2015 BMW X1 Lease Questions

kyfdx

enki941 said:

kyfdx said:

They are adding $200 to the base acq.fee
Bumping the MF from .00130 to .00170
Adding a massive $800 dealer fee...

So, at least $1000 extra on your deal, plus a money factor markup that adds another $30/mo. to the payment...

Tax: Any money paid upfront has to be taxed upfront, as it's been removed from the monthly payment... (doesn't apply to non-taxable government fees, but does apply to acquisition fees and dealer fees, plus cap cost reductions)

So we went back this morning to the dealership to work out the financing. I had spoken to the sales guy earlier and explained my calculations and let him know that I wasn't going to pay an exorbitant finance fee just because I got the car for less. I also let him know I wanted to look at a 39/15k lease with zero down, but paying off all the fees in cash (~$2300). After we arrived and sat down to crunch numbers, the finance guy comes over and tries another BS monthly payment offer. So I break out the spreadsheet and start running the numbers and explain how his numbers don't add up. Eventually, I get him to admit that they are NOT using the base (0.0013) rate. He says they only do that on promotions... He says he'll be right back and speaks to the manager. He comes back a few minutes later with some new projections. Again, they are too high. He said they were using a .0019 rate, as this is what they customarily do, but would knock it down to .0017 for me. But again, the numbers don't add up even with his figures, as he wanted $455/month for $37,100 at 39/15k with $0 down (which is what I decided to go with in regards to terms). I came up with $444 or something like that. In the end, I finally said that my numbers show $416.93 (6.5% tax inclusive) on that lease rate at 0.0013. I would come up to $425/month, which would make it about 0.0014, but wouldn't go any higher. The finance guy says the manager won't go for it and walks away. My wife and I decide it isn't worth it so we get up and start walking out. I'm not sure if the finance guy meant he was going to check (it was kind of hard to understand him), but just as we get to the door the sales manager comes over and asks what he can do to help. I say once again that I know the numbers and the most I'm doing is $425. He says to give him a second, goes and has a group talk, then comes back and agrees. So after a lot of wasted time, we end up getting:

MSRP: $40950
Negotiated Sale Price: $37100
Residual: $24979.50
Taxes and Fees: About $2200
$0 Down
Money Factor: ~0.0014
39 Months @ 15k Miles/Year for $399 ($425 inc tax).

Their fees were a bit high (yay Florida) and I ended up paying about $8/month more than I wanted, but we did get a very good deal on the car, even after fees, so I think it was a good decision. Oh, on top of that, when we went through the financing portion at the end (signing, etc.), the finance manager said he would include the key coverage for free by knocking down the price of the car to the equivalent cost, which took about $350 more off. Since the keys are $500 and this has no deductible and covers damage and loss, it's probably a nice add-on (especially for free). Helps to make up for the $315 more we're paying in finance over the course of the lease.

In the end, we're very happy with the car, but I was a bit put off by the finance tactics. I'm not sure if this is normal or not for BMW, but they seemed to try and be deceptive in their pricing. They flat out told me it was at the base rate, and were only honest after I called them on it. We argued over it quite a bit, but my wife and I battled through it and are good to go now. I didn't really want to walk away, but we were going to if they didn't meet our price. Glad it worked out and we're a member of the Bimmer Club now!

It sucks that you have to go through all that to get a fair deal. But, good job with it!

Even after they admitted they weren't using the .00130, they lied again and said they cut the money factor from .0019 to .0017! .0017 is the MAX allowed!

Shewww.... way to stick with it. Enjoy your new car!

enki941

kyfdx said:

It sucks that you have to go through all that to get a fair deal. But, good job with it!

Even after they admitted they weren't using the .00130, they lied again and said they cut the money factor from .0019 to .0017! .0017 is the MAX allowed!

Shewww.... way to stick with it. Enjoy your new car!

Wow, so he definitely lied to me on that, and likely many other things. I wish I would have known that yesterday, I would have gone off on the guy.

With that being the case, they must have been playing a ton of other games on the numbers behind the scenes, because the original figures showed an effective MF of .0021+. They probably added a thousand or so somewhere and buried it in the monthly figure. As I mentioned earlier, none of our numbers matched, which is why I finally just gave them a 'take it or leave it' one.

It's pretty sad because the rest of the people I dealt with there were very nice. The sales guy we worked with seemed like a genuinely nice guy. The sales manager, who finally agreed to the terms, was also good to work with. And when we did the finance paperwork, that guy was great too. We never met the manager (not sure what role, possibly GM) who was the 'man behind the curtain' during the negotiations, but I'm sure he was the one working with the front line finance guy who was making up these numbers. I imagine a lot of people get taken advantage of by those two.

But in the end, we're happy with the numbers. And we love the car. I spent over an hour last night reading through the manual and was shocked by all the extra features I didn't know the car even had -- I didn't get a chance to meet with the 'BMW Genius' since we needed to leave. It's definitely the most complex car I've ever driven. I've never actually read a car manual before, outside of random searches for bits of information, but definitely needed to on this car.

