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Comments
I wonder what % of Miata owners bought it as a second car?
I am definately treking down to my Miata dealer next month for a '01 and keeping my M3: the ultimate driving combination!
By the way, I traded my '95 RX7 for the M3 'cause knee surgery kept me from getting into the RX7. I wish now I had seen the light and kept the RX7 and bought a Protege or something that would have tide me over.
I 've been reading all the msgs posted here,which grow the Miata more and more into me, finally I decided I will go get a Miata.
Then the big question comes: Auto or manual?
I have never drive a manual before, and I 've only got two years of driving experiences.Plus the traffic in Bay area is very heavy in the morning, I originally wanted an Auto one. Then I read all your msgs about the fun of manaual Miata and that 90% of the fun will be taken away if you have an auto Miata, plus other factors(auto ones are really hard to get). I finally made up my mind and bought a manual one this past weekend. (Another happy owner!)
As I begin to practice on the shifts in a parking lot,I realized it is not an easy thing to change my auto transmission driving habbit: I always tend to push the brake to slow down especially during parking, but this will stalled the Miata engine.(Or what shall I do to achieve this very slow speed when I am parking ?)And I find it needs specialal attention that every time I come to a stop, I have to downshift to 1st gear before I get moving again.(is this right?). I do not have anyone in my family who knows how to drove a Manual , so I kind of lern from the web and coworkers and practice myself through trial and errors. BUT, every time the car jumps or gives noises, I felt like my heart broken: will I hurt this baby?
Miata Lovers: can you share some hot tips with me on how to get all the fun of driving a Miata without any frustration? I hope I can soon join you all in enjoy drving on the curly roads and clutch , shift like a breeze......
any thought will be appreciated(but please don't tell me I made a mistake by getting a manual one)
Your question about braking when parking leads me to think that you are used to braking with your left foot. If that's the case, that is the first habit you need to change. The left foot is for the clutch only. That way when coming to a stop, you push in the clutch with your left foot and brake with your right.
Practice a lot in parking lots or uncrowded, side streets so you don't feel the anxiety of impatient people behind you at a stop light. Do lots of slow starts. Without using the gas, slowly lift the clutch until you feel it starting to grab. I would sit there and just do that over and over until your leg has "memorized" the engagement point. Once you feel it starting to grab, slowly give a little gas and slowly let the clutch up more.
If you keep practicing, you'll get it. And I don't think you'll hurt the car, especially if you taske it slow while you're learning. Your clutch may suffer a bit faster wear than it would with an experienced driver but not a lot.
Another voice of encouragement here.
HANG IN THERE! Learning a manual is about one thing....practice practice practice. In a short time, you'll be doing fine and it WILL become second nature.
Are you using your left foot for braking? You'll have to unlearn that habit first.
Don't be afraid to ask one of your friends who know how to drive a manual come alone with you to give you some pointers. You can also hire a driving school by-the-hour lessons and you get to practice on their car if you really want some outside help.
1st gear is really meant for pulling away from a start. It's usually hard to get into unless you are stopped or almost stopped (in casual driving, I never downshift into 1st unless I am going less than 5 mph).
When you are inching along (i.e less than 5 mph), or need to move the car a few inches at a time, you will have to use your clutch as an on-off switch (a combination of giving it a bit of gas, and simutaneously using your left foot to alternately apply/release the clutch to keep your speed low). This is only necessary when you need to back up slowly or inch into a garage for example. When you come to a stop, you know that you have to push in the clutch to keep the car from stalling. You need to learn the reflex of clutching out just before you come to a stop. Everything seems awkward at first, but DON'T GIVE UP. Learning a manual is about unlearning the old habits and picking up a new one.
I had a hard time shifting smoothly until I learned that I was taking too much time between gears. I learned that when you shift, the revs on the engine automatically drop when you release the gas to shift. Since I was taking too much time, the revs dropped way too much and the car jerked when I let out the clutch. I learned to speed up my upshifts and everything smoothed out considerably. One other thing that I learned is that when I push the clutch, my heel doesn't touch the floor. My whole leg is in the air when I push the clutch. You can "feel" the clutch better that way. It actually took me a month before I felt that I wasn't thinking about shifting any more (ok, I was slow). I didn't have ANY outside help though. So don't get discouraged.
