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Comments
Anyhow, did you inquire about "buyer's remorse clause?". I forgot about the details of this clause but it's worth asking about it.
I can tell u in about 1998 i think my G battery died, My statment that month had a add about getting 20% off a Infiniti battery, so i carried it to Infiniti dealer,first they gave all kinds of crap about not having the car there to do a systems check ?DUH if the car started would i need to buy a battery ? Any ways they then said they dont know anything about a discount even after showing them the coupon from InFINITI ! So being in need i took the OVERPRICED battery. After several calls to Infiniti asking why they send me coupons the dealers wont accept ?? they finally mailed me a check for the difference...
In the end they did me right, but my efforts were worth more than the refund .. o well
DL
The 1970's Japanese cars (again before the period I was referring to), were not what put "Japan, Inc." on the map. What they were famous for, at that time was cheap (used intentionally) cars that got good gas milage (for the time). The 70's gas crunch is what really got the Japanese the money to invest to do what put them on the map.
In the 1980's, Honda, Datsun/Nissan, Mazda, and Toyota made their mark with quality that, for the first time, sent a wake up call their competition about quality (and continuous improvement) and its import in competition. With that understanding, it became obvious to the Japanese that the market they could compete best in was the mass market, not super-exotics (though those provided good testing platforms).
Ok, to keep this somewhat on topic, Nissan (and Infiniti) had lost the focus on what had made them great competitors, quality and innovative design. Surprisingly, it was Renault that refocused them.
The G35 is the result of that refocusing. If, IMO, they have truly gotten refocused, you will see incremental changes that, cumulatively, over the next 5 years, will take the G35 from a really good product a truly great one.
Scott
I need to note that we seem to be undergoing a culture change in the US that rivals that of the 1960's. We have a large group of buyers, the Gen-Xer's and those that followed, who prefer trendy, quick changing things. Probably driven by the rapid change that we have seen during their lifetimes. The Baby Boomers, on the other hand, appear to be much more conservative than the later generations and seek the "continuity" you were referring to.
According to what I've read, Infiniti does not seem to be targeting the Baby Boomers with the G35 (though they won't turn them away
The one thing that I have to fault Infiniti on is what appears to be a "sea change" in the attitudes of the dealerships and the sales people. Their attitudes are changing from that of hard competitors to market leaders overnight, but without the reality to back it up. This doesn't seem to be only my opinion, if the comments of many from this board are any indication. This could have a serious backlash in the future, if they turn off too many customers. For example, I have noticed that the local dealer got about 15 G35's between 3/13 and 3/17 and still have 12 on their lot. They are getting many test drives, but cars are not exactly jumping off the lot. I think this is because of the MSRP thing. People have been used to Infiniti "dealing" and the change is irritating them.
MSRP is, IMO, fine if you are on an almost "order" basis (ala BMW most of the time and many Lexus models at this time). However, Infiniti is not. I, and I would imagine many of the other people who are considering Infiniti, expect a company that is solidly second tier (behind BMW, M-B, and Lexus, with Acura) to compete hard to get to the 1st tier. They need to keep competing and that includes price. Especially with the markups they have on these vehicles (~$3K). If they do so, the will make their bread-and-butter on service.
Anyway, while I still haven't seen the "TOTAL customer experience", I have seen the major shift in direction with the G35 sedan and coupe, and I like it.
The G35 is a great product and value, dealing with the dealers is, for me, becoming a pain. Is the experience dealing with the Infiniti dealers any worse than my experience with BMW? No. But the Infiniti brand is not that of BMW, either. My wife and I will probably buy an Infiniti, but it will be in spite of the dealership, not because of them.
Hey, if they would have had the car my wife and I wanted by now, I wouldn't feel this way, but since I'm having to wait (at least another 2 weeks), I'm having time to get irritated with the experience. In fact, it may be time to do some distance shopping (~250 mile radius) and see what I can get.
UGH!
GO G35. Rah.
Scott
petras 1--the standard front end on the G35 is 7 inches off the pavement. If I were investing in the aero package, I would be sure you were the only driver, because it is going to kiss a lot of parking lot curbs if someone is not paying attention.
