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Comments
Catch us on a very slow day and sometimes we will "buy a log".
After about the last 2-3 months of going to MANY car dealerships I found 2 dealers out of 30 or 40 that I could honestly say were upfront and honest dealers. The rest are so full of it and lie right off the bat. I actually had a salesman tell me that he "has never looked at an invoice in 15 years" when I asked him what the invoice on the car was. What a joke.
Honest dealers are the rare exception in this business. The vast majority feed off of the idiots that walk in off the street and want to buy a car without doing any research or experience. These people get taken for thousands of dollars and the dealer and salesman know exactly how to prey on these people to make thier money.
Salesman are there to make money, period. They will do whatever they can to do it. The vast majority of them are shady and uneducated to boot. They use intimidation openly and bully people.
I am not trying to be over the top, but I am just frustrated and dissapointed that the industry operates this way.
I will say it was a plesant suprise when I finally found a dealer that was upfront and honest (Schlossmann Honda in Greenville, WI).
You can hear from Isell and others about the negative experiences they have had with shady buyers, of which there are plenty. Some people are rude and dishonest when they buy a car.
If you treat your salesperson as a human being as as a professional, even while trying to get the best price, I think you often come out ahead. I do try to get the price arranged in advance through the internet or an ad in the newspaper, but there's also a lot of luck of the draw, for both the buyer and the seller.
What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of lemons on both sides of the fence, but that shouldn't blind us to the good out there as well. Also, I think when some people treat their salespeople badly, it brings out the worst in them. They may figure that if this person's going to be a jerk to me, I'll take them for what they're worth. Whereas if you treat the salesperson with respect, and enjoy together the fun that comes with getting one of the best toys in the world--a new car--you can have fun and save money at the same time. Perhaps that's a silly attitude, and it's certainly one that doesn't always work, but most of the time it's worked for me.
I respect your post and agree that there are good salespeople out there. I am just saying, from my experience, I have been treated like total crap.
It would be one thing if it was just 1 or 2 dealers. It is more like 30 dealers bad and literally 2 good ones. I am a very easy person to get along with and treat the salesman with the utmost respect.
I will say this, I think it has a lot to do with age. I am 26 and I think that is a disadvantage. I was out to eat with my parents and we did an experiment. I had been getting treated like crap from the get go with salesmen. I walked in by myself and what do you think happened? They treated me like crap and didn't take me seriously. Then my parents walked in and they kissed up so much it was disgusting.
I don't mean to be negative, but when has been so one sided it is a little hard not to be.
I agree with you. I am 25 years old and have had the same problems. Even though most of my negotiating has been over the phone, I have been told that I sound young and I know that this works against me.
I don't think they (older car salesmen) like younger people being educated about the car they are buying.
In my post above about Sam Swope Honda, I didn't really start getting treated disrespectfully until I filled out a credit application. It was at that point that he knew my age. Now, I am convinced that he wanted me to fill out the credit application in order to determine who he was dealing with.
I think my best chances in the future will be to deal with a young salesman or a female. I guess I will just have to visit the dealerships instead of using the telephone.
I would do whatever it took to maximize my profits. I would also be competitive. I would strive for long term, satistfied customers who would send me business.
Most salespeople do not look at invoices. Why should they? Are you saying that if a customer walks in, sees what they want and pay MSRP that they got "taken"?
Not everyone is an "invoice buyer". Would you bring up dealer cost if you were buying a washer and dryer?
I am there to make money. Something wrong with that?. I've also been there for 10 years and at this point, probably half of my business comes from repeat and referral customers.
But, you are correct...there are a LOT of sleazy stores and sleazy salesmen out there. go to So. California some time and walk into a store.
I do think this is slowly changing but it does exist.
As far as education...I think you might be surprised at the level of education and backgrounds some of the people in our store have.
There is a HUGE difference between maximizing profits and taking advantage of people. We aren't talking about making a few extra pennies on a pack of gum. This is a car, something that costs thousands and thousands of dollars and significantly impacts peoples lives. Dealers take advantage of people that are in a bad situation or don't know any better.
If a person comes in and OFFERS to pay MSRP then more power to you. The problem is car dealers don't do that, they tell people who are ignorant that that is the price, take it or leave it You and I both know all the games that go on in the back office to add fee after fee that is unnecessary. Ever hear of the old $499 "dealer prep" fee? BS, pure and simple. It is an extra $499 for doing nothing.
How can you sit there and tell me salespeople do not look at invoices?? How in the world would they know how much they can sell the car for? Do they just pick a magic number out of the air??
I also hate the old line of "would you ask the invoice of a cheeseburger or a washer?" Well, I can tell you this, I have never seen walked into Best Buy and had them tell me that I need to pay $100 over MSRP for a Whirlpool Dryer just because it is the latest model. If you look, everything from DVD's to Pillows have a MSRP listed from the manufacturer but almost every store sells those items below MSRP.
There is nothing wrong with you making money as a dealer, but making that money by taking advantage of some single mother with less than perfect credit or by lying and bullying is wrong.