Thanks again for your help!

gopackgo413

I am currently looking at leasing a 2015 X1 with the cold weather package and premium package in Illinois.  The dealer I am dealing with mentioned the owners choice option being a better deal.  The sales person said that the APR on the owners choice was approximately 4% and was not really negotiable.  Is this truly the case? The price offered on the vehicle was $34860 (Msrp $38800) which included the $1000 holiday cash.  The lease I looked at was 39 months and 10k miles.  They initially told me for a lease is thr MF would be .0017 but that rate could go down based on my credit.  The residual was 64% and I believe the owners choice option had the same residual.  I was told the lease acquisition fee did not apply to owners choice.  Is there a reason to go with a standard lease instead of owners choice?  The payments presented were lower under the owners choice option.

Michaell

gopackgo413 said:

I am currently looking at leasing a 2015 X1 with the cold weather package and premium package in Illinois.  The dealer I am dealing with mentioned the owners choice option being a better deal.  The sales person said that the APR on the owners choice was approximately 4% and was not really negotiable.  Is this truly the case? The price offered on the vehicle was $34860 (Msrp $38800) which included the $1000 holiday cash.  The lease I looked at was 39 months and 10k miles.  They initially told me for a lease is thr MF would be .0017 but that rate could go down based on my credit.  The residual was 64% and I believe the owners choice option had the same residual.  I was told the lease acquisition fee did not apply to owners choice.  Is there a reason to go with a standard lease instead of owners choice?  The payments presented were lower under the owners choice option.

Owners' Choice is better in IL as the sales tax laws force tax to be applied to the entire cap cost. That law, however, is changing on 1/1/15 and only the monthly payment will be subjected to sales tax on a lease.

.00130 is the base MF, and the only one you should consider if you decide to lease.

I'm showing the owners choice APR as 3.00%; not sure if the dealer is allowed to mark that up like they are a lease MF.

gopackgo413

Michaell said:

I am currently looking at leasing a 2015 X1 with the cold weather package and premium package in Illinois.  The dealer I am dealing with mentioned the owners choice option being a better deal.  The sales person said that the APR on the owners choice was approximately 4% and was not really negotiable.  Is this truly the case? The price offered on the vehicle was $34860 (Msrp $38800) which included the $1000 holiday cash.  The lease I looked at was 39 months and 10k miles.  They initially told me for a lease is thr MF would be .0017 but that rate could go down based on my credit.  The residual was 64% and I believe the owners choice option had the same residual.  I was told the lease acquisition fee did not apply to owners choice.  Is there a reason to go with a standard lease instead of owners choice?  The payments presented were lower under the owners choice option.

Owners' Choice is better in IL as the sales tax laws force tax to be applied to the entire cap cost. That law, however, is changing on 1/1/15 and only the monthly payment will be subjected to sales tax on a lease. .00130 is the base MF, and the only one you should consider if you decide to lease. I'm showing the owners choice APR as 3.00%; not sure if the dealer is allowed to mark that up like they are a lease MF.

So if the sales tax law is changing on 1/1 would it be better just to wait it out and hope incentives are similar?  Was the price negotiated fair?  Thanks for the assistance!

Michaell

gopackgo413 said:

Michaell said:

gopackgo413 said:

I am currently looking at leasing a 2015 X1 with the cold weather package and premium package in Illinois.  The dealer I am dealing with mentioned the owners choice option being a better deal.  The sales person said that the APR on the owners choice was approximately 4% and was not really negotiable.  Is this truly the case? The price offered on the vehicle was $34860 (Msrp $38800) which included the $1000 holiday cash.  The lease I looked at was 39 months and 10k miles.  They initially told me for a lease is thr MF would be .0017 but that rate could go down based on my credit.  The residual was 64% and I believe the owners choice option had the same residual.  I was told the lease acquisition fee did not apply to owners choice.  Is there a reason to go with a standard lease instead of owners choice?  The payments presented were lower under the owners choice option.

Owners' Choice is better in IL as the sales tax laws force tax to be applied to the entire cap cost. That law, however, is changing on 1/1/15 and only the monthly payment will be subjected to sales tax on a lease.

.00130 is the base MF, and the only one you should consider if you decide to lease.

I'm showing the owners choice APR as 3.00%; not sure if the dealer is allowed to mark that up like they are a lease MF.

So if the sales tax law is changing on 1/1 would it be better just to wait it out and hope incentives are similar?  Was the price negotiated fair?  Thanks for the assistance!

I don't see a huge change coming in January for BMW.

