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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

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Comments

  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Thanks for the mini history of the Dauphine, even though it did not sport an oil filter. My 1969 R-10 didn't have a filter either, as I recall.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    For those of you who feel the Penske is worthy of your car (that includes me). I was in KMart an hour ago, and they have now marked all Penske, Castrol and AC/Delco oil filters for clearance at 20% to 30% off marked prices. So they are for sure pushing them out the door. If you don't have a Penske Auto Center close by, this is probably the last you'll see of the Penske's.

    Looks like Fram took over another store. At least WalMart still has SuperTech.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Now, that is bad news. The K Mart variety of WIX filters was the best deal in town! You can still go to NAPA and buy WIX, but the price is double.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    On the contrary, I do know what's in those bottles. SuperTech is made by Pennzoil/Quaker State. Its composition falls somewhere between that of the QS and Penn's, both fine quality oils, and both are better than dinos. That's why I'm happy as a clam using the SuperTech.
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    some K-Marts are selling their remaining stock of Penske Air Filters for $3 to 5 each!
  • frulefrule Member Posts: 82
    Well,don't keep us in suspense.Tell us what the composition is.Is it a full PAO?What is the VI,ash content,TBN,pour point,flash point,etc.?
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I don't have that info, I'm just reposting what someone else posted in here earlier. I don't know if anyone has been able to get the data on this stuff yet.
  • frulefrule Member Posts: 82
    I can't,as hard as I try,understand what you say.You said:"On the contrary, I do know what's in those bottles. SuperTech is made by Pennzoil/Quaker State. Its composition falls somewhere between that of the QS and Penn's, both fine quality oils, and both are better than dinos".Huh?On what basis do you say that?

    Then you said "I don't have that info, I'm just reposting what someone else posted in here earlier. I don't know if anyone has been able to get the data on this stuff yet".So which is it?You know what Syntech "synthetic" oil is/contains,but you can't get data on it? Is it a full PAO or a blend?Are you sure?If so,why?

  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Unfortunately the new Bobistheoilguy page seems to be down at the moment so this is from memory..


    http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi


    there is a poster over there (Johnny) who works for Pennzoil and is very familiar with the product history. SuperTech was made by a company in Shreveport which was taken over by Quaker State which was later merged into Pz/QS. This explains why the product is different. To quote from the Quaker State history section of the web page.


    http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/about/history.asp


    "Among the important acquisitions was Specialty Oil Companies of Shreveport, Louisiana. This firm's broad product line included a wide range of industrial lubricants and a strong private label manufacturing capability. In addition, its distribution system greatly enhanced the overall Quaker State system. Specialty Environmental Services greatly enhanced Quaker State's "green" capabilities, particularly in the field of waste oil collection and recycling. These services not only assist Q Lube operations, but they also enable the newly formed Fleet, Commercial and Industrial (FCI) division to provide its customers with complete lubricant service."


    Thus the dino product (which I use) really isn't Quaker State or Pennzoil in the most narrow sense. Not sure what the background is on SuperTech synthetic. Someone else got the datasheets. I'm sorry this is (mis)posted under the filter threads, but thought the info. interesting and relevant.

  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    You're certainly free to go back through this topic and read what was posted. All I know is someone posted that the SuperTech fell somewhere between the QS and Penn syn. Someone also said, and it may have been the same person, that they were trying to get the data sheet on this oil. I don't know if they ever did.

    I've seen lab results where the QS and Penn were tested. Both were found to be superior to dino. If the SuperTech is better than the QS, and almost as good as the Penn, considering its price, that's good enough for me.
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    This is the oil filters board. All factual information regarding Motor Oil is suspended here. When it comes to lab tests and results about motor oils, hearsay evidence is not only allowed but required. Why must you constantly ask for facts? Facts about motor oils are not relevent here! On the oil filters board, motor oil opinions become facts! If a=b, and b=c, a does not equal c here! Do you understand?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    frule, I agree with your line of questioning to bottgers re: SuperTech.