I won't bore your with my comments. I have to say that the soon to arrive coupe seems to be taking over alot of conversation.
My G is running fine, congrats to all those that have recently taken delivery of theirs, perhaps we should start a new board for owners so we can talk about our cars instead of comparing them to everything that they seem to be compared to, which is kind of ridiculous.
Am not trying to create some type of exclusive club here, everyone is welcome, except those that insist on making the Infiniti G35 out to be more or less than it is ..... An Infiniti , not an Audi, not a BMW, etc etc etc ...
Anyways it is just a thought, have a good day everyone.
Plus, it seemed that most Japanese who did own cars, never kept them more than 2 or 3 years. I recall a Japanese friend told me it was mainly due to some strict government regulations, insurance and/or other fees that made used cars a lot more expensive to operate. One result was that there was almost no used car market in Japan. But, another possible effect is that, early on, it forced the Japanese manufacturers to keep their redesign cycles fairly short to better match their domestic consumer model.
Even the base with cloth could hold a good resale price.
I only drove the car on over a short section of road that was ice and snow covered at speeds up to 50 or 60 mph. Seemed solid, not squirrelly, but it was not a comprehensive test when the roads were really bad. I can't say with comlete confidence what would happen on black ice but my instincts suggest that there would be no problem.
I am counting on pretty good handling in marginal conditions but I will run all-seasons at worst and snows at best when the cold winds start to blow.
Good luck. (cool car)
BMW vs Infiniti - BMW is over priced and has significant reliability problems, especially the 3 series. Most of the problems are electrical and that can keep a car in the shop for long periods. Performance wise, I drove both cars and don't think the BMW stands up. Interior, I guess that's a matter of choice. I have graphite with wood trim and love it. Just enough wood to set it off without looking like a tree was killed to make the car. By the way, the biggest reason for BMW's recent success, in my opinion, was the booming 90's and the number of young people who "had to be seen in one". It became a status symbol just like the over-priced black leather jackets and Abercrombie clothes they had to have. They didn't car about value, or know anything about cars. It's a status symbol thing.
Infiniti is second tier? - Let's have a little understanding of what has happened. Renault made an investment in Nissan a couple years ago. One of the things Renault pushed was for Infiniti to go back to it's roots,i.e. challenge BMW and Mercedes in the luxury performance market. Planning started two years ago to redo the entire Infiniti product line. The first release of the new line was the 2002 Q45 and if you have driven it, it's fantastic. The second release was the Skyline/G35. All new platform and no Nissan parts. These cars are definately tier 1 cars.
As for price, Infiniti chose to compete on price at the MSRP level. There is only a 9% difference between invoice and MSRP. Dealer holdback is 1% and most dealers do not add anything for advertising which is a legitimate expense. So, don't look for a huge discount. This is especially so if the initial demand holds up. Infiniti has already raised its sales estimate to 40,000 G35's in the first year and if demand holds up, it will be a lot more. My dealer sells Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, Land Rover, Audi and a couple others. The G35 has already converted a number of people who had placed orders for BMW's and Mercedes.
Finally, I consider myself a very picky person when it comes to automobiles. I'm 57 and am used to driving luxury cars and trucks. I can afford most anything but won't pay a ridiculous amount for something I use for daily transportation. When I retire, I'll spoil myself but for now, I love my G35 and don't think I have ever seen anything close to the value. I got a grand of sticker and was more than happy with that.
That being said, everyone is entitled their own opinion and should do what is right for them. If you beemer guys that keep posting on this board are happy with yours, I'm glad for you. I just wonder why you feel you have to post on this board to defend your choice. I don't have to go to a beemer board to defend my choice. Maybe you're feeling a little threatened or insecure about your choice.
I haven't been able to get a firm delivery date but I hope to hear today. I will post a follow up when I do.
I changed my order to include the Aero package on Saturday. Previously I was not sold on it but I saw a G35 equipped with the Aero and really liked what I saw.