I can't comment on the price; I'm not in the market for a car like that. Use the "Make / Model / Year" pull downs to help establish a target price.

jmt88

Good morning -
Trying to get to the bottom of a lease offer:
2015 X1 2.8xDrive
MSRP: 38645
Sales Price: 33962
RV: 24733
Tax: 2086 (can't get this number - should be 6%)
Doc Fee: 299 (correct for Md)
Filing/Tire fees; 41
Title Fee: 100
Original MF: 0.0017
They are quoting a lease payment of 420 with 1K down
Even after adding the Acq fee of $725, my calculator comes up with a significantly lower number.
What am I missing?

Thanks

Michaell

jmt88 said:

Good morning -
Trying to get to the bottom of a lease offer:
2015 X1 2.8xDrive
MSRP: 38645
Sales Price: 33962
RV: 24733
Tax: 2086 (can't get this number - should be 6%)
Doc Fee: 299 (correct for Md)
Filing/Tire fees; 41
Title Fee: 100
Original MF: 0.0017
They are quoting a lease payment of 420 with 1K down
Even after adding the Acq fee of $725, my calculator comes up with a significantly lower number.
What am I missing?

Thanks

Maryland taxes the entire selling price; is the dealer adding this to the selling price for a net cap cost?

Base MF is .00130, so the dealer is marking that up on you for extra profit.

If I add in the taxes and fees to the sale price (total $37,164.72), with the MSRP you've provided, assuming a 39/15 lease residual of 61% and the base MF of .00130, I get a payment of $427.45. If you give them $1K at signing, the payment drops by about $25/mo.

jmt88

thanks. as far as i can tell, the taxes are on the sales price. the payment includes the taxes and, I assume, the acquisition fee. the lease quoted is a 39/10k. Using Edmunds calculator, I get near $390 with nothing down. Can't figure out where the extra $$ comes from on his quote.

i think there's something hidden...

Michaell

jmt88 said:

thanks. as far as i can tell, the taxes are on the sales price. the payment includes the taxes and, I assume, the acquisition fee. the lease quoted is a 39/10k. Using Edmunds calculator, I get near $390 with nothing down. Can't figure out where the extra $$ comes from on his quote.

i think there's something hidden...

Dealer fee? License and/or tags for the state? Ask the dealer for a full breakdown.

jmt88

The dealer finally sent me an example calculation sheet. First, they are using $925 for the acquisition fee, not $725. Second, they are calculating the finance fee by adding selling price plus RV, multiplying by the MF. They then add the depreciation (monthly) as well as the monthly share of fees and taxes to that number. I thought this is what the calculator did automatically so I still can't figure out why there's a discrepancy. If it was $2-3, I probably wouldn't care but it's over $30 per month for 39 months.

kyfdx

jmt88 said:

The dealer finally sent me an example calculation sheet. First, they are using $925 for the acquisition fee, not $725. Second, they are calculating the finance fee by adding selling price plus RV, multiplying by the MF. They then add the depreciation (monthly) as well as the monthly share of fees and taxes to that number. I thought this is what the calculator did automatically so I still can't figure out why there's a discrepancy. If it was $2-3, I probably wouldn't care but it's over $30 per month for 39 months.

That's the correct way to calculate it..

The acq.fee is marked up for extra profit.

If those are the only issues, you are doing pretty well.

jmt88

I still can't get it to work out. Using the dealer's sheet (which follows the steps outlined above, which should be how the typical calculator works), I get $400/month with MF = 0.0013 and nothing down. Using the Edmund's calculator, I get $390/month. I realize it's only $10 different but I still think I'm missing something.

Here are the numbers:
MSRP 38645
Selling price: 33962
RV = 24733
Acq fee= 725
Taxes = 2081 ( dealer says Acq fee is part of cost and is taxed)
Fees = 440
Term = 39m/10k miles

Maybe the various calculators are inaccurate?

Michaell

jmt88 said:

I still can't get it to work out. Using the dealer's sheet (which follows the steps outlined above, which should be how the typical calculator works), I get $400/month with MF = 0.0013 and nothing down. Using the Edmund's calculator, I get $390/month. I realize it's only $10 different but I still think I'm missing something.

Here are the numbers:
MSRP 38645
Selling price: 33962
RV = 24733
Acq fee= 725
Taxes = 2081 ( dealer says Acq fee is part of cost and is taxed)
Fees = 440
Term = 39m/10k miles

Maybe the various calculators are inaccurate?

$400.40/mo if I roll in taxes and fees into the cap cost.

dcc476

I am also in Maryland, and have the following lease offer on the table for an x1 s28:

1. MSRP = $38,575
2. Resid. = $23,531/61%
3. Term = 39 mo.
4. Mileage = 15k/year

5. Selling Price = $34,797
6. Acq. Fee = $925
7. Doc Fee = $300
8. Add-ons = $158 (Nitrogen and a "fuel surcharge")
9. Non-tax Fees = $331 (yet to get detail on these)
10. Tax = $2,115

11. Down Pmt = $0
12. Net Cap Cost = $38,626
13. Money Factor = 0.0017

Payment comes to $493 per their numbers. Depreciation = $387, Lease Charge = $106. I'm just using the MF x (C+R) + (C-R)/N = PMT formula to double check their math and I'm coming within a couple dollars/month.

