 1973 Bavaria just as I approached a couple of tight corners; the Z fell way back and when we hit the next straight he hammered the Camaro to catch up and attempt a pass. What the guy didn't know was that there were a couple of huge frost heaves located about 600 feet after the last corner. The Bavaria handled them with no drama but the Camaro bottomed out the front crossmember and/or the oil pan on both of them- sending up a huge shower of sparks. When I last saw him he was slowly pulling over to the side of the road...

I truly believe that the vast majority of the driving public doesn't know how to properly turn a car, judging by the number of people who slow down to a near stop, swing wide and then take the turn to wide.

Now speaking of tight corners here are some so tight you can actually drive straight to get through them, provided there is no oncoming traffic.




That's the first thing I thought when I saw that picture.

driver100

roadburner said:

For some reason the car still has wheel mounted shift paddles and launch control- features that might be used by 0.005% of G12 owners(Alpina B7 owners excepted).

I have tried paddle shifters once to see how well they work, going down a steep hill. I like a manual gear shift, but, the paddles do nothing for me, and are actually difficult to use as I have to think do I want a - or a + in this situation. Then, I think, is it worth ruining my transmission if I do the wrong thing!

graphicguy

Not often, but when I need to beat a red light while turning, on the approach, I'll use my paddles to drop a couple of gears so I don't have to brake going through the turn/intersection. Or, if I need to merge from two lanes down to one (where my lane is the one being merged), I'll use my paddles to drop a few gears to pass a line of traffic to find an open "hole".

Every once in a great while, acting juvenile, where some Civic or some such car, with the "blat" can as an exhaust tries to beat me off the line, I'll shift manually with the paddles so I can go on about my business with an heir of superiority.

qbrozen

I use my paddles daily. Mostly for downshifting rather than use the brakes when I just need to slow down a little. Another common occurrence is the transmission holding a low gear because I broke hard into a corner or had to slow rapidly for traffic. The car thinks you want to play and kicks into "let's go!" mode, so I then manually upshift rather than let it keep that low gear.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

For some reason the car still has wheel mounted shift paddles and launch control- features that might be used by 0.005% of G12 owners(Alpina B7 owners excepted).

I have tried paddle shifters once to see how well they work, going down a steep hill. I like a manual gear shift, but, the paddles do nothing for me, and are actually difficult to use as I have to think do I want a - or a + in this situation. Then, I think, is it worth ruining my transmission if I do the wrong thing!

I don't play with the paddles very much either. It's not because I'm afraid of ruining the tranny but stepping on the accelerator to get it to down shift is fine with me. I rarely need to use the paddle to hold the car in a lower gear when going down long hills, but sometimes when I think of it, I will use the paddle to do this. I'm not into tracking stuff so I barely use them. My Genny has both the paddles and a shiftronic tranny which I like more than just paddles like on Mrs. j's Subie.

I know someone else who doesn't use the paddles either and I told this story before more than a year ago. I'm surprised I found it:

I think I told part of this story when I did the test drive before signing on the line for Mrs. j’s 2012 Subie Legacy Limited 6 cylinder in November 2011. Son #1 went with us to Columbus where we got the car.

Mrs. j: What are those silver things on the steering wheel?

Son #1: Don’t worry about those. They’re for when Dad and I drive the car. You just put it in Drive like any other car you’ve had and you’ll be just fine.

Mrs. j : Just curious, but they must be there for a reason.

That’s the part I think I told. Now fast forward to after she drove the car for a week or two when Son #1 came over to the house with his family for dinner one Sunday.

Mrs. j: OK, I ask this before, maybe I can get an answer this time. What do those silver things do that are on the steering wheel of my car?

Son #1: I guess it is better to show you rather than try to explain it. Get your coat and we’ll go for a ride. Dad can come along if he wants to.

We get to the car in the drive way and my son says, “I’ll drive. You get in the passenger’s seat and Dad will sit in the back”. When we are in the car, he says, “see the + sign on this paddle, that’s for up- shifting. You probably won’t use this paddle very much because of the way the transmission operates in this car. See the – sign on this paddle, that’s for down-shifting. Down-shifting is for when you want the car to go into a lower gear, like when you’re passing someone. It does the same thing as when you step down on the gas pedal a little harder for when you want the car to get up to speed quicker. When you use this paddle you don’t have to push on the gas pedal, you just pull on the paddle. Let’s go and I’ll show you. It’s very simple”. We get out on a clear road and he goes through the demonstration mode several times. Then he says:

Son #1: See, that’s all there is to it.

