I think I'm gonna get the Honda Accord EX V-6 Coupe in Graphite Pearl. Anyone wonder what will be the price (in your own best estimation) if I add these accessories:
--EP-R5 17" Alloy Wheels (yeah these are some nice wheels; also found on the Acura TSX, and also known as Silverstar Wheels or something like that) --Wheel Locks --Rear-Wing Spoiler --Splash Guards
I already checked at the Hondacars.com site and here at edmunds, but what do you think approximately the price of the car would be?
A local Boston dealer is advertising a new 2005 Accord for $11,988. I am assuming it is a DX; but even this model has an invoice price of $15,188. After holdback and dealer incentives (3% and $750), that would drop it to only $13,983.
How do the make up the $2000 difference? What should I be suspect of?
The dealer advertises a similar deal almost weekly. I beleive the price includes destination. Dealer is one of the largest in US.
The dealership I went to told me that the DX is not popular so they usually only carry one or two in the lot . Could it be that it has over 100 miles on it? Or could it be a way to get people in to the door? We fell for something like that several years ago. When we got there we were told it was the car in the showroom and it was SOLD. We did not know better and did not ask to see the invoice. :mad:
I got my 2001 Chevy Cavailer from carsdirect.com in and it turned out to be a :lemon: They are in partnership with your local dealerships but you are not sure which one until they tell you and the type of fees (some chrg a processing fee) depends on the dealership. You don't always get the color or the price indicated. They might be able to find one in the color you want but it has options added that you do not want or have the color you don't want but have the packages that you want. One would think that as big as they are that they would be able to find you what you want but that was over 4 years ago so things probably improved.
I always thought that they have the LOWEST price but that is not true until you shop around. I almost went to them again for the Honda Accord until I found a better deal in town. It was $900 less than carsdirect.com
No one can tell you how to spend your money, but, back in January, I was quoted a price of 22,995 (before TTL) for a 2004 EX V6 sedan without nav. (The EX V6's come standard with leather.) At that time Honda had a dealer incentive of $1300, although the dealer would not admit it. For myself, I decided to buy a 2005 LX V6 for a price of 21,700. With TTL, the out-the-door price was 23,200 (6% tax). I also got 2.9% for five years, which I could not get on the '04. I do not care for leather nor a moonroof. Alloys would have been nice, but I'll pick them up on Ebay.
In my case, even though the car was selling for $1,300 under invoice, I didn't think it was enough for a one year old car. Just remember, once you drive it off the lot, it is only worth book value. But if you like the car and plan to keep it a long time, that may not matter. Unless, God forbid, you have an accident and the car is "totaled."
The Situation: We went to a dealer to buy a car. We drove an AT tranny and didn't like it. We wanted to drive a manual but they didn't have one to let us drive. They had one on the lot but it hadn't been "safetied" yet so the salesman drove us around in it. We liked it and signed all the paperwork to purchase but told them that we wanted a clause stating that the sale wasn't final until we saw and drove the car. They wrote on their "we owe" ticket the following: No free options promised or implied No free work promised or impled No free loaner cars All sales are final Subject to viewing vehicle. All the contract is signed by the Finance Manager.
So, we went and looked at the car, didn't like it and want to walk away. They said that we have to come back on Wednesday and have it "unwound" by the General Sales Manager. So, the test drive stuff and signing happened Saturday. The viewing and decision that we didn't like the car happened today (Monday). Are they fishing? Can we walk away? We are in Washington State. :confuse:
Advice is appreciated. Why won't they just let us walk? What should we do?
thats at least 2000 under the price you will pay for this year. I dont agree that this is a bad deal. Remember that you will have 15,000 miles less for the year car that you have. you will get quite a bite more at trade in....
Why would you buy a car if you hadn't driven a sample? Some people say to buy a specific car you've driven first but, speaking for myself, the last 2 cars I bought ('91 Mazda Protegé and '04 Accord EX-L sedan) were dealer exchanges to get the color I wanted in each case.
So I didn't test drive the actual cars I bought, but did drive similar ones to be sure that I was comfortable in them and that they drove according to my expectations.
Both cars were excellent--the Mazda was a superb car for over 12 years, and the '04 Accord is outstanding in every way.
Any new Accord is a great car with manual or A/T--you won't find a better car.
I am not saying it's a bad deal. I am just relaying my experiences. I also wanted to point out that if low financing is a concern, it may not be available on the '04. I believe that right now there is 1.9% available for the 2005's for three years. Some of the savings may then be lost in interest payments. If one pays with cash, then this will not matter.
In other words, don't just buy a car because you got a great deal. Buy the car you really want. If the V6 with Nav. is the car, then this may be a good deal - if it's also the color you like.
Glad to hear you had no issues with Boch. Did you notice they are the # 1 Honda dealer, in units sold, (as they put it) "in the planet" for the month of February?....
Wow, your FE is unbelievable. That's great....I'm only (haha) getting 34 - 35 mpg on my PZEV, I4, Auto...no complaints here.
Wayne, Congrats on your new EX-L. Your MPG performance is one of the best I've seen in an I-4 EX-L. Can you share with us your driving techniques to achieve this kind of performance? Perhaps a new MPG Techniques topic on this web site would be in order?
Schaumburg Honda, Honda of Lisle, O'Hare Honda or Jacobs Twin. Stay away from Grand Honda in Elmhurst.
Just got an EX-V6 at Schaumburg 10 days ago and got a great deal.
No matter what they will not give you a fair price unless you bargain with them and do your homework before you get there. Schaumburg told me $26,200 plus options and destination (would have been $27,114) and then plus profit, but they were willing to talk because they knew I had bene shopping around and was ready to buy. After some bargaining I got it for $24,200 including destination and options package. Invoice was actually $24,028 plus destination and without the $400 options package ($24,942). Intellichoice has the lowest published Invoice prices and they explain how dealer holdback works. No matter what, you will have to pay a destination charge on an '05 so keep that in mind as well.