Judging by the post from jmt88, also in Maryland, this doesn't seem like a great deal. This is the second dealer I've negotiated with in my area.

My goal is to get at or below $450/mo. with 0 down. I should be able to get there but have a couple questions on how to do so:

- What of the above should I target to lower? Selling price? MF? Fees? A combination of the above?

- This is a configure-and-build car, and this is the second dealer to hint, rather strongly, that they'd prefer to sell me a car from inventory. Since the features I want (Sport Line, H/K audio) are almost non-existent, I'd prefer not to go that route. In fact, I would think dealers would *love* to sell a configured vehicle as they make money essentially for processing paper - no vehicle to inventory and carry overhead. Am I being handed a line? Should I "consider" an in-stock vehicle as leverage?

Thanks in advance.

kyfdx

dcc476 said:

I am also in Maryland, and have the following lease offer on the table for an x1 s28:

1. MSRP = $38,575
2. Resid. = $23,531/61%
3. Term = 39 mo.
4. Mileage = 15k/year

5. Selling Price = $34,797
6. Acq. Fee = $925
7. Doc Fee = $300
8. Add-ons = $158 (Nitrogen and a "fuel surcharge")
9. Non-tax Fees = $331 (yet to get detail on these)
10. Tax = $2,115

11. Down Pmt = $0
12. Net Cap Cost = $38,626
13. Money Factor = 0.0017

Payment comes to $493 per their numbers. Depreciation = $387, Lease Charge = $106. I'm just using the MF x (C+R) + (C-R)/N = PMT formula to double check their math and I'm coming within a couple dollars/month.

Judging by the post from jmt88, also in Maryland, this doesn't seem like a great deal. This is the second dealer I've negotiated with in my area.

My goal is to get at or below $450/mo. with 0 down. I should be able to get there but have a couple questions on how to do so:

- What of the above should I target to lower? Selling price? MF? Fees? A combination of the above?

- This is a configure-and-build car, and this is the second dealer to hint, rather strongly, that they'd prefer to sell me a car from inventory. Since the features I want (Sport Line, H/K audio) are almost non-existent, I'd prefer not to go that route. In fact, I would think dealers would *love* to sell a configured vehicle as they make money essentially for processing paper - no vehicle to inventory and carry overhead. Am I being handed a line? Should I "consider" an in-stock vehicle as leverage?

Thanks in advance.

Well. $300 doc fee and $158 for Nitrogen are kind of BS charges, but I'd work on the money factor and the acquisition fee.. The base MF is .00130 and the base acq.fee is $725 (going up to $795 on January 1st). Getting the base acq.fee and MF will knock $30/mo. off.

The selling price is pretty decent..

doobee

What are the RV and MF for 2014 X1s? 36/10k and 39/10k. If 2014 numbers are not available what are the 2015 numbers. Also, is there loyalty money for this car?

Michaell

doobee said:

What are the RV and MF for 2014 X1s? 36/10k and 39/10k. If 2014 numbers are not available what are the 2015 numbers. Also, is there loyalty money for this car?

No 2014 numbers.

2015 - .00130 and 64% for 39/10. $1000 holiday cash

jmt88

Here's a new question. I've found a nice deal on a dealer demo with 4k miles, pretty heavily discounted. Since it's never been titled or sold, they say they can offer lease/finance just like a new vehicle. What about the Holiday cash? Do you know if it can be applied as well?

Thanks

Michaell

jmt88 said:

Here's a new question. I've found a nice deal on a dealer demo with 4k miles, pretty heavily discounted. Since it's never been titled or sold, they say they can offer lease/finance just like a new vehicle. What about the Holiday cash? Do you know if it can be applied as well?

Thanks

Yes, it can be leased if not titled. Also qualifies for the holiday cash incentives.

jmt88

Thanks. So here's the deal:
2015 2.8 xDrive, loaner vehicle, 4k miles
Ultimate and Cold Weather, Sapphire Black
MSRP - 41525
Invoice - 38630
Selling - 33898
MF - 0.0013
RV = 64% (39months/10k per year)
Payment $377
1st month down, nothing else.
I think they are adding the destination charge into the 33898 number.
Tax is 6%
Fees run about $440.

Solid?

Michaell

jmt88 said:

Thanks. So here's the deal:
2015 2.8 xDrive, loaner vehicle, 4k miles
Ultimate and Cold Weather, Sapphire Black
MSRP - 41525
Invoice - 38630
Selling - 33898
MF - 0.0013
RV = 64% (39months/10k per year)
Payment $377
1st month down, nothing else.
I think they are adding the destination charge into the 33898 number.
Tax is 6%
Fees run about $440.

Solid?

