paid 20,599 including delivery (but not tag title tax), which is $20 below invoice. Seems like a good deal to me. No fake out with a trade because i'm paying cash.
Where are you? I got my deal $700 under invoice which include appearance package, wheel lock, and mud guard. My friend in bay area got $19,200 which is $1400 under invoice. I just do not want to drive from CA to DC :-)
Helping my daughter buy an EX V6 Sedan without the Nav system. We live in a small city and thus a smallish Honda dealer. They've offered a no-haggle price based on Edmund's (interesting) of $23909. Of course they don't have but 3 on the lot one of which is an unacceptable color and the other two have the Navigation option.....so they have to trailer one in for $175. Now were looking at $24084. Not bad I think, maybe. As we get closer I see in the Dallas Auto Section, a dealer offering an EX V6 Sedan for $23235. While I know we've gotta compare OTD prices, we can make a 5 hour drive for $840. I also see an above post suggesting %700 under invoice is possible. That would put her car a bit under $23k and more than a $1k savings. I've seen nothing that tells me Honda is kicking in more money to the dealers, but a below invoice buy would suggest it's so. Any advice before we pull the trigger? Don't want the local guy to break out the Champagne when we leave...lol
I just purchased an 03 EXV6 sedan on Aug 16, 2003. After researching all the dealers in the Minneapolis area I decided to broaden my search. We ended up getting a great deal from Wilde Honda in Waukesha, WI. $22,951 + 89 mgmt fee + TTL. That's it. Wilde was simple and easy to work with. No one in Minneapolis was able to come close to that price. The best price I recieved in Minneapolis was $24,760 from Hopkins Honda. I was happy to drive the 5 hours to Waukesha, WI in order to save myself $1800. Corwin Honda in Fargo, ND quoted MSRP and was unwilling to budge!!!
The EX V6 is a lot of car for the money. About a year ago, I spent $26.5K for a loaded 03 Maxima GLE, and in comparison, my Max seemed a bit pricey. Although I haven't checked lately, I believe the Camry V6 XLE is also selling below invoice. There are lots of decent cars out there for very reasonable prices, which is great for consumers.
Considering 2003 EX-V6 Sedan or Coupe - anyone got the latest on best closeout pricing?
I have a couple dealers who will definitely commit to an EX-V6 Sedan or Coupe (not sure which I want) at Dealer Invoice + Dest Fee
Research shows Dealer Inv for ex-v6 sedan at $23,200 (or $23,015??) and ex-v6 coupe at $23,315 with $460 dest fee, brings sedan to $23,660 and coupe to $23,765 (before any mudguards, sunroof visor, etc. - which dealer has oddered at their cost
With dealer holdback at 2% I believe, this leaves dealer making $460-500 - anyone seeing/getting better deals on year end clearance?
I'm getting some quotes on the 2004 accord, but I have no invoice numbers to compare. Anybody know where I can get some. MSRP went up 600 buck this year, but I don't know if it translates to 600 dollar boost to the invoice. Any help appreciated.
"With dealer holdback at 2% I believe, this leaves dealer making $460-500 - anyone seeing/getting better deals on year end clearance?"
That holdback is on a sliding scale and is based on number of days on the lot. If the dealer sells a car straight off the truck he gets the full amount. For every day on the lot it is prorated based on 90 days so if he's had the car a couple of months that incredibly gigantic humongous overwhelming "profit" of 2%, which so many people seem to think is more than fair and almost to the point of theft by the dealer is cut by two-thirds.
After 90 days there is no holdback so buying at invoice is buying at cost on any particular unit. Before anyone flames out or wigs out, yes there are bonuses on achieving unit quotas and there can be some money coming in at the end of the quarter or year however it isn't any fortune.
That isn't to say anyone shouldn't get the best deal they can, that's just to say that the salesman and dealer aren't getting rich from your purchase even if you pay a few hundred over invoice. The fair amount isn't the same across the board either. Some stores add more value than others and are justified in asking and getting a little higher price based on convenience, extended service hours and other values of doing business with them instead of another store.