Other than that, if you want a fair price be willing to get up and walk out, it's the best and the easiest bargaining tool on the planet.
I just shopped the Accord, TL and Avalon. I also collected some quotes on the Mazda 6. I used Edmund's TMV and Carsdirect as benchmarks and considered holdback and any other incentives that these sites may not have considered (i.e. I'm not sure if Honda's $600 incentive to their dealers on the Accord in March was not baked into Cardirect's number and TMV is average selling price so only past incentives would be considered).
I consistantly found that you can work deals around $400 - $600 better than Carsdirect. This made sense to me since you are skipping the middleman (Carsdirect) and dealers are dealing to you the fee they would have been paying Carsdirect. I found this true with each of the cars I shopped.
Since Edmund's TMV is average selling price, the prices I negotiated were significantly better than the price they posted. Again, this made sense since TMV is not the best price, but the average selling price.
I started with Carsdirect, pushed the local dealers for their best quotes, and then when they put the ball in my court went with an offer of Carsdirect less $1,000 (considering current incentives and holdback) and no additional dealer fees. Typically, the dealer waived their fee and reduced their price to about Carsdirect less $500. Good luck!
hey plex, I have the same problem this morning :-). I sign papers yesterday for 04 Ex w/leather and navigation for 23,000 flat - this price includes destination and all other charges that they have. Excluding DMV and tax. So I still have a question if my price is good, but you still have room to negotiate :-) Unless we are buying the same car :-) :-)
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Good question. From what I have read you may have to pay the dealer's "doc fee" in addition to the price show, but this may not be true. It does not cost you anything to ask them - or to firm up the price online if it looks good to you.
I use their prices all the time as a benchmark, but always manage to find a similar deal direct - so far. Keep in mind the carsdirect is a service and charges for it - so the dealer that gets the sale pays them a fee. Obviously, if you can find the dealer posting the price and cut out carsdirect you might get an even better deal. But I don't know if that would be worth the effort for most folks - if they give a super deal and take care of you then it is still a good deal.
I have talked to folks who went through those Sam's/Costco plans and they also reported mixed results. I think it just depends on what you are looking for and your area.
My "program" is that you find out the invoice (dealer cost) of the car, any rebates or incentives on it (including those to the dealer) and figure the hold back. The resulting number (invoice - rebates - incentives - hold back) is the bottom line dealer makes no money price. Low volume dealers guard the hold back like a sacred shrine and might deal down close to invoice - rebates/incentives but they keep 100% of the hold back for themselves. High volume dealers seem to routinely quote down into the hold back. If you see that carsdirect can sell a car too cheap, then there is some missing money you don't know about (like the up to $750 current Accord incentive)
Dealer fees vary widely, so when requesting a quote get it for the car w/destination and all dealer fees. Compare this number VS true bottom of the line dealer cost. If you are into the hold back then (unless you missed a dealer incentive) you are getting a good deal.
Get your financing pre-arrange before you start, if the dealer can't beat it (with a simple interest, no setup fee loan) then use your own. On a lease, get the captive lease money factor and calculate your own payments - and also check 3rd party lease brokers for their numbers.
If you know the true bottom line cost and the true bottom line finance numbers, then you can put most of the worry behind you - you will know when you are getting a good deal. Will some other plan/service/method save you a couple hundred more? Maybe.
That is a super deal! Since it is a CD quote it already includes the destination fee. I think I would follow up on it, since even if the dealer puts $300-400 dealer fee on top of that deal you still have a great number.
As I posted, $18,200 in Louisville and $18,037 in Atlanta are the two best numbers I have seen THIS MONTH - both of these prices include the I4 LX w/AT and destination and dealer fees. Someone posted last month that Shreveport was doing $18,000 for the car (I think this included dealer fees).
From what I have read the only other thing would be the dealer "doc" fee and I would think that would be disclosed long before you have to sign any paperwork.
Like always, get pre-approved at your bank or credit union (or Capital 1 online) before going to the dealer. Then you have a nice, low, simple interest loan to buy the car and you can resist any pressure for dealer financing - unless they can do better.
Get the prices from H&A (Handa) for the add ons. There should be an ad for them at the top of the page. Get the carsdirect price on the car (and this will show you invoice). Negotiate the price of the car up from dealer cost - incentives - hold back up. Then tell them you want the add ons and try to pay H&A prices for them - and push for free install or at least reasonable labor costs.
Mis-print? You could do the Civic DX for $12,000 pretty easy with the current incentives.
Otherwise, it could be a "demo" car with 5k miles on it or something.
Could be a take-back - someone purchased and their financing didn't go through so they took it back (but it was never titled, so technically "new").
Or just the nailed to the floor. No air, manual tranny, in some unpopular color. They steer anyone that comes in to something with A/C or auto or different color. You would have to twist their arm to make them sell you this car.
Or just the one car, and "we sold it yesterday" when you call.
I too don't know what "safetied" is and why you could not drive the car.
If the car was not ready for you to drive, inspect, and purchase why did you sign all the paperwork? Why not just come back when it WAS ready and drive it and look it over, then sign ?
So when you went back what was wrong with the car that made you walk away? The wrong color? Too many miles? You just changed your mind? Your "we owe" didn't even give you the right to drive the car, just to view it - so I still can't understand why you would sign sign a thing.
Maybe it was just buyer's remorse?
In any case, if the "we owe" says subject to viewing - you didn't and told them to keep it. The dealer should un-wind the deal without any hassles to you (but may not).
The lowest invoice I've seen is on Intellichoice for $24,028 w/out destination. I jsut got one for $24,200 with Destination and $400 option package - so the car was $23,286 by itself.