Mrs. j: And you expect me to play with those things when I’m driving? I’ll just leave it in Drive like you said before. That’s the way I have always driven, so I’m not going to change how I drive a car now. You guys can play with them all you want. Let’s go home so I can get dinner ready.

Both my Son and I got this HUH look on our faces and she said again, “did you really think I was going to use those things”? More HUH looks and we went home for dinner.

Now that was a wasted test drive.

Maybe Isell would call her a stroke and I wouldn’t blame him.

Like I said, the above is an old post that I found, but it's back on topic again.

jmonroe

imidazol97

TESLA needs to rename the driving assist setup removing the term "Autopilot" because it misleads drivers.
Also, I can't image anything going wrong with the "Summon" feature either! LOL

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2016/07/14/0714-Consumer-Reports-says-Tesla-should-drop-Autopilot-name.html
The influential magazine said Tesla should drop the Autopilot name and disconnect the automatic steering system until it's updated to make sure a driver's hands stay on the wheel at all times. The system currently warns drivers after a few minutes of their hands being off the wheel.

In an e-mail, a Tesla spokeswoman said the company has no plans to change the name, and that data it collects show drivers who use Autopilot are safer than those who don't.

In February, Consumer Reports urged Tesla to change a feature within Autopilot known as Summon, which lets owners start cars and move them out of a garage or parking spot automatically using a key fob or a smartphone. The magazine found that users couldn't stop the cars right away if they pressed the wrong button on the key fob. It also found that the cars kept moving when the smartphone app was closed. Tesla responded with a software update that limited the Summon feature to smartphones and required the user to keep a finger on the phone screen when the car was being summoned.

stever

Those luddites should stick to hawking vacuum cleaners.

My sister's CrossTrek has paddles. A while back she stopped by the dealer and told the service writer her car was making a funny noise. Seems she was driving around in "second" gear and the funny noise was the engine revs.

PF_Flyer

Mr_Shiftright said:

If you can't get hurt, I don't want to play it.

That's the spirit! Of course, there ARE games you can get hurt at that are kinda dumb... like all the stories about Pokemon Go right now..
Two Men Fall Down Cliff

I'm thinking they need to rename it Darwin Rules!

stever

I had some dental work done yesterday - high tech office with fancy cameras they run around your gums to give you a 3D picture of your teeth. The dentist was showing off all the stuff he could see on the screen and I piped up and said "hey, there's Pokémon" (I should have said Crobat). He didn't miss a beat and said the creature was standing right on the spot where my diamond chip was going to go.

bwia

Speaking of Tesla's Autopilot, I have been thinking of that blind person I mentioned last week who would like to drive again in an autonomous driverless car.

Fast forward to today. I was watching a NOVA special on how bats navigate, although they are completely blind. They do it entirely by sonar, and they are good at it because they use sonar not only to navigate but to find food as well.

With that observation, I have been thinking -- wouldn't it be nice to equip a blind driver with a sonar-based helmet coupled with the autopilot technology to make autonomous driving possible? Just a thought, I am no science guy, but perhaps someone might want to say a little more about this topic.

stickguy

I think I tried the paddles once or twice in the RDX, just to see how it worked. Never use them, or the manual shift feature on the other cars. Only time I ever might is on snow, and we don't drive in that much lately.

stever

bwia said:

Wouldn't it be nice to equip a blind driver with a sonar-based helmet coupled with the autopilot technology to make autonomous driving possible? Just a thought, I am no science guy, but perhaps someone might want to say a little more about this topic.

Remember Daniel Kish? Blind guy who clicks to get around, including on his mountain bike. (youtube)

Michaell

Both the MINI and the Subaru have paddles; to my knowledge, neither my daughter or my have ever used them.

I have, occasionally, just for the fun of it.

My E-GT has the shifter that I can move into "manual" mode, the move it backwards or forwards to change gears. Again, not something that gets used all that often.

However, I am seriously considering a stick shift for my next car, when the lease is up in a few months.

nyccarguy

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla's Autopilot, I have been thinking of that blind person I mentioned last week who would like to drive again in an autonomous driverless car.

Fast forward to today. I was watching a NOVA special on how bats navigate, although they are completely blind. They do it entirely by sonar, and they are good at it because they use sonar not only to navigate but to find food as well.

With that observation, I have been thinking -- wouldn't it be nice to equip a blind driver with a sonar-based helmet coupled with the autopilot technology to make autonomous driving possible? Just a thought, I am no science guy, but perhaps someone might want to say a little more about this topic.