Holdback on a Honda is 3% of base MSRP ($651 on a MSRP of 21,700), and no car ever sits on a lot for the entire 90 days, if that were the case they'd stop making so many. Why do so many people defend these "poor" dealerships? If a dealership isn't making a decent profit from their sales then GET OUT OF THE CAR SELLING BUSINESS and find another line of work. Every one talks about invoice, and mark up for shirts and happy meals, what do people think, it ACTUALLY costs Honda $20,000 to make a car? There IS mark up in the car, about 50% if I remember correctly from my economics class in college? It costs about $10k to make a $20k car, am I the only one not living in the Matrix?
Used to live in Mpls and remember the honda dealer in S Mpls had a $500 "Consumer Value Package" which consisted of 3 oil changes that was on the window sticker of every Honda. They also tried to get people to put money down to "reserve" their honda. If you didn't buy your "reserved" honda-by by cash.
Thanks for the info about the Waukesha dealer. FYI-when I lived in Mpls a lot of people bought cars from Sunny Jim in Sioux Falls SD. He used to deliver on a transporter free of charge to S Mpls. Got my best deal from Car City in Chippewa Falls WI which is adjacent to Eau Claire. Bought in August and got all of the hold back-they really wanted to move cars to get their allotment up for the new model year. Peter is the guy to work with at Car City-an honest car sales person.
I'm not trying to defend dealerships, but the point that everyone misses is that the dealer will NOT make money if they sell EVERY car at invoice. The only reason you are able to get a car at invoice is because it averages out with the sales that are made at a higher profit.
"no car ever sits on a lot for the entire 90 days"
My local Honda dealers have hundreds of new Accords on the lot, and I'm sure plenty of them have been sitting there for awhile. Especially this time of the year. Not only do they not make as much money the longer the car sits, but will eventually start losing money. Do you think that the manufacturer gives the dealers the cars? The dealer basically pays interest on the car until it's sold.
In the perfect world, every car will be sold the day it arrives, at invoice, with no need for negotiations. The car will never come back in for warranty service. The dealer makes money, the customer gets a good price, the salesman gets paid, the bills get paid, everybody is happy. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.
Those poor dealerships, maybe someone should help write up a bill to pass in congress to help them out, they obviously need it.
If any car sits on the lot for the entire 90 days, especially a Honda, then something's wrong on the dealership end. My beef is that I bought a yearend 03 accord and 3-4 places I went to tried to sell it to me for $400-$600 OVER invoice. Maybe for an '04, but definately not an '03! I finally found a dealer that sold it to me at invoice on the 5th attempt.
How is it that people have posted that they bought accords lately for UNDER invoice? How could a dealership afford to do that when they have to pay finance people, mechanics, salespeople, electric, water, taxes? Where's the logic in that UNLESS there are things we don't know about, Naw, that stuff never happens.
I agree that the 03 should be sold at a much greater discount than the 04. Since it is not uncommon to get a new Honda close to invoice, the 03 should be invoice or less. Otherwise, the dealer is just passing off his depreciated vehicle to the buyer. Other manufactures are supporting their dealerships by offering rebates or dealer incentives.
Hey does anybody know where to get the 2004 invoice prices on the Accords. I can't find them on the internet, but the dealers have the cars on the lot.
b_baz... if you go somewhere like L.A. or some other large city you will probably be able to get one, if it is worth it. I mean, realistically, if you spent 20 hours saving yourself 400(not unrealistic 4-5 hours each dealership) it's not "worth" it to me if I get paid 25/hour at work for much less hassle... Hope you enjoy your new Accord.
I've been involved in these forums since the beginning. I enjoy answering questions and I enjoy the give and take.
I've been known to get a bit cranky sometimes but I also know when to back off.
I enjoy a spirited debate until the venom starts. This doesn't happen often. Most of the posters here are friendly people. we may not agree with each other but the "conversations" are civil.