What others think abot it?
Sure, if he is experience he may have a range to work in (trying to maximize the price within the range), but he really doesn't have to have all the invoices memorized.
The f&I stuff is also in the back office, usually after you are done with the salesperson.
Anyway, my point is that many people (not neccesarily you from rereading your post) attribute too much to the salesperson that really belongs to the dealer, if anywhere.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Your deal on the '06 is far better IMO.
A good deal on an '06 this early in the model year would be about
$300 over invoice or about 91% of the MSRP.
Any document fees (they go to the dealer and are profit) should be no more than
$50 or the excess over that amount negotiated away in your deal........Richard
Yeap... It's LX Automatic. The dealership is John Holtz Honda in Rochester, NY. I had a good experience. The sales person was very nice.
Education? My certified Honda mechanic has a graduate degree in English. The sales manager at the same dealership has a graduate degree in Finance. The sales staff level of education varies from high school dropout, to graduate level. What's the point? They're all competent and honest.
Single Mother Issue: What does this issue have to do with economic pricing? Is this a politically correct category for profiling?
isellhondas: You're still stirring the gumbo pot with these folks. Be nice, but hang tuff. Question: Am I being taken advantage of in a sad way if I pay $7,500 for a restored 1972, N-600? Please be fair and kind to me. I'm a disenfranchised and married old man. Remember, Honda of Japan reads this forum.
Depending on how you break down costs I think this was about 200-600 bucks over invoice.
I definitely left a little money on the table because they were the only dealer in the area that had the color and model I wanted. That said, I couldnt be happier with the car.
As far as the education goes, I know there are people that work for dealerships that have degrees. I never said there wasn't. It sounds like you own a dealership. I challenge you to take an inventory of every employee and thier level of education. My guess would be that 85% are high school grads or less and the other 15% have a college degree.
Car dealers do this to themselves. It is sad that the good guys that do sell cars have to suffer, but the vast majority of car dealers I have run into are exactly as I have stated before.
If a dealer prep fee was truly legitimate, you would make it a mandatory charge on every car you sell, like destination fee.
Also, you can't compare classic restored cars to new retail cars. The two have NOTHING to do with each other.
Seriously, you have to ask yourself why these dealers treat you like crap. I don't understand why any business would treat people like this, especially a business that's out on a capitalist adventure to make money. It just doesn't make sense. Regardless of the negotiation process, the dealer has a bottom price. If you don't agree with the price, then move on to another search. If you're unable to come to price terms, then make a substitution with another car make that's more in line with your pricing acceptance. It's that simple.
One can argue that the dealer preparation fee is a variable cost. The dealership does make preparations prior to and after the sale of a car. Again, it's my opinion that this is a cost associated with doing business, and it's passed on to the consumer. I have no problem with this.
Yes, you can compare the pricing of classis restored cars to new retail cars. I'll admit that I was a bit extreme with the N-600 reference, but the fact is that pricing is dependent on basic and demand and supply. For new retails cars, demand and supply clear at market equilibrium. Otherwise the price will adjust, based on excess demand or supply. Of course, you might argue that Honda dealers are in collusion for price fixing, but I doubt it. There are too many substitutes (auto manufacturers) that prevent this.
You mentioned Schlossmanns Honda of Greenfield. Hopefully, they met your price expectation to close on a deal. I purchased a 1985 Civic Wagon from Wilde Honda (Waukesha) back in March, 1985. I had to wait five weeks for its delivery from Japan (via California). The price was right from a dealership outside Milwaukee. Wilde Honda was into free-market pricing -- difficult for a city like socialist Milwaukee.
It's Brutal!
This was at Palm Harbor Honda just northwest of Tampa, Florida. Im sure we could have done a bit better but there was only silver left and we didnt want to lose it as we arent keen on gold or white.
Just FYI, I had the feeling that the honda dealer up the road (gateway honda) was in cahoots with the one we bought at. While negotiating at the second dealer the first dealer (where we eventually bought) would call us while the other salesman was talking to his boss. The second place in the end refused to meet or beat the first places price and just said, "I suggest you go buy the one down the road". They wouldnt even give us a price. Maybe, maybe not. Either way our deal was ok, not an all time great, but ok.
PT.
Ken
I do know that the deals on Accords were amazingly good last December between Xmas and New Year's Day. The final week or two of the year is dominated by small Xmas gifts, not autos. If you can wait until December, it's a sure thing you'll save a few bucks.
Note that at the end of the year (at least the last few years) Accords in the low to mid $20Ks were discounted about $1500 from what the price was at the start of the year. By March, '06, you can expect Accords to be about $750 less than they are now--this makes sense because half of the 2006 model year will be over in March, '06.
Of course, other things can affect prices and if the 2007 Toyota Camry is introduced in early '06, you can bet that Accord prices will be under pressure...........Richard
I am looking for 06 LX SE 4 cylinders too. I live in Houston and all of the dealers in my town try to sell that car for 21200 + Tax and fee. It is too much. I may have to buy a Camry about 2000 cheaper. It's a good car too. Tell me if you if you have a good deal for 06 LX SE.