If the $377/mo is with tax, very solid.

jmt88

Yes, $377 is the final payment. It's by far the best offer I've found, mostly because it's a returned loaner and obviously supported by BMW. Better than the new X1 at the other dealership. Looks like my other half will be driving something new this year…
thanks for your help

Michaell

jmt88 said:

Yes, $377 is the final payment. It's by far the best offer I've found, mostly because it's a returned loaner and obviously supported by BMW. Better than the new X1 at the other dealership. Looks like my other half will be driving something new this year…
thanks for your help

Not bad for a $41K sticker. Enjoy!

smartfanatics

jmt88 said:

Yes, $377 is the final payment. It's by far the best offer I've found, mostly because it's a returned loaner and obviously supported by BMW. Better than the new X1 at the other dealership. Looks like my other half will be driving something new this year…
thanks for your help

Pretty solid deal! I am working with a dealer now that is getting very close to those numbers on a brand new car with a sticker of $41K

bluemonchichi

Lot of MD folks chiming in, figured I'd throw mine to the collective wisdom of the group here:

2015 sDrive + Premium pkg

MSRP $34,595
Cap Cost Reduction $4,446 ("Discount")
Sales Price $30,148 ("Adjusted Price")
Nitrogen/Fuel $157

Final Sales Price $30,306

Reg Fee $41
Doc Fee $299
Tax $1,240
Non-Tax Fees $81

Net Price $31,966

Term 39/10k
MF .0019
RV 64%
Monthly Pay $305

Notes: I see the high MF, and know it's easy pickings for getting down closer to the base .0013; however, the credit is in the Standard Plus, or whatever the mid-tier is called this year, so while high, I am not shooting for .0013 without some concrete bargaining knowledge that takes into account the reality of average credit.

The down payment could also come down/off, but the goal is to both reduce overall cost plus keep payments low. If that 2500 could come in the form of a non-shifted (i.e. money comes from somewhere else to compensate) reduction in the cap cost, fine. But I'm at a loss as to where it might logically come from.

The $725 acq fee should be reflected in the sales price (it's not broken out), and the $1000 holiday cash should be in the CCR. This was confirmed orally, but it's not broken down in writing.

Anything I'm missing here? We're close enough to pulling the trigger that any help would be directly useful (and much obliged!)

Michaell

bluemonchichi said:

Lot of MD folks chiming in, figured I'd throw mine to the collective wisdom of the group here:

2015 sDrive + Premium pkg

MSRP $34,595
Cap Cost Reduction $4,446 ("Discount")
Sales Price $30,148 ("Adjusted Price")
Nitrogen/Fuel $157

Final Sales Price $30,306

Reg Fee $41
Doc Fee $299
Tax $1,240
Non-Tax Fees $81

Net Price $31,966

Term 39/10k
MF .0019
RV 64%
Monthly Pay $305

Notes: I see the high MF, and know it's easy pickings for getting down closer to the base .0013; however, the credit is in the Standard Plus, or whatever the mid-tier is called this year, so while high, I am not shooting for .0013 without some concrete bargaining knowledge that takes into account the reality of average credit.

The down payment could also come down/off, but the goal is to both reduce overall cost plus keep payments low. If that 2500 could come in the form of a non-shifted (i.e. money comes from somewhere else to compensate) reduction in the cap cost, fine. But I'm at a loss as to where it might logically come from.

The $725 acq fee should be reflected in the sales price (it's not broken out), and the $1000 holiday cash should be in the CCR. This was confirmed orally, but it's not broken down in writing.

Anything I'm missing here? We're close enough to pulling the trigger that any help would be directly useful (and much obliged!)

Is the $4446 out of pocket or a dealer discount? You should be shooting for 5-7% off sticker, before the incentive money is applied.

If the money is coming from you, you can (and should) use it instead to make multiple security deposits (MSD) to buy down the MF. The advantage is that you get that money back at the end of the lease.

If you are not top tier credit, then it's not likely you'll get the base MF of .00130.

bluemonchichi

Good question. I neglected to list the $2,500 down payment, maybe because I was hesitant to mislead (in case I was double-counting things). It appeared (to me) that both the 2500 & 1000 "holiday cash" were rolled into the overall discount. Upon asking the dealership/salesperson, I was told (first over the phone, then in person) those were both separate. Running the numbers, there's no way.

The non-standard use of terms is frustrating. I know there's industry standards, but on offers, fine-print, websites, calculators, and in-person discussions everything gets jumbled. One time something's here, another time it's another place. And it's intentional, which raises my ire. Help me cut through the BS, please!

Michaell

bluemonchichi said:

Good question. I neglected to list the $2,500 down payment, maybe because I was hesitant to mislead (in case I was double-counting things). It appeared (to me) that both the 2500 & 1000 "holiday cash" were rolled into the overall discount. Upon asking the dealership/salesperson, I was told (first over the phone, then in person) those were both separate. Running the numbers, there's no way.