You are not likely to damage your car. I learned manual with my brand new first car. And it is still running very well ten years later. Grinding the gears is not a good thing (you HAVE to push the clutch all the way in when you move the lever), but I stalled the car plenty when I was learning. Also, don't rest your foot on the clutch when you are not using it.
http://user.icx.net/~mrmiata/2001/
When I was teaching my kids on a standard I recall that they were anxious and would rush everything (they'd seen me doing other things you can learn later, heel & toe etc.). Here's a clue: DON'T RUSH!
The key is to keep everything smooth, easy, both shifting up and down. It takes time, but someday you'll notice that you can shift just as smoothly as an automatic ... then you can start learning to do it real quick!
Let us know how it goes. What a great car to learn on ... the trans and clutch are very precise and forgiving. I learned on a 57 Plymouth Savoy w/ a column shift; what a pig!
Take care.
Joe W.
You said your first factor in choosing was "Fun." Later you said you have no children, etc.
I guess I'm not clear on why you have a question ... have you driven one lately (apologies, Ford).
Take care.
Joe W>
thanks for the note. One point of clarification I failed to make, we too have 2 cars, so the miata, if purchased would also be a 3rd car, like yours.
Understand your definition of a "sports car vs sports sedan/coupe/convert.", but in my case, I'm not limiting my idea of fun to the strict definition of a sports car (in any case, I didn't use that term in my msg, just the generic 'convertible', hope no Miata owners are offended by my callous grouping).
I have driven both, to answer your question. That's why it's a tough choice for me, they are both very fun and rewarding to drive, each with some clear strengths vs the other (Miata for feel/purity and response, BMW for power/speed, and seemingly inexhaustible handling capabilities). Since I can't picture having a bad time driving either car, I'll have to move you beyond Fun to other factors to help make the decision.
One cost factor(of several to analyze) that is now clear -- Insurance. Quotes from my current insurer priced the Audi/Mazda combination at roughly $1600/yr, and the BMW 330CiC at $1120. This $480 difference surprised me. The BMW also has free maintenance for 3 yrs. This brings an interesting line of discussion to the house ("but Honey, the BMW is actually more economical to own and operate!"). Give the Miata the gas & repair edge edge and the cost ownership is probably not a good tiebreaker, either.
The BMW is, inarguably, the safer vehicle.
I can't wait to drive both '01 models when available, there are other visceral inputs from driving besides "Fun" that will surface from the test drives.
Thanks so much for the great insights. This board has a lot of passion for great cars, and is a good reason why the Internet is changing the way people live and work -- and drive!
It is a good time to get a good deal with a 2000, the 2001 has some improvements in performance (bigger standard wheels, 15 HP more, slightly different front end look) but the price might go up and the car won't really be any more fun to drive (my speculation). So I don't believe it is worth waiting for since the price on the 2000's is very attractive.
As your questions, the 14 inch wheels are fine. Some people say the 15 inch wheels grip TOO well. If you are aggressively cornering, the 15 will break away into a slide more abruptly. The 14 inchers will slide earlier but the feel is more progressive and you can control the slide better.
The hardtop is not a necessity unless you get LOTS of snow and ice and sub-zero temps. Even then, it is debatable.
Thank you all for your valuable inputs: it makes me feel that my Miata bring me into a new family
I practiced on the parking lot for an Hour Monday, and yesterday I drove around the neiborhood streets for five circles. I stalled it once at the stop sign and got two honks because I was downshifting too slowly on the road.(when I shift from 3rd to 2nd, the car was nearly stopped and then suddenly jerked as I finished the shift) But I feel so much fun, so I just regard the honks as if other people were jealous about my cool car.
I yet have to practice dring on slope roads and moving inch by inch like in the morning traffic.Hopefully I will be able to drive to work soon.
There is one thing I am not quite understand: many of the inputs I got suggested just release the clutch and let the car move, without pushing gas for the beginning, and I did saw other people doing that on other cars, but on my Miata, if i do not give any gas, it stalls within a foot.Seems like it doen't have enough power just to move by itself. The lot I practise on is pretty flat, not a uphill or anything like that. Is it normal for Miata?
PS for sau1: I think the current deal for 2000 Miata is really good, I got mine at 0% APR for 24 months.this special finance end after Labor day.
What they intended for you to do is to learn at what point in the pedal travel the clutch starts making friction. You still need to apply gas, just apply *right* at that friction point for a smooth shift while moving. You'll need even more gas to start from rest.
-Colin
Am considering the following for a second car; 2001 Mazda Miata versus 2001 BMW Z3 versus 2001 BMW 330CiC. Has anyone any info on crashworthiness of these 3. In particular the side protection of the Miata bothers me a little as it has no side impact bags. I think the frontal crash safety on all would be adequate.