In light of this, and due to the fact that you have called me a liar and a phony, I shall refrain from any further interchanges with you.
Some people come here to ask questions and to learn. Others, like yourself seem to have a different agenda.
I live in merced county where the tax is 7.25%. If I purchase a car in the bay area where the tax is 8-8.50% will that be the taxes I pay or will tax rate depend upon the county the car will be registered.
There are plenty of cars on lots all over the country that have been there over 90 days. That applies to every model of every brand on the market, with a few exceptions for very limited vehicles such as Corvettes or hot new ones like the Pilot.
bazinet, your economics class failed you just as your math class did. $10k on a $20k car is a 100% markup. A 50% markup would be about $13,350 starting point. There may be that much markup on some items however it isn't in autos in today's market. The markup from cost to sticker price is not that high on anything from Honda.
In addition to being wrong, it doesn't matter what the markup on production cost is. The only markup that matters is the markup from dealer cost to selling price. If Honda can make the car for $832 and the dealer has to pay Honda $18,000 on a car with a sticker of $20,360 that $832 figure means nothing.
bazinet, I'm curious what you do for a living and how you are compensated. Perhaps that would give an indication of why you consider auto dealers and salespeople to be so outrageously compensated. To keep a large well stocked dealership requires employing, AND ADEQUATELY COMPENSATING, a large number of people.
Using your example of $651 holdback and estimating an average 30 day selling cycle leaves $434 and let's add to that another $400 over invoice providing $834 to compensate the salesperson and cover receptionist, secretary, porter, and numerous other positions. At that level the salesman is going to make $100 to maybe $150 maximum. That is to cover the several hours total he spends both in front of the customer and behind the scenes getting the car ready to deliver.
The dealer has around $700 left to split between the sales manager, general manager, owner, electric company, water company, telephone company, security company, cleaning company, county tax authority, school tax authority, and numerous other hands that must receive something. Luckily, if it's a high volume store it will do maybe 4000 cars a year. WOW, THEY ARE GETTING SO VERY INCREDIBLY WEALTHY THOSE DIRTY ROTTEN THIEVES!
Don't bother flaming back that they're obviously making plenty because they aren't going out of business. They are making it primarily because of the service department however the new car sales must make some profit to go along with the service business.
Until you've worked on the other side of the desk don't generalize and don't accuse. Take a refresher in basic arithmetic and read through that economics book again. Then after working the other side come talk to us again and tell us what crooks we all are. Oh, and what is it you do and what kind of profit are you allowed to make and how often are you called a crook?
My sister visited a dealer around the San Jose Area, I think Fremont, and she was offered a silver sedan LX-auto for $18,800 and a black EX for $19,500 out the door. The price seems fishy, especially the EX , but I guess they wanted to get rid of those 2 cars.
She ended up buying a Graphite LX at Steven's creek for $19,400.
I do appreciate you participating in this and other forums (e.g. Civic) and hope you stick around.
I know this is not the correct forum, but I don't see you on the Element one to ask my question. When are the 04 Elements due in at your dealership and what changes have you heard about them?
Just got a Graphite Pearl '03 Accord LX SSRS Automatic for $18,500 from a not-too-large dealer in Missouri. Sticker was $20710 and invoice was $18687 according to Edmund's - I was happy to see that Edmund's MSRP was right on the money with what was actually on the sticker. Plus the 2.9%/60 month incentive. Nice Work Edmunds!!
Probably won't see any 2004 Elements until probably late September. Since they are new, I wouldn't expect any changes...maybe a new color or something?
Just curious - Why did your sister end up buying one at Stevens Creek if she could get one with much lower price in Fremont? Is there something wrong with the car? Or she got some BS from Fremont dealership? I got my 03 Accord LX 4 Cyl Auto at Fremont Dealership $18,880.00 out the door (I believe that's $1,200.00 below invoice price).
It's a normal thing to have a modest price increase. Probably a reflection of additional costs to Honda. Someone has to pay for pay raises, increased manufacturing expenses etc.