The non-standard use of terms is frustrating. I know there's industry standards, but on offers, fine-print, websites, calculators, and in-person discussions everything gets jumbled. One time something's here, another time it's another place. And it's intentional, which raises my ire. Help me cut through the BS, please!

Ask them for the net cap cost, and an explanation of how they calculate that number.

blazerino

I stopped by a north NJ dealership today and was quoted $538 for 36 months @ 12k year for a x28i with MSRP @ $41,700. Does this sound like a good deal?

What should I be expecting for MF and % residual for 36 months 12k year?

I believe the dealer took $3,000 off the MSRP. Does this sound reasonable or should I shop around more? There are 4-5 BMW dealerships within a 30 minute drive of me.

Michaell

blazerino said:

I stopped by a north NJ dealership today and was quoted $538 for 36 months @ 12k year for a x28i with MSRP @ $41,700. Does this sound like a good deal?

What should I be expecting for MF and % residual for 36 months 12k year?

I believe the dealer took $3,000 off the MSRP. Does this sound reasonable or should I shop around more? There are 4-5 BMW dealerships within a 30 minute drive of me.

.00130 and 64% for 36/12. $538/mo sounds like a lot but if you roll everything into the cap cost, I suppose you can get there.

Ask the dealer what the net cap cost is, and have them explain exactly how they got to that number.

I would absolutely recommend you contact multiple dealers; competition is your friend.

blazerino

Michaell said:

blazerino said:

I stopped by a north NJ dealership today and was quoted $538 for 36 months @ 12k year for a x28i with MSRP @ $41,700. Does this sound like a good deal?

What should I be expecting for MF and % residual for 36 months 12k year?

I believe the dealer took $3,000 off the MSRP. Does this sound reasonable or should I shop around more? There are 4-5 BMW dealerships within a 30 minute drive of me.

.00130 and 64% for 36/12. $538/mo sounds like a lot but if you roll everything into the cap cost, I suppose you can get there.

Ask the dealer what the net cap cost is, and have them explain exactly how they got to that number.

I would absolutely recommend you contact multiple dealers; competition is your friend.

Thanks a lot for the quick response. I actually just built my own lease calculator in excel and was able to arrive at $538.45 using these assumptions:

MSRP: $41,700
Negotiated Sale: $38,700 ($3,000 off MSRP)
Acquisition Fee: $850
Residual: 58%
Net Cap Cost: $40,541 (Sale price + Fees + NJ sales tax on depreciation)
MF: .0013

Seems like the root of the problem is the low residual.

Are there any tricks to negotiating a higher residual or is it as simple as asking for it? Would they think I am crazy for asking for 64-65% with the expectation that they will counter with 63%

I'm definitely going to shop around now that I know that they lowballed me on the residual.

kyfdx

Residuals aren't negotiable, they are set by the bank (BMWFS).

Are you sure you aren't looking at a 2014 model?

blazerino

kyfdx said:

Residuals aren't negotiable, they are set by the bank (BMWFS).

Are you sure you aren't looking at a 2014 model?

It's definitely the 2015 model, we went through the whole build together and then he printed out the build sheet and went to his manager and came back with $538/mo written on it.

I ran a couple different scenarios in the calculator (no $3,000 discount, reduced discount amount, ext) and the only way I could end up at the $538/mo was using the $3,000 discount the he offered with a 58% residual.

I am calculating the 58% residual on the total MSRP including the m sport line, technology package, leather seats, heated seats and destination fee. Are there any of these costs that shouldn't been counted into the residual?

Michaell

blazerino said:

kyfdx said:

Residuals aren't negotiable, they are set by the bank (BMWFS).

Are you sure you aren't looking at a 2014 model?

It's definitely the 2015 model, we went through the whole build together and then he printed out the build sheet and went to his manager and came back with $538/mo written on it.

I ran a couple different scenarios in the calculator (no $3,000 discount, reduced discount amount, ext) and the only way I could end up at the $538/mo was using the $3,000 discount the he offered with a 58% residual.

I am calculating the 58% residual on the total MSRP including the m sport line, technology package, leather seats, heated seats and destination fee. Are there any of these costs that shouldn't been counted into the residual?

Nope, the residual is based on the bottom line number on the window sticker (including destination).

The only other thing to consider is that this isn't a BMWFS sourced lease; the dealer is using a different lending institution.

blazerino

The sales guy called me today and quoted the following of 36/12k:

MSRP: $41,700
Sale Price: $38,675
Residual $26,688 (64%)
MF: 0.00130
Total Fees: $1,624.50
Sales Tax $1,172.25
Monthly Payment $499.27

Definatly heading in the right direction although I am a bit confused about the sales tax amount. I am in NJ and my understanding is that the sales tax is only calculated in the depreciated value of the car, which in this case is $11,987 which would make the sales tax @7% be $839.09.

Can someone clarify how sales tax should be calculated on a lease in NJ?