    Nobody on this board has gotten QS/Pennzoil to provide info on the SuperTech synthetic, although someone has made repeated attempts. I believe the statements about SuperTech being somewhere between QS/Pennzoil in terms of the specs were in reference to the conventional oils.

    It seems logical to me that the SuperTech synthetic would bear some resemblance in performance and/or composition to QS or Pennzoil's synthetics. But there's no telling how close it is to the other 2, or what it's made of.

    bottgers, at the end of the day you have a bottle of oil, made by a respected major corporation, with the word "synthetic" on it. It may very well be an excellent oil, and it may be a good value. But neither one of us knows for sure.
  • frulefrule Member Posts: 82
    My sentiments,exactly.I just went to Bobistheoilguy's new site.It is VERY good with some experts aboard.

    Not much of the "hearsay,blanket statement,because I use it,I read it somewhere" kind of mentality there.

  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I checked my nearest Big K Mart, and found that the WIX made oil and air filters are not on sale. The display is now about 1/3 Fram. I do not see any movement afoot toward dropping the Penske and Castrol lines.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Id like to thank those on this thread who help let me make a decision to got to Wall Mart SuperTech oil filters when my current AC Delco supply runs out! It is on this thread that confirmed that both filters are made by Champion Labs, The AD Delco PF-44 filter can cost from $6.95 at the dealers to $2. at deep discount sale, if you can find them. The equivalent SuperTech filter at WalMart is 1.97 off the shelf! Not even to mention the fact that both mediums are synthetic!

    I am only waiting for when Chevron SL rated oil meets the GM 4178M standard :)
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Quote:"I checked my nearest Big K Mart, and found that the WIX made oil and air filters are not on sale."

    Hey, maybe they like us better. Ours are 20% to 30% off, and are plainly marked. "CLEARANCE".

    Including Penske, Castrol and AC/Delco. No markdown on the air filters yet.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Too bad you two don't apply that very same logic to the Chevron SL. Nothing is know about this oil either, except for what Chevron claims, and yet you two are convinced it's the best thing to come along since sliced bread.
  • frulefrule Member Posts: 82
    You are impossibly ignorant of what has transpired on these boards over the past few months.If it will make you happy,here is some data on Chevron Supreme SL(10W30) oil.It is a hydrocracked oil(termed isosyn by Chevron) made of ClassII base stock.VI=135;Kinetic Viscosity(cST)=74.8/10.8(40/100*C);Pour point=-36*F;Flash point=453*F;Cold Cranking viscosity=6400@-25*C;TBN=7.1

    Now,tell us what these numbers are for your vaunted mystery oil(Super Tech Synthetic)if you can.If not,then you are BLINDLY using that oil on the supposition that it MUST be better than brand X,because bottgers says so.

    Then give it a rest.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1368

    Well for me one out of two aint bad! I was so looking forward to saving 3-4 dollars a qt! But more importantly getting a lower (better)lubrication per mile number! Oh well! Thanks for posting the info on the Chevron SL.
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    but believe that Bottgers is now yanking our crank. You can't debate him using facts. I find peace in thinking that because the oil companies overcharge so much for synthetic, the price of conventional oil remains low. Let the synthetic users keep overpaying and subsidize us.

    Oh yeah, let's keep this discussion on an oil board , not the oil filter board.
  • frulefrule Member Posts: 82
    Check out Bob's new board.Not so much BS there.Some experts aboard,also.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    Can we keep this on topic? The oil posts need to be on the oil board. If there is a host here, can you move all of the synthetic oil posts to the synthetic oil board where they are relavant. Please everyone, if we expect to keep this filter thread, we need to keep it on topic.
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    Okay , I pulled the oil filter off my wife's 01 Sport Trac and left the large magnet on it. It was only on for 6 days this time. Haven't drained all the oil out and cut it open. May need a microscope for results. Results soon. BTW the new filter has four magnets on it between a nickel and dime in size. Expect to see more when this one comes off.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    You once alluded to K Mart and the Penske Auto outfit going on the skids, and the result was Penske pulling out of the K Mart locations. Can you elaborate on this? Maybe that's the whole story!
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    http://detnews.com/2002/business/0204/10/b01-461319.htm