If you look down the road, there is about $2k per year difference in value in a few years. Just check here on Edmunds for 2001,2000,1999 Accords and it should come up around $2k difference per year.
This is both in trade in and private party values. So if all you are saving now is 2k, then when you go to sell or trade it that is about all you will lose on the other end. As you mentioned, the 04 will have fewer than normal miles on it so the difference may be less than $2k in value.
About the only way this would be really bad is that:
It may not qualify for new car rates - so actually costs more to buy than just the difference in the prices.
If something happens right away - it needs to be traded in or is totalled or stolen the more the > one year old "used" car value will be upside down to the loan.
But if kept for several years then you will get less when you get rid of it, but paid less when you got it.
I would wonder how they had been unable to sell this car for so long, though...
Good points.... I signed contract, but nothing financial yet. I didn't think that 04 with 5 miles does not qualifies as "new" and I might not get 3.9 APR..... can I still get out of it if I am not happy with financing? and thank you so much for all the info. kate
I just went to www.kbb.com (kelley bluebook) and ran the numbers for the same car. Accord ex 4 w/auto in good condition. The results are: 75000 miles 1999 2000 7305 8020 or a difference of 715. That is because the 1999 would have 15000 less miles on it that a normal 1999. If you get a couple of thousand off because it is a 2004 you are ahead about $1,300.
Again this is with BOTH cars having 75000 miles at trade in. They have been owned the same amount of months and driven the same amount of miles.
It depends on the bank. My checking account bank (I never use them for loans any more) says that after September or October that left-overs get used car loans. So you get a higher rate and "we will only loan $x on that" stuff.
I don't think Capital 1 cares, and they are doing 4.49 % (36 months) 5.25 % (60 mo) 5.95 (72 mo). If the dealer can't do better, then you can apply online and get approval is just a few minutes. They will mail you a check for free, or you can pay (maybe $10?) for overnight.
I don't know, it depends on how the contract is worded. Also if they have the new car and you still have your trade (if any) then the deal is not yet "done".
Not saying it going to happen, but it is a typical scuzzy dealer trick to get someone in a new car with a nice price - then at the end "discover" that the financing didn't go through or it did, but a lot higher rate. That is why you always get pre-approved from someone before going in (bank, credit union, Capitalone, etc). Then you make your deal for the car and if they can't give you a better deal, use your financing. If they can, then you can go for it - but if anything goes "wrong" later just use your own financing.
As I said, if you save > $2,000 now then the most it could cost you several years down the road is $2,000 or less. So other than the early loss problem, I don't see any reason NOT to go for the deal. Assuming new car financing, etc.
Now if there are lot of differences between model years, the newer car would normally have a larger spread of value just because it is more desirable. But other than the tail lights, what else changed for 05? A new coin pocket? lighted steering wheel controls (this would be nice) ? They added side and head airbags to the DX, but this EX V-6 should already have them. None of that would add up to enough to make someone de-value the 04 down the road.
Might be a good idea to ask your insurance agent as well - just alert them that this is a left-over new car and ask if there is any way to protect against a problem.
One thing you can do with most companies is request a replacement car. Instead of them giving you $xxxx book value they should find a replacement vehicle - same car, similar miles.
I work for citibank - already got 4.5 for new car and 5% for used from them and I think 5.25% from capital one. I guess I am just trying to convince myself that I am really getting a good deal :-).
After reading the quotes that you are all getting, it is expensive to buy a Honda in the state of Colorado and in the states next to us. I can get the Honda Accord LX for $2300 +/1 less if I get it through Carsdirect.com using a SF zip code than if I use a Denver zip. I have relatives in SF. I could fly there to check it out and have it shipped back and still save over $1300 or drive back and save even more. To get a LX 4 dr AT is around $19,880 in Denver using carsdirect and it would be around $17,500 from SF. I wonder if it is legal? I could probably get away with it if I did not have to finance it through Honda w/ the 1.9%.
An 05 sedan V-6 EX with NAV and auto would have an invoice of $26,470 and a hold back of $880. If you take away the full $750 dealer incentive that means the dealer would make $0 at $24,840. Then you add in the dealer doc fee, whatever that is.
An 05 coupe V-6 EX with NAV and auto would invoice for $26,560 and a hold back of $884. So with the incentive you are looking at $24,926 where the dealer makes $0 + the doc fee.
You said you paid (or will pay) $23,000 including the dealer fee.
So if the fee is $200 then you are getting yours for $2,040 - $2,126 less than that it would cost you for an 05 sedan/coupe IF YOU COULD GET IT AT COST. You your actual difference would be higher by a few hundred dollars.
So it sounds like a no-brainer as long as:
This is how you want your car equipped and this is the model/style you want and this is the color you want. It is tempting to take a super deal just because it is a good deal, but if you are not going to use the NAV system or really wanted a different color, then maybe this is not the right car.....
I don't think there is anything illegal to it, it is just that in some markets competition is tougher and there are some dealers willing to sell for less.
If I put in my ZIP code no good deals come up on Accords. But if I used the Atlanta ZIP code the price is a lot cheaper. No reason (legal) I can't contact that dealer and buy their car. Now, carsdirect probably tries to protect its local to you dealers, but once you are in contact with the actual dealer you (and they) will not care where you really live.
The only issues may come up due to tax or title, since a SF dealer not know how to do it in CO or have anyone to do it form them. In some states (FL?) there is an extra "Tax" due if you bring a new car in from out of state and register it. This is set up to protect the FL dealers, but I don't recall it being that much extra.
You could search markets closer to home and try to find a similar deal - or check out he SF area Honda dealers directly via their web page and see who is dealing. Also look here for folks there getting deals and go to them direct.