The wheels on the Aero package are better looking and I think the spoiler adds a bit of uniqueness to the look. (Beauty is totally subjective, of course.) I figure most cars will not be delivered with the Aero package and therefore it will a little bit unusual.
I also figure that the marginal cost of about $1600 is worth it since I will likely hold the car for 8 or more years (my present G20 is coming up 11 years old)
Is it a good value? Hard to say exactly but I suspect the sport suspension will be nice to have (although I am not a boy racer).
I just figured that I am spending a fair bit of dough on this car, that I will own a long time and that the Aero package adds that little extra that in the long run I will appreciate.
I would appreciate hearing about your experience dealing with Hyatt if you get into the trenches with them. So far I have not been all that effective although I have an intro to the sales manager from a mutual friend and have not yet had a meaningful discussion with the guy about what they will do for me. Hope to have that discussion today as well. Cheers.
The day I was there, there were 4 G's to be picked up, six people waiting for test drives in their 2 demos, it was 2:30 pm (not lunch hour, e.g.), and I'm guessing the arrival of the coupe will drive the busy dealership right over the edge.
Interesting: they sell the G by "levels" of equipment. Level I: cloth; Level II: Leather pkg.; Level III: premium, roof, xenon, cold weather; Level IV: add navigation; Level V: add sport pkg & Aero. If this isn't just a dealer thing, it may explain why some are having trouble finding cars equipped the way they want. I didn't ask about the possibility of a direct order.
Take care.
Joe W.
Also, I noticed in the pics of both the Coupe and Sedan that there is a difference in the seat cushions between the driver and passenger sides. In both cars, the front half of the bottom seat cushion is partitioned (3 sections) on the drivers side and is one piece on the passenger seat (at least in the pictures). Anyone have an explanation? It seems unusual for such a non-symmetrical detail to exist without a pretty good reason.
M45Guy
What *was* weird was the 'massaging' air seats on the DeVille DTS I drove. Fuuunnnnnkkkkyyyy. Probably good for maxi-trips, but odd, otherwise.
Glad to hear the ride was nice. Not surprising when going from 55 series to 65 series tires. How though did the handeling compare? Did cornering and steering feel suffer at all?
I am new here. Been reading some of the informative posts on the G35 over the last couple of weeks. I didn't find anyone here from Toronto, Canada. So I decided to join the forum and wanted to share my purchasing experience.
I placed an order in today for end of the month delivery. This is arranged through a dealer network with a consumer group, which saved me about $1450 off MSRP. The price was pre-negotiated so it took away all the hassles of haggling, especially difficult since this is such a hot car right now. Before placing the order, I called and visited a couple of dealerships and all of them wanted MSRP prices, and you still have to place an order that will get you the car by June or July. I almost gave up until I found out about this consumer group that helped me get this price. I got the Silver/black with premium and aero. The Navi is nice but too pricy, and not useful. You can get two really good desktop computers for that (the Navi costs $3400 in Canada).
I'm sure, more than anything, it's just hitting it's 'sweet spot', where the torque and HP curves cross....
Hey, if it runs, it's better than walkin'.
M45Guy
There appears to be mixed results in sales. As I mentioned before, my dealer claims that there is much action on the G35, but I have been going by there pretty often and they are not leaving at a pace commensurate with the demand reported from some other locations. If you want premium package G35's and don't mind traveling, Memphis, TN has some. They also have a number of the plain leather package vehicles, all with sunroof, and some with winter package.
Let's face it, in some markets, money is not as plentiful. Also, since the "bubble" burst and 9/11, many people have lost significant portions of their retirement and just are not as willing to spend money. Because of this and my contention about the Infiniti brand generally being considered 2nd tier (though they are doing the right things to change that), people are looking for, and expecting, deals. Time will tell.
dmmatrix - Good to see that different markets are having different demand levels. Guess I should have expected that based on some reports here. As for the number of sales where you are located, did the dealer say anything about how many of those were sold at MSRP (and were they?)? Also, how many dealers do you have in your area?
torontog35 - Congrats on ordering your G35.
Can you tell us a bit more about this buying group? Some additional information would be appreciated. One thing is for sure, information is power and can only help when engaging in price negotiations.