Thanks

kyfdx

blazerino said:

The sales guy called me today and quoted the following of 36/12k:

MSRP: $41,700
Sale Price: $38,675
Residual $26,688 (64%)
MF: 0.00130
Total Fees: $1,624.50
Sales Tax $1,172.25
Monthly Payment $499.27

Definatly heading in the right direction although I am a bit confused about the sales tax amount. I am in NJ and my understanding is that the sales tax is only calculated in the depreciated value of the car, which in this case is $11,987 which would make the sales tax @7% be $839.09.

Can someone clarify how sales tax should be calculated on a lease in NJ?

Thanks

I'm not certain of what exactly NJ taxes.... whether it's depreciation, or possible total payments. But, fees paid upfront like acquistion and document fees are also taxable..

blazerino

Here is the breakdown of the fees for the lease quote I received:

$389 Documentation
$925 Bank Fee
$304.50 Motor Vehicle
$6.00 Tire Fee

Can the bank fee still be reduced to $725 or did bmwfs increase it to $925?

kyfdx

blazerino said:

Here is the breakdown of the fees for the lease quote I received:

$389 Documentation
$925 Bank Fee
$304.50 Motor Vehicle
$6.00 Tire Fee

Can the bank fee still be reduced to $725 or did bmwfs increase it to $925?

I've heard rumors that the bank fee went up in January, but no confirmation.

kateblake

I just found this forum and might now be having buyer's remorse.

A dealer I've been working with in Indiana just worked up a lease for me with a sale price of $39,385.68 after going back and forth. The MSRP is $41,350.00.

It's a 36/12K lease, $4330 due at signing ($2750 of that is down payment, $1189 in fees and $391 is 1st payment).
$391.00 p/month (this includes taxes on the car because in Indiana you don't pay the taxes up front for a vehicle)

I thought I was getting a good deal... but maybe not? Help?

Michaell

kateblake said:

I just found this forum and might now be having buyer's remorse.

A dealer I've been working with in Indiana just worked up a lease for me with a sale price of $39,385.68 after going back and forth. The MSRP is $41,350.00.

It's a 36/12K lease, $4330 due at signing ($2750 of that is down payment, $1189 in fees and $391 is 1st payment).
$391.00 p/month (this includes taxes on the car because in Indiana you don't pay the taxes up front for a vehicle)

I thought I was getting a good deal... but maybe not? Help?

The base MF is .00130 and the 36/12 residual is 62%. If I use the MSRP you supplied and a net cap cost of $36,636 ($39,386 - $2750), I get a pre-tax payment of $386.48.

Indiana taxes the monthly payment?

Looks like you are doing just fine. Just note that we don't recommend you making a down payment - if the car is stolen or totaled, you lose that money.

You might be able to get a bit more of a discount from the sticker price. Reach out to another BMW dealer - competition will only help you.

kateblake

Michaell said:

kateblake said:

I just found this forum and might now be having buyer's remorse.

A dealer I've been working with in Indiana just worked up a lease for me with a sale price of $39,385.68 after going back and forth. The MSRP is $41,350.00.

It's a 36/12K lease, $4330 due at signing ($2750 of that is down payment, $1189 in fees and $391 is 1st payment).
$391.00 p/month (this includes taxes on the car because in Indiana you don't pay the taxes up front for a vehicle)

I thought I was getting a good deal... but maybe not? Help?

The base MF is .00130 and the 36/12 residual is 62%. If I use the MSRP you supplied and a net cap cost of $36,636 ($39,386 - $2750), I get a pre-tax payment of $386.48.

Indiana taxes the monthly payment?

Looks like you are doing just fine. Just note that we don't recommend you making a down payment - if the car is stolen or totaled, you lose that money.

You might be able to get a bit more of a discount from the sticker price. Reach out to another BMW dealer - competition will only help you.

Long story short: I went back and forth with another local dealer until he would actually give me a price. He was incredibly rude so I went to a different local dealer. They gave me their best offer and it was worse than his. So I told them about the rude guy and said if they would match it, I'd sign with them because I didn't want to give my business to someone who had been so rude to me.

The girl I signed with instead said it was only $100 above their invoice and she didn't know how the other dealership was even able to put together this deal (?? after reading through this forum it sounds like that might have been a lie??).

In Indiana, you pay the taxes across the course of your lease instead of paying the taxes on the car up front. So my taxes are baked into that $391 monthly payment.

So even though it's only $2K off MSRP it's not a bad deal? Based on the other numbers in the deal?

Leasing is pretty new to me and I tried my hardest to research everything ahead of time but I guess there's a big learning curve.

kyfdx

kateblake said:

I just found this forum and might now be having buyer's remorse.

A dealer I've been working with in Indiana just worked up a lease for me with a sale price of $39,385.68 after going back and forth. The MSRP is $41,350.00.

It's a 36/12K lease, $4330 due at signing ($2750 of that is down payment, $1189 in fees and $391 is 1st payment).
$391.00 p/month (this includes taxes on the car because in Indiana you don't pay the taxes up front for a vehicle)

I thought I was getting a good deal... but maybe not? Help?