It's a coupe, auto. When I saw it (it is silver with black interior) I loved it and I had no idea that it is 2004 model till they told me. It is everything that I was looking for - color, navigation system, leather and V6, so I am definitely not making any sacrifices from what I want - since it is what I want. here are my final numbers 23,000 including fuel charge (10$ :-)), 199 preparation what ever that means, 520 destination charge, 45 for application and so on. + 8.6 sale tax (NY) about 2K + 120 for registration and plate transfer. Please tell me that it is an amazing deal and I'll be very happy :-)
I figure if you got the same car as an 05 it would be:
An 05 coupe V-6 EX with NAV and auto would invoice for $26,560 and a hold back of $884. So with the incentive you are looking at $24,926 where the dealer makes $0 + the doc fee
So if you got it at dealer cost with the $750 incentive and all the hold back it would be $24,926 then add in the $255 or so of other fees (this already has destination in it) and you would get $25,181. So you are getting the car just like you want and saving $2,181 doing it. I don't see how you can go wrong. You also save 8.6% tax on the $2,181 which is another $187.57 saved for a total of $2,368.57 VS an 05.
With no miles (you said it had almost no miles, right?), never-titled, and just about no differences from the 05 I would take the 04 and save the money - easy choice.
You said you work for the bank so are bringing your own financing, so why are they charging you an "application fee" of $45? I would not let that stop the deal, but if you do your own financing then they should not need to run a credit check on your and should give you back the $45 "in theory".
They are not charging me for "application fees", it is just one of the things they put on the contract when you ready to sign and what are your choices - walk away for $45? :-) I didn't want to worry about things like that and told them 23 flat and I don't want to see anything on the contract but 23 + DMV + taxes - if I see even $5 extra, I am walking away :-). it has 5 miles on it and I run carfax just in case and there is nothing... I am picking it up tomorrow if dealership doesn't come up with something..... :-)
I was going to suggest CarFax, you don't need an account just plug in the VIN and it should show: 0 records
Something else you can do, get an account at Honda OwnerLink if you don't already have one. Then plug in the VIN number under "add vehicle" and make sure it comes up as silver EX V-6 /NAV, etc.
Dealer holdback is a percentage of either the MSRP or invoice price of a new vehicle (depending on the manufacturer) that is repaid to the dealer by the manufacturer. The holdback is designed to supplement the dealer's cash flow and indirectly reduce "variable sales expenses" (code words for sales commissions) by artificially elevating the dealership's paper cost.
Any time you bargain the dealer below invoice less incentives you are into the holdback (meaning you are getting some of the dealer's holdback money) you have a great deal. Most dealers will not give up any holdback to a customer, but high volume dealers seem to do this routinely.
Holdback is a form of incentive given to the dealers by the manufacturer for every car they sell to help offsite dealer cost - i.e. floorplan - money dealer borrowed from the bank to buy the car from the manufacturer etc.
The longer the car sits on the dealer lot, the less holdback the dealer gets when the car is sold. Honda holback is 3% of the MSRP.
I want to thank you both for the tips. I saw Boch was #1 for February and apparently, they want to keep that status ;-)
Because the Edmunds forums buries good posts quickly due to the format, you can pick up multiple FE tips and tricks from Hybrid forums of various types. A google search using the terms “Driving w/ load”, “Coasting techniques”, “Ball in the bowl”, “Rabbit timing”, “Traffic buffer”, “Driving without brakes”, “Traffic side draft”, “Kinetic for potential and back”, and “Forced autostop” would lead you to some pretty good articles ...
Good Luck and thank you all for helping me find the Accord I wanted for a price I was willing to pay :-D
Safetied: All the safety and certification stuff is done.
Yeah, they are definitely hassling us. The issue was that the car that they showed us we didn't get to drive. The one that they got was supposed to be an exact match to which we agreed contingent upon us checking it out. We asked the salesman if we could put a clause in the contract allowing us to look at it and then walk if we didn't like it. He called over a manager who said sure and they put the "subject to viewing vehicle" clause in there. All the paperwork is signed by "Al" and they say that they have to have a different manager unwind it for us. Yes, I admit that we shouldn't have signed BUT that we asked for the poison pill clause in the event that we did not like the car. We really just didn't like the car as well as we didn't like how we were treated. Customer service? NOT! They called and said "your car is ready for you" and we went and looked. The car had coffee stains all around the console and there was quite a bit of dirty on the inside of the cabin. There was an odor of cigarettes to which my wife strongly objects. They say it is because of the close proximity of the outside ashtrays. Smart move trying to sell it! We can find no reason to take the car due to 1) We asked for a clause allowing us to walk away if we didn't like it 2) The car was very much NOT ready for us to take had we liked it a) coffee stains b) dirty carpets c) hard scratches in some of the windows d) cigarette odor (oh, we can put some car freshener in there) e) They claim that it has been detailed twice which it is obvious that they didn't f) they seem very much more interested in keeping the sale than keeping the customer 3) I really did not care for the transmission of either car (call me a snob or whatever) 4) The salesman and his cohorts have done everything to confuse the issue a) Offered us a brand new matching car for the same price which we turned down b) Wouldn't "unwind" the deal quoting different reasons c) Would not give us a business card for us to contact nor of the manager that we have to see later 5) Service has been absolutely atrocious.
So, we don't like the car after seeing it. We want out according to the clause that they put in at our request. We came, we saw, we didn't like, deal closed. What's the beef?
yep :-), picking up tonight. Unless there is something I should know about it? :-) Did my Civic inspection today - granted I love this car and took best care of it - $1,480 in damages, honda finance picks up 1.5K - so I am good. But I am curios if inspectors get something from getting high damage numbers. My car is blue - of course you'll see every singe scratch on it.... weird....
Thanks for providing a wealth of info on this forum - just great.