Thanks to all on this message board. I had been reading very good information here for the last one month or so.
I bought a EX V-6 with leather last week in Milwaukee,WI for $21,700 plus tax/title. $21,700 includes the $460.00 destination charge. So effectively this came to be $975.00 under invoice.
Are you sure you don't mean $22,700. According to Edmunds $23675 is invoice on a EXV6 sedan without the Nav system. My math tells me $21700 is $1975 under invoice.
Graphite Pearl, tinted glass & trunk tray: $21,500 + ttl, in DC Metro. After a little over a month I'm very happy with it. Kinda regret not getting the Navigation, though. My only real complaint with the car is that it doesn't downshift as often as I would like, most noticeably going up inclines at around 45-50 mph.
Just bought a LX from Lancaster Honda Ca. I am about 100 mile away from this place. Deal went over the phone with fleet sales person Lara. It took about 15 mins to make a deal. I was very impressed, I was reading a post that suggested to try them out. They deliverd it to my house and the paper work was signed in my living room. Nothing get's easier than that.If your from the so.cal area give them a try.
I am getting prices including destination charge from $20,400 to $21,200 + tax & tags. What is a good price? What kind of credit score do you need to qualify for the 2.9% financing?
We got a $24175 +TT&L "all we can do" offer from our local Honda dealer (just one in our small city) on an 03 EX V6 sedan without Navigation. Not bad, we thought for a $26,260 Honda, but decided to email 5 or 6 Honda dealers in Dallas (300 miles away) just to see. Got 5 responses 3 of which made email offers. One of the 3 was $700 under our local offer. After a few phone calls the internet manager offered the car for $23196 ($979 under my local offer) +TT&L with no "funny stuff" in the TT&L. Called our local salesman with our Dallas offer and he said "no way" they could do any better than their last offer. Even considering the $150 bucks for gas and a motel, the difference will make the first 2 payments. If I get really anal and consider how much $ I have to earn to net $829 after tax we're talking $1200. Lessons learned: don't be lazy, always shop, and do the math. Why one dealer is happy with $979 less than another is none of my business. My job is to shop a car. I figure I made about $250 an hour by doing the homework.
Very interesting-I have always got the best deals from the small town dealers-big city guys would not even come close-so it pays to look at all your options-big city or small town.
Having done considerable research before buying my car, I can't agree with dardson more w/ the importance of doing one's homework. On the other hand, one should also realize that doing homework does not guarantee a killer deal. I got my blue 2003 EX-V6 on 8/25 and paid $23900 before TTL. I called all 15 Honda dealers in the state of Washington and that's the best I could do. In fact many turned down my offer at $23900. Either that I can completely missing the boat here, or that some of the prices you see here are also govern by the supply and demand of the market. My lesson learned is that not everyone can get a 2003 EXV6 for $23000 even if they tried their hardest. All you can do is give yourself the best chance. BTW, the EX V6 is an AMAZING car. Can't be happier with the purchase. Congrats to all Accord owners here!
I don't know how the heck Honda makes this car for the money. Anything close for content and luxury feel is closer to $30k. What a bargain even at MSRP. Getting one for close to $23k seems kinda like stealing.
I wish I could have gotten a deal like everyone else did. I guess dealers really don't want to deal on the 6spd. We paid around MSRP for ours, we did get about 1000 more than our trade was worth however..........
Thanks to all who posted. It helped with knowing the scoop on what people are really paying. We just picked up our 2003 EX-V6 Leather w/o Navi for $23,150 + TTL. The guy started at $24,444, and we settled on $23,150. Consumer Reports Wholesale Price is $22,900, and that's minus dealer holdback. We also got the "added woodgrain" since it was already on the car. Based on what I've seen here, it looks like we got a good price. We opted for the 2.9 financing as well. Oh, and we got a free tank of gas, too! Good luck to all!