There is a video on you tube with a blind guy that "drives" an autonomous Prius powered by Google. He "rides" with 2 or 3 Google engineers. It's pretty cool.

stickguy

I think I am less interested in manumatics because I am traditionally a stick driver. Because it just isn't the same.

stickguy

Hey old farmer, I found your cheap lease. Just got email from local Toyota dealer with specials. Lease offer on a scion ia. $159/mo for 36 mos. $159 due at signing. Plus tax and tags of course.

You wanted cheap. That's about as low as it goes to drive a brand new car.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

Hey old farmer, I found your cheap lease. Just got email from local Toyota dealer with specials. Lease offer on a scion ia. $159/mo for 36 mos. $159 due at signing. Plus tax and tags of course.

You wanted cheap. That's about as low as it goes to drive a brand new car.

Is that the one based on the MAzda 2?

stickguy

Yes. A 2 with a nose job.

Mr_Shiftright

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla's Autopilot, I have been thinking of that blind person I mentioned last week who would like to drive again in an autonomous driverless car.

Fast forward to today. I was watching a NOVA special on how bats navigate, although they are completely blind. They do it entirely by sonar, and they are good at it because they use sonar not only to navigate but to find food as well.

With that observation, I have been thinking -- wouldn't it be nice to equip a blind driver with a sonar-based helmet coupled with the autopilot technology to make autonomous driving possible? Just a thought, I am no science guy, but perhaps someone might want to say a little more about this topic.

It'll be a while before a computer will out perform a bat-brain. It might even be a while before some humans out-perform a bat brain. Bats rarely drive through laundromats.

I don't think encouraging Telsa to ditch Autopilot is being a luddite at all. Quite the contrary. Historically, when a machine becomes overly complex for what it is, then people will default to a simpler technology.

Think steam power to gas engine (ever watch Jay Leno fire up a steam car? You had to be an engineer!)

The whole idea of electric cars in the 21st century is that they would supercede today's wildly complex gasoline engines.

So IMO Tesla is working backwards.

C&D has a good article on this subject.

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

Three-year old was run over by an older driver in my neighborhood two days ago. Ugh! Can you imagine having to live with that?

The same thing happened not for from here last summer. For months people would place flowers and stuffed toys by that intersection. I can't drive through it without thinking of that.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, there's a large altar out there now. Apparently, the driver stopped at the stop sign. The father pushes the stroller forward. The truck surges forward, with the driver apparently looking right into the setting sun. The father sees the truck, pulls back violently on the stroller, and the child tumbles out into the path of the truck. I guess the little boy was not strapped in.

Could have happened to anyone, really. Carelessness all around with dire consequences.

Another reason we won't be seeing "self-driving" cars anytime soon.

driver100

Michaell said:

However, I am seriously considering a stick shift for my next car, when the lease is up in a few months.

Just don't break any arms or legs once you buy your manual transmission car.

Once I bought my 2008 bmw 328 manual, I thought about that. Odds are it won't happen, but, if it does, you will be sorry.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

Now speaking of tight corners here are some so tight you can actually drive straight to get through them, provided there is no oncoming traffic.

That's the first thing I thought when I saw that picture.

It was the first thing I thought when I drove down it, and I did it on the trip back. That photo is not photoshopped, the road actually is like that. Its Wisconsin state highway 42 at the very north end of the Door County peninsular (the strip of land that separates Lake Michigan from Green Bay) right before the road ends at the ferry to Washington Island (travel trip don't go to Washington Island). I think they may have done that to slow down traffic before the road disappears into Lake Michigan. On the way there I stayed in the lane but I went straight when I could and avoided making the turns. Funny thing it was just after getting off the ferry so there were cars in front and behind me stayed in the lane as I just went straight through.

berri

Can paddles on automatics really make all that much difference mathematically? Seems to me the computer will kick in before that happens and override the paddles unless you mess with the underlying computer chip.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

For some reason the car still has wheel mounted shift paddles and launch control- features that might be used by 0.005% of G12 owners(Alpina B7 owners excepted).

I have tried paddle shifters once to see how well they work, going down a steep hill. I like a manual gear shift, but, the paddles do nothing for me, and are actually difficult to use as I have to think do I want a - or a + in this situation. Then, I think, is it worth ruining my transmission if I do the wrong thing!

Don't think you will ruin the transmission or the engine. Using the paddle shifters with either an automatic or DCT the computers keep you from doing stuff that will hurt the engine or transmission. Such things as not allowing an up shift if the engine speed isn't high enough to make the shift.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Speaking of Tesla's Autopilot, I have been thinking of that blind person I mentioned last week who would like to drive again in an autonomous driverless car.

Fast forward to today. I was watching a NOVA special on how bats navigate, although they are completely blind. They do it entirely by sonar, and they are good at it because they use sonar not only to navigate but to find food as well.