Would you pls. recap your research and purchase of your new Accord from Boch in Boston? I live in NJ but it sounds like its worth a trip to Beantown. Obviously it was for you as you had a much longer trip (you live in the Midwest, right)?
I bought a new Honda there yesterday, and I just thought it was weird that they were still trying to sell it even though you said you signed papers for it. I had actually gone in because I was interested in it, and they were doing their best to get me to consider it -- even though I had overheard one of the salesman say to another that it was sold (although I didn't know until I read this thread that you were the buyer). And while I was there, I heard them hawking it to a couple of people, how they had to get it and the other leftover 2004 off the lot. Maybe they thought if they could get someone to pay the quoted price, they'd give you some song and dance about why you couldn't have it.
For about $24,800 (obviously, YMMV, because they play around with numbers so much), you could have bought it new and gotten the 1.9% financing. I realize even that's not a smoking hot deal for the Accord EX-V6 w/ nav, but I didn't feel totally ripped off.
wow that is weird... he did show me an contract from someone who bought same car few weeks ago for 24K, so I guess they were trying to sell it for more than 23K that I agreed to pay. Oh well, if not, I would get a new one, not a big deal :-) Can you please give me details for your buy? is it $24.800 including or excluding destination and everything else they want to charge you for? I wouldn't get it 1.9 financing since I want to do it for 60 month.
I don't see how the $24,800 is the right number for the 05 EX V-6 AT NAV coupe. I rechecked and if you take the invoice - 3% - $750 you get $25,013.20 . So if they did $24,800 for the same car as an 05 they must have added a bunch of stuff onto the deal or hosed the trade in.
That price included destination, and only tax and registration need to be added. Yeah, they hosed me on the trade-in, but then, isn't that always the way? Either base price and trade-in are higher or base price and trade-in are lower. It's the nature of it. Open Road (Edison, NJ) Honda's Internet quote was $24,478, but I'm not sure if that included destination or not, nor do I know how they would have played with the trade-in value.
You can crunch the numbers you find on the Web all you want, but there's really no rhyme or reason to the price someone gets. Maybe the salesperson needs one more car to get the Super Awesome Honda Salesperson of the Year Award and is willing to take a loss to get it. Maybe she's been told she'll be canned if she doesn't sell a car that week. Maybe he just can't add. Who knows?
It's like flying. Some people pay top dollar because they don't know any better. Some people get a good online deal. And some people are practically flying for free and they won't tell you how they did it. This is my second new car, although I've helped friends and family when they go (doing the whole good cop, bad cop routine), and I still have no clue. Just look at the wide range of prices on this thread. I think someone did better than that price on the EX-V6 w/ nav.
I hope you have good luck with the car. I didn't get a good vibe about that one, though. A leftover so late in the year that they're trying to sell even after it's been sold? I mean, I guess you could write it off as "typical" sleazy sales behavior, but I'm not really familiar with the inner workings of the car-sales industry. Let us know how it goes.
Are you one of the people who fly for free? I pay way too much money for flying lessons :-). Anyway, I am going there tonight - if I feel that anything is fishy, I'll cancel the deal, but I just don't think that there can be anything wrong with the car that has 5 miles on it, and I did check carfax, it was not sold to anyone before... So, I hope I'll be fine. I do have to do my homework on line - girls don't get the best prices, I get treated like an idiot - oh, look at this car - it is sooooo cute :-). Enjoy your new car and I will let you know how my deal went. And btw - your deal sounds great. I also got 24,495 but that was without destination and some other fees. If you add everything up, 24,800 is a great price.
Comments
--EP-R5 17" Alloy Wheels (yeah these are some nice wheels; also found on the Acura TSX, and also known as Silverstar Wheels or something like that)
--Wheel Locks
--Rear-Wing Spoiler
--Splash Guards
I already checked at the Hondacars.com site and here at edmunds, but what do you think approximately the price of the car would be?
How do the make up the $2000 difference? What should I be suspect of?
The dealer advertises a similar deal almost weekly. I beleive the price includes destination. Dealer is one of the largest in US.
Thanks for your feedback.
I always thought that they have the LOWEST price but that is not true until you shop around. I almost went to them again for the Honda Accord until I found a better deal in town. It was $900 less than carsdirect.com
In my case, even though the car was selling for $1,300 under invoice, I didn't think it was enough for a one year old car. Just remember, once you drive it off the lot, it is only worth book value. But if you like the car and plan to keep it a long time, that may not matter. Unless, God forbid, you have an accident and the car is "totaled."
No free options promised or implied
No free work promised or impled
No free loaner cars
All sales are final
Subject to viewing vehicle. All the contract is signed by the Finance Manager.
So, we went and looked at the car, didn't like it and want to walk away. They said that we have to come back on Wednesday and have it "unwound" by the General Sales Manager. So, the test drive stuff and signing happened Saturday. The viewing and decision that we didn't like the car happened today (Monday). Are they fishing? Can we walk away? We are in Washington State. :confuse:
Advice is appreciated. Why won't they just let us walk? What should we do?
What does "safetied" mean.
Why would you buy a car if you hadn't driven a sample? Some people say to buy a specific car you've driven first but, speaking for myself, the last 2 cars I bought ('91 Mazda Protegé and '04 Accord EX-L sedan) were dealer exchanges to get the color I wanted in each case.
So I didn't test drive the actual cars I bought, but did drive similar ones to be sure that I was comfortable in them and that they drove according to my expectations.
Both cars were excellent--the Mazda was a superb car for over 12 years, and the '04 Accord is outstanding in every way.
Any new Accord is a great car with manual or A/T--you won't find a better car.
So, what's the problem?.............RIchard
In other words, don't just buy a car because you got a great deal. Buy the car you really want. If the V6 with Nav. is the car, then this may be a good deal - if it's also the color you like.