    Wednesday, April 10, 2002

    Penske, Kmart end partnership

    Tentative deal would give retailer $16 million for permanent closure of 500 auto centers


    By Karen Talaski / The Detroit News


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       TROY -- Kmart Corp. and Penske Auto Centers LLC on Tuesday agreed to end their partnership, permanently closing the auto-service centers and providing Kmart with a payout that could top $16 million.

       The two sides are expected to finalize a settlement over the next 24 hours in hopes of winning approval from a federal bankruptcy court on Thursday.

       Terms of the agreement include a $10 million payment from Penske to Kmart to cover salaries, severance and future medical expenses of about 4,000 former Penske employees.

       Penske also is expected to pay another $6 million as part of a lease agreement with Kmart.

       Kmart Chairman James B. Adamson said the closures "will not have any adverse affect on our business." He added that Kmart plans to convert the centers, which Penske said were unprofitable, into additional selling space for its general merchandise stores.

       Penske also is expected to waive a $5 million payment it said Kmart owed as part of the retailer's decision to close 283 stores. About 60 Penske locations were affected by those closures, which were announced last month.

       The closings left Penske with about 554 auto centers nationwide. About 500 of those are located within Kmart stores.

       In a joint release, Kmart and Penske also agreed that a statement in a Penske court filing regarding the possible closure of an additional 700 Kmart stores was based on an internal Penske document and did not originate from Kmart or any Kmart officials. Kmart said it has no current plans to close additional stores at this time.

       Penske Auto Centers is a subsidiary of Penske Corp., a privately held company led by racing mogul Roger S. Penske. Kmart operated its own auto care shops before Penske purchased them from Kmart in 1995 for $112 million. Under the agreement, Penske owned 64 percent of the centers and Kmart held the remaining 36 percent.

       Roger Penske also is chairman and president of Detroit-based United Auto Group Inc., a publicly traded company that buys and operates franchised auto dealerships.

       Kmart and Penske lawyers met in marathon sessions Monday and Tuesday before U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Susan Pierson Sonderby and in private meetings held in Chicago, where Kmart's massive bankruptcy case is being heard.

       The retailer, which filed for Chapter 11 protection on Jan. 22, asked the court for damages because Penske's abrupt closure had broken the terms of their contract.

       The relationship between the two Troy-based chains began to unravel Friday, when Penske notified Kmart officials of its immediate plans to close up shop.

       Kmart sought an emergency restraining order to prevent Penske from closing, but it was too late. Every Penske location was shuttered by Saturday afternoon.

       Since its bankruptcy filing, Kmart has had to soothe many vendors, who threatened to withhold shipments because of losses or missed payments by the discount retailer. Kmart even offered suppliers second liens on its assets if they agreed to resume shipments within 60 days of Kmart's filing.

       Some vendors, such as Kmart's sole food supplier Fleming Cos. Inc., received special "critical vendor" status and got early payment on their pre-petition claims. Others, including Sara Lee Corp., have been told by the court to stand in line with other creditors looking for payment on their outstanding Kmart bills.

       Penske is the first vendor to publicly break ties with Kmart. Penske officials have said they saw the writing on the wall weeks ago, and they chose a complete shutdown as a way to protect the company's remaining assets.

       Penske claims its auto centers were losing as much as $3 million a month. It also claimed Kmart officials had said in a March 27 meeting that the auto centers "provided no value to (Kmart's) core business" and that Kmart felt "the best course of action was to close Penske Auto Centers."

       Customers say they are a casualty in the battle between Kmart and Penske. Longtime Penske clients like Richard Smolinski are worried about what will happen to their warranties now that Penske has closed.