I am replacing a motorcycle as I have just gotten too old for 2 wheels, so I want another toy to replace it.
Phraed
The Miatas main safety advantage may be its agility/maneuverability. Surely not mass. Braking wasn't a real strongpoint if what I've read in magazines is correct. No standard ABS. Aren't you worried about roll-over protection either. In other words side impact is a small part of how safe a car is.
One of my favorite safety features is "power". Nothing worse than trying to pass on a 2 lane road and sitting in the opposite lane too long, with a vehicle approaching. Also nice to get up to highway speed on those short entrance ramps.
Speculation would say that the 330 is the safest car, the extra mass is important when colliding with other massive objects. The Z3 has some roll hoops and higher door sills so reasoning would say it's next.
Congratualtiona on learning to shift. When you are ready for graduate school there are a couple of good books that will teach you the finer points, Denis Jenkinson's "The Racing Driver" and Paul Frere's "Sports Car and Competition Driving" are a couple of classics. Skip Barber's "Going Faster" and Bob Bondurant's book (I forget the name) are a couple newer titles. These books are geared towards competition driving, but the principles are the same.
You said "The Miatas main safety advantage may be its agility/maneuverability." I agree that the raw power to escape an impending "situation" is very helpful and one of the things that worries me about the Miata is the lack of it. This is where the new BMWs may have an edge, though they weigh considerably more than the Miata.
I am not too worried about roll-over protection as it is rather difficult to roll one of these low CG vehicles unless you get hit in the side. The higher seat back in the 2001 Miatas might help a little bit in a rollover, but let's face it, a rollover in a convertible can be disastrous.
Oddly enough, back in 1952, a friend rolled my 41 ford convertible while maneuvering a curve too fast. (Really bad shocks on a tranverse leaf spring front end). Actually he flipped it over the full 360 degrees, and the biggest visible damage was to the hood at the bull nose. He survived without major injury, having hung on to the wheel during the whole thing. (No seat belts in those days). The car was tweaked too badly to repair and did not survive.
I am sure the Miata meets
federally mandated side impact standards, but is that adequate in a convertible?
I agree that 330 is the safest car, especially since it and the Z3 both have side impact air bags. The question is are the two BMWs enough fun to drive? Is the risk worth the Miata? And PRICE! Double+ for the BMWs.
It is a difficult decision.
The Miata is some 500 pounds lighter than the Z3. This weight is easily felt in day to day driving. I would easily say that additional risk is worth it, as I think there is no substitute for the feeling of lightness in a car. However, the BMW's have an edge in power and thus if you're looking for high G spine tingling feeling, you won't find it in the Miata. The Miata's fun comes whenever you turn the steering wheel and when you "throw" the car into corners. When you flick the steering wheel side to side doing manoevers, the car's reflexes seem quicker. To be honest, I like the BMW 3 for its own reasons....it's a far better all-around CAR. But if you are looking for something to have fun with, I think the Miata is the better toy. The Z3 is a good car but I never have felt comfortable with its limits handling. It can get twitchy at 90% of its capability. And it even looks big next to the Miata. The 3 series is a nice car, but it feels like a sedan....large, softly sprung, high. It all depends on your definition of fun. The Miata is far closer to the feeling of a motorcycle that you can get in any car in the North American market. It's feels low, small enough to drive into tight spaces, and the door sills are low and thus you feel more open. And it's cheap in comparison...what fun is making big payments on a car?
Like Warp Drive, I prefer avoiding the issue. And the sports cars will roll, easily, if you get sideways and go off the pavement. And, in that case, you should a)have a roll bar and b) get off the public streets!
Sorry if I sound like I'm not treating your question seriously, but any accident in a sports car is so serious that I think it's an error to trick yourself into thinking that one is "safer" than the other.
FWIW, I think the best safety investment is to spend the money on a good driving school, like where we're all hoping dsun ends up as soon as he masters around-town shifting! BTW, you sound like you're doing great -- keep practicing!
Take care.
Joe W>
You mentioned you have not practiced starts on a slope. Here's a helpful hint - use your parking brake lever. This is commonly used in Europe - use the parking brake to hold the car on a slope.
When you've come to a normal stop, apply the parking brake. When you're ready to start forward, begin applying some gas (rpms at 1800 - 2000) while slowly easing off on the clutch. When the engine first begins to bog down, slowly release the brake to allow the engine to take over and move the vehicle forward. You can also watch your tach (engine rpms) to see when the engine rpms start to drop to know when to begin release of the brake. As you get better at starting on the slopes, you'll quit using the brake-assisted start.