Good Luck.
Glad to hear you had no issues with Boch. Did you notice they are the # 1 Honda dealer, in units sold, (as they put it) "in the planet" for the month of February?....
Wow, your FE is unbelievable. That's great....I'm only (haha) getting 34 - 35 mpg on my PZEV, I4, Auto...no complaints here.
Good luck with the car.
Jim
Congrats on your new EX-L. Your MPG performance is one of the best I've seen in an I-4 EX-L. Can you share with us your driving techniques to achieve this kind of performance? Perhaps a new MPG Techniques topic on this web site would be in order?
Bob
Just got an EX-V6 at Schaumburg 10 days ago and got a great deal.
No matter what they will not give you a fair price unless you bargain with them and do your homework before you get there. Schaumburg told me $26,200 plus options and destination (would have been $27,114) and then plus profit, but they were willing to talk because they knew I had bene shopping around and was ready to buy. After some bargaining I got it for $24,200 including destination and options package. Invoice was actually $24,028 plus destination and without the $400 options package ($24,942). Intellichoice has the lowest published Invoice prices and they explain how dealer holdback works. No matter what, you will have to pay a destination charge on an '05 so keep that in mind as well.
Other than that, if you want a fair price be willing to get up and walk out, it's the best and the easiest bargaining tool on the planet.
Good Luck! :shades:
I consistantly found that you can work deals around $400 - $600 better than Carsdirect. This made sense to me since you are skipping the middleman (Carsdirect) and dealers are dealing to you the fee they would have been paying Carsdirect. I found this true with each of the cars I shopped.
Since Edmund's TMV is average selling price, the prices I negotiated were significantly better than the price they posted. Again, this made sense since TMV is not the best price, but the average selling price.
I started with Carsdirect, pushed the local dealers for their best quotes, and then when they put the ball in my court went with an offer of Carsdirect less $1,000 (considering current incentives and holdback) and no additional dealer fees. Typically, the dealer waived their fee and reduced their price to about Carsdirect less $500. Good luck!
I'd like to know how good of a deal this is on a 2005 Accord EX V6 Sedan:
23,500 + Dest.
+ 249.70 DMV Fee
+ 199 Doc Fee
+7.50 Tire Fee
+ 6% Sales Tax
Thanks
Hybrid Tips: Optimizing mileage
AND
Hybrid Gas Mileage: Good? Bad? As Expected?
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I use their prices all the time as a benchmark, but always manage to find a similar deal direct - so far. Keep in mind the carsdirect is a service and charges for it - so the dealer that gets the sale pays them a fee. Obviously, if you can find the dealer posting the price and cut out carsdirect you might get an even better deal. But I don't know if that would be worth the effort for most folks - if they give a super deal and take care of you then it is still a good deal.
I have talked to folks who went through those Sam's/Costco plans and they also reported mixed results. I think it just depends on what you are looking for and your area.
My "program" is that you find out the invoice (dealer cost) of the car, any rebates or incentives on it (including those to the dealer) and figure the hold back. The resulting number (invoice - rebates - incentives - hold back) is the bottom line dealer makes no money price. Low volume dealers guard the hold back like a sacred shrine and might deal down close to invoice - rebates/incentives but they keep 100% of the hold back for themselves. High volume dealers seem to routinely quote down into the hold back. If you see that carsdirect can sell a car too cheap, then there is some missing money you don't know about (like the up to $750 current Accord incentive)
Dealer fees vary widely, so when requesting a quote get it for the car w/destination and all dealer fees. Compare this number VS true bottom of the line dealer cost. If you are into the hold back then (unless you missed a dealer incentive) you are getting a good deal.
Get your financing pre-arrange before you start, if the dealer can't beat it (with a simple interest, no setup fee loan) then use your own. On a lease, get the captive lease money factor and calculate your own payments - and also check 3rd party lease brokers for their numbers.
If you know the true bottom line cost and the true bottom line finance numbers, then you can put most of the worry behind you - you will know when you are getting a good deal. Will some other plan/service/method save you a couple hundred more? Maybe.
Dennis
As I posted, $18,200 in Louisville and $18,037 in Atlanta are the two best numbers I have seen THIS MONTH - both of these prices include the I4 LX w/AT and destination and dealer fees. Someone posted last month that Shreveport was doing $18,000 for the car (I think this included dealer fees).
From what I have read the only other thing would be the dealer "doc" fee and I would think that would be disclosed long before you have to sign any paperwork.
Like always, get pre-approved at your bank or credit union (or Capital 1 online) before going to the dealer. Then you have a nice, low, simple interest loan to buy the car and you can resist any pressure for dealer financing - unless they can do better.
Dennis
Dennis
Otherwise, it could be a "demo" car with 5k miles on it or something.
Could be a take-back - someone purchased and their financing didn't go through so they took it back (but it was never titled, so technically "new").
Or just the nailed to the floor. No air, manual tranny, in some unpopular color. They steer anyone that comes in to something with A/C or auto or different color. You would have to twist their arm to make them sell you this car.
Or just the one car, and "we sold it yesterday" when you call.
Dennis
I too don't know what "safetied" is and why you could not drive the car.
If the car was not ready for you to drive, inspect, and purchase why did you sign all the paperwork? Why not just come back when it WAS ready and drive it and look it over, then sign ?
So when you went back what was wrong with the car that made you walk away? The wrong color? Too many miles? You just changed your mind? Your "we owe" didn't even give you the right to drive the car, just to view it - so I still can't understand why you would sign sign a thing.
Maybe it was just buyer's remorse?
In any case, if the "we owe" says subject to viewing - you didn't and told them to keep it. The dealer should un-wind the deal without any hassles to you (but may not).