With that observation, I have been thinking -- wouldn't it be nice to equip a blind driver with a sonar-based helmet coupled with the autopilot technology to make autonomous driving possible? Just a thought, I am no science guy, but perhaps someone might want to say a little more about this topic.

Actually bats have great vision, many better than people have.. Their main issue is that they are nocturnal and that they like to live in caves and cave like structures which of course means that they spend a lot of time in very low light conditions. Hence they use a type of sonar to navigate dark passages and find very small prey in the night sky.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yep, there's a large altar out there now. Apparently, the driver stopped at the stop sign. The father pushes the stroller forward. The truck surges forward, with the driver apparently looking right into the setting sun. The father sees the truck, pulls back violently on the stroller, and the child tumbles out into the path of the truck. I guess the little boy was not strapped in.

Could have happened to anyone, really. Carelessness all around with dire consequences.

Another reason we won't be seeing "self-driving" cars anytime soon.

What a tragedy! The straps are there for a reason, but I know I'm guilty of not strapping the little princess in each and every time to the stroller; especially since she has gotten bigger; so who am I to talk. Seems like it would be hard to jolt a 3 year old out of there. unless they were leaning forward (also happens). Of course, I've always practiced the "I assume your trying to run me over until you prove otherwise" mentality when walking around as a pedestrian, and that has served me well.

If you can't see, as a driver (for whatever reason, be it the sunshine or something else), do us all a favor, and don't keep moving forward like an imbecile. The guy that hit my S4 admitted he didn't see me and couldn't see traffic so he pulled "up further."

snakeweasel

Michaell said:

Both the MINI and the Subaru have paddles; to my knowledge, neither my daughter or my have ever used them.

I have, occasionally, just for the fun of it.

My E-GT has the shifter that I can move into "manual" mode, the move it backwards or forwards to change gears. Again, not something that gets used all that often.

However, I am seriously considering a stick shift for my next car, when the lease is up in a few months.

A manual is not in my future until I retire and move away from traffic congestion.

snakeweasel

berri said:

Can paddles on automatics really make all that much difference mathematically? Seems to me the computer will kick in before that happens and override the paddles unless you mess with the underlying computer chip.

In a manual mode the computer will only kick in if you approach the rev limiter then it will shift up. Or if you slow down without shifting it will down shift before the engine has a chance to lug. It will also not allow you to shift up unless your engine speed is high enough for the shift, or down shift if your engine speed is to high. Other than that it shifts when you want it to.

So yes it can and does make a difference.

andres3

Some are programmed to let you bounce off the rev limiter, another programmed nanny control to keep people from blowing up their engines.

the Audi Driving Experience where they let you drive R8's S5's and such have some manuals in the fleet, and rather than have people mis-shift they instructed all drivers to use 3rd gear and just bounce off the rev limiter over and over on the straights.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

For some reason the car still has wheel mounted shift paddles and launch control- features that might be used by 0.005% of G12 owners(Alpina B7 owners excepted).

I have tried paddle shifters once to see how well they work, going down a steep hill. I like a manual gear shift, but, the paddles do nothing for me, and are actually difficult to use as I have to think do I want a - or a + in this situation. Then, I think, is it worth ruining my transmission if I do the wrong thing!

I don't play with the paddles very much either. It's not because I'm afraid of ruining the tranny but stepping on the accelerator to get it to down shift is fine with me. I rarely need to use the paddle to hold the car in a lower gear when going down long hills, but sometimes when I think of it, I will use the paddle to do this. I'm not into tracking stuff so I barely use them. My Genny has both the paddles and a shiftronic tranny which I like more than just paddles like on Mrs. j's Subie.

I know someone else who doesn't use the paddles either and I told this story before more than a year ago. I'm surprised I found it:

I think I told part of this story when I did the test drive before signing on the line for Mrs. j’s 2012 Subie Legacy Limited 6 cylinder in November 2011. Son #1 went with us to Columbus where we got the car.

Mrs. j: What are those silver things on the steering wheel?

Son #1: Don’t worry about those. They’re for when Dad and I drive the car. You just put it in Drive like any other car you’ve had and you’ll be just fine.

Mrs. j : Just curious, but they must be there for a reason.

That’s the part I think I told. Now fast forward to after she drove the car for a week or two when Son #1 came over to the house with his family for dinner one Sunday.

Mrs. j: OK, I ask this before, maybe I can get an answer this time. What do those silver things do that are on the steering wheel of my car?

Son #1: I guess it is better to show you rather than try to explain it. Get your coat and we’ll go for a ride. Dad can come along if he wants to.