I live in Miami and use the a/c a lot, yes, with the top down. One thing I've noticed is that the engine rpms will drop 300 revs when the a/c compressor engages. If you don't watch for this, you stand a greater risk of a stall.
Enjoy the ride.....VROOM
Jim M.
If safety is a main concern, and you like to drive the BMW as much as the Miata - go with the BMW. If you're in an accident $15K or whatever may be an acceptable trade, for not providing the doctors with so many challenges. It's not just the death part, put the possibility of being paralyzed, or losing the ability to play sports, etc.
I'm considering a 2001 Miata, but I'm also considering a Camaro/Firebird, and safety is a legitimate reason.
My first major accident - being hit from behind at a tollbooth. It totalled my car. Fortunately my spare tire was properly inflated, and the car folded along the roofline, rather than crushing, and getting the gastank.
My other major accident was in a CRX in a city. It had just started pouring rain. I was going 25-30 mph, when a Ford F-350 X-cab pulled out from a stopsign, I hydroplaned and hit the front side of the truck. The damn thing was so big, there was no way around it! Maybe ABS or raintires would have did it, but I had about 50 feet to avoid a 20 foot long vehicle. Oh I knocked the hubcap off his wheel, I had $4K damage.
Would appreciate any feedback.
--
www.ciab.net/chumps
It is very tough not to spill some oil when changing the filter due to its location. And the spilled oil can make it look like you are leaking oil if not cleaned up thoroughly. So for your next oil change, insist on them (whether dealer or oil change place) cleaning up the spill thoroughly. Or better still, change the oil yourself and you can be sure it is done right.
I have had no problem with any lifter noise. What weight of oil are you using?
But the noise usually only lasted a few seconds, like five seconds maybe ... if it lasts for minutes and doesn't clear up w/a change to synthetic I'd ask the dealer to investigate what may be keeping the oil from splashing adequately.
Take care.
Joe W.
Second generation Miatas use solid lifters and should not have much noise.
And about the oil leak, sounds like the first oil change they didn't tighten up the filter and caused the spray. The other point is that there can be quite a large amount of oil trapped near the engine when you unscrew the oil filter. (Take a look there and you will know what I mean) So if someone is messy about oil change and not wiping up the spill, it would look like an oil leak.
I highly suggest that you buy one already setup. The average person autocrossing / time trialing / road racing is quite good about maintenance, so that's not as much of an issue. Plus the setup may already be done, or at least part way there, and the cars are *cheap*.
The solo2 nationals are coming up in the next two weeks, so look in GRM, Sportscar and other similar publications for racecars for sale around October. Too bad you're in NJ, if you lived where I did you could drive to the nationals and find the for sale cars firsthand.
-Colin
With many of your valuable comments, I am able to drive my Miata around town and on the freeway(once) now. I come up with this new question:
If there is a red light right at the exit of the freeway, which senorio shall I choose, if I am in 5th gear when I am on freeway.?
1. downshift from 5-->4, from 4-->3, 3--> 2, then stop at the red light.shift to 1.
2, use brake to slow down and stop at teh red, then shift directly from 5 to 1.
Theoretically, I know I should always do the downshift, but there are also some msgs about brake wear is more cheap to work on than gear box wear, and also I would most likely shift from 5 to 2 when my intention is from 5 to 4, since the gear box is so small, and that kills the car( terrible eng noise!)
One problem I noticed is that My Miata eng got REALLY HOT even after a 15 mins ride.while my other car (88 SAAB) never shows that much of a temperature increase,but of course, that SAAB is an automatic shift. Is this a problem? Is this because I did not use the right gear (most of the time, I avoid downshift as much as possible)so the eng was not working properly?Or shall I bring the car to the dealer?
The temp gauge does not show anything special.(always in the middle)
Thank you and eagerly to hear from you!
As far as downshifting when approaching a red light, I always do it for several reasons:
1. That way I'm in the right gear if for some reason, I need to accelerate (like the light turns green).
2. It sounds really cool.
3. I just like shifting.
I have never experienced engine, transmission or clutch problems due to this. If you do it right, I don't believe it significantly affects the life of these components. Of course, if you accidently downshift from 5th to 2nd, that could be really bad. A tip on how to prevent that - When you pull the shifter out of fifth, release your grip on it. It should be spring loaded to the center, so let it go where it wants and just pull straight back to get fourth. This may not be as quick but we're not working on quickness yet.