       Smolinski said he has had six years' worth of repairs at the Penske service center near Wonderland Mall. Smolinski also took his daughter's car to the same center for new tires and brakes a few months ago.

       "I've had a lot of work done on two cars. Now what?" the Livonia resident said. "If they're not going to honor my warranties, what am I supposed to do?"

       However, Kmart said the agreement requires Penske to earmark funds for certain close-down expenses, including facility restoration, removal of hazardous waste and materials as well as money to support customers' warranty claims.

       In other news, Kmart on Tuesday announced it has appointed Michael T. Macik as executive vice-president of human resources. Macik will report to Adamson.

       Macik retired from Kmart in November 2000 after 31 years of service. His return is notable because Macik is the first executive to reclaim his position following the dismissal of former Kmart Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Chuck C. Conaway.


    You can reach Karen Talaski at (313) 222-2319 or at ktalaski@detnews.com.

  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Many thanks! I have a much better understanding now. I won't waste my time hoping that the Penske filters remain available at K Mart.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    K-Mart sold Motorvator filters. Rather than relying only on Fram, hopefully they'll continue to sell a house brand filter, maybe even from the same supplier.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    There is reason to assume that the Penske name will disappear, under the circumstances, but what reason is there to expect (or not expect) the WIX/Castrol filters to fade away as well?
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Quote:"but what reason is there to expect (or not expect) the WIX/Castrol filters to fade away as well?"

    I have wondered what connection exists there too. But in the local KMart, they too are being "clearance"ed. As is everything on the shelf but Fram. Kind of makes me wonder if Bill Gates owns Fram, and is using the same coercion on KMart that he uses on the computer manufactures. It has the same stench.

    With WalMart being loaded with Frams, it looks like KMart could have picked up a different line. Especially if they think they can compete with higher prices.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Just when I thought I had a long term supply of Wix filters at K Mart prices...
    I have ten Penskes to use on my two Nissan 3.3L V6's. By the time I run out, something new (hopefully) will have developed within some brand I like, somewhere.
  • sailorbeavissailorbeavis Member Posts: 14
    I've read conflicting studies on the merits of AC Delco filters. I'm going to change the oil in two family bowties and my mother swears she'll take nothing less than a Delco filter in her Chevrolet.

    It seems that, from the posts I've read on this board, that the poorly-performing Delcos are the ones NOT made by GM. If this is true, then is using a DuraGuard okay? Or should I spend the extra money for a Purolator?
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    Standard Purolator oil filters for most Chevrolets have recently been on sale for $2.50 each at Sears stores.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    If a filter says AC Delco on it, General Motors has accepted it, and arranged to have their name put on it. The point is, they will not allow their name to be used randomly on just any grade of product. I use AC Delco filters on my Geo Prizm that I buy at discount stores. They are as good as good need be, in my unhumble opinion.

    I got by Kmart today and noted that the Penske filters are still full price, but the Castrol filters are on close out, as are the AC Delcos. Of course, I bought several of each, needing none! (:oÞ
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    re-stock all popular filters? I was up in WAL-MART this evening and couldn't find the super tech version of my Hondas' filters. I would guess it's fairly popular as it is on my Accord and Civic and BJ's club carried the Fram version at 3 for $8.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    My experience has been that Walmart will replenish. They may falter a bit as they complete the switch from blue grey colored filters to black. I believe that is ongoing but admit I have not looked in a while. I've been too busy overstocking my garage with Kmart Wix-made house brand filters (Penske and Castrol). I suspect the supply of one or the other is drying up. Maybe both.
  • shemzshemz Member Posts: 34
    is using FRAM Oil filters ok? I have a 95 Altima and it has 115,000...?? I sometimes drive hard on it???
    and is Valvoline oil better than mobil...if it is, why?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Could the specific filter have any effect on the rate of oil consumption? On our 98 Trooper, sometimes I use a PureOne filter and sometimes I use an OEM Isuzu filter (made by Filtech). Just curious to know if there could be any correlation between filter and oil consumption.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I can't see any connection with oil consumption vs filter brand. Oil consumption is through rings which are splash lubricated.