JDang
Try going to costco auto website. you can find out the invoice and the prearranged costco price for your area. That way if negotiations are not going the way you like, you have something to fall back on.
Price of car = 23900.00
Doc fee+ Mesenger fee+ clerical+ comp = 199.00
sales tax = 1441.50
registration fee/new plates = 242.00
Total = 25,782.00
After the deal was over I asked the sales guy how much do people usually people pay for such cars, he mentioned there might have been $500 difference.
Did I pay a good price or should I have got more discount.
:shades:
Price of Vehicle and accesories 20047.57
Dealer Handling (bogus doc fee) + 289
Sub total 20336.57
Sales Tax + 601.43 (3 percent on sub total)
2nd sub total 20938
DMV fees + 62
Total 21000 cash
The reason these numbers are weird is because I was only negotiating on Out the door price, and their computer went back and pulled out the different numbers. As I said before, I think I could have gotten another couple of hundred off if the dealer didnt have the only one of the color I wanted.
Hope this helps, this car is truly excellent and I couldnt be happier.
Edmunds shows $700 cash to the dealer, so at most invoice - $700 to start ($24,350 MSRP, ~ $21,300 to pay before TTL). About 3K off sound about right?
Actually, it seems like you can (or will soon) be able to do ~2K off an '06, so I would probably have to get a better deal on the '05,. since the '06 has longer warranty, more colors to pick from, new styling, and it's a year newer!
Maybe I will monitor the '05 stock, or just tell them to call when they will take $19,995 for one.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Is this an OK price? Edmund's TMV is kind of useless since it's almost the same as MSRP.
I bought Honda Accord LX-SE 2006 today for 21,800 $ out of the door price. I stay in PA.
Wonder if this was Ok or a not so good deal,
The dealer wont come down on price but he did ad a few things like
Windows Etch
Wheel locks
Trunk tray
Splash gaurds...
But end of all I simply adore the car!
Ken
I found a Honda DX VP 4cyl private seller with only 3k miles.
I can buy for 15k.
Sound good? OR:
Dealer has an LX 4cyl with 9k miles for around 16k (I haven't a set price from dealer since I just spoke with them on phone).
Only thing is the car from dealer is white, and I don't care for white. The private seller car is blue which is more tolerable.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!! TIA!
I spoke with Carsdirect and they have a similar price and they also said they were going to have me pick up the car at Open Road Honda in NJ.
Has anybody has had any experience with buying a car at Carsdirect? Does the dealer give you a hard time when you go to pick up the car and thereafter at the service appointments?
Thanks,
PT.
In regards to pricing, Open Road Honda is one of the biggest if not the biggest sellers of Hondas in NJ. If you are going to get a good deal, it would serve you best to deal with them... Although, I had a bad experience with 1 of their salespersons. I won't name him, because it is not appropriate.
In regards to Carsdirect, I have never dealt with them, but you can try. Personally, it seems easier to deal direct with the dealership than to go through something like Carsdirect, but that is a choice you have to make.
I do have one question for you.
How much did you pay for documentation fee? I was quoted $298 in the instaquote, but when I spoke with Carsdirect they said Open Road charges $198 as doc fee.
My instaquote is valid for week, and yes I will definitely call up and confirm if they have the vehicle in stock (as you said the quote is valid only on instock vehicles).
PT.
..I'm on the other coast....transaction flawless from CarsD aspect; dealer expended much effort to sell EW......
best, ez..........
I purchased an 05 ex-l 4 cyl sedan from Nalley in Union City a few months back (http://nalleyhonda.com/). I had a pretty pleasent experience. Great price on a great car. One word of caution though....don't let finance try to bully you into an extended warranty. It took some time to shake them, but it wasn't easy. If you are looking for rock bottom price, try www.gphonda.com . They are the volume leader in and around Atlanta.
$27,000 out the door sounds pretty reasonable for that model. Just BEWARE of add-ons like extended warranties, protection packages and the like.
-Nick
Tried for nearly 3 weeks to locate a Carbon Bronze with Ivory Leather and 5-speed, but no luck. Ordering would've meant an end-of-November delivery, and I sold my Legend last Friday. Can't walk to work, and couldn't wait any longer to pull the trigger, so I bought the white one. This is my 5th consecutive white car, so obviously the color choice was not much of a problem for me.
5 days since my purchase and loving my new Accord.
We agreed on an OTD price.
I went to F and I everything was going fine.
Then my husband came in from chasing our 6 yr son around...it was 9:00 on a school night.. he took one look at the papers I just signed and went crazy.
The F and I guy had changed the numbers and I was paying almost $1,000 more then we had agreed. My husband tore up the contract and told the manager slaesperson and F and I guy that they we &&%*&*^ holes.
We finally got the car for $500 less then we agreed to earlier.
They also said that we were to get there wholesale price on a few accessories..
but they lied about that too. Watch out for these guys