Comments
As we get closer I see in the Dallas Auto Section, a dealer offering an EX V6 Sedan for $23235. While I know we've gotta compare OTD prices, we can make a 5 hour drive for $840. I also see an above post suggesting %700 under invoice is possible. That would put her car a bit under $23k and more than a $1k savings.
I've seen nothing that tells me Honda is kicking in more money to the dealers, but a below invoice buy would suggest it's so. Any advice before we pull the trigger? Don't want the local guy to break out the Champagne when we leave...lol
I have a couple dealers who will definitely commit to an EX-V6 Sedan or Coupe (not sure which I want) at Dealer Invoice + Dest Fee
Research shows Dealer Inv for ex-v6 sedan at $23,200 (or $23,015??) and ex-v6 coupe at $23,315
with $460 dest fee, brings sedan to $23,660 and coupe to $23,765 (before any mudguards, sunroof visor, etc. - which dealer has oddered at their cost
With dealer holdback at 2% I believe, this leaves dealer making $460-500 - anyone seeing/getting better deals on year end clearance?
That holdback is on a sliding scale and is based on number of days on the lot. If the dealer sells a car straight off the truck he gets the full amount. For every day on the lot it is prorated based on 90 days so if he's had the car a couple of months that incredibly gigantic humongous overwhelming "profit" of 2%, which so many people seem to think is more than fair and almost to the point of theft by the dealer is cut by two-thirds.
After 90 days there is no holdback so buying at invoice is buying at cost on any particular unit. Before anyone flames out or wigs out, yes there are bonuses on achieving unit quotas and there can be some money coming in at the end of the quarter or year however it isn't any fortune.
That isn't to say anyone shouldn't get the best deal they can, that's just to say that the salesman and dealer aren't getting rich from your purchase even if you pay a few hundred over invoice. The fair amount isn't the same across the board either. Some stores add more value than others and are justified in asking and getting a little higher price based on convenience, extended service hours and other values of doing business with them instead of another store.
Thanks for the info about the Waukesha dealer. FYI-when I lived in Mpls a lot of people bought cars from Sunny Jim in Sioux Falls SD. He used to deliver on a transporter free of charge to S Mpls. Got my best deal from Car City in Chippewa Falls WI which is adjacent to Eau Claire. Bought in August and got all of the hold back-they really wanted to move cars to get their allotment up for the new model year. Peter is the guy to work with at Car City-an honest car sales person.
"no car ever sits on a lot for the entire 90 days"
My local Honda dealers have hundreds of new Accords on the lot, and I'm sure plenty of them have been sitting there for awhile. Especially this time of the year. Not only do they not make as much money the longer the car sits, but will eventually start losing money. Do you think that the manufacturer gives the dealers the cars? The dealer basically pays interest on the car until it's sold.
In the perfect world, every car will be sold the day it arrives, at invoice, with no need for negotiations. The car will never come back in for warranty service. The dealer makes money, the customer gets a good price, the salesman gets paid, the bills get paid, everybody is happy. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.
If any car sits on the lot for the entire 90 days, especially a Honda, then something's wrong on the dealership end. My beef is that I bought a yearend 03 accord and 3-4 places I went to tried to sell it to me for $400-$600 OVER invoice. Maybe for an '04, but definately not an '03! I finally found a dealer that sold it to me at invoice on the 5th attempt.
How is it that people have posted that they bought accords lately for UNDER invoice? How could a dealership afford to do that when they have to pay finance people, mechanics, salespeople, electric, water, taxes? Where's the logic in that UNLESS there are things we don't know about, Naw, that stuff never happens.
b_baz... if you go somewhere like L.A. or some other large city you will probably be able to get one, if it is worth it. I mean, realistically, if you spent 20 hours saving yourself 400(not unrealistic 4-5 hours each dealership) it's not "worth" it to me if I get paid 25/hour at work for much less hassle... Hope you enjoy your new Accord.
I've been known to get a bit cranky sometimes but I also know when to back off.