Here's my take and I'm sure there are lots of people who will disagree with me.
Generally, it is not worth the trouble to downshift through the gears. The number one reason *is* that the brakes are far cheaper. Secondly, it's a lot of work and there's no benefit in doing so. If I a slowing down, I will anticipate what gear I *need* to be in to accelerate and then downshift appropriately. To downshift smoothly, matching revs is something that you will learn eventually (to downshift smoothly, you must blip the throttle a bit to get the engine revs to shoot up a bit during downshift to match the transmission speed) Don't worry too much about matching revs, it's something that you will probably figure out later once you are more comfortable (I was driving for a year before I started to do this). Yes, you are right that sometimes it's hard to find the right gear since the spacing is so small (in my six-speed, I still miss the gear occasionally) Sometimes, it takes me more than one try to find the right gear...the price to pay for such a short shifter.
So in the your case of the traffic light, most of the time I will coast down in fifth gear and as the engine starts to get near idle point, I will then pop it into neutral in anticipation of the stop. Sometimes I will even pop it in neutral even earlier (If I am absolutely sure that I will be stopping and won't need the gas again). Sometimes, I will slow down to a moderate speed, downshift to third and then slow to a crawl and then neutral. It all depends how fast I slow down. If I think there's a chance I will need to use the gas pedal as I am slowing, I will downshift to the appropriate mid-gearjust so that I will be able to get going if I need to (you never want to be caught in fifth)
Confusing? Yes, but you will develop a feel for whether you should downshift at all. The bottom line is that I sometimes downshift once or twice, and somtimes I will stay in fifth until the stop.
You do not have to worry about your engine temperature as long as your temp guage is reading in the middle zone. My other cars that I've owned, a turbo Audi and the VR6 VW ran extremely hot compared to my Miata, but my Miata runs hotter than my last car, an Accord.
http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/003230.html
dsun, the synchromesh in your transmission will keep taking care of you for a long time. The more you practice the more fluid you'll become in your accuracy and speed ... when you goof up the synchro will make it so that it is pretty paintless, if not very pretty. I use the transmission even more than I use the brakes, like dgraves, because it's fun (and this is, after all, a Miata).
Take care.
Joe W.
I autocross and don't drive on the streets like grandma-- although I'm very safe and defensive. (no tickets in 4.5 years, so there.) I *do* wear out clutches, and rowing through the gears as you downshift is some additional wear. Not as bad as riding the clutch through a red light though-- don't do that!
-Colin
If this scenario is correct, sitting with the clutch disengaged at a stop light should create no more wear than when engaged with the tranny in neutral.
Please enlighten me. Although nowhere close to the first manual I've ever driven, this is the first manual I've ever owned.
Warpdrive - glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has an infrequent miss on the 6 speed. Thanks for giving me some comfort. Do you think those NASCAR and CART drivers ever miss one (and admit it!)?
However, the takeout / throwout bearing is in hell. The bearing itself is inexpensive to replace, but the labor is hellacious unless you're a serious DIYer. You could also bend the clutch fork, it's not designed to be disengaged for long periods.
If you're not familiar with exactly what a clutch looks like, go here:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/clutch2.htm
If you ride the clutch through stoplights you will be replacing t/o bearings and diaphrams often. If there's someone out there reading this who is about to refute me based on personal experience-- don't.
-Colin
Even if you choose to dismiss my experience, I'll throw on my engineer's hat, since I design mechanical devices for a living. Your statement that the forks are not designed for the sustained load of disengagement doesn't hold water technically. Metallic parts bend when the load exceeds the yield strength of the material. It is not a function of time. If it doesn't bend when you first push it in, it ain't ever going to bend. If the car is designed properly (maybe Subarus aren't
I would love to hear if someone actually had problems with bearings or forks that was attributed to holding the clutch in for red lights because I have never met anyone who had this problem.
I suppose it depends on what types of cars you've been driving the past 25 years. (Incidentally, I just turned 25 about 2 weeks ago.)
If you drove some firebreathing musclecars and still had no problems... well, for one you must have serious calf muscles. And two, I still think you're lucky.
Why risk the wear?
-Colin
Why risk the wear?
A. I don't believe there's any real risk.
B. This is what I've been doing my whole life and I see no need to change my habits. I think I had to drive this way because I learned to drive in NYC and when the lights turn green you have about 2 milliseconds to start moving or the guy behind leans on his horn.