At the base MF of .00130 and residual of 64%, I get a payment of $365.mo.+tax.. So, it doesn't appear they have marked up the money factor.

The base acquisition fee is $795, which the dealer can mark up to $995 for extra profit. Not sure what your $1189 in fees includes, outside of the acq.fee.

The selling price is a little less than 5% off MSRP.. The best deals we see are closer to 7% off..

Not a bad deal.. I don't like to make downpayments, though.. I'd keep the $2750 in my pocket and pay the extra $80/mo.

kateblake

kyfdx said:

I just found this forum and might now be having buyer's remorse. A dealer I've been working with in Indiana just worked up a lease for me with a sale price of $39,385.68 after going back and forth. The MSRP is $41,350.00. It's a 36/12K lease, $4330 due at signing ($2750 of that is down payment, $1189 in fees and $391 is 1st payment). $391.00 p/month (this includes taxes on the car because in Indiana you don't pay the taxes up front for a vehicle) I thought I was getting a good deal... but maybe not? Help?

At the base MF of .00130 and residual of 64%, I get a payment of $365.mo.+tax.. So, it doesn't appear they have marked up the money factor. The base acquisition fee is $795, which the dealer can mark up to $995 for extra profit. Not sure what your $1189 in fees includes, outside of the acq.fee. The selling price is a little less than 5% off MSRP.. The best deals we see are closer to 7% off.. Not a bad deal.. I don't like to make downpayments, though.. I'd keep the $2750 in my pocket and pay the extra $80/mo.

Phew. That takes a weight off my chest because I already put my deposit down.  Out of curiosity, what factors would sway a dealer to go 7% off? That doesn't leave much profit at all. 

Availability? Demand? Time of year? Competition? Location? All of the above?  

I tried to get the absolute best deal possible and this was the lowest I could get even after "walking away." The dealer was reluctant to even do this deal. 

kyfdx

kateblake said:

kyfdx said:

kateblake said:

I just found this forum and might now be having buyer's remorse.

A dealer I've been working with in Indiana just worked up a lease for me with a sale price of $39,385.68 after going back and forth. The MSRP is $41,350.00.

It's a 36/12K lease, $4330 due at signing ($2750 of that is down payment, $1189 in fees and $391 is 1st payment).
$391.00 p/month (this includes taxes on the car because in Indiana you don't pay the taxes up front for a vehicle)

I thought I was getting a good deal... but maybe not? Help?

At the base MF of .00130 and residual of 64%, I get a payment of $365.mo.+tax.. So, it doesn't appear they have marked up the money factor.

The base acquisition fee is $795, which the dealer can mark up to $995 for extra profit. Not sure what your $1189 in fees includes, outside of the acq.fee.

The selling price is a little less than 5% off MSRP.. The best deals we see are closer to 7% off..

Not a bad deal.. I don't like to make downpayments, though.. I'd keep the $2750 in my pocket and pay the extra $80/mo.

Phew. That takes a weight off my chest because I already put my deposit down.  Out of curiosity, what factors would sway a dealer to go 7% off? That doesn't leave much profit at all. 

Availability? Demand? Time of year? Competition? Location? All of the above?  

I tried to get the absolute best deal possible and this was the lowest I could get even after "walking away." The dealer was reluctant to even do this deal. 

Supply and demand, first.... then, competition. It's pretty hard to get a dealer to compete against themselves..

Michaell

I can't imagine there are a lot of BMW dealers in Indiana. We only have 5-6 in the entire state of Colorado.

kyfdx

Michaell said:

I can't imagine there are a lot of BMW dealers in Indiana. We only have 5-6 in the entire state of Colorado.

Yeah.. but, it's not like out West.. It's only a 2 hour drive to the next state, at most.. From Indianapolis, you can access 4 out of state BMW dealers within 2 hours.. Plus, most of the in-state dealers.

blazerino

Finally got an offer I'm happy with for an X1 35i.

MSRP $48,350
$5,330 down
$410/month
15k/year

How does this sound?

Michaell

blazerino said:

Finally got an offer I'm happy with for an X1 35i.

MSRP $48,350
$5,330 down
$410/month
15k/year

How does this sound?

What is the net cap cost? What is the breakdown of the $5330 - specifically, how much is going to cap cost reduction? How long is the lease?

blazerino

What is the net cap cost? What is the breakdown of the $5330 - specifically, how much is going to cap cost reduction? How long is the lease?

MSRP: $48,350
Sale Price: $43,942
Doc Fee: $299
Bank Fee: $795
Tire Fee; $6
Cap Cost Reduction: $5,000 (pre tax)
MF: 0.00130
Residual: 62%
Lease Term: 36 months / 15k per year
Monthly Payment: $410/month with $5,740 due on signing ($5,000 down payment, $330 registration, $410 first month)