We get to the car in the drive way and my son says, “I’ll drive. You get in the passenger’s seat and Dad will sit in the back”. When we are in the car, he says, “see the + sign on this paddle, that’s for up- shifting. You probably won’t use this paddle very much because of the way the transmission operates in this car. See the – sign on this paddle, that’s for down-shifting. Down-shifting is for when you want the car to go into a lower gear, like when you’re passing someone. It does the same thing as when you step down on the gas pedal a little harder for when you want the car to get up to speed quicker. When you use this paddle you don’t have to push on the gas pedal, you just pull on the paddle. Let’s go and I’ll show you. It’s very simple”. We get out on a clear road and he goes through the demonstration mode several times. Then he says:

Son #1: See, that’s all there is to it.

Mrs. j: And you expect me to play with those things when I’m driving? I’ll just leave it in Drive like you said before. That’s the way I have always driven, so I’m not going to change how I drive a car now. You guys can play with them all you want. Let’s go home so I can get dinner ready.

Both my Son and I got this HUH look on our faces and she said again, “did you really think I was going to use those things”? More HUH looks and we went home for dinner.

Now that was a wasted test drive.

Maybe Isell would call her a stroke and I wouldn’t blame him.

Like I said, the above is an old post that I found, but it's back on topic again.

jmonroe

She probably thought those were some kind of special "man" thing for whistling at women. Once she knew she couldn't care less.

oldfarmer50

Have a sales story. Not a pretty one.

As you know my in-laws have been looking to lease a replacement for the Jeep that their daughter blew up. I had started to offer advice when my wife told me to mind my own business so I dropped the whole thing. Then last night SIL calls and wants to borrow one of my cars to go looking. No problem but I mention a few things she might want to watch out for like Cap Cost, residuals, acquisition and termination fees and money factors. There's a silence on the line and then "why don't you come with us?".

OK, so after clearing it with the boss I head out to where they're looking. When I got there they were already preparing to test drive a Dodge Dart which surprised me since I thought they wanted to replace their Jeep. I let them go on the test not wanting to influence their decision.

They decide they like the car and start to discuss price. The salesman comes out with a "4 square" sheet and says this base model Dart lease is $388/mo 3 years 12k miles per year with $1500 upfront. I almost fell out of the chair. I said that crazy, what's the Cap Cost?
He says 38% which doesn't answer my question so I said "what's the sticker? What are the incentives?" He acts like I'm speaking a foreign language but finally says: "$20,000 with $2,000 incentive which equals $18,000.

The sleazeman (excuse me salesman) then says "these Darts don't lease well, why don't you buy?" and goes into a pitch for $295/mo. For 75-84 months. I ask my relatives if they want to pay for 7 years on a car that loses 2/3 of it's value in 3 years. The salesman jumps in with "oh most people don't keep them, they trade after 3-4 years". I respond that would result in them rolling over negative equity into the next car and he said "don't worry we'll take good care of you then".

We are now so deep into the BS that I want to grab them and run but I promised my wife I wouldn't "try to take charge of everything like you usually do". Instead I try to prod them into going home and "thinking" about it since it's obvious their being hustled.

Unfortunately, my relatives were determined to leave with something, even a bad deal, and proceeded to write the book on how to not buy a car. "Will you give us something for our old car?" Asks the SIL. "It doesn't run and it was a bad car from the start". "We really, really need a car right now" chimes in the BIL. They shake hands. On $270/month with a dealer installed leather interior which I got them a 35% discount. Inside my head I'm screaming Nooooooooo!

I beg off before I have to witness the slaughter in F&I and get the heck out of there. I have no idea what interest they'll be paying but I'll suggest they later try to refi at their credit union for a shorter term. They'll probably ignore me.

dino001

Some people can't be helped, even if their life depended on it. They'd rather blame Bush, Obama, global warming, globalization, Wall Street bankers, or Sun spots.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

berri said:

Can paddles on automatics really make all that much difference mathematically? Seems to me the computer will kick in before that happens and override the paddles unless you mess with the underlying computer chip.

In a manual mode the computer will only kick in if you approach the rev limiter then it will shift up. Or if you slow down without shifting it will down shift before the engine has a chance to lug. It will also not allow you to shift up unless your engine speed is high enough for the shift, or down shift if your engine speed is to high. Other than that it shifts when you want it to.

So yes it can and does make a difference.

My Eclipse in manual mode (stick version of paddles) would hold 1st gear right up to the rev limiter and let you bounce off it all you wanted. I liked that better than the paddles on the Mustang which I have used exactly once.

When I want to get frisky now I just drop it in sports mode and it hold the revs in the sweet spot.

nelsonf

Dealer installed leather in a base dart? Oh the humanity!