I enjoy a spirited debate until the venom starts. This doesn't happen often. Most of the posters here are friendly people. we may not agree with each other but the "conversations" are civil.
In light of this, and due to the fact that you have called me a liar and a phony, I shall refrain from any further interchanges with you.
Some people come here to ask questions and to learn. Others, like yourself seem to have a different agenda.
I won't rise to your bait.
$575 under invoice!
bazinet, your economics class failed you just as your math class did. $10k on a $20k car is a 100% markup. A 50% markup would be about $13,350 starting point. There may be that much markup on some items however it isn't in autos in today's market. The markup from cost to sticker price is not that high on anything from Honda.
In addition to being wrong, it doesn't matter what the markup on production cost is. The only markup that matters is the markup from dealer cost to selling price. If Honda can make the car for $832 and the dealer has to pay Honda $18,000 on a car with a sticker of $20,360 that $832 figure means nothing.
bazinet, I'm curious what you do for a living and how you are compensated. Perhaps that would give an indication of why you consider auto dealers and salespeople to be so outrageously compensated. To keep a large well stocked dealership requires employing, AND ADEQUATELY COMPENSATING, a large number of people.
Using your example of $651 holdback and estimating an average 30 day selling cycle leaves $434 and let's add to that another $400 over invoice providing $834 to compensate the salesperson and cover receptionist, secretary, porter, and numerous other positions. At that level the salesman is going to make $100 to maybe $150 maximum. That is to cover the several hours total he spends both in front of the customer and behind the scenes getting the car ready to deliver.
The dealer has around $700 left to split between the sales manager, general manager, owner, electric company, water company, telephone company, security company, cleaning company, county tax authority, school tax authority, and numerous other hands that must receive something. Luckily, if it's a high volume store it will do maybe 4000 cars a year. WOW, THEY ARE GETTING SO VERY INCREDIBLY WEALTHY THOSE DIRTY ROTTEN THIEVES!
Don't bother flaming back that they're obviously making plenty because they aren't going out of business. They are making it primarily because of the service department however the new car sales must make some profit to go along with the service business.
Until you've worked on the other side of the desk don't generalize and don't accuse. Take a refresher in basic arithmetic and read through that economics book again. Then after working the other side come talk to us again and tell us what crooks we all are. Oh, and what is it you do and what kind of profit are you allowed to make and how often are you called a crook?
She ended up buying a Graphite LX at Steven's creek for $19,400.
I know this is not the correct forum, but I don't see you on the Element one to ask my question. When are the 04 Elements due in at your dealership and what changes have you heard about them?
Probably won't see any 2004 Elements until probably late September. Since they are new, I wouldn't expect any changes...maybe a new color or something?
I got my 03 Accord LX 4 Cyl Auto at Fremont Dealership $18,880.00 out the door (I believe that's $1,200.00 below invoice price).
That someone is us, the people who buy them.
Same thing in any business.
I bought a EX V-6 with leather last week in Milwaukee,WI for $21,700 plus tax/title. $21,700 includes the $460.00 destination charge. So effectively this came to be $975.00 under invoice.
Thanks!!
After a little over a month I'm very happy with it. Kinda regret not getting the Navigation, though. My only real complaint with the car is that it doesn't downshift as often as I would like, most noticeably going up inclines at around 45-50 mph.
I was very impressed, I was reading a post that suggested to try them out.
They deliverd it to my house and the paper work was signed in my living room.
Nothing get's easier than that.If your from the so.cal area give them a try.
Invoice $20,619.
I am getting prices including destination charge from $20,400 to $21,200 + tax & tags. What is a good price? What kind of credit score do you need to qualify for the 2.9% financing?
Even considering the $150 bucks for gas and a motel, the difference will make the first 2 payments. If I get really anal and consider how much $ I have to earn to net $829 after tax we're talking $1200.
Lessons learned: don't be lazy, always shop, and do the math. Why one dealer is happy with $979 less than another is none of my business. My job is to shop a car. I figure I made about $250 an hour by doing the homework.
Good luck to all!