Scott
They say that they are only getting a couple of Aeros per month and most are pre-sold. This explains the long delivery time to July.
They have the ability to play let's-make-a-deal with other dealers in Canada provided that the car they want here can be exchanged with a car that they have and which the other dealer wants at another location but my salesperson said that their supply of Aero's is very tight.
Currently they have a red one with Aero available for May delivery.
I can't believe I think I am lucky to get the car from Vancouver. It puts the dealer in way better control of the deal than I would like. Hence very little wiggle room on the purchase price, I suppose. The law of supply and demand... I just wish my business was like that!
Anyway I will wait with eager anticipation. In the meantime I hope this snow goes away.
Ken
The extra $6,000 was more than worth it to me. The people who I hang around understand why.
BTW - you've got the wrong person about the safety speech.
People pay a premium for lots of products. There is some price involved in status, but usually the product got a respectable name due to a history. There's nothing wrong with admitting someone wanted a BMW and wanted it because it was a BMW.
1. Numbers mean nothing. What's the torque on the M3 not 260 - yet the M3 does 0 - 60 in 4.8 seconds and goes 155. Does the G35 do that with it's 260/260. Will the couple even do that. Now I know the 330i doesn't do 0-60 in 4.8. However you may say the M3 is buko bucks. Yes it is. But I'm trying to point out that with it's measly 3.2 liter engine and low torque that car moves.
2. I'll conjecture with the increase in power of the G35 over the 330i, most performance times between the two will be close to .1 or .2 secs.
3. There are no safety stats yet for the G35. So saying the car is a safe car is a moot point until the NHTSA does it's crash evaluation.
And you still have the wrong guy about the safety speech. I can't find it what's the post number?
Edit - I'm sure the G35 will be safe like other Infinity's, but it hasn't yet been formally rated. (As I state previously)
M3 is a specialty car, like Mercedez AMG. It belongs to a entirely different category. I don't see why you even bring it into this discussion. True, you never said anything negative about G35, you only strongly implied it... And, amazingly, you have not even test driven one yet.
I used to know this guy. Every time he saw a good looking woman, he would say, "I can tell she is no good in bed..." Sounds familiar?
The 3.5 VQ in the G35 OTOH reaches its max 260 HP at only 6000 RPM, yet redlines at 6600 RPM. If you were to look at the dyno of the VQ the HP would fall right off at 6000 and start to plummet like a skydiver with a broken chute. This is evidenced by the pathetic 1320 times and trap speeds as tested in the new C&D with 14.9@96 MPH. A car that reaches 0-60 in 6.2s should be hitting the 1320 closer to 14.5-14.4 IMO. The VQ was obviously massaged for a very usable, flat torque curve that was meant more for gunning it in slow traffic and moving quickly than making 0-120 sprints. I used to kill 330cis from a 5 MPH roll to 60 in my CL-S, but would get SLAUGHTERED on the highway in a 70-100 run because of gearing which is a completely different story. Basically, it's all about how broad your torque curve is, where it comes on, and where it falls off than just saying I have more torque than you.
kdshapiro,
For some one who owns a 2k2 BMW3 you sure spend alot of time in this G35 forum trying to justify why BMW a better choice (ie. safety. etc.) Why are you not on the road enjoying your new BMW? I know I would
There are appropriate forums for the type of discussion you wish to engage. It's call Sedan vs. Sedan (G35 vs BMW3)forum. Feel free to plead your case in that forum, why you feel BMW is a better choice.
Speaking from personal experience during the time when I was lurking in the G35 forum looking for news on the G35 and testimonial and advices from G35 owners on their ownership and purchase experience; I have to weed through all the all the comparison debates (My dad is better than your dad . etc...) just to find the info I need. If I wanted those head to head comparo, I would have gone to the Sedan vs Sedan discussion.
I think BMW is a great performance machine, and you made a good choice. However, please stop trying so hard to convince people on your choice. The harder you try, the more it will appear to people that you are having a phenomena known as "buyer's remorse". If you like debating, then the Sedan vs Sedan discussion is more appropriate. You can really make a difference in someone's decision in that discussion.