Dennis
To answer your question.. Yes!!!! :P
This is both in trade in and private party values. So if all you are saving now is 2k, then when you go to sell or trade it that is about all you will lose on the other end. As you mentioned, the 04 will have fewer than normal miles on it so the difference may be less than $2k in value.
About the only way this would be really bad is that:
It may not qualify for new car rates - so actually costs more to buy than just the difference in the prices.
If something happens right away - it needs to be traded in or is totalled or stolen the more the > one year old "used" car value will be upside down to the loan.
But if kept for several years then you will get less when you get rid of it, but paid less when you got it.
I would wonder how they had been unable to sell this car for so long, though...
Dennis
kate
75000 miles 1999 2000
7305 8020
or a difference of 715.
That is because the 1999 would have 15000 less miles on it that a normal 1999. If you get a couple of thousand off because it is a 2004 you are ahead about $1,300.
Again this is with BOTH cars having 75000 miles at trade in. They have been owned the same amount of months and driven the same amount of miles.
I don't think Capital 1 cares, and they are doing 4.49 % (36 months) 5.25 % (60 mo) 5.95 (72 mo). If the dealer can't do better, then you can apply online and get approval is just a few minutes. They will mail you a check for free, or you can pay (maybe $10?) for overnight.
http://www.capitaloneautofinance.com
I don't know, it depends on how the contract is worded. Also if they have the new car and you still have your trade (if any) then the deal is not yet "done".
Not saying it going to happen, but it is a typical scuzzy dealer trick to get someone in a new car with a nice price - then at the end "discover" that the financing didn't go through or it did, but a lot higher rate. That is why you always get pre-approved from someone before going in (bank, credit union, Capitalone, etc). Then you make your deal for the car and if they can't give you a better deal, use your financing. If they can, then you can go for it - but if anything goes "wrong" later just use your own financing.
Dennis
As I said, if you save > $2,000 now then the most it could cost you several years down the road is $2,000 or less. So other than the early loss problem, I don't see any reason NOT to go for the deal. Assuming new car financing, etc.
Now if there are lot of differences between model years, the newer car would normally have a larger spread of value just because it is more desirable. But other than the tail lights, what else changed for 05? A new coin pocket? lighted steering wheel controls (this would be nice) ? They added side and head airbags to the DX, but this EX V-6 should already have them. None of that would add up to enough to make someone de-value the 04 down the road.
Might be a good idea to ask your insurance agent as well - just alert them that this is a left-over new car and ask if there is any way to protect against a problem.
One thing you can do with most companies is request a replacement car. Instead of them giving you $xxxx book value they should find a replacement vehicle - same car, similar miles.
Dennis
Is this a sedan or coupe?
Auto or manual (if sedan is has to be auto) ?
An 05 sedan V-6 EX with NAV and auto would have an invoice of $26,470 and a hold back of $880. If you take away the full $750 dealer incentive that means the dealer would make $0 at $24,840. Then you add in the dealer doc fee, whatever that is.
An 05 coupe V-6 EX with NAV and auto would invoice for $26,560 and a hold back of $884. So with the incentive you are looking at $24,926 where the dealer makes $0 + the doc fee.
You said you paid (or will pay) $23,000 including the dealer fee.
So if the fee is $200 then you are getting yours for $2,040 - $2,126 less than that it would cost you for an 05 sedan/coupe IF YOU COULD GET IT AT COST. You your actual difference would be higher by a few hundred dollars.
So it sounds like a no-brainer as long as:
This is how you want your car equipped and this is the model/style you want and this is the color you want. It is tempting to take a super deal just because it is a good deal, but if you are not going to use the NAV system or really wanted a different color, then maybe this is not the right car.....
Dennis
If I put in my ZIP code no good deals come up on Accords. But if I used the Atlanta ZIP code the price is a lot cheaper. No reason (legal) I can't contact that dealer and buy their car. Now, carsdirect probably tries to protect its local to you dealers, but once you are in contact with the actual dealer you (and they) will not care where you really live.
The only issues may come up due to tax or title, since a SF dealer not know how to do it in CO or have anyone to do it form them. In some states (FL?) there is an extra "Tax" due if you bring a new car in from out of state and register it. This is set up to protect the FL dealers, but I don't recall it being that much extra.
You could search markets closer to home and try to find a similar deal - or check out he SF area Honda dealers directly via their web page and see who is dealing. Also look here for folks there getting deals and go to them direct.
Dennis
here are my final numbers
23,000 including fuel charge (10$ :-)), 199 preparation what ever that means, 520 destination charge, 45 for application and so on.
+ 8.6 sale tax (NY) about 2K
+ 120 for registration and plate transfer.
Please tell me that it is an amazing deal and I'll be very happy :-)
An 05 coupe V-6 EX with NAV and auto would invoice for $26,560 and a hold back of $884. So with the incentive you are looking at $24,926 where the dealer makes $0 + the doc fee
So if you got it at dealer cost with the $750 incentive and all the hold back it would be $24,926 then add in the $255 or so of other fees (this already has destination in it) and you would get $25,181. So you are getting the car just like you want and saving $2,181 doing it. I don't see how you can go wrong. You also save 8.6% tax on the $2,181 which is another $187.57 saved for a total of $2,368.57 VS an 05.
With no miles (you said it had almost no miles, right?), never-titled, and just about no differences from the 05 I would take the 04 and save the money - easy choice.
You said you work for the bank so are bringing your own financing, so why are they charging you an "application fee" of $45? I would not let that stop the deal, but if you do your own financing then they should not need to run a credit check on your and should give you back the $45 "in theory".
I don't know what you are waiting for
Dennis
I didn't want to worry about things like that and told them 23 flat and I don't want to see anything on the contract but 23 + DMV + taxes - if I see even $5 extra, I am walking away :-).
it has 5 miles on it and I run carfax just in case and there is nothing...