    shemzFram filters are acknowledged as the worst/cheapest. No way to tell which oil is best. Manufactures do not share their secrets and testing details. If you are like most people and follow the Jiffy Lube Propaganda with 3 or 4 thousand oil change intervals, It probably doesn't matter which oil or filter you use.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I used fram filters for a lot of miles with the Mobil One synthetic oil! On the TLC I sold with app 250k miles, I switched to OEM filters at app 150k miles (I dont know yet who makes Toyota OEM filters) with no sludge and good tolerances!!
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Oil consumption can also be caused by bad valve guides. I wouldn't use a Fram filter even if I changed my oil and filter every 100 miles! They're garbage!
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I used Fram oil filters off and on over many years, as well as several other brands, and cannot attest to any known problem that I suffered doing that. At the present I am fixated on filters produced by Champion Labs and the Wix Corporation. I consider them the best buys for my particular needs.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    True
  • shemzshemz Member Posts: 34
    well, for the first time in my life i had a chance to change my own oil!
    but there was one problem though, when i put the new oil filter (Yes Fram) and tightened it by hand, started the car, i found that there is some small amount of fresh oil that drips!!?? i stopped the car, tightened the oil pans bolt and the tightened the filter, by hand, and restarted the car. And it was still dripping oil, a little less though!!?? i dont understand, i followed all the instruction on my Haynes Nissan 1995 Altima book. could it be that i have a faulty filter???or do i need to tighten it a little harder?
    Iam lossing valubale oil..(Valvoline)..help
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    or is there oil on the drain pan bolt. Very rarely do you have a defective filter, but it can happen and did to me about 30 years ago. It may be that either the filter or the drain bolt was not threaded correctly when replaced. If you have the old filter, make sure the gasket remained intact when you removed it.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Let me say that I'm anything but Fram, and currently use a Champion Labs (SuperTech) filter on all cars.

    I just wanted to say that the original MiniMopar filter survey was almost as negative on Champion Labs filters as Frams, and that the author backed way off after being threatened by Champion Labs attorneys.

    If I remember correctly there were two complaints about Champion Labs filters, 1. rust on end plates (I remember this, but haven't seen it in years) and 2. that the filtering media seemed flimsy (certainly not the case now, and TSJAY, when he posted here, pretty well debunked that one).

    On the otherhand all of the complaints about Fram including the cardboard where metal should be are still there. Some Autozones have cut aways of all model filters they sell. Looking at those filters, I wonder how anyone could buy a Fram.
  • shemzshemz Member Posts: 34
    Thank you very much, when i go home today i will check the old filer and see if the piece of rubber is still on it.

    csandste- to answer your question, an autozone employee, actually a manager who i trust, told me that fram is a good filter. I also read the writting on the fram oil filter box, and it seemed efficient and very good for anything...but i can see what you mean.
    I ususally change my oil every about 2,000 to 2,500 miles...not 3,000. I just like to take care of the motor b/c sometimes i drive hard on it, and this is the easiest way to make it live longer...hopefully.
    but I think that the old piece of rubber is intact infront of the new filter.

    I tightened the filter till it couldnt turn right or left anymore...is that ok????
  • joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    Turn the filter by hand until the gasket just contacts the housing,then turn it 3/4 to 1 full turn.
    This procedure come from the GM factory service manual.It works on all engines,even diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Also 3/4 to one turn also converts to 22 ft #'s in case you want to use a torque wrench.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    It's pretty easy to forget to LOOK at the gasket retaining groove in the end of the old filter you have just removed from the engine. If you don't consciously check that out EVERY time you change a filter, you will sometime do what I have done twice in my life: You will regretfully "double gasket" the filter you install. The flood of oil on the garage floor is a good hint that you have done this. Only the greatest luck would allow a double gasket to leak less than a gusher! >:oÞ
This discussion has been closed.