I know that I don't speak for everyone on this board, however when I was lurking in the G35 forum for the last month or so; I was already 90 percent leaning toward the G35. I lurk on this board to get great advice/knowledge from G35 enthusiast and owners who share their purchase and ownership experience. The thing that bother me the most was to weed through all the comparo discussion from other manufacturer owner trying to convince me why their choice is the right choice. If I wanted to hear comments from owner of that particular Mfg. I would subscribe to that particular discussion.
btw. My intention is not to flame you. I like BMW also, and my shopping list was narrow down to BMW330 and G35. I would have been happy with either one of these world class performance machine (30k to 40k range). But in the end, the G35 won my heart.
Tony,
Man its cold here, will spring ever come ?
BMW is all about keeping up with the Jones. Plain and simple.
As for the 330i, according to the C&D review numbers that have been posted here by montmax, the G35 beat the 330i auto by .8 sec and the 330i manual by .2 sec (0-60). So, while the 330i has good numbers, they are beginning to show their age. Of course, based on what BMW has done with the M3, it seems like the 3.5 liter engine in the G35 has a lot of room left for improvement...
dmmatrix - my dealer has been basically MSRP and crud for the trade and no frills. They are pushing me toward selling the trade on my own, which increasingly sours my taste for the deal. AND the car we are interested in is still 2+ weeks away. UGH!
sobright1 - I don't know of anyone who has gotten off MSRP at the dealer in Memphis. Like you, I am "frugal". I have a wife and daughter and we BOTH come from poor families. While we are doing better than our parents, money doesn't grow on trees for us. Money means a lot to us and it really goes against the grain to pay MSRP. We NEVER have. In fact, of the THREE NEW cars we have bought since moving to Memphis, NONE of them have been from local dealers (Chrysler/Dodge) because they wouldn't even MATCH what out of town dealers would.
On the other hand, we both LOVE the G35. Because of our current experience and my belief that the prices WILL drop, we will probably wait and/or, at the very least, begin shopping dealers within a 250 mile radius (we do some traveling).
As for the local service department, I do not know anything about them. Infiniti, in general, does have a good reputation for their service quality and see no reason why the Memphis dealer should be any different.
misc - in kdshapiro's defense, he is only sounding an alternative view. While I generally disagree with his view on BMW, his objective facts are frequently accurate, though, IMO, he sometimes lets his subjective opinion get overstated as objective facts. However, that is what being an enthusiast (about any product, even BMW
petras1 - you bring up a good point that some dealers seem to forget. They HAVE to service ALL Infiniti's, whether or not they were bought at the local dealership. IMO, some are running the rist of losing a sale on the car, but getting the service work (eg. oil changes).
Darn, I really WANT to love this car, but my lack of good feeling with my dealer experience (the attitude thing, don't understand what the "total ownership experience" IS) is making it more difficult than it has to be. I know that I am one of the hardest types to sell to as I'm relatively time consuming (hey, we ARE talking about a ***~$35K*** purchase here!) customer which is why I'm trying to buy from the dealer that helped me (I took 6 test drives to feel comfortable with car, about 1 hour of sales person's time, so far). But I'm ALSO a darned good cheerleader.
Definitely not what I had expected, based on comments from this board. Again, I think it is an attitude change the dealers are undergoing, based on what they might be, not what they are (Infiniti and the dealers).
If dealerships think that I will confuse my loyalty to the people who helped make my decision with my responsibility to my family, they are mistaken. There are 8 other dealerships who spent time trying to convince me they have the best product in our price range and they don't have a shot because we chose against their products (not that they were necessarily bad, but weren't the best). Some spent as much time as the Infiniti dealership did.
I hate the sour taste I'm getting the more I think of how something that could have been so good is now mediocre (expectations were set high). I'm going to have to stick to "just the facts, ma'am" and stay away from dealer experience for awhile, lest I inadvertently bias someone. After all, it has only been a mediocre experience, only slightly worse than dealing with the Chrysler dealers I have bought from... but, then again, Chrysler is not Infiniti.
Scott