I am picking it up tomorrow if dealership doesn't come up with something..... :-)
I was going to suggest CarFax, you don't need an account just plug in the VIN and it should show: 0 records
Something else you can do, get an account at Honda OwnerLink if you don't already have one. Then plug in the VIN number under "add vehicle" and make sure it comes up as silver EX V-6 /NAV, etc.
Sounds good, go get it!
Dennis
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/
In a nutshell:
Dealer holdback is a percentage of either the MSRP or invoice price of a new vehicle (depending on the manufacturer) that is repaid to the dealer by the manufacturer. The holdback is designed to supplement the dealer's cash flow and indirectly reduce "variable sales expenses" (code words for sales commissions) by artificially elevating the dealership's paper cost.
Any time you bargain the dealer below invoice less incentives you are into the holdback (meaning you are getting some of the dealer's holdback money) you have a great deal. Most dealers will not give up any holdback to a customer, but high volume dealers seem to do this routinely.
Dennis
The longer the car sits on the dealer lot, the less holdback the dealer gets when the car is sold. Honda holback is 3% of the MSRP.
Good Luck
I want to thank you both for the tips. I saw Boch was #1 for February and apparently, they want to keep that status ;-)
Because the Edmunds forums buries good posts quickly due to the format, you can pick up multiple FE tips and tricks from Hybrid forums of various types. A google search using the terms “Driving w/ load”, “Coasting techniques”, “Ball in the bowl”, “Rabbit timing”, “Traffic buffer”, “Driving without brakes”, “Traffic side draft”, “Kinetic for potential and back”, and “Forced autostop” would lead you to some pretty good articles ...
Good Luck and thank you all for helping me find the Accord I wanted for a price I was willing to pay :-D
Wayne R. Gerdes
Yeah, they are definitely hassling us. The issue was that the car that they showed us we didn't get to drive. The one that they got was supposed to be an exact match to which we agreed contingent upon us checking it out. We asked the salesman if we could put a clause in the contract allowing us to look at it and then walk if we didn't like it. He called over a manager who said sure and they put the "subject to viewing vehicle" clause in there. All the paperwork is signed by "Al" and they say that they have to have a different manager unwind it for us. Yes, I admit that we shouldn't have signed BUT that we asked for the poison pill clause in the event that we did not like the car. We really just didn't like the car as well as we didn't like how we were treated. Customer service? NOT! They called and said "your car is ready for you" and we went and looked. The car had coffee stains all around the console and there was quite a bit of dirty on the inside of the cabin. There was an odor of cigarettes to which my wife strongly objects. They say it is because of the close proximity of the outside ashtrays. Smart move trying to sell it! We can find no reason to take the car due to
1) We asked for a clause allowing us to walk away if we didn't like it
2) The car was very much NOT ready for us to take had we liked it
a) coffee stains
b) dirty carpets
c) hard scratches in some of the windows
d) cigarette odor (oh, we can put some car freshener in there)
e) They claim that it has been detailed twice which it is obvious that they didn't
f) they seem very much more interested in keeping the sale than keeping the customer
3) I really did not care for the transmission of either car (call me a snob or whatever)
4) The salesman and his cohorts have done everything to confuse the issue
a) Offered us a brand new matching car for the same price which we turned down
b) Wouldn't "unwind" the deal quoting different reasons
c) Would not give us a business card for us to contact nor of the manager that we have to see later
5) Service has been absolutely atrocious.
So, we don't like the car after seeing it. We want out according to the clause that they put in at our request. We came, we saw, we didn't like, deal closed. What's the beef?
Did my Civic inspection today - granted I love this car and took best care of it - $1,480 in damages, honda finance picks up 1.5K - so I am good. But I am curios if inspectors get something from getting high damage numbers. My car is blue - of course you'll see every singe scratch on it.... weird....
Thanks for providing a wealth of info on this forum - just great.
Would you pls. recap your research and purchase of your new Accord from Boch in Boston? I live in NJ but it sounds like its worth a trip to Beantown. Obviously it was for you as you had a much longer trip (you live in the Midwest, right)?
Thanks, John
For about $24,800 (obviously, YMMV, because they play around with numbers so much), you could have bought it new and gotten the 1.9% financing. I realize even that's not a smoking hot deal for the Accord EX-V6 w/ nav, but I didn't feel totally ripped off.
Can you please give me details for your buy? is it $24.800 including or excluding destination and everything else they want to charge you for? I wouldn't get it 1.9 financing since I want to do it for 60 month.
Dennis
You can crunch the numbers you find on the Web all you want, but there's really no rhyme or reason to the price someone gets. Maybe the salesperson needs one more car to get the Super Awesome Honda Salesperson of the Year Award and is willing to take a loss to get it. Maybe she's been told she'll be canned if she doesn't sell a car that week. Maybe he just can't add. Who knows?
It's like flying. Some people pay top dollar because they don't know any better. Some people get a good online deal. And some people are practically flying for free and they won't tell you how they did it. This is my second new car, although I've helped friends and family when they go (doing the whole good cop, bad cop routine), and I still have no clue. Just look at the wide range of prices on this thread. I think someone did better than that price on the EX-V6 w/ nav.
Anyway, I am going there tonight - if I feel that anything is fishy, I'll cancel the deal, but I just don't think that there can be anything wrong with the car that has 5 miles on it, and I did check carfax, it was not sold to anyone before... So, I hope I'll be fine. I do have to do my homework on line - girls don't get the best prices, I get treated like an idiot - oh, look at this car - it is sooooo cute :-).
Enjoy your new car and I will let you know how my deal went.
And btw - your deal sounds great. I also got 24,495 but that was without destination and some other fees. If you add everything up, 24,800 is a great price.